AirForce TalonSS
This report covers:
- Scoped
- The test
- Sight in
- Benjamin Bullseyes
- Refilled the tank
- JTS Dead Center domes
- Meopta scope
- Summary
This Thursday I will be celebrating Thanksgiving which is one of my holidays. There will not be a new blog on Thursday.
Today we begin testing my vintage AirForce TalonSS for accuracy. Some days you win and other days the bear eats you. But occasionally you sit down to eat with the bear and you both come away with something. This is one of those days. It’s actually two days, as you will learn.
I’m testing my vintage TalonSS with the 12-inch Lothar Walther barrel — exactly as it came from the factory. When I’m finished I will test a brand new TalonSS so we can compare them.
Scoped
I had to scope the rifle so I mounted a Meopta MeoSportR 3-15X50RD SFP scope. Fortunately I operated on 15 power so the single focal plane was not a problem (the reticle being too small to see).
The test
The test was to shoot two 10-shot groups with different pellets at 25 yards. Since I’m getting used to this rifle again after years of not shooting it, this will not be the only accuracy test I do. I need to relearn how this TalonSS likes to work.
Sight in
I filled the tank to 3000 psi and started sighting in at 12 feet. After three shots I backed up to 25 yards and refined my sight-in. And now I need to write a note to myself. When cocking and loading the SS, do NOT push the bolt forward before firing, after you close it. Leave it back in contact with the valve top hat. Pushing forward lessens the hammer strike and causes a lower-velocity shot that doesn’t group with the others.
Refining the sight-in at 25 yards took 14 more shots. And by that time I had to stop and go to the eye doctor because I had scheduled an operation to remove skin tags from my upper and lower right eyelids. That’s right — the lids of my sighting eye! After the operation I wasn’t able to focus with that eye for about six hours, so that ended my testing for the day.
Benjamin Bullseyes
The next day I resumed the test. I had sighted in with Benjamin Single Die pellets that I call Bullseyes, so I shot the first and second targets with them. The results were less than impressive. The group of ten below measures 0.801-inches between centers. It’s a wide group, but there were no called pulls. I’m saying the TalonSS with the 12-inch barrel doesn’t like the Bullseye pellet.
The TalonSS put ten Benjamin Bullseyes into 0.801-inches at 25 yards.
Refilled the tank
After the Bullseyes I refilled the rifle’s tank because I haven’t told you about the other shots I took. In all I had fired the rifle at least 35 times by this point. So I refilled. Then I tested the second pellet.
JTS Dead Center domes
Next to be tested and the only other pellet I tested this day was the 18.1-grain JTS Dead Center dome. The TalonSS put ten of them into a 0.557-inch group at 25 yards. It’s better than the first group, but still not great. Understanding why requires some explanation.
The TalonSS put ten JTS 18.1-grain domes into 0.557-inches at 25 yards.
See the lone shot out to the right? That was not a called pull. See the one out to the left? That was shot number ten and it was a called pull, but not for the usual reasons. I wasn’t shaking. I simply could not see the dot in the center of the reticle. Let’s see why.
This was my first shot with the JTS pellets. It’s a pinwheel — meaning the white dot in the center of the target that I aim at has been shot away.
Meopta scope
This Meopta scope is CLEAR! But it has an ultra-thin reticle with a tiny black dot in the center that is the reticle’s aim point. This pinwheel erased the target’s white dot that I was placing that black reticle dot over. For the next nine shots I had to guess where I was aiming. On the final shot I moved the scope over to the left side of the group so I could see the dot and the rifle fired before I was ready. Yes it was a called pull but it was intentional — sort of.
This scope has an illuminated reticle I could have easily turned on. But to do so was to add another variable to the test that was already overwhelming me. There were just too many new things happening at the same time.
In my opinion the JTS Dead Center pellets are extremely accurate and the Benjamin Bullseyes are not. But at this point that’s just a guess. The other nine shots in this group measure 0.421-inches between centers and I was guessing where to aim on eight of them!
