Sig Virtus PCP air rifle.
This report covers:
- Made in Japan
- Description
- Hammer-forged barrel
- Backup Iron Sights (BUIS)
- Plastic
- Trigger
- 3,000 psi fill
- Summary
Today we return to look again at Sig’s Virtus PCP air rifle. The first four reports on this precharged pneumatic rifle (PCP) were back in 2020. Then, a couple weeks ago for reasons I don’t understand, Sig sent me another Virtus to test. So I will look at this one with fresh eyes — as if I never saw one before.
Made in Japan
You read that right — the Virtus is made in Japan. I remember dialog from the movie, Back to The Future 3 when Doc Brown tells Marty, ” No wonder this circuit failed. It says made in Japan.” To which Marty replies, “What are you talking about, Doc? All the best stuff is made in Japan.”
When I was a kid in the 1950s, to say something was made in Japan was an insult — the hallmark of junk — the same as made in China is today. But by the 1980s made in Japan was the mark of well-made products. Well, this Virtus is made in Japan!
Description
The Virtus is a .22-caliber 30-shot semiautomatic PCP repeater. And .22 is the only caliber it comes in. It copies Sig’s MCX Virtus Patrol, a 30-round 5.56mm battle rifle that’s designed for special operations. One tester said if his AR-15 was a Honda Civic, the Virtus Patrol was a Lexus. That writer said the Virtus had a softer recoil, though the 5.56mm cartridge is hardly known for its recoil, but the Virtus’ short-stroke piston allows the elimination of the buffer tube that the AR’s direct gas impingement operation requires. I own an AR-15 and can tell you that buffer tube is a weak spot in the design, because:
A. the buttstock will nearly always work loose and rattle and
B. the buttstock cannot be folded to the side, while the Virtus buttstock can. If you have ever ridden with a small crew inside an armored vehicle, saving length on your rifle is a desirable thing. It’s one place where the AK platform has it over the AR-15/16.
Yes, BB knows there are AR butts that allow side folding today. They are workarounds, but they do exist.
However, this Virtus PCP we are examining has a 213 cc air reservoir in its butt, so the buttstock neither folds nor adjusts for length of pull. What you get is a 13.5-inch length of pull. The barrel is 17.5-inches long and the overall length of the rifle is 37.5-inches.
The air rifle weighs 7.5 pounds empty. The firearm weighs 7.9 pounds empty, so pretty close there. I will explain the possible small difference later.
The firearm is extremely modular — to the point of surpassing the AR platform. Caliber and barrel length changes are performed quickly by the user, which is one huge reason for anyone to spend over $2,200 for the basic platform. ARs, often called Lego guns, can also change calibers and barrel lengths, but only by swapping out entire upper receivers.
The air rifle is not modular at all. It’s a .22 caliber PCP and that’s it.
Hammer-forged barrel
Both the firearm and the air rifle have hammer-forged barrels. There is very little practical value to a hammer-forged barrel over a button-rifled barrel, but the title sounds cool and the marketeers highlight it. “They” will tell you that a hammer-forged barrel is smoother inside, but run a tight patch or wire brush down MOST of them and discover the lie. You will feel the rod pulse as it passes tight and loose spots.
Yes, if enough time is spent hammer-forging the barrel, like Weatherby once did, the result is a better product. But high-rate production barrels are not made that way. The biggest reason for hammer-forging today is it’s cheaper. If you’re making 10,000 barrels, spend the big bucks to buy a hammer-forging machine and recoup your money at some point. If that new hammer-forged barrel costs X, it’s a high-rate production item. If it costs 3X then it may possibly be done right and worth the additional cost.
Backup Iron Sights (BUIS)
The Virtus PCP has iron sights that fold down when optical sights are used or up when you want them. The front sight adjusts for elevation and the rear sight for windage — just like their military firearm counterparts. Unlike the military M16 front sight that requires the pointed tip of the bullet in a loaded cartridge to adjust the front sight up and down, the Virtus comes with a handy front sight adjustment tool in the pistol grip. I always HATED that M16 front sight adjustment, and thankfully, people who actually shot rifles eventually changed the rear sight to make it adjustable for both windage and elevation. That is the way it’s done, folks — I don’t care what cereal box you got your rifle from!
