by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
The Texan from AirForce Airguns is a .458 big bore to be reckoned with. The 4×32 scope and bipod are optional accessories.
Note: I just found out the scope is not included with the Texan. I’ve added a note to part 1, where I originally mentioned it was included.
This report covers:
• Power
• Air pressure
• The bullet weight tuner
• The bullets
• Using the bullet tuner
• Maximum power
Before I begin, I’m asking the organizers of airgun shows around the country to please send me their show information. Several readers have asked me for this information, and we need to publish it in a place everyone can find. The North Central Texas airgun show will be held at the Parker County Sportsman Club in Poolville, on Saturday, August 29. Send your airgun show info to blogger@pyramydair.com.
Today, we’ll look at the AirForce Texan big bore rifle in closer detail. Part 1 was just an introduction to this interesting big bore. It stirred up a lot of interest, but after seeing all the other new big bores at the SHOT Show and listening to the conversations about them, I know I need to describe this one more precisely.
Power
First, let’s talk about power. Most big bore air rifles don’t produce more than 200 foot-pounds of muzzle energy, and a couple of them are closer to the 100 foot-pound mark. There’s nothing bad or wrong with that, except when people start using the term big bore indiscriminately — as though it defines power. Then, things get confused.
During our roundtable discussion while filming American Airgunner at the show, Jim Chapman said he would like to see the term “medium bore” used to describe those guns that are larger than .25 caliber but still have lower muzzle energies. He never specified what the power cutoff would be for that term.
I was opposed to that idea. My feeling is that the term big bore describes the bore size, only (all airguns with bores larger than .25 caliber are big bores), and the energy potential has to be addressed separately. I feel that trying to create special labels to categorize airguns gets us into trouble. It’s where confusing terms like “hard air” (a meaningless term for pellet and BB guns made up by those who also sell airsoft guns) come from, and it’s the reason why young people who are not shooters are calling bolt-action repeaters single-shots because something has to be done manually (working the bolt) before each shot.
I’m using the tern big bore for all airguns with calibers greater than .25. And the guns that shoot .257-caliber bullets (instead of diabolo pellets) fall into the big bore category for me.
The Texan produces a potential of more than 500 foot-pounds, depending on the bullet used. And, today, you’re going to see what a broad range of power a gun like this has. So, to understand what I’m talking about, we’ll define the gun by its power potential and forget the fact that it’s a .458 caliber. There are other .45-caliber air rifles that barely produce 200 foot-pounds. Anything I say about the Texan does not also hold true for them.
Air pressure
In Part 1, I told you the Texan is a remarkable new air rifle. Now, I’ll tell you exactly why. All other big bores that achieve 500 foot-pounds of muzzle energy and more use air at a pressure above 3,000 psi — except for the Quackenbush Long Action Outlaw. The Texan and the Outlaw, alone, are able to make 500 foot-pounds on just 3,000 psi.
If the whole truth is told, you can fill a Quackenbush rifle above 3,000 psi and get a little more energy from it. Not so with the Texan. The Texan has a carefully balanced valve that does not respond well to over-pressurization. In fact, I’m about to show you that the Texan’s powerplant has to be tuned to the specific weight bullets you’re shooting. When I used pressures above 3,000 psi in my testing, the initial velocities fell off. And don’t think that you can add weight to the striker to overcome this. The valve, itself, is very carefully balanced and will not respond positively to home gunsmithing.
But this isn’t a negative! You are getting more power from less air than any other big bore airgun on the market. I will show that today, as well. So, if you’re going to get a Texan, do so with the mindset that AirForce has done everything right up front, and all you have to do is follow their instructions.
The bullet weight tuner
Usually, my feature articles in Shotgun News are good because I have unlimited space to explain things in detail and show detailed closeup photos. But the article I wrote about the Texan was edited heavily and lost several key photos. The text explained what you’re about to see, but without the picture it didn’t make much sense.
The Texan has to be tuned or adjusted for the weight bullets you’ll be shooting. That’s because the valve takes the bullet weight into account in a way that may seem counterintuitive. Usually, when we think of more power in a pneumatic, we think of increasing the striker weight or the tension on the striker spring. But that’s exactly the wrong thing to do with a Texan! When you want to use a heavier bullet in the Texan, you need to DECREASE the striker spring tension. That’s because the heavier bullet remains inside the barrel longer, providing back pressure that also holds the valve open a little longer.
