The HW 50S breakbarrel from Weihrauch.
This report covers:
- The test
- Air Arms Falcon
- RWS Superdome
- Crosman Premier 7.9-grain
- Cocking effort
- Trigger pull
- Loose stock screws
Today we look at the power of this HW 50S. As the website explains, we can expect velocities of up to 820 f.p.s. I know that has to be with lightweight pellets, and we are going to find out. I’m looking forward to this test!
Since many readers are comparing the HW 50S with the HW 30S, I will test it that way. And remember — I tested the 30S as it came from the factory and also after I lubricated the factory parts. Finally I tuned it with a Vortek PG3 SHO tuneup kit. You will want to know all three levels of performance.
Some guys never want to see the inside of their airguns and other guys can’t wait to tear them apart. Today’s report should give you good insight into how the HW 30S performed before and after its tunes, as well as where the HW 50S is right now, which is just as it came from the factory. I do plan on tuning the 50S, too. The Vortek kit is already on hand. Let’s get started.
I plan to use the same pellets for today’s test as I used for the last test of the 30S. One of those pellets was tested with the rifle at every stage of tune, so let’s begin there.
Air Arms Falcon
The Air Arms Falcon pellet was used in all three tests of the HW 30S. With it we saw the following results.
With the HW 50S the same Falcon averaged 810 f.p.s. The spread went from a low of 797 to a high of 829 f.p.s. That’s a difference of 32 f.p.s. And it’s also confirmation that the HW 50S is an 820 f.p.s. rifle out of the box!
At the average velocity the Falcon pellet generated 10.68 foot-pounds of energy. The HW 50S is definitely a more powerful air rifle than the HW 30S! However, that buzz with every shot is very troublesome.
The next pellet I tried was the RWS Superdome. Out of the box the HW 30S averaged 591 f.p.s. with Superdomes. I didn’t test them after the lube tune, but after the Vortek PG3 SHO kit was installed they averaged 623 f.p.s. That’s not much of an increase but I noticed today that the Superdome skirt does not want to enter the breech of the HW 50S barrel. I have to assume that is the same for the 30S barrel. In the HW 50S the Superdome averages 771 f.p.s. The low was 765 and the high was 780, so a spread of 15 f.p.s.
At the average velocity the Superdome in the HW 50S generates 10.96 foot pounds of energy. This rifle is almost at 11 foot-pounds right out of the box!
Crosman Premier 7.9-grain
In the HW 30S the Crosman Premier Light that’s no longer made averaged 593 f.p.s right out of the box. After the Vortek kit was installed that increased to 652 f.p.s.
The HW 50S averaged 806 f.p.s. out of the box. The low was 797 and the high was 816, so a spread of 19 f.p.s. At the average velocity the Premier Light generates 11.4 foot-pounds of energy.
Well, now we know. The HW 50S is definitely a more powerful breakbarrel rifle than the 30S — even when the 30S has been tuned. I think a lot of readers were waiting to see that.
The buzzing in the firing cycle bothers me, but that will be taken care of when the rifle is tuned. I suppose if you did nothing the rifle would calm down a little, but why do that when I can take it apart and make it dead calm? And even if you don’t want to open her up you can always use Tune in a Tube through the cocking slot. I might just do that for the next tune.
However, there is still one more concern and that is the cocking effort.
When I first cocked the rifle today I was surprised by how much effort it took. According to my analog bathroom scale the HW 50S takes 32 lbs. of force to cock. Compare that to the 22 lbs. of the HW 30S, both out of the box and after the Vortek tune. That will be interesting to watch as we go along.
The trigger is a Rekord, of course. It’s 2-stage with stage one taking 13.8 ounces to reach the stop. Out of the box stage two broke at 2 lbs. 1.8 ounces and the break was clean, as most Rekord trigger breaks are. But I didn’t like the pull. I then unscrewed the screw behind the trigger blade that lightens the pull by one and one-quarter turns and the first stage dropped to 11.7 ozs, with stage two breaking at 1 lb. 14.1 oz. I tried the pull with the rifle shouldered and I like it better.
A word of caution, I used a screwdriver that didn’t fit the slot in the adjustment screw as well as it might have and it slipped out, buggering the screw head. That screw is aluminum and not as hard as steel, so be sure the screwdriver fits well.
Don’t let this happen to you! Check those screwdrivers carefully.
Loose stock screws
This is more of a note to myself. After velocity testing all three of the stock screws were loose. I think the vibration had a lot to do with it. Note to self, check the stock screws before, during and after accuracy testing.
We now have a good handle on the HW 50S. It is definitely more powerful than the 30S, even when the smaller rifle is tuned. The 50S is larger and a little heavier, too. I guess the next step is to check the accuracy.
