Good morning all. As you read this, I’m in an RV on my way to Las Vegas and the 2008 SHOT Show. Because I’m on the road and driving all day, I’m asking you veteran readers to please help out with the answers for the next two weeks. I’ll return on February 11. Of course, I’ll post the blog every day and answer those questions I have to, but I have to write a blog while I drive each day or am attending the SHOT Show, so I’ll be pretty busy for the next two weeks.
I won’t be doing any gun reviews during this time, but I have taken along photos, material and data to use for blogs, so things shouldn’t be that different. I’ll also give you a glimpse of anything extraordinary I see at the SHOT Show.
One of our readers sent a link to some good air rifle shipping boxes. If you need some, check with Cameron Packaging.
Today’s post was provided by /Shooter, who has spent some time with a .22 caliber IZH MP 513 rifle….
More on the IZH MP 513M in .22 cal. Mine is about broken in now after 1000 or so shots, and I may seem like I’m stuck on this gun, but that’s only because I really like it! I also have a .22 long rifle bolt-action made by IZH that I really like.
The 513M looks pretty utilitarian. It’s like you said in your review of the .177 cal. 513M – it’s not going to win any beauty contests. Not like owning a Daystate or a TX200 that you’d (well, I would) be afraid to scratch, this is definitely a hunting/knockabout rifle. It does look a little better with the Leapers 5th Gen 3-9×50 red/green illuminated mil-dot reticle scope on it.
I don’t use the red/green illumination on the scope, but it looks like it’ll be useful in low light. I use my scope at about 7x most of the time, and I’m still shooting 0.17 – 0.19″ groups at 10 yards on a good day. If the groups look a little wide for 10 yards, it’s because (I forgot to mention in the other posts) these aren’t shot off a bench, but standing with my supporting forearm resting up against my Weider Crossbow exercise machine’s bow arms.
Also, the velocities and muzzle energy are probably adversely affected by the fact that I live at 5500 ft. elevation and because the first screen of my ProChrono Digital chronograph is about 3.5 ft. from the muzzle. I don’t figure I’m losing that much velocity in 3.5 ft. though. It’s not like I’m bucking a stiff head wind in my basement. You’ll get more down around sea level, but I don’t know how much. With that, here are the velocities and energies I’ve been getting. I really like the muzzle energy calculator on Pyramyd Air’s site. I used it for all of the conversions here. Ten-shot groups for each type of pellet.
JSB Exact Jumbo, 15.8 gr.- 725 fps. av.- ES-22, 18.45 fp, 25.01 joules
Beeman Silver Arrow, 19.9 gr.- 693 fps. av.- ES-22, 18.03 fp, 24.44 joules
RWS Superpoint, 14.5 gr.- 753 fps av.- ES-19, 18.26 fp, 24.76 joules
RWS Super H-Point, 14.2 gr.- 741 fps av.- ES-13, 17.32 fp, 23.48 joules
RWS Meisterkugeln, 14.1 gr.- 760 fps av.- ES-8, 18.09 fp, 24.52 joules
RWS Hobby, 11.9 gr.- 833 fps av.- ES-12, 18.34 fp, 24.87 joules
H&N Baracuda Match, 21.6 Gr.- 554 fps av.- ES- 8, 14.72 fp, 19.96 joules
JSB Predator Ultra Shock, 15.8 gr.- 717 fps av.- ES- 6, 18.04 fp, 24.46 joules (Best Accuracy)
Daisy Precision Max, 13.4 gr.- 808 fps av.- ES-14, 19.43 fp, 26.34 joules
Beeman Ram Jet, 16.5 gr.- 697 av.- ES 17, S17.80 fp, 24.14 joules
Crosman Hyper-Velocity, 14.2 gr,- 755 av.- ES- 25, SD- 8, 17.98 fp, 24.37 joules
Crosman Premier (boxed), 14.3 gr.- 761 fps av.- ES- 40, 18.39 fp, 24.94 joules
Notice the drop in power for the H&N Baracudas. Too much weight at 21.6 gr. while the 19.9 gr. Beeman Silver Arrows delivered most of the gun’s energy down range. Too bad, the Silver Arrow’s accuracy at 10 yds. left something to be desired. I almost thought the Baracudas had broken my gun, but I shot the JSB Predator Ultra Shocks immediately after them, and the power and consistency were back to where they should be.