The front sight adjusts up and down for elevation.
A combination tool in the grip is for adjusting the front sight, adjusting the rear sight, tightening the Allen bolt that attaches the buttplate to the reservoir and loading the belt magazine.
I will attempt to sight in this air rifle at 10 meters with the open sights. I discovered back in 2020 that I could not get the iron sights to hit the aim point at 10 meters. The rifle I tested back then hit 6 inches below the aim point at 10 meters. Adjusting the front sight post down as far as it would go brought the group up to 2 inches low. I will approach this test as though I am not aware of this previous issue. And I want to say right now to everyone who said fixed barrel spring guns are better than breakbarrels because they don’t shoot low — YOU MISSED IT! Fixed barrel rifles also shoot low, as do bolt action firearm rifles. Shooting low is not because of the breakbarrel pivot point. It is something that most rifles, be they pellet or firearm, do.
Plastic
Yepper, the Virtus has a lot of plastic in it. I will now switch over to the more acceptable word — synthetic. Still, this stuff looks like good stuff and I doubt it will be a problem. The firearm has aluminum where the air rifle uses synthetics (forearm/frame and Picatinny rail), and that might be where the additional five ounces of weight come from.
But guess what? Because of its construction the Sig Virtus PCP retails for $280. It is well under the price point PCP limit of $300, that BB recently raised to $350.
But because of the synthetics you’ll want to be careful tightening those accessories that attach via the M-LOK slots that are found everywhere on the forearm. Just don’t get stupid.
Trigger
Okay, BB is closing his eyes at this juncture. The last Virtus air rifle I tested had a heavy trigger that is used to advance the 30-round belt magazine. Because of that I had difficulty wringing out all the accuracy that rifle offered. This time we shall see. Remember, I’m doing this with fresh eyes, so let’s hope something has been done.
The Virtus uses a 30-round belt for the pellets. The white chambers tell you where you are in the belt.
3,000 psi fill
Sig wisely limited the fill pressure to 3,000 psi. That means that the reservoir will not drain your air tank or overburden your compressor. It also means that filling from a hand pump is possible.
The small size of the 13 cubic-inch reservoir, coupled with the air regulator means you should be able to physically handle the task. And the maximum energy of 12 foot-pounds means that there should be plenty of shots available. Plenty!
Summary
Well, that’s it — a fresh look at a PCP that we saw two years ago. Let’s see how this one does
B.B.
I still don’t get the whole replica thing. To me it is kind of like playing GI Joe…..
-Y
PS How about a blog on Paint Ball guns. At least that is more realistic Gi Joe.
LOL! I am with you all the way there Yogi! I am not much of a replica fan myself.
Now as for paintball, I have done it once. Teaching kids that shooting each other is a game is not a good idea, but it looks like it is here to stay. So is airsoft, and a few other things we would be better off without.
FM gets where you all are coming from; for some the “replica thing” is to have an opportunity to experience a little of what firing the real historical firearm felt like, the carrying of it and with the more realistic ones, going thru field-stripping. FM got himself the Umarex MP40 because (1) paying $27000.00 plus for an original was not an option and (2) not keen on going thru the ATF hoop-jumping exercise for one. The GSG MP40 provides even a more accurate experience because it is a true 9mm semiautomatic pistol, if you can live without the folding stock. Or you can apply with ATF to get authorization to mount one. Not a fan of the postwar replicas though – not my thing but to each his/her passion.
FM,
Over the years I have “played” with various auto weapons. What many couch commandos do not think about is feeding one of those things. Even a Mattelomatic can get right expensive. Think what a Ma Deuce must cost to feed. The outrageous price of the weapon is only the beginning.
That feeding-the-beast issue played a big part in FM’s decision not to acquire that nice MG42 offered to him once upon a time in Miami even though 8mm could be had for $0.10 or less per round at that time.
Personally, I am holding out for a replica of the Sten. 😉
Grease gun, Sten and such sucked as original. Their sole purpose was to be cheap. Grease gun was created just because Thompson was a bit too expensive to buy and operate during war. Am I wrong? We need Diana 27, not a BB Sten. Just an opinion, respectfully.
