by Tom Gaylord, a.k.a. B.B. Pelletier
Blog reader Kevin asked me this question recently, and I embraced it because I usually don’t even have time to think about which airgun I would prefer to shoot. There’s always another blog, a feature article and 5 other deadlines pressing on my time…so thinking like this is not a luxury. It’s a fantasy! Then, Kevin asked this question and “forced” me to stop and think about it for today’s report. Ahh! Happy Friday!
The first gun that pops into my head when I ask this question is the Diana model 27 rifle. It’s just such a simple, uncomplicated airgun that I guess it serves as my happy place. But as I think about it, other guns pop up. The Air Venturi Bronco, the Falke model 70, the Diana model 25 are 3 more that come to mind immediately. They all share the model 27’s chief attribute — ease of operation. In short, they’re all fun airguns.
Diana’s model 27 breakbarrel is so light, smooth and easy to operate that it epitomizes everything that’s good about airgunning in my eyes.
Falke model 70 is another vintage breakbarrel that’s light and smooth like the Diana 27.
To take the fantasy a little farther, have these guns always been the ones that do that, or have there been others? Yes! There have been others!
My straight-grip Webley Senior pistol is exactly like the Diana 27 in this respect. It’s small and easy to operate. I still own this pistol, although there’s seldom any time to actually shoot it. But it’s right there in the drawer where I can put my hands on it whenever I want. I guess that’s good enough. I guess it will have to be.
I’ve owned this straight-grip Webley Senior since the early 1970s. It’s easy to cock, has a nice trigger and is fun to shoot. Not terribly accurate, but it’s one of those rare guns I let slip by because everything else works so well.
When I think a little longer and harder, my Beeman R8 pops into view. It comes in later because it has a scope, and scopes do complicate things. So do target sights, but my Walther LGV Olympia 10-meter target rifle now comes to light. And with it comes the new .22-caliber LGV. The target rifle took longer to pop up because it’s a heavy gun. The .22 took longer because of its power. When I want to play, power is the farthest thing from my mind.
Firearms?
Kevin didn’t ask me what my favorite firearms were; but since this is Friday, I’ll take a little license and include them, as well. Right now, my new PO8 Luger is a favorite because it’s accurate, recoils very little and it eats my handloads like they were candy! And when I think of that gun, I cannot overlook my Ruger Single-Six in .32 H&R Magnum. It has great power and almost no recoil. For cutting out the center of a bullseye, that little Ruger wheelgun is a dream.
The Ruger Single Six is chambered for the .32 H&R Magnum. It’s light, yet very powerful and will out-penetrate a .357 Magnum on a steel target. The 1917 Luger is such a smooth shooter that it’s like eating peanuts — I can’t stop! Both guns are very accurate.
Then, I think of my O3A3 Springfield. It’s one of the few military rifles that gives me an honest sub 2-inch group at 100 yards. If it didn’t recoil so much, I’m sure it would have popped up even sooner.
This O3A3 Springfield will smack you with recoil when you’re shooting full-house loads. The short stock gives it a running start at your shoulder. But the accuracy is stunning!
My M1 Carbine is also a favorite — not for its accuracy, which is just average — but for the fact that it drops the empty cases on top of the shooting bench! Most autoloaders throw their cases a country mile, but this little sweetie piles them up for me. With more training, I’m sure I can get it to put them back in the box!
My M1 Carbine is well-behaved. Next, I’m going to teach it to put the fired cases back into the box!
Guns I wish I still had
Now comes the Great Lament — the ones that got away! I had a Bernardelli Baby in .25 ACP that would put 3 shots into the bottom of a soda can offhand at 30 feet. Most .25s are lucky to hit dinner plates at that distance, but this little pistol was a good one. I let it get away. I recently bought another Bernardelli Baby in the hopes of doing the same thing. Alas, this one is a dinner-plate special.
Ruger .44 Magnum Blackhawk with 10-inch barrel
They’re very collectible now; but when I had my 3-screw Ruger Blackhawk, they were just good guns. I was too stupid to know that the one I had was an exceptional shooter. I figured I could always get another one.
Custom .458 Winchester Magnum
I have written about this rifle many times. I shot it with a 550-grain cast lead bullet, and it would put 10 shots into less than 2 inches (outside measurement) at 100 yards. It was like owning a target-grade 45/70. Stupid me — I thought I would always be able to find another one just as good. Haven’t yet!
What kind of shooting do I like to do?
I’m pretty easy to please. I like whatever kind of shooting I happen to be doing at the time — usually. The things I hate are magnum spring rifles that buzz like bottles of hornets, slap me in the face and have no accuracy. I also disdain black rifles that can’t group in less than 3 inches at 100 yards. In fact, I dislike almost anything that isn’t accurate.
I enjoy shooting a .45 Colt Single Action Army with accurate loads and feeling the plow-grip roll in my hand during recoil. I like shooting a nice 1911 and feeling the slight burp of recoil when I hold my thumb over the manual safety. I shot a Walther P38 recently that had a nice trigger and is very accurate. My experiences with P38s aren’t that good, but this one was memorable. I could burn up a lot of 9mm ammo in that one.
When I came home from the hospital several years ago, I received this Single Action Army as a gift from the readers of this blog. It is a favorite of mine because it mimics the feel of a Gen 1 Colt perfectly!
Same for the PO8 I got for Christmas. The ergonomics are legendary and the trigger is extremely good for a Luger (their trigger linkages usually make for poor triggers). My handloads are moderate enough that I can shoot this pistol for the rest of my life and not put any wear on it!
I enjoy holding a 10 with a target air pistol and seeing the pellet hit the pinwheel. I love seeing 10 shots from an accurate rifle sail through the same hole at 100 yards, knowing the hole they made is smaller than half an inch. I love shooting 5 shots from a 10-meter rifle and seeing a group smaller than a tenth of an inch.
Holding a 10 with a pistol is very enjoyable!
I love shooting my Daisy Avanti Champion 499 offhand and making quarter-inch groups. My shooting buddy Otho bought one for himself this past December and has been doing the same thing ever since.
I enjoy shooting a Garand and hearing the shot go off but not feeling the recoil. I know it’s there, but the push is so slow that it doesn’t seem to count. The same holds true for my .357 Magnum Desert Eagle. It’s got enough power to drop a steer, but the soft recoil feels like a 1911 shooting +P ammo.
Best of all
But the thing I like above all is when I solve some problem of inaccuracy and turn a bad gun into a real shooter. It doesn’t happen as often as I’d like, but from time to time I do hit one out of the park. I’m hoping to do that with my Ballard someday. And maybe my Meteor, as well.
B.B.,
Thanks for your willingness to pull back the curtain.
Very insightful but more importantly brought a smile to my face.
The Luger was a surprise for me.
Yep, you’re a shooter. Unfortunate that you just don’t have much time to enjoy the guns that you’ve spent so much effort to find and spent so many years to learn why to appreciate them.
kevin
LOL! Well, you certainly have created yourself the perfect job!
Do not lament the toys that have been handed on to others. I am sure many of them are appreciated by those who are playing with them at the moment. I myself play with my toys for a season and then hand them on to others in the hope they enjoy them as much as I did.
If asked the above question, as of right now it would be my BSA or my Izzy.
Izzy huh? What sort of Izzy? 🙂
Matt61
BB
All cool guns.
But don’t you shoot other things beside paper targets? Haven’t you at some point in time in your life just picked up a gun and picked something out like a leaf on the ground, or stick or a corn cob laying in the farm field? And just start plinking at it.
Do you have any shooting competitions with your buddy Otho for fun. Not blog related. Like say maybe you were testing a gun and somebody says I can get 10 shots closer to the bull than you.
