by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
This report covers:
- Your new air cane
- Oh-oh!
- But I saw this on TV
- Back to reality
- What can break on a vintage air cane?
- Dialing it back
- Does this really work?
Merry Christmas! I hope this day finds you smiling and joyful.
Today I want to discuss a topic that seldom arises, yet is at the forefront of every novice collector’s mind. Namely, “Should I (and can I) shoot my antique airgun?” Many of you will agree there is no one right answer to this question, because the answer depends on many things. Today I’d like to discuss a few of them.
Your new air cane
Let’s say you went to an airgun show and were captivated by a beautiful air cane that was still in its original case with all the accoutrements. When you saw it for the first time your heart melted and your wallet popped open with unaccustomed speed. You wanted this air cane!
A fine cased air cane by Reilly, complete with all equipment. It’s museum quality and now it’s yours!
Oh-oh!
You get the cane home and fondle it lovingly for a few days, then the evil part of your brain wakes up and goes to work. “Sure, she’s a supermodel, but can she cook?” You find yourself yearning to see what it’s like to shoot this cane.
But I saw this on TV
Collector’s shows on television are no help in this situation. The guy who just bought the 1915 Stanley Steamer for a quarter million dollars decides to get it into running condition. After a commercial break he tells you it took a lot but he finally got the old girl back on the road and boy is he having fun with it. What he never mentions is the 8 months and half-million dollars he had to invest to get the car to where it is now. And a guy like this can do that because he has all the time in the world and money to burn. He can afford to pay someone ten thousand dollars to fabricate a cylinder head for his automobile, to replace the original one that has a crack. He is connected to people around the world who collect Stanley Steamers, and they can help him solve any problem he encounters. All it takes is time and money.
Back to reality
On the other hand, you have a job to go to every day and bills to pay. Your bank balance is a finite number. Can you afford to play with the big boys? Can you risk your new $5,000 investment, just for the satisfaction of seeing it shoot a few times? As it turns out, you can!
What can break on a vintage air cane?
The first thing to do is assess your new cane and ask the question, “What can break?” And you discover that the only things at great risk are the springs and the air reservoir. A good blacksmith can make new springs, so line up one of them before you start. And as for the air reservoir, why don’t you just not use it at all? Leave it as is and make a new one to attach to the cane.
When you make that decision you realize that the cane’s firing valve has to be transferred to the new reservoir and that’s the perfect time to replace the valve seat made of animal horn with one made of Delrin. Now you don’t have to lubricate the valve with sperm whale oil every time you want to shoot!
Dialing it back
Okay, Ground Control to Major Tom! You don’t really have $5,000 to blow on a cased cane. Wouldn’t that be nice, but like the Stanley Steamer, that’s not you.
You do have $450, however, for that beater cane that’s unsigned but looks like something made by Townsend. It’s ugly and missing the rifled barrel insert and ramrod, but hey — other than the rifled barrel it’s complete and it’s in your budget! It still has a .43 caliber smoothbore barrel that will work just fine and you can make another ramrod out of a dowel rod..
You don’t have the skill or the money to build a new air reservoir, but a collector tells you he runs his canes on CO2 in their original reservoirs and it works fine. As long as they aren’t made from Damascus steel, which the cheaper ones like the one you are looking at aren’t, the original reservoir is plenty strong enough for CO2. All you need is an adaptor to attach to where the hand pump normally goes. Another guy at the show offers to make an adaptor for you for $60. That will allow you to fill the cane from a paintball tank.
Does this really work?
The reason I know all this is I have done it — not once but twice. I used to shoot my .43 caliber air cane at all the airgun shows that had ranges. The guys who taught me all this stuff are mostly gone now, but a few are still around. So if you want to shoot that vintage airgun — yes, there probably is a way. Think about what might break and why, and then deal with those issues and you can have your cake and eat it, too.
Maybe I never went home with a supermodel, but at least I was well-fed.
B.B.
Merry Christmas Sir! Air Cane? Never heard of them before today. How about an article on them ? I’m still laughing about the super model part.
Errol
Errol,
Never heard of an air cane?! You really need to get to an airgun show. It will blow your mind. Until that opportunity presents itself, you need to get one of these.
/product/blue-book-of-airguns-11th-edition?a=5115
Even if you do not get into buying, trading and selling, it is an awesome reference book that you can peruse and then search the internet for more information about particular airguns that catch your eye.
Hi R.R.
I really do wish very much that I could, but in my part of the world they are unheard of. I wish that I could visit the US sometime & attend one though! I know it would blow me & I wouldn’t leave! The Blue Book though, now that is possible and very valuable so I will try to get it.
Merry Christmas!
Errol
Errol,
Where do you live?
B.B.
B.B.
I live in Sri Lanka.
Errol
Errol,
Okay, I do not know your laws, but what I was going to advise is to start a show yourself. I’ve now done that twice and both times my show grew to be the largest one — not because of me but because it was promoted and managed well. If you would like a show there must be others who feel the same. The trick is finding them.
B.B.
Errol,
What kind of air guns do you have?
Brent
Brent
All the top brands + Chinese guns are available here. There are 3 authorized dealers, one deals exclusively with Gamo. The European makers like Diana, weirauch, BSA, Air Arrms, Hatsan, Feinwerkbau are very expensive. The Hatsans are the most competitive in terms of price,quality,accuracy & power. After some looking around I settled for a Striker & 125 both in .177 as its the only cal. permitted. I’m very happy with both. I bought them on behalf
of my friend who works overseas, so he can have some fun when he’s down on vacation, but I’m maintaining them for him. I am hoping to buy the Hatsan BT65 Elite PCP next year if all goes to plan! He has told me to keep the 125 also, great friend!!
Errol
Brent
Unfortunately, none of the US brands are sold here.
Errol
Errol,
A report on air canes? What a great idea!
Merry Christmas,
B.B.
B.B.
Thank you Sir!
Errol
Merry Christmas all.
Hi G.F.
Merry Christmas! Got any new toys for big boys from Santa?
Errol
Errol
Thanks. And no new toys for me right now. I got enough to keep me busy for now anyway. Kind of like Christmas all year. 🙂
Although I wish I would of had a AirVenturi Wingshot air shot gun this morning. Got woke up by hundreds and hundreds of black birds sqwauking. My whole yard front and back and out in the farm field was covered with them. All you seen was black birds.
I did get about 4 of them with the FWB 300 though before they figured out what was going on. They acted like I wasn’t even there. Crazy birds is all I can say.
GF1,
They make great gumbo.
Jim
Jim
Well you could make a awful lot if you wanted.
The other day I was finishing shooting. They were flying over the house to roost I guess. They were about a 15 foot thick line of them that lasted a half hour or so of steady black birds flying.
Alot, alot of them. They need to be controlled.
Sounds like you’ve been invaded by Grackles!
A.177 pellet at 600fps is usually sufficient with a well placed shot.
Break out that Marauder and you’ll probably be good out to 100yds. The ones around here tend to be very arrogant to the point of bullying. It doesn’t take much to get me shooting them. Some of my best shots have been on them!
Reb
You got it on all accounts.
They were 10 yards and out of solid black birds. They always keep moving on the ground or flying up about 3 feet and landing. Kind of like in a cycle.
I wondered if one of the Gamo air shot guns would get a couple at one time or even one at the 10 yard distances.
They don’t set still long enough for a single pellet shot.very hard to hit. Then they finally take off and move to a different location. No wonder they keep surving and multiplying.
Maybe it’s time for a punt gun?!
Reb
Had to look that one up.
Pretty crazy gun.
I may just have to build one to go along with my huge 2stage compressor.
How about 30 gallons @ 150psi through a 2.25″ ball valve?
Talking about launching shot by the pounds!
Reb
Yep I would like to see one shoot.
I came across some old firefighting nozzles a few years back but they’re probably in the landfill not .schedule40 PVC might be pushing it but fiberglass reinforcement could stiffen up a 10′ section enough to launch a cheap plastic tumbler full of whatever you wanted quite a few yards.
Did you happen to see the one Tom Knapp shouldered?
He’s quite the Showman!
Reb
I saw pictures of people holding them and shouldering them but don’t know who it was.
I read the gamo shotguns dont get it done, much too small of shot.
RDNA
Same here. I just wondered if they just may have enough to do something at the 10 yards like the black birds happened to be at that day. I bet 15 yards or more the Gamo shot gun would be useless.
