Sig Sauer Max Michel 1911 blowback BB pistol: Part 1

by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

Sig Sauer Max Michel BB pistol
Max Michel 1911 BB pistol from Sig Sauer.

This report covers:

  • Who is Max Michel?
  • The pistol
  • The safety
  • The grip safety
  • CO2
  • Sights
  • Magazine

Who is Max Michel?

Today we begin looking at yet another lookalike airgun — the Sig Sauer Max Michel 1911 blowback BB pistol . If you wonder who Max Michel is, let me tell you. Max Michel is an IPSC shooter with many world championships to his credit. He is the captain of Team Sig. He is noted for being a very fast shooter, which, in IPSC competition, means everything. And he is giving Sig permission to use his established name on this pistol, so you have to be impressed. His name means as much to him as Sig’s name means to them.

He actually says in the press release that he recommends this pistol for training, and for teaching younger shooters. If the pistol proves to be somewhat accurate, I will expand that to teaching all shooters.

In Sig’s press release for the pistol they come out and say this BB pistol is intended to give shooters on a budget more trigger time on a handgun that’s very similar to what they might use in competition. They note that dry-fire practice is important, but also note that it is very boring. For an IPSC shooter where competition is based on fast recovery after every shot and target acquisition, that is true. Dry-fire for an IPSC competitor would be like training to ride horses on a merry-go-round! This pistol at least puts a BB out the spout with every shot and has realistic recoil with a metal slide!

The pistol

Let’s push the hype aside and look at what we actually have. This is a 1911A1 model pistol that has several 1911 features. You can build an A1 firearm just like this. The scallops in the frame behind the trigger make it an A1. The flat mainspring housing and long trigger blade are 1911 features that can be installed on any A1. The lightened and bobbed hammer, ambidextrous safety with extended thumb shelves, beavertail grip safety, enhanced slide cutouts front and rear for ease of cocking, enlarged ejection port, Novak-style sights front and rear and the Picatinney rail in the frame, forward of the triggerguard, are all aftermarket custom features.

The pistol weighs slightly less than 2 lbs. 1 oz. on my postal scale. That’s 5 ounces less than a 1911 firearm that’s similarly equipped. And, for those who keep track, it says Made in Japan on the frame.

I’m testing pistol number 16E00001. Yes, it’s number one! It was sent to me direct from Sig Sauer and I doubt they will sell it to anyone.

The safety

Before moving on, let’s look at the safety again. Yes, it is ambidextrous, in the sense that there is a safety lever on both sides of the frame. But the lever on the right side is a dummy. It’s held to the frame by a screw and does not move.

The real safety lever is on the left side of the gun. And it operates differently than any safety I have seen. At the rear of the lever there is a protrusion — a button that just a bump. This “bump” must be pressed down to take the gun off safe. It’s not a natural move. I think the designers wanted to ensure that the safety was deliberately released. With some practice I could do it with the thumb of my shooting hand, but it had to be deliberate.

Sig Max Michel BB pistol safety
The safety has a button (arrow) at the rear that must be pushed down to release the lever.

The grip safety

I checked the operation of the grip safety and it does work as it should. It has a speed bump at the bottom for positive functioning, which all good firearm beavertail grip safeties have.

CO2

In case it isn’t obvious, this pistol operates by a single CO2 cartridge. It’s housed inside the grip and the left panel comes off for access. The panel removes easily, yet fits tight and has no movement.

To pierce the cartridge the flat mainspring housing is pulled out at the base, then pulled away from the frame and rotated down. It’s another design feature I have not seen before. It works like most other BB pistol piercing mechanisms, but with this subtle difference.

Sig Max Michel BB pistol piercing mechanism
The flat mainspring housing pops out of the frame, then rotates down and out of the way.

Sights

The sights are combat sights, front and rear. The rear Novak-style sight does not adjust in either direction. It appears to slide from side-to-side in a dovetail, but that’s just an illusion.

The front sight has a single white dot and the rear has two dots, so the sight picture is three dots in a line. It’s very fast, but not for target shooting. I think I can light the target to eliminate the dots and use the profiles of the sights for greater precision. For fast action shooting, though, these sights are perfect.

