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Education / Training BKL rings – Part 3

BKL rings – Part 3

by B.B. Pelletier

Part 2
Part 1

The BKL 260 mount we’ve been testing.

This test has taken an inordinate amount of time, primarily because of my illness and some other pressing matters. We’re testing the BKL 260 mount to determine if its clamping pressure is good enough to prevent movement under recoil without a positive recoil stop.

In the last report, I tested the mount on a Hammerli Razor, a standard sporter spring rifle, and it held up fine. Over 500 shots later, it didn’t move. I’d planned to do a similar test on a Webley Patriot, which is the same as a Beeman Kodiak, but as the test drew near I decided that 500 shots were unnecessary — 100 shots would be sufficient. The Patriot/Kodiak is a spring-powered jackhammer that will move or break a scope in very few shots. Today’s test will demonstrate that. Mac switched the scope from the Hammerli Razor to the Webley Patriot generously provided by AirForce Airguns owner John McCaslin. Though this is a .177 caliber rifle, it still has all of the heavy recoil characteristics of the type.

This is the setup Mac used to measure scope/mount movement.

The rails were first scrupulously cleaned with a swab and denatured alcohol. This step is essential to success with these mounts. Tape was placed behind the rear clamp and in front of the front clamp to monitor any mount movement on the rails. The same Bushnell Trophy 6-18×40 was used in this test to keep everything equal. Mac also put tape behind the rear ring and in front of the front ring to measure any movement of the scope in the rings.

After only 8 shots, the scope had moved in the rings.

Mac proceeded to the range to start shooting. After 8 shots, there was considerable scope movement in the rings.

Normally, the test would have ended right there, but Mac was given a small packet of a proprietary product that’s being developed by AirForce. The purpose of this product is to prevent mount movement in the dovetails of a gun. But, Mac figured it would also work on the rings and the scope tube. So he removed the ring caps, reset the scope to zero, and applied this product to the ring caps. Over the next 92 shots, there was no measurable movement in the rings.

A Patriot can be extremely hard on a scope.

The Patriot’s recoil lifted the entire rear sight during 100 rounds of shooting.

The recoil of the Webley also loosened the front objective ring of the scope and separated it from the scope. Many old timers know that the Webley Patriot/Beeman Kodiak is the hardest spring rifle as far as recoil is concerned. Newer shooters are not aware of this, which is why I’m taking the time to explain all the damage this gun did.

So what’s the bottom line with this test? Did we succeed or fail? From the standpoint of the BKL mount not moving on the dovetail, the mount passed the test. However, with the movement of the scope in the rings, the test was not a complete success. The introduction of the proprietary non-slip product that AirForce is developing seems to have solved that problem, so BKL users should be able to use their mounts for almost any heavy recoil situation.

author avatar
Tom Gaylord (B.B. Pelletier)
Tom Gaylord, also known as B.B. Pelletier, provides expert insights to airgunners all over the world on behalf of Pyramyd AIR. He has earned the title The Godfather of Airguns™ for his contributions to the industry, spending many years with AirForce Airguns and starting magazines dedicated to the sport such as Airgun Illustrated.

150 thoughts on “BKL rings – Part 3”

  1. Very interesting. I noticed that my scope had movement from the recoil of my Benjamin Trail NP. The movement caused some wear marks on the scope, and I am not too happy about that. I took the scope out and wiped it down thoroughly and then remounted it. I haven’t shot the gun a ton since then. I believe a little slippage is still happening, but tightening the screws the way Tom says is the best way to prevent slippage. I might need a better mount to entirely eliminate it.


  2. Its still the 3rd where im at. I’ve got a question about a scope mount. Is the crosman 459mt scope mount that BB recomended for the crosman 2260 metal or plastic? Thank you

  3. Edith
    I have a response to what I believe was in yesterday’s comments. I have a 2240 and plan to get a longer barrel. I will not give names but was informed that the 14.5″ would increase velocity, the 24″ would not, and the 18″ would do the best. This pertains to your response about RWS 34’s. I guess I’m just saying that there maybe subtle design differences between the RWS-34 & RWS-34P that make up for barrel velocity equality. I don’t know it is just a thought, you and Tom know best. I can not even be considered an amateur.


    • rikib,

      I think you were misinformed. With a pneumatic (where a valve is dumping pressurized air behind the pellet) a longer barrel gives more velocity. That is within limits of course. With a mile long barrel friction wins and velocity decreases.

      For a springer the piston only applies pressure for a short period of time. Hence the pellet achieves maximum velocity within the first 9-12 inches.


    • rikib

      You are not so misinformed as just comparing apples to oranges. Barrel length affects velocity differently depending on the powerplant. CO2 guns guns will be different from springers AND different from pneumatics.

      The barrel lengths you quoted come from BB’s report on the effect of barrel length on velocity in CO2 guns.


      Note BB used the same gun for all the barrel lengths. The gun he used was CO2 and .22 caliber so your 2240 should get comparable results.

      Pneumatic airguns behave differently than CO2 airguns do when the barrel length changes. BB wrote a follow up report on pnuematics with different barrel lengths here:


      BB covered all his bases by talking about all 3 powerplants in this article:


      All three articles make for some good reading.

        • Edith

          If I corrected you, it was completely inadvertently. {:^)

          Anyway, it certainly would seem that a different barrel length would effect even a springer, one way or the other. Perhaps this is a test that Mac could carry out for a future blog? I only shudder to think what poor springer would have to ‘take one for the team.’

          • SL
            Thanks for the guidance, I had not realized that different powerplants would react differently. Like I said I can not even be considered close to amateur ranks.


  4. Hey DaveUK,

    How was the shipping on those Coppa Points you bought on Ebay? I hope I don’t have problems with dented tins. I hope someone has something similar to PA’s padded tin holder for shipping. Getting dented tins ruins my day.


  5. Good morning(or day 🙂 )Ryan! I am truly sorry for your pellets,i have bought DIANA SPORT 22 cal and they are good,exept one mayor flaw they dont have pellet weight on tin!!!!Advice hobbies dont dent or bent 🙂

    • Good morning to you! Its hard to find some German pellets here. I personally am looking for some H&N copper plated round balls for my collection. I don’t want to shoot them at all really. I just can’t stand knowing such a thing exists, and I don’t have it. I seriously can’t want for my Coppa Points to arrive.


      • Ryan,

        I replied to your similar query on yesterday’s blog, but here it is again:

        I can’t tell you, since it’s a PA competitor– Edith would kill me! But look around on the net, you won’t have too hard a time finding them. I’ll give you a hint. It’s in the Southwest, the “immigration brouhaha” state.

        How come PA doesn’t sell the H&N round balls???


