by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
FWB Sport air rifle
This report covers:
• Crosman Premier lite pellets
• Air Arms Falcon pellets
• H&N Baracuda Match pellets
• JSB Exact Heavy 10.3-grain pellets
• Conclusions
Before I begin, I want to tell you that there is at least one huge surprise coming in 2015. I’m testing an airgun right now, so this isn’t something that’s a one-off being handed to me at the Media Day range for a few causal shots. I’ve already been to the range with this gun 4 times, and it is earth-shattering! It does things other guns in its class cannot dream of doing. I tell you this not to tease — well, perhaps just a little — but also to let you know the world is continuing to spin on its axis, and good things are still happening with airguns.
In fact, I’m going to share a second secret with you later this week. It’s a gun I’m testing that I would have bet money could not be built. That’s coming up later this week.
I had planned to tune the Feinwerkbau Sport air rifle before taking it to the 50-yard range, but the opportunity to shoot came up; and it was such a perfect day that I didn’t want to waste it. The accuracy should be the same with or without the tune, so today’s test should tell all of you what you want to know about the FWB Sport.
Crosman Premier lite pellets
The day was perfect — not a breath of air, and bright sunlight illuminating the targets. I began with Crosman Premier 7.9-grain domes because they had done well at 25 yards. They hit the target low, so I adjusted the scope and brought them up higher; but because I was going to shoot 4 different pellets, I didn’t concern myself with hitting the bullseye. I’m always racing the wind when I shoot outdoors, so I do anything that saves time.
I used the same artillery hold that I used at 25 yards — off hand with the back touching the triggerguard and extreme looseness in the hold. This time, I was rewarded with 10 pellets in a 1.44-inch group. That’s okay, but far from stellar — especially for a calm day. So, I switched pellets for the next group.
At 50 yards, the Sport put 10 Crosman Premier lites into this 1.44-inch group. It’s not centered on the bull, because I was hurrying to finish before the wind picked up.
Air Arms Falcon pellets
The second pellet up was the Falcon dome from Air Arms. These were head size 4.52mm. They had done particularly good at 25 yards, and I thought that might carry over to 50 yards. This time, 10 pellets went into 1.424 inches, which is very close to the previous group. They did hit the paper higher and slightly to the right of where the Premiers landed.
Air Arms Falcons were the most accurate at 25 yards. At 50 yards, they were close to equal to the Premier lites. Ten went into 1.424 inches.
H&N Baracuda Match
Next up were the 10.6-grain H&N Baracuda Match domes. There were 4.50mm. They were a lot slower getting downrange, but they were also more accurate. They may be a good pellet for longer distances in the Sport. Ten of them went into 1.307 inches, which is better than the first 2 pellets — but not by that much. However, they do carry a lot more energy downrange, and that’s what hunters want.
H&N Baracuda Match pellets were a little better, at 1.307 inches for 10. They also moved into the center of the bull. This might be a pellet to use in the Sport.
JSB Exact Heavy 10.3-grain pellets
The last pellet I tested was the 10.3-grain JSB Exact Heavy dome. They had 4.52mm heads and often do well in more powerful springers. The Sport put 10 into 1.311 inches at 50 yards.
JSB Exact Heavies were very close to the Baracudas at 50 yards, putting 10 into 1.311 inches.
Conclusions
Looking at the results, I see that all 4 pellets went into very similarly sized groups. The heavier pellets were slightly tighter than the lighter ones. That shows the Sport is consistent. I doubt that I’ve found the best pellet for the rifle, but I have to say the Sport requires a lot of technique to shoot well at 50 yards. The trigger is good, which helps a lot, but being a breakbarrel means the rifle has to be held as lightly as possible, which can be tiresome.
The rifle still cocks smoother and shoots calmer than before I applied the oil, but I can feel some buzz starting to creep back. Also, that oil continues to run out of the action and down the stock when the rifle is stood on its butt, so care must be taken to keep it off the floor. Maybe oiling isn’t the best thing to do. Maybe a more sophisticated lube tune that involves a disassembly is warranted. We’ll look at that next.
Bb
I did not think that gear oil would work for very long and end up making a mess as it drained from the action, but at least the stock is well sealed from moisture now on the butt end anyway.
I wish you would do a disassembly and tune on this gun as I am curious if it will get rid of the buzz it has that has not seemed to improve much after the first two reports.
How long do we have to wait for this new revelation in air guns you eluded to, one week or two week or more,
Buldawg
BD,
Disassembly and tune comes next.
B.B.
BB
Just what I wanted to hear, still no hint of the time we have to wait for the new air gun you are teasing us with.
BD
BD,
Sure. It will be in the blog on Monday, January 19, 2015.
B.B.
BB
I was hoping it would be before the 15th of January so that I could put it on my birthday list of must haves to the wifey.
BD
I hope it is either a recoilless springer…or a multi pump PCP! Thanks for the sweet agony of waiting! Your a showman if the highest order Sir!
P.S.-man I hope it’s accurate/.25/lightweight/ quiet/ and affordable…because…As it turns out…I like to be spoiled rotten.
BB
That’s what I’m waiting for. Soon as you take it apart you will be able to tell us what you see wrong.
Looking at your results and experience so far with this rifle I am now getting the sense of why there seems to be a lot of comments regarding the cost of this airgun in comparison to its performance. A new gun at that price ought not to require lubrication and tuning straight out of the factory, just cleaning. Especially when compared to what I think has become a gold standard among spring air rifles the Air Arms TX200 Mk III. Feinwerkbau marketing seems to have depended a lot on the cachet of the Feinwerkbau 124 to make their sales. They seem to have forgotten to take a look around themselves and see what the competition are doing. They just concentrated upon the sighs of new airgunners who miss having the Feinwerkbau 124 in the market. Nostalgia may sell, but only to a few. Time will tell if the Feinwerkbau Sport air rifle will last in the market at that price point.
Siraniko
I believe you have hit the nail on the head with your comments concerning the Feiwerkbau Sporter airgun. I think everyone fully expected the Feinwerkbau to perform at least equal to an Air Arms TX200 at 50 meters. I have been one of it’s main cheerleaders from it’s introduction in blog 1, until now. Seeing these four mediocre groups, has given me reason for doubting FWB wanted to build a spring piston sporter that would compete with todays class of stellar airguns. You may also be correct in saying they are merely trying to produce a jazzier 124 model for the masses of FWB fans who were pinning for something from the good old days. Looking at the amount of technical advancements brought out with the Walther LGV series should have given FWB reason for concern about producing a 124 with a new age stock, and nicer rear sights . Lets hope a good look inside the gun shows promise for tighter groups then the ones shown today.
Ciao
Titus
Titus,
I have been playing with the hold as I have shot the gun. But a super-light hold seems to work the best.
I will tune it next and then we will see how well it is made.
B.B.
when you do the disassemble, give a little thought to dry lubricant cereflon spay. no mess. beautiful clean lubrication. its what ive been using and IT WORKS. just let th proppelent evap for 5-10 min and youve got an almost indefinite self cleaning lube.
That’s right. Nice but but double the price of the TX200 for almost double the group sizes. The math is hard to ignore.
Matt61
BB
I think there will always be thoughts about a new gun. I didn’t want to use the word criticism.