@ RidgeRunner — “…airsoft, and a few other things we would be better off without”
I only shoot paper targets in my basement, but I had the impression that airsoft (and paintball and Simunition and …) gave you a potentially valuable way of doing realistic force-on-force combat training.
Do you see it differently? Tell us more.
Guy Carden
Spokane, Washington
Guy,
Does the military use it? I am just asking a question. It seems to me that if it was realistic, the military would be all over it.
Ridge Runner,
“Does the military use airsoft?” Good question. I’ll attempt an answer.
I’ve seen lots of references to police units and civilian instructors doing force-on-force and scenario training with airsoft. Here’s a link to a 2022 Police1 article comparing different systems, implying that airsoft is standard, and arguing that “training marker pistols” are better:
https://www.police1.com/police-products/less-lethal/articles/make-your-force-on-force-training-more-efficient-and-cost-effective-513TvO9t108v78Bu/
The US military has a long history of training with simulated weapons of various sorts. When I was a Munitions Supply Officer in Africa in 1967, almost all the bombs our pilots dropped in training were 15 or 20-pound pieces of steel cleverly designed to mimic the aerodynamics of a 500-lb or 2000-lb bomb. (They had a shotgun shell triggering a smoke marker so you could tell where the bomb landed.) Kratman has a useful short discussion in Training for War Chap 6 #12:
https://www.baen.com/training-for-war.html
For scoring small arms hits in combat training, the standard has been the MILES laser system (“Multiple Integrated Laser Engagement System”), though some people argue that the straight-line instant laser hit trains people to be bad shots on moving targets. (Kratman Chap5).
I’ve also seen a number of military references to Simunitions, “Ultimate Training Munitions”, and similar systems where the issue weapon is modified to fire a reduced-power marker round that can be used in force-on-force training. For example, UTM reports (2017) that they provide 5.56 marker systems to the military and that they have just been given a contract to provide training systems and marker ammunition for the new M17 handgun.
https://utmworldwide.com/military-3/
Only found three references to airsoft being used by the military. For example, in 2018 the Coast Guard bought SIG AIR Pro Force P229 airsoft pistols to duplicate their SIG P229 service pistols for force-on-force training.
https://www.military.com/kitup/2018/11/05/coast-guard-buys-sig-p229-airsoft-clone-its-new-training-sidearm.html
As with the MILES laser system, there are arguments that low-powered marker rounds or airsoft train in bad habits, since interior walls and furniture stop shots where a firearm would just shoot through. This article critiques airsoft-based training in a police active-shooter context:
https://www.police1.com/police-products/firearms/training/articles/lessons-learned-from-7-years-of-active-shooter-response-training-d5HlgqZ1C5aI6H0X/
Summary: Airsoft is one of several systems that can be used for simulated combat training; all the options have advantages and disadvantages that require analysis.
Cheers,
Guy
Guy,
My money would be on the MILES as it gives a better range. Though it would be quite unsuitable for sniper work or other long-range shooting, most combat situations are at 50 yards or less. Also, the Mattelomatic is quite flat shooting out to a considerable range.
I can see where airsoft would be good for training in close range situations such as would be encountered by police, Coast Guard, et.c. and I have no experience with the new gel pellet shooters, but all training systems have their faults. I can see where reaction times can be honed with such, but nothing will replace handling and firing the real thing. “Playing” with a mixture of these “toys” AND more range time will likely be the proper solution.
Live rounds zipping by have a serious affect upon your focus.
Yogi,
A lot of truth to your GI Joe comment.
BB
BB I have found on PB rifles that hammer forged barrels are the most accurate of production barrels. now they also do the chamber instead of a separate operation which might not line up perfectly
mildot52,
And by PB you mean powder burning, which I call firearms?
BB
Yogi,
I agree. These replicas are childish. I think air guns are much more beautiful. A 22LR should be the replica of the prewar Diana 27, for example. The AirForce Texan is way, way better looking than any ‘modern’ firearm I know.
