by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
The HW 30S I am testing seems to be a new version.
This report covers:
- The stock
- Light!
- Sights
- Rekord trigger
- Adjust trigger
- Articulated cocking link
- Surprise number 2
- Summary
Today we start looking at the Weihrauch HW 30S that I mentioned yesterday. It arrived last evening and I am excited to get started. There are two surprises awaiting, so let’s get started.
The stock
Let’s start with surprise number one — the stock. It is profiled in a very modern style. Gone is the western hunting profile. It’s been replaced by a more tactical-looking butt. It has just a hint of the A4 kickdown tactical butt without shoving your face in it. Compare it to the SIG ASP20 stock.
The Sig ASP20 stock had the same tactical look.
The bottom of the cutout at the bottom of the butt is flat. You might not appreciate that until you slide a rear sandbag underneath and notice the stability. And folks — these are all small touches that any company can make that costs very little and add so much.
The bottom of the butt is flat for stability.
There are identical checkered, stippled and carved panels on both side of the forearm.
The grip is also checkered, stippled and carved.
This stock fits me quite well. The forearm is thin so the rifle drops down deep in my off hand the way I like. The pistol grip is very full — almost to the point of being a palm swell. The pull from the trigger to the center of the soft but firm red rubber butt pad is a manly 14-1/8-inches. And the stock is 100 percent ambidextrous. Whoever designed this stock knows rifles! I’m not saying it will fit everyone but those it doesn’t will be in the third standard deviation on either side of the mean.
Light!
The first thing I noticed as the rifle came from the box was how very light it is! Mine weighs 5 lbs. 13.2 oz. It is 38-7/8-inches long with a 15-1/2-inch barrel. I think the slim profile of the stock adds to the impression of lightness.
Sights
And the gifts just keep on coming! The NON-FIBEROPTIC sights — thank you, Weihrauch! — are wonderful. The rear sight adjusts in both directions and has 4 different notches to choose from.
The HW 30S rear sight adjusts both ways. There are 4 different notches to choose from.
But it is the front sight that is amazing. In 2021 I never expected to find a globe front sight that comes with 6 inserts on a rifle selling for under $300!
The front sight accepts inserts. The 5 additional sight inserts are in a pouch hanging from the triggerguard.
A pouch that hangs from the triggerguard holds five of the six front sight inserts that come with HW 30S. The other one is in the sight.
Rekord trigger
But wait — there is more! Aside from the small, light style, the HW 30S comes with a Rekord trigger! That’s what the S in the title signifies. And yes, there are HW 30 rifles that don’t have a Rekord trigger. If anyone owns one please speak up and tell us about it.
The 30S has a Rekord trigger.
Adjust trigger
I will tell you right now that the trigger in my rifle is not adjusted the way I prefer. There is some creep in the second stage. Therefore, before I shoot for accuracy, I will adjust the trigger. That will be a report of its own. I have adjusted Rekord triggers before in this blog but I think this will be the first time I have adjusted and reported on one just as it comes from the factory.
Articulated cocking link
The 30S has a 2-piece articulated cocking link. That means that the cocking slot in the stock can be very short and that means less vibration. However, I have shot this rifle (had to, you know) and there is the tiniest bit of vibration. After the regular test and trigger adjustment I will break her down and tune her to be slick and quiet. But that ain’t all!
Surprise number 2
I told you there were some surprises in store with this rifle. The stock was the first one. Now let’s look at the second one. To see it, and I should say them, I broke the barrel open. Let’s look.
There they are — surprise(s) number two! From the bottom up I see a ball bearing barrel detent. That’s easier to machine in many respects, so Weihrauch is keeping the cost under control.
I would like to hear from HW 30S owners whether your rifles have ball bearing barrel detents. I believe they had chisel detents at some point in the past. In fact I believe they had them until recently.
Above the barrel detent I see a funny-looking notched breech. Wait! I saw one like this recently, didn’t I? Where was that? On the Diana 34 EMS? The one with the interchangeable barrels?
Diana, this is a message from the folks at Weihrauch. When you launch an air rifle with interchangeable barrels and aren’t ramped up to supply the barrels yet — remain quiet! Don’t make it a feature that you can’t supply. In the future you can pull back the curtain and reveal an added value that’s been there for some time. AirForce Airguns does it that way, and their owners love them for it. Leave the stuff that isn’t real for BB’s April Fool’s blog!
Above the breech you can see the four rear sight notches. Choices!
Summary
Guys, we have a real winner to examine in this HW 30S. This is gonna be a fun series for all of us!
B.B.,
You sure like this rifle. I can hear/feel your excitement as you are writing the article. TIAT is in the future, but maybe just tightening the screws and shooting it for a hundred rounds might help with the vibrations especially if it is not yet bedded down into the stock.
Siraniko
PS Section Articulated cocking link 1st sentence:
“The 30S has a 2-pice (piece) articulated cocking link.”
PPS Section Surprise number 2 3rd paragraph last sentence: “In fact I believe they had them util (until) recently.”
Siraniko,
Fixed them. Thanks,
BB
B.B.
The only thing that I do not like about Weihrauch stocks is the distance from palm swell to trigger. I find it a bit long…
-Y
Yogi,
Completely agree. I’ve installed SETBACK TRIGGERS made specifically for Weihrauchs in many of my guns for this reason. Plenty of aftermarket manufacturers that offer setback triggers for Weihrauchs
Yes, but that IS the problem, setback trigger are necessary on Weihrauchs…
-Y
Agreed! This seems to have been a feature of HW rifles since time immemorial though.