        • AlanL,

          I replied to your comment on yesterday’s blog, but here it is again:

          I would NOT kill you…but you might be a little battered and bruised 🙂

          Pyramyd AIR might carry the round balls in the future. We have a lot of H&N products coming in, so it’s possible that they just haven’t been added to the website yet.


          • AlanL vs. Edith in the square circle huh? Where is Don King when you need him?

            This would be a tough one for the bookies to call. AlanL is certainly a bruiser, with truly monstrous upper body proportions. But then you have Edith, owing to her days as a budding tennis prodigy, has the propensity to “float like a butterfly and sting like a bee.”

            Sorry AlanL, but this one bears too many resemblances to the Thrilla in Manila. My money is on Edith.

        • I’m kinda bad at finding stuff sometimes, and this appears to be one of those times. I kinda figured its a Texas based Airgun store? But after that I’m lost. As Edith will only be battering you, can you please take your licks and be done with it? Thank you AlanL, your bruises are my copper plated round balls.


      • Ryan:
        I got my two tins of Coppa Points from an Army surplus guy who has a stall at our local market.
        So infrequently do I shoot them and thus buy them I hope he still exists.
        Although the tins were in good condition they weren’t gleaming.
        They looked like they may have been stored for a while.
        I did a check on what pellets I have left and the Copper plating is uniform on the exterior of all the pellets.
        I then looked up the skirt(pardon the pun)and found about half a dozen where the plating had not quite reached the full depth of the interior of the pellet.
        About 5% of what is left in the tin.
        I tested out my worked on rear sights and shot a Coppa point clean through both sides of a baked bean tin at 50′.The SKS Domehead(Not RWS,my bad)just dent and slightly split one side of the tin.
        Glad to say my rear sight is better from left to right and the elevation is working as it should thanks to a thin cocktail stick (only temp)replacing the thick sprung slide adjuster.
        You will love them Coppa Points Ryan,I know it 🙂

        • DaveUK,

          That is good news! I am very excited indeed for my beauties. I love my Kodiak Double Gold’s, but I wish they were all fully copper coated, and not tarnished. Coppa Points also look very nice with those pointed tips. Kodiaks are domed, but kinda pointed, also beautiful. I must chastise you for using anything other than JSB, RWS, and H&N. Crosman Premiers work for something cheap for plinking, but I hate how dirty they are. I get graphite/lead all over my fingers from only a couple shots.


  6. When i was in elementary school we have to do (as a project) house and a fence,i did that but my fence was made from diabolo exact ,now i have gold coloured fence so i supose i would use the coopa point

    • C-S:
      I have neighbours on three sides so have to make sure my back stops are up to the job.
      What I use,especially to prevent ricochets,is an expanded foam Archery target backstop,hung on the back of a slightly larger square of old kitchen worktop.
      The foam square is about 2 by 2 foot and 8 inches deep.
      After each shooting session you can push back in any ‘exit wounds’ on the foam block.
      Good as new 🙂

    • C-S,

      Sounds like you’re a like minded individual. I would suggest Coppa Points for the fence, as they are copper colored and pointed. If you want gold colored for sure, then Gamo Raptors would be the best as they are coated with gold. Cheers!


  7. Good morning Tom and Edith,

    How about sleeping in one’s own bed for a good night’s sleep! Do you by any chance remember the Bushnell Phantom pistol scope form the 60’s that came with a mount for various revolvers that just snapped under the gun’s top strap?

    Well it also included a little tube of a white powder that was used to keep the mount from slipping under recoil. The powder worked and if my memory is correct the white powder was diatomatious earth. I don’t see why a little DE wouldn’t work to keep a scope from slipping in its rings.

    Although I wonder if it would scratch the scope tube? Has anyone tried that and if so how’d it work?

    Mr B.

  8. Mr. B

    I’ve heard a saying, that a properly installed proper scope on a proper mount never slips 🙂 In case it does – you probably were a bit too greedy buying parts 🙂
    Well, for my part – I’ve never seen a slipping scope on ANY springer if aforementioned is OK.
    There’s a solution, that can give you a real grip without any chance of scratching your scope. In fact it is literally a solution.
    Use some ethyl alcohol and rosin/colophony. It is used in electonics as a flux. Degrease all the needed surfaces. Make a solution of rosin in alcohol and smear surfaces with it (make a thin coat). Then put a scope and tighten it right way. Rosin is known to give a tremendous friction under pressure, so it’ll hold things like pliers without a risk of scratching 🙂
    I used to date a girl who danced in ballet, so I was pretty much suprised to see her tossing a box of rosin into her bag one day. She told me they use it the same way – to prevent their pointe shoes from slipping on stage 🙂


  9. Gamo Big Cat. I have been trying different scopes and Loctite this week and have had no luck at all. The rear mount has a pin that goes into the gun, so I thought that would help in keeping the scope from slipping, so with all my trials I had never even looked at that mount. Last night I had enough and took everything off the gun. I looked at the hole in the gun that excepts the mount pin. The hole is now oval and much larger than the pin. I was placing to much faith on that pin, thinking it would not fail. I will order the BKL 260 and a better scope while I am at it. Now I wished the gun came with iron sights. But I do have ole Walther to drive tacks with while waiting for the mounts.

    • Gene

      Have you tried shimming the rings? This will tighten the fit between the scope tube and rings. Use something somewhat grippy and it will not budge.

      I had a rifle slip out of my hands (no fish-scale checkering unfortunately) and it hit the eyepiece of the scope on a table on its way down. The scope didn’t break, budge, or lose zero.

      The stop pin hole elongating is no easy fix unless it is in a seperate rail that can be removed from the receiver. I have read of people drilling their own scope stop holes but you would have to disassemble the rifle and drill the hole perfectly centered. Not something I would try personally.

      • I saw your reply on another thread this week, and thanks for that. No, I have not tried that yet, but now I have to almost start over with this new mount. The stop pin hole is indeed drilled into the gun, not a rail, so it is not useless. I can put a scope stop there on the rail if I need to, or just cover the hole with a mount. Never would have guessed it would enlarge like it did. I don’t think I have shot it more than a 1000 times.

  10. duskwight,

    Thanks for telling me about using rosin which is a much better idea than the DE or the double sided sticky tape that comes with some of the scope mounts that I have purchased. I never would have thought about desolving it in alcohol. I beg to disagree with you about scopes and mounts slipping on a springer. Until I bought the UTG Scope Mount Base, Fits RWS Diana 34, 36, 38, & 45, Compensates for Droop & Stops Scope Shift from PA, my Diana 350 Magnum moved a one piece mount and a scope stop backwards.

    Mr B.

    • Mr. B.

