by B.B. Pelletier
Once, again, I want to remind everyone that I’m away filming The American Airgunner, so I won’t be answering very many comments. Also, my blogs will be shorter and different because I don’t have access to the equipment I need. My wife, Edith, will be monitoring the comments.
Crosman has been following the blog, and they’re just as caught up in the new Benjamin Marauder as everyone else. I suppose that’s normal, since they’re in the final stages of production for the first guns. But they contacted me and offered to send the parts to upgrade my rifle to the production specification. How could I refuse?
Crosman has been spending a great deal of time on the shape and size of the valve. CNC production makes it possible to obtain shapes and finishes only dreamed of in recent years, and they’re taking advantage of that to refine the gun’s performance.
The parts to modify the gun arrived yesterday, but I’m crashing with last-minute projects like this blog, so I haven’t looked at them yet. However, I’ll share the test data that Russ, a Crosman engineer, developed for me.
Indoor use – 2,000 psi fill
You don’t need a cannon indoors, so Russ set the rifle up for a 2,000 psi fill and velocities in the low 600s with 7.9-grain pellets. Once the setup was perfected, he got 50 shots on a 2,000 psi fill. The average velocity was 631 f.p.s. Top velocity was 644, low was 612. The spread is 32 f.p.s., which is nothing for 10 yards or so. And because this is only a 2,000 psi fill, hand-pumping will be easy.
Want more power? Russ tweaked the valve and got 30 shots with the same 7.9-grain pellet, only this time the average velocity was 862 f.p.s. That’s good enough for light hunting or field target. The low was 828 and high was 887, so the spread this time was 49 f.p.s. That’s a little high, so you would have to keep the range under 35 yards, or so. Target testing would confirm that.
Want more? Still running just 2,000 psi, Russ tweaked the valve again and got 20 shots averaging 928 f.p.s. The low was 898 and the high was 960, so the spread was 62 f.p.s. That’s high, but it clearly shows the flexibility of this new adjustable valve.
2,500 psi fill
Bumping the fill to 2,500 psi, Russ ran three more tests for us. The low was a 7.9-grain pellet averaging 884 f.p.s. He got 40 shots in this string that went from a low of 863 to a high of 900. This might be another hunting solution for the gun.
Next, he adjusted the valve to get 30 shots that averaged 921 f.p.s. This one, also with 7.9-grain pellets had a low of 901 and a high of 932, so the spread of 31 f.p.s. is tighter. A great hunting setup and Russ even used the hunting pellet when he tested it!
Finally, he bumped up the velocity to an average of 1,066 f.p.s. The low was 1,038 and high was 1,083, so the spread was 45 f.p.s. There were 20 shots in this string, and I want you to note how close he came to 1,100 f.p.s. with a 7.9-grain lead pellet. Obviously, with trick pellets, this TUNE is going to exceed the advertised 1,100 f.p.s.–to say nothing of the GUN!
3,000 psi fill
Okay, on 3,000 psi, Russ was able to shoot 20 10.5-grain Premiers at an average of 1,025 f.p.s. The low was 1,007, the high was 1039, so the spread was 32 f.p.s. That’s real performance from a gun that can be tuned the way this one can!
With another adjustment, he shot 40 7.9-grain Premiers at an average 906 f.p.s. with a low of 885 and a high of 918. That’s a 33 f.p.s. spread with a fast-moving light pellet. And 40 shots!
After still more tweaking, he got 40 shots with 10.5-grain Premiers at an average 919 f.p.s. velocity. The low (876) to high (937) spread was 61 f.p.s., which might be more than you want, but again, this was 40 shots with heavies!
Just to prove the gun could do it, Russ retuned the gun and shot a string with 7.9-grain Premiers that AVERAGED 1,098 f.p.s. The low was 1,069 and the high was 1,117 f.p.s. The spread for the 20 shots in this string was 48 f.p.s.
Wow! That’s all I can say. You have to realize–all these strings came from THE SAME RIFLE! That’s what I’ve been trying to explain, but Russ provided the test data to prove it. You can shoot in the basement at 630 f.p.s. with lights and with a tweak of the powerplant take the same gun to the woods and shoot heavies over 1,000 f.p.s.
It will be a few weeks before I have the time to swap these parts into my rifle and test it for you, but I plan on doing just that! The rifle goes on sale from Crosman on April 22 and at the end of May from Pyramyd Air.
If you have wanted to get into PCPs, and you have the money, I think the Benjamin Marauder is a great way to go!
My thanks to Crosman Corporation and more specifically to Russ for all the work he did (much more than I have shared with you today) to get these data to us.
136 thoughts on “Benjamin Marauder – Part 4”
The more you report on this rifle the more I want one. May 28th can’t come soon enough!
What were the ending pressures @ the end of the shot strings? What is the cylinder size of the Marauder?
Good questions Scott. The best part?…..Made in the U.S.A.
Are you also coming up to the Pyramyd Air moving sale?
No, I won't be at the Pyramyd Air moving sale. Somebody has to stay here & do some actual work.
wow thats got affordable power. Looks good too. Did you notice a huge difference in noise as you changed velocity? I build one of those sound boxes you blogged about from an old gun case and was able to shoot my .22LR indoors (I have good ventilation). It was more quiet than the Storm XT.
Shadow express dude
How many hand pumps does it take to get to 2000, 2500, and 3000 psi respectively?
How does it do w/CO2? Velocity and shots/fill?
Good morning Edith,
It is so very nice to have you back. Funny but when the “boss” is here the blog is working and on time–thank you.
The adjustability of this gun is a wonderful feature folks. That’s one of the reasons I love my Talon SS. Looks like a Marauder will be joining the SS and all his buddies in my gun safe.
I’ve been straining my non-mechanical brain trying to understand the tweaking of the Marauder valve and think that it’s a way of adjusting its top hat with that little screw that B.B. showed us in post number one. What do you think?
Another question is what are the numbers running on CO2 and how adjustable is the gun running CO2?
Shadow express dude,
Have you tried CB caps in your 22? Out of my son’s Savage falling block they make no noise. You hear the tink of the hammer falling and the thud of the bullet hitting the back stop.
I wonder how the wood will look on the Marauder and I for one would like the option of a stock up grade without having to hit the after market people. Is this a possibility or an option that Crosman has now or is considering? See Edith, Tom is right, in that we’re never satisfied.
I mean look at us. He got us the Discovery and now the Marauder, but we want more, which is actually a good thing for us all.
Wow, great to here from you again!
While Tom is gone, we’ll have more fun anyway, we can talk behind his back, and he’ll never know:)
Tell us all his secrets.. ya know like, does he snore?… never change the empty toilet paper roll? leave his dirty socks in the coffee pot?.. stuff like that..
We need the good stuff so we can roast the heck out of him, when he gets his award for best new TV show!!
Oh, the air gun…
Those shot strings are not that impressive for a PCP.. maybe great for one in this price point.. but not up to top notch FT quality…
The good thing is the best string was in the best feet per second.. (about 850 with the 10.5), so if one sets it there, and “tweaks” for the most shots, one might get enough shots on a fill for a FT contest..
But, Crosman is after the hunting/plinking market anyway..
There are not that many field target shooters out there anyway..
I’m sure they would love to have their rifle do well in some FT contests, and that might happen… we shall see..
I want to know how hard was it for Russ to “tweak” it?.. did he have to remove the action from the stock?
Ashland Air Rifle Range
Little off topic guys.
Just been firing my S410K .177 at 50 yards for some target practice with JSB Exacts.
The result was 3/4″ groups over 10 shots. However the shots were hitting about 1″ to the right of the point of aim. The obvious part is that they would drop considerably at this range. I was using the last milldot on my scope at 16X magnification to get the rounds at the right elevation. However I’m slightly confused as to why they are hitting to the right of the mark even though there was not a hint of wind.
