Air Arms Shamal: Part 1

by Tom Gaylord, a.k.a. B.B. Pelletier

Shamal
Air Arms Shamal is an attractive PCP. It was Air Arms’ first precharged rifle.

This report covers:

• The story of my Shamal.
• Description of the rifle.
• Performance.
• Trigger.
• Old versus new.

“Sadly, my Shamal went away. I know the man who owns it and he still treasures it to this day. If I still had it, I probably would not allow it to get away from me a second time. It was proof that you don’t always need a new air rifle to have a good one.”

Those were the last words I wrote about my Air Arms Shamal in the April 8, 2009, report I wrote on the old blog. I wrote that report for blog reader Kevin, who is still a reader and one of the most knowledgeable contributors to this blog. He asked what was the quietest .22 PCP I ever heard, and this rifle was my answer.

I did get rid of the Shamal many years ago, along with many other airguns and firearms that I enjoyed. I never thought I would ever see any of them again, but my Beeman R1 and Whiscombe JW 75 came back years ago — and this year the Shamal has returned. The gentleman who sold it back to me charged just what he had paid for it over a decade ago, so it was a good deal on top of a welcome homecoming.

The Shamal wasn’t the first PCP I ever owned — I think it was probably the second. I remember receiving it and discovering to my utter surprise that the rifle shot very slow with a fresh 3,000 psi fill. So, I recorded the velocity of each of the first 66 shots and learned that the rifle didn’t really come up to its power band until somewhere between shots 29 and 38, depending on how tight I wanted the power curve to be.

That exercise was the first time I used a chronograph as a diagnostic tool. I’d used one to gather data for my book about the Beeman R1, but this time I was evaluating the health and performance of a rifle whose background was entirely unknown to me. Without the chrono, I would have been lost.

The optimum fill pressure of this rifle was 2,600 psi — not the 3,000 psi I’d thought. Years later, I would use that experience when talking with customers who complained that their AirForce Condors were somehow defective because they didn’t get their top-rated velocities at 3,000 psi. “What does it matter,” I would say, “if your Condor starts out with a 2,700 psi fill? All that matters is that it gets the top power and 20 good shots on a fill?” — which they were getting in every case.

“Yes,” they countered, “but I bought a rifle that is supposed to take a 3,000 psi fill. I want to get my money’s worth!”

They were getting the best velocity that Condors ever got, and they were getting the advertised number of shots per fill; but because the number on the pressure gauge wasn’t what they expected it to be, they were dissatisfied. I wonder what they would say if they knew their car’s gas gauge was off…even though they’re getting the promised mpg and advertised speed?

That Shamal experience prepared me for a number of future experiences with PCPs. It was a good start for me. More than that, it was a real beauty that I can now share with you.

Description
The Shamal was Air Arms’ first attempt at a precharged pneumatic air rifle. It’s a sporting design, and the one we are examining today is in .22 caliber. Back in those days, manufacturers used to write the standard working pressure (SWP) on the side of the receiver so you would know what it was even without a manual. Manuals back then were single sheets of paper written on one side, only. This rifle oddly does not have the working pressure marked on it anywhere; so without a chronograph, you’re lost.

Shamal receiver
The aluminum receiver has a high polish and a deep black finish. Nowhere on the rifle is the standard working pressure noted, though that was typical for UK PCPs of this era.

The rifle cocks by turning a knurled bolt knob and pulling it back to cock the hammer spring. The bolt will open a considerable distance before the spring starts to compress, so you have to pull the bolt back quite far to cock the action.

The rifle weighs 8 lbs., 4 oz. without a scope. The stock is thick at every point, so the resulting feeling is that the gun is big and heavy. It measures 40-3/4 inches overall, which is short for a rifle, but the barrel is a full 23 inches, so nothing is lost as far as velocity goes. The airgun falls into the nebulous category of being long for a carbine but short for a rifle.

No doubt you’ve noticed that the stock is figured walnut. It features an oil finish that improves with a light rubdown of Ballistol. The holographic curl grain runs the entire length of the stock, though it’s hard to see in some places. There are 4 checkered panels — 1 on either side of the forearm and 1 on either side of the pistol grip. The pistol grip has a slight palm swell on the right side. When coupled with the high, sculpted cheekpiece, that makes this rifle for right-handed shooters, only. A thick ventilated rubber buttpad adds some length to the overall pull that measures 14-1/2 inches.

[Special note: Pyramyd Air is now stocking Ballistol in 16-oz. and 4-oz. non-aerosol cans. I use these to fill plastic spray bottles that I keep in several places. Buying it in bulk lowers the price. The link I gave takes you to the new cans.]

The metal parts of the rifle are finished commensurate with the wood, but the finish is not even. There are steel parts (barrel, part of the receiver tube, various bands, etc.) that are blued steel with an average bluing, and there are aluminum parts (receiver and reservoir tube) that are highly-polished with a deep black finish. The look is attractive, but not uniform.

The barrel is not free-floated. A forward band connects it tightly to the reservoir. That might cause vertical walking of the pellets as the pressure drops, so that’s something I’ll watch for.

The gun is filled at the front, under the muzzle. In the days when the Shamal was new, there were no quick-disconnects for any precharged airguns. Each gun had its own proprietary hose with whatever connection thread pattern the makers thought was good. When you bought a gun in those days, it was important to also buy a fill device that you knew for certain would fit. I had such a fill device when I owned the rifle the first time, but the gentleman who sold it back to me asked if he could keep it since it fit another precharged airgun he owns.

He gave me an adapter Dennis Quackenbush made that threads into the rifle’s fill port and has a male Foster quick-disconnect coupling on the other end. With this adapter installed, the rifle can easily be filled by a number of fill devices because Foster fittings have become the PCP fittings of choice over the past 10 years. I left the old fill hose and clamp with the previous owner and screwed in the Quackenbush adapter to the fill port. It works perfectly, and I’ll leave it on the rifle all the time.

With the adapter installed, it’s impossible to put the elaborate Air Arms muzzle cap back on the rifle. While it finishes the look of the gun, it had to be completely removed to attach the old-style fill hose coupling anyway, so I’ll just leave it off the gun.

Shamal muzzle cap
The muzzle cap (bottom) had to be removed every time to attach the original fill hose, but now I just leave the Quackenbush adapter permanently installed.

Back in those days, precharged airguns didn’t have pressure gauges built in. You had to keep track of the number of shots fired and know when to fill your gun. I’m used to doing that, and it doesn’t bother me.

Performance
Usually, I have the manufacture’s literature to go by or I know nothing about the gun at this point in the testing process, but I’ve owned this rifle before and know what it was doing then. In the 1998 timeframe, this rifle was able to produce about 20 foot-pounds with .22-caliber Crosman Premier pellets. The average velocity it got back then was somewhere in the 790 f.p.s. range, which gives a muzzle energy of 19.82 foot-pounds. A heavier pellet might raise that by a couple foot-pounds, but this is a 20 foot-pound airgun. In those days, that was considered very respectable, but today it seems rather weak. We’ve seen my Disco Double deliver the same pellet about 50 f.p.s. faster, on average, which translates to a muzzle energy of 22.4 foot-pounds.

Trigger
The trigger is adjustable, though I’ve never experimented with it to discover how it works. I’ll do that for the next report and give you the particulars.

