This report covers:
- Daisy bought Crosman
- The print industry
- The airgun industry
- Buying airguns
- Things that are hard to make
- Information
- Change can be good
It’s hardly a prophetic utterance to say change is coming. Indeed change is coming, and it is also with us. It always has been.
Daisy bought Crosman
In recent times we lamented the end of the Crosman Corporation. Oh the name is still alive but vast changes in how that organization operates are underway.
And now Daisy has purchased Crosman. Daisy, who is owned by Gamo, now owns Crosman. Oh, my. will things never stop changing?
No, they won’t And that is a good thing!
The print industry
I remember 40 years ago when printers didn’t sit on desks — they were businesses with brick and mortar locations! You want a wedding invitation? Fine, that’ll be two weeks to see the proofs and another five days after you approve them for the job to be completed.
Today you can get wedding invitations in hours instead of weeks! That’s change.
The airgun industry
Want to buy a precharged pneumatic air rifle (PCP)? That used to be a thousand dollars and a four to six week wait. Which one should you buy? Well, the Swedish Phalanx looks really good, but the London Lightning bolt does, too. Where can we read about them? How about the two magazines that exist — “The Universe of Air Guns” and “Breaking Wind”. They both have lots of airgun reviews and say wonderful things about all of them. Subscriptions only cost $35 a year for six magazines.
Today you can go to Hard Air Magazine for your reviews, but watch out. They don’t always praise the guns you like! They may tell you things you don’t want to hear. But at least they are free. Oh, and by the way, there are now PCPs selling for less than three hundred dollars. That’s change.
Buying airguns
In the past we waited for the big box discount store in our neighborhood to carry PCPs. We’re still waiting. We also want better pellets than they now carry.
Today you can shop at Pyramyd AIR for all things airgun. Yeah, but you have to trust that they will stand by their merchandise. We know the box store accepts almost anything as a return, which is good because the airguns they sell get returned a lot!
Things that are hard to make
I can remember when a Crosman M1 Carbine BB gun magazine cost a lot of money. It isn’t really a magazine, either. It’s just a box to hold extra BBs to put into the real magazine that’s inside the airgun. A guy spent the money to have a mold made to cast plastic boxes that looked like the magazine, but they were solid and didn’t hold BBs. He sold them for $35 twenty years ago, as I recall.
Today an M1 Carbine BB magazine that holds BBs can be printed by a 3D printer. And this one will actually hold BBs. But it will probably still cost $35.
Information
When I was a kid all we had were newspapers and magazines. Today we have the internet. Sure you do have to beware of what you read because they let anybody on here, but that’s true of most things that involve people. Always has been and always will be. It’s just easier to see because the internet gives them a spray can for each hand an a blank wall to paint.
Change can be good
Yes, things change and not always for the better. But don’t overlook the things that have changed for the good. I remember a time when JSB wasn’t a name that was known to the airgun world. Now JSB is competing with many other companies to make the finest pellets in the world.
Change is inevitable. It means the things we know and have grown used to may not always be around. Lament their loss if you liked them but don’t shut your eyes to the new things that are coming every day.
Change can be good. Time will tell. If Crosman continues to provide good support for their airgun parts, that will go a long ways in not being a bad change.
I hope the new management puts a priority on the quality control for their barrels.
I will take my time to decide if this is a good change.
Don
Don,
As you have noted, change can be good. We shall see.
As a fairly long-term subscriber to AIRGUN WORLD, I highly recommend this British publication. I also subscribe to our US based magazine, AIRGUN HOBBIST. I enjoy both publications in addition to our online blogs and publications. So much information to feed our eager minds. Thanks for your historic contribution to our hobby, Tom.
Used to be that all Chinese manufactured airguns were of poor quality. Now there are examples of good consistent manufacture. Somebody over there probably realized that Quality Control is needed if they want repeat customers. Time will tell if this is going to be a phase or the new normal.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
As you have noted, time will tell.
