El Gamo David breakbarrel air rifle: Part 3

by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

El Gamo David
The El Gamo David is a lower-powered breakbarrel from the 1960s or’ 70s.

Part 1
Part 2

History of airguns

This report covers:

  • Bear is eaten
  • The new seal
  • However!
  • Where were we?
  • H&N Finale Match Heavy
  • RWS Meisterkugeln Rifle
  • H&N Finale Light
  • Something different
  • RWS Hobbys
  • Air Arms Falcon domes
  • Smooth!
  • Re-test
  • Trigger pull
  • Summary

Bear is eaten

…and sometimes you eat the bear! As I reported in Part 2 nearly a month ago, the breech seal of the El Gamo David was old and suspect. It was damaged by removing it for inspection. I ordered the replacement breech seal for the rifle from TW Chambers in the UK. It was at my house in less than two weeks.

El Gamo seal Chambers
The El Gamo seal from TW Chambers arrived in less than two weeks.

The new seal

When I saw the new seal I could see that it wasn’t a simple one. El Gamo had formed what looked like an o-ring on top of the much taller seal, which confused me when I first started to take the old seal out. At first I thought it was just an o-ring, but as more came out of the hole and I saw how large it was I thought that it had somehow deformed the top into that shape in the gun over the years. Neither of those was the case, though. El Gamo had made it that way intentionally. There must be a technical advantage to the size of the seal, but I don’t know what it is. Why didn’t El Gamo just cut a shallower groove in the breech and use a commercial o-ring? Like I say, there must be an advantage to doing it this way — I just don’t know what it is.

However!

After ordering the new seal I learned that El Gamo had made this seal in three different sizes — small, medium and large. I wasn’t sure which size the David seal was, though it was so large I felt it had to be the large one.

Then reader Gnom256 contacted me, offering to send me a breech seal for the Gamo Maxima (no longer stocked by Pyramyd Air), which he said should fit the David, as well. Now, Gnom256 lives in Moscow — nearly half a world away from Texas, and since I already had a seal en route I normally would have said no thanks, but because these breech seals came in three sizes I felt it would be good to have options if the Chambers seal didn’t fit. I told Gnom256 what I had learned and he sent me the dimensions of the seal he was sending. It was 10mm high, 7.7mm inner diameter and 14mm outer. I measured the David seal and found it to be the same size so I asked him to please send me a seal, as well. He sent me five! And they are a perfect fit

David seals Gnom
Reader Gnom256 sent me 5 breech seals for the El Gamo David. They are a perfect fit.

The Chambers seal fits the David almost perfectly. It is about 1mm too short, and a thin credit card shim (0.73mm/0.0287-inches) underneath the bottom raises it up to the right height. So the David now has a new breech seal of the correct height.

I used the Chambers seal just to see if my shim idea worked, which it did. I had the seals sent by Gnom256 in reserve in case I had to dig the Chambers seal out again.

Where were we?

Now today’s velocity test can begin. In Part Two I had just tested the H&N Finale Match Heavy pellet and got an average of 480 f.p.s. for a string of ten. The low was 464 and the high was 487, so the spread was 23 f.p.s. Then I examined the breech seal and damaged it while removing it, so I decided to replace it. This is where we will start today.

H&N Finale Match Heavy

I started with the same pellet as in Part 2. Ten H&N Finale Match Heavy pellets now averaged 471 f.p.s. The low was 460 and the high was 486 f.p.s. So the spread was 26 f.p.s. At the average velocity this pellet generates 4.03 foot pounds at the muzzle. Compared to the rifle with the old breech seal the rifle with the new seal is slightly slower, has a slightly broader variance and generated slightly less energy at the muzzle. Sometimes when you do things like I did they don’t turn out like you expect, but how was I to know that before doing it?

RWS Meisterkugeln Rifle

The next pellet I tested was the 8.2-grain RWS Meisterkugeln Rifle wadcutter. Ten of them averaged 449 f.p.s. The low was 431 and the high was 464 f.p.s. That’s a spread of 33 f.p.s. At the average velocity the muzzle energy generated was 3.67 foot-pounds.