It’s set up very nice as it is, and I saw no reason to change it in the past. But it brings up an interesting observation.

The old against the new
Now that the Shamal is back, I’ll be comparing it to the Disco Double I recently reviewed for you. The power is about the same, and both rifles are single-shot .22s. The Disco Double has the better trigger, but who can say how the rest of the test will compare?

157 Responses to “Air Arms Shamal: Part 1”

  • Mitchell in Dayton Says:

    Glad to see you reunited with a long “lost” rifle. We’ve all had a moment of weakness or financial crisis and sold something we once held near and dear, convinced ourselves we could always get another or that it wasn’t that great to begin with, and regretted it ever since. For me, that rifle happens to be an RWS Model 54 in .177. I bought it sometime in 2004 or so about a year and a half after my first real serious foray into precision airguns. It was a refurbished model I got a really good deal on, but it appeared to have little to no wear on it at all. I had dreams of mounting a beautiful piece of glass with a way too large sidewheel hanging off the side and dropping targets all day at long distances. In reality, it was heavier than I honestly cared for, I don’t even recall that particular rifle being exceptionally accurate with any of the pellets I shot at the time. I honestly thought RWS brand pellets were the greatest pellet known to mankind and didn’t bother myself to try many others to see if the barrel preferred them. I mean hey, RWS made the rifle, so surely their pellets had to be custom tailored for their guns so how could any other be more accurate? haha! Boy how my knowledge and understanding has changed. Despite all of that, I still miss that unwieldy beast of a spring piston gun quite alot. Also, in other news, I picked myself up a new Benjamin Titan NP the other day at a local store. The first one had a barrel that didn’t just suffer from droop, it was literally installed into the breech block at an angle! After exchanging it for another with a straight barrel, I took it home and was shooting one-holers with it at 10 meters in no time! I haven’t got to do a comprehensive pellet gauntlet on it yet, but so far it loves CPLs and CPHPs. The only odd thing is that the first rifle with the crooked barrel shot unusually fast, averaging 990 fps / 17ftlbs with CPLs, and the replacement only does 930 fps / 15 ftlbs which is more in line with what others have reported these guns typically do. Anyhow I’ll cut it off here, hope everyone is well! Take care folks!

  • Slinging Lead Says:

    Edith

    Tom was supposed to wait for his birthday for this one. Please don’t tell me you are going soft on us. Next thing we know, he’ll have a tractor and a motorcycle.

    • Edith Gaylord Says:

      SL,

      Yes, I’m usually pretty strict about these things, but I rethought my decision. The problem was storage. I had no place to store the gun for the next few months. I didn’t feel it was okay to store it in a hard case. I was afraid it might rust. So, I opted to let him have it early.

      There will be no tractors for our postage-stamp-sized plot :-) And a motorcycle? In your dreams!

      Edith

      • /Dave Says:

        The size of the plot matters not,
        when talking tractors and mc’s…. :-)

        • Reb Says:

          The older Cub Cadets are awesome! They can do almost anything a full size tractor can,with graders, plows, mower decks harrows wheel weights etc., and when outfitted with hydraulics every thing can be manipulated extreme easily with the pull or push of a joystick! My Stepfather bought 2 of these after buying 2 empty lots in Elwood Ks back in ’85. The only piece of equipment we had to rent to complete improvements to this property was a Ditch Witch with a 6′ trencher which was required to meet city code’s requirement that all plumbing be at least 4′ deep. After I went into the USAF they moved to Lindale Tx. and worked the Twisted Pines Ranch outta 4 acres of East Texas Red Dirt, all went fine until he suffered from multiple strokes in ’97-RIP Arthur Duane Taylor! In regards to motorcycles, only shooting can come close to being as therapeutic to “Gettin’ your head in the wind”!
          Life’s short so I ask you, why not?

          Reb

      • Reb Says:

        Wise decision Edith,I severely rusted 2 guns by keeping them outta sight for 2 weeks in one of these hard cases! I wonder where one might obtain enough desiccant to avoid this nightmare?
        Just answered my own question and feel it would be a service to share the info here. Maybe it’ll come in handy for his Christmas presents! ;) http://www.agmcontainer.com/generaldesiccants

        • Reb Says:

          You’re welcome B.B.!

          Reb

        • B.B. Pelletier Says:

          Reb,

          We have discussed this in the past. Open cell foam used in cheap cases is hydroscopic. No amount of dessicant can protect your guns against it.

          B.B.

          • RifledDNA Says:

            There are soft cases that say moisture resistant and what not, but how can we tell what will be a good case if it doesn’t say it has any special capabilities?

            • B.B. Pelletier Says:

              RDNA,

              This is where brand names come in. Plano will never sell you a gun case with open-cell foam. Village Number 2 from Pon Chang Province, on the other hand, stuffs their cases with whatever they can get at the lowest price.

              This is a time to buy the brand.

              B.B.

            • Wulfraed Says:

              Note that a moisture resistant case implies that if moisture can’t get in through the material, it can’t get out either.

          • Reb Says:

            So one must either carve a recess into enough closed cell foam to protect the guns, fit this into a case and still use the desiccant in order to store them inside for a respectable amount of time? Personally I don’t use them even for overnight storage, strictly transport. I need a decent way to keep my guns and ammo/optics and what-not in order right now. I have a buncha leftover hardwood flooring, enough to build a nice wall length rack in my bedroom, just as soon as I can trust my lefty enough to control a saw. It’s really hard to fit 10 guns in a 3 gun rack! Till then I’ll just keep standin ‘em in a safe corner until I run outta corners.
            That’s how I roll.

            Reb

      • Wulfraed Says:

        And a motorcycle? In your dreams!

        Not even if it comes with a sidecar for you?

  • goatboy Says:

    Thank you, thank you, thank you. i thought i was going to have to wait for a while longer until you reviewed your new/old Shamal. But happy days here it is and i am one happy bunny, as I’m looking forward to seeing if there is any noticeable difference between yours and mine. That is apart from the obvious such as mine being .177 and the filler which would allow for a moderator to be fitted with a slimmer dust cap, and seeing as i use mine for hunting to great success it is something I’ve been looking into for a long time now. I also own an .22 AA s410 and that is not a patch on the Shamal, i have to admit it’s the best air rifle i have ever come across.

    By adjusting the hammer spring tension i have got mine up to 16 ft/lb without any drastic variation in FPS between shots, and for me that is plenty for a .177 with more adjustment to go ( though i only did that to see what the adjustment was capable of and usually keep it a 11.6 ft/lb with H&N field trophies which it thrives off). It looked like the serial number on you rifle is 00072, and mine is 00071, though yours could possibly be 00872 seeing as only 1000 were made of this model before the 100 series was introduced.

    I am looking forward to the rest of this report and a big thanks to Edith for letting you have your pride and joy well before your birthday. This rifle dominated the FT field in it’s day and can still hold up to the best of them today. The Shamal is quite a heavy rifle compared to it’s contemporaries but that’s what makes it such an easy rifle to shoot, i could go on but i shall leave that to you.

    TTFN

    Best wishes, wing Commander Sir Nigel Tetlington-Smythe

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Sir Nigel,

      I almost posted the serial number of the gun. It is 672, but the numbers are hand-stamped and the 6 is quite a bit lower than the 72, so it’s difficult to see unless the gun is in your hands.