      Perhaps those mounts were not good enough for your kind of power 😉
      BTW, every mount I use has an arrestor pin in a form of M5 or M6 screw, that comes into a hole in a dovetail, so it’s a “move me, make my day” for any kind of recoil.
      I prefer using local-made “Gennadych” one-piece mounts: high-strength B95 aluminium alloy, I believe it’s 7075 T6 or Ergal in the West, 4 M5 hardened bolts to hold it on the dovetail, 8 M4 hardened bolts for the rings and 2 M6 arrestor pins. Diana Magnum/Centerpoint mounts are also quite good.


  11. Edith,

    Any chance you can add ‘live update’ to the blog? I’m on the BBC French Open live page, and each comment posts and refreshes the page automatically…


  12. Get it while it lasts


    $76 is the cheapest I have seen since I have started keeping track. I would buy it myself but I think reading one of the beaten and ragged copies that has been moving its way across the country would be the ideal. Kind of like reading the dead sea scrolls.

    You guys stand to make a mint when this is rereleased. Tom can get a tractor AND a boat!

    • SL,

      Tom found an R1 book at our local Half-Price Books store. I believe it was only $10 and in perfect condition. If you don’t live near one of these stores, then $76 is the next-best price.

      We have plans to reprint the book, but life keeps getting in the way 🙂


  13. $10?!! Dangit!

    I certainly hope he bought it, if he didn’t then I have my checkbook ready and you have my email address.

    When I read about deals like this, not available to me, it makes me wanna go to my room, slam the door, and pout.

  14. I’ll pass on putting a scope on a springer. They are typically good to about 30 yards or so for any kind of regularly repeatable work, anyway, and unless you are legally blind, open sights should do the trick and save many headaches. I’ve always been partial to open sights, but after seeing a lot lately what even old guys can do with a muzzleloader and primitive sights at similar distances (not to mention much longer ones), scopes just seem unnecessary. Yes, scopes make it easier to see, and effortlessly shrink group sizes, but its relative: once you’ve made a bunch of one-hole groups at whatever range your yard supports, where do you go from there:)? I would say take the scope off and maybe even try shooting offhand or sitting. By the way, if you are always hitting your targets and achieving good group sizes, you are either very good and just keeping in tune (and probably bored), or you are wasting ammo. when you could be challenging yourself.

    • BG_Farmer, that’s well taken. However, for the visually challenged, scopes make all the difference. My Dad wasn’t hitting anything with open sights (in the case of the M1, partly because of his refusal to look through the rear aperture). In the area of challenge, increasing the power to magnify the movement can make things quite a bit more difficult, especially in standing. I’ve found open sights to be a relief in some cases.


      • Gene,
        a little JB weld and/or some hacksaw and file action will fix that:).

        I don’t actually have anything against scopes at appropriate ranges or for cases where visual problems really exist; even in cases where there is not enough shooting practice to make open sights viable (the hunters who sight in once a year for example). It just seems to me that people often make excuses for what is simply an unwillingness to learn how to shoot with open sights.

        I’m not on a high-horse about this (although I usually sound like I am:)) because I was once the same way — I just didn’t have enough practice to maintain any level of skill with open sights. This is one reason I love air rifles so much: they allow frequent practice and the ranges are friendly and accessible to open sights. Even pretty lousy eyesight (believe me, targets are egg-shaped:)) can adapt to shooting open sights at 10M or even 20, for example. I bought my first air rifle in large part because I missed shooting that way and 33 feet seemed like it was manageable. What I didn’t expect was that regular practice at that range enabled me to go much farther in a remarkably short time (for a slow learner like I am:)). The targets really aren’t any clearer, though:).

        You’re right about excess magnification causing problems. You can actually shoot pretty well at 100 yards with 2.5 or 3x, for example.

        PS. We need a preview, please. My meandering ramblings are bad enough without spelling and grammar errors:).

    • BG_Farmer

      You cost me 30 bucks.

      Your two part series on the Red Ryder gave me a thirst which would not be slaked until I finally bought a BB rifle of my own. My very first BB gun to be precise. Seeing as how I am the consummate lazy ass, and I was already at Wal-Mart, I opted for the 650 shot capacity of the RR carbine rather than order and wait for the pricier single shot 499. Also it was the 70th anniversary edition (or 72nd ed. depending on how Daisy is making their calculations at the time) and comes in an actual box, rather than the space-age clam shell which is destroyed by opening it.

      When I first got the RR I was impressed by the accuracy given all the disclosures I had read about it. But it had a scratch on the receiver where the barrel band was installed. Not good for a new gun or a collector’s edition besides, even if I have to wait 250 years for the value to go up. So I went back to Wally World and exchanged it for another. This one is even more accurate than the first, and I didn’t have to make any adjustments to the sights on this one. My indoor range is not quite 10 yards. I can’t miss a pop can at that distance. I even like the trigger, considering the price.

      At my doctor’s visit last week my systolic pressure was 160. I may soon have a multitude of smaller targets to shoot at. Shooting AND drugs. What better way to lower my blood pressure. Thanks for the report BG.

      • SL,
        That’s cool. The RR I mean, not the blood pressure — although the pill bottles make good targets. That’s a high number (160). At one point several years ago, I made the mistake of scheduling a doctor’s appointment after a staff meeting, and the reading was something ridiculous like 300/150. I told the doctor (who seemed to want to keep me there) that it would be fine the next morning, and it was pretty reasonable because I hadn’t been to any meetings yet:). Years later, my blood pressure was constantly elevated (the effect of meetings is cumulative:)), but is nearly normal now thanks to BP medication. It makes a huge difference in how I feel. Whatever you do, don’t let it go unmonitored.

        • BG

          The key is to sleep through the meetings. That is what I do. No one else notices.

          Unless I have to speak, in which case I bring up the most difficult issues we are dealing with at the time. Then usually someone in management deftly takes the podium and changes the subject. Its a win/win.

          I very much appreciate all the advice you give to keep airgunning interesting. I do much of my shooting now from a seated crouched position rather than benched to keep it challenging.

      • Slinging Lead:
        We have a supermarket chain in the UK called ‘Asda’ which is now part of the ‘Wal-mart’empire.
        I bet your bottom dollar we still won’t get Red Ryders sold over here though 🙁

        • DaveUK

          Don’t be all down with your frowny faces and so forth. Even though I live in what many would consider a shooters paradise, my local Wal Marts have never even stocked .22 caliber pellets or anything high quality for that matter, and every single gun on the shelf is made in China.

          Meanwhile, in areas not easily accessible to Slinging Lead, Wal-Mart sells rifles, shotguns, Gamo Field Targets, and other things that cause serious pangs of jealousy to me. I even read that the oft maligned K-mart had a damn good deal on a Winchester branded Daisy that normally went for like $300, for only $40 or something ridiculous like that. Unfortunately the only K-Marts that carried these guns are nearly as inaccessible to me as they are to you.

          Did you ever carry any firearm as a Met policeman?

