The Benjamin Disco Double made by Lloyd Sikes.
This report covers:
- Cleaned the bore
- The test
- First group
- Group two
- Group three
- What have we learned?
- Last report
- Summary
Today we do a second accuracy test of the .22-caliber Benjamin Disco Double at 25 yards, and I will do something different, as well.
Cleaned the bore
Before starting the test I cleaned the barrel with Butch’s Bore Shine and dried it until the patches came out clean. It wasn’t very dirty to begin with. But what I’m doing today requires starting with a clean barrel.
The test
I decided to shoot three groups of 10 shots using the same pellet. That way we can see whether seasoning the bore has any effect. That’s the different thing I mentioned at the start. I shot off a sandbag rest from 25 yards.
Since the rifle was already hitting in the black in the last test at 25 yards I didn’t think there was any need to sight in. As long as the scope was still zeroed, the groups should still be somewhere close to the center of the bull.
I will say this—the thicker reticle lines of the UTG 10X44 SWAT scope that’s on the rifle makes shooting at 25 yards easy. I can see the reticle on the target without the need for illumination!
The pellet I selected was the 18.1-grain JTS Dead Center dome. There is no historical data on this pellet in this rifle, so everything we learn today will be new information. I do know that this pellet is a premium one, and the fact that I have many of them helped me make the decision.
First group
My first shot hit the target at the lower right side of the black bull. Since I didn’t know how this pellet performed in this rifle I had to assume that was where it wanted to go, But on the fourth shot a pellet hit very low and outside the bull. It was away from where the first three pellets had hit. What was wrong?
Oh no! I forgot to fill the rifle before starting to shoot! Well, I accepted this as an opportunity to see what happens when I shoot the Disco Double outside the power curve. And what happened was exactly what was expected. The group is vertical with the final shots at the bottom right. The rifle put Ten 18.1-grain JTS Dead Center domes into 0.96 inches between centers at 25 yards.
Ten JTS 18.1-grain Dead Center domes made a 25-yard group that measures 0.96-inches between centers.
After shooting this group I filled the Disco Double to 2000 psi and returned to the bench for the second group.
Group two
The first pellet of group two hit very close to the center of the bull, so the point of impact did change with a full reservoir. That’s good to know. And all the pellets stayed together, more or less. The straggler that’s low and to the right was the second shot. There was no reason for it to go where it did, but it didn’t enlarge the group.
The second group of ten measures 0.623-inches between centers. It’s much closer to what was expected from the rifle and pellet.
The Disco Double put ten JTS Dead Center pellets into 0.623-inches at 25 yards.
Group three
This will be the telling group. If conditioning the bore with a pellet is valid we should see a significant reduction in group size.
This time the Disco Double put ten pellets into a 0.592-inch group at 25 yards. That’s so close to the previous group that I have to say the difference isn’t significant. It’s true there were no fliers, so perhaps that’s an improvement, but size-wise this group isn’t significantly smaller.
Ten JTS Dead Center pellets are in a 0.592-inch group at 25 yards.
What have we learned?
First we can’t say that today’s test proved anything about bore conditioning. The last group was the smallest, but by too little to be conclusive. And the bore may have been conditioned during group two, so there is no more improvement to see.
Next we can say that The Disco Double probably doesn’t perform its best with 18.1-grain JTS Dead Center pellets. It does well, but probably not its absolute best. In Part Three this rifle shot ten H&N Baracuda 15s into a 0.559-inch group. I would have used that pellet today but I seem to be out of them.
The third thing that was demonstrated on the first group is that when the Disco Double goes off the power curve the group size increases dramatically.
Last report
This will be my final report on the Disco Double unless something new and wonderful comes along. With only three reports per week starting next Monday I won’t be able to explore airguns to the depths I have in the past. Sorry.
Summary
The Benjamin Disco Double that Lloyd Sykes created is a novel approach to a lower-pressure air rifle. It gets just over 20 shots on a 2000 psi fill, making it an ideal rifle to fill with a hand pump. Lloyd added a trigger assembly from a Benjamin Marauder, so the trigger is spectacular.
The Disco Double is an air rifle that could easily be produced today. It won’t develop leaks like the higher-pressure rifles seem to, yet it still pushes pellets out at a reasonable velocity. I think airgun developers have taken their eyes off this kind of potential by focusing on what the market seems to want, and since they have to make a profit to survive I can’t blame them. But always know that things like the Disco Double remain a possibility.
Tom,
Looks like the idea of seasoning pellets to the bore will have to be put to rest unless somebody wants to perform a long term test to prove it otherwise.
Siraniko
BB,
The Disco Double seems to be just what it was meant to be, a Discovery but more so. Same rifle, same easy fill but more shots. It kind of makes me wonder why they (Crosman) have never tried to replicate the results that you’ve shown. (Instead of resorting to fill pressure over 2,000 psi)
And I have a request for when you go to three reports a week. Please remember to throw a few “history of” reports in, every once in a while. Airgun history is a favorite, but now you can throw in a little other history, as well. Variety should be more fun for you (and I don’t think that it will be bad for us, either.)