Gunfun1
Ha Ha! Looks like a working holiday for you. We have em here in Sri Lanka plenty, but we call them crows. Are they the same? The crows here are very intelligent & A class rogues. They steal anything from eggs,food,chicks & gold stuff cos they’re attracted to the glitter. You down one & flocks of them home in cawing loudly in their grief. So then we get a few more. Then they get wise to it & I don’t know how but they sit well out of range & remember it for weeks!
Errol
Errol
The black birds (grackles) I’m talking about are around half the size of what we call crows. The crows we have are about 14″ tall. Maybe even taller now that I’m thinking about it.
The crows around where I’m at are usually in flocks of about 5-8 birds. They usually will circle above in the sky like hawk’s. They do land in the farm feild and in the tees at times. And they act alot more like what you describe as your crows. Very smart birds.
But the grackles are in a flock of I bet 600 birds when they decide to stop at a place to eat or whatever they do. And they are aggressive to other birds for sure. And they don’t seem to know of anything around them when they are all on the ground. A loud firearm will scare them away immediately. But with a quiet air gun like the FWB 300 you can take multiple shots before they figure it out. They will fly out farther and land. But in no time they work their way back in. After about 2 or 3 times of that then they figure it out and are gone.
And we have a black bird called a starling which is a little smaller than the grackles. They are in big flocks like the grackles too. But their more skittish. One or two shots at them with a air gun and their gone. Back at my old house we had problems with the starlings. Out here in the country their all over the place. But they don’t show up everyday. But you know it when they do.
GF1
Thanks for the great info, now I get it.
Errol
Errol
No problem.
🙂
When I was a kid we called the starlings crows, it wasn’t until I moved up into Kansas and Missouri that I saw how big a true crowd actually is. Kinda scary thought getting attacked by a Murder of them!
🙂
The Grackles are majestic in appearance with their big boattails but their mob mentality and the fact that they’ve reached epidemic proportions in the past twenty years have them very near the top of my hit list. Head and neck shots are my preference but even a Daisy880 with ten pumps and a wadcutter to the breast is a one shot kill.
Reb
We have alot of blue jays out here where I’m at now. They are aggressive birds.
You should see what happens when they want the same food as the grackles. They will go at it.
I don’t bother the blue jays. Matter of fact I think they are on the protected bird list.
But the grackles are another story.
Yep Blue jays are protected and very territorial they like to bombard unwary pecan harvesters and ya can’t shoot em so I go hand to hand and throw things back.
🙂
Reb
Yep I have seen them get baaby sqerrials and baby birds of other species.
It’s never one on one either. They usually have 3 or so buddy’s helping. Kind of surprises me that they are protected birds.
What a delight to see you on tonight and a Very Merry Christmas to you and all the fellow bloggers ! Once again I have learned something. Air cane, why not. I could see Sherlock Holmes and Watson stalking the nefarious air cane killer in 19th century London . Good read and thanks again.
Harvey
Harvey,
Merry Christmas!
You are aware that is exactly what Sherlock did? The air cane (pneumatic walking stick) was featured in one of his tales.
B.B.
Happy Holidays to all and may all of your shots hit the mark in the New Year!
BB was there when I bought my 1906 BSA that was non functioning. Now it is the queen of my “collection” and it did not take much money and effort to bring it back up to shooting trim. I shoot it more than any other airgun I have.
What you find in many of these old airguns is steel. Lots of steel. Lots of good quality steel. As BB pointed out, more often than not, the parts that need replacing most are the springs and the seals.
You can find help with your restoration projects also. You might have to dig around a bit, but they are out there. One of the best places to connect with them is at the airgun shows and airgun shoots. Last year I went to the GTA Fun Shoot in Kentucky and met a guy who not only repairs and restores air rifles, his specialty is the old BSA air rifles like mine. He had three of his at the shoot. There will be another GTA Fun Shoot this coming May. Hint, hint, hint.
If you are obsessed with airguns, you really need to attend every airgun show you can. There is always something “new” to see. Every time I went to the Roanoke show it was a different experience. It was almost like a traveling museum with new exhibits every year. What is more, you can own some of that history and have fun with it!
Merry Christmas!
RR,
BB was there? As I remember, it was BB who pushed you to get that rifle! BB wanted it for himself, but held off. So when you said you were interested, The Great Enabler changed into his costume and turned on the charm.
B.B.
BB,
And I am so glad that you did! I have enjoyed this air rifle immensely!
Now, as for you.
Get the P44.
So it does not get shot as much as it “deserves”. You will enjoy it when you do shoot it. Make a shadow box display case or a shelf stand for your office so it is always handy to run a few pellets through. My BSA hangs on the wall of the great room of my log home and has a Wilkins Pellet Pouch hanging there with it. It looks great hanging there and is always handy for when I feel like a little plinking.
Get the P44.
RR,
I probably will get one in the end. I have been rearranging my finances for the past 5 months and there are still some things to do. So far everything is working out.
Merry Christmas,
B.B.
BB,
No more excuses.
Sell the FWB 2 and a couple of others in your collection that you are hanging on to, but know you really are not going to shoot very much or at all.
Just get the P44.
😉
Ridgerunner,
I’ve heard that your 1906 BSA in 22. Cal gets as much as 650 fps. With what pellet and weight?
Brent
Mine is .177. It is shooting 8 grain RWS R10 Match right around 800 FPS. So far I think it’s favorite pellet is the RWS Superdome.
Wow, a magnum springer from 1906 🙂
Brent,
No, I am sorry! It is averaging around 600 FPS. Which really is where it should be as this is a 10 yard competition air rifle.
With Lloyd’s help I have hotrodded my Edge up to 800 FPS. I guess that is where my head got that number.
And that’s with a leather piston seal!
What kinda spring did you put in it?
They are beautiful guns and if I get a chance at one at a nice price I’d probably snatch it up regardless of caliber but I always prefer the larger .22 cal.
I’m sorry Reb, I should have typed 600 FPS.
They are indeed beautiful guns. I hope one day to pick up another at a real good price. The majority are .177, but there were a good number made in .22. There were even a few made in .25, but you had better have a very thick wallet if you want one of those. I saw one for sale a short while back for around $2500.
Speaking of attending airgun shows and shoots, this link will take you to the Gateway To Airguns forum where they are planning for the 2016 airgun shoot and show. I had an awesome time at last year’s event and it is starting to sound like this year’s will be bigger.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=100747.0
The fairgrounds will be open to us May 10 – 15. The actual Fun Shoot will be on Saturday, the 14th. Check GTA out and make your plans to attend.
RR
I just checked out the link to GTA site and will look at it some more. Kentucky is a long way from Denver! Do you or anyone else know of any airgun shows out this direction? Never been to one but would really like to see!
Air cane ? We’re they functional as a cane or just a way to conceal the Airgun? Up until about 6 mos. ago I had to use a cane to walk at all. Now, after a major improvement in my health, I don’t even keep one in the car! It would have really been a secret thrill to carry one.
Bruce
Bruce,
Unfortunately you missed the 2014 and 2015 Texas airgun shows. It would have been a long day’s drive for you. Maybe a little more.
Biggest airgun show going. See it here:
/blog/2015/09/2015-texas-airgun-show-part-2/
Unfortunately I will not be able to organize the show at the club we used for 2016 and I haven’t found a replacement location yet. That would have been the show to see.
B.B.
BB
Thanks! I guess I’m going to have to just tell my ” Personal Assistant” to bring my Sopwith Camel out of mothballs so I can fly around and visit some the hotbeds of American airgunning! I was just looking at AirForce Condor SS and saw something about a new factory for the company. It’s really great to see an American company producing such innovative and durable products and succeeding in today’s market place! Maybe someday I can get down there to see their facility. I really like the looks of what they produce and I hope to get “hands on” one day!
BBB,
My Sopwith Camel is in the shop now…..a hassle and expense I know but what are you going to do? Yawn….you got keep ’em up 😉 Condor SS huh?,….man oh man,…..the “Bug” has bit you bad,…..REAL bad!!!! 😉
Big, BIG smile,….. 🙂 Take care,….Chris
Chris
I’m not sure a Condor SS in 25 cal. would be considered backyard friendly but what a tool for out walking in the woods or along the edge of a wheatstuble field! Except for something the size of a deer, nothing would be safe to at least 50- 60 yds.! Maybe a Talon SS for the backyard. Tom got 300+ shots on one fill with it tuned down- what a boon for backyard targets ! How can one not like that capability ? Just thinking !