129 thoughts on “HW 50S air rifle: Part 2”
I cannot wait to see what’s going on inside this 50S.
30S or 50S for casual plinking? 30S hands down in the light of today’s report.
Opinion: The powerplant in 50S should be in 95/R9 or 80. Currently, the fastest well balanced .177 springer for plinking purposes would be a HW80 with 12 FPE vortek kit – still an opinion. I wonder if anyone here has that combination; I’d love to hear their experience with it. I bet no artillery hold would be necessary, and it would shoot light .177 pellets at around 800 fps without coil, need for barrel cleaning, and screws getting loose – query.
My current favorite list: 880, 30S, and…
and a long range plinker with .177 barrel, ~800 fps, 2 stage trigger, PCP, single shot no sights – what could it be…? AirForce Talon SS PCP, maybe?
Enough contemplating for today. 🙂
LOL! I bet your brain hurts after all that.
Dig back through all of the archives and you will find a lot on the HW80/R1.
Lol! My brain hurts all the time.
You know if I like the 880 good enough, I might even go to the darkside all the way and never look back.
880 as in a Daisy 880?
I vote that you use TIAT and shoot with that before taking it apart. With just the right amount applied we should see minimal to no velocity change and less vibration encouraging buyers who are not interested in taking their gun apart.
That is what I’m thinking of doing. That way the guys who don’t want to take their guns apart will have a way to quiet them.
I also vote yes to TIAT
Although I would suggest butcher it, just like what you did to the new FWB springer.
I second that motion.
I vote yes.
BB et al
I would vote aye, also, were this a democracy,, but it is more of a benevolent dictatorship, so perhaps just a whisper in the ear.
So let it be written. So let it be done! 🙂
I’ve definitely had the loosening stock screw issue with my HW30S. At least after I took it out of the stock the first time. I wonder if a little loctite might not be in order.
My 10/22 always rattles itself loose after 100ish HV rounds. The stock usually, but sometimes even the rear sight/optic rail.
Even 30S has the loosening stock screw issue, huh? Not really an issue, but still, I’ve never experienced such a thing with 27. Maybe because 27 is heavier? I wonder if 95/R9 or HW80 has any loosening screws with 12 FPE Vortek kit. I bet they don’t.
Well now I have to check the screws on my 30S, as well. I did before shooting for accuracy the last time, but the rifle is so smooth I thought they would hold tight.
So cool. I like the third clip in the first video. Classic example of spring piston gun recoil before the pellet exits the barrel. It’s sort of amazing that some of thse are as accurate as they are.
I had that issue with my HW30S as well. I used blue Loctite thread-locking compound on the stock screw, the two screws at the barrel pivot, and all the screws on the scope mount and rings. Now, thousands of shots later, all screws are still snug, with the little rifle piling all her slugs into one ragged hole at her sight-in range of 15 yards…I love these HW30S rifles, and eagerly await the rest of this series of B.B.’s reports on his HW50S. =>
Take care & good shooting to you,
A little Loctite will most definitely help. I have found it on newer airgun screws.
Please check to make sure that the cocking linkage is straight and free to move unemcumbered.
Many people complain about the high cocking effort. I like that fact that it is “short and sweet”. ie you do not need a long arcing cocking motion, only about 110-115 degrees.
Please tell us more about using proper fitting tools on airguns. I believe that soft metal is used for most screws. I once was told that this is so the screw threads could “stretch” and thus would be less prone to loosening. “Old Wife’s Tail”?
PS How is the cardboard protractor coming along?
Believe it or not, I’m still looking for the right piece of cardboard.
On the screw stretching thing, I know that does happen with steel bolts that are torqued to higher levels. This aluminum screw? I don’t know, but it’s possible.
As part of your tune, how about installing one of those Rowan Engineering “Set-back Triggers”?
I’ll look into it.
B.B. how about taking a picture of the gun with the barrel completely broken open, with your camera centered on the hinge. You may have to back up a bit and enlarge the image to not exaggerate the angles. I would imagine it could be set up like your gun profile pictures that you often place at the top of your reports. Then anybody can print out the picture, draw a few lines, and measure the angle off the picture with a protractor, scan the marked up image and share the measurement. Not super precise, but might be good enough for comparison. You could compare that with your cardboard protractor to see how accurate it would be.
I like Yogi’s cardboard idea best. Just gonna hafta find what I need. I know where to go. But the time? 😉
Old wive’s TALE, not tail! =8^O
How do you properly pronounce “Weihrauch”?
In German it’s pronounced VY raw.
Most Americans pronounce it WY rauk
Hi… Siraniko’s link is accurate. That’s how we pronounce it in German.
