by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Daisy 35 multi-pump pneumatic
This report covers:
- The test
- Sight-in
- RWS Superdomes
- JSB Exact RS
- RWS Hobby
- Discussion
- Summary
Today I test the Daisy 35 multi-pump with a dot sight. Will that sight make the airgun any more accurate? That’s the test. I mounted the UTG Reflex Micro green dot sight.
The test
I shot from the same 10 meters, rested. I used 8 pumps per shot, just as before. I tried to use the same pellets but I couldn’t find the tin of Norma Golden Trophy pellets, so I substituted RWS Superdomes in their place. I have been told that these Norma pellets are equivalent to the RWS line.
I shot 10-shot groups, just as before. The only difference today, other than the pellet substitution was the sight. And I wore my regular glasses — not the reading glasses I wear when I shoot with open sights.
Sight-in
It was difficult to sight-in the 35. Any airgun that makes 2-inch groups at 10 meters is going to be difficult to sight in. I started at 10 feet and had to adjust the dot down and to the left a lot. When I got two shots that went to the same place I backed up to 20 feet and kept sighting-in. After two shots were good at that distance I backed up to 10 meters and continued the sight-in.
All things considered, it took about 12 shots to get the gun sighted-in. Then I shot the first group of RWS Superdomes.
RWS Superdomes
It was a fortunate thing that I shot Superdomes today because they gave me the best group of the test. Ten of them went into 1.963-inches at 10 meters. The group is fairly well centered on the bull. It’s just off to the left a little.
Ten RWS Superdomes went into 1.963-inches at 10 meters. This is the best group of today’s test.
JSB Exact RS
The next pellet I tested was the JSB Exact RS dome. In Part 3 ten of these made a 2.591-inch group. Today with the dot sight ten went into 3.326-inches. Well — that’s no better, is it? Apparently I can shoot just as well with open sights as with a dot — at least this time!
Ten JSB RS domes made this 3.326-inch group at 10 meters. The first shot was in the black near the center, which is why I continued with the group without adjusting the sight. Shot two is that large round hole at the upper left. It looks like it was shot with a wadcutter but I saw it form as I shot. This is why a gun that shoots wide is so hard to sight in.
RWS Hobby
The last pellet I shot was the RWS Hobby wadcutter. In Part 3 ten Hobbys made a 2.205-inch group. Today using the dot sight the 35 put ten Hobbys into 2.29-inches at 10 meters. It’s pretty much the same as the last time with open sights.
One thing about this group. It is so spread out that there are two sight-in shots that look like they are in the group. Well, they aren’t. If you look at the edges of their hole you can tell that they were shot with Superdomes that didn’t cut round holes. This group is similar to the group Hobbys made when I shot with open sights.
Ten RWS Hobbys made a 2.29-inch group at 10 meters. The arrows point to two holes made by Superdomes during the sight-in. They aren’t part of this group.
Discussion
The tightest group shot with open sights in Part 3 of this test measures 2.181-inches between centers. The tightest group of today’s testing measures 1.963-inches between centers. Clearly the Daisy 35 does not become more accurate at 10 meters with a dot sight.
This may look like a short little test, but please remember that each one of those 30 pellet holes was preceeded by 8 pump strokes. Add to that the 12 sight-in shots and I had to pump this airgun 336 times for today’s test. It wasn’t short on my end! But thankfully the Daisy 35 is an easy airgun to pump.
Looking at the groups I see that this Daisy 35 will hit a tin can most of the time out to 30 feet, or so. That’s its strength. It sure isn’t a paper puncher!
Summary
There is one last thing to test and that is the accuracy of the airgun with BBs. Given that it is set to feed BBs with the magnetic bolt tip I don’t see any reason to test it with lead BBs. You can try to talk me out of that, but think about it. Is someone shooting a $35-40 airgun really going to spend $25 for 1,500 BBs?
B.B.,
That’s quite an interesting contrast between today’s report and the one you did on the Vigilante with the dot sight:
/blog/2021/03/crosman-vigilante-co2-revolver-part-4/
But then again, the Vigilante is rifled. Still, as you noted; this is a nice backyard plinker with which one could have fun with the grandkids…nothing wrong with that. =>
Take care & God bless,
dave
B.B.,
Seems like shooting over 10 meters is really pushing the envelope with these rifles. Is there a cheap and accurate rifle out there?
Siraniko
PS Section Discussion 2nd paragraph 1st sentence: “This may look like a short little test, but please remember that each one of those 30 pellet holes was proceeded (preceded) by 8 pump strokes.”
Siraniko,
Fixed it. Thanks,
BB
Yuck.