My Disco is in its beginning stages of development . I have found a stock( need longer length of pull) ,trigger, and a bunch of other goodies that I would like to have but one thing at a time!
Bujet ? I can’t even spell it, let alone keep within one! But, oh, what fun I’m having!!!
Bruce
BBB,
Try a ” Limbsaver” brand recoil pad first. They work great and add 1″ length of pull. I got a Med. on the LGU and a Large on the TX. About 24$ ea. Try the cheaper ones and you will end up with one of these instead. They have real good fit info. on the back of the packaging. Slip on, slip off. Take some measurements of your stock first. Wally World. Take it off of the stock if it is wood. It will “suck” up the oil in the wood on a natural finish stock. Some Ballistol, which PA sells, brings it right back. A stock finished with a clear hard coat would be just fine. You could leave it on.
” Disco”,… huh?,…….your picking up that airgun lingo pretty good there!!!!!! 😉
Chris
I’m too slow in my typing and 4 or 5 letters is better than 9 or 10 ,so I can take a little bit of license !
I’ve seen those pads and wondered if that would give me enough length. I have always had to shoot the average length stock and just get used to it, but I am 6′ 2″ and 200#. I’m thinking if I am going to customize a gun I should try to make it fit me! What a novel idea! Did you say that Walmart sells them?
BBB,
Yes. I am 6’4″ and 245# and long armed. They work. At least try them. They are good on returns if you decide it is not right for you. Custom adj. butt pads are nice but don’t add length as you usually have to remove the stock one to fit the custom one.
Catch ya later,….eat time and then snooze time,…..Chris
I really think the air canes were more of a novelty for the rich than actually being used for canes or airguns. Using it as a cane may damage it and except at very close range you would be doing really good to hit what you were shooting at. You need to keep in mind they were made during the Victorian era.
I read the whole thing and many of the comments but never found mention of a location.
Reb,
In the first posting there is a link that will take you to a map and you can get directions from it.
Found it that time!
Great! Hopefully you will be able to make it! Unless life throws me one of those nasty curve balls, I plan to be there.
Thank you for the surprise blog!
I really was not expecting that!
One of Santa’s presents to my nephews was a go-cart and we now have the oldest in triage with a broken arm.
Merry Christmas everyone!
B.B.
Thanks for this Christmas blog. The spirit of Christmas is alive and well and living in you.
Santa also gave me tickets to the new Star Wars movie in 3D so with this blog that is two gifts I wasn’t expecting.
Hope Santa was good to you this Christmas.
Merry Christmas
Pete
Mr. Gaylord:
On behalf of myself and the youth and adult members of Crew 357, we wish you a Very Merry Christmas. And may your New Year be bright.
We extent a sincere Thank You for all the wisdom and advice you infuse daily into your blog postings and in your round table comments. You are a wonderful and valuable gift to the entire shooting community. You are deeply appreciated.
Shalom & Merry Christmas
William Schooley
Rifle & Pistol Coach
Ventrue Crew 357
Chelsea, MI
I saw your post on the other blog, hilarious, a full team of ten ringers for Christmas, lol, I think every sports coach has that little Christmas wish jokingly (or not so jokingly, depending on the current line ups skill level) But my point of commenting- I was very excited to see a shooting coach posting to the blog. Not many places embrace shooting for our youngsters anymore and its the saddest thing. Shooting and the lessons of gun respect have their well known benefits that the willfully hypocritical are ignoring. I want to say thank you for your service to the kids you teach.
B.B.
Your mention of the Stanley Steamer reminded me of an old guy, about my age now, that hare a Stanley Steamer in his barn down by the creek where we kids use to shoot our air guns. I always wanted to see it and one day he he took my buddy and I in the barn to have a look. It was soo cool. It looked like New to me. Not long after I heard he sold it to a museum for $10,000. I could not believe how much he got for it at the time. You could buy a nice house for that much back then.
In hind sight he probably received far less than it was worth. It did give me a fascination with steam engines I still have today. I think steam engines and air guns must be in our genes. I even built a steam engine for my high school science project.
Merry Christmas
Don
Merry Christmas to all.. 🙂
Since my family had their Christmas last Sat., I had the first of a 3 day weekend. What did I do? Tear down the 499,… about 10 times! Let’s just say I got real good and could do a full down and back up in about 15 minutes. About a good 7~8 hrs. of trying things. Bottom line,…all my efforts were for not. Back to stock. The piston latch sear can not handle any more than what the stock spring gives it. I will give it a chrony tomorrow and add some more thoughts. It does seem to shoot faster but the groups are worse. It was doing 207 and is advertised at 240. Nothing was changed other than Moly on the trigger and piston rod sear and RWS chamber lube on the stock seal. Much, MUCH smoother. The,.. added?…. fps may be doing it bad?
We’ll see. More shooting and chrony tomorrow. What did I try?,…stay tuned,….. 😉
And, Thanks B.B. for doing a Christmas day blog. It may have been a “press and send”,…but Thanks none the less.
Chris
Well, it ain’t no .25 AR6 but Santa did drop a TrailNP .177 under my Brother’s tree with my name on it.
I’ve looked at this gun a few times and had a buddy buy one that I got to shoot.
I put about 5 Daisy pointed pellets through it today but I’ll be opening up the back door tomorrow, weather permitting, to put it to the test.
Reb,
Had to look that one up in the PA catalog. Lots of variations. What type of stock? wood, syn., camo? Scoped? At 1200fps for .177, you will have to weight up a bit to stay quiet. Anxious to hear how it does for you.
Did the family get to try out the 2240 HPAC?
I did a little test tonight and thought id share the results. I took my 3 weights of jsbs , 13.43,10.34 and, 8.44, through the marauder, at their known velocities of – 950, 1000, and 1050 approximately and respectively, into a tube of ballistics medium (much like clay, little gooier). The exact velocities were not important, only that they were being driven by the same power setting and into the same medium. The test was to compare permanent cavity/wound channel to satisfy the curiosity of which weight was better to hunt/pest with, and whether heavier pellets make good use of their higher energy. The interesting observation is that, while the 13.43 has the highest energy, it had the smallest channel as measured by filling with water and weighing the amount, giving the volume. At 27ftlbs, the 13s only created a hole with 27.1 grains of water to fill it, thats almost exactly twice the weight of the pellet, and while weight/volume of lead is unrelated to the weight/volume of water it gives us a simple ratio to compare. The pellet traveled to just under the surface of the back of the block. Penetration isnt involved here other then to say that the next pellet was within a 1/4″ from the back, and next as well, all essentially right to the back. The 10.34s gave a volume of 37.5grains water, 2.8 times the pellets weight. They have an energy of right around 23ftlbs. The lightest and least powered 8.44 gr at 20.67ftlbs made a “wound”of 5 times the pellets weight in water with 42.2grains water. The strange thing is that while they all penetrated to negligibly the same depth, the more powerful 13s used that energy in a way that did not produce a larger wound. The 10.34s deformed the most, making a wadcutter head of exactly 22 caliber size. Did I test a 22 you ask? Yes, though harder and not deforming, a cphp 14.3 grain going 750 fps and 17.9ftlbs, .. made… LESS then the 13 grain 177, 21grains of water for a permanent cavity. For those that hunt or pest, energy is a strange thing, and like 17hmr compared to a much heavier projectile, my test here shows how weight and energy numbers have some seriously counter intuitive results on target. I think from these results I will go 8.44 for rabbits, sparrows, mice/rats, 10.43 for squirrels, crows, pigeons, and 13.43 for the above 3 at 50 to 100 yards, close range groundhog, and though I didnt test them the eunjin 16.1 grain domed for groundhog, foxes, raccoon, skunk… thats about every critter under deer around here. When I get the 22 conversion (or, at4410w) and have 22 pellets going in the mid 900s we’ll see what the difference is, but im going to bet the ratios stay the same.
RDNA
Good thinking and a good test.
But out of all the pesting I have done I never seen much of a wound channel difference from heavy to light pellets. I do know the heavier pellet will penetrate deeper or punch through depending on the distance at a given velocity. The lighter pellet will usually stay in the pest of course depending on velocity and distance.