Magazine

The stick mag holds 16 BBs. It drops free of the pistol when the release button is pressed. It has an easy access for loading, although a speedloader cannot be used — at least not any speedloader I have seen. But the mag should be cheap enough to have several on hand for reloading the pistol in competition.

This should be a fun pistol to test. Sig and Max Michel are both putting their reputations on the line with this air pistol and I plan to see whether they can deliver!

49 thoughts on “Sig Sauer Max Michel 1911 blowback BB pistol: Part 1

  1. That safety makes me suspicious of the whole thing.

    Why would Sig Sauer, of all companies, with their experience in 1911’s put a non standard safety on a gun intended to replicate a real gun for practice purposes?

    It’s got to be the lawyers.

    And Max, or any other competitor would never use a safety like that on their race gun, they would never be competitive in the speed department.

    And having that type of non standard safety would lead to a training scar, when it comes to the time to use your real gun in a competitive or high stress environment.

    In stressful situations, fine motor control is the first thing to go..

    To paraphrase an old adage, “you fight like you train, so you train like you fight.”

    Rant over..

    I hope it is accurate, it sure looks nice though..


    • 45Bravo,

      Ever get the feeling these lawyers did not have a happy childhood?

      I agree with you that it does spoil the overall presentation of the gun. In competition in what condition is the gun when called to the firing line? Maybe they don’t like Condition 1?

      Siraniko


    • What a dopey design. too late to be useful in a crowded field. Stick magazine ,nonfunctioning ambi safety, If you have a Tanfoglio/ Colt 1911 with co2 mags that are across the board compatible, this makes no sense. After seeing this Colt should offer a Combat model with ambi safety and Novak sights, A Defender with blowback action ,and a Target Grade Gold Cup with adjustable sights. As a Left hand pistol shooter , I would like a functioning ambi safety, if I purchased another 1911, I have 2 Colt Commanders ,a Remington ,and a WW2 Colt, I would go for the Remington Tactical, for less money with functioning controls. The purpose of a pistol like this is trainer to build familiarity and muscle memory, thumbs down on this one. Sig seems to be having trouble with their air gun designs.


      • The KWC Blackwater BW1911 R2 is another tactical version of the 1911A1. It’s safety is fully ambidextrous. Although the BW1911 R2 also has fixed front and rear sights, my shots were pretty well centered left-to-right as I recall, but the shots did tend to be low requiring some slight elevation of the front sight over the rear sight notch to get on target. All mechanical functions work as they should. If you haven’t looked at this pistol, you should.


  2. You are not allowed to load the weapon until you are on the line, and to do so instructed by the range officer.

    Then you place it in the holster in condition 1( for a 1911, chamber loaded, hammer cocked, safety on.)

    Then after your stage, you can not leave the line until you show empty and clear to the satisfaction of the Range officer.

    In some ways, lawyers are a necessary evil, they are here because we have to put warning labels on hair dryers, sharp knives, and hot cups of coffee..

    I say we remove all the really stupid warning labels, and let nature take its course..

    Remember, there is a warning label on something because someone used it in a way it wasn’t intended.
    That means there is a warning label on hemorrhoid ointment that says “NOT TO BE TAKEN ORALLY” .

    Thanks for the tip lawyers..


    • LOL! 45Bravo!

      You have to wonder about some of these corporate lawyers…

      One of the components on a 2” x .5” printed circuit board I designed was made of materials that were toxic if ingested and the safety-guy was insisting that I add a 3” x 1” warning label advising people that they should not eat that component.

      The circuit board was to go in an “armored (20mm proof) black-box” on a military plane, in a military installation, guarded by armed soldiers and the safety-guy was worried about a label… I told him to go away.

      The warnings included with an electric drill would imply that you have to be a mechanical engineer to put in a drill bit, an electrical engineer to plug it in the wall and a machinist to drill a hole… and don’t drill holes in children!

      Guess that the lawyers have to consider the lowest user IQ

      I agree, remove the stupid labels and let nature weed out the duds.