      I have seen several Shamals online and all of them have the longer muzzle brake or silencer. Mine seems to be the anomaly.

      I wasn’t aware there were only 1,000 Shamals before the 100-series guns came out. I guess mine is right in the middle of the run. I remember reading Airgun World and dreaming of owning an NJR 100, but never knew I had something that was related.

      B.B.

  • RidgeRunner Says:

    BB,
    You are going to compare this to a Disco? Yeah, yeah, yeah, they are likely equivalent in performance, but how about quality?

    Actually, quality is what is going to kill many of the top airgun manufacturing companies. It killed Webley. I was about to say that it killed BSA, but I think the opposite was true. It slid down below the tolerable threshold.

    Air Arms, from what I see, seems to have continued to climb in quality through the years. Of course, pretty doesn’t always matter when it comes to performance. Just take a look at AirForce. They do use German barrels, though.

    That puzzles me. How can the Germans produce what is probably the best airgun barrel made and sell it at such a low price and everything else made in Germany costs about 40-60% more than it really should? I guess they don’t have to pay for the over engineering.

    I am really looking forward to seeing this old gal strut her stuff.

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      RR,

      Well there is no argument that the Shamal is finished better than the Disco. As far as accuracy goes — we’ll see. The Disco’s trigger, being transplanted from a Marauder, is much better at present, but let’s wait and see what I can do to this one.

      I guess I would say this right now. The Disco Double is light and the Shamal is heavy. That is the major difference between the two rifles.

      B.B.

      • Reb Says:

        B.B. how about that breech? It looks like you could fit half a golf pencil in there! How difficult do you suppose it would be to transform that beauty into a sweet, heavy duty repeater?

        Reb

        • B.B. Pelletier Says:

          Reb,

          You would jack up the gun case, slide this gun out and a repeater in.

          B.B.

          • Reb Says:

            Would you be referring to the butchery of this piece of artwork or am I confused?

            • B.B. Pelletier Says:

              Reb,

              You got it.

              B.B.

              • Reb Says:

                How long of a pellet will fit in there? Do you suppose we could get some more views of this breech design, especially one showing it’s generously large accommodations in a later report?

                Reb

                • B.B. Pelletier Says:

                  Reb,

                  Yes. I almost put a photo of the breech in this part. I will do it in the next.

                  B.B.

                  • Reb Says:

                    It looks like it should easily accommodate Eun Jins,( if that’s how to spell it)and maybe even something longer. @500fps or thereabouts I’m guessing a whole lotta Knockdown Power!

                    Reb

        • RidgeRunner Says:

          To me that is beautiful. Take not of the angled sides allowing ample room for your fingers as you load a pellet. I like it.

          You guys can keep your repeater stuff. Single shot is fine by me.

          • Reb Says:

            RidgeRunner, I liked and never minded having to load my guns one pellet at a time until I had less than two hands to work with. You’ll have to try it some time in order to understand. It’s extremely difficult trying to hold a gun, anti bear trap mechanism, cock and load at the same time with one hand. I love shooting! Lack of access to proper shooting locale is the primary reason for my investment in airguns,price being a close second.I actually prefer single shot guns for target shooting but frustration sets in very quickly with such difficulties at every turn which in-turn has a tendency to raise my blood pressure, which is the #1 suspect for my “incidents”.I’m trying every thing I can come up with to avoid further damage by maintaining control of it right now while still being active in my hobbies/sports. I’ actually considering taking up Golf. Surprisingly my swing has not suffered from my difficulties,I made quite a few very nice 40 yard chip shots with my sand wedge the other day! Once again lack of space is keeping me from trying long range shots, but somehow I’ll eventually solve this problem also.
            At least my mind is staying active!

            Reb

            • RidgeRunner Says:

              I could see why that would be a bit of a hindrance. My wife fell yesterday on her right arm and is now splinted for a time. She is right handed.

              • Reb Says:

                Major bummer, I hope she heals up soon! Did me a flight of stairs today, Tomorrow I’ll practice on closing doors behind me including the fridge.

                Reb

  • twotalon Says:

    Off topic…

    For those with small passenger compartment Chevys….
    How good is your air conditioner ?
    My air is not real impressive, but the heater is great (Camaro) . It has been warm enough a couple days to check out the A/C , but for the size of the space it has to cool it seems pretty weak . Is this normal ? Coming up on the first oil change and wonder if I should bother having them look at it .

    twotalon

    • Robert from Arcade Says:

      TT I can relate. We have (had) , a S-10 Blazer, Chevy Uplander , and Monte Carlo, as well as a full sized Suburban all with air and all had issues, from complete failure to weak performance. I’d have them look at it . As for me we still have the Monte SS T-top, and two old Chevy work trucks (without air) , but for now I’m done with GM products.A Nissan and a Kia live here now. Wonderful ,reliable vehicles! Rant over….

    • Gunfun1 Says:

      TT

      I will talk to my nephew that has that newer SS Camaro and see what he says about his. I will let you know later. He is suppose to be dropping some stuff of for my wife. I will ask him when I see him.

    • Gunfun1 Says:

      TT
      His Camaro blows cold he says.

      And I got a 2012 Colorado. It blows Ice cold and Im a hot blooded person all the time and it will freeze me out.

      • twotalon Says:

        GF1

        Thanks. I can live with it the way it is if I have to . It’s not real bad .

        twotalon

        • Gunfun1 Says:

          TT
          No problem.

          And how have you been doing with that 500. Haven’t heard anything about it in a while.

          You like’n it?

          • twotalon Says:

            GF1

            Has not been very impressive yet. Got some new pellets today, but have not had the chance to try them out. Got all three sizes of Baracuda match, and some 18 gr Exacts. Also got some newer 16 gr Exacts .

            twotalon

            • Gunfun1 Says:

              TT
              Its not holding a tight group? Or are you still messing with the power adjustment and fill pressure?

              The last I remember I think you said you got some starlings with it.

              • twotalon Says:

                GF1

                I have been shooting at full power now. I was plugging starlings close at lower power. Getting a look at what it does cranked up with a little more distance.
                I made a post for you outside this thread also.
                An extra note ..
                I tried some plinking beyond 25 yds and have not seen any tendency so far to be throwing corkscrews . Will be watching for this as I weed my way through the different pellets.

                twotalon

    • Reb Says:

      Two Talon,Waayy too much glass and air volume for GM’s puny AC setup! There are still 2 major issues they have yet to address;1-Auto AC can no longer use the more effective and efficient R12. 2-window tinting is now regulated by MY state and probably yours, as to how dark it can legally pass an inspection. also lighter paint schemes and interior choice tend to hold less heat than darker ones which tend to be more desirable.
      I’m sure there are many more good reasons why you will struggle to keep from breaking a sweat, you might check into upgrading by piggybacking condenser coils or ask for other suggestions from a friendly “open minded”and knowledgeable mechanic but don’t expect this from any dealer, unless you gotta big ole bag o’ money.

      Try not to sweat it buddy and Good Luck!
      Reb

      • twotalon Says:

        Reb

        I will see how things turn out with it. Might try to check the output temperature from the vents to see what it’s doing, then ask the dealer if it’s right.

        twotalon

        • Reb Says:

          I find that leaving windows cracked(Ouch, new car!) & using sunshades is the most effective way to avoid climbing into a 140F degree vehicle.