The gun is what it is and from what I can tell in the pictures with out holding the gun it is a quality gun.
It has a buzz but at least things ain’t breaking or falling off. But it is a expensive gun.
Seriously how hard is it to fix the buzz in a spring gun. I have been to busy learning how to keep the vibration/noise transfer out of PCP guns. So I would really like to know the correct way. I hear to many stories of how to tune spring guns but they all seem to have different ideas.
And don’t take this as criticism about the artillery hold because I know it does work on most spring and nitro guns. I have to tell about the Weirauch HW50s that I have with the 10.34 JSB’s that you just used for the FWB Sport.
This is the hold I use on it. I grip the gun slightly with my trigger hand with just enough pressure to keep the gun from side movement when I pull the trigger. Then there is as screw in the bottom of the stock a few inches forward of the trigger guard. I set that hole on my open flat rest. Then I take my other hand and lay it a few inches forward of that hole and take my pointing finger and lay it on the stock and barrel and apply a bit of pressure down.
If I don’t do that I will get 1.600″ center to center groups at 50 yards. If I do how I said I will get a avarage of 1.200″ center to center groups. But on a calm, calm day I have got under a inch.
What I’m saying is I think there is more in the FWB Sport than whats showing. I don’t believe my HW50s is fully broken in yet but I think its getting close. It was trying to touch pellets today when I was finishing my shooting session.
I’m betting the Sport will get better in time.
I am certain the FWB will get better over time. One of the things that is hindering it’s performance is that BB does not shoot it almost exclusively. He does not have the time to learn it like you do your HW50S. Also as BB stated, these may not be “the pellet” for this air rifle.
On the other side of that coin is the fact that BB has picked up and shot other sproingers right out of the box and produced as good, if not better groups. Also, he has given this air rifle a lot more attention than he has quite a few others.
The major issue with this air rifle is that it is made by Feinwerkbau and has a Feinwerkbau price tag, but does not have Feinwerkbau quality or Feinwerkbau performance.
Do not get me wrong. I have looked closely at BB’s photos and I can tell you that the construction of this air rifle is second to none. But it is as if the engineers at Feinwerkbau have no real clue about sproingers. It is as if they pulled out all the formulas and their calculators and designed the power plant. Yes, it works great. But the engineers who truly understood sproingers were all dead and gone.
Feinwerkbau left sproingers behind many, many years ago. They have much to relearn if they are going to truly compete. One thing I think they are learning right now is that if you are going to charge extra for your name, it had better live up to that name.
For what this air rifle costs, I can buy a new TX200 MKIII with a drop dead gorgeous walnut stock AND a decent side parallax scope to put on it and it will have a better trigger and better performance right out of the box.
You have an HW50S which has a better trigger than this Feinwerkbau and apparently shoots better than this Feinwerkbau. For the price of this Feinwerkbau, you can buy two of those HW50Ss.
I do apologize if it seems like I am getting hard on your case. I am angry about this whole mess because everyone rants and raves about how great “German Engineering” is, but it isn’t really. It is just more expensive.
Just saying.
RidgeRunner,
I agreed with your saying “I am angry about this whole mess because everyone rants and raves about how great “German Engineering” is, but it isn’t really. It is just more expensive.”
This is why people are willing to give the Germans +5 times more money to manufacture an airgun than would the Chinese. People will complaint that their $100 air rifle from China doesn’t shoot as accurate as a German’s, then they complaint (here) that this very expensive German airgun doesn’t shoot as accurate as they expected. You JUST CAN’T WIN.
Oh there is a difference” But you are right about the price of them.Even the Rollieflex
is made in Hong Kong and the Leica slr Digital is made in China,I am still wary of Chinese
made air guns, but I still would like to have more high end German air guns in my collection.
I have the RWS 48 in .25 which I don’t see listed anymore and the RWS 460 MAGNUM
the P1 and the Beeman 80 the last two for at least 25 years.and last but not least the
Beeman R1 since 1987.
No you can’t win”But that’s what makes life interesting,Thank God for this blog my interest
is now piqued about this earth shattering new air gun,The Magpul has me itching to buy
and now this one too,If I don’t stop buying”I’ll be living under a bridge with them if my wife
ever gets to clean up my Man Cave which she is itching to do but I have talked her out
of so far and I do it my self.
RR
I don’t see it as hard on my case. You said what you had you say about the guns.
If you go back and reread you actually complimented the HW50s and the TX 200.
And we will just have to see how it goes with the Sport. Time will help it show what its all about. Be it good or bad.
RR
German engineering is very good when it is applied to the best of their ability, the problem that I see with this FWB is as you stated that they just did not put the necessary time and best engineering practices into developing this gun but seems to instead just rush through the development and testing to achieve a good shooting gun.
They did not put the 100% effort that German engineering has been known to usually put forth in what they design and build in this gun and therefore to me just like you have dropped the ball before getting to the in zone for a touchdown.
BD
Everything is right about this air rifle with the exception of the internals of the power plant. Engineering wise, they left too large a tolerance for the fit of the spring. Manufacturing wise, they did not properly and sufficiently lubricate the spring. Very likely when BB tunes it, he may be doing a little shimming and will definitely be applying a high viscosity grease to the spring in somewhat liberal amounts.
My beef with german engineering and everybody thinking it is so wow and wonderful is for one thing, it is usually over engineered. It may work great when it is brand spanking new, but it does not take much to get out of whack and it is kaput. A prime example is Mercedes Benz. In the new Consumer Report they are rated very low on the list because of problems customers are having with them. I mean like way down there with Chrysler products.
Another thing is the execution of the engineering. The Chinese have been building copies of the Diana 34 for many years now. The engineering has already been worked out for them. It is their execution of that engineering that makes their air rifles junk.
RR
If everything was right about this rifle it would not buzz and need a tune fight out of the box and that is all part of the engineering that starts on a piece of paper or in a computer program and goes all the way to the finished product. So if everything was right about this rifle then the fit of the spring inside the chamber would not have excess room for the spring to buzz or vibrate and there would be sufficient amounts of the proper lube to prevent the spring buzz.
Being over engineered would mean that the product regardless of who designed and built it would last a lifetime because it would have failure ratio of 10 to 1 which is far above the ratio of anything that has been built since the 1990s. The Mercedes having problems is a prime example of insufficient engineering and development testing to create the failures and execute the necessary steps to correct and implement proper redesign of the failed components in order to first to the market with some new fangled technical gadget or innovation without the thorough and required amount of testing to insure no failures in the end product. Chrysler has come a very long way in engineering some best vehicle in the market today and in my opinion is by far way ahead of Mercedes in quality and reliability in their new products.
It has become all to common practice nowadays for the high end companies to believe that they can rest on their past accomplishments to continue to make the public think that they still produce superior products to the lesser perceived products out there and it is that line of thinking that will be there ultimate falling from the top in the publics eye.
Chinese have always taken proven designs and mass produced inferior products based on those designs but at least they do not advertise their product to be top of the line superior products like the Germans and other European companies continue to do.