It’s hard for English speakers to say because English doesn’t have that kind of “ch” sound (just like German doesn’t have the “th” sound English has). “Why-rauk” is a good approximation.
“Weihrauch” is the German word for “incense”. If you translate it literally, you get “consecrating smoke” as “Rauch” is the german word for “smoke”. So, if Weihrauch guns are dieseling, you can basically say they are “weihrauching” 🙂
I love learning stuff like that!
Does not the W in German have a WV sound. By this I mean it starts off as a W, but ends in a V?
The ch sound comes from the back of the throat, does it not?
The W in “Weihrauch” is pronounced just like the v in “very”.
“Back of the throat” is correct.
I wonder which came first, the name or the dieseling airgun? Happy coincidence or marketing description? I think I remember reading that this is a multi generational, family-held business, so it’s probably a coincidence.
Weihrauch is a fairly common last name. Maybe one of their ancestors had connections with the church or was literally a producer of incense.
I don’t think they named the company after a pun in 1899 🙂
Besides, Rudolf Diesel apparently came up with his style of combustion engine in 1894. “Diesel” was probably not a common term until much much later when the technology became commonplace.
When one is in Germany, pronouncing Weihrauch any other way would take chutzpah. (Ach!)
When FM und Frau visited Hamburg in 2014 at the end of a cruise, he did his best to communicate with his faulty German; somehow the locals did not correct him much. A few even commented his pronunciation was “ganz gut.” They were being kind, but wonder if the way some vowels and consonants are pronounced in Spanish might have helped a bit with the German? With English, Spanish and a smattering of German bouncing around inside his head, no wonder FM feels he does not even understand himself! When he talks to himself, that is.
Good example! (Chutzpah, that is. The software seems to just put your reply at the end of the thread)
My dog’s name is Goselyn.
Is it easy to find prewar Diana 27 there?
I think I have seen them one or two times on eGun (like eBay but…you get the idea). But I didn’t pay attention to what they sold for.
Thank you, B.B. and Siraniko. That was on point.
What keeps the trigger adjustment screw from loosening with the vibration that loosens the stock screws? Does that ever happen? If it would fall out, will the trigger still function? Can you simply reinsert it, or do you have to rebuild the trigger?
The adjustment screws on both new rifles are too tight to move easily. But on older Weihrauch rifles they do move easily. The target model has a jam nut, if I recall correctly.
Interesting. I don’t mean to quibble, but I have tightened down the stock screws on my little Embark, but they seem to work themselves loose over time, even with blue locktite.
Could Red Loctite be loosened by heating the head of the screw with a soldering iron? Red might be enough to do the job.
I wouldn’t use red loctite.
A few days ago noticed the trigger guard screws on the HW95 were loose. At a friend’s suggestion, smeared some TefGel onto the screw threads and carefully retightened them; had already done this with the front sight rail and screws. So far, so good.
The TefGel seems to act as a “milder?” version of blue Loctite and provides some lubrication as well. Time will tell if this product is suitable for those of us with loose screws. 😉
B.B., would you say the 50S and the R9 are fairly close in power / performance?
Not at all. The R9 is much larger, heavier and more powerful. It’s a different gun altogether.
The R9 is the HW95.
I know that there are some that will disagree with me, but IMMHO a well made “hunting” sproinger will produce optimum results in the 10-12 FPE range. As any who have messed with sproingers much know, many factors come into play. However, at this power level a sproinger can have a nice balance between accuracy, weight, cocking effort, recoil, hold sensitivity, etc.
Of course, all of this is MMHO and subject to reeducation by those more knowledgeable than I.
I know a lot of British hunters who would agree with you on that.
You yourself have done a quite extensive analysis of the HW80/R1. If my rememberer is working correctly, I recall that even with the substantial increase in mass and a slight reduction in power, the hold sensitivity was still a serious issue.
By the way, I am still waiting for that book.
I wonder if it would’ve been that hold sensitive if it had been tuned all the way down to 12 FPE.
Maybe not, but it was not really designed to be that low. To do such usually entails a much longer piston to reduce the volume of swept air. That increases the mass of the piston.
I’d druther get an HW50. Less to carry around.
yeah, 80 is too much of an air rifle for 12 fpe.
for 95, 12 fpe is not that bad though – on paper.
anyhow, the more I read, the more I weight to the darkside. if I ever go back to the hobby, I think I’ll be looking at PCPs.
The “Darkside” awaits.
RR, thank you for sharing the PCP set. Would be a great way to restart.
There is that fellow who has photos of the many large rabbits he successfully hunted with a stock Feinwerbau 300s. His success was due to placing the shots precisely in the ear canal.
Lethal accuracy, not power.
Exactly. As a general rule, less power can mean better accuracy with sproingers.