    • Wulfraed Says:

      For my Jeep Cherokee, the service manual has a somewhat complex test:

      1: A/C on recirculate (max air); temp on coldest; fan maximum
      2: run engine at 1000 RPM with A/C clutch engaged
      3: engine at normal operating temp, doors and windows OPEN
      4: if the A/C clutch is cycling, some steps to disconnect the electronics and jumper to force the compressor to stay on
      5: put thermometer in driver side center A/C vent
      6: run for 5 minutes
      7: record outlet temperature (the formal test also records the compressor outlet pressure)

      If the ambient (garage) temperature is 70degF, the outlet air should be 27-38degF; for ambient 90degF, outlet should be 37-48degF.

      Service manuals ain’t cheap, but I consider them worth while (heck, for one car, I actually had a manual that the service dealer didn’t have yet)

      • Reb Says:

        Wulfraed, how right you are about service manuals not being cheap! The one I received while making multiple inquiries about my Kawasaki KE100 originally cost $100. It was given to me by Paul Zabor himself, who had long since absorbed all it’s knowledge.That thing had so much technical stuff in it! From changing port size and location, which relocates the power band in a 2 stroke, to rebuilding the crankshaft/ rod & main bearings to the transmission intricacies complete with tolerance specifications and anything else necessary to completely rebuild the whole bike, to setting it up as a full out racing bike!I referred to this manual many times in the 3 years I owned,rode maintained,and rebuilt my little pride & joy!sure do miss that bike!

        Reb

        • RifledDNA Says:

          Man, dontchya wish airgun manuals described all the available adjustments and mods and workings like that? Guess that’s where this blog comes in…. :)

    • RidgeRunner Says:

      We had two Blazers years ago, but I do not recall issues with AC. Now as far as Suzuki, the AC has seemed weak in all of them we had and have and the defrost is terrible.

  • kevin Says:

    Clicked on the link to the 2009 report on the Shamal. Amazing mental walk down memory lane. Wacky Wayne, Volvo, BG Farmer, Mr B, Matt61 and others. Nice to see so many of us still enjoy this blog after that many years.

    I’m a sucker for guns like the shamal. Old school fit & finish using wood and metal. Never owned a shamal but did shoulder one when I was in Roanoke years ago. Magnificent gun. If it would have been .22 caliber it would have gone home with me. I did own an air arms s300. Fantastic gun with an odd fill adapter that I replaced with a new air arms tube and adapter. Very accurate gun. Gave it to a friend that in exchange made me a bamboo fly rod that I cherish.

    Sorry………..I’m rambling……this article stimulated some good airgun memories.

    kevin

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Kevin,

      Go on and ramble. Your ramblings inspire me.

      If you come to the Texas Airgun Show on September 6 I will have the Shamal there for you to see and shoot. I’ll also have the $100 OCP and some other old friends.

      B.B.

    • Volvo Says:

      Kevin,

      Still here now and then, just in the shadows.
      Enough comments now without my ramblings.

      • Reb Says:

        Volvo, What? Get your head in the game! We need Your input too! A broader spectrum of viewpoints means more & better ideas, i.e. brainfood & mine’s hungry!

        Reb

  • RifledDNA Says:

    With the muzzle cap off and the feeling of a purely functional rifle, this is like the M14 of pcps, that’s what I thought anyway.

  • David Enoch Says:

    Hi BB,
    Like others, I too have been waiting for this article. Back about 10 years ago when the Arkansas Airgun show was held in Little Rock there was a right handed Shamal with a Beeman 66R scope on it at the show. It was priced really cheap, about $400. I am left handed and I kept picking it up but that roll over cheek piece just wouldn’t work for me. The gun was just beautiful. The stock seemed to be several grades better than yours or mine. I thought about buying it and trying to modify the stock but I just couldn’t bring myself to deface such a beautiful stock. So, I passed on the gun. That has been one of those decisions that has haunted me over the years.

    Jump forward a few years and with a lot of looking I had never seen a left handed Shamal. I asked on the British forums and was told that no factory left handed Shamals were built. A few months ago someone posted a question on the Yellow forum: “What airguns are on your wish list”. I replied listing a reproduction Girandoni, a Giffard C02 rifle, and a left handed Shamal. LD (Larry Duram, the designer of the LD pistol and Simple Simon and USFT Rifles) replied and said that he had a left handed Shamal and that he would sell it to me. I was shocked. I thought I was wishing for something that didn’t exist. I got back to LD quickly and made the deal. Larry said that this rifle was brought to the US by an English competitor for the International Field Target Championship that was held in California in either the late 80s or early 90s. After the competition Larry was able to buy it. Larry used it for his FT gun until he built his Simple Simon. Larry also said that the trigger assembly had been changed out at some point to the NJR100 series trigger assembly. LD had this trigger adjusted at least as nicely as my USFT rifle trigger.

    When I got my left handed Shamal I was really excited. The stock looks a lot like yours with some figure but not nearly as pretty as the one I saw at Little Rock all those years ago. My rifle came with a foster adapter on the end and a cap over the foster. My rifle has about a 2″ long muzzle brake that looks to be bare aluminum shaped similarly to the muzzle brake portion of the muzzle cap you pictured. This gun is pretty quiet when you consider it does not have a silencer on it.

    I had time to sight the rifle in at 30 yards and just shoot a few shots over the chrony before last weeks field target event at Pecan Plantation. On the first lane I shot about a half inch higher than what I had tested at home. That puzzled me until I read your blog today. I did not have time to run a full string of shots over the chronograph before the competition. I now think that running a full string of shots over the chronograph will tell me the answer.

    I enjoyed the blog.

    David Enoch

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      David,

      A left-handed Shamal, eh? You were in the right place at the right time.

      Your mention of the trigger gives me some hope, although mine is just a regular Shamal trigger — whatever that is.

      B.B.

    • Reb Says:

      David, Good luck finding the right spot in your power curve! How did the rest of the show go? Sure did miss being there! This blog and shooting my guns are the primary reason for my relatively short hospitalization periods-Can’t shoot in a hospital &I don’t have a laptop!
      As I said to my nurses,during my first stay, while being transferred from close observation telemetry to rehabilitation~
      “Thank you for accepting me as I was and releasing me as I am!”
      and Thank You B.B. for hosting this wonderful Blog!

      Reb

  • /Dave Says:

    Beautiful old gun, BB! I wonder what the original full probe looked like? Would it be possible to get the Foster fitting off and make the adapter for the Shamal to go on your tank? That would restore the finished ‘ll with the original end cap… I have that setup for my S410E. It has a bigger sized Foster on the gun so I have an adapter to get it down to the smaller one on my hose. I just pop it off to use the smaller one on my Disco and leave it on when shooting the 410.

    /Dave

    • /Dave Says:

      …finished look…… I need to have some words with this phone again. Show it the hammer once more…..

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      /Dave,

      There was no probe. The original fill hose ended in threads that fit the end of the gun. It was screwed together, much the same as all PCPs were in those days.

      B.B.

      • /Dave Says:

        Hmmm… How would the air stay inside while unscrewing the hose? Is it an internal valve like the Schrader on the back of the HW90′s gas ram?

        • B.B. Pelletier Says:

          /Dave,

          The fill device on which that hose is fitted has a bleed valve. You release the air there and the gun is sealed tight.