What I do know is a smaller caliber pellet verses a bigger caliber pellet; the wound channel as you call it will be bigger or smaller.
I think your balistic clay or whatever it is doesn’t represent the fur and flesh and bones of the pest. Your clay is more like shooting at mud on the edge of a creek bed. Big holes is all I can say compared to what happens on a pest.
The river mud effect was just what I thought would show more of what the energys doing, the shock that resonates out from the punch. The cphp test was definitely inconclusive for the caliber, cphp are too hard to expand at 750 in the soft clay, just had it on hand, but it does show that a hard slow 22 doesnt hold any improvement over a fast soft 177. Ive seen that a lot in test on YouTube. I love this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJX3xg1nUAY , its a classic. Its where I got the idea from.
This video test is at UK sub 12 though, so not representative of fac or US 22 performance, it does make sense for my 17 lb 22 which is not much over, and my 25 lb 177 which is double so the difference is that much more exaggerated.
RDNA
We use to shoot different rounds in to mud on the edge of the water in the creek bed. It was perfect. The bank went straight up about 15 feet so if we was on the opposite side of the creek the wall was about 20 yards away.
We use to shoot the different weight and velocity .22 rimfire rounds there to see how they reacted. Then one day my brother got the bright idea of shooting his .17 hmr at the mud on the bank. Guess what. We got a mud bath from all the mud raining down on us. Yes we was still 20 yards away.
But velocity weight and size can give so many different results. Put it this way. A sqerrial hit by the .22 round looked alot different than one hit with the lighter smaller and faster .17 hmr round. Then see what a sqerrial looks like when a 30-06 hits it from a heavier, bigger and way faster bullet than the .17 hmr round. That is if you can find it.
Vaporized!
RifledDNA22,
Very interesting test. I had not heard of that one. I’ll check out the link also. I have used duct seal which sounds like what you are talking about. My testing was to see what the Pred. Mtl. Mags in .22 would do. That was when I discovered the tips were coming off after the pellet left the barrel and before it hit the clay. Thin super glue worked great and the point was ahead of the pellet when I dug it out. (at what range were you shooting?) If I remember, penetration was only about 3/4″ at 41′ in .22 for me.
The other test I did was to see how much a pellet reduced in height after being hit with a fixed weight at a fixed distance. I used a piece of conduit, a good fitting cylindrical weight and a steel plate on the bottom. A 13g. pellet reduced in height 41% while a heavier 21g. reduced in height only 17%. Since the diameter was still .22, the less compression was due to more vertical length. Cool test, but that is all it really showed.
RDNA,
By the way, I just used a bamboo bbq skewer, my thumb nail and a mm scale to check penetration. Your method was much more scientific and showed some interesting results. It would seem that speed worked to your advantage, at least at that given range.
It just lost my whole huge reply, but to recap, its fondant, a clay like moldable cake frosting for making eyes and junk on cookies, its very clay like but picture the gooeiness of clay made of sugar and gum. Reacts like a firmer peanut butter, which shows shock cavity very well but not many chances to waste peanut butter. I was about 4″ away and pressed the stuff in a mug to reshape it before each shot. I think a cornish game hen would be a good test medium for small game and pesting testing lol. You could even fill the middle with the clay to have a section showing your effect inside, since a frozen store bird doesnt come with all the original parts. Btw, anybody taking this offhand idea and using it, I hope you have monitor lizard, cats, or something that’ll make good use of a hole punched piece of good food!
RDNA,
Thanks. I have had those “big one’s” vaporize as well. A true big time bummer when that happens!!!!
I did another quick test after seeing all the weights penetrate to such similar depths, maybe its the close range and the lighter pellet hasnt lost its velocity that it sheds quicker down range, but all three made identical holes out the back of a pine 2×6″, the 10.34s made a little bit, miniscule, larger exit mark. All three went right through and sat on the fabric behind it. Lead acts different in wood though, it tends to try and slide through, a 22lr looks like a pancake after a thick piece of wood. Either way, I was impressed they all made it clean through a 2by. Doqn range like I said will probably start giving the lighter pellet trouble but after seeing an 8.44 out of the np going 875ish pass clean through a squirrel at 30 yards, I’m inclined to think pass through is unavoidable and the first inch of permanent cavity regardless of weight is the best indicator of effectiveness.
RDNA
And that’s why weight, diameter and velocity has different effects at different distances.
RDNA,
I too am impressed that they made it all the way through a pine 2X6. The video after the one you posted showed .22 rounds for nail guns being used to fire muzzle loaded pellets in a .22 rifle ( firearm). The pellet when clean through the steel target, while a .22 short by itself did not. I would not have guessed that either. All very interesting. That lighter weight at a higher speed is quite effective at short ranges.
B.B.
I hope you’re having an awesome Christmas. My wife didn’t get me an air gun this year (as she has many other years), but she did make a $100 donation in my name to Angel Tree. That’s a cool gift, almost as cool as the gift the boy gets in the story, The Christmas Rifle. I don’t know if you’ve ever read it before, but I think it’s a story you will enjoy:
http://sportingclassicsdaily.com/issue/2015-1/article/the-christmas-rifle
Merry Christmas to you!
dave
Dave,
That is a beautiful story. I bookmarked it.
B.B.
Thats what Christmas is really about. Counting our blessings and I heard once that you count what you have left after giving to others, not to count what’s yours first, this says that much better. Thanks for sharing.
Chronied the 499,… ( post tune efforts,….still stock now )
Stock Average was 205 fps, Spread was 5.93 fps and SD was 2.00.
Now.. Average was 253 fps, Spread was 5.10 fps and SD was 1.73.
Not bad for just some RWS chamber on the seal, lube the spring and inner guide. Cocking it and shooting it, you would think that power went down from the feel of everything.
New accuracy results later after some shopping. Later,….Chris
Chris USA
Smoother is good. Interested if it helped accuracy. What distances are you going to try?
GF1,
24′ which is the usual. Lot’s of data. Last night it seemed worse. Cocking and shot cycle is butter smooth. Trigger was improved greatly as well. We’ll see. Will do later today.
By the way, I modded an TX seal from a Vortek kit on the OD. Turned out real nice. The 499 seal? is .900″ and the TX ended up at .910. Is that too much? It felt real tight going in. That is one tune I can add real easy along with the stock seal. What do you think?
Chris USA
That’s .005″ a side so it should be pretty close to same fit. Of course just a little tighter. But I think it will work. May actually help seal the tube/cylinder better that isn’t very true around.
GF1,
The 499 seal is hard white plastic. The .010″ over did not work and too much for the 499 spring. That is good to know for a more powerful gun that .010″ over would be ok. I may go .002″ over from the way it acted. Put it on a 1/2″ bolt, in a drill, locked on in a vice and used a file and sand paper to take off. 068″. Worked good and it turned out nice.
Chris USA
Back when me and Buldawg was throwing the idea around about a better seal for the FWB 300.
Turning a seal down. That was something I thought about was using a spin fixture at work on the surface grinder with a course wheel. But your drill and sandpaper idea should work great.
And the o-ring idea in the 300 is working out real good. It made me do a different tune on my Tx just last night and testing it out as we speak. And doing real good I might add.
Whent back to the 1/2″ freeplay spring and my o-rings and steel washers in front of the spring. I really, really like the shot cycle and cocking effort that way.
But I went ahead and put the front seal on the piston that came in my Vortek tune kit that accepts a o-ring. I tryed several different size o-rings I had to get the fit I wanted to the cylinder.
Chronyed it and I lost about 40 fps but the shot cycle is a dream again. And basically no thought has to go into my hold on the gun when I shoot it. And yes the groups did improve.
But I’m really liking this o-ring seal idea. Oh and the 300 chronyed dead on today to the fps when I installed the o-ring about a week or so ago. So it seems to be holding up. Going to give it some more time then take it apart and see how the o-ring is holding up. But so far so good as of today.
And one of those dead calm no wind days. So taking it while I can get it. You know what I mean.