Siraniko,
The company I worked for hired a purchasing agent with a lot of experience dealing with Chinese manufacturers.
I talked to him about quality concerns and he explained that the Chinese had modern, state of the art, equipment and were capable of producing high quality products. That it was very much a case of you get what you pay for. Pay a fair price and get a good product, insist on cheap and that’s what you get.
The buyer/importer, not the manufacturer, sets the quantity standard by dictating the price. China got a bad reputation by eliminating inspection, using substandard components and materials to meet the price point the buyer set. The Chinese companies should have told the buyer to get realistic, but then money talks and they make what is wanted – cheap.
Most companies practice “binning” where a manufacturing run of product is sorted, by tolerance or performance as good, ok, poor and scrap. For example, computer chips (CPUs, GPU, memory etc.) all come from the same die and are sorted by performance. Again, you get what you pay for.
I do have a concern. As much as we like to complain about cost and quality of Chinese goods, we need them and they will be sorely missed when they are gone. The Chinese don’t need us anymore, they have expanded into other markets and are stepping away. We, in North America, do not have the manufacturing infrastructure to make the products we import from China and even if we did, the prices would WAY higher. Not wanting to be an alarmist but things are not looking good.
Anyway, I’m just saying that there’s a variety of quality in Chinese goods and that’s on them but, IMHO, it’s not all their fault.
Happy Friday!
Hank
Have no fear, Hank. We in the US have one thing that will keep us the favorite customer of all things Chinese made,, and that is the largest number of idiots with disposable income on the planet.
As long as we continue in our buy it now and pay for it later form of free enterprise we will continue to be favored by any corporation or country that wants to profit from our spending habits. Which would be all of them.
Only those countries without a suitable manufacturing base will abstain from this,, but only because they will be courting our government for the also substantial “AID” we hand our yearly.
China won’t be giving up a cash cow like the US easily,, even if they have to actually produce reasonably good quality things to ensure our dependence.
Change is, indeed, a constant. It’s funny how as much as things change our response to them never does.
Ed
“… the largest number of idiots with disposable income on the planet.”
Ed, good one, man; I needed a good laugh, and that got one from me! 😉
And the reason for the purchase is …?
Greed! It usually is…
-Y
Yogi,
Bingo!
You guys complaining about greed??? Keep in mind that it was greed that built this country into the most powerful one on earth. Of course it is also what has been eroding it (along with our values) for the past 50 or so years.
Greed produces jobs, and greed produces higher wages (call it what you want when people want more money for what they do). It is what makes for higher productivity in some vocations and lowers it in others.
It is one of the seven deadly sins,, but only because it is a part of who and what we are. It is used, misused, lied about and lauded,, but it is, in almost every case a given.
I accept that I have some in me. I want nice things and more money, both for myself and for my family. Define it any way you like, but it still smells the same.
Now this is something that doesn’t change.
edlee,
Yup greed made this country, and makes it what it presently is. It also made Harvard MBA’s that were taught that the cost of labor is only one cost input to production, that should be minimized like any of the others. The problem is that senior management doesn’t seem to be as good at cutting the salaries of CEO’s, which were about 90 times the worker salary in the 70’s, to about 231 times the worker salary today. I will believe industry comments much more, when I see a factory stay in the U.S. while ‘outsourcing’ their CEO to India.
Just sayin.
Bill
PS- I’m kind of a fan of ‘Fordonomics’ where Henry Ford started paying his workers high enough wages, with a short enough work week, where they could actually buy and use his products!
B.B.
As we learned yesterday, Daisy is lucky it survived that very stupid decision to go to steel bb’s.
Now will Gamo-Wamo finish then off for good?
Have a nice weekend everybody!
-Y
They changed the industry and are still the biggest bb long gun producer. Also they make the most accurate bb gun ever shooting those small steel bbs. And price of a steel bb is cheap. I bet a precision lead bb would cost more too.