The Predator Ultra Shock (no plastic penetrator point, just a big yawning hollow) gave me the most consistent accuracy, while the Baracuda Extra Heavys, even with their really low extreme spread, were all over the place with this gun. I also noticed that the RWS Hobbys, while being the lightest, did not deliver the most energy. That was done by the Daisy Precision Max, which beat them out by over a full ft./lb. Too bad their accuracy was so mediocre. For accuracy in this gun, I’ll go with the JSB Predator Ultras followed closely by the group of RWS Meisters, Superpoints and Hobbys.
I haven’t needed the extra seals or mainspring that came with this rifle. Although it kicks pretty hard and buzzes a little with the lighter pellets (didn’t get to the tar yet), I really enjoy it so far. Now, if I can just get some time outside without freezing my tail off, I’ll shoot it for accuracy at about 25-30 yards and see what it’ll do.
45 thoughts on “Shooting report on IZH MP 513M”
Nice job with the report.
JoeG from Jersey
I suspect you’re right about the elevation affecting velocity. Mine (after some breaking in) is topping 20ft-lbs with some pellets. Oddly enough, though, it seems to need 10-15 shots to “warm up”… although in all honesty, I’m not sure if it’s the gun or me that needs it.
Also, have you tried the very cheap Crosman Copperhead wadcutters? Mine loves those, and can put 5 of ’em (10-yards) into a 1/8″ group.
Also seems to be less hold sensitive than some other springers – have you noticed that as well?
Shooter : Nice report on the M513! What I was wondering about was the aluminum compression tube that gun has and possible durability issues? Does the barrel end of the compression tube have steel bushings,(with a shoulder for the bolt to bear againist), installed that breach screws are treaded into? How is the lock-up there, and does it come loose with much use? Also on the comments on the pellets you used and results. I see that there are many posts on heavy pellets that advise not to use them in springers for fear of damage to the gun. The general advise is to only use “normal ” weight pellets (7.9gr. in .177 and 14.5 to 15.5 in .22) in these springers. For instance, my G1-extreme and it’s Quest twin in .177 and R_10 .177, will not shoot any of the lighter 7.9-8.0 grain pellets, as well as the 10.5 grain Kodiaks. Velocity for the 7.9 grain pellets is around 900fps. and for the kodiaks 750fps. Similar to the velocity drop you report with your M513, with normal wt. pellets and the heavy wts. , that you fear may break your gun. The thing is, the heavier pellets are twice as accurate. Should I avoid the heavy pellets in my springers and live with less accuracy? Is there that much risk of damage?
Great idea to provide the speed and power info for several (many!)pellets. It provides alot of info about the guns characteristics.
Nice review. In his review of this gun, B.B. mentioned some trouble with the scope relief and said that he had to crane his neck. Did you notice anything like this?
Great job /Shooter!
When I had my MP513 apart I didn’t notice any sleeving. Also, the breach pivot screw does not thread into the compression tube at all – it goes right through to a nut on the other end.
I wondered about the same thing regarding reliability – but I suspect that the use of moly impregnated lubes would prevent any excessive wear
One interesting thing I noted about the spring – the one that came out of my gun was virtually the same length as the unused one that came with the rifle. Which means they either pre-set the springs (unlikely), or the spring is understressed for the application (which would be good for reliability).
Good job. I noticed similar results with .177 Daisy P-Max’s: good power but so-so accuracy (great for plinking, though). I wonder if its worth hand-sorting them; at least the ones I have seemed uniformly made, although the graphite on them made them look dirty.
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Good show! about 4.5mm avg.
I generally just plink and hunt. With a 4x scope and with a rest at 10M:
Daisy 22sg 2mm c-t-c avg with H&N Baracuda Match 21.14gr.
Crosman 2100 3mm c-t-c avg with Beeman 1222 coated hollow point (chinese).
Daisy Powerline 953 4mm c-t-c avg with Gamo rockets/raptors and crosman premier super match.
Crosman 1377 5mm c-t-c avg with beeman 1222 coated hollow points (chinese).
Crosman quest 800x 7mm c-t-c avg with a basic tune and GRT-III trigger and H&N Baracuda Match.
