by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Today’s report is another guest blog from reader Ian McKee who writes as 45 Bravo. Today and tomorrow he will tell us of his experience in resealing a Daisy model 41 pellet pistol.
If you’d like to write a guest post for this blog, please email me at blogger@pyramydair.com.
Now, take it away, Ian.
Resealing the Daisy model 41 pellet pistol: Part 1
Ian McKee
Writing as 45Bravo
This report covers:
- Resealing two pellet pistols
- History of the elusive Daisy 41
- Separating fact from fiction
- Three phases of the Daisy pellet pistols
- The outside
- The insides
- Stop
Resealing two pellet pistols
I have resealed dozens of the S&W 78/79 series pistols over the years, and a few of the Daisy 780/790 pistols, but I have never touched one of the Daisy Model 41s.
One of the blog readers reached out to me about resealing a pair of his pistols that have a lot of sentimental attachment. One is an immaculate S&W 79G, the other is the subject of today’s blog.
The S&W reseal went off without a hitch. The pistol still had the factory seals inside, and they crumbled as I tried to remove them. No one had ever been into the pistol since it was new. But that one was easy. It was the model 41 that challenged me.
History of the elusive Daisy 41
This gun’s backstory is the story of the American boy and his pellet gun. He saved the money from his paper route to buy this pistol, and has had it ever since.
I think the Daisy 41 was only produced for 1 year. The Daisy Museum says it ONLY appeared in the 1985 catalog, and they have no records of dates of production, or number of guns produced. The Blue Book of Airguns says it was produced around 1984. I am sure some of our readers who are Daisy collectors will fill in my gaps.
The serial number of this one is 3D00201, so if my information is correct, that decodes as 1983, April, and serial number 00201.
If this gun was made in April 1983, I can’t see Daisy sitting on stock of ready-to-sell guns until the 1985 catalog hit the customers mailboxes. I think it was in the 1984 catalog, especially since the owner of this pistol says he bought it in 1984. But who am I to question the manufacturers?
Separating fact from fiction
From what I have always read and subsequently thought, the Daisy model 41 was the last gasp of the Smith & Wesson target pellet pistol design. Daisy cost-cut the design to the point that it was just a shell of the original design.
I have learned that Daisy had 3 phases of the S&W design, according to the service manual I now have. My service manual is the last one Daisy published for their shop, and covers repairs of the entire lineage of these pistols, from the S&W pistols, to the 41.
Three phases of the Daisy pellet pistols
Phase 1 — the pistols are the same as the S&W 78G and 79G air pistols. [Editor’s note: Usually there are a lot of parts in-process when a transfer like this takes place and the new owners finishes those pistols, which makes them identical to what was being produced.]
Phase 2 — the upper assembly remains the same as the S&W pistols, but it has the redesigned hammer and trigger arrangements that were needed to pass the drop test.
Phase 3 — this is the last run of Daisy 790s and all of the Model 41s. Both guns have the redesigned valve and co2 system.
So, for you dedicated Daisy collectors out there who are looking for the rarest of the rare, according to the service manual, there will be some Daisy 790s that will have the same valve as the 41. Let the hunt begin!
I also had been told by others who had “worked on them,” that the seals were the same, and would interchange.
When you search the Daisy model 41 air pistol online, there are just a few photos of the gun, nothing else. Don’t get sloppy in your search, either. Smith & Wesson also made several versions of a model 41 .22-caliber rimfire target pistol. And they made bunches more of those than Daisy made of the air pistol. Be sure you put Daisy and “air pistol” in your search terms!
Smith & Wesson model 41 target pistol.
Today and tomorrow we will remedy the lack of photos, and we will update the internet searches.
The outside
The Daisy 41 pistol that I was asked to repair appears to be a chrome-plated 790 on the outside. [Editor’s note: All Daisy 41 pistols were plated with chrome. And it is real chrome, which is very rare on a gun. Usually nickel is used to plate guns.]
The left side of the Daisy model 41 air pistol.
Same pistol, right.
The slide and frame are metal. The grip panels, CO2 cap, rear sight, bolt and bolt catch are plastic. The velocity adjustment system below the barrel is plastic, just like on the Daisy 790, phase 2. There is only 1 power level for the cocking lever.