This wheel on the left side of the frame is for tuning the powerplant for various bullet weights. It’s not precise. AirForce left off the numbers because they don’t want people to obsess over certain settings. The marks are just for general reference. Read the text where I describe it.
You’ll notice that the bullet weight tuner has no numbers. It’s just a simple wheel with a few lines for reference. That’s because people tend to obsess over the exact settings on other AirForce guns, and they discuss them as if they’re absolute and carry over from one gun to another. You read about people arguing whether they should shoot an 18.1-grain pellet with a power wheel setting of 12.9, or 12.4, when the truth is that each gun is unique unto itself. What works for one rifle won’t work the same for another.
The Texan’s bullet tuner works in a similar way. It’s not really a power adjuster. It simply compensates for the length of time a specific (weight) bullet will remain in the barrel. You make large changes when shooting bullets of a different weight. Small changes on the wheel don’t really matter that much. I’ll explain more in future reports, but right now I’m going to talk about the bullets that were tested.
The bullets
I started shooting the Texan last July, when there was only one working prototype. As the months passed and small changes were made, the rifle’s performance also changed. AirForce experimented with many different lead bullets, barrel lengths and rifling twist rates — as well as some other projectiles like sabotted bullets and round balls.
These are a few of the bullets AirForce used when testing the Texan.
About this same time, Johnny Hill, one of the owners of Tin Starr bullets in Weatherford, Texas, (817-594-8511 weatherfordpawn@yahoo.com) discovered AirForce airguns and became a dealer. Tin Starr is a company that makes lead bullets for cowboy action shooters, and Johnny asked me what bullets I thought might do well in the Texan. I thought the rifle should do well with a 405-grain slug, but Johnny thought that some pistol bullets might also do well if they were cast and sized as 0.458 instead of the 0.451/.452 size that pistol bullets usually are.
He made several custom molds and hand-cast several hundred pure lead bullets for my testing. Of the different shapes and weights he supplied, 4 stood out as extremely accurate in my test rifle. When I started testing, I thought my own cast 405-grain bullets might do the best, but mine are slightly harder than pure lead (mine are a hardness of 6, where pure lead is a 5). Tin Starr has discovered how to cast pure lead and still get bullets that are well filled out — something that’s supposed to be impossible.
s
Several hundred custom bullets were hand cast and sized for my tests.
The three on the left are my 405-grain .458 bullets. Three 405s on the right are from Tin Starr. They are hollowbase bullets cast from pure lead.
As the test progressed, it became obvious that the Tin Starr pure lead bullets were the way to go. My 405, which does well in my Quackenbush rifle, could not stand up to the Tin Starr 405 hollowbase.
These 4 Tin Starr pure lead bullets were the best of all the bullets I tested. From the left, they are 405-grains, 350-grains, 240-grains and 215-grains.
Using the bullet tuner
When I picked up the rifle from AirForce for my test in October, I was given a lesson in how the bullet tuner works. The engineer set up the rifle to work best with round balls, but he showed me the setting for heavier bullets. I was also shown how to uncock the rifle, which is surprisingly easy. You just open the cocking lever all the way, then return it about 3/4-inch so the safety can be taken off and pull the trigger. There’s not so much as a pop of air! The striker returns home, and the gun is uncocked.
Once I got to the range, I adjusted the bullet tuner for the 405-grain bullet first. I thought it would be the most accurate because it is in my Quackenbush. And, now, I am going to condense 3 or 4 trips to the range into a single table for you. But before I do, let me tell you about the big surprise I had when chronographing the bullets.
For some reason, I decided to chronograph the 215-grain semi-wadcutter first, so I filled the reservoir to 3,000 psi and fired through the chronograph. I got the following velocities.
Shot Velocity (f.p.s.)
1 835
2 899
3 881
4 870
5 861
6 830
After that, the velocities dropped off rapidly, but there are 6 powerful shots on a single charge of air! In later testing, I got slightly different numbers than these, but the 215-grain bullet averaged 880 f.p.s. (for the first 2 shots), for an astounding muzzle energy of nearly 370 foot-pounds.
Up to this point, I’d been shooting the Texan with just 2 shots per fill — the same as any other big bore in this power range. I really didn’t understand how the Texan performs until I shot this string. It showed me that, at least with these lighter bullets, the effective number of shots is really 6. What a difference that makes, because this bullet is perfect for whitetail deer.