B.B. and all,
Regarding the tightening of stock screws on springers, I have some thoughts. One is that if we tighten the screws really tightly, the wood behind them will be crushed to some degree. When we use Loctite, the crushed wood will crush down a little bit more over time and with the screw fixed in place, the action will be free to move a little. I use blue Loctite, so the screws can be removed — or tightened a little more, which I have been able to do. If we tighten the screws super hard and think they’ll never loosen again, well, we’ll be wrong again!
Mr. Murphy works very closely with springer stock screws, so when they loosen up I tighten them carefully, so I don’t ruin the wood and then look after them often. And I don’t use Loctite any more. This is my philosophy anyway.
That makes some sense. But why would locktite or vibra-tite cause the wood to get crushed if you didn’t torque the screws too much. It seems to me the stuff helps keep vibration from turning the screw. So if the screw was torqued just right, it would neither crush the wood or back out.
Makes me wonder if firearm target shooters ever have to check their stock screws.
The screw itself does not turn, but due to the vibration the wood becomes compressed under the screw head. Using the brass screw cups help, but being the wood is a “soft” material, the wood cells will become crushed over time.
Polymer stocks can do better, although some polymers are still “crushable” over time.
I’ve had the screws work loose on my 10/22’s combination rear sight/optic rail as well, which is metal-on-metal contact, albeit dissimilar metals (steel screw, aluminum receiver).
Although now that you mention it, both my HW30S and 10/22 are wood stocks vs. the laminate of my Savage Mark IIs.
Alot depends on how the fasteners work.
I’m sorry RidgeRunner, but I’m having difficulty in believing that the loose screws from a vibrating airgun have not turned at all. My understanding is that a screw is essentially a ramp wrapped around a cylinder and is generally held in place by friction. One would think that the vibration is enough to overcome that friction and cause the screw to turn itself out (down the spiral ramp). If you unwrapped the screw, would it not be like tapping wet snow off your snow shovel? Perhaps that is a bad analogy. Do you get snow where you are?
Oh, we do get snow here.
I was talking about screws with Loctite on them.
That’s the trick. It depends on how the manufacturer has set up the holding devices. Basically what fasteners they use and how. But there is always going to be the smashing or tearing of the wood.
And here we go. Now we are modding how the stock is held in place because why. The engineers didn’t do thier job. Or because cost is involved and they do just enough to get the gun to work.
Uh, yeah. Sooner or later the bean counters win.
Yep the bean counters.
To give them what little credit they are due, sometimes they keep things affordable.
Yeo that’s what I think too. But depending on how they engineered the set up from the factory.
Anywhere there is movement of any kind there will be wear.
The 50S is hard to cock for its power level. But it’s still a sweetheart.
I wonder if the springer manufacturers deliberately choose to have buzz and higher velocities (which sells more guns) instead of (more grease) less buzz and lower velocities.
I’d hoped to get some stats on my new .22 caliber HW50 to follow along with your reports on the .177 version but I’m tied up doing some renovations and getting ready for the winter. Plan to follow along with your blogs (as much as possible) so that people can compare the .22 to the .177 .
“Plan to follow along with your blogs (as much as possible) so that people can compare the .22 to the .177.”
B.B. & Hank,
I like this plan; prior to getting the HW30S, I was thinking of doing some hunting, and I was convinced the an HW50S would be the perfect “all-around” air rifle for plinking and [small game] hunting.
I read every piece of info I could find on the rifle, including lots of UK blogs. One day, I’d be convinced that the .177 version was the one to get; the next day, I’d be sure that a .22 version was the one I had to have. Either way, I think those of your readership who have not yet taken the plunge would be much better served by starting out with an HW50S (which is similar in power to my first springer, an RWS 45) than they would be if they went to a big box store and bought the latest “uber-sizzler,” complete with harsh firing behavior and poor accuracy. Once they read this full set of reports, and pick up an HW50S and a decent scope, they’ll be off to a good start on their airgunning career. =>
Blessings to you both,
For years I was on the HW30/ HW50 fence trying to decide which of the two would be best.
I’ve come to the conclusion that they are pretty much equal for an adult with the HW30 being more suited for smaller people. The choice of caliber and model is more about the application than anything else.
IMHO, in the plinking / light pesting realm, the HW30 leans towards plinking and the HW50 towards the pesting side of things. For small game hunting, of the two, the HW50 (in .22) would get the nod.
If hunting was the prime focus I would look to the more powerful models in .22 caliber.
I’m pleased with my .22 HW50S, think it suits my needs very well. Looking forward to shooting it more.
The 30 and 50 are different. I think I could say a 30 is like a detuned 50 in a sense only a little lighter and smaller.