Fish
Yogi,
As this is a bigger issue with the pistols, I wanted to say that Crosman 2240 is the best-looking pistol. I know beauty is a subjective matter, but I have not seen a firearm pistol – center or rim fire – better looking than her.
Fish,
Do not sell the Sten short. No, it was not a sniper rifle. It was cheap and very easy to manufacture, but in close quarter combat it was mean. It was really quite ingenious. It did have issues, but those were addressed in the later model Stens, the Sterling and the Uzi.
As for the M3, it was a much better weapon than you give it credit for. It saw duty in WW2, Korea and Vietnam. It was the preferred weapon of many. No, it was not a sniper rifle either, but neither was the Thompson. The M3 was easier to manufacture, maintain and operate. It was also considerably lighter.
Now, as for the Diana 27, you could get an HW30 and have something really nice. Diana did try to bring the 27 back recently using a different model number, but the low power level did not go over well.
RR,
M3 & Sten, they were cheap workhorses; they did their job. I think M3’s advantage over Thompson was speed. M3 was slow in auto mode, so it was not consuming as many rounds as the Thompson.
I just want to see the 27 produced again – not that I’ll go buy one. I already have one. By the way, I hope you didn’t mean the 240 Classic, which is still in production. With its fiberoptic plastic sights, no wonder it cannot fill the shoes of 27.
Fish
Not a big fan of glowy thingy sights either.
The HW30 has the sights you are looking for. A real nice trigger also. Very well-made little air rifle.
So, what’s the deal here? SIG made significant changes to this one? Or a new marketing manager decided to push their brand image to the serious airgun community again, after killing the ASP project that is. Maybe we will have to expect a new “we the people” replica test?
Oh well, I will have to finish the first cup of coffee of the day without the usually special blog. Bitter…
Probably a new batch of marketeers.
RR,
We shall see.
BB
It will be interesting to see in the upcoming parts.
I really like sub 12 ftlb guns, high shot count, good accuracy, power enough for small pest without damaging the buildings if you have a pass through.
If this turns out to be an improvement over the last one then we can call it the SIG Virtus generatio duo.
I have shot the what I will call the Gen 1 Virtus, the trigger was not too bad in my opinion, not the greatest by any definition, but I have shot worse.
The looks, it is what it is, I don’t mind the AR platform look, but the bottle butt stock kills the looks.
What killed the Virtus for me was the lack of accuracy, l can look past everything else.
I was surprised to see this subject today, I have noticed Sig’s recent wandering through the air gun market trying to find what direction they want to go.
In my opinion (and we know the saying about opinions)
Bring back the ASP, and market the heck out of it.
Fix the accuracy issues with this one, and enjoy the ride.
And lastly, make some of the parts to REPAIR the airguns available to the public.
I can buy almost every part of a Sig firearm online from them except the serialized frame.
And yet, they will not sell me $6 worth of parts to repair the piercing pin and seal for a SIG 226 co2 air pistol..
Ian.
I was fortunate enough to win one of these during the PA contest some months ago. Although no match rifle, it does what it was designed to do quite well. I got it sighted in to point of aim at 35 feet without any issues. You won’t find a better can mangler anywhere. Thanks PA!
lol the gun forums are full of people that won guns. I have never won anything. that is like the forums having many who say they won the lottery
Here, here!
Well, I have to state that I have some prejudices against this thing. To start with, it is a replica. By now, most people know how I feel about such things.
Another thing is that pellet belt. It is a weak point as it is plastic AND it is the chamber. It cannot withstand high pressures and there is a leakage of gas around the front and back of each belt linkage when it is fired. How true is the alignment of the chamber and the barrel with each shot?
Also, this is really a double action revolver, no matter what it looks like. The trigger advances the belt before each shot. This is why it is so heavy.
Sig really needs to bring back the ASP20.
R.R.
Quite true on everything you mentioned. SIG could even sell the royalties/patent/machinery of the ASP to someone willing to make serious airguns. About the revolver thing, I will keep my AR6s, thank you.
I don’t blame you.
Upon further reflection, you had best keep your AR6’s.
The ASP20 has come and gone. Production costs here in the USA or Europe would be too high. No one would buy it like no one bought it when Sig made it. I doubt very seriously a Chinese company would make a version of it worth owning.