My thoughts are that this has something to do with scope alignment?
Or maybe a defect in rifling which causes the rounds to move to the right? Thats abit far fetched but its a possibility. If I were shooting outside I would be putting it down to a breeze pushing the pellets offcourse somewere down range. But I was shooting on a calm day in a semi enclosed range where wind isnt a factor.
Any thoughts appreaciated.
I’m not sure either. Crosman hasn’t shipped the Marauder to me yet.
Shoot some pellets at 10 yards, 20 yards 30 yards, and 40 yards, on the same target. The centers of the various groups will probably not be in a vertical line.
You might also shoot some groups at the same target, at the same distance, but shoot at different scope power levels. 3X, 6x, 9x,12x and so on. Scopes will often have some variance in impact between magnification ranges.
It’s also possible that there was a light cross wind 40 yards away from you. As always, adjust to what’s happening on the paper.
Adjustment seems to work — too bad one has to remove the stock to make the change. Three different power levels, tested at least to some degree by the manufacturer and easily accessible to the shooter would have made more sense.
I’m guessing Magnus Effect, resulting from simulatneous spin and drop of pellet (similar to vertical crosswind?). Not really sure why you are surprised by displacement, unless you had used exact pellet and fill combination previously?
Ha ha, I bet B.B. is having a lot of fun, now.
B.B., now I’m a bit confused. It sounds like the Marauder has adjustable power after all. Is this tweaking of the valve the official power adjustment method or something different? Maybe taking the stock off gets to be easy with practice. The adjustment of the Savage AccuTrigger requires stock removal, but that is just a matter of a couple of screws, and the trigger adjustment itself involves turning just one screw.
Deadeye, that’s some good shooting at 50 yards. The B.B. formula is to multiply 10 shot groups by .7 to get the 5 shot equivalent which would be about 1 minute of angle. Correcting the lateral deflection is just a matter of adjusting windage, so I’m guessing your question is why did this lateral deflection appear after only a change in elevation. Since you’re shooting indoors, I don’t see that wind is a problem or the Magnus Effect which, as I understand it, requires some wind. The only other explanation I can think of is an irregularity due to not optically centering the scope. B.B. says that when a scope is not optically centered then elevation changes will cause lateral deflections. As for how to optically center your scope, you’re better of asking someone else here besides me.
By the way, what kind of 9mm handgun do you have?
Welcome! and a fellow Air Arms S410 fan!! (let’s not let them know we work for Air Arms)
I get two cases of Gunniess each month if I get lot’s of comments in.. how about you?:)
Your shooting the 12 foot lb version, right? (Mine is the FAC .177, with a power adjuster, 5 to 20 foot lbs)
At 50 yards, a 3/4″, 10 shot group.. 1″ to the right of the bull.. (I’m sure your use to 1/2″, 10 shot groups at 50 yards like me, so this is a major problem!!:)..
I bet it’s a little wind, or your pulling it, (how light do you have your trigger set?), or something.. your using the 8.4 JSB?…. have you tried the 10.2?
It’s nothing to worry about, just adjust your scope, and call it good!!… (or you could sell your rifle to me for $50, cause it’s no good anymore:)
I agree with Derrick, test at different distances too..
Ashland Air Rifle Range
RE: Magnus Effect
Consider that pellet is dropping (so substantially that he mentioned it), which is equivalent to cross-wind moving upwards perpendicular to pellet’s direction of travel, resulting in displacement horizontally perpendicular to pellet’s direction of travel.
Many other causes as well for lateral displacement, though, including scope misalignment with bore, parallax (likely at 16X), etc.
Will Crosman provide with or sell as an Accessory a single shot tray for larger/longer pellets that don’t fit in the maazine?
So, you want the "goods" on B.B./Tom, eh?
Here's a classic from a time before we'd met: While he was an Army officer and serving in Germany, he & his men went out on maneuvers. It was winter, quite cold and there was a good bit of snow on the ground. They stopped for the night and stayed in a building made of cement blocks. When Tom woke up the next morning, he was alone because all the other men had moved outside to sleep in the frigid, snowy weather. He was a loud snorer, but the sound was enhanced by the natural acoustics of the building.
I have been on the receiving end of that snoring, & it's truly deafening.
Here's a cute adjunct to the above story: I'd take the racket only so long before saying, "Stop snoring." I'd have to say it 3 or 4 times in a progressively louder voice so he'd stop snoring but without startling him. When he finally stopped, you would hear one of the cats (Hunny) purring as loud as a freight train as she lay at the foot of the bed. Apparently, Hunny thought Tom was purring. As it is with cats, they often start purring when they are around other felines that purr. In Hunny's eyes, Tom was just another kitty enjoying life.
Edith (Mrs. B.B.)
I will pass along your question to B.B. He’ll post whatever he finds out.
Edith (Mrs. B.B.)
re: “Does he ever leave his dirty socks in the coffe pot?”
This is so far out there that I can only assume you have done this or at least know of someone who has?
My only question is: why? lol
Mahalo Mrs. B.,
You’re right about the direction for the Magnus Effect, but I don’t know that this induced effect from the wind of dropping would be detectable. Only the numbers would tell.
Edith, that’s quite funny about snoring and the cats. However, I thought I read somewhere that snoring can be a health issue having to do with oxygen deficit. If it’s that loud, you may want to look into that.
Hm, here’s the phase in precision shooting
.50 caliber sniper rifles shooting over a mile with projectiles that have guidance systems.
Shadow Express Dude,
I had to delete your comment. The 1377C is inappropriate for critter control…especially the critter you mentioned & the distance you mentioned.
If you bought a gun from Pyramyd Air 2 days ago & it's already leaking, then I would contact customer service & work it out with them.
Edith (Mrs. B.B.)
He doesn't always snore. In fact, most nights there's no snoring. After suffering several consecutive sleepless nights early in our marriage, I observed a repeatable relationship between the consumption of certain quantities of carbohydrates & snoring that puts B52s to shame (don't tell him I said that 🙂
Since I control the menus (it's a traditional marriage–I cook, he eats :-), it managed the carb intake to levels needed for blissful nights.
Edith (Mrs. B.B.)
Shadow express dude
I’m reading a very interesting book on the history of the American Sniper (in fact I think that is what it is called).
They start with the history of sharpshooting, going back as far as the 1600’s.
One intesting chapter is about some tests American Rifleman did in the mid 90’s. One of the thing they did was a shoot-off between a Civil war era muzzle-loading rifled .58 caliber musket and a modern .308. The target was at 100 yards.
The muzzle-loader was slightly more accurate than the .308!
Blow me down!!
Wow I am usually the one asking you questions. I like Matt61 distance checks to see the flight of the pellet. Some flight paths have been quite screwy. As for scopes, that your domain.
There is a the yellow airgun forum, that has some pretty advanced shooters and a FT Section.
Edith, thanks for sharing. You and Tom have a good sense of humor.
Tom, “Break a leg!!!”
As for the Maurader, is there a simple way to switch from outdoor hunting power mode to an indoor target mode with less velocity and higher shot count?
For all the bloggers here, thanks for all the tips.
Crosman, You should send all the bloggers on this blog a free Benjamin Marauder.
Josh, thanks for the website.
Paul, thanks for the AG videos.
Wacky wayne, thanks for being so wacky.
Heather Parcells, call me.
Just checking in. Had company over last couple days and haven’t had time to keep up. And now that BB’s gone maybe I won’t hear anymore of those Chucker comments:)
Don’t know why the blogger email check box won’t show up until you preview for the first time. Looks like a bug to me.
Correction: Derrick’s distance checks. Was weaving in and out of eveyrone’s suggestions.
I just wonder too deadeye if it’s a shift in scope from using high magnification, the edge of the glass and the centering of the scope initially. I say try a different mag or dial up at 50 yards. Other than that, you could try a different scope or open sights if you had them. Well good luck.