Interestingly, one of the last versions of the famous HW 55 target rifle, the “HWB Champ” junior version, has a MOVABLE blade! I’ve long wondered why they didn’t standardize this throughout the line, or at least make it an option. Note the tweaks required to the stock and trigger guard, though.
Mike,
Thanks for posting that! Do you know if the articulated cocking arm was also standard on the HW 55?
It really is the only thing that people gripe about on the newer HW 50.
-Y
Hey Yogi
Yes, the initial post-war line-up that HW made for many years – The HW 35, original HW 50, and HW 55 – all had basically the same architecture. The receiver tubes are the exact same length (though the 35’s is fatter of course) and they all have the articulated cocking link. The links are actually the same parts on all three rifles.
Personally…I love that detail. Yes, the leverage advantage is less, so cocking effort is somewhat increased; and there’s the infamous long-standing issue of the “knuckle” hitting the underside of the receiver. But the trade off is that solid “real gun” fore end with short slot and big attachment bolt – IMHO far preferable to a “tuning fork” front with finger-catching side screws.
MD
B.B.
My 2020 HW30S has both the ball bearing detent and the notched breech.
Cheers,
Nathan
Nathan,
Thank you.
BB
My 15 year old 30 is also ball bearing. Adjusting the lockup is very touchy.
Taemyks,
Thank you. I guess the ball bearting has been around for a while.
BB
“I would like to hear from HW 30S owners whether your rifles have ball bearing barrel detents.”
B.B.,
My rifle (~2015) also has the same lockup as yours.
So glad you got your HW30S, and I’m really looking forward to this set of reports!
Take care & God bless,
dave
BB
My HW30S was bought from PA in 2015. It has the same ball bearing lock up and notched breech. Front and rear sights are like yours. Stock is the western version. I like the looks of your stock.
This report may prove to be the most popular of many fine ones.
Deck
Deck,
Thank you for that information.
BB
Yes. Thanks, Nathan.
So maybe the notched breech just aids production assembly–either that or we’ve been waiting a long time already for Weihrauch to pull back the switch barrel curtain!
This HW is a very tempting air rifle for me. It’s a “real” air rifle (a break barrel springer) and it suits my stature and iron sight preferences while still being light weight.
I’m still getting my new Benji SAM setup though so I’ll wait for B.B. to complete his full report before buying another air file. My SAM functions perfectly, except it really needs a better trigger for the Appleseed rifleman courses of fire, where the timing of a trigger break is critical. I’m not saying that I can’t shoot “Rifleman” scores with it–I think I can, but my goal is to shoot a perfect score! 😉 The SAM trigger works fine for bench work, but when shooting in rifleman positions using only a sling for support, the muzzle is always moving so timing and trigger let-off must be perfectly known and managed by the rifleman. Actually, I can deal with a quite heavy trigger, if it’s predictable.
The SAM also needs at least a manual bolt hold open for one handed Appleseed mag changes. I’m working on both the trigger and bolt hold open. My McMaster order of parts for better trigger feel should arrive early next week and I’ve started the CAD for a 3D-printed bolt hold open. I already 3D-printed some trigger parts and proved that at least my concept may be on the right track, but I need metal parts to reduce the “mush.” If it all works, I’ll let everyone here know what I’m doing.
In the meantime, my old boxed Premiers shoot as well as anything (quite well) so I ordered some new and reasonably priced Premier dome tins to keep my no-longer-available boxed pellets for special occasions. With the Premiers, my SAM delivered 875+ fps / 24+ ft lb / ~1.5 to 1.7 fps std. dev. right out of the box. I still need to do tank shoot-down chrony work and look at the shot curve to see where the hammer spring preload / regulator are tuned.
So there’s another one of my infrequent “mini guest blog” posts. More later, if my SAM plans work.
-Cal
Cal
I’ll post a picture tomorrow of what I did with the bolt on my SAM. Took me about a half hour at work on the Bridgeport.
And there was a reason for it. Its not a hold open but it made loading the mags easier. For me anyway. What happened is the charging handle broke and I didn’t feel like waiting for one from Crosman plus I didn’t want to put one back in and have it happen again. They are made out of aluminum. The mod I did now has a metal bolt handle.
I’d love to see it, Gunfun1! It might ease mag swaps enough for me to develop a technique. It’s a big advantage in Appleseed to be able to keep the support hand on the fore end, because removing it to do a mag change disturbs the sling position and natural point of aim less.
Do Marauder magazines break-in enough to ever be able to pinch them between the thumb and index finger and just yank them out from the right side rather than needing to get them started by pushing from the left side first? Appleseed technique might benefit from attaching some kind of finger hold on the right hand side.
Cal
I’ll take a picture in the morning when I get off work and post it.
And yes I have mags that will just pull out from the right side without having to push on the left side first. And I have even took some light sandpaper and did a little sanding to allow them to slide in and out easy.
Cal
Here is the picture of my SAM breech and bolt.
All I did was take a 10 mm diameter end mill and mill down to the bolt and go across a little more than the distance the bolt traveled.
Then I drilled and tapped the bolt to accept a 5 mm allen head bolt.
