by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Webley Rebel multi-pump pneumatic air rifle.
This report covers:
• Test design
• Velocity with Crosman Premier lite pellets
• Average with Crosman Premier lite pellets
• Velocity with RWS Hobby pellets
• Average with RWS Hobby pellets
• Velocity with H&N Baracuda Match pellets
• Average with H&N Baracuda Match pellets
• How fast?
• Pump effort
• Trigger-pull
• Made by Sharp
• Evaluation thus far
Today, we’ll look at the velocity of the Webley Rebel multi-pump pneumatic. As you read in Part 1, this rifle is advertised to get 963 f.p.s. in .177 on a full charge of 8 pumps. We’ll see if that’s the case.
Test design
I first test multi-pumps with one pellet, using a different number of pump strokes ranging from 3 to the maximum. Then I test the same pellet in the middle range for consistency in velocity from shot to shot. I do that with several pellets. I also test the trigger-pull, which on this rifle varies as the pump strokes increase. I’ll also test the effort that’s needed for each pump stroke, because it’s greater than most multi-pumps.
Velocity with Crosman Premier lite pellets
We will start with Crosman Premier 7.9-grain pellets.
Pumps…….Velocity
3……………..594
4……………..660
5……………..690
6……………..748
7……………..774
8……………..811
I note the velocity increases in large amounts with each pump stroke. It doesn’t slow down until pump 8. For those who have to know, I did pump the rifle 9 times and shot another Premier lite pellet. The velocity was 816 f.p.s. No advantage in pumping over 8 times, just like the manual says.
These are VERY high velocities for the number of pumps! The test rifle is clearly delivering power as promised.
Average with Crosman Premier lite pellets
Next, I tested the rifle with 10 shots with Premier lites, pumping 4 strokes per shot. The average velocity was 665 f.p.s. with a low of 652 and a high of 671. The spread is 19 f.p.s. At the average velocity, the rifle produces 7.76 foot-pounds of energy. On 8 pumps, it develops 11.54 foot pounds.
Velocity with RWS Hobbys
I next tested the rifle with RWS Hobby pellets the same way I tested with Premiers. Here are the results.
Pumps…….Velocity
3……………..638
4……………..708
5……………..763
6……………..791
7……………..832
8……………..845
The performance curve is similar to the one with Premier lites — every time another pump was added, the velocity jumped a lot until pump 8. I think Webley has designed this rifle to perform exactly as they want it to, and nothing more.
Average with RWS Hobby pellets
Since the rifle shoots so fast on just 3 pumps, I shot a string with 3 pumps instead of 4. The average velocity with Hobbys was 636 f.p.s. with a low of 631 and a high of 641 f.p.s. That’s a 10 f.p.s. spread and an average energy of 6.29 foot-pounds! For most backyard plinking and target shooting, 3 pumps are all you need; but with 8 pumps, this pellet produces 11.10 foot-pounds!
Velocity with H&N Baracuda Match pellets
Next, I shot H&N Baracuda Match pellets. I could see the rifle was performing in a very stable way so I abbreviated the first test string to 3 pumps, 5 pumps and 8 pumps.
Pumps…….Velocity
3……………..537
5……………..679
8……………..733
Pneumatic guns do better with heavier pellets, so this performance did not come as a surprise. I think 3 pumps strokes are all you need for most situations, unless you’re hunting.
Average with H&N Baracuda Match pellets
On 3 pumps, Baracuda Match averaged 537 f.p.s., with a low of 532 f.p.s. and a high of 541. That’s just a 9 f.p.s spread. The average muzzle energy for 3 pumps was 6.82 foot-pounds. On 8 pumps, this pellet developed 12.72 foot-pounds.
How fast?
We see this pneumatic already out-performs all others on the market at this time. I’m not talking about hybrids that are both PCPs and multi-pumps, but just straight multi-pumps. And people want to know if it will achieve its advertised velocity of 963 f.p.s., so I pumped it 8 times and shot a 5.2-grain RWS HyperMAX pellet. The velocity was 907 f.p.s in the test rifle. I’m willing to believe that some rifles may hit 963 f.p.s., but not the one I’m testing. However, it’s so much faster than anything else on the market that it doesn’t matter!