Regarding the single-shot tray for the Marauder, I mentioned it in the first report.
This is good… real good!! the oven is heating up..
What really impresses me, is you had a remedy!! Way too cool!! He’s a very lucky guy, to have you for a partner!!
next one? two per day while he’s gone ought ta do..
You know nothing about cowboy coffee?
When the grounds you’ve used for two weeks in a row.. START to loose their flavor, if it’s Friday, and you’ll be going to town on Saturday, then you wash your socks, while you make coffee.. saves time.. gives the extra boost you need to do Saturdays work on Friday.. Don’t you know anything!!!..
These youngins’… we’ll at least you were smart enough to ask!!
Cowboy Wacky Wayne
Russ at Crosman,
I’m pretty sure you are reading this blog and I want to compliment you on what you and your cohorts have accomplished with the Marauder. The fact that you can get such long shot strings at such a wide range of velocities AND pellet weights is phenomenal! I don’t think anyone else is coming close to such adjustability.
Is that all accomplished by tweaking the little adjustment screw? Maybe a video on https://www.crosman.com/airguns/university
would help satisfy some of the curiosity that is running rampant.
Job well done!
Just a stupid thought-
It would be cool if Daisy took the 499 and adapted it to be a single shot target pistol.
I too want to thank Russ and compliment him on a great PCP for the price point.. testing to tell for sure..
But, lots of PCPs can adjust even more, my AAs410 for one, and in a split second too, with a small knob next to where I hold the gun anyway.. and I get 120 shots at that 700fps range with less loss of POI.. I’ll bet..
The FX line also, and other fine PCPs adjust power with ease..
The big news, is… that the Marauder might be doing it at 1/3 to 1/2 the price!!.. That is really something!.. and doing it in America!!.. that is really something!!!..
Ashland Air Rifle Range
What about the ending shot pressures & the cylinder size?
In all fairness to Crosman and Russ..
I’ve had 4 other Air Arms S410s, and none others got that same number of shots.. this is a special one.. and I have no idea why..
The others did get about 80 shots in .177 8.4′ gr. JSB at that 700fps.. so still a way to go Russ..
Hey Russ, Maybe we should trade a Marauder for my AAs410 for a week, and you could find out why my gun gets so many shots.. and put that valve design into the Marauder while there is still time!!
I hope Air Arms doesn’t read this one.. or..no more beer for me!!
Ashland Air Rifle Range
Never heard of the connection between carbohydrates and snoring. I’m quite fond of carbohydrates.
CowBoyStar Dad, I’m quite surprised too by the superiority of the muzzle loader to a modern .308. I’ve heard that muzzle loaders can be surprisingly close but not better. I’d be inclined to dismiss this report except that it’s from the American Rifleman.
Russ at Crosman, thanks for your testing and attention to the wonderful Marauder.
Wayne, your range will need to hold the first official S410 and Marauder shoot off.
ajvenom, Heather Parcells wears a wedding ring in her photos and all hope is lost.
All, I’ve read far enough into David Tubb’s book, The Rifle Shooter to recommend it. The amount of detail is stunning. I thought I had my shooting process broken down. For the mere mounting (shouldering) for the standing position, Tubb described seven detailed steps including swiveling elbows outward, leaning back slightly, canting the rifle 30 to minutes of angle at the last moment and rocking the head back precisely an eighth of an inch. This comes on top of an elaborately designed shooting position and micro-adjustment of the shooting coat (custom-tailored) which has all of its straps tightened just so except for number five which is left loose.
You would think a complete klutz would shoot well if he followed all of this, and with someone of talent like Tubb, you can see how he performs like he does.
It’s nice to see that every question one could think about has been considered by this guy. I was asking about the approach of sights to target awhile ago, and Tubb has a whole theory worked out. It’s somewhat individualized, but he says that the “wobble path” of most people is horizontal, so you should approach the bull that way.
He also has some refreshing differences from orthodox theory. For instance, he is a big fan of canting the rifle which is universally frowned on. Even more interesting for me, he is not a fan of the surprise trigger break. That classifies him with some Army Marksmanship Unit AMU shooters who don’t recommend it either. Unless you’re benchresting, it has made more sense to me to put all the marbles into a concerted effort to press the trigger at the right time than let it happen while the rifle is moving. Anyway, it’s a good book.
Thanks for the book review.. the approach of the bull has been a bug-a-boo for me.. I use to approach from anywhere, and try to hold on target…
but now, I’ve pretty much settled on, from the bottom up.. and holding there is out of the question, so I just go for the timing.. that’s why the trigger pull weight is so important for me.
This seems to work best for me, with a good trigger and PCP rifle, forget it for me if it’s a springer..
Tell us more when your done.. good stuff..
And yes, bring on the Marauder!! my AAs410 is very ready!!.. If Russ doesn’t take me up on my offer to trade for a week, then the one I have on order will have to do.. whenever that will be..
Ashland Air Rifle Range
Re: Marauder valve adjustment
Would it be possible to drill a hole in the stock so that the adjustment could be made without disassembly?
AlinCT – I made a replacement barrel for my Marksman 1010 from a section cut out of a 499 barrel. Groups (15′) shrank from about 12″ to 3″… I think I need a better platform!
Vince, that’s awesome! Is it something that you’d think you would try again with a different gun as a base? I was thinking of the 499 cut down with a new more curved grip and lever. Something that would conjure up images of those flintlock dueling pistols.
AlinCT – by and large, this shouldn’t be a difficult proposition for a lot of BB pistols. I’m kickin’ around trying to do one for a Walther PPK – now THAT’S a fun pistol that could use a little help in the accuracy department.
I don’t know if you were hangin’ around here a couple of months ago, but I did a multi-part guest blog on resurrecting an old Markham Model D BB gun (from right around the turn of the century), and I adapted a 499 barrel to that thing.
I see you’ve got a plan for the cowboy action air guns. I’m assuming the 99 is a repeater similar to the 499?
I’m not sure the Red Ryder is unsuitable, since the targets in CAS seem pretty large to me. My old one is so loose from 40 years of use that it cocks pretty fast, although “cowboy style” (cocking when mounted) doesn’t feed a BB.
Given the riccochet potential of BB’s on steel, what are you shooting at?
That’s a pretty cool idea. I’ve been wanting to do a Quigley Down Under (Sharps) look-alike out of a cheap, low-powered .22 springer (long hang time), but I haven’t gotten to the point of choosing a model to start with yet.
That whole deal with letting the trigger surprise you has always bugged me, too. I don’t see how canting the rifle could be a good thing, but since he’s shooting at fixed ranges, it probably makes no difference.
Sounds like a good book. Before you get down on yourself, remember that his ritual works for him, but may not make any sense to you. It’s surely important to do the same thing every time, but what you do may vary:).
Totally in agreement on the trigger. I don’t want to be surprised either. I want to know after the first stage take-up EXACTLY when the trigger will trip.
Re: your poi shift at 50 yards
You’ve received a lot of good suggestions to unravel the mystery.
I’ll second Matt61’s observations. The cause of the 1″ change in poi is either because your scope is not optically centered or with a change in magnification on your scope to 16x you have changed your cheek weld and that has promoted canting of the gun. Please use the search function on this sight and consider “optically centering” your scope if you have not already done so (assuming that this 1″ shift at 50 yards bothers you. If you elect to ignore the cause and just compensate with mil dots that’s ok too).
JSB heavies (18 grain) are a good pellet in my AA S410 .22 caliber at 50 yards. I would assume that the jsb’s are good in .177 as well (Wayne??? What pellet is the best at long range in your AA S410 in .177?). Deadeyedick, I would also encourage you to try kodiaks at long range.
Would really like to get paid, like you, to shoot shot strings on new pcp’s before anyone else in the world laid their hand on a new gun like the Maurader. I’m sure there’s other bs that goes along with the job as a Crosman engineer that would be as fun.