Or what about have people over for a day of shooting. Like a BBQ or something with your shooting buddy’s and their family’s and they bring some guns over and you all get to have some fun shooting at different objects.
I would say you have the best job that somebody could want. And you just talked about the guns you like. But do you get to enjoy them and get a chance to shoot them other ways than at paper targets?
I bet a lot of people have their own little different ways they like to shoot. I think it would be cool to know. Maybe there is some other kinds of things people have fun with when they shoot that I would like to know about and try. Me and my buddies and my brother and their family’s and my kids and wife all have had some good fun shooting at different objects. In other words just plinking and being together. Or just a few hours of a day of peacefully shooting somewhere with nobody around. Just you and your favorite gun for the day.
Did you do that when you were a kid BB or as you grew up? Just pick up a gun and plink on a nice warm summer day when the temperature was just right. And that was all that was on your mind with no deadlines or other responsibility’s to worry about. I remember those days. A little harder for me to do now also. But it does make me feel good when I can get out there and relax and not have to deal with the other things that are going on in life. The way I see it is if I cant have fun doing something I need to figure out why. Otherwise why am I involved in that activity. Got to have fun; that’s just all there is to it.
Sorry about going on but I’m sure everybody has there special times that they remember that brought them to the spot were they are today involving guns. And BB not directed at you just talking in general. Well ok BB some things directed at you. 🙂 Sorry.
GF1,
Oh, joy!
Another blog!
Thanks,
B.B.
Well at least we can say T.G.I.F. And Valentines Day at that.
I got to go get my wife and daughters something or will be in big trouble. It will be no gun stuff for me if you know what I mean.
Gunfun1,
I’m tired of fake holidays. Some time ago, I told Tom to forget Valentine’s Day cards & gifts. It’s a commercial holiday and nothing more. We observe days that are meaningful and that are a celebration of real events. It’s a relief to not have to be dragged into the silliness pushed by retailers for the strict purpose of spending money.
Edith
Edith
I got to answer this carefully. My wife and daughters take a peek at the blogs so I could get myself in serious trouble here. But all I can say is good for you and Tom. Another great thing about you two as a couple to be able to agree on the things you do. That to me is a successful marriage. And alot of people ain’t as blessed with a relationship as you two are. If more people could communicate and agree like that. There would be alot more successful marriages. But even if you don’t celebrate the holiday. Happy Valentines Day anyway. 🙂
Edith,
if you and Tom ever part ways, please give me a call. My domestic situation is if I neglect to buy my wife a card to go with ANY gift or holiday, well all I can say is I’m glad she doesn’t have an affinity for arms – knives or guns. Or paintball guns – for that matter. 😉
Fred DPRoNJ
Fred DPRoNJ,
A few years ago, Tom’s oldest sister called to wish us a happy anniversary. We’d completely forgotten it! We both laughed about that 🙂
Valentine’s Day…Isn’t it better to have someone show you that you’re loved by taking care of you when you need it the most and not because some retailer declared it a holiday?
Edith
Fred,
Am I lucky, or what?
B.B.
No, sir. I’m a firm believer that we make our own luck.
We don’t celebrate valentines day either, mostly because it’s pointless and our anniversary is 2 weeks later… I forgot about it 3 years ago and I got to hear about it for a few weeks, then 2 years ago SHE forgot about it, hehehe I wasn’t letting it slip either LOL but last year we BOTH forgot! That one we got a good laugh about.
J-F
Surely you don’t object to the principle even if the execution can be a little trashy!
Matt61
Many moons ago, if my father and I did not hunt, there would be no meat on the table. I no longer need to hunt, so now I mostly punch little holes in paper. Sometimes when my son-in-law comes over we will kill a horde of feral soda cans.
RR
It was exactly like that for me also. I hunted quite a bit when I was young. Deer, squirrel, rabbit and quail. And fished alot. Mostly Crappie and Bluegill. That is how we ate also when I was younger. Now about all I do hunting wise is squirrel every once on a while. But I do still try to get some fishing in for the Crappie and Bluegill. But we do have alot of wild turkeys (and I don’t mean the drink) in or area so I have been thinking about giving turkey hunting a try. Never done that but have always wanted to.
I’m about 50/50 on paper punching and plinking now. But I will have to say that the airsoft guns have been kind of fun. I shoot the pistol and rifle in the back family room in the house pretty much now. Kind of gave up on the rapid fire airsoft thing in the basement though. To hard to keep the airsoft balls from going all over the place. So the airsoft stuff is still something that is keeping me excited right now. And my daughters come in and ask if they can have a turn with the airsoft gun. It has definitely made it more convenient to shoot.
If I felt like hunting anymore all I would have to do is step out on my front porch and have my choice of dove, rabbit, squirrel, turkey, deer and even the occasional bear.
RR
I’m the same way in my back yard. But we don’t have bears where I live.
The woods start right at the back corner of my yard. I have a little spot cleared and we feed the deer. Almost every day they will come to eat. And there is some apple trees close by that they come to eat from in the summer time and the creek is close by also so they go there to drink.
I really have no desire to hunt anymore. We enjoy the songbirds and the humming birds in the summer time. About the only thing I will do is try to discourage the starlings. They tend to be a problem. And they chase the other birds away that we feed. And about turkey hunting. Its just something that ain’t on the top of my list anymore. Although my oldest daughter that likes to shoot the bow and arrow has asked me about turkey hunting. So that’s kind of how that evolved. And only turkey hunting is what she has asked about. So I probably should so she could have the experience.
I read that Annie Oakley’s first shot ever was taking a rifle off the wall at some ridiculously young age and blowing a squirrel’s head off with no training whatsoever. Maybe some people are born to hunt.
Matt61
Matt
You are right about that.
I saw some guys grilling burgers behind the firing line at the range I go to. I don’t know. I can’t help but think lead dust.
Matt61
Matt
Don’t worry about the lead dust. Its the grease that will kill ya. 😉
There used to be an indoor shooting range in Sumner, Washington, and they also sold guns. I got to know the folks there pretty well. One day I saw a well used Colt revolver in .38 Special with a 4″ barrel. A previous owner had someone mill out the top of the frame and install a scope mount and a Burris handgun scope. I thought , why would anyone scope a .38 Special with a r4′ barrel. I asked Milt, who worked there, if I could try that thing out at the range. I did, and I bought that gun that day. That was when I learned that barrel length, as far as accuracy goes, isn’t always a factor. I took it to the Paul Bunyan Club, where I was a member, and used the 5 yard handgun range, and took a bunch of my favorite handloads to try. That gun was designed as a police sidearm with fixed sights. With the scope, and my favorite creampuff target load, I could get half inch groups from a rest at 5 yards easily. A Hornady 148 grain hollow base wadcutter behind a moderate (can’t remember the exact charge) charge of Bullseye powder was a total tack driving setup. I had a lot of fun with that old Colt for years. Later, I gave it to my dad. I had removed the scope and mount, and the extra wide milled out area helped him get a good sight picture with his aging eyesight. He passed in 1996. I had even tried some NRA Hunter Pistol with that Colt, but that load was not practical shooting at 100 meters. But it sure was a blast on the chicken and pig targets at 5 and 50 meters.
Sorry, that should have been twenty five and fifty meters. My number two key quit working.
Jon,
That’s a cool story that I appreciate!
B.B.