      One of my pet peeves… *Rant off* 

      Hank


  3. Nice looking airgun, but if you like to practice IPSC, can someone explain to me why bother with a bb gun and not buy a GBB airsoft gun that is almost an exact copy of the real thing (mostly the material is diferent). As i recall there are championships around the world that use airsoft guns.
    Why everybody mentions lawyers when talking about differences between bb guns and firearms (mostly pistols) and on GBB airsoft guns everything operate like the real thing but nobody mentions lawyers? Just wonder.


    • Bullseye,

      Because no one has been seriously injured enough by the airsoft stuff in the United States to attract the serious attention of the ambulance chasers as of yet.



        • Bullseye, I’ve asked myself the same question. I couldn’t find an advantage of BBs over Airsoft so I went with the Airsoft pistol for my practice.

          Michael, If the orange muzzle tip bothers you, it is possible, on many pistols, to remove it. On my KWA 1911, I bought an after market metal barrel shroud to replace the factory plastic one. The after market shroud does not have the orange tip and adds just a little more weight to the pistol making it a better match to a “real” 1911.

          The US federal law requiring the orange tip only requires the tip be there for sales. Once purchased, there is no law requiring the tip remain.

          Tom


  4. Pingback: Sig Sauer Max Michel 1911 blowback BB pistol: Part 1 | Airguns: Air Rifles and Pistols

  5. B.B.,

    Is photo 2, of a grimy Max Michel with white metal rear sight, of the real firearm? If so, the real firearm, like the air pistol, has that same unique safety-safety found on the air pistol, and it would then not be a lawyer-ordered design element.

    I’ve never seen a trigger like that — interesting, as I like straight triggers. But as a lefty, I am disappointed by the lack of an ambidextrous safety.

    Michael




      • Siraniko,

        Yes, we’ve seen this tone distortion in a few other photos of gun details. I seem to remember B. B. addressing this in one or more reviews where it was necessary to process in some unnatural tones in order to show important details. It’s just the limitations of the technology. Shows what it needs to show.
        Hope you are doing well over there. We are sweating election results.

        Walt


        • Walt,

          Actually, there is a time-proven resolution of conflicts in white and color balance: using a gray card. It can replace incident metering, allowing sufficient illumination of the subject without having to make compromises for reflective surfaces or using elaborate diffusing equipment.

          That said, I am not sure what on my computer screen is because of relectance. Perhaps I simply need to clean my eyeglasses, LOL.

          Michael


          • Michael,

            Thanks for the tip. I’ll have to look into it. Guess you could tell I don’t do studio work, just outdoor subjects like birds and bugs. But I am pretty good with them.

            Walt


  6. Too bad the rear sight does not move. It sure does look as if it would from photos that I was able to research. The P.A. site mentions fiber optics sights front and rear,… but I was unable to confirm open tops on the light tubes from any view I could find. Either way,… it would be “3 dots in a line” as you said.

    00001 huh? Someone at Sig must like you! 😉 Hey,…. if it shoots good,…. it can’t hurt to ask.


  7. RR,

    There a listing on PA of the KWC Tanfoglio Witness 4.5mm GBB CO2 that is an airsoft gun that shoots 4.5mm bbs but it has all the features of the 6mm cousin plus it delivers greater power on target. Why the safety levers are functional on the 4.5mm as they are on the 6mm if there is a possibility of serious injury? By the way you can still seriously injured from a 6mm aluminum alloy ball. (it is not recomented to shoot metallic bbs but it is possible).
    Personaly i don’t think that there are lawyers involved in this situation, perhaps manufacture rights and restrictions and/or production cost.


  8. Looks neat, save for that oddball safety.
    I wish they made more of these replicas that shot pellets, but since most are derived from airsoft guns it makes sense that a conversion to BBs is much cheaper.


  9. Back to yesterday’s comment about the HS Mod 71. The HS is Herbert Schmidt and it is found in the number 11 Blue Book. I have found a few articles on it. Shoots a 4.5 round ball and holds a 100 rounds. The one I have is a later one with plastic grips. Original price was $29.95. Seams to be rare in this Country but maybe not as valuable as the Blue. Book reelects.