Personally, I would much rather have an HW90. You can buy one and buy different barrels to swap out to whatever caliber you desire. Also, with the Theoben gas piston you have some adjustability of the output power. This will help to tune the air rifle to different pellets.
It had its day in the sun. It is now in the realm of the “collectors”.
R.R.
As a matter of fact I had in my possession an HW90, 4.5. Quite recently as a matter of fact. Unfortunately I found it too heavy, 9.5 pounds, for off hand shooting. That’s without a scope… I only regret selling it because of the current prices going sky high since it was bought real cheap. Oh well.
They are right heavy from what I understand. It would be nice to get my hands on a nice Theoben, but if you find one it seems to be made of unobtainium.
My HM1000X is pretty hefty. So are many of the 10-meter air rifles. Yes, it can be a bit tough to lug around, but it helps with the aiming.
RidgeRunner,
You have likely seen this GTA Thread already but I just found it: https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=183823.20
I laughed at first but then realized it indicates just how this situation on the SSG ASP20 is going to play out. They will rarely be seen for sale until Estate Sales errors are made.
shootski
PS: it also shows how much Hokum is spread by a bunch of KNOWNothings in our airgun community.
Shootski,
No, I did not read this. For one thing, there are very few I will trust when it comes my airgun purchases. I was never really interested in the ASP20 because of the description of the trigger that BB gave us. despite that, I was still considering a synthetic stocked one when I heard they were no longer available.
I have seen many fine airguns come and go, many because though they were nice, the price was high. An example is the ASP20. Sig apparently decided the sales numbers did not justify the devoted production costs, equipment, personnel, etc., most especially after receiving the military contract for their pistol.
What of the FWB Sport or the Diana 340 Luxus? They were top shelf and priced accordingly. Priced too high really. They cost too much for the newbie and the price was high enough to make the experienced hesitate.
Most companies want a quick kill profit, so they went away. The marketeers have also convinced the airgun companies they need to have a new model every year like the car companies, etc. do. The latest and greatest sells for a brief flurry and then sales taper off.
Companies like Weihrauch understand the long haul. They have developed a very nice line of products over the years and continue to offer them at prices newbies may consider high, but experienced shooters know that for the quality you get, they are very reasonable.
If one of the aforementioned air rifles should want to live at RRHFWA and the price is what I consider reasonable, I may pick one up. Otherwise, my money is on Weihrauch or such.
We should not hold our collective breath expecting the revival of the ASP20 to happen. No sweat – there’s lots of pretty ones to “dance” with out there. 🙂
No, it is not likely going to happen.
RR,
I couldn’t agree more on the Sig ASP. At the very least sell it to someone who will produce it (with the same quality of coarse).
Doc
That is just not going to happen. Who would buy it?
Velocity Outdoors? It is too expensive to manufacture here in the US.
One of the European bunch? They have as good, if not better going right now. Why should they bother?
The Chinese? They would just make a cheaper copy that nobody would like.
No. It had its day in the sun. It has gone its way like many a fine air rifle. Some present owners will foolishly let them slip from their hands and someone like myself will come along and know what it is and add it to their little “collection”.
R.R. and anyone else kind enough to bear with me;
I like the expression “It had its day in the sun”, never an English teacher taught me.
So if there’s a Walther lgv challenger, simple/ultra, is waiting in a box unused at my favourite local provider should I pay the 300€/360€ accordingly for one?
Well, they are pretty good air rifles. I have heard good things about them. Perhaps if you dig around on the web you can find out more about it.
RidgeRunner,
“Some present owners will foolishly let them slip from their hands…”
I have been looking, and looking, and looking…must be in all the wrong places! Have you found any for sale that aren’t STINKY SCAM smelly? I’m even willing to buy “parts” guns!
shootski
RR,
I agree – ASP20 has to be back. How about starting a list of historic airguns that we want back? I want Diana 27 as shown in the link below – with proper iron sights and such.
/blog/images/12-22-08-27.jpg
Get an HW30.
What if I want both? 😉
I am not a big 27 fan. It’s OK, but there are better out there.