BB,
Thank you for the hard work (all that pumping). At least we know. I do not know about the 35,.. but there is people that that seem to make it their life’s mission to do all sorts of little tweaks on these budget guns (880, etc.) to ring out every bit of accuracy, including trigger mods.
Thanks again,… Chris
There are a bunch of feral soda cans hanging around in a small tree off of my back porch right now. They are about 22 yards away. There are some spinners and such sitting about 25 yards away. My grandson and I were popping those cans and flipping those spinners with a Webley Service MK2 this past weekend.
This may work for some with the grandkids in Suburbia, but my grandson would become dissatisfied with this performance real quick. My Daisy 99 will do better than this.
There is one redeeming quality to this airgun. Two actually. One is all of that pumping will help burn up some of that youthful energy and two it is cheap.
No, this is most definitely not for me.
RidgeRunner,
Wildly in Agreement with one disenting observation!
“There is one redeeming…. Two actually. One is all of that pumping will help burn up some of that youthful energy and two…” doesn’t matter since the gun will sit in the corner of my families houses unused and therefore UNPUMPED!
shootski
IMNSHO this is a NO interest product in my family!
shootski
This is for the wee bairn before they learn better.
RidgeRunner,
Ah! Like those training two wheelers they use these days with No Pedals!
R.R. serious question: So I thought to boresight the ASP20 .22 that arrived today…dummy here didn’t think about the length of the muffler being longer than the arbor stalk on the LASER boresighter. Know of any method that would work beside old school large sheet close move away…or just plain luck like on the .177 that someone at SIG AIR (or, the god of Nimrod) sent the rifle to me mostly sighted in? I have never seen a .22 breech end LASER that was worth a darn and this bore is smaller anyway.
shot self in the foot ski
Shootski,
You have a .177 and a .22 ASP20?! That is awesome!
The only thing I can think of besides the old school method is maybe you can find a straw that fits the bore pretty good, run it through the can and into the bore, then insert laser.
Something you may think about for the future is to see if you can find an arrow shaft that fits pretty good. I have a laser that screws into an arrow tip socket for my crossbow.
Me? Being an old geezer, I would just go old school. I do not have one of those new fangled bore sighter laser thingys. Besides, that gives you more trigger time.
RidgeRunner,
Thank you!
“You have a .177 and a .22 ASP20?! That is awesome!” I have shot the .177 enough to agree that IT is awesome; so far I have only inspected and cleaned the bore on the .22 caliber; we had lots of rain and wind yesterday along with early this morning. I hope to get some trigger time with the .22 today.
Old School sighting in All the Way!
I have a bunch of pellets that were bought for my 1st Gen Marauder. They are mostly heavy for the ASP20 in all likely hood; everything on B.B.’s test sampler is on backorder everywhere. : |
The synthetic stock is fantastic. It is SOLID even at the split for the breech block/piston lever slot. It has a bunch of reference spots that make “finding” your same hold point on the offhand easypeasy. I really like the four QD flush points it is almost like the design team knew I was going to use the TAB Gear BIATHLON sling; the location is actually at the vertical balance point for a change. Since the TAB Gear Sling (ELITE) model that I have on backorder has an Arm Cuff it will hopefully be no issue since the front QD is solid. I was worried that the cocking slot would be a weak point on the synthetic stock…but we shall see when it is slung-up. I can already see ways to strengthen that area if it proved to be needed. Being able to do the side-by-side comparison is going to add to my trigger time fun!
I’ll need to share how a telephone call with Tom more than three decades ago sent me to the Dark Side and had me viewing our Host as an opinionated stuck in the mud springer guy, LOL!
I did subscribe to his Aigun Letter, because I wasn’t STUPID, he was almost all there was worth while on Adult Airguns at the time…he also knew Gary Barnes and Dennis Quackenbush.
Funny how much has changed and also how not much of real value in fact! I think you understand what i mean.
shootski
RidgeRunner,
I need not have worried,. ;^)
SIG ASP20.22 caliber Synthetic and WHISKEY 3 Scope.
Right out of the box with only a light bore cleaning; Balistol and dry patches on a .20 Jag.
Ten, 14.5 gr. RWS Superdomes at 25yds in our breezy weather: Right to Left 24mph, gusts to 35.
shootski
Shootski,
Is that just out of the box with the scope mounted or did you mount the scope and make adjustments?
Either way that looks good.