  10. On ambidextrous safeties and how you never know how things can work out…
    Many years ago, living in a marginal neighborhood in marginal times…
    Out walking my sweet and gentle rescue Afghan hound. (To look at me you’d not think me a Afghan hound kind of guy. How the Afghan came to me a story for another day.) Midnight it was or even later. And then a very sudden attack by the local drug dealers escaped 3-pac of guard dogs. Labrador sized critters they were.
    Now this was a time & place where one was wise to be (low keyed) armed and it was so. But there was a problem…my right hand was engaged in holding critter #1 away from my face while my left hand was holding a sloppy draw pistol…without a left-handed safety. Couldn’t really get at the right hand one. Sloppy left hande draw and all.
    Elapsed time from onset? No more than about 7 seconds.
    I remember thinking, “it’s amazing how fast things can go really south.”
    Abruptly the dog let go and screamed. I’d never heard that before.
    It was the Afghan, come to rescue me and VERY firmly, full-strength clamped to the dealers dogs rear leg. A goodly amount of blood and mess I might say.
    An amazing sight it was to see the show-dog, the luxury pet hot-pursuing the 3-pac back to their dark alley.
    Upshot of all this, the Afghan got a heroe’s welcome, a much needed bath and a steak dinner.
    The dealers were/are probably getting out of slam just about now (for other offenses, not this one)
    And whatever pistols I now or will ever own WILL have ambidextrous safeties, ‘cuz you never know. One may not have the full use of all your hands.


    • Yup. Your preferred hand may be injured or otherwise occupied.If you need to shoot around a barricade or a corner ,from your left if you are a righty it makes sense to shoot with your left hand and expose less of yourself. I am completely ambidextrous with rifle and shotgun and about 95percent with handgun. Glad you came out ok ,and your four legged pal too.


      • Thanks for the comeback.
        Oddly enough, while I still struggle as a left handed shooter, I’m about 90% as good left handed with, of all things, a rapier.
        Huh? you (rightly) say. “You mean, like a sword?”
        Yup.
        It seems not quite so many years ago as the doggie adventure but largely because of the ‘leftside-weakside’ thing I had the opportunity to learn renaissance fencing…from some very dedicated and highly competent practitioners. The concept was, if it was 400 years ago, say 1600 or thereabouts and you were doing this for real, this is what you’d be doing. No hot-house foil work here. We were really flailing and poking at each other with modern epee’s with even occasional trips to the ER. (I still have a scar in an eye-socket where an epee point penetrated the mask and missed my actual eye by half an inch. Still, collected quite the shiner from that one. Mom was really pissed.) We used the epee as, of course, we wanted to keep the fatalities down that we’d be getting by using real rapiers.
        But starting out, I reasoned there was no reason not to learn left handed and it turned out to be a highly useful talent no matter what martial art form one was to study. One of the weakness points nearly universal to the otherwise master of (fill in blank here of preferred martial art) is repeated practice based on a right handed opponent. Statistically that’s a good bet…right up to encountering a lefty. Or in renaissance fencing, someone with a sword in each hand, or sword/dagger combo, or garbage-can lid (buckler) in one hand, dagger or sword in the other, or…well, you get the idea.
        In any case, ambidextrous coupled with surprising techniques which nobody’s seen in 400 years can give very positive, even amusing results.
        And it’s especially satisfying to pull off that ‘Princess Bride’ deal in real life. (“I have some very bad news for you, Sir, for I am not left handed..”)


        • Understand that. Have trainedinknife , double knife , arnis stick fighting,and Iaido.In Japanese sword I had to learn to draw right handed and use single hand technique right handed. Two handed technique was a little easier since I had always batted right handed.It is good to have a developed non preferred hand. Like renaissance fencing you can use a stick inone hand and a blade in the other . One ever knows


          • From memory of Goldman’s book, The “Princess Bride.”
            “And I have even worse news for you…neither am I left handed.”
            And now the battle was finally joined.
            For those not catching the reference—Great book, William Goldman, The Princess Bride, 1973, undoubtedly available on Amazon, and the movie (1987) is pretty good too. Especially the aforementioned sword fight..