Growing up guns were a big no-no in my house. My mother hated them. So i learned how to use them in cub-boyscouts. A good friend of mine to this day stayed with his grandparents, who live two minutes away and when ever his grandmother was out of the house his grandpa would let us shoot the bb gun in attic or basement depending on what projects he had going on. This guy(my friends grandfather) was a real character. He had served in three branches of the military and saw time in korea and vietnam and wasn’t shy about it. He got to keep his military issued sawed off shotgun, M-1 and m-16. He also had a double barrel shotgun from the turn of the century, and tommy gun as well. From time to time he would take them out and let us handle them, usually with a war story or two to go along with whatever service rifle was in one of our hands. Anyways that’s how i got the shooting bug. Of course I’ve only owned a couple pellet rifle since then, but it’s not all about having the best gun for me. So long as the rifle/pistol is reasonably accurate for the shooting i enjoy it doesn’t have to be top shelf.
As for other than paper targets i like the spinner set i picket up and shooting pine cones off of branches. Also in the woods behind my house i have ‘hidden’ 4 inch square steel plate and lengths of 1 inch aluminum pipe targets hung in various places/elevations just for fun. At another friends house when the weather and time permits I’ll go over there after work and sit on the deck with him passing the pellet rifle back and forth shooting at dead lighters, nip bottle, and one of my favorites is shooting pennies out of arrow nocks at 10-15 meters without hitting the nock.
I hope this hasn’t bored ya too much but it’s really all i have to share.
John E.,
Another cool story. I wish I had known someone like your friend’s grandfather when I was young!
B.B.
Thank you and yeah, we was something else. Not afraid to speak his mind or piss of the neighbors if he felt he was in the right(of course he made sure that most of the time he was). 😉
I also hate magnum springers, I just don’t know what you’re supposed to do with them. I certainly don’t enjoy shooting them!
One of my favorite is right along yours, it’s my small Slavia 618. It can be shot all day long and it’s accurate too!
I was surprised that you didn’t put one single PCP on the list.
I also like my CO2 pistols and other BB guns. I have my more accurate guns but I think I’m just more of plinker. I shoot more for fun than anything else.
J-F
Have to disagree with you on this one, against my own expectations. I love my IZH 61 as much as the next. But I must admit there is something to shooting my B30 even at 50 yards. The extra power seems to translate into flat shooting and accuracy. It is slightly more accurate than the IZH 61 even with a heavier weight and standing. The satisfaction is akin to what I get with my 70lb. longbow compared to my 30lb. recurve. Buzzy springers are no good. But if properly tuned, there is something to be said for power.
Matt61
Hey I never said you were wrong to like them! I just don’t know what to do with them. The effort to cock them, the buzz, the noise, the recoil all to get a few more yards… I just don’t see the point to them personnaly.
Maybe if I had the range to shoot them at home I’d get to like them?
I don’t have a lot of time so I have to squeeze shooting between other things so it’s much easier at home where I can get maybe 50 feet at most so there’s just no point to them “for me”.
J-F
This may be a bit off topic but does anyone know if bb’s and pellets are still sold at hardware stores? It was the only place i could buy them without my mother finding out when i was growing up.
They are at the hardware store near my house.
Nice to hear. I’ll check the small outdoors/camping section in the one near me next time I’m there.
Great Friday blog!
I think what I appreciate most about your work is that your idea of accuracy mirrors mine, although I’ll never be half the shooter you are. (my wobble area is the size of Nebraska) Being a die hard gun nut I suscribe to all the big gun rags, spend hours reading reviews, watching gun shows, etc., and what really gets my goat is a lot of guys testing guns will say things like they ‘put 5 in the black’, or consider 10 into 4 inches tight enough to call a gun “accurate.” Or in a self-defense scenario, a double tap into center mass is “good shooting.” Makes me wonder if these guys are as sloppy in their other endeavors.
So, I shake my head, come here and marvel at your tiny little groups that can be covered by a gnats ass, and feel better.
It helps that you have good taste in firearms too. : )
Although, your fascination with springers I’ll never understand…guess it makes a difference if you can shoot ’em! Try as I might, (and I do force myself to practice) I just can not get the things to shoot consistently.
Btw, Cabelas of all places almost always carries P38s but I have yet to handle one that has a decent trigger or doesn’t have excessive slide-to-frame wear. I keep hoping though!
DD,
Yeah, I owned a P38 with a bad trigger and lots of slide slop. This one I refer to was seized from the commandant of a concentration camp. It was nickel plated (ugh!) but I’ll bet that was after the war. But, boy did it shoot.
B.B.
I love this type of blog.
I share your love of the Diana 27. The one thing I don’t like about it is that my middle finger on my trigger hand gets sore rubbing on the back of the trigger guard. I even sometimes try to use my middle finger on the trigger to avoid this. Another Diana I like is the older Diana 45. It is smooth with a great trigger and shoots great.
I like the sensation of holding the Beeman C1. I like that straight stock because it fits the way i shoot with a high elbow.
My favorite airgun is my old style BSA Supersport Lighting. I probably shoot it more than all my other airguns put together. I enjoy all the older Supersports and also a Superstar.
Someone mentioned the Slavia 618. I love those little rifles. They are fun plinkers. I have spent hours and hours shooting a little plastic bottle at about 25 yards that was hanging from a tree. I don’t fret when I miss and I smile with every hit. That’s complete stress relief for me.
My favorite airgun pistol at the moment is the Webley Tempest. It is fun to shoot this challenging pistol.
My favorite firearms include 70 series Colt Lightweight Commanders, the Star PD, and my Colt 22 conversion kit on a 70 series Colt Government Rifle. I haven’t shot any rifles enough to have strong opinions of them. I like the soft easy recoil of a Garand. I liked the accuracy I got with my HK91 but I sold that one.
Thanks for this blog,
David Enoch
All,
A few years ago, a friend and I organized a Shooters Holiday for friends, modeled after the Shooters Holiday started by John Taffin in the ’80s. Our goal was to have fun, get together with friends, encourage each others interest in the shooting sports, and encourage more friends to join us. It worked!
We get together annually for a weekend of fun shooting events limited only by imagination and safety. We recognize the top three shooters, but it’s all in good fun. We have a theme each year. Last year was a handgun and rifle of the same caliber. This year it’s “End of the World, bring anything you want to shoot.” Our event has grown each year. The Ladies, kids, dogs, food and campfire add much to our weekend of fun shooting. As a new airgun shooter, I think I’ll have an engagement this year where shooters use my air pistol and rifle, and learn how accurate, quiet and inexpensive airguns can be. As B.B. said, “When I want to play, power is the farthest thing from my mind.”
Time to get back to the reloading tools. One of our friends is rumored to be putting together an engagement where the winner will cut a cinder block in half in the least time. I’ll need plenty of ammo!
Have a good weekend,
RB
B.B. –
What an enjoyable read this morning! A few of your favorites are also mine. Others are so close that they might as well be the same. My first adult airgun was a Winchester 425, back in 1972. What a sweetie. Someday, I’ll own one again. I feel the same way that you do about my Springfield 03. Mine is a 2-groove, and shoots heavy cast lead bullets quite accurately without beating me up. My 1911 is from the Springfield Armory Custom Shop, and is the one gun that I take to the range every single time. However, the one that tickles me the most to shoot is my Swiss K-31. I can’t say enough good things about this rifle. If you’ve ever shot one, you’ll know what I mean. If not, I hope that someday you will get the chance.
It’s pretty often that I read your blog and see that you’ve shared the history and preferences of some old airgun or firearm. Thanks for sharing some of your own history and preferences today.
– Jim in KS
Jim,
I had a K-31 for several years. It was incredibly accurate and the trigger was to die for! But the short pull of the stock just beat me up too much. I finally got rid of it for that reason. But it was a fine shooter!
B.B.
Do you have trouble getting the exotic ammo for that rifle? I hear nothing but good things about the rifle, but besides the exotic ammo, it has another thing going against it in my mind. My military rifles are gateways to history where I can let the mind roam and imagine myself in all sorts of places without the consequences of actually being there. But for the K-31, thanks to Swiss neutrality, there really is no history.