However, when I tested the rifle for its maximum power, I used the best 2 shots per fill. That way, I’m testing it against all other big bores that get tested the same way. And I did confirm that, with the heavier bullets, 2 shots are all the useful full-power shots you get on a fill.
Maximum power
The following table was developed by tuning the rifle for each bullet weight. Only the first 2 shots froim each charge were used to make this table.
There’s much more to tell, and we’ll get to it in the next report. Until then, stay tuned!
I can’t wait for the rest of the show! I do believe that you are the GOD FATHER of air guns! Or a great engineer! Probably both!! I’m not new on the block? But! Been letting rust build for many years! Now I’m back and being educated by the best! Semper fi!
Helloo can u pass me all the crhonos numbers complete strings of this rifle at my email please? thanks
Well, knock me out from under my sombrero and off my burro! That thing packs a wallop!
Hi i want to now more of this rifle., im in love!!!!! wich point bullet perform better al 50 yards?¿
thanks
Lukes,
You need to read all the parts of this report. Accuracy is discussed in part 3
/blog/2015/02/airforce-texan-big-bore-rifle-part-3/
B.B.
I appreciate the clarifications at the beginning of the article, and I WISH they were required reading for everyone considering a Big Bore Airgun. A .30 cal putting out 100-200 FPE really is nowhere NEAR the same class as something like this, but you can BET the advertising will “show” that it’s nearly identical in performance.
It just goes to show: if a deal sounds too good to be true, it probably is. I’m really looking forward to more info on the Texan!
How do you feel about this gun for hogs?
Qjay,
Hogs? How about bison? Although I personally would not recommend it, there are people taking hogs with 100 FPE air rifles. It is my understanding that one of these air rifles has already been used to take several hogs and deer and a black bear. This thing is more powerful than quite a few handguns that are being used to hunt with.
Keep one thing in mind that it is not that hard to kill a 150-200 lb hog but the most important thing to remember is shot placement. There are videos of small hogs around 100 lb being taken with a Gamo spring air .22
Qjay,
No doubt the Texan is ideal for hogs, but since they travel in packs and this is a single shot I would also carry a sidearm.
B.B.
If people are shooting at hogs with a .375 H&H magnum, you had better have a heck of a sidearm.
Matt61
Matt,
In Texas the 7.62X39 is a popular caliber. A .375 H&H is overkill.
B.B.
So, what is more popular, a River Mini 30 or an SKS carbine?
I meant Ruger Mini 30
Fishmonger,
I knew you meant Ruger. I suppose it depends on which rifle you own. I have an SKS and I have shot the Ruger that didn’t add anything as far as accuracy goes. So I’d use the SKS.
B.B.
Years ago I was invited on a hog-hunt and I thought, “Hey, growing up in Nebraska, I know from hogs!” I was thinking a Ruger 10/22 would do the trick. I mean a Nebraska hog can get pretty sizable, mind you, in the considerable multi-C range and all, but giganto-tusks, and moving really (REALLY) fast? Able to give “MAJOR-MEAN” lessons to Rattlesnakes, Kraits, pissed-off Cape Bulls, and Cranky African Bull Elephants?
Not so much.
Having been kindly educated on exactly what possibly could “go wrong,” and upgrading my consideration to an M1A, firing AP Tracer and equipped with fixed bayonet…I realized unless a grenade launcher were to somehow enter the mix, even the M1A mix might prove inadequate.
Point being, no matter how formidable a sidearm may be, Howdah or otherwise, it may not be adequate, nor in any case does it enter the consideration.
Oh, geeze, there’s one here right here, right now!! Sorry, the Baseball bat is not working out!
Pepper Spray is not working well! Oddly enough, that spray stuff, Pam for coating frying pans, seems to nonpluss the critter for a bit…
If I live, I’ll get back to you…
BB
What you described about the bullet tuner is pretty well how to make a FX Monsoon work.
The fill pressure verses pellet weight and how the pellet fits the barrel is the key to success with its semi-auto air powered action.
A heavier tight fitting pellet requires less fill pressure to get the action to recirculate the air and cycle the action correct.
And here is exactly what it did for my Monsoon. I was only able to get two 12 shot magazines to cycle correct at 3000 psi. I reduced the fill pressure to 2600 psi and I’m now getting three 12 shot magazines to cycle correct.
The air has to be balanced in the Monsoon to be able to hit the valve to cycle the correct amount of air to fire the pellet and have the correct air pressure left behind the pellet to cycle the action.