Mike
Mike In Atl,
SIG shipped the ASP20 combo to me with the WHISKEY 3 already mounted on this order. It seems to have the same elevation turret that B.B. sung the praises of as well as a regular MOA turret. I didn’t dial anything other than the AO to 25, the occular for a sharp reticle, and the elevation to 25 yards. I will sight it in after the winds die down and I have at least 100 pellets down the bore. I was shooting Offhand and the wind was blowing me around a fair amount. It was interesting how the first 3 pellets walked from L to R and then just formed a horizontal group especially given that I would have expected the opposite; probably the crosswinds and my wind read but it was so gusty that is simply a guess.
A month back before their distributors started sending unsold combos back after SIG announced the discontinence they had a bare .177 in wood and I ordered a regular WHISKEY 3 scope(no Ballistic elevation turret) and a set of SIG QD rings. The rail make it real easy to mount the rings and scope.
It is going to be interesting to wring these two rifles out side by side since i have almost no break barrel experience.
I do like what im seeing thus far…said the Dark Side disciple!
shootski
Shootski,
So I guess they sighted it in or just mounted the glass and it was just right, that would be a lucky landing.
Let us know when you get some less windy conditions.
Mike
Mike in Atl,
I think they ensure a centered optic and perhaps they test them? You would think SIG AIR would have included a target.
I’m going to continue shooting pellets to check function and work the bore. It looked to me like that first 3 cpelet travel was because I cleaned the bore.
I will sight in using a Snclair Rest and Bag. Then I will see if Offhanded stays on Target. I may go to the indoor range if the winds stay high to do the sighting and shoot out to 50 or more.
shootski.
Nice. I really like PCP but there is just something about sproingers that keep pulling me back.
RidgeRunner,
PCPs came too early long ago and were found once more when material science gave them the opportunity to show how capable they could become. I think we still have a great deal of performance gains to come for the PCP powerplant. I also don’t believe the electronics approach is the right path at this point; at least not for hunting or long-range. That area for PCP gains is still the realm of higher pressure and greater efficiency to be found in storage pressure containment increases and improved metering of gas supply per shot.
It will be interesting to see if Crosman’s failure/experience with electronics will eventually prove the same for the folks at Daystate with their electronic controled airguns. In my hunting/tactical experience i have seen way to many failures of electronic equipment because of conditions in the field. I have seen folks have battery issues first and foremost and then there is moisture! I also just can’t get over the folks who depend on battery power not at least having spares in quantity at camp/vehicle for each type of battery their gear uses; worst of all starting with near dead batteries to boot.
I think spring/gas piston powerplants as well as the Pump-ups have suffered a major pause in development because of the recent focus on PCP. Will it be for the hundreds of years that the PCP languished…the SIG AIR ASP apparent low sales experience of their cutting edge gas spring break-barrel doesn’t bode well for other SPROINGER manufacturers (bean counter department) taking great risks on pushing the technology and performance.
Will an ASP20 find a home in some future airgunner’s Home for wayward Airguns when you and I have been long gone? I have NO doubt that my Quackenbush Big Bores will be operable and in a Family Home, museums, and still other DAQs will be in Homes for Wayward Airguns in the 22nd Century and beyond.
shootski
Shootski,
I have a concern about the life of PCP airguns, the tank or air tube will at some point become a safety issue. They will have to be replaced at some time.
Mike
Mike in Atl,
I would agree with you in some instances and with some manufacturers. I think the DAQ Built guns will take many fill cycles. “The reservoirs I use are good to 9000 psi before yield, but you don’t test every gun to where you damage it. I pressurize the gun to 6000 psi, which is twice its normal working pressure, and hold it there for 24 hours; if there’s no pressure drop in that time then it passes.” A quote from Dennis Quackenbush.
On the bottle guns the 2″ diameter Catalina cylinders are going to last just as long if they are inspected for corrosion. Anything larger is going to be on a visual and hydro inspection cycle. I have an aluminum SCUBA cylinder that is at least 23 years old two 100 cu ft steel 3600psi SCUBA cylinders that are 55 years old and have many dives on them as well as airgun fills. My 15 year life cycle 4,500psi Carbon Fiber 100 cu ft cylinders can now be extended to 30 years service life if they pass a special DOT SLEP test. So although they may fail at some point it is much less of an age problem than a user failure to have qualified inspections, proper care and (over pressure fills) abuse issue.
The HAM article and similar screeds about corrosion are based on Internet BS, poor manufacturer’s assembly practices, and owners NOT performing proper anticorrosion practices when they open up a PCP and failure to perform minimal maintenance steps on their pressure tubes and cylinders.
shootski
Shootski,
I myself do not think the solution to the advancement of PCPs is related to an increase in pressure. Quite the opposite. A decrease in pressure and an increase in efficiency is where their future lies. Right now we are into the “muscle car” age of the PCP. We build a 100 caliber, 10,000 PSI PCP because we can. PCPs used to be very expensive. They are headed there again.