The 27 sort of reminds me of the Sten. Simple and inexpensive to make. 😉
RR,
You should become a salesperson for Weihrauch!? I think I’ll eventually own a 30S, but still, there is something about the 27 that I cannot explain.
LOL! Oh, I understand that. My 1906 BSA will be the absolute last airgun of mine that I would get rid of. Do I have better shooting airguns? Oh yes. There is just something about that long steel and walnut sproinger that really appeals to me.
I would love to be a sales rep for Weihrauch. I could probably get a decent discount then. I have an HW30S here at RRHFWA. It is an awesome little airgun.
RR,
“The 27 sort of reminds me of the Sten. Simple and inexpensive to make.”
How could you say that?! The latest models of the 27 had excellent sights. Just in the sake of those beautiful iron sights, she shouldn’t be considered as in the same production mentality of the Sten or the Grease Gun. I would say the 362 seems to be more like the Sten. Just like the Sten, 362 is inaccurate, cheap, and equipped with a pair of crude sights – also did I mention cheap?!
😉
Fish
ROTFWL! Someone is sounding like a Diana salesperson!
I have “played” with both the Sten and the M3. I would not sell them short. Also, the later models of these were vastly improved over the originals.
If a Diana 27 was to come my way, I would likely make a place just for it here at RRHFWA, right beside the HW30S. 😉
B.B., and Readership,
SIG USA isn’t currently selling this!
They also removed airguns from their drop-down menu bar across the top of their pages; you can look at the tiny letter page map area down at the Bottom-Left for “air” to get to airgun stuff.
Maybe it got lost in shipping for two plus year, LOL!
shootski
shootski,
Pyramyd AIR still sells them, so I’m proceding on.
BB
B.B.,
Certainly still interested in how or IF certain features have changed perhaps for the better.
Since it is just a Japanese PCP in SIG clothing I wonder if they are sold in Japan?
Do you know who the Japanese manufacturer is?
shootski
Shootski
I have a Daisy Winchester m14 semi-auto pellet shooter made in Japan.
It’s accurate and quality seems good.
Gunfun1,
I know that the Japanese are very capable of making great things. They have been for centuries. Yes when I was a young boy getting something that had made in japan on it typically meant it was going to be junk; but was that an inability to make quality things or was that CHEAP Cr@b…(You need to be dyslexic to read my meaning) STUFF what the US importers demanded to maximize profits?
My question was more along the lines of what Japan’s Draconian Gun and Sword Control allows; last time I checked they only allow 500 handgun licences for the entire countries population!
shootski
It’s in small print because it’s embarrassing to say they make airguns?
Wingnut6799,
I don’t think it is embarrassment as much as signaling a shift away from airguns. My opinion: SIG USA decided some years back to dip their toes into airguns and their read on the airgun market, especially the in the USA was wrong. They went with a big investment in a in-house produced ground breaking break barrel. Granted it was a powerful MAGNUM but in a country that falls for faster, higher, basically MORE POWERFUL in anything their timing was awful. PCPs can do all of what the SIG SSG ASP20 can do and in spades! It was priced at the GREAT DEAL but above Big Box buyer’s comfort level. The USA airgunner community pretty much didn’t give it the credit it deserved…other than our own Godfather of Airguns. Foreign manufacturers got their USA SHILLS to badmouth the rifle as a Firearm shooters airgun…like it isn’t as HARD TO SHOOT as we the blessed accololites of break barrel/Spring Piston guns want them to be….oH! and it is a GAS PISTON TOO!
Then SIG got BIG military contracts and it was easier to justify writing off a few million in development.
Business sense embarrassment YES! Airgun manufacturing and design sense was Spot on.
That’s what I think happened.
shootski
I pulled the trigger on the Jerry Cupples Pelletgage even though I never thought I would be buying even one. Instead I bought FOUR .177, .22, .25, and .308…I don’t own a .20 caliber so I only brought the other four.
Why on Earth would I change my mind? I’m not going to shoot in competition. I’m not even doing it for the PA MOA Challenge.