  11. BB, the question for power in springers is now on hold as I read and learn by heart from some of your previous blogs and the site provided by Chris. I read yesterday’s blog and you said you wouldn’t lubricate these type of triggers with moly. My most recent gun has this trigger including the trigger adjustment screw. How should I lubricate these triggers? If you disassemble the trigger do you have to unsrew the adjustment screw or normally take the end cap out by just taking out the pins? The adjustment screw probably pushes along the piston sear, so can it misfire while adjusting for lightness ? The manufacturer told me it is a double pull weight adjustable trigger. What’s the difference between a double pull and double stage trigger ?
    Chris, thanks man for the link to that site. Has literally a ton info. Appreciate your help.


    • Riki,

      Single STAGE and two STAGE triggers. A single stage means yo9u are pulling the trigger to fire the gun the instant you get on the blade. A two-stage trigger has a first stage that stops at stage two. Then pulling harder breaks stage two and the gun fires.

      Many military triggers are single stage. Most target triggers are two stage.

      Yesterday I was referring to the BSF triggers ONLY. They can slip off their cocked position unexpectedly.

      As for lubricating triggers, I think I wrote a blog or two about that.

      /blog/2005/12/lubricating-your-spring-gun-part-2-cocking-linkage-breech-seal-and-trigger/

      /blog/2014/04/airgun-lubrication-spring-guns-part-2/

      B.B.


    • Riki,

      You are welcome. It is great for scope usage which can be one of the most difficult things for someone to fully grasp. Someone here provided it to me,.. right here,.. and I had it saved. Glad to share and pass it on.

      Good luck and take care,…. Chris


  12. B.B.,

    Although there are certainly some differences, the operation of this pistol looks suspiciously like another “made in japan” pistol.

    /blog/2012/12/winchester-model-11-16-shot-semiautomatic-bb-pistol-part-1/

    As an aside, after shooting a lovely vertical string last week I am biting the bullet and will attempt to fix my “alive jam” weakness on the Titan. As it is, I look at the barrel and it breaks.

    ~ken


    • Ken,

      Perhaps I missed it,…. but what is an “alive jam”? It is fun to get into the insides of an air gun. Yes,… at first it is quite daunting,… even scary. The first time I tore down the TX 200,…. I spent 3 days. I studied what all did what,… how everything interacted,…. etc. Now,…. I could do it in 30 minutes. Find out all you can,… blogs, YouTube, etc.,…. and then “go for it”. The 92FS was the same way. On a scale of 1~10 of difficulty,…. the 92 was a full 10,…. compared to the TX at a 2. Just some words of encouragement.


      • Chris,

        You haven’t missed much, really. Most likely, “alive jam” is a rather ambiguous translation from Chinese for the barrel lock, that spring loaded piece that engages the horizontal detent and if everything is in line and balanced give us a chance to hit what we aim at. Rather than risk linking to any potential conflicting business interest, I link to Crosman’s PDF. Even if I don’t tell you, I know you will find the parts easily. Parts 15 and 16 are the spring and the “alive jam” (I have to laugh a little every time I say it). Part 17 is the detent. Lastly, part 23 is the bushing that holds the jam in place. Apparently the springs may arrive “weak” or become so after a while.

        This PDF is for the Trail but the parts are the same, except the PDF for Titan uses different numbers. The link to it is more convoluted so I am going for the easiest one.

        http://www.crosman.com/pdf/manuals/Trail%20XL%20EVP.pdf

        Bravo for you. I would certainly spend a few days working on understanding a TX 200 before working on it. Actually, I have no problem taking things apart, but … I agree about research, it can take me a while to have a good conceptual understanding of even some fairly simple things; at least, they are simple after the light come one. I believe I am on solid ground now, although the actual doing may take a bit of perseverance (based on the reported experience of others – slow but steady seems the best way to approach this.