GF1,
Hey, we all don’t have a lathe that we can just jump on any time we want. 😉 Pretty hillbilly I know,….short of hooking something up on a monster truck axle….. 😉
Very cool. I like all the “tune talk” and trial and error with results posted. Thanks. Rain just now hit here. Will be doing the 499 at 24′ any minute now. Got a 6 bull ready. If good, I’ll do the 41′ just for you! 😉
Yea, the spring is too weak to do + .010″. I did 1/8″ preload with it. The stock is compressed a little at the start and takes about 4 1/2 coils to set the “tab”. The cocking lever is too short for that type of pressure but it did work. The main down fall was the trigger mech.. It just is not built to hold back the chopped TX coils. The + .002″ may just work. Maybe tomorrow’s project.
Time to plink…..stay tuned……
Chris USA
It’s been raining here since early this morning. Sever flash flood warnings. Suppose to rain all the way into Monday.
And yes I’m shooting in the rain. Your not going to believe this. I have got my best groups in the rain. And got a 2 liter soda bottle turned upside down on a corn stalk out at a hundred yards. It makes a nice white 12″ cloud mist all around the bottle when I hit it from the rain. Pretty cool reactive target. 🙂
GF1,
Well,…the results are in,…..it does not shoot any worse,…however it now seems to be a bit hold/rest sensitive now…. My usual moderate rest and hold got 42mm and 32mm. I tried laying it rested, on a folded kitchen towel and a very light hold and got 22 and 23mm. With the barrel wrap and stock they were hitting 80% in about 16mm. Before the wrap, 22mm was avg. for all 10.
That is 0% change from stock other than a lube job. That 20% increase in fps must have done something. I can not exactly de-lube it.
I may have to give ol’ magnet on the barrel trick a try. It will be a true muzzle loader then as it will take a poke with a bbq skewer to get the bb past the magnetized portion of the barrel most likely. 😉
The trigger is so smooth now that it even “surprised” me a few times. Cocking, trigger and shooting cycle is not like butter,….it’s like melted butter!
You got to get one. The Red Ryder is like cocking and shooting a magnum springer by comparison. The 499 is like a sub 12 TX,… even smoother.
More shooting tomorrow and maybe the TX seal. May get it another 10-20 or so. I guess you were partly right,….who ever heard of a 499 requiring an artillery hold? 😉 Chris
Chris USA
Test and tune.
We have those nights at the local dragstrip. But we use to have all the testing and tuning done before we got there.
The dragstrip test and tune night was like a chrony for our cars. We just verified the results at the dragstrip.
All I know is it took more than 2 nights at the dragstrip to get the cars right.
How many nights you got in the 499 right now? How many more to go?
I just got up and checked the weather and it’s already 65℉ with a 12mph wind with rain by 6:00 that’s gonna be here through the weekend.
I’ll be popping the back door before long.
First group of 10 into about 1.25″ but about 2″ low @ 6:30 substantial elevation adjustment and resting up for round two.
Reb
Is that your new NP? You got a scope on it right?
It’s a pistol and that’s outta the box with FO sights and H&N excite econs @10yds
It has a long and fairly heavy trigger pull that’s adjustable for travel that I just studied in the manual but I’m gonna shoot another group before messing with that.
It seems to be breaking in fairly fast.
Reb
What pistol was it? I was thinking it was a rifle for some reason.
“The World’s First Nitro Piston Break Barrel Pisto”l by Benjamin. It’s pretty well broke-in after this morning and sighed in with the Fiber optic sights just gotta bury the bead in the bottom of the rear notch.
It’s gonna be a keeper!
Reb
Ok and I’m surprised RDNA hasn’t said anything. He used to talk highly about the one he had if I remember right.
Sounds like you got a good one.
It’s got some Quirky sights but they can be effective from a rest
I’ll be in the market for a bigger dot sight for this one but it’s gotta be a light one.
He was taking rabbit with his!
That’s what got me looking at them way back then and then I got to shoot one my buddy picked up which I liked but now I have one of my very own to break in right and then start massaging.
Reb
You’ll have to keep us posted as how it goes.
Sounds like your enjoying it.
Guess I forgot the pistol part in my original post.
Gunfun and Reb, definitely speak highly of that pistol! The rabbits were at 20 yards on average, but boy it never did miss. I put a 4 x rifle scope on and held it tight, the foreend gives a good place to hold it like a micro rifle. I used unconventional pellets, the black plastic 5.56 grn steel tip things, I forget at the moment the name, but I got them to try and got such great accuracy I just kept getting them. The plastic skirt and metal tip must be made in a way that is super tolerance, they are all identical far as I saw. Anyway, the gun is smooth, grip is comfortable and super knobby, BA looking and makes a joke of the mark 1 pistol I returned that was harsh and weak.
RDNA
Did the scope make it hard to cock?
No, I had it set as far back as possible to get the pistol forward as much as possible. The front bell cleared the breech by a decent amount. It was a cheap 4x so wasn’t long at all.
RDNA
Yep the clearance and how to hold the pistol.
Wondered if it was hard to hold to when you cocked it.
No, not difficult at all, it cocks just like a long, smooth trigger that’s light at first and builds up just towards the end but is smooth enough that you’ve got momentum and good hand position at the heaviest point. I would think down into the single digits in age should be fine for long plinking sessions. Little trick for the kids that cant help but make loud noises, the plastic skirts without the steel tip break the sound barrier, 😉
If I remember right I had both scope mount rings on the front half of the scope, between the adjustments and front bell and the eyepiece floating back about 2.5″ from the fiber optic rear sight.
RDNA
Ok thanks. Was thinking it would be hard to hold when cocking with a scope mounted. That’s cool there was some way designed into the gun to mount a scope.
The dovetail on mine is 4″ long so it’s more than enough for a dot sight.
I wish there was a carbine stock available for it!
Reb
Don’t know if this will post in the right place.
But by looking at the pistol it looks like the grips don’t come off. It’s like the grip is the frame of the pistol and the action drops in. Kind of like on regular spring or np rifles.
And on that thought maybe there’s a rifle stock that could be used and cut down and modified. Sounds like alot of work though.
I’ve been thinking about pulling it out so I can get to the trigger guard burr without the trigger in the way and loctiting everything back together.
It has two screws in front and two at the back
Reb
Yep I know. I looked at how it is mounted to the frame.
I’m guessing there must be a tab off the compression tube that the rear two screw into.
If that’s the case I’ll be making sure they won’t butt up like on the 2240 grips.
Got it apart now and performed some light deburring on the stock, it’s got a roller bearing on a reunion mounted in there for the cocking linkage and the pivot screw is notched with a locking screw holding it in place.
Pretty nice little gun!
It’s like a stock with a pistol grip instead of a butt.
I’ve got a broken Gamo stock I May get creative with.
I once was shopping through a bunch of walking canes at a thrift store. One didn’t look right; I bought it for $5. It was a Toledo,Spain made sword cane! Beautiful blade and great balance. All these years somebody’s grandpa walked around with it and nobody knew.
Fido3030
Fido,
Lucky you!!!! I bet that it never would have been there if they knew what it actually was. Way to go! 🙂
Took 20 clicks but it’s on target now with the proper sight picture and I’m gonna shorten trigger travel just to see how it feels.
Interestingly enough, I couldn’t get the trigger adjustment screw to turn clockwise, it’s stuck but I tightened the stock screws and shot another group.
8 went into 1″ with the outliers @2:00 & 7:00 opening up to 1.5″, it kept 9 of them on a well aligned steel spinner about a foot behind the target for some exciting feedback!
Reb,
Unless it’s all the way in already, it may have some loc-tite on it. It may take a little effort. I would try turning it out to see if you can get to move and just keep track of the amount of turn out. That way you can put it back to factory and more in if it will allow.
I kinda figured it’s already bottomed out and I’ll be looking at it when I finally pull the grip/stock but I just put 7 outta 10 through a hole that’s only 10mm across, still got a flyer here and there but it’s almost broke in already after under 100 shots.
Really liking this little gun!
It could use a nice lightweight optic but it’s coming along nicely.
Reb,
That is awesome! Unless I am mistaken, your new pistol is the only X-mas day report that we have had here. I am real happy for ya’ and glad you got a new “toy” to play with. 😉
Took a break from sighting in and broke out the spinner and it’s melting these hard pellets.
That should put it well into the 600fps range.
I’m gonna try my .177 heavyweights @9.8 to see if I can make it spin any of them next.
Reb,
Good judgement,….if it’s the Trail NP pistol in the catalog,…it says it will do 625 fps. (PC-2723-5347) Sounds to me like some ol’ “splat-ology” going on there! 😉
How is that thing to cock? The barrel looks rather short for such a high power break barrel pistol.