Yes, but shooting the new steel bb’s ruins their older guns. Even E85 does not do that!
-Y
The guys who work at Crosman/Benjamin appear hopeful for the future over at HAM forum. Of course, they weren’t laid off.
OP,
I do hope that is sarcasm that I read. Unfortunately, it does not transcribe easily to the printed word.
Actually no, RR. And apparently the PCP guns assembled here will still be assembled here. Also Crosman and Benjamin pellets. So there’s some hope that maybe we won’t lose as much airgun production as we worried.
But I’m probably going to be buying AirForce in the Future.
OP,
I have three AirForce made air rifles right now. I would like to have a fourth.
Once upon a time, Diana made some of the world’s best air rifles. Now, I would not own most of them. The truth is you have to pay real close attention to where it is made. Most of what is Made in Germany does not get over here anymore or is very, very expensive.
Yes, change can be good, but greed usually destroys anything that was good. We shall see.
Ridge,
I hear you. When I want a Diana, I think/want a quality Germany gun. No a rebranded snowpeak. I wish everyone would stop the misleading and just offer snowpeak as a stand alone brand in the usa. Sometimes it seems hard to find out where something is made unless the said web site will tell. Also I, like you think designed in Germany (or wherever) plastered on the box is just misleading. Sometimes you have to look hard to find the little made in china. No I don’t like China, yes I have some made there.
Doc
I do understand and do not fault you for such. As there are so many “old gals” out there looking for a good home, I do not need to do such. Besides, I have a passion for walnut and steel.
Ditto on wood and steel! In fact I would take a M1 Carbine, M1 Garand or even a SKS or AK 47 over a AR just because I like steel.
Doc
There’s some gorgeous wood stocks for ARs.
And while none of us probably have sufficiently deep pockets, the Turnbull AR is a work of art.
Another bump for walnut and steel! And other ‘old gals’ can be attractive too.
RidgeRunner,
I didn’t know until this past weekend that the Crosman 2240 is now made in China???? Geez. Probably everyone knew it but me. I was shocked. I hate to hear that.
Doc
Doc,
I hate hearing that also. I just rid myself of probably the last of the USA assembled 2240s.
BB,
Yes, change is coming. Will it be for the better? Some of us will know.
Is Ed still with TCFKAC?
RR,
No, Ed Schultz has left the company.
BB
That is a big loss. For Crosman anyway
BB,
From TCFKAC’s point of view, that is a true disaster. The first time they ran him off, the company fell into a lackluster design doldrum. Upon his return it had begun to spiral upward. I am afraid the design department will once again sink to a new low, unless they are smart enough to build upon the backs of giants.
RR,
You’re sure a happy boy today, aren’t you? 😉
BB
BB,
I just hate to see such stupidity, all for what some may perceive as profit. Most often that is a short-term profit that lasts about as long as the latest marketeer. They did bring him back for a time. That time is probably when “someone” had the great idea to “create” the 362 and the 3622.
Like the Maximus and the Fortitude coming out of the Discovery, there will likely be a 367 and a 3677. We can only hope. I do anyway.
Sounds like 3677 will be relatively soon, but it’s not sounding good for a 367.
OP,
The truth is I could care less about a 367 or a 362 for that matter. I have a 101 I need to finish rebuilding.
I would like a 3677 because I do not have a PCP in that caliber and a “low” pressure little popper like that would be right at home with these “old gals” around here.
Perhaps it is time to get hold of that Crosman “piece” you’ve been hankering for, together with some spare parts and rebuild kits just in case this particular change for Crosman/Benjamin is not for the better. On today’s subject, FM prays none of you will experience LIFE-altering change, at least no time soon. His lady cousin over in Pacific Palisades just lost her home where she’d lived with her late husband for 60+ years. That’s a life-altering and derailing change but she’ll make it because she knows she has family and friends who won’t let her life collapse.