As for the sproinger, power wise I think it has just about peeked out. We cannot escape the laws of physics. As for the gas sproing, how long do you expect it to last? Once upon a time these were made to be rebuilt and adjusted. Unless that comes back, the operable gas sproing air rifle will not be in a Home For Wayward Airguns.
There are people on the sidelines working one all of these types. If we live long enough we will see some more incremental advancements.
RidgeRunner,
We need a nice sunny afternoon on the porch to solve the Airgun Worlds problems.
I should have known better and said Big Bores and not just PCPs need a very large increase in pressure. In discussions about hunting with Big Bores the current limit on precision long range ends once you hit transonic with bullets. I’m not talking big bore pellet; not even ball shooters only bullet (slug) shooters. Dennis Quackenbush clearly makes my case when he talks about the topic (he has also written about it on his web site) on needing supersonic flow. I think with some flow science design input it could (actually has been done in large installations) be done in a reasonable hunting size air rifle given enough pressure to sustain the hyper flow for the 2-3 milliseconds required at least twice but preferably 5-6 shots.
R.R. said: “As for the sproinger, power wise I think it has just about peeked out. We cannot escape the laws of physics. [Maybe, maybe not!] As for the gas sproing, how long do you expect it to last? Once upon a time these were made to be rebuilt and adjusted. Unless that comes back, the operable gas sproing air rifle will not be in a Home For Wayward Airguns.”
I think coil springs have never been truly optimized for spring piston powerplant other than for short range using a limited (by the we have always done it this way mindset) subset of the spring art.
As far as will the ASP20’s gas-spring last or be replacable: https://www.vapsint.com/en/technology-and-characteristics-of-gas-springs/ see the science and why SIG AIR used them over other springs. Am I really worried about a replacement if/when SIG’s 5 year Warranty is done? No, because enough ASP20’s were sold that I or someone else will speculate by buying them from unhappy users (abusers and the unskilled) and make a pretty penny when the time comes for gas-spring replacement by ordering 1-4 thousand replacements gas-springs.
https://www.gas-springs.biz/ or some other suppliers; I wouldn’t mind a business trip to Italy now that I’m COVID 19 vacinatted!
Sunny day a porch; life is good…
Be well and shoot often!
shootski
Shootski,
We ran out of replies below.
I will not argue with scientific data, nor do I really want to fill my head with it. Some is needed, yes. The problem I am having this weekend is it is a sunny day on the back porch, all weekend long. I am also taking a couple of days vacation so it will be even longer. Yesterday the 1906 BSA was on the back porch with me. Friday, the FLZ enjoyed a sunny evening with me there. The other day the Webley was out there with me. It was not a pretty day, but since the porch is covered, neither of us really cared.
Gas sproing. My experience with them has been a most unpleasant one. I had one installed in a Gamo CFX. This is a very light air rifle as many Gamos are. The torque went away. Though it can be reduced to the point that you cannot notice it, you still have some vibration with a metal sproing. That was gone. The gas sproing is faster, way faster. Discounting the detonation that blew out every seal on my CFX, the trouble I was having was it would slap me beside the head pretty hard every time I pulled the trigger. Upon reflection, I realize I was holding it too loose. In my defense, previously I was shooting ten shot groups at twenty-five yards that would literally hide under a dime. You likely do not have this issue as you are used to shooting PCPs and those Sigs weigh a whole lot more.
Will sproingers get better? Likely, but by small increments. The airgun buying public, most of whom do not understand the engineering involved, is not going to pay for large advancements with these. This is what happened to the ASP20. It was priced too high for quick sales at large volumes. That is the business philosophy of the large corporations these days. Many are the neophyte sproinger shooters who drool over an ASP or a Weihrauch or an Air Arms, but how many are willing to pay for such? They are too conditioned to buying cheap throw away “toys” and telling lies to the other neophytes about how great their particular toy is.
There are a few companies who do take spring engineering as it relates to airguns very seriously. Their sproingers are not cheap either. the other side of the coin is how many of these top end sproingers do you see on the used airgun market and what kind of price do they have when they are there?
To be continued…
Shootski,
I am back. Had to take the dog for a walk.
With PCPs, even big bore, because of modern technology the pressures have climbed beyond what was previously dreamed. But quite often the high pressures are used as a workaround for efficiency. Why was a forty-six caliber air rifle able to be filled to around 800 PSI, get twenty good shots and kill a man at over one hundred yards?