It’s now very easy to cock especially if I stop and change the mag after the bolt stops on the 10th shot.
Cool–thanks, Gunfun1! I can see how that would be far easier to cock.
Gunfun1, So did you totally removed your T-charging handle? I forgot to ask you in my last reply. If yes, my simple bolt hold open mechanism won’t work with it. (I just 3D-printed the 1st half of it and photos should be coming here to B.B.’s blog soon.)
Nonetheless, it looks like it would be a simple task to design a BHO that attaches to the Picatinny rail above your side charger and flips down to keep your charging handle back and hold the bolt open.
Also, I can easily implement your design on my manual hobby lathe. I think I’ll finish my current BHO and see how well it works first, though. It’s good to know that if I ever break my OEM charging handle, you’ve devised a solution!
Cal
Charging handle gone. It kept binding the bolt and was getting misfires. The charging handle is cheap and not well thought out.
But I should say I was getting some pellet dust out the back of the breech when the gun fired. I siliconed the opening and shaped it using water on my finger and painted it black with some model paint. Its holding up well.
And you know what. That would be something that could be 3D printed. A filler for where the charging handle was instead of my silicone and paint fix.
And yes absolutely. That’s what I thought about the bolt latch your talking about 3D printing. Attach it to the picatinny rail on the breech.
You could even take the end mill that I used on the Bridgeport and make a notch in the breech for the bolt handle I added to rotate and lock the breech at the back position. You would need to notch the breech for the pin in the striker too. I almost did mine but didn’t. It probably would take another 15 minutes to do.
Gunfun1,
>And you know what. That would be something that could be 3D printed.
Yup–nylon works well for press-fit parts like that. It is just enough flexible and can be printed the right amount oversize with the right type and density of internal “infill” (honeycomb-like structure) to compress and stay in position.
>You could even take the end mill that I used on the Bridgeport and make a notch in the breech for the bolt handle I added to rotate and lock the breech at the back position. You would need to notch the breech for the pin in the striker too. I almost did mine but didn’t. It probably would take another 15 minutes to do.
I wondered about that, but figured that maybe the bolt/handle would not rotate enough to lock closed (hence the relief for the pin in the striker too).
Cal
I think the bolt would rotate fine from what I seen. The bolt of the gun is round all the way around. The under side of the breech would need a small notch machined for the pin that is in the bottom of the guns bolt.
You should take your breech off and see what it looks like. Its very simple to take the breech off. It has 4 small allen bolts holding on from the top by the scope rail. Take them out and the barrel and all just slip right out of the shroud barrel band. Just don’t loose your transfer port orifice when you lift the breech up. And a word of caution make sure you don’t have a loaded magazine in the breech either and make sure the barrel is clear of any pellets before you take the breech off. The gun can fire if you have a broken pin in the bolt or striker even if the safety is on. It all depends on what step of the cycle was in when it broke. My gun started acting funny when the charge handle cracked then finally broke.
Thanks for the breech removal tips, Gunfun1! I’ll remove it and have a look but I’m trying to finish up my bolt hold open add-on first. I’m also trying to implement a second stage feel in the trigger. Both of my SAM projects are actually requiring a bit more experimentation than I’d hoped-for. I’ll be receiving my second order of trigger springs from McMaster-Carr today and I’ll probably order some Delrin or Teflon rod/dowel yet too…and some non-marring tipped set screws for my BHO . Experimentation supplies get expensive (shipping-wise) from MMC!
So far, I’ve achieved a two-stage trigger feel and I have hope for trigger feel improvement overall, but the fake second stage “wall” I’ve devised is less consistent in trigger break weight (right before let-off) than I’d like. I hope the new springs improve the 2nd stage weight consistency but I also might need to turn a precision spring spacer/holder out of a low friction and rugged material–hence the need for Delrin or Teflon. I could also 3D-print the spacer in nylon, but it won’t be smooth enough for my liking (FDM 3D prints always have some degree of layer roughness on the surface). I could print it from a material that responds to solvent surface smoothing, like ABS or PETG, but those materials are not rugged. Tradeoffs!
After I try my new springs in the trigger today, I might be ready to post the details on B.B.’s latest blog page. If tinkering with the trigger interests you, maybe we can work together on it. I have extra springs that I could mail to you. As I mentioned, my trigger mod is plug and play–no original parts require modification–at least not so far. Maybe with both of us experimenting, we could discover a solution that’s close to optimal!
-Cal
Cal
Sounds interesting with what your doing with the trigger mod.
So far I’m good with the trigger but I’ll be watching to see if you post any pictures and such on the blog.
Let me know if you do.
The trigger is the only thing I dislike about the SAM (but based on B.B’s review, it operates exactly as I expected and I also expected to dislike it ;)). It works fine for me on the bench, but once I’ve got my ammo and tuning dialed-in, I don’t shoot much from a bench.
I don’t think this SAM’s trigger is ever going to break like glass, but I’m trying to make it better and more predictable by adding sensory feedback to my trigger finger. To that end, I removed the trigger weight adjustment coil spring completely. It serves no purpose, other than to artificially add weight to the trigger pull. Some people remove it and the preload adjuster screw completely for the lightest possible trigger pull. I replaced the coil spring with a custom spacer and VERY stiff short travel spring.