Pump effort
I tested the force required to close the pump handle for every pump stroke from 1 to 8. The results were better (easier) than I predicted, but also heavier than other multi-pumps.
Pumps…….Effort (lbs.)
1…………………17
2…………………35
3…………………41
4…………………44
5…………………44
6…………………45
7…………………47
8…………………48
You’ll get a workout pumping this rifle, which is why I think sticking to 3 pumps for most causal shooting is fine.
Trigger-pull
The trigger becomes harder to pull with every pump stroke with the type of valve that’s in the Rebel. So, I tested the pull at 3 critical points.
Pumps…….Trig.-Pull (lbs.)
3…………………3 lbs., 7 oz.
5…………………3 lbs., 13 oz.
8…………………4 lbs., 14 oz.
While there’s an increase in the pull required, it’s nothing like the triggers on the vintage Sharp Innovas. I would say the makers have solved the trigger issue! You’ll notice an increase in the trigger-pull after 5 pump strokes, but it never becomes bothersome.
Made by Sharp
Blog reader Mel pointed out that the rear sight still bears the name Sharp — the original maker of the rifle. So, the speculation is over — this is indeed a Sharp Innova by another name.
Sharp name is still on the rear sight. Thanks, Mel.
Evaluation thus far
All I can say is that I REALLY hope this rifle is accurate; because in all other ways, it looks like a winner! I’ve seen some remarkable groups on the internet, but they didn’t use my criteria. I only hope this rifle delivers. If it does, this will be a best buy!
Tom,
Thanks so much for reviewing this rifle! I’ve been hoping for your review for a long time! Do you think there is a niche for a high quality multi-pump with a choked barrel? I realize the demand may not be there, but there is nothing really on the market between a 392 and an fx independence, besides Steve’s aftermarket modded 392 on AofA’s website.
Thanks,
Erik
Erik,
There is a definite hole in thew market where a quality multi-pump could sell. The problem os the price. People who buy multi-pumps tend not to spend money on their guns, so the price/feature set has to be perfect.
B.B.
BB,
you are right, although this was said about many types of airguns. I believe people will pay the price for a multi-pump pneumatic airgun that has a decent trigger, reasonable power level and doesn’t need 10 pumps for every shot.
Frankly, In the last 10 years I spent spare some time thinking about the possibility of a good multi-pump pneumatic, and believe that especially for Crosman, there are several possibilities to create a very simple, economical multi-pump airgun that doesn’t have to be designed from scratch and will cause quite a stirrup in the airgun community. Do you think they have an open ear for new ideas (If yes, please shoot me a mail!)
Erik,
Are you the Erik that was hitting my 50 yard steel quadrant target with your 760 and edgun this weekend?
If so, check your email regarding Karlee’s shoes.
kevin
I just might have to put a multi-pump on my short list. The numbers this thing is putting out are in the range where these pellets should produce good groups. You can also see it was definitely designed for the UK market. It seems to have a pressure relief of some sort.
BB,
the rifle is not made by Sharp, as this company ceased to exist. I guess the Chinese company purchased the original manufacturing equipment, and forgot to remove the “Sharp”-logo on the rear sight.
Anyway, I am glad this interesting rifle is on the market again. Maybe it will attract tuners and modders like the crosman pneumatics do – the efficient valve and simple design invite to work on this gun.
I bet rather than forget, they did not want to pay the cost to have the molds/dies changed. They might also be using old stock parts, I guess.
On a $130 airgun, I can’t imagine there is so much profit that they would want to have new molds made to get rid of that logo.
The large Sharp logo on the airgun’s receiver was replaced by a “Webley” signature. I guess they just forgot about the rear sight, or did not care.
I am thinking the latter. The webley name had to be on there if they sold it as a webley, but who is going to notice that on the rear sight?
Excellent two part reviews, Tom. Webley name always draws my attention since buying a Tomahawk (Turkey).
The Rebel was a curious air rifle that nobody was revievieing. Long,long overdue. Added to my list. Thank you !
Pete.