Your shot strings are promising. The accuracy over these velocity spreads is the ultimate test.
You must be very proud of your part in the Marauder’s design. I can’t remember when a new pcp design created such buzz on so many forums.
Why didn’t you make the power adjustment more accessible?
With the Air Arms S410 .177 FAC… When adjusted at 12 foot lbs, at 50 yards, and no wind, I’d say that 8.4 JSB…
If just a little wind, then 10.2 JSB.. more wind.. then 10.6 kodiak… for sure when I crank her up to 20 foot lbs, these two are best… the heavy pellets need more adjusting in the scope at 12 ft. lbs of course…
or.. if you don’t mind cleaning your barrel someday.. then CPH 10.5 are as good or maybe the best at 50 yards wind or not.. At least in my gun..
I find if I only shoot a few magazines of the CPH, then shoot the JSB, I never have to clean my barrels.. accuracy maintains..
Ashland Air Rifle Range
Tom what kind of numbers would you expect from a .22 Cal. Using Beeman 21.1 Gr. Kodiaks? Are you planning to test a .22?
Thanks for all the feedback guys,
I’ve got a Hawke Frontier Sidefocus 4-16X42. Its a good quality scope thats worth about £400. Luckily I got it for £150 because I know the right guy.
Ammo are JSB Exact which are 8.4 grains as said. I will look at the heavy versions to see if it helps atall, I’ve heard alot about the Kodiacks from AJ on the other forum, but I have never seen them for sale in Britan, if they are anything like most pellets then there is most likely a brand out there which is exactly the same but under a different brand name. I will also look at optically centering my optics.
Unfortunatly I dont have the facilities to try the 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 yard seperate target test because my range only has 20, 25 and 50 yard target holders and my garden gives me 25 yards max. So I will have to wait till I can get in the field on a good day to test this out.
Something I forgot to mention was when I did this test I had the scope mounted a little far back meaning my head position and cheek weld wouldnt have been perfect, this is a likely cause for the problem but I did have the rifle bench rested meaning that I didnt have a conventional hold on the rifle.
On a different subject I just wanted to say how impressed I was with my Ruger on Thursday night, I had abit of a spending spree at the gun shop and bought my tickets allowance of CCI minimag, Fired over 250 rounds thursday night, with atleast 50-60 of those in rapid fire. I didnt get a single blockage / jam, All rounds well well within 1/2″ at 50 yards, and double tap practice at 25 yards on bi-pod gave all 20 rounds within the 9 ring. AJ probably remembers me complaining about this rifle before, but since I added the new parts its like a different rifle. I really enjoy shooting this little gem now.
What’s the size of Marauder’s air reservoir in cc(s)?
Not my area of experience, but there have been rifles that are designed to be held at a cant. The (now banned) “chin guns” for silhouette shooting are a perfect example. The comb of the stock was made to actually tuck under your chin and downward pressure was applied to help lock the rifle into a more steady position.
Canting the rifle can be perfectly acceptable if the targets are always shot at a known (fixed) distance–as in silhouette.
Just thought I’d throw that out there…
The crosman premiers, in the cardboard box, are very accurate in my .22 S410. I’ve only shot about a box of them because they sometimes foul a barrel.
I lube all pellets shot at all velocities in the S410 with krytech. I read on the air arms forum that many owners have run thousands of rounds of crosman premiers through their S410’s without any change in accuracy and attribute that to lubing their pellets with krytech. Nonetheless, I shoot the premiers sparingly.
I picked up a Ruger 77/22 magnum at the pawn shop the other day.. It’s a very sweet little rifle.. It’s a single shot bolt with a 9 shot magazine, but she will put all nine rounds in 1″ at 75 yards, and 1-1/2″ at 100yards.. it’s very easy to shoot accurate with it, because it fits so nice, and it’s built so well.
I got a Ruger M77 in .270 cal as one of my firs firearms, and really liked it’s smooth action and the way it shoulders and shoots so accurate, so I’ve been adding more of the Ruger line..
The latest is a M77 Hawkeye in .223 cal. I wanted to see how it compares to the Howa 1500 in .223, that I love so much now… The Hawkeye was on sale for $550, the Howa 1500 was way less, with a nice scope!, so the Ruger has a lot to prove!! I can wait to get the 6-24x50AO leapers on it..
Speaking of scopes, I’m noticing, like Tom did, that the centerpoint/leapers line IS actually clearer than the middle quality that costs twice as much, in a Nikko or Nikon.. You have to move up to $800 or so to get a better scope than that $225 or so Centerpoint or Leapers 8-32x56AO.. It is just very clear and bright, even on 32 power.. just another .02 from Wacky Wayne
Ashland Air Rifle Range
Thanks for that info on the “krytech”.. where do YOU get it?
Kevin,you’ve sort of answered my question before I posted it…what about the elephant in the room.if CPs are the main pellet for accuracy in the new Marauder,how hard is it gonna be to bore paste polish it with the repeating action??I’m guessing barrel removal will be difficult for some/most. Krytech to the rescue! FrankB
I forgot to mention that H&N Barracuda are the same as Beeman Kodiak.. so maybe you can find them..
Ashland Air Rifle Range
Wayne & FrankB,
Although there are hearty endorsements for lubing pellets with krytech shot in pcp's AND powerful springers all over the internet, I've only used it for about 3,000 pellets. The hearty endorsements for krytech include Steve Schulz (2002 National PCP Champion) and has been used by numerous champions since.
I'll continue to use it but the jury is still out in my mind.
I bought my bottle of krytech from (hope I don't get into trouble here) Mac1. A little goes a long ways. Unlike Whiscombe Honey, you need to really shake the krytech before each use. Unlike Whiscombe Honey, krytech is a wax based product that completely dries in about 10 minutes (no more dirty fingers).
Please read the "tips" on using krytech on the Mac1 site.
Many have posted some great suggestions for you.
My 2 cents worth is canting the rifle when firing or the scope is not mounted level. First check the scope level. Then keep the crosshairs level when shooting and you may find some to the shift goes away.
Canting is a big deal to an airgun because to the arch of the shot.
Kevin,now thats some jury duty I could get into!!I know you’ll keep us posted… Wacky Wayne,thanks for the scope endorsement.no telling how much money you’ve saved us! FrankB
Really the 6-24 has got to be the best deal around if you can use that “LOW” of power:)
I can on outdoor shooting, so that is why it’s going on the new Ruger.. but on a FT Rifle, for the money, the 8-32x56AO leapers or centerpoint can’t be beat.. the leapers is really a better deal, you get more with it for less.. the name centerpoint is worth a little more, for some reason, but the leapers seems the same to me..
(I haven’t compared the Hawk line, but I bet it’s made at the same place.. don’t know)
Ashland Air Rifle Range
KryTech’s largest market is for lubricating bicycle chains. Your local bike shop probably has some in stock.
Shoot me an email and I’ll get you some. I probably owe you for something anyway.
Word verification: mumble
You guys have me second guessing myself about a scope sellection.
My Disco is currently sporting a Leapers 1.5-6×44 SWAT. It is just an OK scope… but it had a better than OK price. So I’ve been happy with the product. But it is too small for the Disco. Need more power.
So I ordered a Leaper 3-12×44 SWAT Mini which is on back order. Reading about the need for 16 or more power has me concerned. Have no plans to shoot FT just want to plink and play in the back yard maybe out to 50 yards max.
Thought the 3-12 would be fine. Now you have me thinking.
I once owned a Leapers 3-12×44 full size swat scope. Great scope for the money.