The insides
The two grip panels are removed by 4 Phillips-head screws — two per panel.
The left grip panel is removed to expose where the CO2 cartridge is loaded.
The CO2 cartridge system is very different than the previous models. It uses a face seal around the piercing pin on the bottom of the valve body. The threaded plastic CO2 cap does not have any seals. It is a plain threaded plastic cap with a wire loop that serves as a handle to screw the cap down and push the cartridge into the base of the grip, where the piercing pin is.
The CO2 cap is plastic, with a wire loop that’s used to tighten it. As it tightens it pushes the CO2 cartridge down into the piercing pin.
Looking down on the piercing pin we also see the face seal that seals the CO2 cartridge. This is an important photo because it also shows a unique feature of the CO2 valve that is partially shown in the center of this picture.
Stop
This is BB. I’m ending this report here and breaking it into two reports. This is an important blog and I want to do it right.
Tomorrow I will begin with the disassembly of the Daisy 41 air pistol. Or I should say, 45Bravo will. Stay tuned.
B.B./Ian
Thank you for another look at a fascinating pistol. Does the S&W 46 count as a variation of the 41 or is it an entirely different pistol?
Siraniko
PS: Caption last photo 2nd sentence: This is an important photo because it also shows a unique feature of the CO2 valve that is paretially (partially) shown in the center of this picture.
Siraniko,
Fixed it. Thanks.
The S&W 46 is essentially the same pistol as the 41 with finish changes to make it cheaper. It lacked the checkering as well. Sadly, it was a commercial failure, as people wanted the 41 more.
I owned a 46 for some time and found it very nice.
BB
Ian,
Thanks. I always like going inside. I am not a big fan of CO2, but I still like seeing what makes them tic. I will admit that you have tempted me with your series of the 78/79s.
Now that S&W Model 41 sure is pretty.
The side photos are not that great, but the Daisy 41 looks almost new also, does it not?
RR,
That is a Smith & Wesson Firearm. 😉
BB
BB,
I know.
Yes, other than being 36 years old, for a chrome pistol, being bought by a youngster, it has aged well.
The owner is a firearms enthusiast, and competitive high power shooter, so he takes care of his equipment.
Ian
RR, If you like the ergonomics of the S&W 41, And If you could find an early one with an adjustable trigger you will not be disappointed, that being said the ones without the adjustable trigger are still entirely shootable, you just have to learn the feel of the trigger.
Not having an adjustable trigger is not a deal breaker.
If you like the ergonomics of a Ruger Mark I or MarkII pistol, the Crosman MKI or MKII is your option.
There again, you would not be disappointed.
If it takes a nudge, I will loan you a phase 2 Daisy 790, or a Crosman MKI.
Just to get you hooked.
Ian.
Ian,
LOL! I am afraid that would not do it. I do have an old Daisy Power Line Model 45 that was given to me by my brother-in-law I have been trying to get working, so far without success. It would be kind of fun to fiddle with some, but I am not really a CO2 guy.
I have fooled with them off and on some, but they just are not my thing.
You don’t understand, this loaner does not need work, just shoot and smile and enjoy.
And get hooked.
This will be an interesting reseal. I have a S&W 78G and two 79G’s that I resealed. Will now be able to see the differences Daisy made in the gun.
Jonah,
There certainly are a lot of them!
BB
Ian,
Thank you for a nice look inside the 41. Looking forwards to seeing and learning more. I have not been inside a CO2 other than the 92FS. I had it 100% apart.
In the last pic, the piercing pin looks to be a bit off kilter. Is it? If so,.. an issue?
I also would have expected it to be sharper. It looks rather blunt to be used as a piercing device. It must have worked, so what do I know? 😉
Chris
The photo shown is is before the reseal, that is the factory seal from 1983, it is distorted from being compressed by cartridges over the years.
The piercing pin, is still functional, it does look a little blunt.
The owner of these guns takes care of his equipment, and wants to keep things original, so for both guns, I used new orings, but any other parts replaced were refurbished OEM, or original S&W/Daisy New Old Stock parts, no aftermarket parts or modifications.