BD
Which is saying something when you consider the Grand Cherokee platform is basically the same as the Mercedes equivalent (I don’t think the Grand Cherokee has been redesigned yet since Fiat took over… Not even sure if the 2014 Cherokee had Fiat input — that may be a model that was designed after Benz kicked Chrysler out the door).
It’s like Daimler-Chrysler traded staff… Mercedes quality went to Chrysler and the stereotyped cheap production “American” quality went to Mercedes.
Baron Wulfraed
I have forgotten about the Mercedes/Chrysler buy out and co-op deals and all that did is like you say swap the good for the bad and ended up meeting somewhere in between with some very poor designs and some mediocre ones.
I was not including Jeep in my statement that about Chrysler coming a long way in manufacturing some of the best vehicles on the market today, but was eluding more to the Dodge line of vehicles such as the new Dodge challenger Hellcat that is making 707 HP with a 392 cubic inch supercharged hemi which at this time is the highest rated HP production Amercian car being made as it now beats the 638 HP Z06 corvette in gross HP
BD
I agree. German engineering is the best for the highest price. Once they cut corners, things start going downhill. Maybe that’s why I’m fond of Russian guns which get the most from the least.
Matt61
There is a lot of good guns out there that are cheaper that’s for sure.
Matt61
In the past of say 15 to 20 years ago I would agree that German engineering was better and in some ways superior to other countries, but just like every other country the collapse of the world economies have forced these once superior companies to cut corners just as you say and therefore their end products suffer the same poor quality and workmanship as every other company has had to deal with and there will always be those few companies that learn how to cut cost while still building a quality product.
I guess that is why I much prefer to buy older used items that may need work or rebuilt, but in overall quality and design are by far superior to anything being built today and are capable of being maintained and continue to provide far superior service and performance to the new junk that is being built and sold today.
I just guess I am stuck in the 70s when things were actually built to last and designed to be rebuilt and maintained for a lifetime of exceptional service and performance.
I will put my 76 Harley shovelhead up against any new Harley with whatever performance mods that have had done to it and continue to walk away from them time and time again as I have done so for the past ten years on my 38 year old scoot, it has been rebuilt to far above stock limits and performance but where the new Harley runs out of steam at 110 mph my shovel is just coming up on the cam and starting to pull very hard and easily walks away from them without breaking a sweat. I will not mention my 77 KZ 1000 that is a wolf in sheeps clothing and was a 9.5 second 1/4 mile drag bike that I have put back on the street to play with the new crotch rockets form stop light to stop light.
BD.
I have been tuning for 16 years and the primary way to stop spring vibration is via machined guides (rear main and front “tophat) that are a literal “push fit” into the spring. ZERO clearance. Greases or “tar” are added to lubricate the spring coils only and are not intended to dampen vibration, and even then the lube isn’t globbed on..its just applied as a coating. A properly done tune will last over a decade or thousands of shots. Usually the spring gets tired or outright fails before a re-tune is needed.
RBest
Thanks for the info on the tuning.
RBest
I totally agree in that the best solution is properly fitted spring guides and the correct amount of lube on the spring and as such I would think that for 900 dollars FWB can and should make spring guides that do fit correctly and apply the correct type and amount of grease to the spring to prevent the issues with this gun.
I myself for spring lube use GM special purpose lubricant Part # 12345879 as it is a medium weight and thickness grease that will not cause any reduction is velocity from to thick of a grease or cold temperatures, but will provide the proper metal to metal sliding requirements that is encountered in a spring gun. it was designed by GM for use on the splines of the front sliding yoke of drive shafts and splines of the output shaft of the transmission to prevent wear and galling of the splines during the rotational and foreword and backward movement of the drive shaft to output shaft splines. It is an extreme duty lubricant grease that is not washed away from contact with transmission fluid or other oils and I have had very good success with it and it is easily attainable from any GM dealer for a very reasonable price. It comes in a 16 ounce can and has lasted me many years and actually so long that I have no idea as to what the cost of a can is today as it has been over ten years since I have bought any.
BD
If I compare the FWB Sport’s 50yd test with your Tx200 50yd test, we can see that they both shot about 1.4″ with most pellets..but with the Tx200, you found a pellet that brought it down to 0.6″. So I think we can say the FWB shoots very well, but it is inconclusive if it gets down to Ft-Target-rifle-accuracy….
BB, may I take a guess on the new rifle? Is it a pump-um pneumatic? I have the feeling it is 🙂
My vote for B.B.’s mystery gun is the $100 PCP! 😉
I’m hoping for a MSP that is modular , and modern , maybe based on platform similar to the Crosman Discovery that is in calibers like ..25 or maybe even a 6 or 7 mm. with a magazine that works.
You do know such a thing exists right?
It is being built and sold by someone on the GTA right now.
Heard that Gene Curtis of the GTA forum is battling cancer and only has a few weeks to live.
Seems we’re losing airgunning treasures at an alarming rate.
kevin
That;s a shame. My prayers go out to Gene and his family.
It could be but since BB said that it is “earth-shattering” it’s probably something a lot better!
Mike
Mel,
I’d be willing to bet you’re right! He’s still got that Webley Rebel that it took so long to get him to test and I’ve had my sights on ever since I overdid it and blew out my 392. No overpumping that one! The $100 PCP Hiveseeker mentions below would also be sweet but I’m willing to give that one a little more time.
I had a dream this morning that my Dad had bought me a new Corvette! I have no idea why. He always made money selling Used cars,- every time! That makes it kinda tough on the mechanic though.
The first thing I did was go out and find some slicks for it. Of course they had to be broken in 😉 . Realistically my license has been gone since 2005 so I couldn’t drive it on the street and I’m way outta practice anyway, but Wow! Yep! I got my legs back on the track. Aah. Good morning everybody!
Reb
Mel,
Yes.
B.B.
These are great news! For years, I wondered why no company dared to develop this type of rifle further, while efficient air pistols such as the Webley Alecto proved what potential lies within a pump-up with an efficient valve….
Mel,
Good comparative analysis. It also seemed to me that the FWB was more consistent than either of the TXs going between pellets. Maybe between groups as well. I’m sure BB shows us his best groups, but I also trust him to mention anomalies and difficulties!
An earth shattering development in airguns eh? Well that certainly got our attention.
For the 124 sport, may I suggest you try the JSB 8.4 grainers and the H&N FTT in head size 4.51 and 4.52. I don’t recall you using the FTT before, and you don’t seem to be interested in testing different head sizes but these 3 pellets are the top performers in my .177 rifles and I have read another 124 Sport user recommend the JSB 8.4. Good luck with further tuning and testing. The gear oil thing sure sounds messy. If you ever take it apart, check the fit between the rear spring guide and spring. It should be a light friction fit. In any case, a bit of tar on the spring should calm it right down.
I hope the new air gun B.B. is talking about is one of these:
A repeating AirForce Talon, Condor or Escape
or
the $100 PCP
I hope it’s an Air Arms break barrel.
David Enoch
I second that, an Air Arms break barrel made as well as the TX200.
David H
AA did that with the Pro Elite. Got one here in .22 that shoots 20/21 ft/lbs. I think they only made about 300 of them or so.