If you’re shooting at 50 yards I think you would enjoy higher magnification. Remember, when B.B. tested the Discovery he mounted a Leapers 8-32×56 on his test gun since “many people will be using the discovery for long range shooting.” When B.B. tested the AA S410 he mounted a Swift 6-18×50 for the same reasons. I may be off base but I think if B.B. was testing the AA S410 today for the first time he would also mount the leapers 8-32×56 on it.
I put a 7-21×40 bushnell elite on my S410 and plan on putting a higher magnification on it for shooting at 100 yards. 21x is ok for 50 yards for me. You may want more magnification than 21x though. The bushnell elite is a good scope and I chose it over the leapers because of weight but I don’t think the bushnell is worth the extra money over a leapers unless you’re obsessed with weight.
Did you end up putting a Nikko on one of your field target guns?
I put a BSA 4-16×40 IR scope on my disco. So far I am satisfied. Optics are very clear,given the objective is adjusted for that range, and mine even has a focus adjustable eye piece. The turrets also feature a zero-locking feature similar to centerpoint. I got mine reeel cheap for $35 dollars on eBay, and if you know where to look, you can get one for 80. Out to the 50 yard target and 100 yard plinking, 16x has been enough magnification to center the recticle on a dime sized target, and also to compensate for 100 yards. If your looking at centerpoint, wally’s world has a 4-16 for cheap.
I don’t plan to test a Marauder in .22, but I’m sure plenty of people will buy it in that caliber. So there should be some reports coming soon. I would expect the Marauder to shoot a .22 Kodiak pretty close to 800 f.p.s.
Kevin & John,
Thanks for scope input. I may call PA Monday and see about upgrading the scope. The 3-12 is back ordered anyway.
The 99 was a 25 shot repeater and the official education rifle before the 499. My sample hails from 1967 and is a nice 95% example. The 499 stresses accuracy over everything else, and is advertised as the world’s most accurate BB gun. The 99 was considered subpar, but with the new Avanti shot and the receiver sight from the 499 she is pretty darn close. I will try and give a better report down the road. Right now I find squinting effect protection from bouncing BB’s.
Lots of good scopes out there as you know. I really like the Bushnell optics and own about a half dozen of them. My new find is the Hawke line. Very nice. I definitely prefer it over the Leapers I’ve tried, that said the Leapers are an excellent value. Don’t forget that high magnification may come with penalties when used at short range. Sometimes they only focus down to 15 yards instead of 10 and may seem darker indoors. I personally feel 12-18x is more than enough at 50 yards. I’ve given away or sold everything I had over that. Just my .03.
Drill a hole I the stock? Eek – maybe wait for the next model with adjustable power? That seems to be the standard evolution.
All, if you have a copy of Tom’s R-1 book you better get it signed now, before he goes Hollywood on us. I think I saw him on TMZ last night.
One last thought for you Deadeye – is the POI for a different pellet that’s close in weight different than the JSB’s?
I may be off base here by I’m thinking it could just be that that’s the way that particular pellet behaves as a result of the rifling and the spin imparted by the barrel as a result of pellet shape and dimensions. For instance, I had JSB Expresss (14.3) gr hitting one inch high from my aimpoint at 30 yards but RWS Superpoints (14.5 gr) hitting right at my aim point or 1″ lower than the JSB’s.
On another topic, it now looks like I won’t be able to make the garage sale on May 30th. It’s my daughter’s senior prom and I wouldn’t be able to afford the divorce, alimony and my daughter not speaking to me if I missed this major event in my daughter’s and wife’s life.
…Maccari FT Dominator tx200…
Some years back Maccari made about 6 of these air rifles and put them on his “specials” page. They were snapped up quickly, and I have been looking for one for over a year.
I finally got one in the mail today and have been shooting it both lefty and righty (it has a righty stock, I shoot lefty). This is an amazingly accurate and smooth shooting rifle.
Either lefty or righty, it is as accurate an air rifle as I have for 10 meters. The trigger is not as light as a Zasadny Rapid or Whiscombe trigger, but then again it is about 1/3 the price.
Quite amazing how easy to hit the target with this spring gun which is shooting at the muzzle about 14-15 ft. lbs. I was eager to shoot it, and found that JSB Exacts are putting pellet on pellet and so (after trying only 4 other pellets) I will stick with these for awhile.
– Dr. G.
I went with the 10-50×60 Nikko “Nighteater” for the USFT… It is real clear for me, but I haven’t tasted the real good stuff yet..
and a Nikko 8-32x60AGIR Nighteater on the Daystate CR97…
and a Nikko 6-24x56AGIR Nighteater on the new Howa .223
These are not the $800 version, they go for $300-$400.. and really the Centerpoint/Leapers line seem as good or better..
and if Volvo likes the Hawke line even more than Leapers, well….they need a try too!
Ashland Air Rifle Range
Thanks, I’ll check the local bike shop next time in town.. that would be easy!
B.B. or Others,
Aside from price, what are the advantages of a fixed magnification scope versus a variable magnifictions scope?
– Dr. G.
Variables are pretty good now, but fixed power could have any or all of the following advantages:
-simpler and more reliable mechanism
-fewer optical surfaces for less reflection and better transmission; the xmission rate of all surfaces is multiplied together, so they “add up” to losses quickly even with fully-multicoated lenses
-better field of view; zoom eyepieces tend to have smaller FOV than fixed ones at the same magnification
-less distortion edge-to-edge, since it is easier to optimize fixed magnification eyepiece
-truly constant eye relief
-constant exit pupil
-potentially fewer optical aberrations in package of same size, since variable mechanism may force designer to use shorter focal length (faster f/ratio) objective in order to minimize tube length
Finally, you’ll probably still get better optics with fixed than variable at the same price point (not necessarily low), simply because there are fewer parameters for the designer to juggle and fewer parts for manufacture. Just my $.02, if the economy recovers:).
The offer stands. I’m happy to send you a bottle or 2.
I think POI will be different every time you change pellets at that kind of distance. Even pellets of same weight would have different flight characteristics. I bet you’d see impacts as much as 3+ inches apart if you used the same aim point for each group.
Have you considered these scopes?
Anyone who can help,
I just bought an FWB 124 in a gun show for $225 in great condition.All seemed well, until after a few shots, the cocking lever that connects to the mainspring fell out! So I put it back just like it should be, and it happened again after a couple shots! so my question is can the Pyramyd air gunsmiths fix this? If not, where can I fix it? Any help is appreciated.
Hey,Vince…Chris needs you! Chris,that really is a decent find,problem not withstanding.talk to Vince! Frank B
Yes I did look at those two 4-16 scope choices.
Wanted to the side AO feature. That was my only reason for not taking the Centrer point with the free shooting sticks.
Looking at it again though… parallax down to 3-yards is very attractive. But I see it is out of stock. Guess PA is trimming down for the move.
Most of the Leapers choices focus down to 10-yards.
Boris at Pyramyd Air can fix anything. Call their tech support dept. & ask for him.
Edith (Mrs. B.B.)
Chris, I have to confess that I’ve not had an FWB124 apart, but on every other breakbarrel I’ve ever worked on the cocking arm (which engages the piston, BTW, not the spring) has either a pair of ears that keep it inside the cocking slot, or (like the Chinese B20/B26 and some Beeman models) have a sliding shoe that stays in the tube, and the arm locks into that.
In any event, it sounds like something on the end of the arm is worn or broken. If that’s the case the best repair is, of course, to replace the worn part with a factory original. Otherwise, if a replacement can’t be found, either a new part would have to be made or the old one ‘weld repaired’.
I had a similar issue with my RWS 93 (Cometa 300) – the cocking arm ears had broken off. I was able to build up the broken areas by adding material with a welder, I then reshaped the added metal to reconstruct the missing ears. Works very well.
If you think I might be able to help here, you can email me at firstname.lastname@example.org
You should probably get a new piston seal while you are at it and maybe a spring. If you have the deluxe model that was a great find.
You will need to copy and paste. Rich did a nice job on my 124.