My only REAL reason is the number of bullets (slugs) I’m shooting these days and their high unit cost to buy or the work/time to cast. I have used calipers and micrometers for years. I also used airgages when i had access to them and even tried bullet concentricity (Runout) measuring devices. They all do only an adequate or worse job of inspection and verification because of the TIME it takes for setup and actually testing large enough samples.
I’m going to see what the downside of the Pelletgage design is (IF ANY) and address any modifications to the base model to make it work better for my purpose.
The cost per unit for bullets and components for firearm reloading has gone up and availability is VERY spoty.
I see similarities in the airgun ammo situation.
I’ll let you all know how things go in actual use for a mostly “off label” use of the Pelletgage.
shootski
Shootski
Anybody that shoots a lot should have pelletgages except for folks who only plink. Mine have taught me which brands to avoid. There is only one that I check every pellet now because when sorted they are a favorite pellet in a couple of guns. Now days I mostly do sample checks on new tins.
Deck
Deck
What do you do with the sorted pellets that don’t end up in the good pile.
Send the others my way if they don’t get used. 🙂
GF1
They are used for sighting in a scope. Close enough for that propose.. The inventory doesn’t grow. Early on there were too many outLiers until I narrowed my pellet buying.
Deck
Shootski,
I have found Pelletgages useful. I have three. I find them especially useful for evaluating the sizes of ammo for old, odd caliber vintage airguns. Specifically, 4.40… 4.45… and 4.50 caliber rounds.
Some lead round ball ammo is still made today in 4.40. But I find even this modern manufacture varies by as much as 0.07.
Older stock production (think 1970’s Sellier and Bellot) round balls are just as variable in diameter. If not worse.
I have a top notch micrometer. But I find it is impractical to guess the “wide” side to measure. Many of the round balls are not perfectly spherical.
For me, a Pelletgage is more effective. While I am not sorting ammo for competitive shooting, I find it does make a difference with old guns, even when plinking.
StarboardRower
StarboardRower,
Exactly right!
But in Big Bores knowing the exact dimensions of the bore after slugging it is the holy grail the foundational step of finding accuracy. Even though bore sizes are typically advertised they do in fact vary enough that knowing a particular barrels true bore dimension(s) is crucial. A Pelletgage modification may be needed to make it capable of doing what i propose efficiently.
May also be true for how you use it!
shootski
Shootski,
I don’t know how to slug a bore. But you have piqued my interest!
Is this something I should just Google? Methinks we have stumbled on a new topic for the blog!
StarboardRower
StarboardRower,
Sorry it took so long to get back to you on Slugging an airgun barrel. Last night was perfect for paddling the gorgeous gorge above the Key Bridge not to downplay how stunning the National Mall always is from a kayak. But last night a sliver of Moon set shortly after end of Civil Twilight right after an equally spectacular Sunset. Enough with the excuses and on to the easy-peasy process of slugging an airgun bore.
First: If you can remove the barrel it helps with most airguns.
You need a slightly larger than bore bullet made with dead soft lead. A Lubricant (Balistol, Pellgunoil and many others will work) A dowl or cleaning rod that is under bore size and long enough. Depending on your specific instance you may need a crown/muzzle protector. You need an appropriate hammer to tap the bullet through the bore.
You need a MICROMETER (Do NOT try to do this with a Caliper) or as we are proposing a Pelletgage. We need accuracy to 10 thousandths (it will be interesting to see how the Pelletgage may change the degree of measurement accuracy required)
it may prove to be less because the measurements take into account concentricity in one go. With the Micrometer there is a tool use skill-set that is necessary to get an acceptable degree of accuracy; especially with the softness of the bullet used as the Slug. Lubricate the bore with a Lubricant wetted patch as well as the bullet you are using for the slugging. Tap the bullet through the bore from breech end of the barrel to the muzzle. If you are using a Micrometer you will need to rotate the slug and get a minimum of three good measurements; four is better and six…well you know.
All that may be eliminated if the Pelletgage can be modified (if needed) to work with a bullet.
The issue i see is the depth being to shallow since pellet heads are all it was though necessary to measure; skirts being blown (Obturate) out to groove dimension by the airblast in most if not all airguns. Bullets (slugs) don’t Obturate in our airguns, they MIGHT swage if we pick the right bullet diameter, so we need to size them to the bore groove diameter plus some fraction.