RBest
Why didn’t the AA Pro Elite survive with TX200 and Pro Sport. Break barrels are much easier to load and I know the barrels close tight to equal fix barrel
Chris: the PE was an expensive gun to make. It shared no components with any other AA products except for the trigger assy and maybe the cocking shoe. It was too high powered for the normal UK market (although some with FAC’s could get it). They would only make 120 per year…in 2 batches of 60.. about one batch every 6 months. Jim Maccari was importing them, but AA pulled the plug after just a few years. As an interesting side note: the very first 60 guns were equipped with peep sights, and were purchased by the Saudi military! All the US and UK guns were not equipped with sights..just grooved for a scope.
Russ
Thanks for sharing that. I read somewhere that the seal were wearing out prematurely because of the available material at the time and because of the power which go hand in hand. Boy I bet It would sell good today.
The early ones..especially in .177.. could get toasty piston seals. AA later did a slight design change on the seal. My PE sports Maccari’s Accuglide tune and seal. I’ve dropped some crows at 65 yards with it. I also added a Paul Bishop stock to it valued at about $1000. He he..
Wish we were neighbors. I need to start enjoying my collection. My go to gun is a .177 Gamo 440 hunter got it new in 2005 put a Maccari kit in this spring.
Anonymous
I got to meet Paul Bishop at this years nationals here in Helfin Alabama on October 3 and 4 and he had a break barrel he was shooting with one of his stocks that he made just for the FT matches and it was gorgeous and very specialized in its shape that was custom fit for him and he did very well with it in the matches. He is a very nice and pleasant person to talk with as he did not know me from Adam and talked with me like we knew each other for a while.
BD
I hope it is a low psi, sub 1500, big bore. Easy to pump by hand, or lots of shots from a tank.
There is always the possibilty that a lemon slipped through the factory. My GAMO Big Cat shoots better than this,
Thank you for your great reports, B.B.
Pete
Orcutt,California
Pete,
I have a report on a Gamo rifle coming later this week that you will want to read.
B.B.
CFR? I hope they got the bugs worked out by now!
Ouch!
B.B.,
You said “Air Arms Falcons were the most accurate at 25 yards. At 50 yards, they were close to equal to the Premier lites. ”
What do you think why this is? I mean a pellet that is the most accurate at 25 yards, but the accurate deteriorate at 50 yards and thus show same result as CP lite pellets.
Joe,
I really don’t know, but looking at these results I have to say light pellets don’t hold up at longer distances. That’s weak, but it’s all I have.
B.B.
B.B.,
THANK YOU for your honest answer!
Of all the accuracy tests you’ve done, this one WILL KEEP me thinking for a long time. Thank you.
I once owned a ProSport that would shoot gorups this tight.
At 100 (‘One Hundred’) yards.
Major fail, FWB. Sad truth.
I have to say that for the price i would have to skip this as my GAMO Big Cat with the aftermarket trigger can manage groups about like this when i am having a good day. Honestly i have shot a few springers and they all have been jumpy and the idea of getting a PCP and all the support equipment is just never going to be any good for a day trip field hunting. I suppose when some body decides to make an affordable self contained PCP. I know i am likely to ruffle more than a few feathers, but i kind of feel that there is an expectation on the part of air gun manufacturers that they can just keep selling the same old tech and the same flawed designs, triggers that require more pull than the weight of the gun. What i want is quite simple a multi pump & you can call it a self contained PCP, but it should be .22 and be as accurate as a Mrod and put out a 21gr at just subsonic and have a stock that comes even with the bore. Basically what i want is an Mrod with a pump like an FX indy, But instead of making the best hunting air rifle they make a $999 AR knock off and with a compressor, scuba tank and in the end you have spent enough to get an FX rifle that has no need of all this junk. One final thought does any one besides me find it strange how a cheap PCP rifle can be made for around $100 , but a good hand pump for a PCP costs around $300
I’ve never been into a multi-stage hand-pump but I was toying over the weekend with a design that I’ve had lurking deep within my sub-concious , maybe daydreaming is a more accurate term. It would most likely be large and heavy but addresses the excessive friction factor and would be made mostly of readily available parts. Maybe one day when I’m feeling super confident I’ll give it more thought.
In other thoughts, how about a Dyno-drive HPA pump? Anyone who has access to 20 hp(or go in low and take twice as long) could have access to HPA! 🙂
Off the shelf you could use a linear actuator attached to the HPA pump electrically powered and controlled with quick detachable air bottles. You could power it with batteries and lug it around in a sealed case so that the air bottles would be the only ones exposed to the elements. For field use a roll-up solar panel can be set up at the base camp to power the pump.
are you suggesting a little compressor incorperated into the gun? maybe thats bb s big surprise?? thatd sell
Sorry for the sloppy writing. im on my xbox
I only hope that its a multi-pump PCP.
If it is a multi-(stroke)pump, it is not a pre-charged, pneumatic
Call it what you will.
If it pumps up and stores air for more than one shot; we’ll maybe more like 5 shots or so I would like to have that gun.
I wonder what the power curve on that would look like?
RDNA
Good question. It would need a regulator in the system I’m thinking to get a bit of consistency.
I happen to know that the earth shattering news is a .25 cal. Break barrel that will fire a 40 round clip in full auto, burst or single shot with one break of the barrel. 1moa at 50 yards with open sights (sadly, they are fiberoptic), 1/4 moa with scope in 3 shot burst mode. 30 fpe. Integrated LDC. Choice of Circassian walnut burl or at style synthetic stock. It will retail around $700, which will make it compete against the TX200. There is already a buzz on the forums that it is good, but not that good, since the cocking effort is 40 lbs. and the articulated cocking lever rattles when you turn it upside down and shake it vigorously, making the gun of dubious use for hunting…
BG_Farmer,
Ha, ha!
Actually, it will have to sell for under $300 to be considered a good value. 😉
B.B.
Im game for everything, minus the clip\select fire.
I actually like the clip!
If this were the last week of March, I’d be expecting reports of a PCP tuned for 1500PSI, firing a 10cm ball at 900fps, with a reservoir for 10 shots minimum. Since we’re talking ball ammo, a 10 round feed tube will be fitted.
Built-in bipod, computerized ranging scope with automated ballistic adjustment.
When one of those rounds hits, it would be rather “earth-shattering”.
I think its a Red Ryder in 22cal lead ball only drawback is reservoir holds 500 instead of 650
That would be a workout!
There is one parallel to make here, and it’s one FWB have quite obviously leapt upon, and that is the Walther LGV, these two companies have been clashing heads for the better part of a century on the target ranges of the world.
3 years ago Walther retooled for a spring rifle and produced the LGV, harking back to the model in the 70’s of the same name…..Feinwerkbau followed suit.
That, is where the similarity ended
Walther, with Umarex money, had a plan, firstly, retooling costs would not be gained back on one model, in fact they produced a very fine underlever, the LGU and two rifles, the Terrus and Century, utilising the same tooling but eschewing a few of the harder to engineer elements of their flagship rifles.
Secondly, Walther made damn certain that their break barrel would be the most refined and accurate the world had seen…….and yet still, they got it wrong, it sold slowly, it was good, very, very good, but it was 30% more expensive than a TX200 here in the UK, so, when they released the LGU underlever it was priced right in the teeth of the AA TX200, and when they released the Terrus and Century they not only priced it under the class leading Beeman R9 (Weihrauch HW95) but threw them into the ring with the Gamo produced BSA Lightning.