Favorite hunting .177 ammo: crosman ultra mags and gamo rockets.
Favorite Hunting .22 ammo: H&N Baracuda Match and Gamo magnum points.
Hoping to see some JSB exacts jumbos and AA domes in stock someday.
Good Luck with the Benjamin Sheridan Discovery….we’ve been waiting for so long.
Great post Shooter!
A bit off topic here, but I need some advice: what would you buy if you had to choose between a RWS 350 Mag and a Gamo CFX?
Does Pyramid Air sell the Gamo CFX Royal (the one with the wood stock)?
Shooter: Great report! Great to see B.B. get some “time away”!! He deserves it!! I have a ? for other members. My Gamo Ricon when new, shot 415-490 fps.. (CPL) HUGE dev. I disasembled & tuned it following B.B.,s advice. I was so exited,, but NO change! Still, 415-490 fps.. Not the pells., as even JSB,s deviate wildly. What gives? Another reader reports consistant 510-515 w/ his Recon (P.A. reader report). I tuned my Cros. G-1 as per B.B. & picked up about 15 fps. & it is a SMOOTH, accurate shooter w/ no more than about 20 fps. dev.(850-870). I cant figure this one out! Any advice would be appriechiated! Thanks guys,Tim.
Nice report, you should get a commission as I just purchased the 513 on the strength of your report. I have been holding off getting a 22 springer because of the overstated velocities on most of them, but by your tests IZH seems to be very honest.
Between the RWS 350 Mag and the Gamo CFX?
Hmmm…If you’re getting a .177 cal, have you considered the Weihrauch HW 95? It’s about the same cost as the RWS 350 right now at Pyramid Air and it’s MILES apart in terms of trigger quality from the other two rifles you mentioned.
If .22 cal, I’d opt for the RWS. The Gamo trigger is pretty awful as it comes from the box. Figure another $35 minimum for an aftermarket GRT.
I seem stuck on trigger quality because a good one makes even an otherwise mediocre rifle shoot like a champ.
Hunting I like using a .22 break barrel or .22 multi pump. For targets I like anything that shoots staight and wouldn’t mind an HW97 mark III or AA TX200 Mark III in a .177 for FT a must. Wow the weihrauchs models have thinned a little at PA.
Versatile RWS 460 underlever with some power in .22 is going to shoot pretty well.
A single/multi pump with generally shoot well and PCP will do the same, but with more power. Check out the Benjamin Sheridan Discovery…..good place to start.
I wish there was gas rammed CFX .22 Royal with silencer and a good adjustable two stage trigger.
I’ve only seen a few .177 royals and possibly one .22 (unless a typo)out there somewhere.
Thanks to all of you for your kind words! I just wish I would have had some time to take pictures to go with the report, but I didn’t know that BB would post it in his blog. Maybe I’ll get some when I get outside with it for the longer range follow up.
It is a long rifle. I need to crane my head a little bit to get my eye in the right place. Length of pull on mine is dead on 14″ which is a little long for my short neck, but about right for my arms (go figure). Overall length is 47″ so it’s a big gun. That’s with the stock plastic butt plate. It’s pretty light for it’s size though. Scoped, mine weighs about 6.5 lbs.
Thanks for answering the question about the steel insert.
I’ve noticed that mine shoots about the same no matter how I hold it, as long as it’s gentle. I can actually get somewhat careless with my hold and still hit something. I always start out with the rifle resting on my palm, and then somewhere after 4+ shots, I’ll notice that my fingers have curled up and are grasping the stock. If I really take a hold though, like I’m shooting an ’06, the groups fall apart.
350M CFX dude,
I have both of these in .22
If you are looking for raw power..the 350M wins by miles. I’m taking 75~100yrd shots at pesky ground squirrels and I hit them good enough to put them down.
The CFX is a nice shooter but it needs an aftermarket trigger like the GRT-III. This is one that is better at closer ranges like 50 yrds max. Its easy to cock and is much lighter than the 350M. The only place I know of to get a CFX in .22 is thru Pyramyd and it comes with a scope that is somewhat usefull.
Bottom line…IMHO…if you need a powerful long range hunter/pest eliminater, then the 350M is fantastic. For shooting at close range(50 yrds max), then I think the CFX will be an excellent choice.