Matt61
Matt,
There is plenty of Swiss surplus military ammo around, and it is very good. But I reload, so I don’t bother with such things.
B.B.
“… it serves as my happy place.”
my childhood Daisy 880 is my happy place rifle. It is about 40 years old now. Lost alot of power, and shine, but…so have I.
Sounds like fun BB! BTW, my Luger shoots cast bullets nicely. Yours should too. Wish we could head to the range1
Mike
Mike,
I’m shooting cast bullets in my Luger. I have a nice accurate load that cycles the action but isn’t excessive. I get about 4 inches at 15 yards at present.
B.B.
I’m new to this blog as a member but have been enjoying B.B.s’ stories and wisdom for about a year now. Really appreciate the time you put in and the responses everyone posts. About magnum springers, oh boy did I have a whapper with a Turkish made Walther Talon Magnum .22 that broke the s.b. with any pellet and shook like angry mating alligators! Lol the one that got away was not this unbearable creature but the illuminated Leapers i sold with it and since have not had the funds to buy any top notch scopes. As far as Bs time I think everyone here would allow your blog to be bi-weekly to give you some freed up time. Your articles are such conversation starters the members here could take the second day to comment and conversate. You’d be a little more “wizard of Oz” , but it would add to your being a legend!
RifledDNA,
Welcome to the blog!
I’m just complaining today. I learned in the Army that you have to let a soldier gripe if you want him to be happy. 😉
B.B.
Absolutely, but maybe you could tell that to my wife? Jk happy valentines!
I watched a video documentary on mating alligators, and they actually stroke each other with their little armored legs. Kind of cute….
Matt61
Hahaha,were they angry though? That makes a big difference
One thing I’ve noticed…no shotguns?
We received our first from Santa this year…a Baikal over/under.
So far we SUCK at clay shooting. It’s painful to say that the young one (10 years) hits more clays than either myself or his older brother.
But it is a whole other mindset shooting the thing.
Where-as shooting the Savage .22WMR at 200m is part skill and part science (things like scope choice and bedding and such)…shotgunning seems to be more of an ‘art’.
Still don’t know if I like it…but it goes BANG and that’s half the appeal 😉
cowboystar dad,
We have shotguns, but they’re for self-defense (and for trade goods if/when there’s an economic collapse and there’s nothing but chaos). I once shot one of our shotguns. Yikes! What incredible recoil. I wasn’t ready for it & have avoided them ever since.
I need to get out to the range and do some shooting, as it’s not good if a self-defense gun is unfamiliar to me when I really need it.
Edith
I don’t get all the comments about hard recoil on shotguns. I shot 2 a few years ago and didn’t notice anything unusual. If I remember right I was using buckshots and slugs in a 870 with a 18inch barrel.
Then again I don’t know much more but if a shotguns recoils more than other firearms I would probably enjoy them all a lot!
J-F
Did you have it fully shouldered?
Back in ~72 [10th grade] my brother and I received shotguns as, I think, birthday gifts… I had the opportunity to pick mine from the base rod&gun selection. 12ga 870 skeet model with Cutts Compensator. My brother had a 20ga… BUT, before this, we emptied a box of 12 ga through my father’s new Browning A-5 (the original version, not the modern remake). No recoil pad.
My brother fired it ONCE.
My father fired maybe 5-6…
I finished the box of shells.
Later that evening… I felt fine, my father was a bit tender, and my brother had a bruise.
My brother probably weighed as much as my father (I’m the older of the two of us) back then… 180lbs; I was around 120-130lbs.
I just flexed like a willow with the stock seated tight. My brother, I’m sure, had the stock a bit loose, so that rather than pushing him, it /hit/ him.
{We had super-8 footage of me firing the 870 — everything above my belt-line basically went out of frame from the recoil}
CSD,
Boy, am I glad that someone else beside me sucks at clays! I have to be the world’s worst shotgunner, and untrainable, by all accounts.
B.B.
What’s amazing is my 10 year old.
Both boys are involved in competitive archer. The 13 year old shoots both an Olympic style recurve and a target compound. Both are accessorized to the max…target sights, carbon fibre stabilizers…all the bells and whistles.
He stands on the line, draws the arrow, does his proper breathing and calmly releases.
The 10 year old on the other hand shoots a bare ‘stick’ bow. A wooden semi-recurve that looks like it should be in the hands of Robin Hood. He pulls an arrow from the quiver, draws and releases all in one smooth movement.
And the darn arrows hit the target (they both shoot indoors at 20yds) as if by magic.
It’s the same with pellet and powderburners.
Myself and the 13 year old both like to settle behind a scoped rifle, on a bench and try and hit the bull at 10m (pellet) or 100 and 200 yds (powder).
But the young guy just likes to bust clays…again seemingly by magic.
He just seems to have an innate ability to ‘point’ a gun rather than having to bother aiming.
Actually quite amazing to watch (yes…a little bragging here).
I wonder if there could be a practise in that? The intuitive shoulder and point and pull? Sometimes kids seem to simplify things and get them right. Sounds like a good drill, especially with a new gun, add the sighting in after and refine for quick draw in the field… Is this already a common exercise?
I’ve read about this (in fact I think by b.b. on this forum).
Back in the 60’s/70’s either the US Marines or Army used to shoot their troops intuitive shooting using Daisy BB guns that had the sights removed. If I’m not mistaken they were supposed to shoot some sort of clay target…and part of the regimen was learning to shoot from the hip.
Don’t now how successful it was or if they still do it.
CSD,
It was the Army. It was called Quick Kill and was modeled after the training that Lucky McDaniel developed.
It is not still done.
B.B.
Thanks for that answer, that was probably a day those guys could’ve had a laugh. Lot of ?flyers?. Anyway sorry to have gotten off topic cowboy, Im glad to hear your kids enjoy the shooting sports as much as we do andare natural talents, keep up the good work!
Cowboystar dad
I commend you on the decision to let your boys choose the style of shooting that suits them best. I have had to watch several promising junior boys and girls simply give up archery altogether, because their parents wanted their child to shoot with olympic style bows. It also makes me sad today to see our sedentary youth playing computer games all day. Where are the parents? You have given your boys the best gift a parent could offer. You are caring and involved, and you have every right to brag about their successes.
Ciao
Titus
Thanks for the comments Titus.
My boys started off with Olympic style recurves on the advice of a good friend who has become their archery instructor. As he said it was like learning to drive on a standard transmission…once you’ve become familiar with that you can drive anything.
But the older has an eye towards hunting and for Christmas this year wanted a compound bow. The younger reads…A LOT…things like the Hunger Gamers and Lord of the Rings. I think he gets up to the line with his stick bow and sees himself as one of the Knights of the Round Table 😉
And I completely agree with the sorry state of a lot of the parenting I see out there.
Today we have their archery lessons in the morning and then are heading out to the shooting range (firearms). When they get home they both want to work on the models they are building that they got for Christmas.
Tomorrow we are going to watch some ice racing at a local lake.
I’m sure they will get in some computer games somewhere, but no where near as many hours as some of their friends.
I don’t get it…why have kids if you’re just going to let a machine entertain and bring them up during the most formative years of their lives?
That’s right, and don’t forget to lead by example by having as much fun as the kids. My brother does this with his daughters. At DisneyWorld and swimming with the dolphins, he was having more fun than anyone else.
Matt61
CBSD
They tryed to get me to shoot shotguns when I was a kid. And I did. Quail hunting. And I always could get the birds down quicker then my brother and dad. Well most of the time.