In short, with the premium Walther guns, shooting them let you know where your money had gone, and with the lower end units you felt you were getting a bit more than you paid for.
This FWB is trying to recoup it’s tooling costs in one fell hit, economically this is understandable, even if in reality it is unworkable, however, it’s greatest problem lies in the fact it isn’t a class leading gun, it breaks no new territory in any form. Accuracy, trigger, shooting cycle, finish, are all exceeded by the Beeman R9, equalled by the lower end Walther Century, and utterly decimated by the premium rifles like the LGV/LGU and TX200, in all departments.
The fact that the most expensive of those rifles are nearly a third cheaper, and that I can go and buy two Weihrauch HW95’s and simply own two better rifles will kill this gun and make it no more than a tragic footnote from a great manufacturer.
BB made a very erroneous statement earlier in the article, and one that some manufacturers subscribe to (at their peril), FWB certainly in this case.
“Whether we like it or not the manufacturer sets the price”
The manufacturer, in actual fact NEVER sets the price, the customer always does, in all walks of commerce, the only exception being when a product is completely unique……if you don’t believe me, try selling root beer from your porch at $10 a glass…
I’m guessing the mark up is too high. I remember when those Turkish Webleys were at $349 on internet web sights towards the end of their introduction the main importer was getting rid of them at $150
I wonder how much credit does FWB take for manufacturing the new Sport. I’m thinking AA has more hands on in building the TX200 making it more of a custom build gun.
And what if the FWB sport did cost $499 would that make it the best thing since sliced bread.
My dog finally did me a favor by rummaging through my shed! At first I thought it might be something I’d wound up with while helping someone clean out their shed but after checking it out a bit more it’s actually worm gear grease that I bought for rebuilding my pneumatic air-tools way back in ’99 on the top it’s 90 wt but underneath is gold(separated and rancid) almost waxy and feeling silicone based. Looks like ear wax and smells like a leaky rear axle.Just the stuff for this Sporter B.B.! If I had the money for shipping I’d send it to you. I’ve got over 7 oz left in the tube. It didn’t take much to rebuild an impact and I did my Mac 3/8 drive 3 times due to pulling wheel with it after my SR-500 went over the curb at 50mph and full throttle to get the front end back up Drag racing on “Burnout road”-(Burnet) in Austin TX. That wreck left me with both wrists and both ankles sprained as well as something tweaked really bad in my neck. Anyway my IR-231 was too heavy and way too powerful for me to use daily for another 6 months. I remember it costing about $20 then and has since been discontinued.
I have no idea why I’ve still got it other than it was GOOD stuff and it was so expensive.
Good Dog! 🙂
Reb
Reb,
Hold onto your ear wax! I have black tar which works very well. I also have vintage Mainspring Dampening Compound.
I will get by.
B.B.
You got it!
The Airgun world is moving forward…last year, Gamo patented an electronic trigger that is superimposed on the traditional Gamo trigger, making it possible to shoot both with an without electronic support. Crosman patented a highly efficient solenoid valve (and I suspect the new rifle has something to do with it)..I hope the pneumatics have a comback against the springers!
Please don’t make this earth shattering new gun a multi pump pneumatic, they are a real US speciality but by the time you’ve spent 30 seconds furiously clacking away on the pump handle in tne hedgerow, it can be as self contained and recoilless as it likes, every rabbit, squirrel, pigeon and crow has done a runner from the surrounding fields and even plinking is an accuracy affecting arm trembler after 50 pellets.
Dom, You’re right about the clacking and trembling.
I’ve discovered some high density foam adhesive strips produced by 3M(one of their plants is about a mile away from my house) that are really effective on these guns! I’ve got them strategically placed and trimmed to fit on all my pumpers and got the noise down to more of a dull thump when closing them. If I felt confident I could hit with my 392 or 760 I’d have no problem hunting with either of them. My Airmaster is the gun I have the most confidence in besides my 953(no hunting with that one but I still grab it for short range pesting) and it’s got enough power for 60 yds on 10 pumps(over 770fps with 7.9gr. with 14 pumps).
I’d really like to try one of those Rebels and wouldn’t it be cool if Reb had one that shot like a PCP?!
Reb
Yeah, I still hold out some vague hope that someone will suspend the laws of physics just a little bit so a single stroke pneumatic can be developed to produce around 11ft/lbs
I used to have a Sharp Innova, the rifle now being reproduced as the Rebel and all I can say is my overriding recollection was the Charles Atlas Bullworker similarity putting in the 4th pump, and though I was a mere stripling of 18 back then I was also playing international rugby as a prop forward (you colonials might have to resort to google to decipher that last sentence lol) so was by no means puny
I assume the new Rebel has been altered in some way because it was hard to describe the Innova without referring to the pumping effort.
Fit a foot slot at the end near the recoil pad, make the pump lever run the full length of the stock (incorporate the trigger guard, and along the bottom of the stock), then put in a large diameter reservoir and piston.
Stick your foot into the recoil pad loop, grab the pump lever at the base of the stock with both hands, lift it up over your head, then push it back down…
Dom, it has been done before. However, these rifles (Parker Dragon, Titan JB1, AirLogic Genesis) suffered from hard pump strokes, intricate and complex valves and pumps, making them expensive and difficult to maintain.
However, if you just step down a little – and agree to achieve the 11ft/lbs with two easy pumps, you’re in the game. And for example, the Webley Alecto shows us that a very efficient in-line valve can be built simple and robust enough to be sold in a medium-priced airgun.
Yeah Mel, it’s that difficulty pumping that I was referring to when I said to suspend the laws of physics.
That said, in pure physics terms it should be possible to compress enough air to produce that amount of energy with relative ease, after all it’s what we are doing with a gas spring.
The current state of pneumatic gun technology dictates a couple of pumps though, which is why I’d like to see a 20 pump rifle that can take multiple shots.
So I could pump her in the truck and then go down to the rabbit fields without having to startle everything between shots.
Reb
Check your email.
Chris in Ct
At $499, the Feinwerkbau would be unchanged, but it’s competitors would be vastly different, and that is what will undoubtably kill this rifle, the competition, mainly from within it’s own borders.
They can trade on cachet, to an extent, if the rifle was 15% better than a Beeman R9, a slightly superior trigger to the Rekord, smaller 40 yard groups, nicer blueing perhaps, a sweeter firing cycle), then they could perhaps get away with a 30% premium, you are, after all, buying an exotic name.
If the rifle is no better (and, on aggregate it doesn’t appear to be)……..double the price is asking for failure.
Don’t forget why the FWB 124/127 range went to the wall….they didn’t sell, and why not?, the Weihrauch HW80 (Beeman R1), more powerful, just as well made, a better trigger and equally accurate, for less dollar.
Feinwerkbau are recreating history with this rifle…….and are perversely recreating the bad bits too.
Dom
From what I know of the FWB 124/127is that it was ahead of its time when it came out. Ask any air gun enthusiast about the 124 and all will praise that model it represents everything that is good about airguns.
Yes..the 124/127 came out a few years before the R-1 (HW80), so for a while..FWB was king of the hill.