Orcutt, California
No part of this rifle is made by Sharp.
It’s a Chinese copy of an innova, the parts interchangeability is hit and miss. The firing pins and O rings will swap.
There have been a lot of issues with pellet seating, the barrel doesn’t seem to be a flush fit in the breach and the head of the pellets can get pinched when the loading probe is pushed home.
The overall quality of the gun is very poor, the plastic breech is soft and makes mounting a scope all but pointless. You will find the pivots in the pump arm wear very quickly and the holes in the pump tube through which the head pin passes will elongate, reducing the pump pressures that are achieved.
I have a collection of Innovas and Aces so I was very excited when this rifle was launched, I bought one (here in the UK they’ve been out for a while) straight away and was hugely disappointed – please don’t spend money on one of these thinking it’s an Innova because it isn’t. It’s an insult to Sharp to have that name on the rearsight.
Buy one as a 10yd garden plinker and enjoy it as such.
Unfortunately, you are right. There are many users who are disappointed by the Webley Raider, due to leaking seals, breaking plastic parts and other quality related issues. At the same time, there are a lot of very happy users who love the good inherent accuracy & power of this gun.
Webley has certainly become quite a disappointment in recent years since they quite making products and went to slapping their name on others’ products.
In the recent past they had me quite excited about their single stroke pneumatic they were introducing, but I guess they scrapped it because it never happened.
I have hesitated to buy a new Tempest because I know it is not a Webley.
BB, this is certainly one of the fastest multi-pumps out there. Do you think that multi-pumps will experience a “speed race” like springers?
Fred_BR,
I think the world is ready for something more than what it already has. This one is in a nice power range.
B.B.
BB, you’re right!
The Paradigm was on my wish list. If someone can come up with a modern quality MSP I’m in!
Stock can be synthetic or a decent beech/birch/walnut(with added cost) a metal receiver/sleeved barrel and a good adjustable trigger. Caliber .177, .22, 25. Easy pumping with enough swept volume to give at least “Rebel” numbers. Someone should be able to do it.
Fred,
I don’t feel there’s much room to maneuver this side of the transonic range for pellets, round balls may be different but I’d like to see more multi-shot pumpers on the market.
Give the Indy a run for it’s money and we’ll eventually at least come up with a list of modifications and maybe we’ll wind up with a couple more onboard pump PCP’s to get 2 or maybe even 3 good shots outta 2 or 3 minutes work.One with a repeating magazine would be enable a shooter to engage more than 1 target even quicker.There is of course the liability of having the gun charged after it’s first shot but as it is to be treated as any PCP the concern wanes.
Onboard multi-shot pump-up pneumatics , like the FX Indy, are very expensive and need complex multi-stage pumps, well balanced valves and much more. You cannot simply slap a pump to a PCP and get this type of airgun.
For now, I think we want an economically feasible, simple multi-pump pneumatic that does little more than bringing Sheridan 397-like technology to the next level.
Mel, I think you’re right: the “on-board PCPs” are complex, and I honestly don’t think I need such a complexity. The ordinary PCP, with a separate source of power (hand pump or tank), is very powerful, but you have to carry something else with you. If a multi-pump could reach a level of power at least sufficient to compete with the PCPs, I would buy it. And no, I don’t expect it to cost like an entry-level multi pump. The Webley Rebel, like the 397, seems close to what I would like in a multi-pump.
Tom,
Thanks again for reviewing this one. If it proves very accurate, I’ll probably eventually get one.
With all of the advances in PCPs and the design refinements of springers over the recent past, it’s easy to forget the good old multi-pumper. That’s too bad, because they still have an awful lot to offer: low or no recoil, adjustable power, carbine size, affordable price, and on and on.
Michael
B.B.,
I’m very happy this gun has performed as advertised! Unfortunately the issues Bob Southern raised, about elongation of pivot holes specifically seem realistic and are not a fix to be tackled by the average airgun enthusiast( it seems the easiest way would be to limit full power use and ensure proper lubrication. I’ve been wanting one of these Magnum pumpers since I got my 392 rolling again.