“IMHO, in the plinking / light pesting realm, the HW30 leans towards plinking and the HW50 towards the pesting side of things”
Hank, I agree with your opinion; and since I have been in the “99.9% of my airgun shooting is plinking” mode, I went for the HW30S.
However, I am also in line with what you said here: “I’m pleased with my .22 HW50S.” Hence, while I really don’t need one, I still want an HW50S…and I think that desire will grow as I read more of B.B.’s reports and more of your comments. =>
“Hence, while I really don’t need one, I still want an HW50S”
I’m pretty much in the same boat…
Hence, while I really don’t need one, I still want a (.177) HW30S 🙂
Think that the lack of stock in Canada might be a good thing – my FWB124 covers that niche and she would be jealous LOL!
“my FWB124 covers that niche and she would be jealous”
The bad news is that the HW30S is still “out of stock” every where I’ve looked and no hint of that changing any time soon.
The good news is that I found a .177 caliber R7 (the HW30S rebranded by Beeman) 🙂
Nice rifle – well made/finished, light weight, calm shooting cycle and excellent trigger. Got a small Hawke 4×32 AO for it.
Can see why you like your HW30S so much!
The HW30S/R7 is going to be a fine plinker. My 124 need not worry as she is still my favorite “walk-about” rifle.
“The HW30S/R7 is going to be a fine plinker.”
I’m glad you were able to get that .177 Beeman R7; that’s exactly the same as my first HW30S, which was a Beeman R7 in .177 caliber; I loved that rifle and never should have sold it! And that Hawke 4×32 should be perfect for that rifle. 🙂
Wishing you great shooting with her,
I mentioned something the other day about the hw50 with the new style stock I just got.
Mine was buzzy and hard to cock. But it did cock smooth. No gaulding feel like the old ones would do when you cocked the gun.
But I ended up taking the spring out and a note. No spring compressor was needed. But my spring was bent on the piston end of the spring. Basically right after the spring guide ended. Also mine had about 3 inches of preload. I took 2 inches off the bent end of the spring. So the gun still has about a inch of preload.
Also the gun didn’t want to group out at 50 yards before I cut the spring. And that was with a few different .22 caliber pellets. A note: the AirArms 16.0 grain gave the best result before and after the spring cut.
Before it shot around 2 inch groups at 50 yards. Now it will hold right at a bit under a inch at 50 yards. I think that’s because the gun has a much smoother shot cycle. Now the gun has a quick small bump before it had a hard pump that was a little longer. Also I did add a light coat of blue tacky grease to the spring. It originally had a very very light coat of a black grease. And I mean a very light coat.
So now my 50 is very smooth and quiet. All I here is a small thunk when it shoots.
And something I mentioned the other day this 50 has probably the tightest lock up on a spring gun I have ever had. I have to bump it open and closed. It has got a bit easier now though. Got close to a 1000 pellets through it now. And the groups are tightening up more as I shoot it.
But now very happy with the gun and I have even grown to like the new style stock. It makes for a nice balance when you hold the gun to shoot. Oh and no artillery hold needed. It shoots the same with or without the artillery hold.
Oh and forgot to say this. I forgot to use the set crew in my back scope ring in one of the scope stop holes in the action. So far after the 1000 shot today the scope hasn’t moved a hair. Thats a good indicator of a smooth shot cycle.
So far yes. 🙂
Definitely happy with how it turned out.
I was thumping aluminum cans today. I had one at 15 yards, 25 yards, 35 yards and 50 yards. I got the scope sighted at 25 yards and I was placing the cross hair center mass on the cans and hitting every shot. And that was standing outside and shooting un supported. It’s like the gun won’t miss at 50 yards and in. It’s a very fun gun to shoot.
Thanks for posting this GF1! I’m taking notes 🙂
Less than 100 pellets through mine. Iron sights and tin cans are no problem at 25 yards 🙂
I have to finish renovating/painting before I can get into testing it. Hard to stay focused LOL!
No problem. And you know I’ll be wating to hear more about how you like yours. Keep us updated.
Been busy and the HW50 has to share trigger time with other airguns (including a new .177 R7) so I haven’t reached 500 pellets yet.
The 50 is the heaviest cocking of all my springers but I don’t find it to be excessive.
It will probably be after the snow flies that I will have time to go inside to address the buzzing. The 50 is OK as is but I wanted to have an excuse to disassemble it. I also have a Vortek kit but that will have to wait until I try the shorter spring and a re-lub.
I’ve always considered springers to be 25-35 yard airguns but then they have always been .177 caliber. I’m encouraged by your comments and am curious to see what this .22 caliber HW50S will do.
Thanks for the update. I need to get my 50 out and shoot it this weekend. I haven’t shot it in a while. Been busy too.