I personally do not believe the knock open valve is efficient. Also, the “standard” routing through a transfer port robs much of the power and efficiency. Gary Barnes and Dennis Quakenbush “rediscovered” the efficiency of the push open valve versus the knock open valve. They also found that the straight flow through versus the rerouting of the air was more efficient. They also discovered its Achilles heal. the timing of such a valve is very difficult.
I had a long conversation with John McCaslin one day where he told me of the very beginnings of AirForce. I gentleman had an idea for an air rifle and John built one for him. The issue with it was the barrel moved, thereby affecting accuracy. John thought about it some and came up with the design for the Talon. The rest is history. The inline air system is very efficient. They still have the knock open valve, but at least the force is not lost in going around a bunch of bends.
Regulators have become quite popular. They help to increase shot to shot consistency. I have noticed many of them have become quite sloppy also. The Edge regulator would keep the variation of the shot velocity within a very narrow 2-5 FPS. The regulator on my HM1000X is almost as efficient. many regulators on the market today are lucky to keep your shots within a 25 FPS window.
There is good new though for the PCP industry. It is the Huben K1. Once again they have discovered the push open valve, only now the timing is much easier as another air valve is doing the opening and the amount of air allowed through can be adjusted easily. It is a very efficient system, but it is not cheap. Yet.
A side note here. Lloyd Sikes designed the prototype for the Benjamin Rogue. It used a timed solenoid valve to release air and open the main valve. The main problem with the Rogue is that Lloyd used a double solenoid valve to operate his, and Crosman cut costs by using a single solenoid valve. Where Lloyd’s used a solenoid to open and close the valve at specific set times, Crosman relied on a spring to close the valve. That and a few other things doomed the Rogue.
Well, the sun is up and it is turning into another pretty day on the back porch. I look forward to further dissertations with you. I always learn from them.
Keep safe and keep shooting.
RidgeRunner,
I hope you are enjoying this fine day!
The valve you are talking about is it an inline Spool or Sleeve type?
No rush to answer my friend.
I’m Back to shooting :^)
shootski
I walked thru my local BassPro last weekend, and they had a good selection of Air Rifles, I remember they had the Red Ryder and the 880, not sure if they had the 35. They had about 10 tins of Crossman pellets, but they had TONS of BBs. I think that the 35 will have a great value as a BB gun with everyone stuck at home, and the ammo shortage. With a simple cardboard box trap you can shoot in your garage or basement, and also in the back yard. I just shoot pellets out of HW springers, but that supply of BBs at BassPro has me thinking of picking up a 499 muzzleloader to shoot in the garage.
Jimaok,
I was thinking about pellets (the lack of) the other day. I went to a couple big box stores, looking to buy my son some shoes and stuff. I never leave without looking down the ammo aisle. In both cases, not any pellets to speak of. Yet tons of BBs. When I was a kid it wouldn’t matter as I shot more BBs than pellets. I hated pellets then cause they were single shot and didn’t have as much power because the bb could go through the metal barn (HA). So now I shoot pellets but my son does have a full auto bb rifle so he is happy.
Doc
Doc,
I saw that Pyramid is back in stock of the JSB 8.44, Air Arms 8.44 and Daystate 8.44. I find those are the most accurate in my HW30s, and R7, and R9. If you need pellets get them now. I stocked up over the last year so I am all set for a while. If it wasn’t for pellets, I wouldn’t be doing any shooting at all. I live about a mile from the local gun club, they shoot trap there a lot. I notice there is a LOT less shooting going on. The bright side is that in a couple of weeks the spring migration will start and I will be doing a lot more fishing. On Cape Cod we get squid in mid april, Striped Bass in May, and everything else in June. I think I will be doing more fishing this year than shooting. I cant wait for the ammo situation to get back to normal, I had been wanting to pick up a Left Hand Ruger Scout rifle, or the M1A Scout, but I am not getting anything if ammo is not plentiful.
Jim
I can wholeheartedly recommend the Scout Squad model of M1A. It is my favorite handling .308. The ammo situation is only temporary. Shortages never last, they never do. I would get the rifle, magazines and ancillary equipment first, and then add ammo as finances permit.
Paco,
How easy is it to take the M1a apart and get it back together again? I took my Garand apart, and it took me a couple of hours to get it together the 1st time. I LOVE the looks of the M1A Scout with walnut.
Jim
Jimaok-
Breaks down in seconds, like the M1. Pull trigger guard, drop the trigger group, pull off stock and then it’s just op rod, bolt, spring and guide. Reassembly is, I think, easier than the M1. Still the little fiddly bit of aligning bolt roller, op rod and track, but not bad.