Until this gun hit the market my search was limited to the old Crosman 140&1400 and a handful of the older versions of this rifle or Steriod one through Mac1. The Crosman route appears to be the closest to ‘instant gratification’, until now but they’re all used and that means buying someone else’s headaches. Anywho, I have this 3120 that needs a new pump arm but want it to appear to remain somewhat original,enabling it to still appeal to the collector’s market somewhat. That’s gonna be tough with both the metal and wood looking freshly redone. If I were to send this Benjamin 3120 to Tim to Steroid, Might I see some return on the investment? Or further it’s loss of appeal to them even more? Does the Blue Book have any mention of this modification?
Reb
Reb,
A 1320 in working condition is worth $150-175.
B.B.
3120, Gotta make sure we’re talkin’ bout the same gun 🙂
Reb,
I’m lisdexic. 😉
B.B.
I’ve seen it called worse 😉 ! In your experience, do guns with this modification by Mac1,raise or lower the desirability of the guns?
Reb,
Mac-1 has a good reputation. His mods will increase value.
B.B.
Thanks for that reassurance B.B! It’ll cost at least what I’d spend on the 2240 project I’ve been saving for just to have it modded(not including S&H). I’ve sent him a e-mail explaining what I’d like and asked for his thoughts on the conservation mod as well as a price for my serial#. We’ll see what he says.
B.B.
I looked at the Rebel when considering a multi pump but had some concerns about durability. In the end I rejected it and purchased 392. Your testing may show a gun to perform well but I understand that you just don’t have the time to do long term testing on a gun. I’m thinking the Rebel be worth while if accurate but I’ll stick with my 392 for now.
David
David,
That is always one of the drawbacks of my testing. I test so many guns that I never have time to test most of them thoroughly. So things like longevity are often skipped.
B.B.
Anybody who manually tests a multi-pump pneumatic for longevity is in for a serious workout 🙂
You got that right! I’d like to see some of these guys who have elongated the pivot holes on their guns. There is a fix for this involving RC model wheel bearings implanted into the pump-tube. an aftermarket aluminum breech would be must have!
That said, the gun is far from needing to be re-engineered but could still use some finishing touches.Keep the power where you need it to accomplish what you’re doing with it and keep it well lubricated to make it last.
I hope it’s accurate. Those are some good numbers!
Hey BB,
How loud is this gun? Noted on the pyramyd air website its a 4 (medium high). I was hoping that just pumping it 3 or 4 times would make it more indoor friendly.
Aireng,
Good question. It is a 3 on the lower power levels.
B.B.
If the gun turns out to be accurate. I would say its worth a129 bucks.
And it seems that if you stay in that 3 pump range maybe the gun will last longer. The trigger pull is not that bad either at 3 pumps. And the sound level is not bad at 3 pumps. I’m thinking it would be on the loud side though if you are shooting indoors.
And it looks like the gun will shoot at one or two pumps by the pump pressure that you gave. If so then that would probably work out nice indoors. The poi could still be pretty close to what you get outside at longer distances with more pumps. So maybe you wouldn’t have to account for hold as much indoors.
BB, in Part 1 you stated that the trigger is non adjustable. I own several Indonesian made Innova which is very similar to this one and the trigger travel is adjustable. Can you look whether there is a small screw just behind the trigger? Or better yet, remove the stock.
If you find such screw, then the travel is adjustable, although I suggest to leave it alone.
Lee,
So stage 1 is adjustable? Or is it the release point?
Anyhow, I won’t adjust it. It’s good enough where it is.
B.B.
It is the distance of trigger travel. When you pulled the trigger the sear plate moved up until the slot on the sear aligned with valve stem and the pressure is released. Adjustment screw will take some of that distance.
With this type of mechanism, no going back once the sear plate move. User must finish the shot or risking accidental discharge whenever he bump the rifle.