Let us know what you end up doing with yours.
Been a lot of talk this morning about Loctite for springers stock screws.
Anyone that has shot an airgun for at least one afternoon knows about inaccuracy problems caused by loose stock screws. Especially in springers. You might think the solution is easy: just add a little (blue) LocTite (or generic) to the screws, and snug them up nicely when you install them. Surely, that’s going to take care of it, right!!?? Well, not so fast…
If you have a pcp or springer in a synthetic stock, slathering the screw threads with Loctite, reinstalling them and letting them dry overnight might be enough. (A word of caution: The use of LocTite on ‘plastic’ or ‘synthetic’ stocks, like the RWS 34 Panther, and some Gamo models, for instance: LocTite and other thread-locking compounds with the same base liquid: LocTite can dissolve a plastic stock, and it can do it fast! It says it right on the tube or bottle. If that happens, your air rifle may become dangerous to cock and or shoot.
Stock screws in a springer that has a wooden stock require more prep. Here are suggestions:
First, Prepare Your Wooden Stock–Hardening the wood near the front screws on your wooden stock:
Before you proceed to install the stock screws themselves, the wood with which they are in contact needs to be hard-enough to keep it from being compressed by the screws when they’re tightened, even after those screws have been in there for a good long while. Why? If the wood isn’t hard-enough, even if you do everything else correctly, over time the wood will likely compress, and a gap will be left in-between the head of the screw and the wood. (Yes, even worse on soft beech than on hard walnut, maple, etc). When that happens, once again you have loose screws–not good. This primarily tends to be a problem on the front two 5 mm screws on the side of the fore-end of a stock, like the ones on the R1, HW77, RWS/Diana 34 as examples (I won’t name them all). There’s usually a lot more wood strength due to thickness where the main trigger guard screw is installed, so you can usually torque it down a little more without causing any serious damage.
Preparing to harden the wood: You’ll need a small tube of ‘runny’ or ‘thin’ Super Glue C/A, 3 or 4 cotton swabs, a paper towel, and a small piece of 4/0 steel wool if you have a spill onto a surface that shows. Don’t buy cheap or old glue–you’ll be wasting your time. And, don’t use the ‘gel’ versions of Super Glue/ cyanoacrylate–the gel isn’t thin-enough to penetrate down into the pores in the wood, and that’s what you’re after.
For use after you’ve hardened the wood, you’ll also want to buy two 5 mm metric flat washers, one for each side of the stock, to use in-between the head of the screw and the wood. (Screw cups with Allen screws are sort of a different animal, but hardening the wood is still the right thing to do).
Remove the receiver from the stock. If your stock has serrated lock washers on those front 2 screws, or has spring-type lock washers resting directly against the wood, I suggest you throw them away or use them for something else. The serrated type tends to fight you when you try to tighten a screw as much as it helps to keep screw heads from loosening, and either type can chew-up the wood pretty badly over time if it’s in direct contact–that’s where the new flat washers come in.
If you have an older springer with a wood stock that has leaked oil or grease into the screw holes take time to use a dental pick to poke tiny holes in the screw pocket, to get more depth of that wood hardened with the cyanoacrylate/super glue past the coating of oil/grease.
Getting ready to move: Give yourself some elbow room, because some of this next part where you apply the Super Glue needs to be done pretty-quickly, even-more-so if you’re not too precise as to where you apply the glue, or how much glue you apply. You’re going to be doing one side of the stock at a time.
Lay the stock down on either side first, and have the paper towel ready to soak-up any runs that occur onto the finish of the stock as quickly as possible. FWIW, I always wear a pair of reading glasses when I do this, because precision is a big plus. Drop about 2 or 3 drops of glue down onto the ‘open’ wood grain where the screw head rests when installed, and quickly whirl a cotton swab around the perimeter so the whole area is covered, and any excess glue is soaked-up. While the swab is still wet, you can swirl the swab around the ID of the hole itself to harden that part of the wood, too. That gives the area even more strength. (Note: I tend to stay ready to move my face away from the stock if necessary, because the C/A apparently reacts with polyurethane, and fumes often start to rise in a small plume of smoke. I don’t know that breathing the odiferous gas is a good idea).
Immediately look-for any glue that runs down through the screw hole and wipe it up ASAP with the paper towel. Also, if you accidentally got some glue on the side of the stock that’s facing the ceiling, wipe that off ASAP too. (Any small traces can be removed after the glue is set, with some VERY-careful buffing of the finish with the 0000 steel wool).
The glue will usually be fully-set in less than 1 minute at the most. At that point you can start any clean-up that needs done. Then, turn the stock over and repeat the same process on the wood down inside the other screw hole. With that, you’re done.