I’ve tried Belleville disc springs and a wave disc spring. I’ll provide more details after I shoot the wave disc spring tomorrow (Wed.). So far I’ve only dry-fired the wave spring.
Unlike the original progressive coil spring, the idea is the secondary sear pushes the spacer tube down against the Belleville disc(s) or wave spring. Most of the travel of the secondary sear (and the trigger) is taken up just closing the gap to the spring and is unopposed by spring pressure. When the secondary sear/spacer bottoms against the new stiff spring, you feel the pressure increase in the trigger. So far, there’s still some creep after detecting that pressure (it’s a softer wall than I’d ideally like), but I think it’s more predictable and manageable than the long vague pull of the original spring (or no coil spring at all).
Both the Belleville and wave springs add a sort of second stage feel to the trigger. The wave disc spring yields the most consistent trigger pull but I can think of one or two other changes to the spacer and adjuster screw design that might improve consistency too.
More details (parts and dimensions) later.
Cal
I have my trigger pressure adjustment all the way out also.
And what your doing is kind of like what I did with the 1077 trigger. I changed the coil spring behind the trigger blade to a lighter spring and shorter length. So now the trigger “feels” like there isa first and second stage. I have it so the shot breaks when both springs stack up together. I can actually stop pulling the trigger at that spot and wait for when it’s time to take the shot. Pretty reliably actually.
That’s exactly what I’m going-for, but the geometry of the SAM requires a very stiff spring for a very short travel. My simple installation has the spring disc on top of the adjuster screw, which places it in the threaded bore of the adjuster. The position and mechanical interface of disc springs must be totally stable and unchanging in their “environment” for consistent results. McMaster-Carr specs says the wave disc is better than the Belleville disc in this way (which I’ve found to be true) but I think they both still get hung-up and move around a little between the adjuster screw threads in the hole. Also floating in the threaded hole, the spacer is not a precision fit to the mechanism either, which affects how the disc spring reacts against it.
I haven’t fired the disc spring yet today but I suspect, for best performance, I need to machine some tiny precision parts for a sort of close fit spring “cartridge.” An outer metal body would be threaded 1/4″ (-28 or -32 or whatever the adjuster screw measures) on one end and it would be threaded backwards (from the sear side rather than trigger guard side) and installed into the bottom trigger housing and replace the OEM adjuster screw. It would have a slot or head on it to allow position adjustment from the trigger guard side and maybe also a lock nut. The spring cartridge body bore ID would fit the spring disc very closely (only enough room for spring disc diameter “swelling” upon compression). Similarly, the spacer between the secondary sear and the disc spring would fit the bore closely. It would still move freely in the body’s bore between the sear and disc spring, but there would be no wobble. It might even be keyed to fit a slot in the bore to preclude rotation.
There’s a pyramidal “nub” on the sear to fit the end of the OEM coil spring so it needs to fit very repeatably into the end of the spacer too. The nub really needs to be machined away and replaced with a precision contact surface. Milling it off would not pose any problems, unless restoration of the OEM coil spring is ever desired, but I don’t think I’d ever use it (and you’ve got it backed all the way off too). I don’t know if Crosman will sell a spare secondary sear to me, but Crosman has always been good about selling a variety of parts for their other guns to me. It would be nice to another sear on hand.
Anyway, if you’re happy with the SAM trigger, the above may be more info than you want, but I figured if you become interested, I’ll send you some springs and we might co-develop something together. I can also make up CAD too, for illustrative purposes if nothing else. Right now, this stuff is all in my mind (or in my SAM)!
I really like B.B.s blog, because it’s a very friendly place but probably need to move an R&D conversation elsewhere. Airgun forums seem to be particularly uptight to me so I rarely post on them, but you could PM me at several of the major forums (same username) and I could reply with the part numbers and the dimensions I have so far.
Calinb,
Keep the discussion here. It’s nice to sit on the sidelines during the development phase of anything, even if things get somewhat esoteric down the line.
Siraniko
Thanks, Siraniko!
Cal
Don’t know if this will post in the right place.
But one blog is enough for me. 🙂
And if you get any drawings or parts you want share post them here on the blog.
And waiting to hear how the trigger does for you. And thoght I would mention I found that if I keep a semi fast rythm going through the mag of pellets I tend to get better groups for some reason than just taking single shots with a 3 or 4 second pause between shots. Not sure why but it seems to work that way for me.
Gunfun1,
With the original SAM trigger configuration, fairly rapid multiple shots often seemed to group better for me too.
I don’t think it’s because the gun was shooting better though. Rather, it was a “getting in the zone” timing thing and better controlling where that vague trigger pull lets-off a round–at least for me. I’m pretty sure I could shoot better sling-supported groups (Appleseed/rifleman style) with a trigger than “breaks like glass” though!
I’m playing with Belleville spring washer stacks now (inverted and nested combinations). If you’ve ever adjusted a Ninja style regulator for 1000+ psi output, you know how they work. 😉 The wave spring washer was not stackable for more deflection (AFAIK) and I needed more travel to reliably be able to de-cock the rifle. Varying a Belleville stackup gives me control over both deflection and spring constant (working load).
Belleville:
https://www.mcmaster.com/1826N11/
Wave:
https://www.mcmaster.com/9714K198/
Drawings will come later, if I can get my concept better dialed-in!