Thank you.
Bill
Bill,
I like the history reports, too. I’ll still do some.
BB
B.B.
Is 20 pellets enough to season the bore? I have heard that it takes 50-60 pellets to do that…
-Yogi
There was some interest shown and a request for my impressions for this rifle, so here’s some early “returns”.In the owner’s manual for the Barra 250z, the instructions indicate that the owner should clean the barrel before using it for the first time and every so often afterwards (every 1000 shots if I remember correctly). I had shot many pellets before I decided to clean the barrel. I was a little surprised at how dirty it was. I ended up cleaning it twice with J-B non-embedding bore cleaning compound. I only had one type of pellet to shoot, but I think the point of impact might have even changed a little bit after the cleaning. The jury is still out on those Barra Clyde pellets as I am still learning this rifle how it likes to be shot. Then, I received some .249 caliber, 29.5 grain NSA slugs yesterday. They seem to do well in this rifle (5-shots into a .063” center to center group, resting on a bag, at 10-meters). I think this will become one of my favorite rifles to shoot (especially at longer distances). It looks cool, the trigger feels pretty good to me at the factory settings (I measured 2lbs-12oz, 2lbs-9oz, and 2lbs-10oz). I currently have the scout scope with a peep sight installed on this rifle. The rail isn’t quite long enough for this setup to work properly (due to the longer eye relief of the scope). But I seem to be doing okay with it anyway. The fill port and gauges have been working flawlessly so far. There is a lot to like about this rifle.
BB,
I unfortunately have to agree with you that the reason TCFKAC abandoned this air rifle and the Maximus was they came to believe like other airgun companies that high air pressures, high shot counts and multilple shots per load is what their customers really wanted. The profit margin is also larger for these types than for the “low” pressure single shots.
This is why TCFKAC stopped making the Discovery and Maximus. I do give them credit, likely mostly due to Ed Schultz, that they took the brave step backwards and came out with the 3622 before they went belly up. I dream of a 3677, but now that they have been bought out, I do not believe such will happen. I guess I will have to keep my eyes peeled for a .177 Discovery or Maximus.
Will keep eyes peeled on your behalf as well, RR. You could get your hands on a 3622 then customize it to your liking – you’re capable of doing that. Your friend FM, not so much.
FM,
I am thinking of doing such. If my garage was built, I would most definitely do such.
I have seen a .177 Fortitude for sale. Though it is not a Max, it is close.
Just a little off topic, OK, it is waaay off topic today. I just came from HAM and was looking through the new Umarex catalog and noticed that Umarex is intending to sell .177 AND .22 airgun darts in the near future.
RidgeRunner,
The Hard Air Magazine (HAM) piece on the growth of .177 BOOLIT (slug) choices was interesting to me as well. Although it has been a few years since i entered all three of the elements of the PA sub MOA Contest: https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/?s=PA+SUB+MOA+CONTEST
shooting .177 10.3 grain 1st generation JSB KnockOut Slugs with my .177 SIG ASP20.
At least folks are finally, two or more years on, waking up to shooting something beside .177 diabolo pellets accurately out to 100+ is possible.
shootski
FM was pleasantly surprised how his .22 Maximus – Hunter model – did with .218 Nielsen “slugs,” so will have to try them in .177 with the Max in that caliber.
FawltyManuel,
IF the .177 caliber barrel is choked it will probably not be as accurate as the .22 caliber.
Although, choked is choked, in the different calibers it can mean large percentage differences in swaging in the smaller bores.
Hope it isn’t or works even if it is. The BOOLITS (slugs) will certainly retain more energy out to greater range Iguana targets ;^)
shootski
Thanks for that observation, shootski. Do not believe that barrel is choked but in any case, “we” shall find out…of course, have to get hold of some of those “boolits” first. 🙂
shootski,
I just finished reading that article. I am most interested in testing the .177 and .22 “slugs” that are available. Now I will have to get something with enough “umph” in those calibers.
RidgeRunner,
It takes a bit of juice but not ridiculous amounts.
shootski
shootski,
Most of my .177 air rifles shoot only about 6 FPE. I might have some .22 air rifles with enough juice, but it will be close. For me, it is not likely worth getting a little juice. It does not take much to kill feral soda cans and spinners.
I do have some bigger stuff, but I am already talking with NSA and Mr. Hollowpoint for those.
RidgeRunner,
I just have issues with this phrase: That’s the way we have always done it.
The world of adult airguns just has too much of that kind of baggage.
I have a Benjamin Discovery in that IIRC is #20 something. It was the first, and only, sporting PCP in .177 caliber that i own. The barrel is no doubt choked and i am thinking of getting an unchoked barrel for it; i will keep the original barrel in reserve since it is a good barrel for pellets. As you know, Benjamin and most Crosman barrels are so easy to swap as well as do caliber changes in the minor bores.