So I can see that they have the valve set up in the Texan to produce enough air to fire the bullet. But you need the bullet tuner to find the correct pressure to fire the bullet and also to balance the air left behind the bullet to possibly give a higher shot count. So if a different weight bullet is used you can adjust the bullet tuner to match the bullet weight and fit.
And one question. The cocking mechanism. I’m guessing that was needed to be added to the Texan because it need a pretty heavy spring for the bullet runner to have enough power to strike the valve
The Texan for sure had some thought put into it. I will give AirForce that credit.
And everybody right off the bat started talking barrel change to a different caliber. I’m thinking this barrel has to stay with the package or combination if you will to work right.
I hope I didn’t jump the gun so to speak and you was going to cover the barrel interchangeability and the cocking arm later on. But I believe that is part of why the gun is working or maybe I’m wrong.
Can the barrel be changed to different calibers?
GF1,
I suppose the barrel can be changed, but I never really looked into it in any detail. The test rifle was SO accurate (as you will soon see) that I would not think of changing the barrel.
The spring that powers the striker is only about 25 lbs. It’s heavy but not that heavy. Of course the cocking linkage takes all the effort out of the process.
B.B.
BB
I would say I would be glad they designed that cocking arm.
That would get old after a while cocking the old style striker with a 25# spring. I think the cocking arm is a very good idea.
Gunfun
I got the tracking number for the 48 today and it and my Titan will both be here Thursday so that will be cool since my son will be coming up this weekend to see his son and us so I will have plenty of guns that need shot and broken in. I am looking forward to him coming as is the wife also. We are going to have a birthday party for him and his sister as her birthday is Feb, 1st and his is Feb. 16th so the wife is very happy.
I have a question as I was checking out the TX 200 last night and I see that they make a carbine as well as the sporter and was wondering which one you got as the only difference is the barrel length. The sporter has a 13.19 inch barrel and the carbine has a 9.53 inch barrel and the carbine shows that its has a fps of 930 versus the sporter fps of 900 so I was just curious as to which barrel length TX you bought. It does state that the carbine is more difficult to cock due to shorter barrel but I believe that id why it also shoots 30 fps faster as well.
I think this Texan is a very cool rifle and definitely a powerhouse but I am like you that the high scope mounting and overall design is just not real appealing to me. If it only get 2 shots on high power I think I would be inclined to put my name on the list for a ranger 45 instead as it only another 300 bucks and it at least looks like a real gun with conventional scope mounting height and very cool laminate stock in a wide choice of colors. it does use 4500 psi but it also has three power level that only require a different position of the cocking lever versus having to adjust a wheel on the gun to shoot different size bullets at different power levels. I guess I just like the traditional look and feel of guns versus the buck rogers space gun look.
BD
Buldawg
Cool so Thursday you will be shooting.
I think you will like the RWS Diana 48.
And my TX is the full length version.
Let me know what trigger the 48 comes with. I still got my UTG drooper mount adapter from my .177 54 Air King. I believe your 48 has the same trigger as the 54 since its .177 cal. also. The drooper mount is specific to trigger they use. And I don’t remember off the top of my head what trigger it was the .177 54 used. I think it was the TO6. And maybe it won’t work on the 48 either.
Check and find out. If you need it you can have mine.
Gunfun
I don’t know what year the 48 is but if it was purchased in the last year or so then I think it is a T06 trigger as that is what it shows on the PA site for the trigger is a T06. So as he said it has one had one pellet shot thru it but did not say how long he had owned it so I don’t know if all 48s had a T06 trigger or not but I will know Thursday as it is shipped with the action out of the stock so I can see what it says on the trigger when it get put back in the stock.
Are you saying I need a drooper mount to put a scope on it so as not have to over compensate with the elevation turret. Do all RWS guns have barrel droop or is it something that is only with certain guns and needs checked first to determine if it does have droop. I don’t understand when you say the mount is trigger specific as how the trigger makes a difference as to the scope mount that would be required to be used. What is the easiest way to determine if it has droop by shooting at a short distance at a fixed point and seeing how much lower the pellet hits versus POA or is there an easier way to determine how much if any droop it has.
I believe when I get me a TX it will be the carbine model since it has a shorter barrel and is lighter by a little over 1/2 pound and shoot slightly faster as well. It has been said that anything over 10 inches in a spring guns barrel is just added drag and does not increase fps or accuracy.