        ~ken


        • Ken,

          I pulled up the link,…. sideways it was,…. and expanded to 200%. Fuzzy at best,… but I got it. My first thought is shimming the spring with washers. But,…. it sounds as you have done some research and have confidence going forward,…. so we shall be awaiting your hopefully successful report. I can envision much worse things to try and fix.

          Good luck and wishing you the best.

          Chris


          • Chris,

            About now I feel like I am doing one of those “reviews” where some aspiring reviewer does a video telling how great this new air rifle is and how he is now going to unpack it.
            Yesterday evening, I did take a look at my barrel locking mechanism. After I took the mechanism apart I did make a trip to the hardware store.
            I had to pass on the brass pivot washers for now but it looks like what I found is what other have found and then removed some of the outside diameter.
            I did purchase a spring that fits inside the one I took out of the rifle. I decided that working with this is easy enough that I may do more later. Well, getting it back together was less simple than taking it apart but I feel confident I have learned from this experience. I tried to make sure thing was even and balanced.
            The story so far is the barrel locks solidly and I actually had to give the barrel a little whomp to start cocking the rifle. This doesn’t tell me everything; the proof of the pudding is in the tasting (shooting in this case).
            I thought I was very careful, but the scope moved and I need to start from the beginning to get it mounted and sighted in.
            Not much point now, but I could have offered this link and pointed to the DOWNLOADS menu to obtain a better PDF. Hindsight and all that …

            ~ken


            • Ken,

              You sound as if you are well prepared and suited to the task at hand. Good luck and hope all works out perfect. I had to laugh at the “unpacking videos”. I never could bring myself to watch them. 😉 Other videos,… on the other hand,…. have helped greatly.

              Chris


        • Ken

          I have a Crosman (Chinese) springer with the same problem .
          Best way is to take it apart and take the spring to a hardware store . Find something that looks about same size, other than length . Trim new spring as necessary .

          twotalon


          • Twotalon,

            Good to hear from you. I was already going to post a comment with your name in it. I do remember things we have discussed, including how you feel (felt) about the Titan.

            I decided to go with a potential solution someone offered. His words were, “you can remove the weak spring from the rifle and purchase a weak spring directly from Crosman”. I decided to try his solution and purchase a spring to insert inside the original.

            He also addressed the brass pivot washers but didn’t mention the potential need to sand the outside parameter down to obtain a diameter matching the original washers.

            Lastly, he mentioned taking a bit off the back portion of what I will call the saddle because I don’t know how long it will take me to look it up. Anyway, it is the angled back portion of the saddle, to get the jam more travel before the breaks are put on.

            I believe I am doing well to take it one step at a time and do more only if called for.

            I must treat the scope as if I am mounting it for the first time, ensure I can get it sighted in and take it from there.

            Thanks for writing. I am progressing towards 5 years (come February) since the neck surgery. I can say the surgery made a difference for the better, but I still have problems – but only on the left side now. I am looking to get a 64 slice MRI done soon. To date, the Lyrica has helped. I don’t even mind the Lyrica but I am anxious about the future, both about availability and cost. I would like one less concern although I have no idea what the future brings. I am less than a month away from 66. No one cares about my health complains because they have more and/or worse issues. A co-worker/friend died last June after suffering for several years. I guess I’ll ask the wife to bake some brownies I can take to eat while shooting the Titan.

            I do have one complaint. The Daisy 1000/Hatsan 70 I have has a pathetic trigger. Not only the design, but the face that the parts are laminated, not solid. I know that Hatsan later went to solid parts but they are not easy to come by. And unlike Crosman, Hatsan apparently doesn’t offer even current parts.

            I hope you are doing well, Art.

            ~ken


            • Ken

              It might be a good idea to only fix the things that clearly need fixing . You start doing other things, it might be unnecessary work for no gain or you might louse something up .
              I don’t like risks or work for no gain .

              Doing O.K. here except for a bit of frustration over the unfavorable shooting weather this year .

              twotalon



  13. I saw one video of Max Michel, and he does everything fast: shoot, talk, walk. I’ll look forward to the report on the trigger. Does a blowback action mean the trigger is lighter? My only gripe against my Walther CPSport is that the trigger is almost unmanageably heavy. I’ve finally gotten it to work with H&N pellets, but the trigger holds me up.