If you find a good used Discovery (especially in the Early Walnut furniture) at a great price and it is .177 caliber are you going to not make the deal? If so shoot me an email please.
shootski
shootski,
You may rest assured that I am very likely to purchase an early walnut stocked Discovery if I should run across one. No matter the price.
I would not be afraid of buying a Maximus either.
You just might wish to contact Sub MOA concerning a new barrel for yours.
RidgeRunner,
On the Sub MOA barrel that is a possibility as well as a LW (or other custom barrelmaker) Slug barrel. I could also buy a bunch of Crosman barrels and sort them by accuracy.
The TP problem with the BOOLIT (slug) nose and Ogive would need to be addressed as well; perhaps by angling the port toward the muzzle and having it be an oval or a double port.
shootski
shootski,
If they are done right, no problemo. If not, they are junk.
RidgeRunner,
On the Sub MOA barrels/blanks i had hoped the time since introduction, almost one year ago, until now would have been enough to determine IF their cost to benefit would be obvious. Sadly that is not the case with all the noise currently circulating on the internet and the two month long silence by the company on what they are doing or planning to do about the rumors or facts.
So for now i’m going to keep shooting my Benjamin Discovery with a pretty good barrel for BOOLITS (Slugs) and pellets. I may need to do a detailed inspection of the loading area give more thought to a temporary or permanent fix of the KnockOut .177 caliber BOOLIT loading issues i have experienced.
i hope Sub MOA cleans up their issues soon.
shootski
shootski,
I was unaware of issues with Sub MOA.
As for LW, they have been making barrels for quite some time for many companies, though they may need to be machined to fit a particular air rifle/firearm.
My personal experience with the Maximus is it seemed to be in need of an internal chamfer to the breech end of the barrel to allow easier loading. It may also have needed a slight internal chamfering or deburring to the transfer port. Sadly for myself, I have allowed FM to become the new owner of it.
As for shooting “slugs” from it, I have never done such. I would like to have a .177 PCP with enough power to give such a try, but in truth I have no need to do such. Time and again it has been shown that “slugs” are not as accurate as pellets, though the accuracy of such is improving. I do own a .457 Texan LSS should the need arise for me to take large game, but the low powered .177 air rifles I have on hand are very accurate and quite powerful enough to kill feral soda cans at twenty-five or more yards, should I need to do so.
If I should need to kill feral soda cans, or small game for that matter, at longer ranges, I have some very accurate .22 PCP air rifles that are quite capable of doing such.
Recently, I have acquired a few airguns of various calbibers to play with some, but these need to end up in someone else’s hands before too long. There are a few I will end up passing on to my grandson, but there are quite a few that need to find different homes. I have waaaay too many airguns and not the time to shoot them all.
BB
Just guessing that long term bore seasoning makes only slight improvement if any.
Any idea when your next video will publish? I signed up for it or I think I did.
Deck
Deck,
I hope to get one out next week.
BB
RidgeRunner,
Got out this afternoon with the .177 Benjamin Discovery with a SIG ASP WHISKEY3 scope on top for a pellet vs BOOLITS (slug) comparison shoot.
I used some AA Heavy Field Target 10.3 grain pellets and some 1st generation JSB 10.3 grain KnockOut Slugs for the grudge match. I set up to shoot Off Hand at 50′ (15.24 Meters/16.67 Yards) using a NRA 50′ target. The conditions were Wind NW 17 G 30 mph/28 G 48 kph which gave me some fairly hefty quartering tailwinds. The temperature was 48°F Relative Humidity was 42%, Pressure at 30.14 in./1021.5 mb., fast moving broken clouds causing lots of light changes; obviously ideal conditions for a shoot off.
I shot the 10 AA pellets first and they were low on and below the Bull but not worth adjusting the scope for since they are printing well. Next i shot the KnockOuts which moved a little but not enough to cause problems.
The results somewhat surprised me: the AA group was 1.5 inches/38.1 mm CTC and the KnockOuts were into 0.77 inches/19.56 mm CTC. I could have declared the upper left KnockOut but this was just a try to see how the Discovery’s barrel felt about being fed BOOLITS (slugs) although the barrel printed a respectable group; the Transfer Port (TP) does not like to be fed the BOOLITS (slugs) at all. I had to carefully twist the rifle upside-down and push the bolt closed to not have them misfeed; I have not had problems with any diabolo pellet regardless of head shape.
KnockOut group
I need to figure out how to load multiple images!
shootski
shootski,
To upload multiple images make a collage of the images and save as one single image then you can post it as one image consisting of several images
Siraniko
Siraniko,
Thank you.
I had done that in the past but keep looking at the “Choose Files” box at the bottom of the Reply format and forget that it should be Singular since IT doesn’t let you load more than one file.
shootski