          Same as any fill device.

          B.B.

  • Gunfun1 Says:

    BB that’s really a nice looking gun.

    Yes I wish I owned one. :)

  • kenholmz Says:

    That is a beautiful rifle, B.B. Sounds as though you and the gentleman had a win-win situation. Now, about that gasoline gauge; I suppose it would matter which way it was off. I had a Ford Escort in which the gas gauge died. I knew about how many miles I was getting on a fill up so I had to watch the odometer. I did miscalculate once. Back to the rifle; if it performs half as good as it looks it is truly a gem. ~Ken

    • Reb Says:

      Ken, I had my Nissan XE pickup down pat! 10 cents per mile! Until it jumped time that is. ;(

      Reb

      • kenholmz Says:

        Reb, it makes it all the harder to lose when it was working so well. I’m sorry for your loss. ~Ken

    • Wulfraed Says:

      In my experience, most fuel gauges are not /linear/…

      The tend to drop faster the lower they are. Or, in a simple example… The “halfway” point on my Jeep (20gal tank) will only take about 8-8.5 gallons (less than half)… Let it drop below 1/4 tank and I might get 16-17 gallons into it (more than 3/4).

      • kenholmz Says:

        Wulfraed, you will get no argument from me. When my fuel gauge hits one quarter I find the nearest gas pump. Actually, I usually start thinking about refueling at the half way mark. ~Ken

  • Reb Says:

    B.B. and Edith,I just submitted a video of the 3 wheeler I had just mentioned in my previous comment. It’s absolutely hilarious! Hope it wasn’t a no-no, please approve this video so the rest of the members can share it’s amusement.

    Reb

  • triniair Says:

    BB
    I was shooting a couple of airguns recently mainly so-call magnum springer’s and PCP with the same ratings. What got my interest were that the PCP were generating more Fpe with the same pellet but over fifty yards would lose as much 60% their energy at fifty yards but the springer’s were on average losing on average 10fpe give or take 3fpe. I live in Trinidad where we are only allowed to own .177mm smooth bores. The guns I’m talking about are HW90,RWS350,UK PATRIOT represent the springer’s. The PCP are Sumatra 2500, hats an at44 pa and AR6.exception the HW100 maintained energy better than the springer’s. from my observation the PCP were generating to much power to maintain the energy down range and were basically useless with the exception of the HW100 which was better than the springer’s. the dealers here are making a killing since average price for magnum springer $5000 PC PS average price $20000 up with accessories. Air rifles are used mainly for hunting here so the air gunners are misled with inflated Fps.

    • Mitchell in Dayton Says:

      Your post really got me curious. Do they really re manufacture all those fine air rifles to be smoothbores? I am utterly shocked they would take a fine air rifle like a Weihrauch and somehow ream out the fine crafted rifling just so they can get around some silly regulation. Limiting one to .177/4.5mm is one thing, but the no rifling thing doesn’t make any sense. What sort of accuracy do you guys get in Trinidad with these smoothbore air rifles? Then again, look at what FX has been able to accomplish with the smooth twist barrels that are mostly smoothbore with a small section of nearly imperceptible light “rifling” that is pressed in from the outside of the barrel. After doing my own research on smooth twist a while back, apparently some folks discovered through testing that the twist rate of the little bit of rifling it does have is very low, something like 1 turn in many FEET. With the diabolo design of the pellets we shoot being drag stabilized to begin with, maybe there is something to be said for stepping back and reexamining the issue of optimum airgun rifling? And as with anything in this world, just when we think we know everything there is to know about certain things, great advances in technology have arisen from abandoning sometimes centuries old accepted ways of doing things, and even trying out counter-intuitive ideas and concepts that seem backwards or wrong. Thanks for writing in, I’d like to know how well you guys enjoy the airgunning hobby while being handicapped without rifling like that. This sounds like the basis for an interesting little side project now that I think about it…. Hmmm….

      • triniair Says:

        The air gun market is huge down hear due to the British heritage near impossibility to get a firearms user licence for shotgun and pistols only. Those fine air rifles got a market in smooth bore place an order with the manufacturer for a couple hundreds its that easy. with regards to rifling vs smooth-bore in air rifles the difference is exaggerated when it comes to accuracy how ever the wound channel from a rifled barrel that’s something .

      • Gunfun1 Says:

        Mitchell
        There is a video of the FX factory tour if you search it. And they have a machine that is about the size of a kitchen table and it is all enclosed so you can’t see how its working. They put the barrel in through the top and hold onto the barrel. And I believe the barrel gets twisted at the muzzle end of the barrel. But I may be wrong. Won’t be the first time and probably not the last time either. :)

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      triniair,

      Velocity sells here in the U.S., too. Because people don’t know that it takes energy and not velocity to kill. Trillions of neutrinos zip through each os us every day, but having no mass the fact they travel at the speed of light (or nearly so) makes them have no affect.

      B.B.

    • Vince Says:

      Keep in mind that the drag on a pellet isn’t proportional to the velocity. It is proportional to the velocity squared. This means that a pellet leaving the muzzle at 1000 fps doesn’t slow down twice as fast as one leaving at 500 fps… it slows down 4 times as fast. That’s why the PCP’s shed so much of their energy compared to springers shooting at a lower velocity.

      • RifledDNA Says:

        If the drag reduces velocity on the pellet relative to its current velocity, then Im assuming it will lose lots at first, then be at its ballistic epitome and maintain better speed, then quickly again lose all steam, right? But my question is why does the powerplant matter? If two pellets are flying at 1000 fps, one from a springer, one from a pcp, how could one be more efficient then the other? Given they’re the same pellet, etc.. once they leave the barrel, where is one pellet gaining any advantage over the other?

      • RifledDNA Says:

        Sorry, I reread what you were saying, and it wasn’t what I thought you were saying. But it says a slower pellet loses less then a faster, I didn’t understand the inclusion mentioning powerplants….

        • Vince Says:

          It’s incidental, but in reply to the triniair’s comment “… that the PCP were generating more Fpe with the same pellet…”

  • twotalon Says:

    GF1

    So far with the 500….

    I have been shooting it in some wind . Not the best way to test accuracy, but really more of a real world situation.

    Best groups have been with 16 gr Exacts at around 1/2 – 3/4 inch at 25 . Metalmags just slightly worse . Polymags a lot worse. FTT 5.53 and FTS are bad too. Tried some CP but was out of air. They had a vertical spread of about 1/4 inch, but strung horizontal about 1 1/2 inch. Have to try them again when I have enough air. This thing likes to run from 200 BAR down to 150.

    The chrono on the 18 gr Exacts and the Baracuda match 5.52……..
    18 gr Exacts…
    The curve has a little bit of a left shift. It indicates that a 30 fps spread would center better with a bit of an overfill, but still not a problem.

    The Baracudas surprised me…
    The curve centers up right with the 200 BAR fill . This is in contrast to what I had with Kodiaks .
    It took 10 shots into the fill for the curve to come up right for a 30 FPS spread. Don’t know if this is because of a difference between the two kinds of pellets, or if this is the result of a little breaking in time on the rifle.

    twotalon

    • Gunfun1 Says:

      TT
      That’s exactly the pressure my .22 cal. FX Monsoon likes to run at. I know two different guns. But I found the JSB 15.89′s and the 18′s to be the best in my gun. The Crosman Premier Heavies is the only other pellet that will group equal to the JSB’s.