Tomorrow you will see what challenges that presented..
Ian
If you think that’s blunt, you should see the 12 gram piercing PLUG used on the TAU 200 rifle, or TAU 7 pistol.
And on the Lov21 air pistol.
This photo is of the cap of the LOV 21 BB wrote about in 2017.
Ian
Ian,
That is blunt! It does not seem like it would perform the task.
On that picture,.. what keeps that from acting like a plug (slowing/stopping gas)?
Chris
That I can not entirely answer.
I know it worked well on both of the TAU guns I have owned in the past, and it seemed like worked on the Lov21 Tom reviewed.
I never examined mine too closely, I know they both came with a special tool to help you get better leverage to pierce the cartridge.
And the Tau guns are still being shipped with the same cap today (they give you 2 of them).
I guess if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
I promise the next one I lay my hands on I will make a closer examination.
After I had an adapter made, I always used bulk fill on both.
Ian.
Fish,
LOL! BB’s collection is not all broken. It just seems that way. 😉
As most sproinger shooters have learned, the more power a sproinger has, the harder it is to hit what you are shooting at. Around 10-12 FPE is really a pretty good range for a well made magnum sproinger. Most of mine are much lower than that.
Being that it is a Weihrauch, I would not turn an HW95/R9 away from RRHFWA if it wished to live here. The truth is all airguns are welcome to visit for a while. Available space does limit how many can take up permanent residence though.
RR,
🙂 I was joking of course; I love BB’s vintage springers.
12 FPE is the key word for .177 springers, I believe as well – still I could ‘tolerate’ upto 15-16 FPE if I have to, so an R9 is always welcome. But, please, don’t put ideas in my mind; I’ve already made my decision!?
Good morning Tom,
Sorry for the off-topic question. A while ago I purchased a Walther Terrus. I love the rifle but I had to adjust the rear open so gets all the way left to make it zero. I called pyramyd air and was told to just adjust the rear sight by loosening the sight screws and readjust. As expected from a German manufactured air rifle, there is no wiggle room. The front sight is definitely not moving. I scoped the rifle with no problem and it is my favorite springer. It just bothers me that it is still that way and I can’t figure out why. An advise? Thank you in advise!
Brad,
Not really. I do have advice, but you won’t like iot. The barrel could be bent to correct the situation. I once owned a 1917 American Enfield with a similar problem. It had been returned to the arsenal and when they installed the barrel they twisted it about three degrees too far. I had to adjust the front sight all the way to the right to zero it, and I disliked the sight picture. So I got rid of it.
BB
Brad,
I don’t own a Terrus but when a properly mounted rear sight requires adjusting to the limit of the L or R Windage and it isn’t an obvious front sight issue the barrel is probably the issue. The front sight is removable and seems to be fastened with two fasteners so are they both equally tight? Is the dovetail miscut/misaligned? I say that since both rear and front sights are attached to the barrel. It doesn’t look like it in the photos but is the barrel a liner inside of a shroud or made of a solid metal tube? If a liner it could be as simple as shimming the muzzle end in the proper direction to move the POI.
/blog/2015/04/walther-terrus-air-rifle-part-1/
Unless your front sight is different from the one shown in B.B. ‘s blog it would seem that some work or replacement of the entire unit is possible.
shootski
Ian and B.B.,
If I’m repeating information relayed above, my apologies.
The Daisy 41 was always in chrome, but the Daisy 780 (.22) and 790 (.177) were blued/black.
https://web.archive.org/web/20110121133709/http://co2airguns.net/Collection/Daisy%20790/index.htm
https://web.archive.org/web/20110121133618/http://co2airguns.net/Collection/Daisy%20780/index.htm
Michael
Thought this was interesting about the S & W models 78G & 79G and the Daisy models 780 & 790:
https://recalls.justia.com/outdoor-recreation-and-sports/gun-accessories/83-066/
https://recalls.justia.com/outdoor-recreation-and-sports/gun-accessories/83-066/img/3109/
As the original owner of this old Daisy 41 since 1984 (at age 14), I would like to publicly thank Bravo45 for offering to re-seal this odd-ball air pistol this year. I should note that this pistol is not nearly new, and was shot *extensively* by me and my high school buddies in the mid-to-late 1980s, before I went off to college. I used it on a few occasions in the mid-1990s after college.