          • Slinging Lead:
            I myself was a Met Police Security officer(Civil staff)not a Police officer. Employed specifically to search dirty vehicles and smelly members of the public that came to visit the Houses of Parliament 🙂
            Plus we did the usual turn key stuff and pass office,plus jointly manned the control room and dished out the RT sets and torches.
            A Security officer couldn’t be trusted with a baton let alone a gun.lol
            There was when I was there(1991-98) about 150 cops,250 security bods and 30 fireman.
            All employed by the Met Police and permanently based at Parliament.
            Not one of us had a gun but relied on ‘Ranger units’.Armed fast response teams who patrolled the Westminster area.
            Things have changed since 9/11 I have heard.
            H&K carrying coppers in the building who know what they are doing and one tea break a day less 🙁
            I remember a visit to the Commons by President Clinton.
            Boy them Secret Service guys were impressive.God knows what they made of us 🙂

            • I’ve been to Westminster a lot more recently than that (last December), and I can tell you that things have changed a *lot*. Everybody you have to pass by on the way in has an H&K slung over the shoulder and a mean look on his face, a “make my day!” look. Some are even inside the building. The tunnel from Portcullis House is very well guarded too.

              These aren’t the old Bobbies in the funny hats any longer.

              On the other hand, I don’t think they check IDs as well as they could, and you can just walk through the “appointment line” w/o anybody verifying you’re on the list and have an appointment in the Houses.

              In contrast, I was at the White House on business 2 weeks ago. ID checking and appointment verification was very strict, and I had to submit date of birth and Social Security number in advance so they could run a name check before I arrived. But the overwhelming *visible* armed presence was very much more muted. I’m sure the guys with big guns were there, just not standing around outside where they could be shot first thing. I don’t think I should say more about security measures I saw at either place.

              • PZ:
                Yeh,it is a shame things had to change.
                The characters I worked with in the Police,security and Fire section at Parliament were great.
                we only knew each other mainly by first name and Shoulder number.
                I was Dave153.
                Also nicknames like,
                ‘Magic’,’Break dancer’,’Tanked up Tony’ and ‘Inspector Gadget’ to name but a few.
                On the window of our car search box we had a sticker which said, ‘Make your MP work,Don’t vote for him’ 🙂
                Good old days which I was lucky to see at least part of.
                Providing security at Parliament and no doubt your Congress, is a fine balancing act because our countries citizens have a right to access their elected representatives.
                From a pure security point of view.A bloody nightmare.

          • Slinging lead:
            The way things are going in Britain not even our gun shops will be selling guns.
            We have a chain of stores from somewhere in Europe called ‘Lidle’.
            It’s like a supermarket but every week they do some offer on a Bonkers item that you really never knew you needed.
            You want an outboard motor or mono cycle,how about a night vision monocular or mountaineering ice picks?
            I never know what I am getting off my parents at Christmas but you can bet it will have come from Lidle 🙂

            • DaveUK

              I need to find one of those Lidle stores. A monocycle fitted with an outboard motor would be just the thing for my late night mountain climbing excursions.

              • Slinging lead:
                Being a late night excursion you must buy the Lidle ‘night vision monocular’mate.
                Second row down,between the tinned fruit and Whale Harpoons 🙂

            • LIDL ,it is British who would say we have it here 🙂 (in Vukovar)!!!i always tought it was German like “Baumax” or “Bauhaus” or …most of the things over here-DAVE what kind of recoil have b-3 i meant to say is it strong or medium???On my 34 i have gamo 4×32 scope many say that is a garbage but it is cheap and on my gun works like a dream!

              • Ok,i just understood LIDLE is also German or Austrian,from Britain seems to me all we gonna get is law against airguns 😉 man i am struggling with english just to think there was the time when i was areally good 🙁

                • C-S:
                  The recoil on the B-3 is a little harsh and the pressed metal body acts like an acoustic guitar amplifying the sound when shooting.
                  What I have done before on a Military style springer with a plastic hollow body,is to cut and fill the cavity with cushion foam.
                  I will do it on the B-3 but have to watch the foam doesn’t snag on the anti bear trap mechanism.

                  Lidle could indeed be a German company.
                  Aldi is a Scandinavian equivalent we also have in Britain.
                  I think everyone including you guys in the USA know ‘Ikea’.
                  Hell is being in an Ikea store on a bank holiday 🙁

    • BG Farmer:
      What you say makes perfect sense especially for short range guys like myself.
      I see Scopes as also an aesthetic addition to a rifle.
      A break barrel springer with a wood stock is perfectly topped off with the addition of a scope and the removal of the fore sight.
      I love silencers but a bare barrel looks better on a conventional Air rifle I think.
      The deep sheen of the metal work and scope contrasting with the beautiful wood grain of the stock.
      I might even take it out and shoot it 🙂

      • Dave,
        Believe it or not, I feel the same way on some styles of rifles, within reason. I do see a lot of sporters burdened with obscenely huge scopes, though. No reason to ruin a little rimfire hunting rifle with a 50mm scope, for example, when a 2-7×28 would work just as well and look better also:).

        • BG Farmer:
          Yes,it is all about proportions.
          I have this ideal in my head inspired by the old Safari movies as to how a hunting rifle should look.
          The single shot bolt action with, by today’s standards, a relatively small scope.
          An air rifle with those properties looks fab to me 🙂

          I am not sure what wood they used on my B-3.
          It was either from the staff toilet door or the seat itself 🙂

  15. BB

    I notice that the rings in today’s test have only two screws per ring.

    BKL has 6 screws on the base, but only 2 per ring. I think if they go to a 4 screw per ring arrangement, it would work better. That seems to be the standard more or less for springer mounts. I noticed none of the BKL mounts on PAs site had a 4 screw per ring arrangement.

    At any rate, I like that the Leapers mount you helped design for the Diana rifles has the scope stop pin incorporated, even though it is completely redundant. It helps neurotic types like me to sleep easy. BKL could learn a thing or two from that.

  16. The recoil of the .177 Patriot seems a lot worse than my .25 Kodiak. I use a Hawke Airmax 3-9×40 and a Sportsmatch Dampa mount and have had no issues with scope creep, either the mount or the rings, and definitely no rearsight movement. I put this down to the same working parts having to move only a 7-10 grain pellets which provides no cushion to the piston head when it completes its travel on firing.

  17. On the subject of scopes, does anyone know the purpose of the four pieces of tape that come with the Air Force 4-16X50 scope? If they were double sided, they would make sense to me to fit inside the rings and hold the scope, but single-sided? The non-stick paper surface still seemed less slippery than the bare metal, so I stuck them in there, but it didn’t make sense to me.

    Edith, didn’t mean to increase your workload the other day. 🙂 I was asking about the similarity between Centerpoint and Leapers scopes and whether they have the same manufacturer since they share so many features. I seem to recall a discussion about this on the blog.