H&N Finale Light

Next up was the 7.87-grain H&N Finale Light pellet. They averaged 483 over a string of ten. The low was 470 and the high was 492 f.p.s., so a spread of 22 f.p.s. At the average velocity this pellet generated an energy of 4.08 foot pounds.

Something different

At this point in the test I decided to see what effect seating the pellet deep in the breech would have. So I pushed each pellet into the barrel with a ballpoint pen. This time the same 7.87-grain H&N Finale Match Light pellet averaged 516 f.p.s. Wow — an increase of 33 f.p.s.! The spread for this string went from a low of 511 to a high of 521 f.p.s., so a difference of 10 f.p.s. At the average velocity the deep-seated pellet generated 4.65 foot pounds of energy.

Clearly the David seems to “like” its pellet seated deep. The velocity increased, the spread decreased and of course the energy increased with the velocity. So, from this point on in the test, I seated all pellets deep with a ballpoint pen.

RWS Hobbys

I tried to test RWS Hobbys but they fit the breech so tightly that I was unable to seat them deep. Two 7-grain Hobbys generated 449 and 445 f.p.s. and I stopped testing them after that.

Air Arms Falcon domes

The last pellet I tested was the 7.33-grain dome Falcon from Air Arms. These fit the breech well and averaged 551 f.p.s. when seated deep. Wow! Better yet, the spread for a 10-shot string went from 541 to 553 f.p.s. — a difference of just 12 f.p.s. At the average velocity the Falcon generated 4.94 foot-pounds — the highest energy seen in the test thus far.

Smooth!

But best of all, the Falcons shot incredibly smooth! Only a few times in my experience have I experienced a pellet that shot this smoothly. This is definitely a pellet to watch for the David!

Re-test

Having seen such a dramatic change when the pellets were seated deep I went back and shot another string of H&N Match Heavys. Instead of a 471 f.p.s. average they now averaged 506 f.p.s. — a 35 f.p.s. increase. The 26 f.p.s. spread dropped to just 15 f.p.s. — 499 to 516 f.p.s.! At the average velocity this pellet now generates 4.65 foot pounds instead of 4.03 foot pounds. Deep-seating the pellet is the way to go with this rifle.

I also revisited the RWS Meisterkugeln Rifle pellet. The new average was 487 f.p.s. instead of 449 f.p.s. — a 38 f.p.s. increase! The new spread dropped from 33 f.p.s. to 27 f.p.s. (472 to 499 f.p.s.). The new muzzle energy went up from 3.67 foot pounds to 4.32 foot pounds.

With every pellet tested, deep-seating was the way to go. The difference was dramatic in all areas. I believe we now have not only a good performance baseline on the David, we also know a lot more about how to operate it to get the best it  has to offer.

Trigger pull

I did the cocking effort in Part 2. The David cocks with 15 pounds of effort. But I didn’t test the trigger pull. 

The David trigger is two-stage. Stage one takes a pull of 1 lb. 9 oz. When it stops at stage two the stop is definite. Stage two releases at 5 lbs. 8 oz. I wouldn’t call the trigger release crisp, but it is consistent. The pull feels heavy for as light as this rifle is. Maybe I should pop the stock and see if I can lubricate the trigger parts before shooting for accuracy.

Summary

We are now caught up on the El Gamo David. It is performing well, though a brand new one is probably a little faster, but not enough to worry about it. With the Falcon pellet the David shoots as smooth as any spring piston rifle I’ve ever tested.

Accuracy comes next, with perhaps a brief excursion into the powerplant — or at least the trigger.

141 thoughts on “El Gamo David breakbarrel air rifle: Part 3

  1. B.B.,

    The only reason I can think of regarding the breech seal design is it’s due to how the barrel was installed into the block which necessitated that kind of seal. Maybe their tooling couldn’t leave a small enough groove for a simple O-ring forcing them to use that proprietary seal.