I have the Scout with the synthetic stock. I love walnut, but have a hard time putting all the dings and scratches in a new stock. This is a truck gun for me.
I like the 18” Scout. It handles and shoots well. Quicker and handier than a full (22”) size and not as ‘blasty’ as the 16” Socom. I run iron sights with a mini red dot forward at 45 degrees.
Jim,
Thanks, I have pellets, but wouldn’t hurt to buy some more in case this lingers on.
Oh and cool break barrels you have there! And I have to ask, which do you like best? Can you tell much difference in the HW30 and R7?
Doc
I had the R9 and HW30 for a while. I bought a house last year and have a decent 25 yard range out the basement door but i have to be quiet so the neighbors dont hear. The R9 is only ok on windy days, so i mainly shot the HW30s. I wanted a second or spare so i picked up an R7 from Pyramid about a month ago when they came back in stock. They are similar but i think the R7 is a bit smoother and more accurate. I get 3/4 inch groups from the HW30s at 25 yards and about 1/2 groups from the R7. I put about 800 pellets thru it so far and it only gets better. I like the checkering on the R7 too. The HW30s is smooth. Both have ambi stocks. Im lefty. Get the R7 if you can. You will shoot it forever. Its great. I have Bushnell Banner 4-12AO on the R9 and HW30s, and a really old Bushnell airgun 3-9AO on the R7.
Jim,
Nice groups. Always wanted to pick up a HW30, but maybe I’ll have to check out the R-7 instead. That said, I’m an open sight type of guy. I prefer non glowing (fiber optic) sights. Are the sights more or less the same? I read a lot where they are more or less the same gun, but I find it strange the R7 weighs a little more and have a sightly higher velocity listed. But I also read where HW30 usually surpasses it’s listed velocity. The Hw30 costs less and you can get an HW30 Deluxe (fancy wood) for less than the r-7. Then there is the HW50 that is just a little more than an R7. But I hear it’s not as easy shooting as the HW30/R7. LOL I will stop now.
Doc
I think the Hw30s delux and tbe R7 are the same except for the cheekpiece. The R7 has dual cheek pieces and the hw30s delux has a right hand one althoughyou can still shoot it lefty. The plain HW30s has an ambi stock like the R7. I wanted tbe HW30s delux but wanted dual cheek pieces. So i got tbe R7. If your right handed or dont care the HW30s delux is the same as the R7 otherwise. I almost got tbe HW50 instead but i reminded myself the HW30s was perfect noise wise for my location so stuck with that power plant. If you can use a little more power go for the 50. My R9 is smooth like the R7 only way bigger and a litle louder. It groups 1/2 at 25 also. I just dont want the neighbors to hear it.
Jim,
I take it the R9 is more hold sensitive than the R7? Right? That was my reserve with the HW50. Lots say the break barrel is dying. I don’t think so. I think it’s a matter of time before upper class (HW/Diana/Beeman) maker comes out with a reliable mag fed break barrel. Not saying Gamo and Hatsan isn’t good, just not like the upper end.
Doc
Honestly, the heavier weight of the R9 makes it shoot pretty good. ITs almost comparable to the R7. I find the light weight of the R7 almost makes it less stable than the R9. I am sure individual rifles are different, but if thats all you are concerned about I wouldnt stay away from the HW50 for that reason. It should be almost as similar as the R7 and R9. I hear people complaining about the R9, but I find it pretty smooth, and not hold sensitive. I get 1/2 groups off a caldwell bag filled with plastic bbs with the R9. Thats not hold insensitive to me. I bet the HW50 would be the same.
Jimaok
You won’t be disappointed with the 499 except for not being in this price category. The Beeman P17, Crosman 1322 and 1377 are, plus they do 1 inch and better at 10 meters. Being pellet guns, ammo is more expensive. The P17 is hard for a young kid to cock but the Crosman pistols are not using as few as 3 pumps. They also can easily become carbines and you never outgrow these guns.
Stay safe.
Deck
Thanks Deck,
I actually shoot a Beeman P3 that the P17 was cloned after, and an older Daisy 853 in the garage. But that limits me to about 20 feet in the garage, and with those, it feels like a waste. I was thinking the 499 because I think they shoot at 5 meters which I have. I can shoot 25 yards in the back yard, but this is mainly for the garage that I can shoot at night or in bad weather. For fun.
Thanks,
Jim.
Jim
Looking at the airguns you mention above, you already have “quality” guns. If you decide on the 499 for indoors it easily stretches out to 10 meters. I shoot mine mostly at 5 meters which is what it is designed to do. But if there is not much wind I expect an inch or better at 10 meters for 10 shot groups. I think Gunfun1 can confirm it.