BD
BD76,
Just looked at the catalog and the PA site and it says that the TX .177 gets 930fps. in both models.
And Gunfunn1,…trigger specific/mount specific??? You got me thinking on that one!
And , the shorter barrel just throws off the whole visual “balance” of a such a fine air rifle,….at least for me anyways.
Chris,USA
I have to do all I can to lighten a rifle for me to be able to shot accurately and since the TX 200HC is .8 of a pound lighter than the MKIII I would choose it as visual appearance means nothing to me but rather it performance and its ability to allow me to use it to its best.
I have always been that way with the cars and bikes I have built in that I grew up in an era that we as hot rodders leaned more toward the function and performance of a vehicle than how it looked and I was one that was known to build sleepers in that from the outside the car or bike looked like a vehicle that was resurrected from a junkyard which by the way several were but that when you would pull up next to me on the street or the track to race all you would see was taillights as left you sitting there with a dumb founded look on your face as to what just happened.
I still have a 76 Harley shovel head that will outrun any new twin cam Harley all day long with out breaking a sweat, it does have a decent paint job but has as little chrome on it as possible with most parts painted spray bomb flat black. I put my money into what makes it goes fast not look good.
I built a 74 Datsun 4 cylinder pickup that would run 14.5 second quarter miles and out run a lot of V8 cars on the track in bracket racing as well as on the street from stop light to stop light.
I also had a 64 GTO 389 tri power 4 speed and a posi with no other accessories just an alternator that the body was rusting off of it from the Florida salt air but would outrun all but two cars in my town of Cocoa Beach FL on just the two barrel and I had 2000 dollars in that car. The two cars that would outrun it had in excess of 10,000 dollars in the motors alone with 2 fours hanging out of the hood on tunnel ram manifolds. One was a 68 SS 427 chevelle and the opther was a 69ercury cyclone
Chris,USA
Looks are not as important as the weight factor is and the ability to ne able to carry the gun between the FT lanes at matches and the TX 200 HC is .8 pounds lighter than the MKIII so that is a huge difference once a scope is mounted and it is carried up and down the hills at our FT range.
I have heart disease and COPD so every little bit of weight I can save is helpful to keeping my breathing and heart rate under control.
As it is now when I sight at the target I am swaying with my heavy breathing and accelerated heart rate so that I have to time my trigger release to the timing of my crosshairs passing over the kill zone.
I guess as you get older looks tend to matter less and besides this ugly old geezer does not need a gun that looks better than I do.
BD
Chris,USA
MY comment below got posted before I was done so it should continue to say.
One was a 68 SS 427 chevelle and the other was a 69 Mercury Cyclone 428 cobra jet .
My Goat was stock with the exception of a set of headers and a mild cam and other than those two cars with way more money in them than I paid for my whole car nothing else could out run it and most would be competition could be scared away with me running down the road at 60 mph and downshifting into second gear and punching it at proceeding to light the rear tires up in a cloud of smoke to 100 mph in second and then shifting to third with out the tires ever stopping smoking.
Looks are not everything in my book but rather performance is what counts.
BD
Chris,USA
That is because they have the barrel lengths wrong on their site ( Edith you may want to check into the specs for the TX200 MKIII versus the specs for the TX200HC ) They show the TX 200 MKIII as having a 9 inch barrel and shooting 930 fps , but then the TX200HC has a 9.53 inch barrel and also shoot 930 fps in 177 caliber. it should say the TX200 MKIII has a 13.19 inch barrel and shoots 900 fps instead.
Edith is there not some kind of extra bullseye bucks or something for finding a typo or incorrect info on the PA site. The info for the TX MKIII and the TX HC in 177 caliber needs to be corrected in regards to barrel lengths and fps ratings as it is incorrect.
BD
Buldawg and Chris
Look at the UTG drooper adapter for the RWS Diana 54 Air King.
The TO6 is used in the 177 and TO5 is used in the 22 if I remember right.
And yes they supposedly take a different drooper mount because of the scope stop on the gun if I’m remeberining is different depending on what trigger is used.
UTG specifies why in the description.
And just going by what BB says about the Diana’s having droop. He’s the one that helped design the UTG adapter again if I’m remembering right.
And Buldawg you need to do some research on the TX200 carbine model to see if the springs and piston interchange with the long model like I got.
And I don’t know if I can I abide by that rule that over a 10″ barrel is drag in a spring gun. You as well as I know that there are many more factors involved to say that applies to all spring guns.