Now, if you read all of that and can stand to read any further, this gets a lot easier. It still needs to be done right.
Carefully-de-grease the threads of the stock screws and in the receiver with something like acetone, apply a small amount of VIBRATITE VC-3 (I’m not a fan of Loctite for this application) to both the male and female threads (I’ve found that a toothpick is very-good for removing any excess VIBRATITE on the threads), LET DRY, then install the screws until snug.
There’s no need to ‘gorilla-hand’ the tightness of the screws, especially not yet, and especially if your screws have Allen heads. It’s easy to over-tighten an Allen type stock screw if you’re using the long-arm part of an Allen wrench, because it allows you to use so-much torque compared to a regular screwdriver).
Now, immediately shoot 5 or 6 pellets into a backstop or whatever, and check the screws again to see if they’re still snug. If your rifle is like every one I’ve ever worked on, you’ll be able to tighten the screws by another 1/10 of a turn or so. Then immediately shoot 5 more pellets, and check the screws again. They’ll probably move just a little more, which is good. But, go ahead and do it a 3rd time. Think snug not tight.
The harder recoiling your springer is, the more it will be subject to the screw-tightness problem I described, and the more important the solution I described will become.
Thank you for this detailed method of reinforcing the wood to handle greater compression from the screws.
Crosman Premier Lights have been discontinued? Inconceivable! That’s as if Ford discontinued the F-150. I prefer softer pellets to those, but how many air rifles “like” CPLs more than any other pellet?
Is this them and they are calling them something else.
At least in the. 177 caliber your getting the same amount in the tin for the same money. Not so in .22 caliber from what I remember.
CPLs were 7.9 grain domed pellets.
Sounds like they are trying to replace them with the Essentials.
Maybe you should get a tin and try them and let us know how they do.
I don’t use light pellets so I have nothing to compare. Interested to hear if you try them.
I won’t need any pellets for a looong time, but in the photo on the P.A. page they look like they are made of soft lead. Premiums were made of a hard lead alloy with quite a bit of antimony. If these new ones are pure lead, that would be an improvement, as long as they are in strong tins so they don’t get damaged in transit.
The question is why now.
A couple of thoughts on mitigating loose screws…
With firearms it is common to install “pillars” (pieces of heavy walled tube) into the stock to spread forces and to allow higher torque on the screws. I think of adding pillars as a “medium complexity” mod that can be done in the average workshop.
A simpler solution is to degrease the hole and satuate the wood with thin CA glue (Super Glue) to reinforce it.
As a bit more evolved fix, I’ll bore the countersunk hole slightly deeper and epoxy a washer into the stock. Care has to be taken to control the drilling depth (ideally clamp the stock down on a drillpress) as the drill bit WILL want to grab and dig in.
The advantage of a pillar or imbeded washer is that the the wood is protected and lockwashers can be used the help stop the screws from loosening.
I’m curious about how the Marksman 70’s cocking effort compares to the HW 50S, but I don’t recall if you tested the Marksman 70’s cocking effort at any point in your experimentation?
Every single time I tested its velocity. Read this and scroll down to near the bottom:
All good ideas about reinforcing the wood so screws won’t come loose.
Something I have seen though is different manufacturers use different ways to secure the stock.
The worst is the ones that only use a star washer. All they do is keep eating the wood or plastic up the more you tighten from the guns shot cycle even if you harden the wood stocks. First thing is get a smoothest cycle out of your springer.
Now the 30 and 50 use a metal bushing that inserts in the wood stock and then a star washer and a bolt.
From what I have seen with the 30’s and 50’s I have had you do a couple tightenings then the bolts hold. No need for all those other steps with the super glue and loctite.
And here’s the thing too. I have grown to check the screws and bolts pretty much every time I shoot them (springers). Pcp’s and Co2 and pumpers are the same. But because of the more calm shot cycle than springer you don’t see them loosening as much as springers.
Remember I keep bringing up that too much preload in springers can effect more than one thing. Yep screws coming loose too. And like I just said earlier. My 50 has no scope walk. Yep shot cycle. The smoother the better.
B.B. and Readership,
Kevin and Hank have given you everything that I have learned over the years on mating action to stock properly.
Well done gentlemen!
I will add a bit for those of you interested in a bit of history on the process:
GOOGLE (or search engine of choice) Rifle Stock Escutcheon.
The word Escutcheon stems from Old French for PLATE or shield and Latin before that; the problem of how to protect wood from metal fasteners has been around for a long time and it seems that the KISS method is to spread the clamping force over a larger area of the wood and to do it in a way that is attractive or at a minimum not unsightly.