We did little competitions and I can say this my dad could always out shoot me and my brother at the longer ranges. My brother was best with a pistol. But if it was quick acquisition of the target it was always me and I’m talking also with the most hits. Shotgun or whatever rifle I was shooting.
But if your youngest son (I hope your oldest son ain’t reading; I don’t want to offend him ) can shoot good by point and aim he has the one up on most people. He probably wont have to train as a hard as other people. Some people or natural like that. But on the other hand your other son will shine also.
It sounds just like my two girls. They will give me and my buddy’s and my brother also a run for our money when we shoot with them. Oh and it sounds like I left my brothers two daughters out. They are the same age as my two girls. They also like to shoot guns and bow and arrow also. So when we manage to get the time to be together we have some fun times going on. All I can say is have fun while you can. Time is ticking by.
Have you tried the Lucky McDaniel approach? You’re the one that introduced me to his book, and he makes it sound like anyone could do it. The only time that I’ve ever tried shooting clays was with a side by side black powder shotgun, and I scored two clean misses. On the other hand, I was trying to use the sights, not the Lucky McDaniel method, so the jury is out on that.
Matt61
B.B.,
Probably because you’re a pistol and rifleman at heart. You want to aim. Taking time to send a small projectile at a large target.
Shooting a shotgun is about pointing, not aiming, quick acquisition and slapping a trigger not squeezing. You’re sending a large target after a small projectile when shooting a shotgun. Complete opposite of shooting a rifle or pistol.
I’d have you busting clays in no time since you have the skill but just need to enter a slightly different dimension/perception.
Ah, but then you’d need to make room for shotguns in your safes. Could this be the real reason? LOL!
Kevin
BB, The .32 Ruger H&R mag is my favorite field gun for woods walking . It replaced my .22 RF/.22 Mag version for that role. Have you tried ,32 wadcutters in it for accuracy? I load mine in .32 S&W long cases.
Robert,
May God bless you! I acquired a 98-grain .32 caliber wadcutter mold to use in a 32/20 revolver. I never thought about using it in the Ruger. Right now I’m shooting 86-grain JHPs.
Isn’t this the nicest caliber you ever shot? I wish I had discovered this one years ago!
I like IMR 5744 in this cartridge. It burns so clean!
B.B.
BB, Yes, it is my favorite pistol cartridge and revolver. I had a Charter Arms revolver in .32 H&R Mag but found that the hotter loads caused the brass to stick to the chamber walls of the cylinders. I also have another Ruger SA in .32-20 with a .32 H&R cylinder to go with it , but it is a full size Blackhawk and it is H E A V Y! I have alot of old W231 which I load behind the wadcutters . I use a mild load of 2.0grs of that powder, and the swaged lead hollow base wadcutters for the most part, which I also have alot of. Been thinking seriously of getting a .327 DA Ruger. The .32-20 is a nice cartridge especially for rifles, but the brass is easy to damage while reloading . I’d imagine loading wadcutters into .32-20 brass would be problematic. By comparasion , the .32 mag brass is a joy to load with anything. I’ll have to try that IMR powder . Ammunition and componets can be impossible to find here in NY right now. We haven’t had .22 RF in stock at LGS’s or my local Walmart for over a year now. When you find RF ammo it comes repackaged in a baggie of 50 for $8 , and there is usually a limit or three bags, or boxes.
I thought Wulfraed was very down on the .32 caliber cartridge for self-defense purposes a few days ago and rated it lower than a .22 LR. My only knowledge of this is that isn’t James Bond’s Walther PPK a .32? And how do you get a Single Six in that caliber? I thought it was designed as a rimfire reproduction of the Colt Single Action Army.
Matt61
Matt,
Apples and applesauce, here. The Ruger Single Six, which was only chambered for the .22 LR and .22 Win. Mag cartridges previously, has now been chambered in the .32 H&R Magnum. A .32 H&R Magnum is to the .32 ACP James Bond used, as a Ford F-150 is to a Hot Wheels.
The Ruger, being as small as it is, accepts the powerful .32 H&R Magnum easily. The cartridge is very powerful, yet because the bullets are so light, doesn’t recoil much at all. It is the best handgun cartridge I have ever shot in that respect (power versus recoil).
B.B.
Matt61, there is more to shooting and having guns than for self defense use. Personally , I’m sick of the current trend that every discussion about firearms has to center on self defense or the”killing power” of a particular cartridge/ gun combination. Especially when it is discussed by folks who have never shot anything animate. I’ve had that Ruger .32 H&R mag since 1985 or so . When the .32 mag came out ,it was first chambered in the H&R DA revolver with a four inch heavy barrel , and adjustable sights. A little later, Ruger chambered their single six for it, then Charter Arms did in their undercover series, and four inch barrel models, and later Dan Wesson made their interchangable barrel model for it. As far as field use goes, I’ve found that the jacketed hollow points are as good as a .38 special as far as terminal performance on small game. The real plus is that you can shoot .32 S&W long target ammo in the gun and it is as accurate as any .38 special wadcutter target load and uses less powder and lead . Both the ammunition and the gun are also a good deal lighter to carry afield than alot of other revolvers . The .32 version of the single six is lighter than the .22 RF version ,because the holes in barrel and cylider are bigger. BTW, Mr. Flemings character James Bond actually used a .25 ACP in the begining. Berreta if I remember correctly…
B.B., I also love the Ruger .32 single six. Never owned one but shot my brother’s a lot. I did have a Bernardelli Model 80 in 22 LR that was unreal accurate. Can’t explain why, it just was. I understand what you mean by just holding certain guns. I something just pull out my Colt 22 lr Single Action or my Benjamin EB 22 just to hold them. Also love pulling out my first ever “bought new” bb gun, my 1976 Daisy Red Ryder. It brings back my youth. Something about them. One rifle I miss the most was an H&K 300 in 22 WMR. It was a semi auto 22 mag that got it right. Very accurate and never jammed. Thanks for sharing and bringing back some memories.
B.B., speaking of your Webley Senior, is that the gun that become or was used to base the Webley Tempest? I’ve always wanted a Tempest, but never got one. I guess I shy away because I read lots of reports where they are robust, but don’t seem that accurate. Just wondering. Thank You, Bradly
Bradly,
There were several Webley air pistols. The Marks I and II are the earliest, then came the Seniors that had a very long run. After them came the Premiers. The Premier was very much like the last Senior model. The Premier Mark II was a transition into what became the Tempest.
I have owned a Tempest briefly, but I do have a Hurricane that is very similar. Maybe some day I will review that gun for you.
B.B.
B.B.- I saw the video of you shooting the new NP2 and so I now have one on order! Could you please tell me what pellet you were using? Thank you.
fishcowboy,
Welcome to the blog!
That was at the Crosman booth on the range, so it had to be a Crosman pellet. Must have been something along the Premier line, I think.
You know, Crosman isn’t making the cardboard boxed Premiers anymore, so Premiers in a tin are all there is from now on. I can’t remember if that rifle was a .22 or not, but it seems like it was. All I know for certain is I am buying the one they send me to test!
B.B.
“Crosman isn’t making the cardboard boxed Premiers anymore” WHAT ?!?!?
/$%?&*()_)(*&?%$ WHY ? First the .22 caliber wadcutters in the blister packs now the premiers in the cardboard boxes! This sucks! These are my favorite .22 caliber pellets, I’m gonna have to go shopping to try and get my hands on everything I can!
They’re still showing up on their website so we may still be able to get them for a while.
J-F
BB
Please explain more if you can about this.
“You know, Crosman isn’t making the cardboard boxed Premiers anymore, so Premiers in a tin are all there is from now on”
I use the Premier heavy 10.5 grn. in .177 caliber and the 14.3 grn. Premiers in .22 caliber.