    Derrick38, great idea for the test. I would kick in for a bottle. 🙂

    Mr. B, yes, care is the word with holster drawing. B.B. has already weighed in with sage advice on the subject: He shot himself in the leg with an air pistol and suggested not doing it. Makes sense to me. My quickdrawing is only with dry firing. I’m also applying the martial arts principle which is to do endless repetitions at slow speed to build a reflex before applying speed. Properly done, the speed appears automatically. I think this is like the wisdom in shooting about “slow is fast; smooth is quick.” Anyway, I don’t plan to ever live fire with the holster draw.

    All, I just received my official NRA targets: 50 yard smallbore and 200 yard highpower (modified for 100 yards). (I’ll work up to the 1000 yard target modified for 100 yards which is all that’s available at the range.) I’m going to have my own private Olympics complete with my spotting scope (drop a tear aside at the cost). I’m surprised at the large size of the targets. The 10 ring on the 50 yard target is slightly under 2 MOA, and the x ring is slightly under 1 MOA. This doesn’t seem too overwhelming and would be a snap for Wayne. I guess the hard part is shooting from the various positions. Anyway, I’m all excited about measuring the effect of airgun training by the standard of firearms.


    • Matt

      “Anyway, I don’t plan to ever live fire with the holster draw.”

      You’ll never make sheriff of Frontier Village with that attitude.

      I hope you are having fun with both of your new toys.

  18. Slinging Lead, you’d never know I wasn’t sheriff with my poses in the mirror. 🙂

    All, I fooled around with an online calculator, violating some of its assumptions in the process and came out with the following data about shooting an 8.4 JSB pellet at a target 200 yards away. After dropping about 10 feet, it will impact with an energy of about 11 foot pounds which is almost 40 times what is necessary to break a bottle according to my estimate the other day. So, the thing can be done. The bottles were shattering in the YouTube video. As far as getting the pellet on target, that just depends on how many pellets….


    • Matt61,

      Are you sure about those figures? They sound a little off.

      I plugged some numbers into Chairgun, and in order to achieve a terminal energy of 11 FPE, a 0.177 8.4 grain JSB Exact (I used .033 BC) requires a muzzle velocity of 1550 FPS and a muzzle energy of almost 45 FPE. The total drop would be around 4 feet. At a more realistic 900 FPS MV, the same 8.4 grain Exact would yield a little over 4 FPE after 200 yards, and total drop would be around 11 feet. Again, these figures are Chairgun estimates.

      Also, I suspect it would take much more than .25 FPE to break a bottle with a lead pellet. I’m no physicist, so I can’t offer any cool formulas, but here’s some experimental data that I can pass on:

      A while back, I shot a window pane point blank (about 2″ from the muzzle) with my CO2 Crosman 357W using both 7.9g CP’s and 5.2g RWS HyperMAX (pointed, harder alloy). The CP’s gave me around 3.5 FPE while the RWS yielded around 3 FPE. In both cases, I ended up with nothing more than flat pellets.

      Since a window pane is flat (as opposed to convex) and much thinner than a glass bottle, I’d have to assume it would take significantly more force to break a bottle with a pellet than a window pane. In fact, I would be very surprised if I could break a glass bottle with my 15 FPE TX200, fired at a reasonable distance. Too close, and the pellet would just splatter, redistributing its energy. Too far away, and the terminal FPE would be overly reduced. Not dead center, and the pellet would glance off the curved surface. Have you ever thrown a bottle up in the air and had it bounce instead of breaking when it hit the ground? Those buggers are tough (assuming we’re talking about the same kinds of glasss bottles).

      Can you post a link to the video… I still haven’t seen it.

      – Orin

      • Orin,
        If this is true explain to me why when I accidentally knock a beer bottle off a two foot high coffee table onto a tile floor it shatters into a million pieces. A couple times it shattered on the second or third bounce, which would not have had the same velocity as the first bounce. Remember I said accidentally, the amount of alcohol consumed had nothing to do with it…oops there goes another one.

        • Chuck,

          Hmmm… curious, those bottles are. You know, anything is possible under certain levels of influence. 🙂 I would have to say tile floors are certainly less forgiving than lead pellets.

          Somebody on the Yellow today said his RWS 34P was putting holes in beer bottles (as opposed to shattering them) at 50 yards. Another person said “[the Remington Airmaster 77] would penetrate the glass and shatter it completely while the Crosman 1377 on max pump did not break the glass.”

          So there’s definitely a threshold, and glass bottles are obviously not as indestructible as I had suspected. I think this calls for some testing. What we really need is somebody who can weight-sort some pellets to minimize all the long-range simulation variables. Now where can we find somebody like that?

          I know, I know, you’ve only got 10 yards to work with. I’ve heard that excuse before! 🙂

          – Orin

          • Orin,
            10 yards might be enough to prove some point but I’m not sure I’d be able to get all the glass shards out of my carpeting. I’d love to experiment with beer bottles except for that. However, after 5 or 6 beers it’ll become someone else’s problem. 🙂

      • Orin, thanks for following up with Chairgun. No, I’m not at all sure about my numbers and they probably are way off. My cheapo online calculator said it only worked for weights down to 10 grains and I plugged in 8.4 anyway. 11 foot pounds sounds like a bit much for 200 yards. 4 foot pounds like you found is more likely. On the other hand, the energy estimate for bottle breaking seems pretty sound to me. Energy is equivalent to work which (for a constant force) is the product of the force times distance. Force in our case equals the weight of the bottle. Dropping the bottle onto the corner of a cinder block seems to physically simulate a pellet strike. The estimate seems like it would be in the ballpark. And anyway, supposing that 4 foot pounds is correct, it is still 8 times what is necessary to break a bottle whose breaking force is .25 ft pds. I have no explanation of why your pistol did not shatter the windowpane. Maybe it has to do with the materials of the windowpane; materials are a grossly simplified subject here I’ll admit. For example, one of those heavy wine jugs from the hardcore among you would produce different numbers. 🙂

        Anyway, I make no real defense of the results just the method as (from what I can tell) reasonably sound for a very rough approximation. 🙂


        • Matt,

          Ahhh, got it. .22 AA S410 XTRA. In one of the comments, the guy in the video mentioned MV was 280 meters/sec (around 920 FPS) with 16 grain JSB’s. I plugged these figures into Chairgun. Terminal energy at 200 yards is around 6.5 FPE with a terminal velocity of around 430 FPS and a total drop of just under 12′. That’s twice the FPE I was getting with my CO2 revolver! He also mentions it takes around 1 second for the bottle to explode after the shot. Chairgun estimates it at .978 seconds, so it would appear that the figures closely coincide. Your comment about the different compositions of the glass is something I didn’t even consider. However, I suspect the .25 FPE estimate of the amount of force required to break a bottle with a pellet is incorrect. Here’s why:

          In your Force calculation, I think the problem might be a bit of oversimplification. I had to do a little searching (like I said, I’m no physicist), but here is what I came up with…

          Force = Mass x Acceleration.
          Acceleration = Change in Velocity / Time
          Work = Force x Displacement (displacement being how far the object moves while Force is acting on it)

          Without going into too much detail, some things that jump out at me are…
          + The mass of a bottle is different than the mass of a pellet. In one scenario, the bottle is an accelerating projectile while in the other instance, the pellet is a decelerating projectile.
          + The terminal velocity of a falling bottle striking a brick would be different than the terminal velocity of the pellet striking the bottle (I’m mentioning velocities because they can be used to calculate acceleration for the Force formula). Also, the terminal velocity of the bottle would depend on the height it was dropped from, whereas the terminal velocity of the pellet remains a constant.
          + A falling bottle would not displace a stationary brick, but a moving pellet would definitely displace a free-standing bottle. Also, the bottle would displace the soft pellet alloy more than it would the hard corner of a brick. If displacement is a factor, even if the forces acting on the bottle were the same, the amount of Work required to break it would vary.

          Since there are so many different variables at play, I don’t think the bottle-striking-a-brick experiment could really be used to determine the force required to break the bottle with a pellet. At least not without some very complicated formulas. Where is Herb when you need him? 🙂

          – Orin

  19. I am wondering how Tom Gaylord is progressing. I see they have quit the daily updates but that Edith is still typing things for him and it seems that Mac is still doing the testing. I hope he is doing better, maybe in Rehab.

    Get well Tom!

    David Enoch

    • David,

      Tom is now home and will do the remainder of his recovery here. He still has a long slog ahead of him, but at least he’s home. A visiting nurse stops by every afternoon. He’s fed intravenously to give the hole in his pancreatic duct a chance to close up without having to do the work of digesting food.

      He’s mobile without any support, sounds like his old self, is in excellent humor and is quite thin. We’ll have to change his picture on Pyramyd AIR and the one posted on the podcast page.

      Next week, he’ll start typing out blog answers with his own 2 fingers.

      While he was here, Mac provided a lot of testing data that Tom will use for the next 2 weeks of blogs. Furthermore, Mac has volunteered to continue with the testing help now that he’s back home. Mac will test springers because Tom’s lost a lot of muscle over the past 2 months in the hospital. Tom will test CO2 and PCP guns. The first shipment has already been sent to Mac, who’s very excited about playing with airguns 🙂


      • Edith,

        That’s fantastic!!! Either I missed the post when he came home, or it just happened. You’re not keeping secrets, are you? 😉

        …typing out blog answers with his own 2 fingers. LOL. I always get a kick out of that visual of Tom hunt-and-pecking. Something about a (formerly) not-so-small gun- toting man, coming in all sweaty and dirty from the field, delicately two-fingering the keyboard. I know he could probably out-type me, but it still makes me smile.

        So when things are back to normal, what are you gonna do with all the extra time on your hands (when you’re only trying to squeeze 30 hours into a day instead of 36)?

        – Orin

      • Hi Edith, and Tom.
        It’s great to know Tom is home.
        I need to loose weight too but I think I will try a different means.
        Hey, I have already lost 10 pounds, so that is a start.
        Thanks to you and Mac for filling in.
        David Enoch

        • Dave’s right. We haven’t given Mac enough accolades for the bang up job he’s done working with Edith to save BB’s bacon.

          Good job Mac!!!! I respect your efforts and opinions and appreciate all the lead dust you’ve absorbed for us over the past few weeks (you know we’d all love to have had that job and lived your dream).


  20. This is just my opinion about scope slippage. Why not use “Hockey Tape”, I believe also referred to as friction tape. Instead of double-sided tape or rosin, etc.


    • rikib,

      I’ve used friction tape on my scope, and it has worked just fine. Of course, I’m shooting a home-tuned Ruger AirHawk, which probably doesn’t recoil nearly as much as the Patriot used in these tests. Previously, I used plain old electricians tape. It didn’t work out very well at all. The glue melted in hot weather and the vinyl cracked in cold weather.

  21. We use some high friction compounds at the bicycle shop to hold carbon fiber components like stems, handlebars and seatposts to keep them from slipping at relatively minimal clamping forces–that way the carbon parts don’t get crushed.

    Lots of good bike chops now carry “carbon assembly paste” which seems to be a powdered glass or some kind of silica in a thin, non-greasy paste-type carrier.

    This should work perfectly on scope to ring or mount to dovetail applications to stop slippage.

    I’ll even venture a very bold guess that this is exactly the same stuff AirForce is testing right now.


    review and buy:

  22. Well it’s the weekend so hopefully I’m allowed to go way off topic.
    Just received my new pro deep fryer this evening! DaveUK I’ll be getting a batch of fish & chips going soon, with malt vinegar and salt. I even have some newspaper ready to serve in. My Brit wife is preparing the chips & fish (nothing frozen). We even have a few Guiness to knock back, they may go first though!


    • rikib:
      Sounds good buddy 🙂
      Did you know that Curry is more popular in the UK than Fish&chips now?
      My mate Cliff reckons the best Curry is one that makes you sweat when you eat it:)
      Myself,I am a total lightweight in the hot curry eating stakes.

      • Wife loves making Curry, I like it hotter than her though. Clears your sinuses well. You do need a lot of air fresheners for the house after cooking though. I like mine with rice, wife prefers (pardon the spelling) pompodums I think you know what I mean.


        • rikib:
          I did a quick reference spelling check(looked at the take out menu in the Kitchen draw)It is spelt,’Popadom’.
          I like you version better though 🙂

  23. BB, Edith,

    Would you be interested in a blog on my FWB C62 CO2 Match Rifle and C20 CO2 Match Pistol.? These are the last of FWB’s carbon dioxide line, and are true tack drivers.

    I can take all the photos, but I don’t know the html or TEX codes to insert the pix into the column.

    You can respond off-list to me at peter.zimmerman@cox.net


    • pete zimmerman,

      That is a most gracious offer on your part to take the time and effort to do a blog on your FWB C62 CO2 Match Rifle and C20 CO2 Match Pistol. Yes please and thank you cause we are definitley interested.

      Mr B.

    • Chuck,

      Yes, for a few days now. I thought it was just my computer, so I didn’t mention it.

      IE says the feed contains errors and I’m not getting updated content upon a refresh. The last comment that came through successfully was Ryan’s statement about wishing all pellets were copper-plated (Umarex BB Speedloader article).

      I have Windows and IE automatic updates turned off, so this can’t be something that occurred as a result of an update. Also, I had not made any changes to the RSS feed settings when the problem first manifested, and have not been able to fix the problem since by fiddling with the settings. After multiple deletions of temp files/cookies/history and computer/network reboots, the issue still persists. Yet it’s acting more like an Internet Explorer problem and less like it’s web page-related.