      But I would bet the wind ain’t helping you out like you said. And yep kind of hard to get around that variable. What kind of group size are you hoping for?

      Oh and I asked above what was going on before I got down here and realized you already posted down here.

      • Gunfun1 Says:

        TT
        I forgot what happens to the group size if you use the same fill pressure and mess with that power adjustment wheel?

      • twotalon Says:

        GF1

        I am hoping for no worse than 1/4 inch at 25, and no worse than 3/8 at 35 . (calm air)
        Then I want to learn about what I can expect between windy conditions and calm conditions.

        twotalon

        • Gunfun1 Says:

          TT
          Did you try shooting different groups out side with that 200 bar fill pressure and try adjusting the power adjustment wheel or knob or whatever its called?

          • twotalon Says:

            GF1

            Not yet. There are so many ways that I can approach this. I already know that a full fill is where to be. Trying full power right now. Want to see what it looks like with a wide selection of pellets.
            Later when I pick the best 3 or 4 I will play with the power level a bit. Also want to see what pellets will work best for lower power and less noise at around 25 yds and under.
            I am presently working with 25 as a starting point, expecting to see what will hold together farther with the most power I can use.

            twotalon

            • Gunfun1 Says:

              TT
              You mentioned cork screwing. My Monsoon did that to0 if I increased the fill pressure which increases velocity on my gun.

              I thought it was the gun. Maybe its the pellets. Maybe they don’t like going that fast. I noticed it happening if I got above 900 fps. If I kept the pellets at 800 to 850 fps I didn’t see the corkscrewing.

              • twotalon Says:

                GF1

                What kind of curve do you get with the Monsoon ? I am getting a bell at full fill.

                twotalon

                • Gunfun1 Says:

                  TT
                  My gun rises for about 5 shots then gradualy falls off as I take more shots. I get 36 shots on a fill. But my best consistant shots are about 20 shots after the first 5 shots. Thats the shots I know will hit the mark without worry of being high or low from my aim point.

                  • twotalon Says:

                    GF1

                    So yours works best from the peak down. O.K. . I will have to see how this one works . The peak on mine is about center in the 30 fps spread on full power.
                    So much air and so many pellets to use up during the testing stage. And a lot of time too.

                    The next two days are supposed to warm enough with winds around 5 mph , so hopefully I can get the new tins of pellets tested. Playing with the power adjustment comes after . Then distance . Be glad when I get through this. Much less pumping and pellet usage . Then comes the confident killing .

                    Almost forgot….
                    I need to see what temperature change does to the POI . I know it will screw with the fill pressure.

                    twotalon

                    • Gunfun1 Says:

                      TT
                      I thought I should throw this out there at ya.

                      Started seeing my accuraccy slipping today on the Monsoon. I knew right away what it was from previous probllems.

                      The o-ring in the breech that seals the bolt.

                      I thought it felt ok but when I took it out it had a cut in it that followed the diameter.

                      Thought I would let you know.

          • twotalon Says:

            F1

            I will also be watching the groups as I shoot down the fill. I might shoot groups of 5 (giving me 4 groups) to see if there is a best part of the curve to use , and for how many shots.
            I do plan to stretch this out to 50 yds or so for those long starling shots. I need to see where to draw the line for different purposes.

            twotalon

            • Gunfun1 Says:

              TT
              I know sometimes the testing is a pain in the butt. But once you get it figured out it sure is nice when that pellet hits the mark everytime.

  • RifledDNA Says:

    TwoTalon brings up something I was just thinking about and something that probably anyone looking into pcp does, length and consistency of power curves. I wanted to know which high powered precharged will give a long consistent set of full power shots. I would like something that pumps out serious power for hunting, but can run enough shots to not have me pumping every ten minutes if Im plinking…..

    • RifledDNA Says:

      Oh, and can it be as compact as possible? A long winded talonp?

    • RifledDNA Says:

      Anything come like this or just haveto upgrade tank and valve?

      • Gunfun1 Says:

        RDNA
        Most of the PCP guns can have a good power curve as the gun comes from the factory. You just have to learn what it is.

        That’s why you have to mess around with different fill pressures and different types of pellet shapes and weights. And most of the better PCP guns will have adjustments to control how hard the striker will hit the valve head. Like the Marauders. And one more benefit the Marauders have is the set screw in the right side of the air valve. It can be adjusted in or out to control the air flow to the barrel through the transfer port. Kind of like what you did to your break barrel gun when you opened up the transfer port hole. But on the PCP gun it reacts a little different than how it does on your break barrel gun.

        So if a person wants to a PCP can be tuned different ways if you find one like the Marauder rifle that has the adjustments Incorporated into the gun. You can adjust it to be a very powerful gun with less amount of shots. Or you can have it adjusted some where in the middle. Or you can have the power turned down and get a lot of shots at a lower but decent fps.

        So to me PCP’s are a tuners gun. They can accomplish a lot more than other types of guns. And the pump guns like the old Benjamin’s and Crosman guns kind of fall into that category of being tunable but you don’t have the luxury of the transfer port adjustment like the Marauder. But some of the guns like the 1377 you can add the end cap to the back of the gun that will allow you to adjust the striker spring pressure.

        So that’s why I like the PCP guns. They are a tuners dream gun. Or they can be left alone to enjoy shooting them the way they come from the factory. Or as a person progress and wants more from their gun.Then they have the option to turn the gun up.

        Oh yea here is something for ya. Cost for cost the Marauder rifle is the one for the things you get already in the gun compared to others. And look at my Fx Monsoon. Look how much it costs and all I can do with that gun is find the right fill pressure for that gun. It shoots a given fps with a certain pellet at that fill pressure and that’s that. But the gun works. It does what it was designed to do. Shoot semi-auto with a 16 to 18 grn .22 cal. pellet at around 900 fps.

        So just like the spring guns and the nitro piston guns there are options out there. Same with the PCP guns. But when I buy a PCP gun I want to have the option to adjust the striker distance it can travel. I want to be able to adjust the pressure of the spring that moves the striker to hit the air valve. Then I want some kind of adjustment that will control the air flow from the valve to the barrel. Even if I don’t ever adjust the gun. I want them options there.

        And again that’s me and what I want from a PCP gun. other people probably have other ideas that are different from mine.

        • RifledDNA Says:

          That is a great explanation, Im going to check out the maruader pistol, if it has the same adjustments options, it’ll be between that and the talonP for my first pcp, from there it’s game on. In the mean time I think Im going to order a 2240 and breech and barrel, I’ve been playing with this XBG and want a co2 pistol I can really mod out, nice wood grips and a 10″ barrel sounds good. I guess you can replace the breech to run a maruader clip… ooh yeah!

          • Gunfun1 Says:

            RDNA
            The Marauder pistol does have the adjustable striker stroke. And it also has the adjustment for the spring pressure. It doesn’t have the set screw adjustment for the air flow to the transfer port. Some brand name guns have that airflow adjustment. And some don’t. You can still adjust the gun to get different shot counts and velocities with out that transfer port adjustment though.