I bet the old 124/127 would out sell the new one. All FWB had to do is keep the price @ $299-$349 with beach or walnut stocks.
Back in ’79 I think I paid $185? for the 124D, while the HW35 ran $175. Damn..I think I’m gonna cry ! LOL
Teasing only a little with the new monster gun? How about a little more info. If the Discovery was like Jurassic Park and the Air Force Edge was like an iguana, what is this new gun in reptile terms?
Baron Wulfraed and 103David, thanks for your thoughts on my Ruger Single Six. I would have thought that the lead spray from the magnum load was entirely due to the tolerances between the cylinder and the chamber as B.B. was describing it in the blog. It’s actually a miracle to me that revolvers can shoot at all without the rigid, sealed chamber of other kinds of guns. So how would lead spray relate to timing, and, for that matter, what exactly is timing? Without looking at a definition, I had supposed it describes the movement of the bolt or slide in a semiauto weapon and the way this is synchronized with ammunition feed from the magazine. Sounds like it is different from this.
Matt61
With a revolver, timing is having the cylinder lock up in line with the barrel at the same time the hammer is at full cock. If a revolver spits lead and/or unburnt powder, it is usually because the cylinder is not in line with the barrel. Some lead or jacket material will shave off as the bullet enters the barrel. It can also be caused if the cylinder gap between the front of the cylinder and the end of the barrel is too wide. In this case it would mostly spit unburnt powder.
Mike
I bought my .36 CVA 1851 Colt replica brand new for $120 in ’89(no wait/ no background check and I believe in Md). The hand-spring broke before I finished my 2nd box of balls. The Dragoon I picked up had a broken hand-spring allowing me to negotiate a price of $40. Both of these guns were adjustable for cylinder to barrel gap using a boot heel on the wedge. Both still shot just fine if the muzzle was pointed down while cocking(I think that’s the same problem William Bonnie suffered from but I don’t know if his gun was a Colt), using gravity instead of the spring to engage the hand to the cylinder.
Revolver timing can be tricky — especially on a cheap Rohm RG-12. The cylinder stop was a spring loaded pin on the trigger, and the slots were just that — slots |===, not the scoops you see on most revolvers.
With a worn hand, the cylinder wouldn’t rotate far enough for the stop pin to engage — unless one was doing speed shooting, where the inertia on the cylinder would carry through to lock-up. A slow single action cocking wouldn’t lock the cylinder.
The scooped slots might assist lock-up as the stop-pin presses on the slope of the scoop and pushes the cylinder around some fraction of a millimeter. But still a matter…
A worn cylinder stop pin could let the cylinder move too far, especially if the hand is long… If the hand is too long, the cylinder may lock up — and the trigger won’t move enough to release the hammer.
Matt,
Dreadnoughtus!
B.B.
Matt61
if you are referring to timing in a revolver it is whether or not the cylinder lines up exactly with the barrel when it is rotated either by the trigger in a double action or by the hammer in a single action gun. You would be surprised at the amount of misalignment there is between the cylinder and the barrel on some revolvers and it can also be accelerated by wear on the rotating sear or cylinder ramps over time. even a few thousands of an inch will cause slivers of the bullet to be shaved off when it transition from cylinder to barrel.
The first Ruger black hawks back in the 70s were very well known for a large clearance between the cylinder and barrel as well as being misaligned and would throw large pieces of the bullet out the side of the cylinder to barrel opening. I had a friend that bought one back then when I bought my S&W model 29 44 mag and his black hawk would leave chunks of lead on his hand after shooting a box of shell thru it.
My S&W model 29 is back when they were hand fitted and you can not slide a sheet of paper between the cylinder and the barrel due to the clearance between the two only being .001 ” inches/
BD
Didn’t realize all the projectile options for the new 12 gauge slug guns (airguns)
https://www.google.com/search?q=12+ga+slug+molds&client=ubuntu&channel=fs&biw=1615&bih=954&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=9upgVLeeIJPdsATmzILQBw&ved=0CDYQsAQ
kevin
I saw some pretty good groups @25yds. Check out the Lee slugs(the one with the strut). It looked like 4 into about 1/2″ center to center and 1 flyer opening the group to 1.5″, .69cal @1450-1530 fps 1.038 ounce – Devastating!
Hi BB,
Just curious, how does doing a tune of the type you are intending effect the factory warranty on this rifle? What about with other manufacturers? At what point is a tune going to effect a warranty?
Thanks much. Wouldn’t mind hearing from other folks who are more experienced with tuning than I am.
Rob
Rob,
A tune like I will do cancels the warranty. Pyramyd asked me to do it, so I will.
Very few companies will allow you to take their guns apart.
B.B.
“Very few companies will allow you to take their guns apart.”
??????????
What language in the warranty wording gives you that impression?
I own lots of airguns/firearms. I have never seen such language in any warranty.
This reminds me of the urban legend regarding warranty cancellation if you do you own can maintenance. False. Manfacturers will not, however, stand behind your own botched work (and rightly so).
Remember — this is a LOANER from Pyramyd for purposes of review.
It’s supposed to go back to them to be sold (lightly used).
Every air gun I’ve ever owned stated that any dissassembly would void the warranty including attempts to modify, repair, or disassemble for any reason. If saying you can without voiding the warranty was a joke, it was a bad one.
But of course, you don’t say you disassembled it….. 😉
Show us the specific wording, thanks.
Otherwise — Bogus.
Clearly you have never owned a Beeman. Here is actual wording:
“The Beeman® Lifetime Repair Policy
Beeman® is proud to offer a FREE lifetime repair policy on many of our airguns. This policy assures
that during the lifetime of the original retail purchaser, Beeman® will provide without cost all
genuine factory parts and factory-authorized labor necessary to repair any factory defect of material
or workmanship of the covered airgun. Parts and labor necessary to repair any defect of material or
workmanship of the seals and mainspring(s) will similarly be provided for one year from the verified date
of purchase.
Of course, some items are not covered by this free lifetime repair policy, including: normal wear
and tear; customer abuse; unauthorized repairs, parts, or modifications; stocks/wood (including the
finish); damage as a result of over-pressurization of CO2 airguns, pneumatic airguns, or gas springs;
damage as a result of incorrect lubrication or over-lubrication, or as a result of using improper
lubricants; breech, piston, and other seals; mainsprings; and loss or theft. This lifetime repair policy
is valid only as long as parts are readily available for the airguns.”
Please note — No (“NO”) voiding for simple disassembly/reassembly. They clearly expect you to eventually disassemble the gun to replace wear items, as they go out of their way to exclude damage arising from the use of ‘improper’ (whatever that is) lubes. seals, etc.
I have personally had discussions with UMAREX regarding misbehaving Diana guns, and discussed with them what I had done to try to remedy the situations, INCLUDING disassembly/reassembly. At no point did they cancel the warranty, threaten to cancel the warranty, etc. They fixed the guns.
If YOU didn’t cause the problem, a reputable manufacturer will stand behind their product. Most warranty wording, including any purported “dis-assembly exclusions”, is designed to give them an out when it comes to dealing with ham-fisted bubbas, of which there is no shortage.