      I switched over to Google Reader, and everything comes through just fine, so the RSS feed is obviously updating itself. Is this similar to what you’re experiencing?

      – Orin

      • Orin,
        I’m using Firefox and getting the same results as you so the problem is not with your IE8. It’s something in the default “Comments RSS” feed reader whatever that is.

        I too switched to Google Reader and it is working, I guess. I got some stuff but haven’t figured out how to manage it all yet. Must be a Google conspiracy 🙂 Maybe once I get caught up with the current comments in GR it’ll be manageable.

        • I’m having no issues with the comment feed. Are you aware that you can select the time period for which you want comments? I wonder if you have comments selected for a previous day. It’s possible you hit a series of keys accidentally and that changed the chosen download period without your knowledge. I’ve sometimes made keyboard commands through a typo and had no clue I was doing it until I noticed that something had changed.


          • Edith,

            It’s possible I inadvertently changed something, but for the life of me, I can’t figure out what it is or how to fix it. Here’s a screenshot of what I’m seeing with IE’s default RSS reader. The RSS Properties window is in the foreground (grayed out), and to the right of it is the Update Schedule Settings. Nothing seems amiss with any of the settings, as far as I can tell.

            Google Reader is still chugging away, so I guess I’ll stick with that for now.

            – Orin

            • Orin,
              When I try to use the default feed in Firefox I just get the subscribe window. when I try it in IE8 iget the following error message:

              Internet Explorer cannot display this feed

              This feed contains code errors.
              Go back to the previous page.

              More information

              Google’s reader still works fine but it’s probably next on a hacker’s list.


            • CJr,

              I’ve gone in and changed the ampersand to the word “and” in all instances of that comment. If this corrects the issue, let me know and I’ll make sure the programmer does something to avoid this issue in the future.


              • Edith/Cjr

                It is not just with IE8, although I haven’t gone back to IE8 since I started using Safari. The problem is noticeable on Outlook Express (need to find a Mac mail program 🙂 ) and has been for a long time, sorry I didn’t mention it earlier just thought it was no big deal. It presents itself with most special characters not just the “and” symbol.


    • Thanks for the link SlingingLead! That sure does look interesting. I love history channel. I don’t have cable though so I’ll see about watching it online.


  24. Edith,
    I don’t see any place to specify dates or times for RSS feeds. It was working fine last night and today I get nothing but the place to subscribe to a feed reader. I’ve tried refreshing and restarting but nothing helps. Google reader is working OK for now so I’ll keep using that. Too bad these things have to be so aggravating at times.

  25. Mr. Gaylord

    I just want to thank you for your wonderful Blog. I found it 6 months ago and have now read them all along with the podcasts. I started my airgunning a little late in life. The Beeman catalogs won me over and purchased a new Beeman C-1 in the early 80’s. My buddies thought I was crazy purchasing a BB gun for $140. I know you say don’t start off with a PCP. But my 2nd Airgun was the Marauder. All I can say is WOW. If you like accurate guns (and who doesn’t) they will put a smile on your face. My buddies still think I’m crazy. But my father has stopped telling my wife I’ll grow out of this gun thing (it has gotten worst in the 27 years of marriage, my wife just tells people there is worst things I could be doing). I knew I was in the right group when I read your wife’s blog (Gun guys like old tractors). I could talk all day about Guns and Tractors. I have about a million questions about airguns so I hope I don’t ask to many dumb questions. 1. Does the PCP fill hose have to be so short? could it be say 3 foot long. 2. How is the best way to rest you pcp while filling it? 3. Have you or anyone you know done any pellet swagging? I checked with corbin and the setup is about $400-$500. As picky as some guns are hate to spend the money and the pellets don’t shoot?

    • Speakski,

      B.B. just came back from the hospital and not quite up to typing answers to blog comments, but he told me to say the following:

      Welcome to the blog! The fill hose can be any length, but the reason people like them short is because you lose the high-pressure air inside the hose when you bleed the line when filling from a scuba tank. However, if you were to fill from a pump, a 3′ hose would take a lot more pump strokes and still you’d lose that air when you bleed the line. Using a micro-bore hose that’s very small can save a lot of this air. But generally speaking, 18″ is about the max length people feel comfortable with.

      I rest my PCPs lying on a gun bag on the floor or on the ground. I fill from a carbon fiber tank that has a stand that holds it horizontal. So, it’s very easy to connect to the PCP.

      Swaging pellets doesn’t offer any advantage in terms of accuracy or other performance. It also doesn’t really save much money because of the steps you have to go through to swage the pellet.


        • Ryan,

          You can cast pellets (melt lead, pour the molten stuff into a mold & cool it) or you can swage them (taking lead wire and forming them into pellets). If you’d like to read more about airgun projectiles, Dr. Beeman has written a lot about them. Click here to read his site. Scroll down on that page to read about swaging.

          The Air Venturi pellets/bullets sold by Pyramyd AIR are swaged, not cast.


          • Edith,

            Thank you for the answer. I thought it was something along those lines. Am I correct in assuming that most quality pellets are swaged? I know JSB’s are, and I’m not sure about H&N. They look like they have a different density material in the center. At least when I look at Field Target Trophies and Baracuda’s I see a different colored metal in the hollow end of the pellet. I’m not sure though, as I read that they use more than one die; different ones for the top, bottom and so on, depending on the pellet. Thanks for the link, I will read up on it.


            • Ryan,

              B.B. says this:

              Yes, you’re right, top-grade pellets are swaged. But the difference between their operation and something you’d buy from Corbin is the number of individual processes. Some of the top-grade pellets can require over a dozen separate processes, which means different dies and sometimes different machines. Home swaging just doesn’t have that capability.


              • Edith,

                That’s exactly what I was getting at. All those different dies are expensive, and would leave you with only one type of pellet. You could buy thousands of high grade pellets of different types for what it would cost to make a mediocre, single type of pellet at home.


    • speakski,
      Let me welcome you to the blog also. I agree with BB/Edith about the air loss. I am assuming you are using a hand pump on your Marauder, etc. The effect of wasted air for you, in this case, is inconsequential except as BB/Edith pointed out, you wasted a lot of pumping effort that gets bled away when you disconnect because of the air remaining in the hose.

      I use a scuba tank for my Marauder and I can see the air that would be wasted from my tank by a longer hose after a bleed. I have wished for a longer hose myself because it would be easier to manage the placement of the rifle during the fill but I’d get fewer fills from the tank.

      On the other hand, I can hold the rifle in one hand and connect it with the other with the Foster quick disconnect adapter easily. This way I can hold the rifle upside down in the one hand and see the gauge while I open the scuba valve with the other. If the hose was longer I’d be farther away from the gun and I probably wouldn’t be able to see the gauge on the gun during fill.