    Siraniko


  2. The tooling is an interesting explanation.

    The only other thing I can think of is if it could provide some sort of shock absorption to reduce vibration, even though the gun is already low powered.



  3. BB,

    Glad you got it up and running. That bump from deep seating of pellets is quite impressive. I like the idea of the bigger seal. To me, it would be better in that it has more “squish” and less likely to take a set and not fall out. Certainly more expensive to machine the pocket for it.

    Looking forwards to the accuracy test.

    Chris


    • Chris
      I forgot to ask you something the other day when we was talking about velocity with the 499 and Red Ryder.

      You said you put the 1938 spring in your 499. What kind of velocity spread did you have when you chronyed your 499 with that 1938 spring? I had a pretty small velocity spread with my out of the box Adult Red Ryder and 499.

      Just wondering.




          • GF1,

            About 24 feet and 10 shots in 1/2″ or less. I have not shot it past that other than 41′ a few times. The POI raised 2″ (3″?) at 41′ with the RR spring. Not sure without checking.

            I wish the trigger unit had a swap in unit. There is a mod., but I ain’t grinding/reshaping parts. I am pretty sure that is was riveted together too. It could be as easy as get it apart, polish a bit, re-lube, maybe swap out too heavy of spring or two and done? Don’t know.

            Chris


            • Chris
              Trigger on what gun?

              My 499 trigger is absolutely great. Its a very distinct 2 stage trigger with a fairly light pull.

              Now the Red Ryder trigger is another story. I thought about looking into swapping a 499 trigger into the Red Ryder.

              I still may see if I can get another 499 trigger and see if i can make it work in a Red Ryder.


  4. BB,

    If one could gather all the super-duper top secret theoretical engineering notations on break barrel seals from all the manufactures over the years, it might be some very interesting reading. Well, at least to airgun nerds like me. Why is this seal so deep? Why is another shallow? Why is one wide and another thin? Why is one on the breech and another on the block?

    Patents? Availability? Brother-in-law?



  5. I have difficulty believing that these are proprietary seals. I would think that manufacturing pressures would have sought an off the shelf solution. It seems like I’ve run into something similar size and shape in the past. I wonder if BB would send one of the seals to The O-Ring Store, maybe they could help.


  6. Deep seating just made a quantum leap. I knew from reading this blog that deep seating a pellet often gave a small boost to velocity. I have tested it for accuracy many times and not found it to make a difference. But now we have proof that in this gun it provides much more consistency as well as velocity. If shooting at say 25 yards one would think deep seating would eliminate or minimize vertical stringing for this gun. I hope BB will shoot at least one group for comparison.

    Deck


  7. What B.B. knows. Your Blog was perfect for me yesterday. My friend had a CO2 rifle the would just barely shoot. I brought over some Pellgun oil. Now it’s back to new. I did leave him my pellgun oil as a early Xmas gift. Told him B.B. says just 1 drop on every CO2 cartridge he’ll be good for awhile.

    He wanted to thank me. I said to thank B.B. not me. So here is your thanks.

    Speakski


  8. B.B.,

    As I read the two previous parts of this report, I kept thinking about how much this air rifle looks like my beat up vintage BSA Meteor. Today I was surprised to see the unusually deep, cylindrical breech seal. My “just rebuilt” Meteor came with no breech seal (and no trigger return spring), and it has a deep space for it, just like this Gamo.

    I know of Gamo’s purchase of BSA not too long ago, but did Gamo have a relationship with BSA many years ago as well?

    Michael



      • B. B.,
        Gamo bought the BSA name and its assets when they went into liquidation in 1986.
        I’m not at all sure of any connection between the El Gamo David and the BSA Meteor. The David pre-dates Gamos acquisition of BSA but I suspect the Meteor was in production long before little David.
        If I could get this sort of consistency from a Meteor I would be very happy.