Paul Watts could also, but he pricey and always busy. (worth the money wait)
Bg farmer did a nice job of running down the details on the fixed vs. variable advantages. The one that use to be the biggest concern was changing point of impact with changing magnification. I still like to sight in at my favorite magnification just to be sure. I know Wayne will think it insane, but that number is usually 8X for me.
One of the things I don’t care for on the Hawke scopes is that they tend to stay fairly clear even if the distance setting on the AO is way off. Any ideas as to why? With a Bushnell I can estimate range down to about a foot. With the Hawke I kind of need to know as they appear clear over a wide range.
50X ? I spit my coffee on the keyboard. What is the field of view at 50 yards? I guess the difference is your attention is on stationary targets, I can’t imagine trying to follow a critter or just finding him in a tree at that magnification. The plus is you can shoot a tick of his back, or at least see the tick. : )
I see you had the same reaction to the scope powers in use by our brothers as I did, but I’ve beat that dead horse too much already:).
I get claustrophobic at 6X, and currently use 3X out to 100 yards. Shooting offhand, the higher powers just get more annoying than anything else.
Good point about the POI change on variables. I suspect that problem has more to do with the exaggeration of parallax at higher magnifications than any mechanical problem, but that’s just my suspicion.
I would suggest you consider the highest variable power scope you can afford then add a few more dollars to it and eat out less often the next two weeks. You won’t be sorry you did.
I forgot to mention that you want one that will focus to at least 10m. They are out there. Leapers and Centerpoint both have some that do.
I am a lefty. Are you saying it’s not that big a deal shooting lefty with a righty stock? I have passed up some really great guns because they are righty only. Should I reconsider?
Volvo & BG_Farmer,
Yep, Field Target and hunting are way different.. not much field of view needed at 50 yards, only 30" or so is needed.. with a non moving steel target and 1/2" to 1" kill zone, a 10" field of view would work.. but I think it's still about 4' anyway..
You can pick out the rust specks on the targets!!
But I get what you guys are saying, too… so, I'm using a very low power 6-24 on the hunting rifles:)..
Thanks so much!! email sent..
And yes, the 8-32x56AO side wheel does focus down to 10 yards…
AS I try to move up in field target scope world, I find it's a large and expensive jump from that leapers/centerpoint 8-32x56AO to the next better scope..
I always shoot the tick off their back before the fatal shot.. (don’t want the bugger to jump on me later:)..
..with the AAs410 they think their buddy farted, and so they don’t move at all!!.. fatal shot only seconds behind.. unless I see another tick of course:)
I should mention that my suggestion on the highest mag on variable scope is flavored by the fact that I only shoot at targets and not at animals, so far. My need is to be able to see the bull and to later see where the poi is without having to get up off my butt to walk up to the target. Please heed the advice of the others who also go for critters.
Thanks for the help, everyone. I think I am going to try Pyramyd Air first.
This gun stock is fine for me either way. I had an FX righty gun stock (called ambidextrous erroneously by Airguns Arizona) which I could not shoot lefty.
I guess it is worth trying to shoot a stock the other way, depending on circumstances.
Everybody thank you for the information on scopes. With about $500-$700 to spend on a 24 or 32 power scope, it sounds like I cannot go wrong with Bushnell?
– Dr. G.
All, yes the David Tubb book is quite the gold mine. As for canting, Kevin and Derrick are quite right that it applies to exact shooting distances in a competition format, so everything is zeroed in advance. The purpose seems to be to allow a more natural point of aim which is a VERY big deal to Tubb, more than I had imagined possible. And right again that the genesis of the canting is from the chin guns of silhouette shooting that have since been banned.
As for the approach business, here are a few more details. He says that you should not try to hit the bull on the fly. He himself will take a few seconds in each ring as he moves inward and will even hold steady on the 10 ring. He claims that once he was able to hold offhand with no perceptible movement with a 13 pound rifle and a 33X scope. But, he says the hold is something that comes through long experience.
For anyone developing, he says that the fastest pathway is to use the approach method because you keep everything more consistent. I’ve taken to pausing just the tiniest, perceptible bit when the crosshairs land where I want, and it seems to be an improvement over shooting on the fly. On the other hand, Tubb himself says that he does not hold on the X-ring. When he sees a ten, he will go. Any extra effort for the X will usually get him a 9, so you have to know when to quit and touch the shot off. He also mentions shooting at a relatively high cadence without screwing around or dawdling between shots.
I was impressed with Deadeye’s comments on the Ruger 10/22. However, I do wonder why I would need to get that when the Crosman 1077 is so good. Anyone had experience with Savage’s .22 autoloader, the model 64? The reviews are similar to other autoloaders with jamming with cheap ammo and good functioning and accuracy otherwise.
For springer problems, I highly recommend Rich from Mich. He had my B30 back on my doorstep five days after I sent it out, and it works perfectly. And his prices are good.
Dr. G, with your budget, I’ve heard the Leupold are the best scopes, and Swavorski are supposed to be the ultimate.
With that kind of budget, I’d order two Leapers 4-16 X 44’s and a Marauder and call it good.
Never had the chance and he already has a bunch of feedback but that was one of the first things that came to mind when I read deadeyes post. If he sighted in his rifle at say 20 yards on 6X and then cranked the scope to 16X both of those factor come into play. In order to take the scope out of the equation he needs to try it on the same power first at 50 yards and then dial it in. Good chance it may have just been off enough that he could not tell at a shorter distance. Once on track at 50 yards, try the scope at various magnifications to see if there is any difference.
Then again, could just be that AA carbine spits them all over. : )
In that price range I doubt you can make many mistakes. Just see how low the AO will focus down to. I had a 24X that only went to 15 yards and it was annoying as close shots happen with an air rifle.
On your 10-50×60 Nikko “Nighteater” the field of view at 100 yards if 2.2 feet. Once again super for targets but just wanted any rookies to understand that it would be hard to find anything that moves.
Do you have a FWB300S in your collection yet?
Are you planning on putting this new 24 or 32 power scope on a (Light? Medium? or Heavy recoiling?)springer or a pcp?
I have just shot this special TX200 at 30 yards today and am so blown away by the gun that I am thinking that I will put a fixed high power scope on it for 10 meter to 50 meter (and points beyond on unfortunately all too rare occasions).
I would want any scope to be able to be used on the 54 also, so I am looking for the heaviest duty scope brand made…I know that Leapers are The Best Value and I use the 24 and 32x variable Leapers on most of my rifles, yet it seems more in keeping with this TX200 to get an outstanding scope with more clarity (I do not shoot in anything but decent light except sometimes I shoot at dusk because that is the only time the skunks and bunnies seem to come out).
– Dr. G.
Chris – Dr. Beeman has owner and shop manuals for the FWB 124. I need to order a set myself. The link is:
Look for items 47 and 47.1, they are about 2/3 of the way down the page. You can get an original or a copy.
BB – I finally got photobucket figured out. The pictures of the FWB 124 are at:
I fibbed earlier – I talked to my dad, he only paid $2 for it. I got a set of seals and a spring from Jim Maccari. Any one know where to get a barrel for it? If I can find one, I’ll try to send it out to get fixed. With the hacked-up barrel, it’s not worth it. Once (if?) I get it shooting, I’ll worry about a scope and mounts.
A scope worthy of the TX but tough enough for a 54..hmmm.
Best fixed scope I have used is a Leupold Competition 35X. Phenomenal with great light transmission, good field of view, spot on ranging (many will focus down to 10 yards out of the box, some require refocus) but I wouldn’t put it on a 54.
The Hawke and Bushnell Elite series are all rated as heavy recoil scopes but are all variable focus. I’ve only owned one Hawke and that was a 4-12×40. Although some really like the scopes and I agree that for the money it was ok. I sent mine back and exchanged it for a bushnell legend 5-15×40. For the little price differance I think the bushnell legend is a much superior scope in this comparison.