I think I need to test the SS at least once more at 25 yards to know anything for certain. And this rifle with the 12-inch barrel hasn’t been tested with any of the latest premium pellets. I want to know for certain how good it is.
Also, in the velocity test in Part Two I had one shot in the middle of the string that was 50-75 f.p.s. slower than the rest. Did I push the bolt forward before shooting that one? I think I need to conduct another velocity test.
Summary
It’s been a long time since I shot this TalonSS with its 12-inch barrel. This is like testing an entirely new air rifle. And there are things I seem to have remembered wrong — like pushing the bolt forward. This is going to be a long series!
Tom,
What was the “golden” pellet you have for this rifle in your records? What was the smallest group this rifle made with that pellet? Yeah this old rifle is becoming a new rifle again to you.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
I think the best pellet was the Premier. But I can’t find any of the reports I wrote years ago. Either I didn’t write them for this blog or I titled them something odd.
BB
B.B.,
From your review of this Meopota scope: “SFP stands for second focal plane, which means it is like most other scopes on the market today and you don’t have to worry about the size of the reticle lines changing at different power settings.” So changing the power down to 3X isn’t going to change the apparent thickness of the retical as it would on a FFP (First Focal Plane) scope.
hth in your next session with this scope – air rifle testing.
In my opinion (first hand experience based)I think you needed to give your dominant eye to brain connection more time to recover from your eye quack messing with around with it.
shootski
shootski,
Thanks for the reminder of what SFP means. I forgot.
I do intend testing this rifle for accuracy at least once more.
BB
BB,
Unless I am mistaken, this Talon SS does not have the side screws as in the newer ones. Neither does mine. Does the side screw help prevent side to side motion of the barrel? My “new” Condor has the side screws.
I have seriously contemplated drilling and tapping for additional set screws for the barrel spacers / retainers from the top. Do you think this will help?
I can most definitely see where pushing or leaving the “bolt” forward would cause a lower velocity. As an old, fat, baldheaded geezer, I can understand forgetting to pull the bolt back, but as to pushing it back forward?
RR,
No — the added side screws do nothing. They were added because the couch engineers felt they were needed. Once added they cannot be removed.
BB
BB,
I had often wondered about those. I do find it strange that John would have listened to them. He has always struck me as the kind who is not likely to listen to anybody once his mind is set. It really is kind of amazing with the added expense of drilling and tapping the holes and then inserting the set screws.
BB
Would using a target that also had vertical and horizontal intersecting lines help overcome the guesswork problem of shooting out the bullseye? It sure helps me with my scope reticles but I don’t know what type reticle your scope has.
Deck
Deck,
I do use marks like that to help me center when the dot is gone, but I’m always up to 0.125-inches off.
BB
BB,
Flip the target paper over and draw some Xs. You can use the “arms” of the X to point to the “center”.
TRR,
I would never use an X. With an X you can be off by three degrees and not know it. A cross is best.
BB
BB,
Ah, but then you have to level the target and level the air rifle. With the X you can just level the air rifle.
Or, crank your scope knobs so poi is a little higher than poa.
Roamin,
Look at the previous target. I thought I had done that.
BB
Out of curiosity I looked at your review of that Meopta scope to see what the reticle was like. I can certainly see how a shot-out center dot on the target would affect you just like you said. Sometimes I will position the crosshairs to look like they “dissect” the target much like one would cut a round pumpkin pie. I can typically make all four pieces appear to be the same size. Also, positioning the crosshairs so that they overlay the numbers works much the same way. These two methods are especially helpful if the magnification of the scope is not powerful enough to let me clearly see that tiny dot in the center of the target.
I also noticed the engraved line on the bottom of that scope which aligns with a line on one of the scope rings to help one level the scope. That’s a great feature that I wish all scopes came with…
BB,
I was wondering if you still had that long tube you used to make the Condor quieter back in 2007?