The one B.B. tested came in @ 25# and that’s about what it feels like, it’s an all-day plinker alright but borderline hunter.
Probably a perfect close range pester for sparrows and mice.
That’s what it says on the box:625fps but I think it really likes those econs and they’re running a little hotter.
After running some of the basics through it I can see where it got a reputation for being a little loud if someone were shooting alloys it got considerably louder than anything else so far.
I’ve left the cocking aid on the whole time and still hit my thumb on the front sight until I started cracking it open on my inner forearm before cocking.
Can’t wait to get some money to upgrade the sight picture!!
I noticed you will get two pounts of impact with the aid on and off. Mine was about an eighth inch at 10 yards up or down and gets bigger as you go.I found a little better accuracy with it off, so cocked and took it off for each shot, which is probably how it got list in the field, but the company sent me one that week so no big deal.
RDNA,
On the LGU, if the under lever is not latched just right and pops open on a shot, it will throw a shot about 2″ high every time. Same principal I guess.
The underlever of my QB-36 yes to pop open upon firing until I drilled a hole in the plastic and epoxied in a 5/16″ supermagnet
It didn’t pop open again until I lost a large piece of plastic down the transfer port. That shot also cost me a Center Point 4×32 scope and the gun awaits teardown and inspection.
Got the little 1″ to spin a couple times and recovered those pellets and the slowed it down alright but at least I got em moving.
I’ve got some RWS basic to try now that it’s broken in, I think they’re 7.4.
A belated Merry Christmas to all.
I’m a little surprised that air canes have avoided regulation as a type of concealed weapon worthy of James Bond. I’m reminded of the film Django which I’ve recently viewed in excerpt. With their derringers hidden up the sleeve and other devices, they were plenty dangerous even without modern firepower. Even swordcanes are dangerous enough. There is a film where actor David Niven plays a vampire. He comes upon a man attacking a woman in a parking lot. When the guy threatens him, Niven stabs the guy’s foot with a retractable blade from his cane and cools him out. Vampire as good guy.
B.B., with your brother-in-law’s new rifle, it sounds like he wants to shoot small groups. Odd that his Colt is giving so much trouble. You would think that Colt has plenty of mil spec expertise. Their M4s come highly recommended. Anyway, I have suggestions to help him with both guns. Try shooting offhand. He should find with lower expectations that his AR groups are not so bad. And for the Remington, he might find that recoil much reduced. My Delta Force guru says that the recoil cycle of a gun is much more natural than rested, and I have found it so. The Mauser did not recoil badly at all from standing.
Gunfun1, I wouldn’t underestimate how accurate Delta Force troopers can be. Larry Vickers says that they can get 2.5 MOA with 10 round groups which is way beyond three inches at 50 yards. They have to be accurate not only to kill people, but as hostage rescuers,not to kill people. Lee Haney, veteran of the organization, writes that they would practice on each other with live fire drills. Some would take the role of hostages while others would clear the room wh grease guns (not the most accurate weapons) firing within millimeters of the hostages. Haney also says that in an equivalent time frame, they received as much practice ammo as the Marine Corps and fired until their trigger fingers bled. I would not bet against their marksmanship skills.
As for laser doctrine, it seems to resemble that for tactical lights. Don’t give yourself away with excessive use. But at the right moment, part of its purpose is intimidation and the target is supposed to know that you have it. And with infra red lasers and night vision this is not even an issue.
Matt61
Matt61
I’m sure they do plenty of trigger time to know where there guns hit in relation to the laser or sights.
That’s the only true way to know how much leeway I guess I’ll say you have when you take a shot. If your gun will stay hitting in a 3″ kill zone when you point the lazer at 50 yards then you know how precise you have to aim. Then the same needs done at different distances. Dopeing the scope is one thing. Then if you think about it that should be done for a laser also. That’s why they keep the info wrote down on something from previous engagments.. You for sure just don’t go out and aim and hope you will hit your target. If your not shooting and documenting your probably not hitting your target.
And yep that’s why I like the pressure switch on a laser or tactical light. I got one of those UTG flash lights that is suppose to be good for 800 yards. Which its not. But it does do a good job out to 200 yards. We just use it as a hand held. But I try to just use it as a intant on off not constant on. Got it basically to see if things are running around out in the farm field at night that shouldn’t be.
And yep the infared stuff is cool too.
GF1,
Out of room above. About 12 hrs. I can’t even believe that. It can be a lot of work, brain pain, etc., but it is all worth it once you have it figured out. I think the TX seal will finish it off and then it comes down to figuring out the best way to hold and rest it. Oh yeah,…the magnet bit,…..I just have to give it a try,…at least for one 10 group! 😉 Outa’ here,…..Chris
Chris USA
What’s that saying.
Anything good takes time.
GF1,
I got to thinking about why you are getting the best accuracy while shooting in the rain. Upon the pellet leaving the barrel and entering the rain drops, the pellet now has become “lubricated” with water. This makes the pellet speed up due to less drag. Now,…since the pellet is speeding up, the water on the pellet starts to boil and vaporize creating a “steam pocket”. This pocket not only pushes the rain drops out of the way, but because of the steam pressure, the pressure that is in that pocket finds it’s way to the rear of the pellet and into the skirt pocket. This again,… makes the pellet goes faster. Eventually the rain drops start to cool the steam pocket and deceleration begins. But at this time, the pellet has already flown further and faster than not shooting in the rain. This has allowed you “reach out” further with flatter trajectory. It all makes perfect sense!
No thank you required, just glad I could help,……. 😉 a real BIG 😉 Chris
Chris,
Now we need to really think about this. A pellet is ballistic. Once it leave the muzzle it begins falling to the ground. And it also starts slowing down. Nothing can make it speed up. At the most it will slow down less fast, but since the raindrops create friction with it (they impact like small steel balls at the speed it’s going), even that can’t happen.
However, when the humidity is high air becomes denser. That could have some affect on pellet flight.
B.B.
B.B.,
I think you missed the real big wink at the end there. Kind of like the April Fool’s articles that border line on the believable. Just a little humor. Chris
Chris,
You’re right. I missed that completely. Guess it’s still early here.
B.B.
B.B,
I was hoping you would see through it and let it ride awhile. Could have been some real “interesting” comments. You know how some of us like to talk “theory”. 😉
But, in the interest of keeping this a factual site, I see where you felt the need to jump in there pretty quick. You got to give yourself some credit, you taught me better than that.
Still, GF1’s comment on getting above avg. accuracy in the rain is quite intriguing. You would think that the 100% opposite would be true.
Chris
There may be a possibility that the increase in air density with all the humidity might increase drag stabilization and improve accuracy .
Those water drops are a long way apart, and the probability of hitting one is fairly remote.
twotalon
TT
I pretty much think the same as you.
Air density and does the pellet ever really hit a rain drop.
Even if the pellet does hit a rain drop maybe the weight, shape and speed of the pellet overides the raindrop.
How many mph is a pellet moveing when it leaves the barrel? I don’t think I have ever thought about that.
GF1,
I thought you might get a real laugh at the above,…or,….maybe think I fell all the way off my rocker. 😉 Since you have asked me to try many things, I would like you try one, if you have not already. Shoot some 10 shot groups in the rain and then when it is not raining. But then again, temperature, humidity and just plain being off or on one day to the next would not make it a very valid test. Just a gut feel and lots of shooting in all conditions I guess would allow you to arrive at that conclusion.
At any rate, that mist cloud off the 2 liter at 100yds. would have been really cool to see.
Chris USA
Like you say it’s pretty much from shooting alot. Have shot better than average groups when its been snowing too.
And you can get the same effect in your back yard as I did at a hundred yards on the bottle.
Take a old metal coat hanger and cut you a piece out of it about 4″ or so longer than a bottle. Push the coat hanger in the ground about 4″. Then take a16 oz. plastic soda bottle and take the cap off and place the bottle upside down on the coat hanger.
Wait for the rain then shoot out your back door at it and see what happens. You’ll see how the pellet hitting sends a shock when it hits the bottle.
Let me know if you try. And try at different distances and see what happens too. You can use the bottle multiple times to. You don’t have to put a new one out there every shot.
Just felt that front coming in and had to close the door , guess I’ll take a nap.