        Regards,
        Drew


  9. BB, maybe the barrel threads in to the base block and having different seal heights allowed Gamo to have some flexibility when it comes to tolerancing the components during assembly? I guess the idea never really caught on, whatever it is, but it is great news that somebody is willing to take the time and trouble to make this part.Looks like a urethane to me.Then there is durometer to consider for this part. It really is a small world with the internet.
    Rob


  10. Great results with deep-seating those pellets!

    If I had to guess why the breech seal was so tall I would think it would be to have an increased compression range to compensate for loose tolerances.

    An off the shelf O-ring would be a cheaper solution but is best for parts that are fairly close together.

    A “rubber” cylinder with its inside and outside dimensions constrained the way the David’s breech seal is would be able to apply much more sealing-force across a larger gap than a simple O-ring.

    I have made small “shock absorbers” and “springs” with surgical rubber tubing using this same principle.

    Hank


  11. “With every pellet tested, deep-seating was the way to go. The difference was dramatic in all areas.”
    B.B.,
    I see that you are getting 14 to 18% increases in energy just by deep seating…impressive, for sure!
    I’ll add that to my knowledge bin for future reference; thank you. =>
    Take care & God bless,
    dave


  12. I like looking for air rifles in pawnshops but I’m about done with it, especially with springers. Most dealers don’t seem to know anything about them. I’ve found so many on display that were cocked and ready to go off.
    Happened to me today. I was looking at a replica nitro piston M 16 that Crossman used to sell. I had it pointed at the ceiling and was checking on the safety and the trigger, when it went off. It obviously had a hair trigger from somebody that did the trigger modification to it that’s on YouTube. Accident waiting to happen so I’m glad I found it first. I’m normally an easy-going guy but when he got after me I told him that he should’ve checked whether it was cocked before he put it on display. He asked me if I was going to buy one and I said “I have from you ( and said under my breath “and never again, Bubba”) and walked out. Any tips for preventing the situation from happening in the future when you’re examining a spring air rifle. Might be a good topic for a blog.

    Brent


    • Brent
      That guy don’t need to have guns in his pawnshop.

      The pawn shops and firearm shops I go to will always check the gun before they hand it to a customer.

      I can’t say it any other way but that was bad on his part.

      And secondly I would not accept handling that gun until he showed me the action was clear and safe no matter what kind of gun it was.

      That was a big liability on his part. That’s crazy stuff there.



        • Brent
          I know what you mean about people and airguns.

          But that guy that owns that pawnshop apparently doesn’t know anything about safe gun handling.

          If it was my shop there is no way I would hand someone a gun until I knew it was clear. Thats it plain and simple. No other way to look at it.


        • Brent,

          It is not only many treating them as toys, but handling them out of ignorance. A local gun shop sells a couple of break barrel sproingers. They have taken a few from time to time in on trade. I have found some cocked, for who knows how long. Scary.


          • RR, Everbody,

            What did you do? Try to decock them by holding the barrel and pulling the trigger? I know you can’t decock many springers because of the anti-bear trap or can you? I guess I would rather shoot them off and take the heat than leave an accident waiting to happen.

            Brent


  13. B.B. and most esteemed Readership,

    NOT SO FAST! “With every pellet tested, deep-seating was the way to go. The difference was dramatic in all areas. I believe we now have not only a good performance baseline on the David, we also know a lot more about how to operate it to get the best it has to offer.” How is it that “The difference was dramatic in all areas.”? The only areas were MV and ES? I thought i had this alone until Decksniper posted above: ” I have tested it for accuracy many times and not found it to make a difference.” That AREA – ACCURACY after all is the very most important of all the areas to us shooters. Although Deck has found deep seating to not have made a difference I must report that with bullets (aka Slugs) in Big Bore (and even .25 caliber bullets) i have found that seating depth does make a difference in accuracy at least some of the time. This is a link to the LASC Site:

    http://www.lasc.us/BellmChamberThroatWhatIs.htm

    It is for cartridge loaded projectiles so you will need to do a little mental work to remove the effect(s) of the case (the typically brass part that holds the powder and primer and a bullet) sticking out of the casemouth in front held inside a chamber leading to the barrel throat (Leade.) I will do an Executive Summary to help you decide if it is worth the reading time – “In normal applications, the throat is nothing more, nor less than an area in the barrel immediately in front of the chamber neck that allows the bullet in a loaded round to project out into the rifled part of the barrel. For this to be possible, the rifling must be cut away. Thus, the throat is actually the groove diameter of the barrel with the rifling cut away.
    For best accuracy, the groove diameter of the barrel should be enlarged very little if at all, and then only enough to allow a bullet to fit in it. This insures that the shank of the bullet is supported and guided as it is forced into the rifling. To do this, the area in front of the chamber neck must be a cylinder, not a cone. If it is a cone, then only the loose fit of the case neck in the chamber neck gives any alignment and support of the bullet as it enters the rifled part.

    With at least several thousandths of movement possible in any random direction at the case neck, even if the bullet is centered in the rifling at its nose, as in seating bullets out to the rifling, the base of the bullet can still deviate in any direction out of alignment with the bore, and thus enters the rifling at an angle, canted, cockeyed, or whatever term you relate to that means it did not go in straight.

    This throws the bullet out of balance and accounts for much of the inaccuracy in all barrels. This is not my dreamed up hypothesis. In addition to my own observations, it is also confirmed by a nationally prominent scientist and shooter, Harold Vaughn, in his highly technical book “Rifle Accuracy Facts.” In his book, Vaughn went so far as to measure the actual amount of bullet dispersion at the target caused by specific angles of “cant” of the bullet as it enters the rifling. The straighter the bullet enters the rifling, the greater its potential for hitting in the same place as the bullets fired before and after it.

    The taper cut on the ends of the rifling, also known as the “leade,” helps center the bullet as it enters the rifling, and the longer this angle is (presumably within limits), generally the better the leade guides the bullet straight into the rifling.”

    Now if that interested you rather than put you to sleep you should click on the link above and read all of the article.

    Then you can rethink bullet/pellet seating depth and the total effect on ES, MV, and accuracy.

    shootski


    • Shootski
      How about this. I have found deep seating to work on some guns and not others.

      And that’s just one more of the things that experienced air gunners know to try.

      This just made me think of something.

      Maybe experienced air gunners should compile a list of things we go through to try to get airguns to shoot and then post them.

      On the car forums that would become a sticky at the top of every page so people could read them before asking questions on the forum.


    • Shootski
      You asked a little while back if I was going to pattern my Wingshot ll I got.

      Well finally got some time off today and the wind was pretty mild. And yep I know why wait for a calm day to pattern a shotgun. But I want to start there first. The windy weather patterning will happen too.

      But this pattern is at 20 yards and I’m shooting both different distances at the full power cocking position. The reason being is I will be hunting or pesting with the gun. So low power cocking will be used for plinking when I do. But I will probably pattern the low power setting later on too.

      Also I took the pictures of the back side of the pattern targets so hopefully the holes show up better. And I put a yard stick in both pictures so you can see the size of the pattern. Basically 8 inches at 20 yards.




        • Gunfun1,

          That is much better than i expected; looking good!

          That could prove to be a real starling flock buster!

          Now you need to quadrant or ‘pie slice’ the pattern to see how even your distribution is with this load so you can do a comparison report on other loads for us ;^)

          shootski


          • Shootski
            Yep the starlings.

            And yep also need to do that with some windy weather patterns. Probably going to be more windy day shooting then calm ones I’m thinking.

            But it does seem to be distributing the bird shot pretty good. And they do make different chokes for the Wingshot also.

            But what still amazes me is how easy the gun points. I aim it just like a firearm shotgun when I’m leading it. In at the closer distances I’m going to shoot at works out for how I shoot firearm shotguns. And the big thing is no recoil compared to the firearm shot gun. I can shoot the Wingshot all day long and not even get tired from getting my shoulder pounded like from firearm shotgun shooting. And the distance that rabbits and birds flush up at is what the Wingshot likes. Heck a firearm shotgun will blow the shoulders or hind quarters right off a squirrel or rabbit. And waste a quail if your too close. Basically wasted meat. So yep I think the Wingshot will be a good balance of paterning and power for the distance the game will run at.