Gunfun
I will check out the drooper mount and see what it says as I had not thought about them having barrel droop. I guess I could find out by the short range shot versus pellet impact to see just how much it has.
I believe it uses the same springs and piston and just has a shorter barrel but I will look into that before I buy for sure.
I believe it was BB that stated that anything over 10 inches is just creating drag as all the air pushing on the pellet has slowed or stopped pushing it by ten inches of barrel length.
BB correct me if it was not you that stated that or if it was someone else that you were quoting or if I am incorrect in my statement.
BD
Gunfun
I correct my self as the cocking arm is different between the two as well due to barrel length also. Since it has to be to latch the same and is why the HC is harder to cock due to the shorter cocking arm.
BD
BD,
I probably did say something like that, though I probably waffled on the length. The Cardews showed us in the 1870s that spring-piston barrels don’t have to be long to get top velocity. Since they wrote their book, nothing has been done to update the specifics. So the barrel length-velocity relationship remains, but no one is certain exactly how long the barrel should be for the more powerful spingers of today.
B.B.
BB
Ok that sounds reasonable and I agree that a very high powered springer of today may well indeed benefit from a longer barrel but it is my understanding and belief that if the barrel is longer than the air behind the pellet can continue to accelerate it then that added length does nothing but create drag once the air has released all of the energy it has to impart to the pellet.
In the case of a TX I think that the reason the 9.53 inch barreled TX 200HC has a 30 fps greater velocity over the 13.19 inch barreled MKIII is the fact of barrel lengths.
Also I don’t know if Edith read my post to CHRIS,USA about the specs on PA’s page for the MKIII and the HC that are incorrect as to barrel lengths and weight as well as velocities as it has the MKIII with a 9 inch barrel and the same velocity as the HC and the weight for the HC is the same showing at 9.3 lbs when it should show 8.5 lbs.
BD
Gunfun
I checked the PA schematics and the ones in the link I have given you and the PA schematic shows the same spring/piston and all other parts to same between the MKIII and the HC.
The other schematic shows there are two different barrels for 22 or 177 calibers and the springs are listed as HP and STD as well as the guides and top hat so I believe that the TX guns that we get here in the US are identical except for barrel lengths.
It does prove to some extent at least for the TX that the shorter barrel shoots faster due to less drag on the pellet from a shorter barrel versus the longer barrel given that the spring and all other parts are the same.
BD
Buldawg
The only way to know for sure would be to chrony both 177 cal models with the same pellets.
And you know me. I don’t believe what something says. I got to see it to believe it.
And that may be true that the shorter barrel spits them out at a higher velocity. But what does that mean? Remember our conversation we had before. Maybe that higher velocity could hurt or help the performance of that particular pellet.
So to me the velocity don’t mean much to me if I got a accurate gun that does have enough velocity that I’m using the gun for.
If I’m target shooting at paper I don’t car if the gun is making 500 or 900 fps as long as its accurate. But if field target shooting then I have to start worrying about velocity. Then if I’m hunting I have to worry more about velocity.
And it don’t matter to me if I have a long or medium or short barrel getting the job done.
Gunfun
I agree that it has no bearing if the gun is not accurate but in the case of a TX I would imagine both versions would be equally accurate but it would still need to be proven as you say.
I was looking at the TX 200 HC as it being .8 pounds lighter more so than the 30 fps more velocity as every ounce of weight I can save make it easier for me to carry at the FT matches so that was my main interest in the HC and the extra velocity would be a plus or minus as you say.
I know the specs are under the conditions the manufacture wants them to be and different pellets will shoot different as I am finding with my B40 so it is only something to use a basis for comparisons and not written in stone. I just prefer lighter guns since I get winded and my heart rate is not stable the less I have to tote between shooting lanes the easier it is for me to get control of my breathing and heart rate to be able to shoot accurately.
As it is now most all guns are way more accurate than I am so in the FT matches I find myself having to try and time my trigger release to be in time with my breathing and heart rate as the crosshairs pass over the kill zone and be able to squeeze the trigger in tune with the crosshairs passing the kill zone so it kind of like a symphony with me being the conductor and keeping the band in the correct rhythm.
BD
Buldawg
Now that you have your bench rest bag is that helping you with your final sight in? And are you having to worry less about your sway and heart beat?