      Now if the longer hose was made with a smaller diameter to compensate for the extra length that would be great, but then my shorter hose could have a smaller diameter too and I save even more air from the tank. Can’t win this one 🙂


      • Orin,
        Google reader appears to be working fine for me now, also. IE8 is still getting the error message. Is anyone else out there having problems using IE8? I still can’t get at the blog comments using Live Bookmarks, either.

        • CJr,

          If only 1 or 2 people are getting this error, then I suspect it might be computer-related rather than blog-related. Nevertheless, I have forwarded your comments to Pyramyd AIR.


  26. Have no problem with GOOGLE or FIREFOX!Does it means that swaged pellets are more suitable for scoped gun becouse my slavia doesn t make any difference ,but scoped diana “cant stand” some pellets and adores some?!

  27. B.B.,

    What do you like better today in .177, a Weihrauch HW77K or AA TX200 MkIII? I’m concerned that Slinging Lead experienced problems with his TX200 recently.


    • AlanL

      My problem with my TX200 was basically my fault. I had removed a little rubber pad from the barrel shroud and plugged the hole with a set screw. I made the mistake of adjusting the screw AFTER I loctited it. It worked it’s way up into the path of the pellet. Talk about fliers!

      As you are well aware, the TX, HW77 and HW97 are all kissin’ cousins. The design, accuracy, fit and finish, and expense of all these are comparable, so it comes down to personal preference or cosmetics.

  28. speakski,

    Welcome to what we hope becomes part of your daily routine. There are alot of very knowledgable, friendly, talented, helpful people here waiting to converse with you.


    I cann’t speak for B.B., but check out his review of the TX2000MkIII on PA’s site and look it up in the old blog’s search engine. He called it the most accurate springer under $3000.00

    Mr B.

  29. When they say every gun shoots different with different pellets, do they mean 2 guns of the same model have different results with the same pellet? Thanks


  30. Orin/Edith,
    Edith, I got your comment about changing the errored comment at 1:33pm. Since then I got one from Orin at 1:33 about how Google is working for him, then I got one from Orin at 3:14pm with no body just the header of “IZH MP655 BB and pellet pistol – Part 2 by Orin, then I got one from AlanL at 3:14pm about the TX200, then one from Mr B at 4:32 about welcoming Speakski and that’s all. Does that sound like I got everything since Edith’s comment? The one from Orin, with no actual comment only the header, is confusing.


    • Chuck,

      I have no idea what that blank comment was from me… unless my toddler son was pushing buttons on my laptop again. Wait a minute – maybe he killed my RSS… 🙂

      Speaking of which, everything seems to be fixed now. I just updated the RSS comments and they are displaying perfectly. I had refreshed them multiple times throughout the day, but I kept getting the same error. Probably because of your counterproductive efforts to help fix the problem. 🙂 Just kidding. Thanks for pointing everyone in the right direction to get it resolved.

      – Orin

      • Orin,
        Thanks for using the word “pointing” about my efforts. To me it felt more like thrashing.

        It appears that I am being flooded with current comments now. What ever gremlins got in there over the weekend have gone on to the next unsuspecting blog server.

    • CJr,

      Comments show up right away for me.

      Pyramyd AIR asked me to delete the comments you made that cited the errors because you were making them happen all over again by quoting the error!

      Hopefully, they’ll take a look at the html conversion issue on Monday.


  31. That makes me feel better to know the problem is repeatable. I apologize for propagating it.

    I’m not getting comments immediately. My test took more than 5 minutes. I’ve tried clicking both the Firefox refresh arrow and the Google Reader refresh button and even shutting down the browser and restarting it. I’m pretty sure some of my comments have taken more that 10 minutes. I’ll check this one also. I’ve become such a complainer.


      • Chuck,

        Using the IE8 RSS reader, any comments I post come up immediately upon refreshing the page. Using Google Reader in IE8, comments take anywhere from a few seconds to – in a few rare instances – 10 minutes to display when refreshing the page.

        – Orin

        • Orin,
          I got the same results as you, on IE8 the feed refreshes immediately but it’s been 15 minutes and I’m still waiting for my last comment to appear in Google Reader. I don’t remember having this problem last week. Seems like the slow Google refresh started happening over the weekend.

  32. I am so confused. Many people say that spring guns a quieter than Co2 guns. I look at what pyramyd says for loudness, spring guns I see are rated at usually 3 medium or 4 medium-high. Then I look at the crosman 2260 and says 2 low-medium. Im looking at the gamo big cat and the crosman 2260 but I need it to be quiet because I can’t have it loud as a rimfire. Also those 2 are in my budget. As you can see, im new to the world of airgunning. I greatly appreciate everyone on this blog for the help.


    • George

      Tell us what you intend to do with this rifle and we can give you the best suggestions. Hunting? Target shooting? Tin can sniping? Also how far do you think you might be shooting and do you have a price range you must stick to?

      Low noise is obviously a priority for you. Some springers are much louder than others. Same thing with CO2 guns. It is hard to give good advice unless we know what else the rifle needs to do for you.

      • The goal is to get an air rifle that I intend to mainly plink in my backyard but I still need the power to get the squirrels that are becoming pest. Low noise will sure help because for one thing, I live in a populated area.

        • I forgot to mention I need to be able to get accuracy at distances of at least 20 yards. So thats why I’m looking at the crosman 2260 for the good price but Gamo Big Cat for more power, though more noise and that can lead to problems.

          • George,

            You didn’t say, or I missed, the distance at whhich you might be dispatching pest squirels. Anyway I’d say, and I’m ready for disagreement, if not more than twenty yards or however far you can do head shots, absolutly only head shots, I’d recommend the Air Venturi.
            Mr B.

  33. I too, along with others, have used a proprietary product to prevent scope movement within the rings. It’s called Rubber Cement.

    I have only used this with a RWS 34, but perhaps others may have used it with a more powerful springer.

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    Shop and purchase with confidence knowing that all of our air guns (except airsoft) are protected by a minimum 1-year manufacturer's warranty from the date of purchase unless otherwise noted on the product page.

    A warranty is provided by each manufacturer to ensure that your product is free of defect in both materials and workmanship.

    View Warranty Details

  • Exchanges / Refunds

    Didn't get what you wanted or have a problem? We understand that sometimes things aren't right and our team is serious about resolving these issues quickly. We can often help you fix small to medium issues over the phone or email.

    If you need to return an item please read our return policy.

    Learn About Returns

Get FREE shipping on qualifying orders! Any order $150+ with a shipping address in the contiguous US will receive the option for free ground shipping on items sold & shipped by Pyramyd AIR during checkout. Certain restrictions apply.

Free shipping may not be combined with a coupon unless stated otherwise.

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