BTW, I read an idea in a forum somewhere about installing an adjustable plunger spring in the trigger guard but, just based on the photos in the post linked below, I think a plunger might inhibit disconnector release from the trigger. I’ve yet to even remove the cover on my trigger group to see for myself but I think the trigger needs its overtravel after the sear releases in order to accommodate the disconnector action. My method still permits that additional trigger “over-travel” after the trigger breaks.
https://airgunwarriors.com/community/airgun-talk/i-am-back-to-airguns-waiting-on-truck-with-a-sam-marauder/#post-41957
My 3D-printed bolt hold open that blocks the charging handle is working well. It makes one handed mag changes possible and it’s simply very convenient (like when cleaning the barrel), but I plan to add setscrews to better secure it to the aft end of the breech and also make one small ergonomically motivated change. I’ll post photos of it later too.
Cal
Yep have adjusted the regulators with those spring washers. We have them in hydraulic operated plungers at work too.
And glad your bolt hold open is working. Would like to see pictures.
And I haven’t opened up my trigger on my SAM. I wonder if Crosman has a part diagram available yet. I need to check and see. Or if you do open yours up take a picture of it in it’s original condition before you mod it. I definitely would like to see a picture of it.
Gunfun1,
Check out the photo in the airgunwarriors thread I posted above. He removed the hairpin spring instead of the coil spring that I’ve removed and replaced with my spacer and washer springs. His method to lighten the pull does not support an artificial two stage trigger feel.
There’s also the trigger diagram in the Owner’s Manual that ships with the gun and it’s the only trigger diagram I’ve found. It has part names but not part numbers. I can’t find an electronic copy of the SAM manual or a parts diagram on the Crosman website yet either. I’ll definitely still take a photo when I get around to taking the cover off my trigger someday.
I almost thought I’d need to take it off today to diagnose the problem I was occasionally having when I couldn’t decock the gun, but I figured out that it had nothing to do with my springs and spacer. Although the Owners manual says to “pull the charging handle back to the rear position”, the handle does not need to be pulled past where it gets very hard to pull near the end of its travel (where it starts to compress the heavy hammer spring). The charging handle only needs to be pulled through its easy range of travel (the resistance is easy, because the gun is already cocked). If it is pulled FULLY to the rear past that last little bit causing high effort, the disconnector sometimes disconnects and then the primary sear will not release the hammer as the trigger is pulled and the charging handle gradually allowed to return to home under hammer spring tension. I could hear the disconnector click and actually see the bottom of it jump and disengage when looking at the underside of the trigger housing when it failed to decock so I didn’t have to remove the cover to figure out that was happening. The fix was changing my decocking technique. I now just pull the charging handle ALMOST all the way back until I feel the heavy spring resistance. Then the rifle will decock reliably. I discovered that I had the problem with or without my spring and spacer mod until I changed my decocking technique.
But the problem motivated me to try another spring stack and the good news is that latest stack of four Belleville washers is working very well. The feel is much improved over a single Belleville, or two nested Bellevilles, or the disc spring. I think the next step will be turning an improved spacer from steel rod, but the trigger is now so much better than the OEM trigger.
My current spacer is 0.364″ long and squarely and cleanly parted off on my lathe from a length of Precision Metals brand aluminum tube 3/16 x 0.035, stock #9309. I countersunk the end that rests on the secondary sear nub using a center drill such that tube spacer just barely fits over the nub. I think I can turn a better spacer from a steel rod.
Right now, my spring stack is two inverted pairs of nested Bellevilles, stacked like:
))((
McMaster part and specs page linked above. This stack provides about the same spring rate/working load as a single Belleville but with twice the deflection of a single Belleville. Further experimentation with different stacks might realize further improvement, but this stacks is easily the best of the three configurations I’ve tried so far. Here’s the order of the parts:
=> |XXXXXX| ))(( |XX|
^ ^ ^ ^
sear ^ ^ ^
^ ^ ^
spacer ^ ^
^ ^
stack ^
^
adjuster screw
I’ll probably post photos of my BHO soon. Its design is almost done.
-Cal
Cal
You know what. I did not even look at my owners manual when I got my SAM.
And that should be fine. I’m not worried about parts numbers. I just want to see what the parts look like together.
I’m going to have to dig out my box and get the manual out.
Thanks. Didn’t even think about that.
BB. Slightly confused, they put a globe sight on,with dioptre inserts, and no dioptre ? That’s teasing that is….
Off to the range tonight with my 3-9x 42 scope. Wish me luck. And my new rifle box what I made today. In a hurry. the next one will be much better…. ; – ) Robert.
BB,
Very exciting! When are the R7s on PA site going to adopt all these changes?
Reading the comments, my understanding is the ball bearing thingy must’ve already been adopted by R7. Now, the only difference between 30S and R7 must be the stock, I assume.
My usual first reference (at least for pictures) has these of an early 1980s HW30 – not the Rekord trigger ‘S’ variant.
http://www.muzzle.de/N7/Druckluft/Weihrauch_HW30/weihrauch_hw30.html
Ball-bearing detent, and windage adjustment by slackening a screw and shifting the rearsight blade.
I’m fairly certain that at least one German dealer (who may as well be on the far side of the moon, now, for all that we in the UK can order from them at the moment) used to have a diopter-sight variant of the HW30s – that is to say, it didn’t have the open rearsight on the barrel block as well. They certainly still have a similar variant of the HW35, and a Weihrauch branded diopter sight.