🙂
Matt61
Hi, Cane gun firearms are subject to the same laws that regulate machine guns and silencers. Under the law they are classified as “any other weapons” which also includes pen-guns, palm guns, etc. the transfer tax is only $5 and state regulations are sometimes easier.
Under fed law air canes are ok–Dennis Quackenbush once built a full auto version.sword canes may have a problem under state/city regs. I got rid of mine…for a tidy profit.
Fido3030
Yep, we had a northern blow in on top of all the gulf moisture that kept us warm last night. Overnight low in the 30’s with scattered thunderstorms in the winter weather advisory.
Hi
Hope everyone is having a great Christmas
I found a Hatsan 87 while we were out returning things today. I haven’t found much written about it. Can anyone tell me about it?
Thanks
Brett
The Farrier,
Did you get one? Did you check it out on the PA site? There is only 2 reviews, so it must be fairly new. The one review did have pellet choices and chrony results along with accuracy. I like the adj. comb. I wish more would do that. The sights are nice as well, but not all like the fiber optics. For the $, I would say not bad. I like the gas piston as well, but have never tried one. You can leave them cocked and they are supposed to be smoother than a springer.
Thanks for the reply
I didn’t buy it.
I did find the comments on the Pyramid Air site.
I was hoping to learn a little more before bringing it home.
I would like to get something in the $200 ish range for pests around the farm and just having fun plinking.
This coming summer I plan to get a pcp to handle the larger pests around the barns.
I looked it up to see what it was and I like the look of it the adjustable comb riser is always nice.
I forgot to look at the reviews though goin’ back for that now.
Have you read the reviews yourself?
It sounds a lot like my Regal in performance but in a little smaller and lighter package, I’d be willing to bet the quattro trigger is a whole lot better starting point than the Crosman one my Benjamin came with.
If I were in the market for a magnum .177 I’d have to consider it.
Thanks
I did read them. Sounds like they liked the accuracy.
I chatted with the service on Pyramid. He said it’s supposed to calk under 30lbs and the trigger should adjust down under 3lb pull.
I haven’t had air guns in forever. What gun would you buy for the first one in the rack?
We do have a couple Gammo G2 recon’s for my daughters that are easy to shoot
Brett
BB,
Hang on, we are going a little off subject here. I am needing to mount a scope on a RWS Diana 46E and I am considering the Diana Bullseye ZR mount. I knew you had talked about it some, so I dug back through the blog, but either I missed it or you did not finish up a report on it. All I found was where you talked a little about it when you mounted the Aeon scope on the BSA Supersport SE (part 4).
Some of the questions I have about the mount is how far apart are the rings, how wide are the rings, can the rings be adjusted some on the rods, etc.
If you still have the mounts, perhaps you could take a sproinger you have of known superb accuracy and happens to have a scope on it now, try it out some and then put the ZR mount on with the same scope and see how it does.
And BB, get the P44.
RR,
As I recall the ZR is a one piece mount and I seldom use them because of their mounting inflexibility. I don’t know where that mount is, but I will look for it.
B.B.
BB,
It is a one piece. If you run across it and do not feel like fooling with it, you can send it to me and I will put it through it’s paces on top of my Diana 46E. I will even try to put together a decent blog about it.
And BB, get the P44.
I have the ZR 1″ mount on a RWS 350. The distance between the rings is 3.150″ and the ring width is .786″. You can’t adjust the spacing of the rings.
Scott,
Thanks for the dimensions! As is they definitely rule out my UTG Compact SWAT scopes.
As for being able to adjust them, I am not so sure about that. The pictures BB showed of the mounts showed the lower ring sections were held in place with set screws. You may be able to loosen them and move the rings in a little although that will increase the tension on the spring. It may also be possible to put longer rods on there. Hmmm.
Now the main question is, do you like these mounts? Do you feel that you have a good solid return to zero with each shot? Do you believe you are saving wear and tear on your scope?
Looking over the mount again I cannot see any external screws that hold the rings to the rods. I would have to remove the scope to check further. Personally I think it is over priced for what it is. I have a Hawke with an etched reticle on the rifle, probably no need for the mount. Have not done any serious target shooting with it to see if the mount is repeatable but just plinking seems to do a good job holding zero. Am thinking about selling the rifle, have gotten hooked on 12ftlb and lower rifles ie. my Walther LGU and tuned LGV.
Went back and read BB’s blog on the mount, it does have set screws that hold the rings on. My bad.
A belated Merry Chisrmas to all.
Chris mentioned above that there were very few reports as to the goodies that we received for Christmas.
I thought I would tell hat I received. There was big box under the tree that when I opened it was full of goodies from PA, mostly some of the new Air Venturi targets. Due to family commitments and weather, it was yesterday afternoon before I had a chance to try them out. One of the targets was the “auto rotating wonder wheel” (PY-A-5771). That spinning wheel is FUN. In addition, I received the rat on the run and the rat on the stick targets.
Tom, you may want to consider a blog on these new Air Venturi targets.
Jim
Jim,
That is cool. I have yet to try steel targets. I am more of the make it my self type. I am putting together a PA order and looking for a magnum springer that is not hold sensitive and real tack driver for under a 100$. Still looking,….. 😉 So at any rate, my Christmas gift to myself I suppose counts a little bit, albeit a bit belated.
My first spinner was a large washer with a 1″ hole through the center hanging on a string sometimes I’d shoot through the center and have another strategically placed target behind.
Sounds like something you might enjoy.
Chris,
If you have a safe place to shoot, reactive targets are a lot of fun. There are a number of different examples of DIY targets on you tube. Soda cans make good reactive targets. Lay the can on its side and try to hit just the edge of the end. With a properly placed hot, it will spin and fly.
Jim
I used to crush cans with my 392 by placing shots around the bottom ring, 3 shots would get a good start but walking 20yds for every hit was a pain. I actually had a few bounce off the shed behind and almost all the way back to me.
I want to see what the Stampede is all about!
I love reactive targets!
Hope Mrs. Qwerty is enjoying helping you through that sausage of JSB’s. It sounds like she’s very supportive and maybe even a willing participant.
You’re one of the Lucky ones!
Reb,
I didn’t get the Stampede but it looks like fun. The washer on the string sounds like fun. I have on my to do list to try to make a target similar to the biathlon target. I am going to use washers with inside diameters of 1/2 inch to 1.5 inches. I’ll drill holes in a board and screw the washer to face of the board. I picked up a set of spoons at a garage sale for a dollar that I’ll use for the knock down part.
Jim
Mrs. Qwerty is very supportive but doesn’t shoot on a regular basis. Even with a scope she has trouble focusing. My daughter is both an excellent shot and a regular shooter. Between my daughter and myself, the sausage is about gone. It will soon be time to place another order wit PA for pellets.
I’m very blessed with Mrs. Qwerty.
Jim
Jim,
You sound like a bit of a “Do It Yourself’er”,… yourself. 😉 That is always fun and brings a lot of well earned satisfaction with it. I got a 12 oz. can on a driveway marker pole at 50 yds. I hit low and right one time and spun that sucker 3′ up and 5′ back. I was like,……”huhhhh????”. I will have to give the reactives some more attention next summer. If I get on you tube and see a bunch of stuff, I will spend all winter whipping up a 200# monster with motors and gears and pulleys and widgets and wagets. Oh yea,…the bobbly things too.
Note to self,….keep it simple,…..ooooh,….it’s going to be hard! 😉
Some cheap spoons on a barbed wire fence work well too!
Try some ping pong balls setting ontop of golf t’s placed out in the yard.
Old potatoes are fun too. Plus the critters will eat the pieces that are left.
Cut the top off a 2 liter soda bottle and blow up a ballon and place it in the bottom of the bottle. Sprinkle some flour over the balloon and shoot to hit the balloon. It makes a nice reactive target.
Oh and I forgot old pellet tins make good targets too.
Take and poke a hole in the tin and the lid. You get two targets out of one tin. Then tie a piece of string to each and hang the from tree limbs. There a nice little challenge at 50 yards and out.
I leave the lids hanging on my canned goods so I can stand it up and get two targets in one, the trail never penetrated with wadcutters yesterday but but just about everything else I have will.
I want to find an old cow bell. I’ve seen the 22 rim fire version but I don’t want to pay that much.