Deck
Deck,
The 499 is the ticket. Add a Red Ryder spring to push it even further,.. with no loss in accuracy.
Chris
Chris
I followed with interest your comments along with Gunfun1 about the stronger spring. Not sure he was able to get similar performance with his “modded” 499. Maybe he didn’t try it, not sure.
Deck
Deck,
That sounds like something I should test. Some more details please, like the ammo you use.
BB
BB
You are referring to the HW30S I think. Mine shoots a number of pellets well but prefers dome heads at 25 yards. Both JSB Express and AA Express 7,87 grain are consistently best but JSB 8.44 grain once gave the single best group. Of course they do well at 10 meters but Qiang Yuan Olympic and the obsolete H&N Finale Match Rifle get honors for smallest groups at shorter distance. The many tins I have bought all have such consistent head diameters I stopped sorting these listed a long time ago. I have used a variety of scopes, dots and peeps over the years since I enjoy fiddling with optics. The bore has never been touched by me. It isn’t very hold sensitive but I shoot directly on a small narrow bag that puts the balance point very slightly muzzle heavy and snugged against the trigger guard. I release the trigger using two fingers from each hand. This way is almost as steady as shooting from forward and rear rests.
Enjoy yours and stay safe.
Deck
Deck,
Thank you. Several people have respopnded and I now have a good picture of what a 30S should like.
BB
BB
So the Daisy 35 is a 40$ bb/pellet gun with a maximum effective range (one inch groups) at 5 yards or so. Guess that it would be an OK youth plinker but would fall short as a 10-20 yard adult plinker.
I see a gun like this and have to wonder how much more manufacturing effort and better materials would it take to raise the accuracy from very poor to a reasonable level. Like all the parts have to be made anyway so what would it cost to put in a better barrel and tighten up tolerances a bit. I am guessing maybe 5$ to the bottom line? That would be a 12% increase but really that is hardly much more than the cost of a fancy coffee.
Hank
Vana2,
You are advocating to NOT stimulate the Economy by never ever drinking WAY, WAY, WAY, OVERPRICED NAME/STATUS RECOGNITION marketed coffee in paper cups! All for the purpose of buying a slight increase in quality of a bb gun!
How could you!
What will become of us… SMIRKS!
shootski
Shootski,
I’m a TTT (total tea toddler) so I don’t have any problem maligning WAY, WAY, WAY, OVERPRICED NAME/STATUS RECOGNITION marketed coffee in paper cups! 😉
LOL!
Hank
Vana2,
I love a well brewed (swish of boiling water) mug of PG Tips and a touch of Wildflower (unpasteurized) Honey. Yes!
But having been in the Navy I also love my mug of Joe. I bought a Aldi porcelain coffee funnel, a Aldi glass lined insulated pitcher decades ago and use paper filters. I have done it that way for decades a simple pour over preparation that I understand has been trending of late… When I want to make some Espresso based libations, i mill my whole beans, use a Pavoni Euromatic that i picked up in Napoli for next to nothing. If you are going to put it in your body or offer it to family and friends it needs to be great raw material to start and properly prepared.
But we don’t ever drink coffee out of plastic Styrofoam or paper cups; with Logos or without!
Some biscuits (cookies) or scone with that tea?
shootski
Shootski,
Scones are good when they are available but definitely cookies with tea – I’m a dunker and don’t mind crumbs in the bottom of the cup 🙂
I drank coffee at work but haven’t had a cup since retiring. I like my teas, keep a variety on hand including some that grow wild on the property. A cup of yarrow tea with a bit of honey after supper is nice and relaxing.
Being sensitive to caffeine I never got into the high-octane brews. I run pretty intense most of the time and really don’t need to be reved up LOL!
Hank
Vana2,
When you get wrenched out of bed at O dark thirty by a blaring Claxton and have xx minutes to be turning and burning a slug of Joe goes a long way to going from dreamland to the reality that you just Saluted the Catapult Officer and he just pointed to the bow……………………BOOM and GONE in two seconds!
I can still feel the kick in the ashcan and the loss of focused vision to the transverse G! At Night!
Lord help me! I miss it STILL!
shootski
Shootski,
ROTFWL! Yes my friend, I understand. Until your last breath.
BB and all.
Cheek rest style. So I have been investigating the best position for a positive cheek weld on my DIY stock. What I have found so far is this: The best support is an angled rest, so that it contacts at three points ( Maxilla bone , cheek bone , jaw bone). This gives me the best support and is easy to settle on, but you cannot slide along it. With the straight style you can slide along it, but has really only two points of contact and is a bit tricky to settle on. ( watch shooters getting the cheek weld to work …) . So I am wondering what other people think. If I was definitely not changing my stance I would use the angled style, it just feels much better. Is the straight “comb” style just convention/utility ? Robert.