Are these the pellets you are talking about? And does that mean they wont be made with the separate dies? I’m worried now. I like my other pellets too like the JSB’s and H&N’s and RWS brands. So I’m not worried alot. But I have put faith in those cardboard box Premiers also. So I’m interested in knowing what is up if you have more info.
VF1,
It means just what I said. No more boxes and, tes, no more dies-sorted is what it means. Apparently not enough people cared about that and more cared about the price.
B.B.
BB
Well that’s a shame. I have went through and read some of the reviews people gave about those pellets on the PA site a while back. I don’t think some people realized what those pellets were. I thought so many times about leaving a reply to those people that wrote those reviews and didn’t understand what those pellets were about. But I just kept quiet. Hmm maybe I should of made a comment to those people.
Maybe I should send Crosman a friendly message to keep producing those pellets for the customers that really appreciate and know what those pellets are. Well maybe its to late already. But yep I’m going to write Crosman a little message.
I’m with GF1. Do you think there’s something that can/could be done to keep them producing these pellets? If they stop making the premiers in the carboard boxes all of the good pellets will come from Europe???
J-F
J-F
There goes one of my backup pellets. Guess I will have to make up some head size sorting tools to use with the tinned pellets in case there gets to be a shortage of European pellets.
twotalon
J-F
Seriously send Crosman a message saying what you think about it. Sometimes it helps.
I don’t think 24 emails will change much. I was thinking more like an online petition?
J-F
J-F
Seriously go to their website and leave a comment on their contact page. I doesn’t matter if it is only you or me that write and say something or a hundred thousand people. They WILL see the message. And just because it is only a few people that may actually write and say something. The message will be conveyed. And most of the smarter company’s know that a few people’s comments speak for the people that don’t want to comment for whatever reason it may be.
I have sent letters through out time to various suppliers of car manufacturers and after market parts and it does make a difference. I have seen it work on various occasions.
And if you do then you at least know you tried if you know what I mean. Sorry to be so forward and out spoken; but sometimes you got to do what you got to do. And it s not like you doing it for a wrong cause if you know what I mean.
I’ve written to companies before too. I think it can help when you have a complaint but when a company has made decision to stop making a product I think it needs more than just a few messages.
Maybe facebook would be a better option, maybe it would create more of a hype?
Tom do you know if they want to stop all production on all calibers and weight or just some calibers?
J-F
J-F
I haven’t really never complained to a company before about problems. But I have contacted them to give them something to think about if you will in making a product or to continue producing a product. The thing with Face book and such is that some people don’t like to be associated with Face book. And Also a online petition may make certain people shy away from responding that way. Individual response to the company’s contact line is the easiest way and confidential. If we flooded the company tomorrow with responses they would take notice. Other wise why would they get so many responses about the same thing all at once. They would know it is being talked about somewhere. Oh and by the way I did drop them a line already at their company contact page.
Have the big stores ever even carried boxed Premiers? I’ve never seen them at Wally World or Canadian Tire – just the tins. I’ve never even tried boxed Premiers because the only way to get them seems to be online – and at that point I end up just spending extra and getting H&N’s, JSB’s or RWS’s. Maybe they fall into a no-man’s land: too expensive for the box stores, not “high end” enough (regardless of actual performance) at the specialty stores.
I have never seen them at WalMart or the other stores that I remember anyway. They are a specialty pellet.
nowhere,
See below.
B.B.
I can get them at SAIL/LeBaron and other similar stores around here and CHEAP too! Close to the same price that can be found online, without the shipping.
J-F
Absolutely a wonderful subject for the weekend, BB, but what a tough question!!
Currently, I pick up my Walther LG55 more than anything. It feels right, has a set trigger, and puts pellets where I want them (at least as far as my ability allows…). Even with the super sticky brake grease that I used in the rebuild. I’m still going to clean it out before finishing part 2, but for now it’s too much fun to quit shooting! I never had a target peep on anything before and am amazed how much out has helped my off-hand accuracy!
For powder burners I think it’s really had to decide. I like them all! I really like the .44 mag Winchester 94 AE with its 16″ barrel. It wears a scope that its previous owner put on, but I’ve actually gotten used to that. Even the funky way it looks…
For pistols I like my Izh 46M. It gets almost as much use lately as the LG55.
For oddball stuff, I like the FNh PS90 and its pal the FiveseveN. I never thought of myself as being a bull-pup guy, but the PS90 just fits.
Just because these are what I pick up more often currently doesn’t mean I neglect any of my other toys… I even still shoot my TF99 and the Izh 513M.
For archery, it’s currently a Samick Journey recurve that I shoot as much as the weather will allow in the back yard. I have an old Golden Eagle Hunter compound too. I’m just having too much fun shooting instinctively to be bothered with the compound’s sights and such for now.
I guess I just like to shoot!
/Dave
I don’t know how my phone thinks a “nice” trigger is a “set” trigger….
/Dave
Maybe your phone is smarter than you think. 🙂
But yes I know what you mean. My phone drives me crazy sometimes. And I really hate when the message doesn’t go through. Or the message goes through multiple times because you don’t see it post.
Nothing like technology.
What about the airforce guns? They are exceptional for power, versatility, and accuracy. I noticed those fine guns didn’t make the cut. When I need an airgun I go for my condor. When I need a regular powder burner I reach for my AK47 or AR15 which I am customizing into a beautiful work of art that has a purpose. That is to remind everybody that the second amendment is an American right that politicians have no right to steal.
John
Did you see the little documentary about the AR-15 on tv tonight. They talked a bit about 3-D printing. It was a good show that covered different aspects about the gun. And all I can say is 3-D printing is cool stuff.
I didn’t watch it. I’m more interested in the Olympics. I use a kevlar polymer lower which is a nice strong product. Not really a printed lower but close enough. I noticed it was on NBC which usually puts a liberal fear spin on their gun specials so I elected to watch the Olympics which is more honest. I know the AR inside and out and I know it’s really not all that ferocious until you do something like put a .50 Beowulf upper on it which is a fairly harsh round to fire. Instead I’ll welcome and invite anybody that wishes to learn about them and fire my custom beauties. I’m pretty sure I could give more facts than NBC could give you and I’ll stick with facts and then let you decide if it’s worthy of being feared and banned.
John
Sounds to me like you seen it already.
All I can say is somebody is pulling the trigger. The gun doesnt magicaly point at something and shoot and hit that object. Notice I didnt say AR. Well you already know how some people could interpit that.
I just wanted bring up the point that the 3-D printing is cool technology.
I don’t need to watch their special to know what the agenda is. I see it every day. All the media outlets follow the same “Guns are evil so you should fear them and let politicians save you from them” lines.
3d printing is cool tech but I bet they didn’t tell you that the little 3d printers you can get can’t make a viable printed lower. After a few shots the lower from a home 3d unit will break apart in your hands.You need a much bigger much more expensive industrial 3 d printer to make a lower that will hold up. It’s far cheaper to pay $50 for an 80% polymer power and finish the fire control area with a dremel drill. Another $70 and you have a completed lower. From there you just need to build the caliber of upper you need and get the proper magazine and you have a non-registerable AR with no serial number. Before anybody gets on me for telling you this, it is 100% legal to build an gun with no serial number. The catch is you can never sell it or give it away, but you can will it to a relative.
Is that true? From what i understand that sounds like a zip gun or illegal manufacturing of a firearm, both no-nos whether you are legal to own firearms. Since every firearm needs a serial and is required to be registered isn’t this kind of production the stuff politicians are begging “gun nuts” to do to get a foothold against providing second amendment rights? Hmmmmmmmm…
That actually is true, RifledDNA. I see where you’re going with this, but currently you can legally manufacture your own guns as long as you don’t break any BATFE or NFA rules/regs, or your local laws. Like John said, you can’t transfer ownership until death and you can’t build them for sale or other distribution. Only for yourself.