I also think IMHO…either one of these choices is kind of a waste in .177, there’s way too much power available…power that is much more efficient in .22.
If you dont see your answers here…ask some more specific questions.
Anonymous with the questions about the aluminum compression tube (cylinder),
I’ve seen air cylinders in manufacturing machines go for thousands and thousands of cycles without wearing out or developing leaks. I’m not worried about wear, and if/ when it does happen, I’ll just get a new one. For $160 it’s not a bad deal.
I don’t personally think that heavy pellets will damage my gun. I would have been surprised if that would have been the case. I would just avoid the Baracudas in this case simply because they aren’t delivering all the gun’s energy (plus not being as accurate in my gun). That being said, I could see where a heavy pellet might possibly set up some kind of harmonic in the spring that would eventually cause it to wear out prematurely. I think the chances of that happening are pretty slim though. I would be more afraid of using too light of a pellet and having the piston slam into the end of the cylinder thereby causing the same harmonics and also impact damage. With this gun, I try to stick with the pellets that are heavy enough that they don’t cause the gun to buzz as much (harmonics).
I have never sorted pellets. I’m not a formal competition shooter, so I’ve never felt the need. Some day if I have extra time on my hands I might try sorting them just to see what results I might get.
I ran out of Crosman Copperheads a while back and never restocked. They worked great in my 1322 though.
Anonymous with the questions about the aluminum compression tube (cylinder)again,
Forgot the question about lockup. My barrel seems to be locking up very much like when it was new. I think all of the screws could all benefit from some blue medium strength Loctite to keep them from backing out though. As they get loose, the gun’s accuracy changes. If you don’t want to Loctite them, at least check them often.
I used to take my guns up to my mom’s house at 9300 ft elevation. They shoot even slower there.
I’m sure you’ll like the 513! Be sure to let us know what your impressions of it are. Be aware that they kick pretty hard since they are so light. It’s something you can carry all day though.
Thanks for you response. By the way, in the Stephen Hunter book, “Time to Hunt” he says that many great shooters have short necks…. No joke.
Correction to my first comment, hopefully before there is any misunderstanding- “I just wish I would have had some time to take pictures to go with the report, but I didn’t know that BB would post it in his blog.” I should have just said that I didn’t have enough time to get any pictures together. Of course I knew that BB was going to post my review of my 513 sometime this week, I just didn’t expect it so soon. I’d hoped to have enough time to get some pictures to him to use with it, but that wasn’t to be… Sorry BB, for any misunderstanding I might have caused there. Sometimes my mouth (and typing fingers)runs ahead of my brain.
Never read that one. That’s because the short neck holds our heads very stable. Oops, there went my excuses for all the lousy groups I do come up with.
Thank you for the RWS and CFX answers. Now, I have to choose between HW 95 and RWS 350.
Thank you again.
Great post. M513 has been on my watch list for a bit. Your comments are a nice update to B.B.’s review of it Back in December of 06.
B.B.’s issue with needing to crane his neck was due to the need to mount the scope a bit forward to overcome a stop pin issue.
Excellent review, Shooter!
I’ve had the 513m in .177 for several months and many tins of ammo (I wanted it in .22, but I got sick of waiting & I didn’t have a supposed 1000 fps rifle.. so I bit). Even though it’s a little rough around the edges – it one of my favorites. I have a 110 yard range in my backyard, and while I can’t split asprins – it’s still hell on cans at around 100 yards.. This is no exaggeration – mil-dot 3-9×44 Leapers and bipod makes it happen. Excellent long range rifle and decent hunter – though that .22 sounds really nice… Tip, picked up a slip-on Pachmayr recoil pad and removed existing plate, and a foam tube (beer can cooler) over the cheekpiece and it makes the rifle much more pleasant to shoot. Where did you get your .22 long rifle Baikal?
Would appreciate your thoughts on this. Makes no sense to me.
****The following information may not be totally accurate***
BAIKAL MP-654K semi-automatic CO2 pistol is designed for target shooting. From December’ 07 this product can be also shipped to the US, after long negotiation with UK and US Customs authorities – they finally confirmed that Baikal MP-654K pistols with a power of 5-7 Joules are LEGAL for importation into the US.
B.B. or anyone who knows the answer, please forgive he off-topic post but I need some info.