One memory/bit of trivia I just recalled: At Halloween in 1995 some of my buddies from college/grad school and I dressed up as the various character’s of the then-new movie “Pulp Fiction” for a costume party. I played John Travola’s part, and this chrome pistol was part of my costume for the contest…I recall we came in 3rd place. Anyhow, by the mid-to-late 1990s it was starting to leak air, and it basically sat unused for over 20+ years.
Fwiw, I wanted to have it re-sealed 10 or 11 years ago by another air gun hobbyist repair person, but after he removed the grips and studied the internal mechanism, he noted the design was “too different” from the earlier S&W 78G/79G pistols, and he didn’t feel confident (or overly interested?) in trying to re-seal it, so he sent it back to me, and refunded the money I had included for the re-seal. Thus it sat unused for another decade plus until I sent this Daisy 41 and my S&W 79G to 45Bravo, who graciously agreed to restore it to the best of his ability, given the lack of spare parts. Here’s the picture of it with the original manual that I kept.
Anyhow, I look forward to Part 2 of this article…
Random,
Thanks for that update. It’s nice to know what’s behind these airguns.
BB
Random,
It is for sure “Pulp Fiction” worthy! 😉 I just caught the movie (again,.. x?) the other day in fact. I am glad that you are getting it up and running again.
’95 Halloween eh? Not so sure I would do that again in these times. 😉 SWAT would be beating the door down within 10 minutes!
Chris
Digressing somewhat, but it was actually it was Halloween 1994 now that think about it (same year the movie came out). Costume party was in a southern college town, Chapel Hill. I kind-of doubt the local police dept had much of a SWAT team back then, if at all… One of my assignments in a criminal justice class I took my senior year was to spend a Friday evening riding around in the front seat of a police car as they responded to 911 police calls, and I asked a lot of questions about what kinds of criminal activity was common, etc. The police officer was originally from New York and I recall that he noted being a cop in Chapel Hill was a “dream job” for him. Why? Violent crime in the 1990s in that town was rare. I recall only 2 instances of homicide over the years there, both were quite shocking at the time. Over in certain areas of Durham, NC there was indeed drug-related violet crime etc, but not really on the Duke or UNC-CH campus. I never saw or heard about any SWAT activity in that town, but I get your point.
Anyhow, glad that 45Bravo was able to assist in my little restoration project of an air pistol from my youth.
B.B. and Readership,
Today is a day to Remember Pearl Harbor!
More than twothousandthreehundred men and women lost their lives on this day 79 years ago. Twenty-one US Navy major combatants were lost or damaged.
“A day that will live on in infamy!”
Pearl Harbor!
REMEMBER
Somehow, reading today’s post, the Crosman C40 came to my mind. Can anyone (B.B.) give me some more information about this? I think it would be an equivalent to the Umarex line of pistols/revolvers. Was it too expensive being made in the USA?
Thanks in advance.
Bill,
Crosman released the silver C40 as a 75th anniversary gun in about 1998. The black colored CB40 was released a year or two after the C40. Its essentially an 8 shot revolver dressed up look like a semi-auto. Takes 12g CO2 cartridges. Has a rifled .177 barrel and loads from circular clips that hold 8 pellets each. Can be manually cocked and fired single action or used in double action. There’s a slide release lever on the left side that lets the barrel tip upward to change the 8-round rotary clip. The CO2 goes in the grip–right side as I recall. There’s an adjustable lever cam to pierce the cartridge. It was a relatively new piercing design at the time.
I remember there was noise in the marketplace for Crosman to return to their roots and make some metal framed CO2 guns again. We were lamenting the demise of the MK1/MK2 and the 38T and 38C… Umarex was also starting to gain market share with their new Walther CP88.
Anyway, the Crosman was considered a good shooter and a pretty good deal at about $125 or so. The only thing I was disappointed with was the sharp serrations on the trigger blade. Made it painful to shoot more than a few clips. Oh, the top of the pistol has an 11mm dovetail. With a red dot, the pistol was quite accurate in single action mode.