/Dave
It’s 100% true. You can build your own AR15 from a 80% lower with no serial number and as long as you are building it ONLY for your use it is 100% legal to do under BATFE regulations. It’s not a zip gun which is something entirely different than an unserialized gun. The only time it becomes illegal (Other than our liberal masters who know nothing about guns saying it is illegal) is if you decide to sell it. If you sold it you’d be breaking commerce laws, not gun laws.
Obviously Im no law student, it was just thinking out loud, the 3D printing thing makes me nervous, it just sounds like trouble as far as people 1) distributing the things they’ve made 2) being hurt by the things they’ve made and 3) causing legal problems for gun ownership in general. Its good that if done responsibly firearm owners can be creative. I can not legally own any powder so excuse my ignorance, Im strictly ag.
No problem. I’m not a lawyer either but I do study up on things such as ATF rules concerning guns and such since this is my hobby. 3D printing is still in its infancy so not something I’d trust my body to when it comes to something like a gun. But they have made amazing progress with polymer lowers. I use those. They are much stronger than the standard aluminum, lighter, and much easier to work with. Too bad I can’t show off what I do here. I have a ball customizing my guns, both standard powder burner and air rifle. My AR makes it very clear that the second amendment says that the gun is a right that politicians have no right at all to regulate. It’s quite an amazing work of art. I’m working on another which is being built from all my cast off parts too. The AR is kind of like a Barbie for guys.
Thats cool where could we see this artwork? I always appreciate political statements in an artistic format
Uhm…
NBC is the network running the Olympics, so where would they have found time to fit some gun special?
NBC has several channels. That special was on CNBC running at the same time as the Olympics on NBC. It’s still the same network. Just running different programming.
with a house full of guns my first choice is my Diana 24 to-5, or my stoeger x5 both are simple,light,easy to handle and cock, pistols my 2240. pb hennery golden boy in 17hmr,then my h&r 1871 handi rifle in 22 hornet. pistols my high standard sport king and wheel guns my h&r 686 with the 22 rf cylinder. the 22 mag is a touch harsh for plinking to me.
B.B., remind me where you picked up the new Luger? Surely, they are not making new reproductions. I did read with interest that the Mauser factory recently started making 98 style rifles from the original drawings, but they cost thousands of dollars. That would be even more true of the Lugers. If your pistol is a vintage that would be even harder to get as I understand that they were scarce and prized even in WWII when Mausers were lying around for the taking. Wulfraed in response to your question of a little while ago, no, I’ve never held a Luger and have only a very hazy idea of their mechanism which you were comparing to the biathlon rifles. Here’s a factoid on the Luger. Apparently, the SS developed special molded holsters to protect them from dirt and keep them functioning. That doesn’t say a lot for the reliability of these guns but it does say a lot for whatever made them worth all this trouble.
I believe that your sub-2 minute Springfield would be MOA with a scope. I must say that I have not been particularly bothered by the recoil of my Mosin, Mauser or Lee-Enfield. Maybe the 30-06 cartridge has a little extra kick in combination with the stock design. But I would think that is easily fixable with a recoil pad. Glad to see the M1 Garand made the list! Interesting that no super high-end target rifles made your list.
Edith, time to pre-order your Iron Man suit here.
http://news.yahoo.com/military-39-39-iron-man-39-suit-may-141715486.html
But it remains to be tested, and we’ve seen how military tests go. The AR apparently beat the M14 in head to head testing when it was first introduced but was passed over. Then in combat it performed poorly–in part because of unwise modifications to the test model. But now experience seems to show that the early combat record was not an indicator either since the gun has excelled in all sorts of ways. Similarly, the M14 which did poorly in the original tests is now enjoying a resurgence and refuses to be displaced. As to armored suits, they already tried this with the OICW idea from around 2000. I think the idea was to build an all-purpose gun that was a smart grenade launcher and rifle and that it would be hooked up to a suit with armor and communication devices. But when they gave it to the 82nd Airborne to test, it was so heavy that the troopers would roll on their backs and find themselves stranded like turtles, waving their arms and legs. Heh heh. We’ll see if they have learned their lessons with the new suit.
Houston, we have a problem. Remember when we were bashing ignorant writers for their misinformation about guns? Well, what happens when one of our own is doing the same thing. This would be Stephen Hunter author of the Bob Lee Swagger series. Hunter is a long-time movie reviewer for the Washington Post, a really superb writer, and a gun enthusiast. But in his latest novel, he has the world’s best close-quarter battle team geared up for a mission, and he describes their equipment as follows. Ghillie suit, digital camo, watch cap or boonie hat, face paint, MK48 light machine gun with 100 round belt, M6 piston-driven AR from LWRC, Wilson CQB 1911, Randall knife, and 10 HK mags filled with 29 rounds each of 77gr. Blacks Hills ammo for the ARs. What’s that last item? I know that B.B. loads the 77 gr. bullets for his AR one at a time through the magazine well because they don’t fit in magazines, and I had heard that about other people who use this kind of bullet. So, how can you use them in a high capacity magazine?
There may be another error. In a different novel, there was an investigation into a shooting, and the case broke open when Bob Lee Swagger realized that the shooting was too good, something like .1 MOA, for whom it was attributed to. This kind of accuracy was produced by a kind of ballistic computer attached to the rifle scope of a kind that is not uncommon anymore. Trouble is, I don’t see how all that information will produce such perfect shooting unless something is done to affect the hold and the trigger control, something that is only possible with that smartscope that was discussed a few days ago. I don’t see that kind of shooting coming just from ballistic info.
On another subject, recently I was reading an lease document that mentioned storing combustibles. That would include gunpowder I suppose. What else would it include? Is it not true that extremely finely divided powder can cause explosions? This is based on having a larger surface area for interaction which speeds up chemical processes. That’s why gunpowder is compacted in granules the way it is to slow down the burn rate. But I seem to remember that if the substance is finely divided enough it can explode on its own without being what you would consider flammable. I seem to remember a case like this in some factory whose air was full suspended particles that had a huge explosion. But whether the substance was inherently combustible and the fine grains accelerated ignition or whether the substance was inert and the consistency made the explosion possible I don’t know. Would flour explode if it was ignited? As you can guess, I’m looking for some flexibility in the definition of “combustible.” 🙂
Matt61
Matt
If I remember right. A grain silo exploded and caught on fire in our area a few years back. Something about the fine dust in the air and the temperature. I may be wrong about the exact facts but that’s what I thought they said happened.
Well maybe somebody else knows more about if that could happen than me.
Now that I think about it; static electricity may of been part of the cause.
GF1,
Dust explosions were mandatory in 8th grade science class when I was in school. Put a candle under a 2-pound coffee can that has a small jar of flour in it. Then disperse the flour with a blast from a bicycle pump and the can explodes! Happens every time.
B.B.
BB
We didn’t get to do fun experiments when I was in 8th grade like that.
But on the other hand that is one of the reasons we keep the tool grinding room clean at work for just incase reasons.
Matt,
The Luger was a Christmas gift from Edith. I found it at a local gun show and was in negotiations for over a year.
B.B.
RifledDNA, I’d be happy to show it off, but this might not be the place to do so unless I could come up with some kind of educational value to go along with it. I’m just not quite sure I could pull that off.
Yes flower can and does explode. Look up grain elevator explosions.