I have a Diana model 38.
When it is disassembled, will the trigger assembly come out in one piece, or will the 3 ball bearings fall out?
Thanks for a great blog, keep up the good work.
I will ask EAA if they intend on importing it. If they don’t, it can’t be brought in, regardless of the law, because IZH only exports to EAA.
If your rifle says T01 or T05 on it as well as the model number, the trigger is unitized. If not, the trigger disassembles when it comes free of the rifle.
Thanks B.B. I appreciate the help.
I got my 513 from Pyramyd Air almost a year ago now after reading BB’s review. I like .22’s the most and although I have a couple of cheap .177’s, the .22’s are the first one I grab. I was going to put a regular recoil pad on it right away, then ended up not having the time. I’ll still get a decent recoil pad on it, hopefully soon. If things get too busy for me again, I might get one of those slip ons like you’re using. I was actually thinking of getting one of those lace-on, leather, surplus cheek pads for the Garand and using it on this gun. I think Cheaper than Dirt or Sportsman’s Guide has them. Can’t remember where I saw them… I’ll keep the beer cooler sleeve in mind though. Thanks for the ideas!
That’s some nice shooting to be able to hit cans at 100 yards with a springer that kicks like the 513! Wish I had a nice range like that, but since moving to town, I have to sneak around my yard when the neighbors small children aren’t out just to shoot at 30 yards. I suppose that’s fortunate. I could be living in an apartment…
For B.B. & Shooter,
I just picked up a 512m on a whim in .22 – and I’m very impressed with this cheap gun. It doesn’t have the heft or initial appeal of the 513m (like you just bought a Eastern bloc version of a Beeman R1), but it is one of those great all day plinking/hunting rifles. The effort to cock it is barely noticeable, the gun is very lightweight (albeit not perfectly balanced..) The trigger is decent, power is very nice for a small .22, and it’s getting nickel groups with RWS Meisters at 10 yards, and ripping soup cans at 25. And I didn’t have an available scope for it, so I used the open sights – and even they appear to be pretty good. I think you have an honorable mention for that “throwback” gun category, BB. Why does Pyramyd Air no longer carry the 512m in .22?
I forgot to mention – the 512m has a long 11mm dovetail at the top of the barrel breech (for the front site). I’m thinking this could make a potentially great “scout” rifle.. Would you recommend the BSA pistol scope from P.A?
Pyramyd Air still carries the gun, but EAA doesn’t have any in stock. When they come in, there is a standing order from PA.
Hold off on the scope buy just a bit. The Leapers pistol scope that was due out last year is in the 2008 catalog, and I will ask about it at the SHOT Show when I see them on Sunday.
350M CFX dude,
Really? 75 to 100 yd shots on ground squirrels. I seriously doubt it.
Drop at that range would be horrific. Somewhere in the range of -2 feet or more! And pellet dispersion at that range would be way more than the kill zone of a ground squirrel. Even from a rock solid rest at those ranges your percentage of hits would be low. Offhand or with a wobbly rest your chances are much lower. Not to mention range estimation difficulties. Or wind drift.
Sounds a lot like a pipe dream to me. Or a bad case of not knowing what 75 or 100 yards really is!
Maybe you could invest in a good tape measure to verify your ranges?
No wonder your post was anonymous!
Can I use a night vision scope on the mp513?
Which night vision scope are you planning on mounting?
I’ve read about the mp 513 and the 513m. I can’t tell from the pictures but must assume that the scope rail on the gun is also an 11mm steel dovetail with 3 very small holes for a scope stop? If so there isn’t a good provision for a scope stop on your heavy recoiling gun.
B.B. solved this problem, like he used to on the RWS rifles, by using a one piece mount andhanging the stop pin over the front of the rail. This solves the scope shift problem but makes eye relief a problem.
Tell me more about what you have and what you want to do and we’ll figure it out.
I would encourage you to post your future comments in the current/active comments section. You posted your last question under an article written over a year ago and not many airgunners check back that far for comments. By posting your next questions and observations in the current section many active airgunners, like yourself, will see it and may have other suggestions for you as well. You’ll need to copy and paste this link but it will take you to the current article and underneath it you can click on “Comments” to access the current discussion:
Look forward to seeing you there!
i dont have a short neck and i am a good shot