I like the elite series of bushnell for light transmission especially and since you want something at dusk this might be a priority.
Nonetheless, I wouldn’t risk buying any scope other than a leapers with the TS platform for a 54. I had a heck of a time with mounts and scopes on the 54 I used to own.
Thanks for your help, you pointed me in some directions that I will pursue. You still use the Leupold? How much did/does it cost?
– Dr. G.
No, I don’t have a FWB300S in my collection yet.. should I?
but wait tell me later… I’ve no room now to add to the collection!!
Haven’t used the leupold competition scope in years. It came on a remington 700 that I traded several guns for. This used to be my varmint gun. Best varmint/benchrest scope I’ve ever looked through. Best variable scope/hunting scope I’ve looked through was a zeiss I mounted on a gun that was a gift. I took the gun and scope to the range but never hunted with it.
I just looked on the internet and new the leupold competition 35x scopes are now around $900.00. I’ve seen them on ebay and gunbroker in the past for much less.
Again, I have no idea if the leupold is springer rated.
From woodstock to saturday night live to the appollo…..
and soon to a casino near you…
unfortunately, I can’t get the time off to go.
I don’t get on air blogs much (just read hear and there) but I’m curious how the marauder compares to the talon ss when it comes to sound levels? Anyone heard (no pun intended, but funny though)?
Anonymous with the question about the Marauder noise level comparing to a talon ss,
I asked B.B. similar questions about the noise level of the Marauder. In the comments section of Part 2 on the Marauder is a lot of good information about how quiet the Marauder is.
Here’s an excerpt from the article B.B. wrote in Part 2 on the Marauder:
“I must be honest and revise my appraisal of what the rifle sounds like with the baffles installed and shooting a 10.5-grain Crosman Premier pellet at about 920 f.p.s. It sounds a lot like a Sheridan Blue Streak firing on one-quarter of a pump of air.”
In the comments B.B. also said that there was only one other pcp he has ever heard that was quieter than the Marauder and that was a “.177 BSA Super Ten that had a silencer that looked to be 1.5 inches across and 18 inches long.”
Since B.B. used to work for air force and didn’t mention a talon or condor I must assume that these aren’t as quiet as the Marauder. Although I have heard that with a 24″ barrel and bloop tube the air force guns can be quiet.
The Marauder sounds like a very quiet rifle.
There is a video on the Crosman website where you can hear the Marauder compared to a Discovery.
The Marauder is quieter than the Talon SS. However, compared to an SS with an Airhog tube on it, it’s about the same.
You don’t really hear the report–you hear the hammer spring.
Well, that’s just perfect. Now I have to make room in the safe…buy a new scope…find a way to hide it from the wife. This could get complicated. Thanks guys.
Believe me I know how you feel! LOL!
You’ve got to join us on the current discussion. Lot’s of great airgunners like you with a good sense of humor. Here’s the link that will always take you to the most recent article that B.B. has written (he writes a new article every day, Monday-Friday) and if you scroll down to the bottom of that article and click on “comments” you’ll join the rest of us addicts. You’ll need to copy and past this link:
Look forward to seeing you there!
I’m also curious about the sound level. The comparison to a Blue Streak doesn’t help, as I don’t have one. A description like dropping an empty two-liter bottle on a sidewalk from a height of six feet is much easier to duplicate. The pen on carpeting was a good description and made me happy because I have berber (instead of high pile) and the resulting noise level was acceptable. The thought of it actually being less than that (due to the high pile) was borderline orgasmic.
Now I don’t know what that Airhog attachment is that was mentioned for the Talon SS, but if it’s detachable, then the comparison isn’t really valid. Because detachable=silencer=federal anal probe. I just want the quietest .177 available without jumping through hoops.
The Crossman video was not very helpful for demonstrating anything other than that it is quieter than standard airguns. Whooptie doo. The Gamo Whisper commercial does the same thing, but they don’t bother to tell you that it’s report doesn’t even come close to its namesake. Instead we have to rely on reports from (non-paid, actual customers) who shelled out their hard-earned money to find out the product wasn’t really quiet. Now if Crossman really believed they had a quiet product (as wsa the point of that segment), why wouldn’t they have had it on the line with other “quiet” rifles?
Another problem with the video is the presense of two sounds when it is fired: A click and what sounds like a softer version of the other reports. What were those sounds?
Jim and everyone,
It is impossible to hear accurate sound on a computer speaker. So it is impossible for you to evaluate anything that way.
Sound level meters are all inaccurate, too, unless they are able to test impulse sounds. The ones that are cost several thousand dollars and have to be calibrated, so don’t expect to see reports that use them. I think I published the only one a few days ago, and of course the Marauder wasn’t on the list.
Yesterday a friend of mine was visiting and wanted to test the Marauder’s trigger, so I told him to dry-fire the empty gun. That is louder than shooting it with a pellet.
He was concerned because we were in my office, but I told him it would be okay. He fired and said immediately, “Oh, that’s QUIET!”
This guy has heard the best silencers the airgun world has to offer and he thought the empty Marauder is quiet.
Jim, I have since reported that the sound it louder than dropping as pen on a deep-pile carpet. I have compared it to a Blue Streak in a quarter-pump of air, which, of course, is impossible to do.
I am using figures of speech to convey a sense of quiet. Until YOU hear the rifle with your own ears you are not going to know how loud it really is.
I don’t know what experience you have with silencers. I have some with firearms and a lot with airguns. This Marauder is one of the quietest air rifles to come down the pike in a long time.
The core question I’m trying to answer is “is it quiet enough?” Sure, a .22 short fired over a valley can be compared to an angel’s sigh compared to .22 magnum fired in a bathroom. Could you please give an example that the great unwashed (especially myself) can duplicate?
B.B., the problem is that the only way I can hear what it actually sounds like is to spend $530 to find out. With the exagerated myths and inflated claims of supressors floating around out there, combined with my limited funds, makes a gamble like that unwise. Remember, the XM177 was equiped with a “supressor” that is anything but.
So, that’s why a comparable sound is so important. Does it sound as loud as an unsharpened #2 pencil being broken with two hands? Does it sound as loud as a 3-foot long 1/4-inch wooden dowel being broken with two hands? Is it as loud as an empty soda can droped (end first) onto bare concrete from a height of three feet? These are all easily duplicated examples with common materials. Such comparison would be very helpful.
Also, you say “I published the only one a few days ago, and of course the Marauder wasn’t on the list.” Not sure what you’re talking about. Please clarify.
B.B. is on his way to the Little Rock Airgun Expo, so I'm watching the blog for him.
Here's my 2 cents on your question.
Only so much can be accomplished without being there in person. Everyone doesn't have the same level of hearing. Some people hear higher-pitched sounds better, others hear lower sounds better, etc. Tom had ear infections as a child & that resulted in damaged hearing. He can't hear certain sound pitches or levels. For the most part, my hearing is fine.
I heard the Marauder shot while B.B. & I stood on our back porch, which has a poured concrete floor and brick walls. There are 3 windows & a glass door. In my opinion, that concrete floor & the bricks enhance sound. Yet, I found the Marauder to be very quiet.
Tom's description of dropping a pen on the carpet was good, and I thought everyone would get it. My brand new refrigerator makes more noise just cycling on & off than the Marauder makes with a shot. The cats scampering up the scratching posts make more noise than the Marauder. Exhausting the water from the base of a hand pump makes a LOT more noise than the Marauder.
I guess what I'm saying is that the Marauder makes noise, but there are a lot more things around our house that make considerably more noise, yet no one has ever said our house is noisy.
Once the Marauders are out there, maybe you could locate an owner in your area so you could hear first-hand how quiet it really is.