Change for sure. When I was a young lad I would write to companies (Daisy for one) asking for any free info they could send me. I would include a self addressed envelope. After waiting forever (checking the mail daily) I would finally get some type of catalog. I was so excited and hungry for information. Today generation takes that for granted. I don’t like change but do love the information available at my fingertips vs back in the day.
Doc
I hear ya, Doc. I don’t even remember how much time it took to drink Nestle Quik with my grandpa, to save the labels, to mail in and get a free toy freighter! But I remember my grandpa did that with me.
I hope Daisy buying Crosman doesn’t kill it. I had high hopes that when Gamo bought Daisy it would revive my old favorite airgun maker (less china, more adult airguns like they used to make and so on). So far nothing. Sad. The lineup remains small. At least Gamo didn’t ruin the excellent customer service Daisy has at the Rogers Ark headquarters. They are very helpful.
Doc
Doc
Am I wrong here? I thought that both Crosman and Daisy were owned by Gamo. So if that is correct, then Daisy bought Crosman from Gamo? But it still belongs to Gamo because Daisy does???
I’m even more confused than usual.
Ed
Yes Gamo bought Daisy some time back. So both Crosman and Daisy are owned by Gamo now.
Doc
But didn’t Gamo buy Crosman several months ago? Maybe my timeline is off. Wouldn’t surprise me.
Ed
Gamo bought Daisy in 2016 https://hardairmagazine.com/news/gamo-acquires-daisy/
Daisy bought Crosman end of April (or at least got the ball rolling)
https://hardairmagazine.com/news/hot-news-crosman-sold-to-daisy/
I believe that it would be constantly changing. However, a “who’s who” for the Airgun industry might be helpful. Maybe there is one already that I am unaware of?
Elmer,
I’ll start it!
Tom Gaylord
Ed Schultz
John McCaslin
Dennis Quakenbush
Xi Jinping – Wait a minute. He just poorly runs China. He has nothing to do with airguns.
Xi does have to do with airguns, RR. He wants to make sure his subjects can’t own any.
Maybe that is why Sleazy Joe has been so buddy, buddy with Xi?
Elmer Fudd,
This: https://airgunsporting.org/about-2/
and RidgeRunner’s list is a very good start for your answer.
shootski
In my view, the country of origin should be clearly stated on internet or print advertising for products. That way, one knows where their money is going before they click on the checkout button. PA does advertise German manufacturing, but not any other country. Should I simply assume that if it does not expressly say made in Germany, Sweden, or US that it is made in China?
RG
They once had legislation that required auto makers to have the percentage of foreign parts on the stickers of all new cars. Not sure what happened there because I haven’t seen that on the last few I’ve bought.
For quite a while in the 70s and 80s, many “American” pickup trucks were made in Canada. The only way to know was to look for the maple leaf on the door pillar where the tire inflation info was listed.
Even when things change, the stay the same.
Ed
FM, our thoughts for your cousin, and the many others still in the smoke today.
You have a point about get it if you want it, plus spares…. at least 3 items I was considering have changed to “no longer available” in the last few years… such as the Daisy 747.
But, there’s always something new coming along, and with help from this blog we usually separate the mutts from the purebreds, and have something new to research and begin negotiations with the budget master about!
BudofKV_TX – thank you for that.
FM mentioned a LIFE changing event and I have been extremely concerned the past couple of days.
My youngest daughter lives in Alhambra CA and is just about surrounded by LA wildfires. Currently working from home for the County so she can stay indoors and avoid most of the smoke.
She has a good head on her shoulders and is monitoring it closely, but she is still in harm’s way if the wind changes. If the Santa Anna winds stop, coastal winds could reverse it. This is one screwed up state.
And now I just remembered, I prepaid for an advanced order BB pistol from an Airsoft company in Alhambra. Pay Pal does that.
Hope this LA fire lesson results in some change to Californias way of running things. This is a catastrophic LIFE changing event for sure…. As I sit here waiting for my power to be shut off for high winds and a possible wildfire event.