            We will see that’s for sure.

            Just amazing what air guns will do now days.


            • GF1,

              “….. I think the Wingshot will be a good balance of paternity …..”. Paternity? So the Mom and Dad have equal balance in the rearing. 😉

              Patterning,… perhaps? Or,.. as Shootski would put it,.. quadrant distribution.

              🙂 Chris


              • Chris
                I know. I just corrected it. Good ole phone thinks it knows what I want to say all the time.

                And maybe so though. What’s the old rock song.

                My daddy was a Gibson my momma was a Fender That’s why they call me, Mindbender.

                Maybe it is paternity. 😉




        • Brent
          Yep I will probably try 6 shot too.

          But the way I see it is that rabbit or squirrel will have to shrink down to the size of a sparrow to fit through that hole in the middle of the pattern and not get hit.

          But what I kept wondering is why that happened because the Wingshot has a smooth bore. I figured that’s what would happen with a rifled barrel.

          But in reality I’m not worried about that at all. Now if it was a 6 inch hole then I would be worried. But what does need to happen is I need to do some more patterns and watch what happens to see if that hole is there or if it changes.

          I will be watching for sure. And I wondered if anybody would see that.


          • Gunfun1,

            One board does not a scatterguns pattern make. The chokes may be very INTERESTING!

            This sounds on your early comments like one you probably won’t ever be selling….

            shootski


            • Shootski
              It wouldn’t hurt to try the chokes that’s for sure.

              And nope I’ll own this one till I go to the happy hunting grounds in the sky. Mine till the end.

              I stopped shooting firearm shotguns because my shoulder isn’t in good shape from all the shot gun shooting I done as a kid and growing up. That’s why I got heavy into airguns. I got to shoot still and was more relaxing.

              So yep a smooth shooting shot gun is what I have been after for a long time. I’m happy. 🙂



          • Siraniko
            The shot shells I have do seem to fit pretty precise in the bore.

            And the plastic shot shell does act like the wading. As soon as the shots fired there is a plug that is in the back of the shell. It pushes forward and gets the birdshot down the barrel ahead of the plastic shot shell is what I’m thinking. Because I have found a few more pieces of the plastic shot shells only 5 to 10 yards away from the gun.

            I think the real trick will be getting one of the tighter chokes they sale for the Wingshot and Wingshot ll.

            I’m going to see thats for sure.


    • Shootski

      I do try deep seating for accuracy and will continue because it is so easy to do. Even the Crosman 160 based rifles are easy to deep seat using an Allen wrench. But I only do it every time on guns that don’t easily accept its favorite accuracy pellet (binding, skirt size). My fun is trying to get the smallest groups possible so I try most anything. Gunfun1’s idea of listing things readers try for accuracy is a good one.

      I’m hoping David proves to be more accurate with deep seating.

      Deck



  14. B.B.,

    I had a low powered Gamo in 1976 or 77. It looked much like the David. I let it go for a song to a boy in the neighbor. I think his father shot it as much as he did.

    This season is difficult. Bear with me or go to the end for an air rifle report.

    On 11/18 my wife underwent surgery to remove cancer at the back of her throat. She had a trachyotomy and trach tube inserted.
    I will only do highlights.
    She was discharged to home on 11/25. Then after the second ambulance ride to the local ER, they transferred her back to the medical center in Houston.
    This time she was treated with antibiotics and oxygen.
    She in an RN whose career was ended by a drunk driver who eventually escaped to Mexico. Anyway, she is more than savvy about medical issues. I just follow directions and hope for the best.
    She will be home soon. Recovery will be long.

    Last week, I received a call from the nursing home my brother has been living in for the past year and half. He was confused and losing consciousness. He was sent to a local hospital. Not sure if he was tested there or the nursing home, upon his return; he tested positive for Covid-19.
    They sent him to another nursing home where their parent company was caring for Covid cases within their homes.
    Bad to worse, that home had to take him to a hospital ER and he was admitted. The report is that he was unconscious and on a respirator. Now he has been transferred to hospice care. I will not even be able to see him alive again. Back in March I made the drive to see him. I only got in the front door. They had received orders to lock down only minutes before my arrival. I have been looking forward to more time together.
    Dammit!!