Direct from the ACTUAL manual, here is the ACTUAL warranty wording for the FWB Sport:
“We grant a legal warranty on faults of material or treatment (breaks of stock excluded) if a fault is already verifiable at the moment when handing over the article. We do not grant a legal warranty for parts subject to wear. We do not vouch for faults which are due to improper treatment or repairs. Claims for damages – for any legal argument – are excluded. In case of warranty claim please send us the device together with a copy of the warranty card “G” and a copy of the voucher.
Our service will also be at your entire disposal even after the expiration of warranty period.”
I’m struggling finding the “Disassembly Voids Your Warranty” clause. Show me, or admit you were wrong. Delighted with either!
/airgun-resources/manuals/speed-conquest-max-rifles-owners-manual.pdf
Page 19, scroll down to the bottom.
Edith
Edith!
First off — that’s Evanix, not FWB. But, hey, I’ll play!
Evanix wording:
“Note—The warranty will be invalid if:
• The rifle has been disassembled and incorrectly reassembled.
Note “AND” — not “OR”.
Disassembly is F-I-N-E fine. Don’t botch the reassembly. (Duh!)
This of course does not adress the complete lack of and “Disassmbly Voids Warranty” wording in the Actual Warranty wording for the new FWB Sport, as per below:
“We grant a legal warranty on faults of material or treatment (breaks of stock excluded) if a fault is already verifiable at the moment when handing over the article. We do not grant a legal warranty for parts subject to wear. We do not vouch for faults which are due to improper treatment or repairs. Claims for damages – for any legal argument – are excluded. In case of warranty claim please send us the device together with a copy of the warranty card “G” and a copy of the voucher.
Our service will also be at your entire disposal even after the expiration of warranty period.”
Steve,
I thought you were speaking in general, not specifically. Anyway, RifledDNA did find some interesting things that show many mfrs don’t want customers opening their products.
I looked at the FWB Sport owner’s manual, and the text at the bottom of page 5 may be pertinent. You take your gun apart, and they could refer to that as “other manipulations” and not cover it under warranty. When a company uses non-specific wording for what is/isn’t covered, it leaves a lot open to interpretation. Is disassembly considered a manipulation of the gun? Maybe. I guess each person will have to find out on their own.
Edith
That “… verifiable at the moment when handing over the article” already sounds nasty… Basically comes across as “if you didn’t see a problem when you took it out of the shipping container, it’s your problem”.
You are now an authorized repair station. That’ll keep ya busy! 😉
Rob
we all can think of 1 or 2 reasons
1 accidently strip out the stock screws threads/head
2 while taking the spring out some thing broke because of not correct tool(spring compressor)
3 while putting the piston back the seal sliced a corner on sharp edge
4 while you putting it back together a tiny circular clip fell off the safety or trigger unit and while cocking the barrel slipped before you had chance to close,( so BB does not need the droop compensator mount for scope)
5 you just noticed the stock has a crack.
6 your fist shot after tune sounded like 270 Winchester
7 you try to cock the gun again and you hear what soud like a 1/2 drive craftsman rachet.
Dom
I do not owned any FWB air guns because I’m a cheapskate. But I did treat my self to many air guns most expensive being my Beeman Crow Mag that is a show piece. So this new FWB is made for collectors in general not for anybody else I’m sure that I would drool over it. There are others on my wish list that are also expensive like the LGV master that I plan on getting soon as I can find extra money. I imagine there were less than 100 sold in the US. Most company make dealers buy x amount to be able to be authorized dealers. Back in the 80s I worked at a car stereo store that sold Alpine electronics and it was something like $30,000 each month that my company had to commit to. And if FWB operates that way It will take a huge amount of money to stock these guns. So one will have to hurry up and jump on this new FWB Sport before thing go south bye-bye.
As BB has teased us into an airgun wishlist
How about Benjamin developing a multi pump rifle with a 6 shot rotary magazine and a valve regulated reservoir so that I can pump it, say 20 times and have all 6 shots at around 12ft/lbs without pumping again until I change the mag?
That would make a stunning hunter
Sounds great! I’ve been laughed at and ridiculed for trying to suggest ways to make this happen. And all I want is 2-3 shots!
I’d want one!
Reb
Cool I hope that its priced @ $139. like the Benji 392 are.
There’s a slightly different tilt on airgun sales here in the UK, it’s a very mature market and the dealerships are quite small generally.
A telling statistic is that last weekend there were 6 Field Target competitions within 50 miles of my house, each with an average of 200 in attendance, that’s a fairly usual scenario. Air rifles tend to creep onto shelves via customer request, if a small dealer gets asked for a couple of these one month, he may double the order in anticipation. In the states there is an element of selling the idea of sporting air guns to a society more used to the concept of jumping from a Red Ryder to a 22 firearm….and we can thank the worldwide rise in brass, copper and lead prices for giving it a nudge.
I suspect Pyramyd may speculate on a dozen or so of these in a way that a dealer over here probably wouldn’t without customer demand, and, stick in the muds we are, we want to hear what we are getting first.
I have owned a Feinwerkbau in the past, but it was a sponsored gun when I did 10m (a 300S) and a micrometer fine thing it was too!.
Chris
The 127 was well made, and had a bit more power than the HW35 etc, it was well balanced and nicely finished, but the trigger was lousy tbh and it’s soft underbelly was always it’s price….one the Beeman R1 neatly exploited
Prices are going through the roof the Beeman R1 now $800+ . Thank goodness the HW 80 is $529 anyone that wants one better get one asap . On a more positive note 22lr are starting to come around more and more often..Truth be told is that one had to be smarter and pull all the resources that will put him where the ammo arrives including web browsing and tipping sales people to tex you as soon as it is spotted coming off the delivery truck( I know no one here would attempt that). Premium pellets price just about match 22lr prices
Trust me Chris, the prices are utterky baffling here vs there, Weihrauch are broadly the same price, though Diana are 30% more expensive, Walther are marginally cheaper there than here (last time I looked Germany was part of the EU and MUCH closer to me), Crosman and Benjamin products are twice the price…but what gets me is a TX200 is actually cheaper there, and I drove past the AA factory the other day 🙁
Dom,
Now you got my attention! I understand why Crosman and Benjamin guns cost more in the UK, but I am flabbergasted that Air Arms guns do, too. That’s just not right!
As for the EU guns being higher in the UK, I never put much faith into the cohesiveness of the EU. Y’all built that Chunnel to get connected, but I hope you remembered to keep the key to the door.
B.B.
A similar pricing conundrum existed in Japan. You could buy Japanese 35mm SLR cameras and stereo equipment for quite a bit less in the States. The difference was so wide that the Japanese often planned vacations to the US just to come and buy cameras!
Cohesiveness could never be a given but the trade cartel (for want of a better word) should minimise these things, however I can order from Germany direct and make a saving (a bit of a wait while they order me in a UK spec gun) to the point it is marginally cheaper than both the UK and US, A Diana 52 is the equivelant of $790, the 34 rolls in at $455, and the TX200III is $634
Nice huh?
Dom
I hope that the Diana 34 came with their Exklusive stock
Well, the gas ram Diana 34 is coming out. So, I’m trying to reorganize my gun cabinets to make room for one..LOL
I wish that all the options were available in the US like carbine lengths for 34/350 and all calibers .20/.25 and premium stocks. my dream is a model 38k in .20 cal oh and bring the youth model back plz.