Bob M,
I have visited Kalifornia in my illustrious past. I thought, “really?” That was over thirty years ago.
As for Kalifornia’s way of running things, it will likely require changing who is running it. What amazes me is Virginia is following in their footsteps.
RidgeRunner of the Democratik Peeples Republik of Virginia
RR,
Those in power now, both Fed and State have hit “Rock Bottom” in favorability and the worst is still to come. Wait till the rich and famous stars that lived in the burned-out areas find out they can’t replace their homes. Half had their home insurance companies CNX and run out of the state because of state regulations.
New, highly expensive, building codes and restrictions have been established here. Zoning changes, Costal Commission approval, site plans, setbacks, access for the handicapped, EPA approval and all kinds of regulations, like sprinklers ‘inside the home’ and the type of utilities you install, will most likely deny it. You would need to build low-income apartments and housing in Malibu.
To have a well now you need to have 8 acres of property.
There already are county officials requesting permit bypassing and expeditious approvals from the normally one-year approval time and costly inspections along the way because they are about to be exposed for creating all those restrictions to building in CA.
They elected those in charge and now they will have to live with it. Besides the entire municipal infrastructure is destroyed, Water, Gas and Electrical. Years to repair, because they will also need restrictive permits from the likes of the EPA. Welcome to “Hell La”
Homelessness might be the better way to go there. Everything is covered for you.
Bob M,
Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it.
They got what they asked for. Now, if we can just keep it away from here.
RidgeRunner of the Democratik Peeples Republik of Virginia
Unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats and regulators – not the airgun ones – are the real Enemies of The People. It is up to us to make sure we control the controllers.
FM,
I thought that is what those folks out in Kalifornia want?
Speaking of fires in Kalifornia.
“the city’s department seems to have emphasized the skin color and sexual preferences of firefighters rather than whether those firefighters were skilled at, you know, putting out fires.”
This little quote was taken from an MSN news article.
Keep you all in thought and prayer – all FM can do from this side of the map.
Say goodbye to the Benjamin 397S/392S multipumps, don’t see them anywhere for sale anymore.
B.B. and Readership,
Change is coming.
Thank God but not soon enough:
https://www.nraila.org/articles/20250106/biden-s-atf-runs-wild-in-his-waning-days-targets-second-amendment-activist
Is this the America we believe we live in? Are we still the place on this Earth to look upon as a shining example of Liberty, Freedom, and Equality?
Did you read about this in you mainstream media? It happened a few days before Thanksgiving 2024 to this law-abiding family…i guess it just doesn’t fit the image that the media hopes we remember the Biden’s and their henchpersons in the years to come. The The East German Stasi, the Chinese Ministry of State Security (MSS) or Hitler’s Gestapo couldn’t have done it better…
i am deeply ashamed for my country!
shootski
Shootski,
Hopefully the bloated bureaucracy will be trimmed down as part of the cost cutting measures of the incoming President. Streamlining government services though is going to take some very radical surgery.
And yes what happened in the article is something I wouldn’t have believed happening over there 20-30 years ago. The only silver lining I could draw from it is that the present government is afraid of it’s law abiding citizen’s. Because it would be worse if the the government is NOT afraid of it’s citizens.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
I must agree completely with you observation: “Streamlining government services though is going to take some very radical surgery.”
Even in the best government and military bureaucracies i personally witnessed at best ten to twenty percent of the leadership and staff worked for their pay, sixty to eighty percent showed up, did nothing, yet dutifully collected their paychecks and the remainder obstructed the efforts to accomplish the mission through ignorant or spiteful actions. I doubt things have gotten better since my retirement and suspect on the basis of my limited observations that they have gotten dramatically worse.
I do feel sorry for the folks, especially their families, that will be found to be redundant and are let go. I hope some few of them WAKE up in time to join the functional ten to twenty percent and swell those ranks to get the job done properly. I hope the rest eventually learn to provide some honest work and not try to go on the dole.
shootski