    I have done something I have done in the past when seriously. I spent more money than usual.
    This time I have bought an Umerax Origin. It feels like a toy compared to the Mauraders. But, I have watched seven videos read a few reviews. I had wanted to get a Maurader in .22 but I will settle for this one. I suppose this my Christmas present to myself, but I would give it up and a lot more for things that are out of my control.

    I do hope you are well, my friend, and all of your readers and contributors, as well.

    God bless,
    ~ken


  15. B.B.,

    I was looking back through the report on the David. I probably missed it, but was the piston seal leather or synthetic. My Expo had a leather seal.

    Update: my brother was taken off respirator. His breathing is labored and he remains unconscious. He is in hospice care now. That is all I need to know about the doctors’ expectations.

    ~ken







          • BB,
            By the bye, did you mean, ‘I got you,’ like ‘yeah, I knew that you were talking about the rifle, silly,’ or ‘aah, you were talking about the rifle…?’ 🙂
            Fish


            • Fish,

              Probably the “aah…”.

              It is nice looking. I really like the looks of that stock. The Turks are really paying attention to the American market, as is the rest of the world.

              There are many airguns throughout the world that we do not see. They must first convince an American distributor that it would be profitable for them to import their models. The distributor must also convince the dealers of such. Then everybody has to convince us that it is worth that much.

              I noticed it has a Hawke sitting on top of it.


              • RR,
                If I were living on the other side of the world, then I would probably whine about the rifles that weren’t sold there. I guess it’s human nature to want things that’s hard to get. 🙂 I’m happy with what’s avaliable here at the end of the day, all thanks to Weihrauch springers.


                • Fish,

                  I have sproingers aging from 1906 until modern times. Of the modern sproingers, I have a Weihrauch HS30S. IMMHO, Weihrauch are the ONLY sproingers I would buy. With any other sproinger on the market today, the quality is below what I personally would tolerate.

                  The only sproinger other than a Weihrauch that I suspect may be close, is the ASP20. BB says they are great, but I myself have not tried one. I personally think it is too big and heavy, but since I have never tried one…


                  • RR,
                    You have one of the most magnificient springer collections I’ve ever known; it makes so much sense to me.
                    After retiring my 27s, I decided that the next springer I’ll buy shall be an HW30S. One thing followed another, and I found this blog. The next few months, I realized there were so much I didn’t know. I learned about every other air rifle in the market thanks to the folks I met here and decided that my very first decision was the right one. I was almost going to buy a 30S from AOA, but then they increased the prices. That actually has settled it, PA sells the R7s at a cheaper price with a life long warranty and ambi stock, so this will be the easiest decision ever. Plus side, I have not come across any galling issue complaints about 30S/R7s recently – not a single one in the last two years. Maybe Weihrauch secretly addressed the issue, huh?
                    I don’t like ASP20, too much power for my taste.


                    • Fish,

                      LOL! BB has the most magnificent sproinger collection. The truth is many of mine came from him!

                      I picked my HW30S up used and because I was buying it for my grandson, I was given a real sweet deal. You will not go wrong buying a Weihrauch.

                      I am not much of a power freak when it comes to sproingers. Quite the opposite. On my round tuit list is to slowly reduce the power of my Webley/Hatsan Tomahawk to a level I like. It will likely end up a little more powerful than an HW50, but not much.

                      If I want real, accurate, long range power I go for my PCPs.


                  • RR,
                    But BB’s vintage springers are broken and bent here and there. 😉 :^b 🙂
                    I agree with you on springers… In my book, 30S is decent powered, and 50S is magnum. Even R9 is a little too much for me. I loved 27s, because they’re almost same size with R9s but weaker than 50Ss – which I believe makes it so smooth to shoot as the weight absorbs the recoil. I wonder if BB would upload a photo of an R9 and a 27 next to each other.