Hmmm… I wonder if I can talk the local Salvation Army out of one of their old bells with a broken handle for a suitable donation.
Jim
GF1,
Well, I went back in on the 499 and added the modified TX seal. Shoots better but chronys at 219 avg.. Stock and lube 255. Stock 205.
Also did the magnet bit. Maybe 2-3mm. better. Took it off and no after effect.
I here by dub myself the “499 Master Tuner”……. 😉
The only 2 that have not been down yet is the LGU and the Red Ryder. Of the 2, the Red Ryder definitely needs the most help.
Chris USA
But you put the weight in the nose of the LGU. So technically you were inside it. Just on the opposite side of the trigger end. 🙂
And at least I ain’t the only one anymore that messes with everything I get.
😉
GF1,
Well,…..I can not argue with that!
You told a story about something that you tore down on Christmas day as a kid. I did the same with a 20″ bike at the age of 8. You may remember that story from about a year ago. I guess, if it’s in your blood to figure what makes thinks “tick”, I guess it stays with you all through life.
For those willing to do it,…99% of the time you can make it better. Chris
Chris USA
Agree with you there.
Most of the time things now days are biult to just get by for a bit of time. With the exception of some things of course.
I just never followed the rules of leave well enough alone or no don’t do that it will never work.
Got to be different. Just don’t see it any other way.
Any of you guys who are thinking of an inexpensive 10 meter pistol, here ya go.
http://www.airguns.net/classifieds/show_ad.php?adNum=112245&adSort=&StartingAd=0&NumberOfPages=7
Santa brought me a Daisy 880 today. It works fine with H&N .177 lead BB’s through the magazine as long as I eyeball the BB going in the chamber to make sure it doesn’t hang up between the probe and the loading trough. Shoots about as well with BB’s as with Hobbys (only pellet I’ve tried). They won’t roll out the barrel either.
It’s fun to try things on the less expensive airguns! If I totally mess up it doesn’t cost a lot to replace them. The more extensive guns wind up owning me. I’m almost afraid to touch them. Especially with a screwdriver.
Fido3030
Fido3030
The worst thing a person could do is dig in to something if they don’t know how it works.
Find diagrams for the gun your going to work on before you even think about taking it apart. Then try to picture how all the pieces work together.
If you can’t see it happen on paper it could help when you actually see how it works when you have it in hand. But sometimes that’s to late.
Always best to get some understanding before you dig in. Especially with a screwdriver in hand. Just say’n. Seen people tear stuff up real quick throughout time. Then it’s a mess and usually ends up costing some money to get back right.
Back in the spirit of the name of this blog I just rotated air in all my working pump guns and diagnosed a leaking exhaust valve on one of my 766’s and a bad pump cup on a metal receiver Powermaster66.
Maybe I can get that Crosman order together this week.
GunFun1
Hi, I don’t plan on taking the 880 apart, I meant trying lead BB’s. I’ll take apart a Red Ryder type or mod a 2240 or 1377 but that’s about it.
I’ve been trying to find an accurate inexpensive plinker preferably for BB’s and I’ve found several: the Daisy 499, 840, 74 and now the 880. Also the Crosman 1077 and the ones mentioned above.
I’m having fun trying simple things like bushing an inner barrel, trying different BB’s, different levels of lubrication, etc.. A lot of experimenting for a lot less than the cost of a high end rifle. I’ve gotten lots of ideas from the great people on this blog. Cordially,
Fido3030
The clamshell receivers can take a lotta patience and sometimes an extra hand but just be sure to have a good diagram or two if not a couple videos to refer to in case you get stuck.
Fido3030,
You sound like you are doing pretty good already on tearing stuff down. The higher end stuff can be easier than the other stuff. Often a whole lot less parts and whole lot better made. I assume you saw the 499 adventure this weekend? If you get one, there is a few tips I can offer. Anything odd or hard on a Red Ryder? That will be my next project.
CHRIS USA
Hi, I’ve been following your work on the 499 with great interest. I have a 499. Did you say accuracy fell off a little when you upped the velocity? I ordered a BB gage and am going to try sorting and try different sizes. But mine shoots better than I can hold with the peep sight now so I’m not sure I could tell the difference.
I don’t think you will have any trouble with the Red Ryder. Is it a current model? If so I don’t think you can remove the inner barrel without destroying the outside one. Maybe try a mainspring from a model 25 but harder to reassemble. Please post your results!
Fiso3030
Fido3030,
I will be presenting the results of a stock 499 with sorted BBs in the Wednesday blog.
B.B.
BB
Looking forward to it!
Fido3030
B.B.
I look forward to that very much. I do not know if you are doing chrony results but it would be interesting to see yours vs my stock 499 and the stock RWS lubed piston “tune” that boosted it 50 fps.. Stock 205, stock/lube 255,….advertised at 240.
And, while you do not mess with your good shooters, the moly in the trigger and on the cocking lever and the cocking shoe made a 100%, if not 200% difference in trigger and cocking. This thing is darn right scary smooth on trigger. You could not pull it left or right if you tried.
Fido3030,
Yes, the Red Ryder is new. Yes, the 499 (seemed) to drop off a bit with the 50 boost. All that was is the piston pulled and RWS lube, after a clean. Moly in the trigger where you can get it made a HUGE difference. Plus moly on the cocking lever and cocking shoe. The safety is a pain. Easy in and out but there is a little spring that will give you fits. You been inside yours yet? As before, if not, I got a few tips.
If you followed the “saga”, you know the other details. The bb gauge might make all the difference. I can hold mine pretty steady, in fact real steady. Also, you may remember, I took the smallest O insert and put a VERY small washer in that. Perfect at 24′ with 9/16″ ring binder sticker. Just a wee bit of paper showing around the ring. You know when you are “on”. Let me know. Chris
CHRIS USA
Hi, I don’t plan on working on my 499 right now. I’m more interested in its accuracy and unfortunately I don’t shoot it well enough now to tell whether I’m improving things or not. I’ll keep working at it. I’m looking forward to the gage.
B.B. said he’s writing a Blog on the 499 Wednesday. Maybe you could post what you’ve learned there so people will be able to find it even years from now. (With B.B.’s permission, of course.)
This Blog is such an incredible resource–an airgun library!
Fido3030
Fodo3030,
The article looks like more of a test of the bb gauge and the 499 is just the “tool” for the job, so I am not sure what I could add to that. I did ask what his 499 was doing on the chrony though. I was surprised mine was a low as it was in stock compared the advertised. Almost 20% is pretty huge. If someone wants to know the insides of one or work on it, that I can help with.
I shoot mine at 24′ rested. My steady will vary from day to day and there is those days that I know that I am real steady and good. Still, there will 1 or 2 shots that go off for some unknown reason. That is where something like the bb gauge may really help. So in reality, I am interested in what your testing will show. Plus with BB’s testing, we will have a good idea about sorting bb’s for a 499.
Good luck and stay in touch, Chris
CHRIS USA
Hi, i ran my 499 over the chrony with Umarex BB’s . Three shots all 232 fps. Yours might just need a break-in period with your tune. Yes, keep in touch. We’re gaining on it!
Fido3030
GunFun1
Thanks. Good advice. If you want an interesting project, take apart a Marlin 60, or a Remington Nylon 66. Without a video or another one to look at, putting them back together can involve lots of time and many bad words.
Fido
I’ve been warned about the Nylon66 before so that probably won’t be happening to me.
I try to always have reference material on hand even if I already know what I’m getting into but I have a Benjamin 3120 basketcase leftover from when I got outta the hospital myself.
Reb
Sorry, I meant Reb, not GunFun1 in the address. Fido
Reb
Yeah, I learned my lesson on a Benjamin.I had to send it to Ron Saul in pieces. Embarassing!
Fido3030
I thought about that gun being torn down on the bar at least once a day everyday I was in there and it was a major motivating factor in getting well enough to get back home.
Had to hock the Regal and 392 to get some cash back in the house.
Picked up a green dot sight made by Gamo to try on the Trail pistol.
Any airgun can be improved. I use a spring piston break barrel that has been upgraded with an adjustable objective optic and the “Earl Trigger” Mod via Youtube.. Blown away with the results, with the proper pellet and optic and lack of trigger travel I easily make 1″-1.50″ groups at 35 meters to 40 yards according to my optic settings. Happy 2016! Spring Pistons aren’t dead yet folks!