            And if you get a 2240 and do the breech and barrel. Then add a 1399 stock. Then get you a end cap in the back from Crosman. If I remember right the one from a 2300S will work. I can find the part number and post it later. And guess what when you mess around with that gun and play with the spring pressure adjustment with that new end cap you put on you will be one step closer to knowing how to tune a PCP gun when you get it. And it will have about the same feel in your hands if you get a Marauder pistol. You know the Marauder pistol comes with the 1399 stock don’t you.

            And it helps to have a chrony so you can establish your shot curve. Or you can shoot at lets say 5 different targets and take about five shots at each. TT also mentioned that above. That will show what the poi (point of impact) is doing in relation to the pressure that is in the CO2 cartridge. And remember you don’t have a gage on a CO2 cartridge. So again targets will tell ya a story if you know what to look for. And it is basically the same for a PCP gun.

            So if you take your CO2 pistols you have you can already start seeing what fill pressure does for shot strings and consistency of your velocities and groups that the gun shoots if you look at your targets. Just remember to keep your point of aim at the center of the bullseye and watch to see what your point of impact does as you take your shots and the cartridge empties.

            • Gunfun1 Says:

              RDNA
              Here’s the part number for that adjustable end cap that will work on the 2240.

              Crosman carries it. Here’s the part number. 2300-124

              • Reb Says:

                Gunfun1, Thanks for this info,I’ll eventually take advantage of it on my own build project!The more I study this design the more impatient I become.

                Reb

              • RifledDNA Says:

                Does crosman carry all the barrels and grips and things I see people having on the 2240 or are these all aftermarket jobs? And which way to find the most selection of grips, parts barrels etc. in the cool aftermarket scene? Best place to look? I’ve got the 2240, breech, 49 pack o gas, and a chrony in the cart… :) but I don’t see barrels or anything like that for it on PA.

                • Reb Says:

                  I had to go through the Crosman Custom Shop to get mine with an 18″ barrel, it’s still in my cart so PA still has some time, if ya know what I mean.

                  Reb

                • Gunfun1 Says:

                  RDNA
                  There are tons of mods out there for the Crosman 2240′s, 1377, 1322′s and so on.

                  Most of the things I have done with these guns has been done with mix matching Crosman gun parts using their parts diagrams and parts numbers on their website. Not through the aftermarket.
                  The barrels that I have tryed in the past have came from the custom shop on the Crosman web site. Longer than what is on the pistols from the factory. But not as long as the Discovery barrel. The custom shop barrels did help with the performance of the pistol but not as much as the Discovery barrel.

                  But I have to say this because this is something that really makes those guns work. And it is the Discovery barrel in either the .22 cal. or .177 cal. version. I know a lot of people don’t like that longer barrel on those guns when they are making a rifle out of them using the 1399 stock. But that barrel works out to be the best length for performance.

                  All I can say is try for yourself and let me know what you think about the different barrels. Then you will know for yourself. I’m sure there would be people willing to buy the barrels you don’t like. And if for some reason you get a Disco barrel and don’t like the performance I would be willing to by it from you. ;)

          • Reb Says:

            RDNA,Your plans for your pistol sound suspiciously similar to my plans for my 2400KT, same concept-slightly different gun,although not much different after the HPA conversion I’ll be performing once I want more power.Good Idea! I’m currently considering researching how to build a handmade version of a shoebox compressor to use along with my current shop compressor It’ll definitely be complicated and with such high pressure also very dangerous. If I do decide to, safety would be concern #1. My body’s already been through the wringer &$600 ain’t worth another hospital stay! I got pretty nervous just refilling my fire extinguisher launcher toy to just 150psi without a way to regulate the rate at which it was filling so I have stopped playing with this toy until I run across an inline valve which can be easily manipulated. These things seem to take exceedingly longer and become more difficult, the less money you have to work with!
            Happy building and Good Luck with your project, my friend!

            Reb

            • RifledDNA Says:

              Your definitely justified in being nervous playing around with high pressure anything, like we had said discussing this before, a car tire is only 40 psi or so and they can knock your socks off. The large volume of air probably accounts for the dramatic displacement, but an adapter or such is a lot heavier then a pellet, and be very friendly with an eyeball. Injuries like that are more common than actual explosions and shrapnel… Goggles or shooting glasses are a good idea if experimenting with compressed air, for sure. Be safe buddy and good luck. As far as the 2240 goes, beginning of next week I should have that and a chrony, yeeehaww!!!!

              • Reb Says:

                Congratulations on the “not long from now” acquisition of your new project gun! You’re jumping ahead of me? Unfortunately I am at the mercy of our government,for now, as to funds for “therapeutic equipment”.Once the ball starts rolling I plan to be “swingin’ for the fences”!

                Reb

                • RifledDNA Says:

                  Thanks, I got a lucky break on a job that’s gonna help me get a ton of stuff done, and have a little mad money. Gonna find a barrel, maybe some wood grips, but got everything else in the cart at PA, including a … drumroll…. CHRONY!!!!! Bout time, can’t wait to see what the np is doing.

              • Gunfun1 Says:

                RDNA
                Next week on the 2240 and chrony! Well I know your happy. Now whats in store next? I will be waiting for up dates. :)

          • RidgeRunner Says:

            RDNA,
            For your first PCP, you should not get either the P-Rod or the Talon P. Though both are excellent, you would be better off learning PCPs with the full sized Marauder or the Condor SS. Tinkering with them will help you learn how to balance all the variables involved for optimum performance. Also, the accuracy of these are much better than their shorter siblings, especially at 50 yards or more.

            I do understand the desire for compactness. I am building a Talon SS Carbine. I am planning on buying a raw .25 LW barrel and machining it to 16 inches so I can still have some of the benefits of a longer barrel but still have enough room in the shroud to allow a little baffling so I do not have to wear earplugs. I am planning to either get a Talon P valve and install a 22 CI tank for a higher shot count or make an adapter for my high flow valve.

            Most people who buy a P-Rod or a Talon P usually end up installing longer barrels and shrouds on them unless they already have the longer versions.

        • Reb Says:

          Gunfun,Excellent job! Thank You for that food for thought!

          Reb

    • Wulfraed Says:

      Condor with a Micro-Meter tank used for plinking; though be advised, the tests have shown that the Micro-Meter tank essentially drops in velocity from first shot to last. As I understand the description, the valve body essentially contains a small secondary chamber. The main tank bleeds into the secondary, and when fired, the secondary dumps all its air and the valve closes before the bleed from the main tank can contribute much — so no “power curve” where the valve is being held open while the pellet is still in the barrel.

      • RifledDNA Says:

        I don’t know if its noticeable to lose power with each shot, but I don’t like the idea. Ive been really focused on consistency and would think a purposed INconsistency would drive me insane, like a step backwards. Wouldn’t the changes in propelling pressure promote inaccuracy?

        • twotalon Says:

          RDNA

          Some guns self regulate a flat curve…a long one. My 200T does 60 shots in a flat looking velocity curve. Looks like it has a regulator , but does not. The pressure is running down the whole time, but the valve is staying open longer to supply a larger quantity of air.

          The ones that do NOT do that….
          You can expect velocity variations with ANY gun. A POI change caused by velocity change is going to be there. The question is….how much variation in velocity is going to move the POI too much for you. The farther you shoot, the more the velocity change is going to show up in a POI change. (none of this considering barrel vibration changes ).

          twotalon

        • RidgeRunner Says:

          There is an after market valve stem available for the AF high flow valve that allows you to change the port size. With no insert it is the same as a high flow. With the large insert it drops it into the standard power range and with the small insert it drops it to a little above the micrometer valve in power.