The reference to the "only one" is slightly misquoted. He published a list of guns that were tested by a licensed audiologist. The db levels were published, but the testing was done quite some time ago. Naturally, new guns like the Marauder wouldn't be on that list.
Edith (Mrs. B.B.)
Let me try and help you out since I was facing the same type of problem when buying a Talon SS and AirHog shroud. I’ve listened to people talking about mouse farts, etc trying to describe how much noise a particular gun makes.
B.B. said that the Maraurder makes the same level of noise that the Talon SS with the AirHog shroud does, the following is an experiment you can do to get an idea of that noise level.
Take a full 20 oz. CO2 tank in your left hand, gently hold its side against your left ear, take a common tea spoon in your right hand and tap it where the valve joins the tank. If you hear the tank ringing like a wind chime you’re hitting it too hard. Strike the tank just hard enough to hear the metalic sound the strike of the spoon makes.
That my friend is about how much noise my Talon SS with its AirHog shroud makes when it’s shot.
Notice that I didn’t say anything about the noise made by the air coming out of the end of the barrel cause there isn’t any.
But if you’re interested in an emperical description of it try doing a sharp exhail through a soda straw.
Hope that helps give you an idea of the Marauder’s noise level.
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Thank you for replying in Tom’s stead. I’m one of the first hundred on the waiting list, so that’s why I’m being persistant. I had inquired about the quietest airgun available (on another forum). Some air rifle banned by the british govt. was recommended. If it’s banned, it’s gotta be good. I soon found out that it is no longer produced and the few remaining ones out there run between $800-$900. Then someone recommended the Marauder and that’s what brought me here.
I will find a store that carries the 20 oz. tanks and bring my spoon.
Did AirHog discontinue the shroud? I visited their website and found no mention of a shroud, except for the one that comes from the factory.
Looky what I did. I sign on just to ask little question about noise and see what happens! LOL. I took Kevin’s advice and got on here (I hope I’m doing this right). I guess at this point all I can say is that sound is relative. I think what we all want to hear (no pun intended) is that we are going to pull the trigger and there will be nothing but a hole in the target to prove that we have done so. Everyone one of us has a different noise level need or want. My goal is to be quiet enough to keep a loud screeching sound from emitting from my wife (does anybody make a moderator for that one?). Be that in the basement or in the flower beds chasing chipmunks. That and I think it’s really cool to have a really quiet airgun. I guess my point is that we are all looking for an answer that is a) not that simple to answer here. b) only going to be answered if we lay out the dough. c) find somebody that will let us shoot theirs. d) wait for the guy in (c) to have to sell his cause of “irreconcilable differences”. Oh, let’s not forget that WHERE (read as surroundings) we shoot makes a HUGE difference in perceptible sound levels.
Good sense of humor! Welcome to the blog. I like your “pun” revelation. I believe that is what I’m looking for, at least. Maybe carry it a step farther for my nearsightedness: look at the gun on the table, look at the target…a hole appears in the X…score 250!!!
I just noticed that the Pyramid Air page for the Marauder says “only 2,000 psi”. Does that simply mean that is the default setting (as predicted in this blog) or is there some limitation on the models that will actually be sold? I want to make sure I can realize the 3,000 psi. Pyramid might want to expand or that or they might lose customers who haven’t read this blog.
Related to the process of ordering, if I already have a hand pump for a Logun S-16, what will I have to buy to use that same hand-pump with the Marauder? I’m not familiar with “Foster fittings”.
The Marauder has adjustable power and adjustable air-fill pressure like this blog says. The wording on the Pyramyd Air website is not meant to confuse. I looked for the word “only” in the description, in reference to the fill pressure, and failed to find it. Where did you see it?
A Foster coupling is one type of high-pressure air coupling. Your fill hose needs to end with a female Foster fitting in order to attach to the Marauder male Foster filling. Pyramyd Air’s website shows these fillings in the pneumatic accessories section. Unfortunately, they do fail to mention the all-important name “Foster,” an oversight I have forwarded to them.
The third line in Pyramyd Air’s detailed description under the Marauder says:
“Uses compressed air (only 2,000 psi) OR bulk-fill CO2”
For the record, the April 30 post at 11:15pm was me. I forgot to sign.
Pellets move left or right in no wind based on the rifling. It is known as gyroscopic precession and gravity. You apply force to a spinning object and it will move 90 degrees to the force.
For Tom and Snoring,
The wife makes me wear a CPAP pressure system. I don’t snore so she sleeps better. I have issues with it depending on the mask.
Not sure you saw my earlier response, but I’ve solved Tom’s snoring problem. Snoring only occurs when Tom takes in too many carbs at night. Carbs can be dessert, popcorn, beer (or any alcoholic beverage), lots of pasta, etc. If I notice that he’s about to have a bag of Orville Redenbacher’s at 7:30 pm, I ask him not to have a beer. The combo will shatter glass and make paint peel off the walls.
If you’ve never tracked your carb intake with your snoring, you might want to give it a whirl. Could be that Tom’s not the only one with this connection.
Edith (Mrs. B.B.)
Thanks for the write-up. The Crosman plant is right down the road (almost my backyard), so I'm happy to see them produce something this exceptional. kudos!
You and Russ show how adjustable the rifle is, from low velocity for indoor traps to high for hunting. This is great, but what wasn't said is how hard it is to do this. Is it a quick an easy thing, or a major tune up? If I've got a setting at 2500 psi; that I use for field target, how hard is it to get back to that once I retune for indoor traps? Can you expand more on this? Thanks!
This is only part 4 in the series that B.B. is doing on the new Crosman Marauder.
I'm confident that B.B. will go into great detail on how to adjust the power. In the initial segments (parts 1, 2 & 3) I remember B.B. touching on these issues so you may want to go back and read these articles. Please stay tuned for the subsequent Marauder articles by B.B. by checking here:
Thanks Kevin. I did read the other articles and they do touch on the subject. I'm interested in more detail than was given, as just like the grouping accuracy, this is a major feature of these rifles. I'm definitely turned for more Marauder news.
Your comment was number 129 in Part 4 of the Marauder series. When combined with Part 1 (115 comments), Part 2 (104 comments) and Part 3 (140 comments) that totals over 488 comments on the new Crosman Marauder report that B.B. is in the midst of writing about and the series isn't done yet!
I don't remember a new air gun introduction that warranted this many segments to report on or generated this many comments.
I'm with you when you saw I'm definately anxious for more Marauder news!
Truly exciting times for those of us interested in airguns.
What is better in preformance, the Benjamin Marauder or a Air Arms S410
What is your definition of performance? Accuracy at 30 yards? Accuracy at 100 yards? Power? Number of accurate shots per fill? Does this apply to .177 or .22 caliber?
Can anyone point me in the direction of finding an "How To Manual" for replacing a Maraurder barrell?
Contact Crosman customer service.
A quick question. So I have been looking at Marauder vs AA S510, from the reviews on the specs it seams that AA is only better because of its stock? at the same time S510 is double price. Could you clarify why is this so? I mean Marauder gets better shot count, wins in quietness has mach grade trigger manual safety and so on.
Second question is this rifle really made in USA or it is assembled from Chinese parts in USA? the material of quick disconnect port looked like the metal on those 50c screws in walmart…
Why I ask is because I want to get a pcp and was looking at S500 actually of AA. but if I can get same quality rifle from Benjamin for 1/2price I would go with the marauder…
best regards alex
Yes the Marauder is made in the USA. The fill nipple is stainless steel and rated to 3,000 psi working pressure.
As for which is "better," what does better mean? Can they both shoot accurately. Yes. Do they both have nice triggers? Yes again. Are they both adjustable for fill pressure and powerr? No, only the Marauder is.
I like the Marauder a lot. I think it's one of the best values in a PCP these days.
Why does the S500 cost more? Because the dollar is depressed right now. In the UK, the Marauder costs as much or more than the S500.
That's my opinion.