I know Tom has a recommendation for Big Bores but for the small calibers i think it needs to be much less, on the order of one or two tenthousandths.
Educational Opportunity: https://www.mathgoodies.com/lessons/decimals/read_write for those that need a brush up!
I believe the smaller the airgun barrel’s bore the more it needs to be UNIFORM in dimension to include concentricity from breech to muzzle, in order to shoot bullets (slugs) at least as well as the twist and MV (Muzzle Velocity) will allow.
If i keep going B.B. will turn this into a Blog!
HTH,
shootski
B.B.,
as Ridge Runner said, it’s not a true semi auto, but rather a double action revolver type action. Why can’t there be more true semi auto guns. One that the trigger isn’t hard to pull. Is it lawyers? I still enjoy my Daisy 200 semi auto pistol, even though it too might not be a true semi also.
Doc
Shootski
So what do you do with all the pellets that don’t work when you sort with the pellet gage?
Send them my way.
Gunfun1,
I don’t have the Pelletgage in hand yet; Jerry Couples hasn’t found a way to have the USPS to do a drone delivery, ;^)
As far as rejected LEAD pellets or bullets they go into the POT at their first opportunity to be cast as .575 Ball or other Big Bore bullets (slugs for you airgun only people) so NO I won’t be sending you any!
:^)
shootski
Maybe Sig still makes air rifles because they need a business ‘write-off’?
Wingnut6799,
They only license other folks to use the SIG Brand currently. The SSG ASP20 was their only in-house built airgun to the best of my knowledge.
So far I think they make enough money of those licenses that? they aren’t going to be written off. I suspect that all the money they spent on design, development, and tooling up for the SSG ASP20 BreakBarrel project was written off.
It really is SAD that the SSG ASP20 isn’t going to see the full arc of development. From the quality and shootability of the .22 and .177 that this Early Dark Sider has found it IS a real LOSS to the airgun community. If I can shoot them fairly well then almost anyone could have!
Too bad my one Mega Millions lottery ticket didn’t win yesterday! I would have made SIG USA an offer they might not have refused!
shootski
Hello shootski,
When the SSG AP2o came out I was deligted to see Sif get into the airgun market.
It was a bit more than I wanted to pay for a springer so I didn’t bite. I also had enough
brake barrels to satisfy my appetite.
I whole hardly agree with you that it was a loss to the airgun community Sig didn’t make it.
Keep playing those numbers and if it’s in the cards maybe Sig will take your offer.
Matt
We could keep fingers crossed the Japanese come up with an even better version of the ASP20 – including making spare parts available. No harm dreaming. Happy and peaceful Sunday to all.
B.B.
It just occurred to me that it would be useful if you could make a day’s blog regarding the different models of the Diana brand. Just model number and some words (and numbers) to know their use/potential. Thanks in advance for considering.
Bill,
That would indeed be a big one!
BB
Bill,
Wonderful idea.
Bill,
Maybe, at the end of the piece, we, readers, can share what we wish Diana would do / sell in the future. Diana has always been very special for me.
Fish
Unless it already is in the Blue Book, which I don’t have (shame on me), I think it would be useful to have a chart showing the other makes and models of Diana’s vintage airguns.
Hi everybody, Happy Weekend to you all. Question for you sproinger fans: Diana 35 vs HW 35 in .177?
Roaming Greco
It seems that here in Europe/Greece this epitome is not easily available, so this is why I asked Tom’s help.
By the way I would really like to know everyone’s opinions about the HW35, especially the E version. I love the look but only if it fills the niche of shooting with open sights up to 20 yards for pest control.
Bill,
It does that, and does it well. I like the HW 50 more, but that is just me…
-Y
Yogi
It’s not just you. The HW50 is lighter, handier, simpler to use, much cheaper and in the same power level. It’s the looks of the HW35 E that puts my credit cards in danger.
BB,
Looks like WordPress believes it’s still the weekend.
Siraniko
B.B.
I guess WordPress forgot to wind their clock!
-Y