The tunnel at Newhaven is quite big enough for mobile artillery BB, we’re not silly, the French are down that hole
Lol
Dom,
For the first time, I actually laughed out loud! 🙂
B.B.
A Crosman Pumpmaster is $109
🙂
2002-2005 were the golden years of air gun prices.
No Chris, just the basic model, however Diana have always been a bit of an anomoly over here, I can’t help thinking it’s because we took all their tooling away after the war and made them (fairly badly) here, and when we finally allowed them to produce them again we kept the name, forcing them to use Gecado and Original (and yes, that name was in protest) for export markets.
Dom
Were they called Milbro? I know UK makes top notch air guns. Wish BSA took their spring guns manufacturing back to England. I’m lucky to own a Stingray, Kodiak and Crow Mag you can spot the royal blue finish from across the room.
A new kid on the block needs to come in and take Diana away from RWS and Umarex and those Gminb fellers. I’m just kidding because Diana is trying to venture out on their own name and repp the same benefits of high prices. But I would rather let Diana get all the profits so maybe they can go the extra mile to build their product up, imagine a Diana with Theoben quality..
BB better call ARH for new spring and seal while at it.
Also any chance you can get your hands on the 392 you seen at the PA Cup..
Chris,
You must have missed it. The guy who made that rifle gave me a base to install on my own 392.
B.B.
Chris
Outstanding airgun knowledge there!, yes the Millard Brothers (Milbro), ended up with the controlling interests in Diana UK, they developed the Mod 25 and 27 in the end into the G79 and G80 rifles before the British buying public forced them to desist, they are still involved in the UK airgun business, bringing in Bam rifles under the SMK brand, this time however they have given up trying to ruin the name of a decent brand and are actually restocking and quality controlling the Bam product under their “Supergrade” heading (using tne same Minelli stocks as AA use, giving them a polish and making sure the barrels are pointing straight, though little else).
Unless anyone can tell me different the only spring rifle made in tbe UK now is the TX and it’s variants.
Though there is a rumour that the BSA Lightning is being produced here again, and it has notable Made In England stampings and a nicer finish/shooting cycle…..but the MD of BSA UK is being strangely coy about it.
As for Webley, they are now Hatsan in all but name…..and I’ve never managed to get a Hatsan springer to shoot pleasantly, much less accurately (and I have really tried)
Strangely I’m not a big fan of the TX, though I own an AA S400, the stock feels too wide at the fore end and I don’t find it traditionally pointable so have a Weihrauch HW77 as my go to springer.
The guns I own, in case anyone’s interested
Diana Mdl 52. 22 cal 12ft/lb tuned
Crosman 2250B 22 cal 7ft/lb stock
BSA Meteor Mk5 22 cal 9ft/lb stock
Weihrauch HW35 22 cal 10 ft/lb tuned
AA S400 Classic 177 cal 12ft/lb stock
Weihrauch HW77 177 cal 12ft/lb stock
Dom
Awesome collection. I have a HW35 to 13 ft/lb has nice shot cycle . I prefer open sights just to plink.
Chris
My old 35 is tuned solely for accuracy, you can get them up there but she shoots so much smoother with a lightened piston and a slightly reduced stock spring, in fact I know for a fact it does better groups than the FWB of the review….it’s probably the sweetest shooter I’ve ever shot actually…it’s my benchmark rifle in many ways, much like BB’s HW55, it’s such a known quantity to me.
I’d like to share two thougts about the Feinwerkbau sport. First, comparing it with the Walther LGV: The LGV is a very modern rifle that uses a lot of high-tech (read: plastic) parts to achieve its high performance. Its piston rides on plastic piston rings, its safety latch is plastic, and so on. And the enigeers did it right, as the LGV is very accurate ans smooth shooting. But I suspect some parts (especially the piston rings) won’t last forever, and the craftmanship of the metal parts is not that great at all. It is a very rational “much accuracy for the buck” rifle, using latest materials to give you a very accurate gun without having to put too much money into fit&finish .
The FWB Sport is quite the opposite. Traditional metalworking skills have been employed to make an all-metal rifle. Only plastic part is the trigger guard. This comes at the cost of a high price and the risk of having typical springer problems, such as vibration. Also, it is not designed for the most accuracy for the buck. Parts of the money went into a very nice rear sight and a beautiful stock. Its light weight makes it easy to carry & handle, but is a problem when it is pitted against a heavy fixed barral rifle, such as the Tx200.
About comparing it to the
The text at the bottom of page 5 of the FWB Sporter manual:
“FEINWERKBAU does not assume any liability for events due to disregarding this manual, wrong handling, negligence, improper treatment, unauthorized part exchange and other manipulations at the air-rifle.”
is not part of, and has nothing to do with, the warranty. Its a liability disclaimer. “If you file the sear down, an shoot your neighbor’s eye out —on you!”
Again — the FWB warranty itself contains no void for diassembly.
And neither does Beeman’s.
And neither does Evanix’.
Will The Godfather(TM) just voice a simple, god-fearing, soul-cleansing “Mea culpa! I was WRONG! Disassemble away!”
Waaaaaaaiiiiting………….
Steve,
It would be ill-advised for Tom to tell people to disassemble a gun at will. Anything anyone does is at their own risk.
Edith
Steve,
You are wasting my time.
But, I will do it this one time, and this will be the end of it.
End of the AirForce Airguns owner’s manual (any of them) says:
“Repairs may only be made by the factory or an authorized service station. This lifetime warranty becomes invalid for any gun that is disassembled or modified in any way not specifically authorize by the factory.”
B.B.
Tom-EEEEE!!!
We weren’t discussing Air Force. But — again — I’LL PLAY! The wording SAYS “…disassembled ….. in any way not specifically authorize(d)(sic) by the factory. It doesn’t say THE CONSUMER can’t do it, or that the FACTORY MUST. It says some procedure must be followed. FINE!
That all said — this is an FWB — ‘member? And the WARRANTY for the FWB Sport says NOTHING (0, zilch, nada) about becoming void if the consumer disassembles it.
Just like the ones for Beeman — and for Evanix — and now for Airforce.
So. Instead of “Very few companies will allow you to take their guns apart” we’ve gotten to “Very few companies will DISallow you from taking their guns apart, unless you trash it in the process”.
Which is rather common sense. Of COURSE the end user has the perfect right to expect to be able to change springs, seals and other consumables AND to expect that failures unrelated to their work would still be warranted.
I know you hate being wrong — everybody does — but “You are wasting my time” ? That’s not customer friendly! Misinforming folks about warranties kind of wastes peoples’ time by, no?
In other news from across the pond, the “Defiant” pellets that have been getting some very good reviews, produced by Pax over here, but thus far have been denied to you lot, have just been bought, including the tooling to produce them, by H&N, so expect to see them on your shores mid 2015 under the “sniper” title….they represent a genuine step forwards in terms of ballistic efficiency, giving a higher retained energy, grain for grain, downrange than anything of equal accuracy on the market………in my testing by 22% at 40 yards over JSB exacts.
I’m happy they will be reaching a wider audience…..a very good hunting pellet.