          You can also make a large adjustment in power to the AF rifles by putting an o ring behind the top hat of the valve stem. This will limit the amount the valve will open. By using different thickness o rings you can vary the power output. I have used this method before to tame my Talon SS enough to almost effectively use .177 with it. I was able to slow 16 grain Eun Jins from 1140 FPS to 800 FPS just by putting an o ring on.

          Either of these methods allow you to take a very powerful hunting air rifle and quickly tame it enough for everyday plinking with geegobs of shots and then turn it back into the scourge of the tree rats in seconds.

          • RifledDNA Says:

            Does the talonp not have the top hat oring adjustability?

          • Gunfun1 Says:

            RR
            That was one of the first things I did to my Talon SS was to put a o-ring behind the top hat. Defiantly improved the shot count on my gun.

      • RifledDNA Says:

        The secondary chamber setup sounds just like how co2 actions work,

      • Gunfun1 Says:

        I think the micro meter tank would drive me crazy the way it progressively gets slower with each shot. I hear it is supposed to get like a hundred shots from a fill.

        That means if I have the gun zeroed at a given distance at a full fill. As I would be shooting the poi would be progressively getting lower on the target. After a hundred shots the pellet would sure be striking alot lower than I would like I believe. That was basically the reason I never did get the micro meter tank.

        I think TT has one of those tanks. Maybe he can say if I’m thinking right about the micro meter tanks for the AirForce guns.

        • twotalon Says:

          GF1

          Straight downhill. Plot the chrono strip and you can lay a ruler right along the dots.

          twotalon

        • Wulfraed Says:

          Remember, the Micro-Meter tank is basically meant to be a low power plinker mode, not a competition target/hunting condition.

          On my short testing, the MMT resulted in a ~350fps reduction from the regular Condor tank, translating into about 1/3 the muzzle energy (45ft-lbs down to 15ft-lbs).

          • Gunfun1 Says:

            Wulfraed
            True about plinker mode. It serves its purpose I suppose.

            The micro meter tank kind of acts like a HPA version of how a 12 grm CO2 cartridge acts now that I think about it. And the CO2 cartridge doesn’t quite get as many shots though. But still has the same characteristics as the micro meter tank. A steady down hill shot trajectory.

            • Wulfraed Says:

              You must not be treating your CO2 cartridges kindly… CO2 at a given temperature tends to retain the same pressure even though the proportion of gas to liquid state is changing.

              Okay — fast shooting (which will result in cooling the CO2 cartridge, and thereby reducing the equilibrium pressure) will show a constant drop. But slow shooting should maintain rather flat pressure until the cartridge is down to just gas state.

              • Gunfun1 Says:

                I do tend to abuse my co2.

                Thats why me and co2 dont get along.

                Now give some HPA and will be together forever. ;)

  • RifledDNA Says:

    Does anybody else have a non-blowback umarex co2 bb pistol? The xbg or tdp45? I can’t get the slide off… I watched a video about disassembling the xbg but it was in Spanish and didn’t show what he did. He takes the one screw, has a little trouble, does something, then it pops right off… I can not figure it out. There’s one screw, it won’t budge… HELP!!!!! I can’t mod a gun I want get into….

  • Vince Says:

    Off topic – was at a gun show today, and picked up a rather beat-up Daisy “Buck Jones” model 107. Awful dirty, but the gun still feeds/fires… and the compass works.

    Also found a like-new QB6, which I had been looking for for years.

  • Reb Says:

    Gunfun1, The thread up there ran outta space so I’ll answer you here.No I have never even seen a Eun Jin pellet except online and can only imagine the struggle for accuracy with such a design,that’s why I only mentioned power.I’m looking forward to trying some of the heavier pellets but I’ll probably only go as heavy as a Kodiak or so.Absolutely no income right now! I’m not selling any of my shooting equipment so I guess I’ll have to trust that the Social Security Administration will finally step up & do the right thing instead of their standard procedure.During my last day in the hospital this time I called them to ask for an extension on my denial appeal deadline, when the nice lady on the other end discovered my reason for this was due to being hospitalized due to yet another stroke she assured me that the medical evidence alone should be sufficient, and to just let the system have the time to get the paperwork through the process. My stress level automatically dropped exponentially. I was at the end of my second application when this happened so if they need it it’s already filled out,I just have to send it in as my plan B. A total of 3 weeks of my birth month has been lost due to this nightmare of hospitalization MRI’s,MRA’s CT scans and who knows what else.It took me a week just to be able to read again after my first stay!I’m so wore out, sure can’t wait for things to get better!

    Reb

    • Gunfun1 Says:

      Reb
      As you already know. Velocity and energy means nothing if you can’t hit your target.

    • RidgeRunner Says:

      Reb,
      I didn’t read the blurb above but saw your questioning of the design of the Eun Jin pellet. I have some. The problem is not the design, it is quality control. When you look at these things up close you wonder how anybody can do anything with them. What I have found out with them though is if you slow them down to well under 800 FPS they don’t do half bad.

      Like GF1 said, “What good is 500+FPE if you can’t hit what you are shooting at?”. It doesn’t take much force to kill a tree rat if you hit him in the head.

      Now if H&N would take their Silver Point and make it into a dome…

      • Reb Says:

        I guess I was just kinda suggesting a pellet for scale more than anything else, after that they would be handy, this should justify testing and wouldn’t you also wanna know how much power it was developing if you were already gonna shoot ‘em anyway?

        Reb

  • Annoymous Says:

    Hiya!

    I’m not sure whether this is the right place to go but let’s try anyway.

    I shoot HFT and I have three friends that have Walther’s and I’ve been looking at one for a while now. So I looked on the Walther website and found that the Walther LG400 Anatomic Expert was what I was looking for, BUT, then I looked at the power(7.5 Joules) and converted it to fps(around 575fps) but I want the power somewhere around 785-795?

    Can anyone tell me how to, so to say, order this rifle from Walther and take it out the box and find that the power is where I want it?

    Do I have to specify this in my order or am I looking at the wrong rifle?

    Thanks in advance,

    Sorry if this is in the wrong section,

    Annoymous

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Welcome to the blog!

      You can ask anything at ant time on this blog.

      From what you say, you are looking at Walther’s German website for that rifle. I say that because you have quoted the German legal airgun velocities and power.

      You need a gun that is set up with export power, so look at the Pyramyd Air website.

      The Walther LG400 Anatomic Expert is a 10-meter rifle that isn’t suited to hunter class field target. You would have to do many costly modifications to get it to work.

      Here is the latest field target rifle from Air Arms that is similar to what you want:

      http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Air_Arms_FTP_900_Field_Target_PCP_Air_Rifle/3258

      As you will see, it is very expensive. I suggest you look at the Pyramyd Air website for more suitable rifles.

      http://www.pyramydair.com

      B.B.

    • Edith Gaylord Says:

      Anonymous,

      http://www.pyramydair.com/field-target
      Try the above site. Pyramyd Air’s in-house field target shooter is Tyler Patner, and Tyler worked with the marketing department to assemble these guns, accessories and pellets for field target.

      Edith

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