I understand Australia may be undergoing a change and starting to part ways with anti-gun sentiment. Here’s a story that supports that:
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/girls-leading-way-in-new-gun-trend-as-parents-tell-antigun-lobbyto-back-off/story-fnihsrf2-1227095516481?nk=1d90796eec7cf4b1443ff9f57231b91c
Edith
I’m glad they’re able to overcome the anti-gun lobbyists and show the true values of teaching gun safety at an early age. and yeah, it sounds like another government run-amuck who needs to be told BACK OFF BROTHER! I ran 3 different gun games while “on the road” and witnessed some truly gifted prodigies at various ages. Who said champions can’t be born after 18? My point is ( Mr. Browne)the younger they start, the sooner they know how to handle guns safely and more importantly know what not to do and the better they get at an earlier age
Reb
B.B., You list the pumping effort, for comparison, can you tell me about what the Benjamin 392-397 pumping effort is? Also, although those it isn’t listed, will the gun fire with one or two pumps? All the pumps I have or had will fire with 2, but really need three. Just looking at the velocity of the Rebel, it would appear the gun could be fired with 2 pumps (indoor short range). Thanks, Bradly
Bradly,
The Benjamin guns top out at 33-35 lbs. of effort.
Yes, this rifle could probably be shot with just 2 pumps.
B.B.
Thank You B.B. I did look through older reviews you have done. I found one on the Benjamin with the Pump assist. The stock Benjamin was 33-35 lbs on the eighth pump. The pump assist gun was 14 lbs, but that was with every pump of the gun (1-8).
B.B.,
Speaking of pumpers….I just acquired a swedish excellent model CII in remarkable condition.
It’s similar to the CII from 1945 in this pictorial:
http://www.luftvapenbladet.com/images/Excellent/excellent%20modeller.pdf
I did a search of the blog and the only thing I found was your photo of a swedish excellent model CII sitting on davis schwesinger’s table at roanoke 2013.
Have you ever done a review on a swedish excellent?
kevin
Kevin,
I’ve never reviewed an Excellent. I saw one for sale at the Ohio show this year, but it wasn’t working, so I passed.
Good on ya!
B.B.
I have a C1 that I got a couple years ago.It is just like the 1905 CII in the link you gave.It is in remarkable shape for it’s age.It shoots a .21 cal roundball and is a smooth bore.Apparently this model is really scarce…..it was just luck that it was offered to me.Great build quality back then!!
Hey Frank!
How have you been?
Should have known you had a Swedish excellent.
It appears well made. The swing open breech access is interesting and reminds me of the USFT.
I received a tin of 5,4 round balls with the gun. The unopened tin is marked ORIGINAL EXCELLENTGEVRSKULAN. It’s interesting to note that on the label there is a graphic that is a good facsimile of the Swedish excellent model CII.
Haven’t had a chance to shoot it yet but I’m eager.
Kevin
I was really jazzed about the overall build quality too! Love that swing over breech…..and I too connected it with the USFT.I love shooting the USFT…..it is like a drill press (when I dope the wind right!).I dispatched a fly at 45 meters sunday…very amusing,LOL
I’m doing OK I guess.I’m still kicking,just NOT as high.:)
Frank,
Guess we have the same sickness. LOL!
Keep on kicking.
Kevin
Its all about cost . Crosman did a special edition 392 had checkerd grips/ forearm and scope cut out on breach $269. So this chinese Rebel is priced wright .. The Benji 397/392 is king of pumpers as of today..but i would buy something if it was better quality. So sad that Sheridan is gone
Most of Crosman pumpers are very reliable especially the Benjamin 392/397 they built last forever.
Chris, I hate to bring bad news, but it isn’t the Benjamin that was a few years ago. The new one my brother just looked at was not good. Mac 1 no longer sells them since the quality has fallen off. He took them down from his web site. This is what Tim wrote when asked why it’s no long there: I took it down. Can’t get relieably accurate 392’s from Crosman so I’m struggling to get out from under orders I already have. The sight just gets me more demand for what I can’t seem to deliver. The guns are not good enough to buy anymore. They are more often than not not worthy of the investment to be a Steroid. Consequently I’m going to sit back and let people send me accurate guns so I can make them last. I’m no longer the guy trying to make innaccurate guns shoot decent enough to deliver. My suggestion to people who need accuracy is start sorting thru the inventory at Walmart. I’ve had enough of the Quality on offer. Now I’m just going to work on good stuff.