I’m not speaking from experience here, but common consensus in the UK seems to be that you really need to take the action out of the stock and take a good hard look – at the very least – at the cocking link and where it contacts the air cylinder.
Iain
Iain,
Thanks for that link. And for that pictrure.
BB
Hi folks,
now *this* is a report I’ve been looking forward to. The HW 30 S is very popular with some German folks who are beyond the “plinking and power” phase. The reasoning is that the HW 30 S doesn’t exceed the 7.5 joule limit by very much in the “non-F” configuration.Thus, there is less recoil, spring vibration etc. compared to more powerful rifles with a shortened spring. Many people like the light weight, too.
Actually, I’m tempted to get one myself. This thing should be a lot of fun for 10 meter shooting with open sights.
BTW, here’s a 2019 video from AirGhandi (a German airgun reviewer): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uoPIo1_7_g
I don’t know when that rifle was made, but at around 8:48, you can see the ball bearing detent and the removeable barrel.
Kind regards,
Stephan
Thank you for sharing that. Now, I know the synthetic one, the one I want, has the ball bearing detent.
Stephan,
Thank you for that! I know I will enjoy this little rifle.
BB
Stephen,
If you should get one, you will soon not think it so fun at 10 meters as it is so accurate you will become bored. My 12 year old grandson can regularly flip my 19mm spinner at that range.
So get him a 15mm spinner and a 12mm one.
Aim small, ………
-Y
Yogi,
I just received some spinners today. I think two of them are 15mm.
BB,
Could this 30S be the one? The one that you might like more than your 27?
Fish,
Maybe not more, but just as much.
BB
Hi BB,
Ah you say that now. I used to like the 27 better myself.
I recommend trying out the vortek kit they offer for the 30S. Just when you think it won’t get much better it really does.
Best regards,
Carel
Carel,
Yeah, what do I know? I’m doing this (testing an HW 30S) for the first time.
BB
BB
Huh testing a 30 for the 1st time?
You been recomending them for a long time but you never tested one.
Confused right now.
Perhaps in the light of the earlier R7 reports here.
The new 30 is way better than the r7 of a few years ago. You get sights and a better stock. The beeman version costs more and is lackluster.
/blog/2010/10/the-beeman-r7-part-4/
&
/blog/2017/06/how-accurate-is-a-beeman-r7/
Fish
Call it what you want.
I myself don’t want a R7 but I’ll take a hw30 all day long.
So no the reports you just posted is not a hw30.
The only difference between a 30S and an R7 is the stock. Why would you even say that? What’s happened?
Fish
Because I want a Weirauch not a Beeman.
I don’t care for the Beeman at all and thought that was a bunch of bull that PA don’t carry the hw30 anymore.
Dear Sir,
I also think that PA should carry the HW30S, just like the one BB has bought.
Respectfully.
Fish
Agree. I would like to see that happen.
BB,
The one here at RRHFWA has the “Beeman” style stock with no checkering and the front globe sight does not have interchangeable inserts. I have been planning on upgrading it. I picked up an old FWB rear diopter to put on it also. This air rifle may not be able to shoot with the Olympians, but it is close.
When my grandson is mature enough to take this home, I can see me getting another HW30S or HW50S to stay here at RRHFWA.
I can certainly understand your excitement about this air rifle. Weihrauch is going to thank you for writing this blog.
P.S. I really like that new stock design.
RidgeRunner,
My rifle only came with one insert, but it is the interchangeable model; I modified the insert with a smaller post, the top of which is exactly in the middle of the insert (because I like to plink, and have the pellet hit exactly where I am aiming; I do not use a 6-oclock hold). Since putting the 6X BugBuster on the HW30S, the front and rear sights have been sitting in a bag in my desk; if you shoot me your home address to my email ( thedavemyster@gmail.com ), I’ll send them to you if you like; I hate to see stuff not get used; thanks. =>
Take care,
dave
Dave,
Thank you. I really appreciate that. I think my grandson will really enjoy it also.
You are most welcome; I just got back from the Post Office; the package is on the way. =>
Awesome! Once again I thank you!
BB,
My 30S dates to December 2012 when it was purchased from PA. It has the ball bearing detent, and came with the same rear sight as on your new one. That sight has been off it with years, having been replaced by a Williams peep sight.
Alan
I’ll add that I too am interested in what you find relative to the cocking link and the galling issue when you open it up. I had read of the issue, so I was planning on looking for it and to correct it if needed. I’ll say that when I got mine, I had PA do the 10 for $10 test on it, and even that little use was already showing score marks on the main tube – mine had very strong contact there. So I smoothed out the marks and installed a bit of plastic in the U channel link to ride on the tube and prevent any further issues. It is such a simple solution, I don’t know why Weihrauch just does not do it themselves.
Also, I will second what Carel said on the Vortek kit – it makes a great shooting gun simply outstanding.
Alan
BB,
Thanks for this report… I think.
I don’t NEED another break barrel. Have my FWB 124 for that duty.
I don’t NEED another break barrel. Really like the sights on the HW 30S.
I don’t NEED another break barrel. Really like the stock on the HW 30S.
I don’t NEED another break barrel. Glad to hear that the LOP is 14 1/8″ on the HW 30S.