Flowers are a tad difficult unless they put out a lot of pollen…
Flour, OTOH, is like practically all fine grain powders, and will burn explosively. I used to have a book of “science experiments” that included taking a cookie tin…
Drill a hole in the bottom to snuggly take a rubber hose.
Feed hose through hole and fit a funnel in the hose.
Fill funnel with flour
Stand a lit candle in the tin with the mouth of the funnel aimed at it
Snap on lid
Take end of hose, and [puff]
See the lid of the tin blow off.
TT
The big red hawk I talked about is back. It visited about a week ago. Then I saw it today again. And guess what; two of them perched in a big old Walnut tree over looking the open piece of ground before the woods start. I don’t recall seeing two together before. So that was cool.
And only a few flaps of the wings and they were just floating way above in circles. And they are big. They got to be 2ft. tall. And the other birds sure got quiet when they were around.
And the little gray hawk is still around. I thought I heard a squirrel up in the tree carrying on and I looked up and it was the gray hawk making calls to get the squirrels to come in. Its amazing what nature will alert you to. But only when you listen.
GF1
I don’t like the big hawks . They are a threat to the neighborhood cats.
I have not seen my little starling hunting buddy for a week or so . I really would have liked to keep him is some nice fresh warm food, but it has been just too cold to be opening doors to bust starlings.
I picked up some spare breech seals for the 500 yesterday. Might post a pic for you later of one sitting on a pellet. It’s still hard to believe that AA made the breech so tight that the pellets have to be forced through the seal.
I got one of the micro bore hoses for my pump . Makes filling the 500 easy. It’s long enough and flexible enough that it is a piece of cake.
Put a different scope on in place of the Leapers. Makes the gun lighter. Another Hawke 6-9×40 .
If this baby will shoot once I can get it outdoors with some distance, I think I may have found what I have been looking for in a PCP.
I really would like to polish the bore, but it looks like pulling the barrel out is going to be too difficult.
twotalon
I know people love their cats, they become part of the family, but from a cold Darwinian standpoint, the threatened hawks outweigh the overpopulated domestic cat.
No offense, jmho, when i see a big, beautiful hawk it brings me to wilder simpler times. If i saw a huge hawk scoop up my cat Id be pissed, but would still think “That was so cool!”
Ok, someone has to say it…. If I saw a big ole hawk swoop down and scoop up a cat I’d think it was a good start….. (JK… 😉 )
GF1
This afternoon I got the fill pressure for the Kodiaks. Earlier I had guessed 190 BAR to be right, and I was right…..on the nose (by the pump) .
I had to find the pressure 10 shots after a 200 BAR fill to get the curve to start right.
So now I know that all fills (so far ) have to start just under 200 BAR with the exception of shooting Kodiaks at 190 starting pressure.
twotalon
TT
Those big red hawks I’m sure could take a cat away easy. Probably even a small dog if they wanted I bet. But it is amazing to watch them hunt and fly.
And it sounds like you got the gun figured out pretty good. And yes post a picture with a pellet and the o-ring when you get a chance. I would like to see that.
And with that micro hose are you able to fill the gun with less pumps now? My little carbonfiber tank has a micro hose on it with the female Foster quick disconnect fitting on it. I think that you don’t waste as much air with the micro hose also when you release the pressure before you disconnect.
And I don’t know if you know what I think about the Hawke scopes. But I love em. And why do you think you want to polish the bore for. You think the gun could perform better than it is by doing that or do you see something wrong with the barrel?
GF1
It is supposed to use less air filling with the micro bore hose, but I am interested in something else…
The hose is longer and more flexible than the usual short hose for a pump. When you have to fill the tank on the gun, this helps a great deal. With the tank off the gun, it does not make a hoot.
A new barrel usually does not do as well as one that has had the bore polished. Gets the fuzzies rubbed out of it. I have seen quite a bit of difference before. Can shrink groups by quite a bit.
twotalon
TT
I guess the only way to do the barrel right without getting everything else messy is to take it off the gun.
Or do you have a trick to do it without taking the barrel off? Or is that just out of the question.
GF1
Looks like I would have to pull the shroud off to remove the barrel. I have read that they glue the freaking thing on. This does not make it simple.
I just got the pellet and o-ring pic. Have to upload it.
twotalon
TT
Glue it on? That’s crazy!
They don’t want it coming loose. Try pulling the valve out of an AF tank some time. That’s a good one.
Or getting the cocking handless off of HW barrels.
twotalon
Well thats the name of the game. Otherwise look at all the time and money wasted. And it sounds like the gun will make you happy. And I know you will post when you get your first trophy. If you know what I mean.
GF1
Trophy ? I ain’t gonna stuff it and hang it on the wall. My best ever was the most huge possum I ever saw in my life. I did not know they could get so big. It was 30″ nose to the end of it’s tail. And about half of the tail was missing. Credit goes to the Talon.
twotalon
GF1
Check this out….
This is the size that was suggested for a breech seal sitting on a CP.
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z244/twotalon/DSC_0001_zpsda370ad5.jpg
twotalon
TT
You would think they could do it a different way then using glue.
And that still doesn’t seem right to me about the o-ring fitting like that. But maybe like you said before that they are trying to load the pellet straighter in the bore that way. And obviously the guns shoot good. So maybe that is a good little idea they have.
GF1
Air Venturi tells me that the seals last a long time when lubed once in a while, unless you get into some pellets with sharp places on them and start snagging.
twotalon
TT
And now another reason to have to sort pellets.
GF1
Maybe a reason not to use crap pellets.
twotalon
TT
I will have to say some are better than others in quality thats for sure.
GF1
I am hopeful so far. Looks pretty good at about 10 yds in the basement, but some distance will tell the story.
I have one that did a lot of .048 groups in the basement with one kind of wadcutter doing 5 shot groups, but that is not an outdoor load. Distance will tell the story. I am going to hurt something with this.
twotalon
Matt
This is something we talked about when I was growing up. Its related to cars but I guess you could expand to other topics if you want.
We always had the debate of what the old muscle car would be worth more as. A rebuild or restore if you will in stock form with stock parts or with high performance parts and so on. Or what if they started reproducing some of the popular cars of the day with original parts and pieces from the original design prints.
This is just me. But my second car was a 72 COPO Camaro. And I know people are saying yea right. But anyway. If that car was made right now from production prints from the 70’s. Even if it had a old school 350 and 4speed and not the 427 (yes I said 427) I would find a way to by it.
So as to what you saying Matt. I think that’s cool that they are reproducing that gun. Even if the cost is high. Probably somebody will buy it just because of what it is.
nowhere,
Box stores don’t carry premium brands, which is what the boxed Premiers were. They always had to be ordered online.
B.B.
Apologies for broaching the subject of politics: A CA bill (SB 199) just passed the state senate and advanced to the state assembly. It bans the purchase, sale and transport of air guns and Airsoft guns–anything that shoots a BB or pellet–except those that are made of clear plastic or brightly colored (orange, pink, etc.).
The bill’s author is Kevin de Leon, who tried to pass a similar bill back in 2011. He’s a much more prominent member of the senate now. In fact, the President Pro Tem has said “it is clear” that de Leon will take over his position in November. In light of this, there’s a real chance this bill will become law.
It’d be nice if Pyramyd AIR would organize some sort of opposition.
You know it seems that laws that get passed in California tend to migrate across the country to the east.
For the last two years it hasn’t been a case of migration… It’s been “anything you can do, I can do better” between the PRCa and the New England states (many of which would like to emulate England’s laws).
I guess before long the airgun manufacturers will have to start painting their guns or something just to stay in business. I wonder if the red and blue AirForce guns would be considered bright colors. You would think that the gun manufacturers would be putting up a fight about this. And maybe they are and we just don’t know it yet.