Find a good one and send it to me to be Steroid Modified. I’l;l sell new Discos and M-rods but the latest Pump guns have turned into a nightmare.
This is the link.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=48101.0
Sad times for the “best” pumper around (I guess it’s still the best) Wish Daisy would have kept the 22x around. Metal receiver and wood stock.
Right it was the Seridans that were candidates for his mods. I did get one from Tim he did everthing but the extended forarm to mine . I didnt want to take off any wood from stock .
A very interesting test BB. But for me, I’ll stay with my Sheridan “C’s”.
Mike
Hi BB,Thank you for testing and reporting the pump stroke resistance for us.It seems that in conjunction with the pumping force is the importance of hand placement.My Benjamin 397 is not too hard for me to pump 8 pumps.However,when I put a regular scope on it in the normal position;I can only pump it up to 8 pumps about twice
and then I’m done.If a company could make a pump opposite where we can hold the gun and still allow for a regular scope,then I think we’d all be ahead.When you add the accuracy potential of a bolt action and a fixed barrel to some power;it begs for long distance shooting and a good scope.
Also,I have wondered why companies that make both pellets and rifles don’t find out what velocity their pellet shoot most accurately at and then produce their rifles to shoot at that velocity.Trying to go faster would be a waste of every ones’ time.For the .177 Marauder and the 7.9 grain premier you were looking for a range of 850 to 900fps,I have read somewhere that 890fps.is the most accurate velocity for many pellets this side of the speed of sound.-Tin Can Man-
I am glad to have my trusty old 1400 that still shoot s like new after 45 years. I would like another pumper but if the benjis are not at least in the same ballpark as a 1400 or 140 then I will be satisfied with my old pumper.
I glad to see the rebel make some good power but I am sorry to hear that the pump linkage may not be up to the task of full power pumping for the life of the gun. It is not good to make pump pivots and linkages out of plastic for durability measures.
Buldawg
If we’re discussing full power (or Magnum as you call it over there) multipumps, you need look no further than the Sharp Ace.
I have three of these superb guns. They are PCP accurate (yes really) and 4 pumps gets full 12Ftlbs which is all we’re allowed in the Police State formally known as England.
The build quality surpasses anything else I’ve seen and I’ve tried all the Bluestreaks / Silverstreaks / 392 /397 / 347 etc. etc.
The Ace is all made of blued steel, the barrel is long and 16mm O/D. The only plastic part is the trigger and that’s just a plastic blade on a metal sear release.
They were built to last a lifetime.
Save up and get yourself an Ace – they really are that good, you don’t need anything else.
I have a Spanish “Setra” which I believe is a cut above all the multi pumps so far mentioned.
It is said to be one of the airguns responsible for the law change in the UK which
reduced the power of airguns allowed without a FAC.
Ive owned it in NZ for for around 30 years, it shoots, under one inch groups at 50 metres with five of its 10 pump max.Cons – quite loud , not enough barrel protrusion for a moderator.
Bill,
Never heard of it! How about some more info? Maybe a picture?
B.B.
I have a email plus pics but your co refused it .
Can you please send a email address and I will try again. Cheers.
Thanks for the review. Your stats on effort vs velocity makes me wonder why anyone would want to go with a multi-pump pneumatic. When comparing to a Crosman TR77 NP, it seems like the Webley gives very poor return on effort required when pumping to maximum output. The TR77 NP puts out 16lbs of energy with about 40lbs of effort to cock. While pumping the Webley 8 times would require about 321lbs. of output to net only about 12.7 lbs of energy. What am I missing?
69Indian,
Welcome to the blog.
I don’t think you are missing anything. From the way you stated your question it’s obvious that you understand how all of this works.
A fan of the multi-pump would tell you that his gun doesn’t recoil as much as the Nitro Piston, which is true, and also it has the potential to be more accurate without regard to a special hold (artillery hold). That’s also true, but with good technique, a shooter can cancel any advantage. If the multi-pump is built to the standards of a precharged rifle, then it does excel in accuracy, but the Webley we are discussing is not in that category.
Sine the NP can be left cocked indefinitely like the multi-pump, there really isn’t much advantage.
B.B.