Wood that is properly selected from old natural growth is usually harder (within species) and more dense…that is why quality stock blanks are so expensive these days. The amount of figure is valued for how beautiful it looks to the eye but it is also typically stronger than straight grain and more dense. Totally true for Burl wood!
Firearm Rifle fasteners do come loose and effect precision. On each shot the barrel rings like a bell or tuning fork but the bang covers the sound it makes. That is one of the primary reasons for the move away from wood furniture to synthetics or metal chassis.
As Kevin pointed out degreasing/cleaning FINGER OILS from fasteners is critical to proper fastener holding function and effective torquing results.
That is also true for scope rings, dovetails but not so much for Picatinny/Weaver mount system.
shootski, first of all, my apologies, however, I just couldn’t resist:
I had to re-read the following sentence, just to make sure: “…Firearm Rifle fasteners do come loose and effect precision…”.
I wonder whether, rather than causing precision, influencing it was what was meant, or, in other words, instead to effect precision, to affect precision was what was meant.
Anyway, I do not wish to irritate more than I have to by pointing out what caught my eye, and so, I shall delete my comment within the editing-timeframe.
Please don’t delete you comment!
It brings up more to discuss with the accuracy of our language(s) in our communication attempts.
To my way of thinking on this: “Effect is a noun, and it is the outcome of an event or situation that created a change.” So to make it apply directly the loosened rifle fitting the effect is specifically the loss of precision it causes.
It doesn’t affect accuracy.
PS: I did a search and fount this:
A good rule of thumb to remember for “affect” and “effect” is: If you’re discussing cause and effect and you’re referring to the ending result of said cause, use “effect.” You can remember that “effect” represents the end, as they both start with “e.”
PPS: I should have said this at the outset of my reply that no irritation was caused. I am a student of English as it is not my first language. My first language is German and up until recently was a much more precise language. English and variations of it are very complex and difficult to learn and use!
As requested, I have left my previous comment, but oh dear!
I was wrong to criticise, and I stand corrected. “effect” is a noun, thus I was making a nonsensical comment. Sorry!
Not at all!
In English it is only sometimes a Noun!
I LOVE ENGLISH! Don’t you?
While reading this discussion regarding stock screws, and the types of washers used to help secure them, I thought of Belleville washers. For those unfamiliar, they are a type of cone shaped spring washer that can aid in keeping fasteners secure in vibrating systems. I have not used them on airguns, but do use them with good results in the construction of bolt on acoustic guitar necks (certainly a vibrating system). Just an idea.
We use them at work too. Maybe a good idea. ???
The most beautiful photo I’ve ever seen.
Wow! I learned so much today about a great many things! How does a washer help lessen crushing the wood unless the washer was a lot bigger than the screw head?
Is there anything else that can dampen the vibration on the stock screws and the stock, like rubber washers or a rubber bedding block?
And I engaged into many monologues.
I’ve just read BB’s 6 part report on 880. I guess it performs best with wadcutter pellets under 10 meters.
When I was a kid one of my pump guns I had was a 880 and I used Daisy wadcutters out to 35 yards on sparrows and starlings in our pole barns on the farm. I would occasionally miss but not often.
The other pumpers I had back then was a 760 and 392. The 392 was the bad boy of the bunch.
I consider 880, because it’s the cheapest rifled pellet shooter that I know of. If I end up moving to NYC or JC, I’ll quit the hobby altogether. I wanna play now, and if I moved, I wouldn’t care about 50 bucks minus in the balance. So kinda not wanting to spend whole a lot right now. I won’t ship the 27 here either, then I will have to ship it back. She is happy where she is!? Covid still blurs the plans; I would’ve moved, or not moved, a long time ago. By the way, folks take good care of your cars; car prices are crazy nowadays, and that’s if you can find one!?
The 880 would make a nice plinking gun. Indoors or outdoors.
I have one of these. I’ve opened mine up a couple of times, to fit a top hat, trim the spring, collapse a coil and square the ends, all to bring it comfortably into the UK legal limits, and reduce its “rasping cough” sound. Yes, you’re right, the original spring did have a slight bend in one end (so I cut it at that end to help straighten it up).
Regarding the cocking effort, I noted galling between the cocking arm and tube. Even though there’s a roller, the galling happens further up. The only way I could alleviate it was to file the cocking arm a little in the regions where it touched. That has worked, and the cocking effort is much better. I believe that the newer models have a plastic insert in the cocking arm.
Putting it back together, it was fiddly to get the thin shim washers in place on the barrel bolt. Other than that it was pretty straightforward and there are plenty of videos online on how to disassemble it.
Love your blog, and am only just starting to get used to the new (WordPress?) format. I liked the old (Blogger?) style!
I’ll look for those things when I open her up. Thank you!
Yeah, changes are hard to adapt to. aren’t thery?