      • BB,
        The beginning of the second video I think gave you the wrong idea. Please watch it again if you have time; it’s actually about ATA Airborn PCPs, not the range. If you don’t have time, it’s very well fine too.
        Fish.


  16. Gungun1,

    Thank you for your support.

    I found a pellet lodged at page 438 and paper was pressed through to page 484. Not very scientific but I’m impressed.

    One report says 14.3 grain Crosman Premiers produced a max of 30.47 people at the muzzle with an average fpe of 20.44 over 60 shots.

    Everyone I have seen is impressed with accuracy, at least to 50 yards.

    A fellow who goes by the handle of Hajimoto has a great half hour video where he is even more methodical, showing how to use various PSI values and hammer tension to maximize. The upshot is that you can shoot heavier pellets at lower PSI, although fewer shots than shootings starting from max PSI. He also shot a few slugs at 50 yards, with good results.
    The only thing I am concerned about is how metal has been replaced by synthetics. This includes the receiver, including the scope mounting (I need to review some things to get terms correct. The rifle uses a side lever. The lever does move some metal parts, but the lever is synthetic. I will watch where I apply pressure.
    I think I see how they kept the price down, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they failed to produce quality. This is no Red Wolf, so I want even try to compare. So far. I think this is just part of the evolution of the Benjamin Discovery to produce the best starter PCP possible. Of course, getting the rifle is just the beginning.

    Much more than I intended, but I will let it stand.

    ~ken


    • Ken
      I just read above. Sorry to hear. And you know God has a plan.

      And the gun has synthetic. They have made connecting rods on engines out of synthetic of some sort. I have some faith in synthetic.

      Will be interesting to hear how your gun does in all aspects.

      Keep us updated when you find the time.


  17. Gunfun1,

    Thank you.

    I know there synthetics that are very tough. I don’t know what synthetic Umarex used. I expect they had a minimum standard going in and hopefully exceeded that. One reviewer made a point to state that the stock feels solid, not hollow. I won’t be throwing it around, though. I will report back for sure. As usual, best accuracy was achieved with JSB heavies. I will have to stick with Crosman and Benjamin hollow points for a while and I have other .22 pellets to use at 20 yards is less.

    ~ken


    • Ken
      Hmm. Maybe I will get one some day.

      And I got one of those Hatsan lever actions a while back. Which I don’t own anymore. But one of my buddy’s does now. He likes it. And from what I remember it had a synthetic reciever.

      Will be interesting to see how it all works out. Will be waiting to hear more.


  18. BB.
    Welcome to the pellet seaters club! “Having seen such a dramatic change when the pellets were seated deep” now I think last year ( or this year ?) I mentioned I was seating my pellets into my F.E.G telly Relum. With no seating the pellet came out very slow or not at all. Seating the very same pellet into the barrel about 30 to 40mm with a custom made seating tool… well it was shooting through tin cans at 6 meters. The difference is significant! Joy! Robert.


    • Robert,

      30-40 mm is CRAZY! That is like 1 5/16″ to 1 5/8″! That is not deep seating,.. that is something else altogether!

      Hey,… if it works,…………. 😉

      Chris


  19. Hi Chris,
    No it’s not crazy! In fact it might more than 40mm !!! I did some experiments with the HN field target pellets, pushing them farther and farther into the bore. At a er…. 2″ maybe, they really rocket out of my Telly Relum. Stands to reason, the pellets are now formed to the rifling and are free to skoot along. This was discovered when my pellets were sticking in the bore. I would poke them down a bit more then they would fire out. But at high speed. It’s a bit like that unrifled but the last few inches bore idea that some makers use. Even made special seating tools! Ok lets call them “pokers”… Is it cricket ? I am not sure but it works! Power is not being wasted forming the pellet into the lands and is used to propel the pellet on it’s way. and it’s cheap! the long straight one is for the Relum and the “round the corner” one is for the Gamo. : – ) Robert.


Leave a Reply