I don’t NEED another break barrel. Darn, I really would like to have a HW 30S 🙂
Think I have been “enabled” LOL! Will blame this on you BB!
Looking forward to the rest of the series!
Hank
Hank,
Me too! I’m looking forward to writing it. 🙂
BB
B.B., I predict you are gonna love this sweet l’il gal!
Hank, of course you don’t NEED one, but these little guns are addictive!
Yesterday, I had my phone on speaker when my brother called; we talked for almost an hour; and at one point he asked, “What’s that sound in the background?” Me: “That’s me shooting my HW30S; I’m talking to you from the shooting bench.” Him: “Cool.” The rifle is so quiet it did not disturb our talking at all; I told him the real noise was the “ping” of the pellets hitting metal targets (he’s a shooter as well, so cool with it).
Hank, these little guns are such fun; I’ve set at the bench for hours at a time, finding all kinds of targets in the yard, guesstimating the range, and finding the right mil dot to get on target. If you buy one, I guarantee you, you will not be sorry. =>
Cheers,
dave
LOL! Just remember, if you end up with too many airguns, send them to live at RRHFWA. 😉
Where can I get one for under $300?
Mikeiniowa
If I remember right. Before PA stopped carrying them you could get them for like $289 at PA.
I haven’t searched lately but I believe there is still places to get them under $300. Just not at PA.
B.B.,
I just started reflecting on how when I first starting to take up airgunning, I considered fiber optic sights to be the most desirable option, probably from ad and retail descriptions. But I quickly discovered your blog and came to consider simple and all-steel construction to be the open sight preference of most very serious shooters. Of course some serious shooters must like fiber optics, but I associate glow-sights with big box store air rifles, even of that is unfair.
It is interesting how over time impressions are formed and sometimes reversed by what we are exposed to.
Michael
Michael,
For fine target shooting the iron sights with the inserts (or better yet a peep sight) are my preference.
BUT – I do a lot of snap-shooting where I don’t look at the sights at all. Like shooting a shotgun, I focus on on the target and shoot the moment I the stock touches my shoulder.
In that instance, I like the glow-thingy sights as I use them (subconsciously) as a reference that the rifle is mounted correctly (all 3 dots align).
Like them both.
Hank
BB
I found a second stage problem with my .177 R9.
Right in the middle of the second stage pull, there was a glitch that was very distracting.
Took it apart and found a tiny pit right in the middle of second stage contact between the trigger and the guide.
I polished the guide to remove the pit and smooth up the guide. Used a Dremel polishing wheel to rub it with (by hand). Slapped on some moly, and problem fixed.
If I remember right, there was some problem with getting a spring back in, but I managed.
tt
Urban Legend has it that those pigeons that wander into grocery stores via the automatically opening doors. If they have not left on their own accord by closing time, after a brief chase with a net. A guy gets called with a detuned HW 30 to dispatch the problem. No pass through and less of a mess to clean up….or so I have been told.
-Y
Yogi
I have heard that before too.
Yogi,
The exterminators I know all use the TalonSS. That’s for grocery stores and for malls.
BB
B.B.,
I share the excitement of many of your readers about this series of reports. I am particularly looking forward to learning how you adjust the Rekord trigger. I am also hoping we get a detailed look at how you tune the rifle after the initial tests. Thanks for your good work, I look forward to reading all about it.
B.B.,
“Above the barrel detent I see a funny-looking notched breech. Wait! I saw one like this recently, didn’t I? Where was that? On the Diana 34 EMS? The one with the interchangeable barrels?”
So would you call that a splined barrel end? Can’t tell from the above picture how much depth is there but will a spline drive socket (custom sized?) be required to remove the barrel from the breech block?
shootski
shootski,
Yes.
BB
I was looking at some other reviews of Weihrauch rifles (linked from their website, handily), and circa-2018, the HW35 has a similar notched breech. The (UK) reviewer called it a barrel nut, which would make sense as a way of attaching the barrel to the breech block.
About the EMS concerns, I think the community needs to be more understanding with Diana on the supply chain issue. I bet the Covid 19 has gotten in the way of the implementation of the marketing plan and caused the delays – just bad luck in timing.
B.B. and the USA Reaership,
Well David Chipman for Gun Czar!
If you don’t know of him you will soon.
I pray he does NOT get confirmation.
He is currently the Senior Policy Advisor at the Gifford Gun Control Lobbying Organization. If this man ever read the Bill of Rights he certainly doesn’t show it in his track record.
Also, as I feared our President failed to specify FIREARM in most of his pronoucements. Like requesting that the Congress pass laws banning High Capacity magazines. If it gets written into law like that law will apply to your airgun mags with more than 10 rounds.
The nut has fallen how many more will fall in a Mast year?
shootski
Shootski
I saw you posted this the other day too.
Let me say this much. If I was to state what is on my mind about gun control and more I would be kicked off the blog.
Isn’t that a shame. What ever happened to the freedom of speech and the constitution and One Nation under God and the right to bare arms and all that other stuff.
I just have to shake my head and say what a shame this country has become.
I’m sure God is crying. Its ridiculous is all I’ll say.
Politics are ate up. And most will know what I mean by that if they have been reading the blog for a while.
GF1,
Yup. Top to bottom. A bit like watering your plants with gasoline and expecting something good from it.