Robert,
To me,… you (practice) enough with a decent (straight) cheek rest and it will become natural. If changing positions,… that complicates things,… to the degree that you can/can not adapt.
Straight is more adaptable/universal,…. custom is more restrictive. To me,… (height) is the most important. I would rather do a head/eye fore and aft adjustment as opposed to a head/eye up and down adjustment.
My 2 cents (or what ever you call 2 cents down your way) 😉
Chris
RobertA,
This is one of the, Chicken or the Egg, questions of the rifle shooting sport. History shows that when the Long Gonn was invented there wasn’t even a stock; it truly was a hand Canon! You know the rest in that a board was added so it was easier to hold when it got warmish and all the rest of the things that got added and Fitted!
I like to build my bodies shooting position first and then add the shotin’ iron to that position and make it fit or adjust enough to make it fit ME. In simple terms the furniture must be made to fit the shooters position. We lost that with MASS production and Catalog ordering. And then there are the different positions we shoot from…WHAT you don’t have a raft of Gonn Bearers carrying your standing rifle, your kneeling rifle (don’t forget that pesky kneeling roll) oh and the prone rifle and that shooting mat that always get lost…the chair (folding with three legs of course) for the sitting position, with or without the beer can cozy?
All kidding aside build your positions with just your body and make the stock(s) fit you!
NO moving your head to get that cheek WELD! Not even a hairs breadth!!!!
shootski
Shootski,
Ha! Good read. Yes I agree. If I relax into my rifle fit then I will shoot better. If I hunch over and are constantly holding up a long heavy thing… well I get worn out fast. Which is why I decided to pull my rifle apart. And then there is recoil. DARN! So many things to work into the plan. If I fired 30-06 with my stock design. Things would not go well. At all. So there are horse for courses. Um, I am going to find out how to spread things out over four stances, off hand, sit, kneel and prone. The butt plate gets attention first, then the cheek weld. Grip last. With a short LOP and a dropped elbow things have to be considered. With short LOP and raised elbow you may as well have a sideways grip and I have seen that in 10m target pics. I made a sliding special cheek rest diagram. RA Design Bureau…. RDB ? Robert.
RobertA,
Yes! If you shoot to one and only one distance it simplifies things. KISS is a wonderful place to start but…. The “real” World is anything but simple.
Some really free device advice…you know what that is worth!
Start with the typical scope eye box and work from there. Or, if you decide it is an Target iron sight platform then it is simpler since your eye and the rear sight (disk) need to be close to the the same.
No wonder there are usually many Try Stocks that the Purveyors of fine guns use to fit their clients!
You seem to understand that some system is essential to avoid the Hot Mess, LOL!
shootski
Shootski,
I think I am heading towards field target with this set up. The scope will do AND I can collect dinner with it when not at the FT range. All those good things I learn at FT can be applied in Rabbiting. So this means I will have to have another rifle set up for 20m Off hand with peep/dioptre. Oh look I convinced myself I need another rifle! If I could get the same model again. Now that is a novel idea. Will stick to sproingers I like the challenge. : – ) Robert.
RobertA,
I thought Rabbiting was done with long nets and beaters?
shootski
Shootski,
Nope, I sneak up on them. I once snuck right up on this little fluffy fellow who after a while started to clean it’s foot, all while I stood less than 6m away. It was looking right at me but I was not moving. I let it off with a warning. Actually getting it would have been difficult as I would have had to shoot from the hip. But I was pretty charmed by little critter to the point where I thought: let this one go. Not all of them got off that lightly. They were delicious. actually you might be thinking of Tigers. There is no way I would shoot one of those AND we don’t have them down here. Right, I am off to the garage. Robert.
RobertA,
Enjoy!
I think of fishing as doing it with a Gill net strung from one side of the stream to the other!
shootski
Question:
How silly is it to get a patent in the US? Just asking for a friend…. Robert.
RobertA,
Ask your friend what he thinks a US Patent will do?
Then sk him how much he will pay th lawyers to enforce his Patent. Will the Chinese or other’s really care he Patented his idea/thing.
Money talks the rest walk!
shootski
Shooski,
I was mentally prepared for your answer after reading about the “patent trolls” at work in the US. Wow, that was a new new low as far as I was concerned. I had no idea “people” could go that low. Robert.
RobertA,
You must bend over backwards to LIMBO LOWER man!
shootski