RR,
I don’t know. I’ll look. I think I used it on the SS with the 24-inch barrel; and discovered it wasn’t necessary.
BB
BB,
If you do still have it, I sure would like to try it on my Condor.
RR,
I’ll look. But I don’t know what other reports I’m going to write — like one on the Condor.
If all you want it to see what it sounds like, use the roll from paper towels. It will work fine.
BB
BB,
I would like one to use on my Condor, I think. If it is long enough, I was thinking of putting baffles in the end. If you are thinking of using it, do not sweat it.
Hey BB,
I’m glad you mentioned the occasional weaker shot with this Talon. When I last used mine, I experienced this as well and thought maybe the hammer or striker spring was getting weak from age. I increased the power wheel setting and haven’t suffered any weak shots since. I don’t recall that I moved the bolt forward after loading a pellet that may be the cause of the weaker shot but now you have me wondering. Gives me something to do this PM.
Fred formerly of the Demokratik Peeples Republik of NJ now happily in GA
B.B.
“When cocking and loading the SS, do NOT push the bolt forward before firing, after you close it. Leave it back in contact with the valve top hat.” Is it possible to get a picture of that, or at least that part of the gun. Sorry as I’ve never seen a AF air gun in person. Just trying to get a picture in my head. If you can’t or don’t have time, it’s ok.
Doc
Doc,
It will take a couple pictures and an explanation. I’ll put it in the next installment.
BB
Doc Holiday,
I found this while trying to visualize what Tom was talking about: https://youtu.be/JL7aQXGCyfc?si=EbMZ8dXvSKgJPSRu
If you push the bolt forward this will create a small gap between it and the top hat decreasing the impact of the hammer leading to inconsistent output.
Siraniko
Readership and B.B.,
Readership: This is what happens when a shooter is good enough to shoot out the dot on a regulation 10 meter airrifle paper target! Can you?
It is also the reason you only take one shot per in competition and now mostly electronic scoring with an Auto-Feed target system that supplies a new target for every shot!
B.B.: if they keep complaining THEY should buy quality 10 meter paper targets or get you an electronic target system with a lifetime supply of target rolls from your host (Pyamyd AIR) company and have them shipped directly to you; i suspect P Air has your shipping address;
YOU all know who you are.
shootski
I can see there are a few changes in these air rifles, and it looks like some accessories have been removed. Like the 12″-barrel ‘shroud’ with inserts that slips over the barrel and into the receiver/chassis. Looks like they made it part of the receiver in the SS models?
It’s the reason I try to get every option or accessory offered with airguns when I purchase it. Like the 12″ Lothar barrel If I ever want to modify my Bounty Hunter. Not sure if the bloop tube that slides into the receiver is still available either, believe it was an aftermarket item.
A point of interest, I moved the forward grip back so it butts up against the trigger guard. It fits perfectly fine there and actually looks like it was meant to be there. I made sure the mount screw threads do not protrude into the receiver action and cause a problem.
Turns out the center of balance in my particular configuration with the quad rail accessory and thinner longer shroud ( Picture in PT-1 ) is right in the middle of it, and I can rest my elbow up against my ribs when shooting in the Standing Target position.
Are there baffles in the Talon SS barrel shroud or just an open chamber that holds the barrel spacers?
Bet those side screws were meant to accept Picatinny or Weaver rails or perhaps more Dovetails, but it was determined to be a weak point to mount it or create a problem with mounting screws interfering with the internal action If someone used longer screws. Either way the Quad rail assembly takes care of it.
Hopping to get some “Insider” information in these Blogs. At least “Nice to Know” stuff from someone who really knows someone 😉
By the way, turns out that ‘Substantial Bottle Cap” was intended to be a top hat valve protective cover for a removed bottle. Not really a bleed air accessory and they discontinued it as well.
Blue tape applied to remove play.