I just wrote about an entire page in 30 seconds. Yup,… not blog appropriate.
Be well,… Chris
Chris
Yep. And you be well too.
Two of us would be banned for that reason, GF1; FM would probably go on some guvamint watch list. Glad I was proactive and ordered two more 25-round mags for my GSG-MP40, which are now safely stored in FM Land. Maybe oughta order another mag for the Umarex MP40. Seems silly, but not as silly as irrational policymakers.
I miss Charlton Heston – he wasn’t afraid to talk truth powerfully to those who need talkin’ to, powerfully.
FM
Yep.
Yep, “Big Chuck” was awesome! Always spoke the plain truth.
And he did a good job parting the Red Sea!
(in the movie, “The Ten Commandments”…a classic. =>)
My wife bought me his autobiography, “In the Arena;” a great read.
One of my friends from Israel once asked me, “You know that Moses actually parted the Red Sea?”
Me (messing with him): “Yeah; I know…I saw it on TV.”
Him (getting it): Yes, Charlton Heston did a great job as Moses!”
BB,
Glad you are super enthused with this rifle. It really showed in your writing. Looking forwards to more.
Chris
I bought my HW30 new back in the 80s
from a Goldstar dealer.
Has the ball type lockup. San Rafael Ca address
It looks like it has the Rokord trigger.
It is my favorite rifle and my second air gun
The HW30 and a Daisy 717 were my only air guns until I started following BB. You sir are the mega enabler. And I thank you for that.
sw1917,
Well that settles it -0- the 30 has had the ball detent all along. Now I have learned something.
Thanks,
BB
BB,
You are not mistaken. Please, scroll down the photos in the link.
https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery.com/weihrauch/weihrauch-hw30/
It says, “Barrel has chisel style locking detents not the ball bearing and pin of later HW30’s, detent retained by a screw in the side of the breech block, not roll pin as on current HW break barrels.”
What’s the lesson here? Godfather is never wrong!? 😉
Thanks for that pic! I stand corrected. The serial of the HW 30 in the photo dates from late 1966 or early 1967.
It would be interesting to know when the change to the ball bearing detent was made. I’m reasonably sure any HW 30 or R7 of Beeman days or later has it.
Also note the wear on the side of the breech block in that photo – Weihrauch did not start using those thin breech shim washers until the early 1970’s. You often see this kind of wear on earlier HW’s, and many pre-war barrel-cockers, too.
https://www.vintageairgunsgallery.com/images/2020/11/17/f3644936e9731fe54493e486a0856b33.jpg
That is a lot of ‘underpants’ for $300. What a great baseline for an air rifle.
Interesting about the cocking link rubbing, but what a great looking rifle.
Rob
I just have to say this is likely the best break barrel on the market for the price. You can do 35, or 50…but the 30 is so forgiving it will hit where you point.
BB,
As far as rekord adjustment; undo the big screw untill it is lose, then a turn back in. That’s a good start as far as all my rekord units go. You can always take the unit apart and stone it, not too hard, and end up with something as good as a vmach job.
Looking forward to this! The recent changes to this old favorite are interesting. Way back in “The Airgun Book” in the 1980’s, John Walter referred to Weihrauch as, “the last bastion of traditional airgunsmithing.” How truly lucky we are, that that is still true!
My 1988-vintage R7 has the ball-bearing detent. I don’t believe I’ve ever seen an HW 30 variant without it.
B.B.,
“The pull from the trigger to the center of the soft but firm red rubber butt pad is a manly 14-1/8-inches.” Thanks for pointing that out. For far too long the UK airgun press, on the rare occasions that they give the HW30s any coverage, call it a “junior airgun” suitable for teaching children to shoot. Even the official importer perpetuates this myth – see attached advertisement. Their reasoning appears to be that because the HW30s is lighter and shorter than most other springers, that that makes it a kid’s gun. Its weight and dimensions are similar to that of typical rimfire rifles though and its length of pull is just a smidgen shorter than the Hatsan 125 Sniper which is a real beast of a springer.
I bought a HW30s a few years ago to teach my (then 9 year old) daughter to shoot, only to discover to my annoyance that the length of pull was much too long for her. I taught her on a Baikal MP61 instead, which with its extendable stock can be adjusted to suit shooters of any size or shape.
The HW30s did not go to waste though and quickly became my favourite plinker. It is interesting how US airgunners seem to have a far greater appreciation of this little gem of an air rifle than their counterparts in the UK. I guess that is because, with no restrictions on muzzle energy in the US, airgunners there can indulge in “magnumitis” to their heart’s content and grow out of it quicker, whereas UK airgunners look with envy to FAC territory, maybe not realising that the 12 ft-lb legal limit is not such a handicap after all, at least when it comes to highly accurate, smooth-shooting springers.
Come to think of it, now that my daughter is a teenager, it is maybe time for her to try the HW30s again and see how she gets on.
Bob,
You have said it better than I could, because of your perspective. Yes — we U.S. airgunners are discouraged by magnum springers, so when a beautiful little rifle like the 30S comes along, we appreciate it.
Tomorrow’s blog will be Part 2.
BB
BB,
We are looking forward to Part 2.
By the way, if you haven’t already shortlisted which pellets to use for accuracy testing in Part 3, you might consider JSB Exact Express Diabolos in 4.52mm head size.
Bob,
I hope I have some.
BB