    The 1911 and .45 ACP combo has just taken two heavy blows for me. No less a source than S.L.A. Marshall, a military historian, writes that the 1911 is susceptible to “frost lock” below freezing. That seriously undercuts its famed reliability and would have caused serious problems on the Russian Front, the ultimate weapons laboratory. Apparently, soldiers could get it to work in Korea in -40 temperatures by stripping off all the oil, but that is not ideal. I’m not even sure how you would remove all the oil from cracks and crevices unless you had a degreaser which I don’t see them having on the Chosin Reservoir. The second blow was a recent poll of top tactical shooters who almost unanimously preferred the 9mm to the .45. The 9mm has always had a greater ammo capacity. What seems to tip the balance now is the improved lethality of the bullet. The reign of the 1911 may be coming to an end.

    I see that I’m only 40 years behind the times with the event of mini-sniping. There is nothing new under the sun. Gunfun1, you must be a glutton for punishment. Shooting one gun at different distances is hard enough. Shooting many guns at different distances sounds much harder. But it sounds like you are making the best use of your space and gun collection.

    Sirinako, thanks to the links to the min-sniping articles. I don’t see any methodology in the Capstick article which makes me think that he was just using the MOA rule to translate group size at one distance to another. However, I think it is well-known that the MOA rule is an idealization that does not take account of what Jeff Cooper called “range probable error” that increases the further out you go. The shot difficulty, unlike the MOA model, is non-linear. So, the capstick firearms distances probably err on the conservative side. Additional factors of projectile energy and air drag and even the writing speed or jumpiness of the sights at distance also play a role. Anyway, compared to Capstick, my adventures with the Anschutz, seem pretty tame.

    Matt61


    • Matt61
      I love it. I make cheat sheets for each gun for mildot holds or amount of pumps for pump guns.

      Once I spend time with each gun it’s easy to start memorizing holds or pumps on the different guns. Some guns actually have close to the same holds and they are different caliber and weight pellets. My rimfire .22 rifle actually has pretty well the same hold overs when I shoot CCI 710 fps 40 grain long rifle bullets as my .25 caliber Mrod with JSB 33.95’s at 900 fps.

      And I have always rotated shooting more than one gun when I shoot. I usually shoot 10 shots with each gun. So 3 guns would be 30 shots but I only use 10 pellets from each gun. So only 10 pellets in .177 caliber get used out of a tin. Likewise for my .22 and .25 caliber pellet guns. So in a sense I don’t use up 30 shots of one particular caliber. Plus I get to shoot 30 shots but the guns only get 10 shots of time on each. So maybe less time and stress on each gun but still can take many shots in a day of shooting that way. Plus it keeps me on my toes for each guns characteristics and type of hold I need plus the different feel of the trigger for each gun.

      I know probably a weird way to think but that’s the way I do it.


    • Matt61,

      Reading your reply to Gunfun1 surprised me. I see it more like you must be a glutton for punishment,…. (and that is a compliment). With your many varied interests/pursuits (firearms, air guns, knives, swords, axes, etc.) and learning how to use each one is a major feat in and of itself. Not to mention,….. you go to extreme degree about finding out things work, the history, techniques, etc.. Your depth of knowledge on varied topics is amazing.

      That seems much harder than rotating a few air guns at various distances. Don’t sell yourself short.

      Chris


    • Matt61,

      A good read, as always. The improved 9mm bullets and ammo capacity aside, what do you think of the CZ97B, the CZ in .45 ACP. Of course, CZ offers excellent 9mm pistols.

      ~ken


    • The 45 acp isn’t going to firearms heaven anytime soon US special forces ,Marines and others are returning to the 45.The military is not using expanding ammo and there is no way the overpenetrating 9mm can equal 45 acp hardball ,Shooting at steel plates for trophies is not the same as shooting at steel carrying soldiers playing for keeps .



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