Gunfun
I have only got to use the bag with the B40 and it does help quite a bit but I have yet to get a windless or calm day to truly see a difference as yet with the bag. The B40 still has some very light recoil that the bag definitely absorbs much better than the lead filled bags from my heart caths did but the last Saturday when I got to use it the wind was gusting to 25 mph in varying directions so it was hard to get good groups as you saw from the target I sent you a picture of.
I have not had a chance to use it with The Mrod or any of my other PCPs that have no recoil to really gage the amount of difference it makes but it does cradle the gun much better and allow for the gun to be set on the POA with out it moving so I do believe it will help when I get a calm day so the wind is not a factor in the pellets trajectory.
I should be getting my new seal for the 40 tomorrow so after we get home from my wife’s doctors appointment about her knee and get the new seal in and get my new assortment of pellets Thursday I will do some more grouping with the 40 to see if any of the Beeman or H&N and RWS pellets do better than the JSBs or CPs have done. I am hoping that a least one of the four new pellets will shoot good in the 40.
I will know more Thursday and be very busy with two new guns to shoot as well. So it is going to be a busy weekend that’s for sure.
BD
Buldawg
I do hope the weather is good.
I want to get some more time in on my Monsoon and the FWB 300s I got from RidgeRunner. Its turned out to be a sweet shooting gun.
I think I will be off Thursday also again. Wife’s got yo have some tests done also. So hopefully we get done with the doctors and I will get some shooting time in.
Gunfun
I also hope the weather is good but they are saying it will be good today then rain moves in tomorrow afternoon/evening and last thru Friday then clears up for the weekend
My mail runs in the afternoon so the 48 may not get here in time before the rain does but FEDEX usually gets here in the am so I may at least get to shoot the Titan some hopefully.
I do hope we both get to shoot Thursday for sure and if it rains here Thursday evening thru Friday it will give me time to mount the hammers scope I got on the titan and replace the seal in the 40 if it gets here today as it shows from today till the 4th of Feb as a delivery date.
I have not yet checked out the drooper mount for the 48, but you do believe I will need one to compensate for droop. What is the easiest way to determine droop and how much to adjust the mount to compensate for it. Is it the close range test or what.
BD
Buldawg
The thread is getting small so I will answer short.
The quickest way to tell if your barrel has droop is shoot at 25 yards. If you have to put a lot of up clicks in your scope to get zeroed you gun probably has barrel droop.
Gunfun
Just got back from the Wife’s doc and her knee has no infection or loose prosthesis so that is good but it has some scar tissue under the knee cap causing her pain and he gave her a lube shot under the knee cap to hopefully help relieve the slight inflammation from the scar tissue and if the shot does not work as she can have them every 4 to 6 weeks then it will require orthoscopic removal of the scar tissue so we hope the shots work.
I will see if the barrel has droop then by shooting it and see how much elevation I have to dial in to get it on the POA. I found a quick and very simple way to center the scopes reticles without having to run the turrets all the way from one extreme to the other and takes less than a minute per scope. try this simple but effective method using a mirror.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/419052/message/1211754299/Optically+centered+scope+by+J+Bruse+Aurand
BD
Buldawg
Yep already know about the mirror trick.
Gunfun
Ok glad you already knew that and here I thought I was going to get to show you something new. Burst my bubble then LOL
My Marlin was delivered today and he is happy with it and the 48 is in Georgia now so it will be here by 12 am tomorrow. the new seal for the B40 did not get here today so I will be shooting the 48 and Titan tomorrow. I am getting anxious already,
BD
Buldawg
I’m thinking you will like the 48.
But what I’m waiting to see is if the Titan will be a smooth shooter.
Your getting the Titan brand new right?
Gunfun
I know I will like the 48 and have already looked at the Vortek kit for it as well as the drooper mount if it needs it.
The Titan is a refurbished gun so it could be brand new or slightly used and still in new condition so I am also hoping it shoots the same as my two crosmans guns do and the Vitamin you got from me shoots. It will be interesting to see if it shoots the same or if I just got lucky three times with the three I got from gun broker.
I just bought another Benjamin Varmint power pack gun from Armslist that states the barrel is stuck closed and it will not open and the seller did not want to force it .
I got it for 80 bucks with 15 shipping and I will just about bet it is just tight and requires you to slap the barrel to break it open at first till it gets broken in as it is brand new in the box with a scope, laser and flashlight that all mount to the scope mounts and they sell for 200 to 250 bucks. it is a 22 also so if it is just tight or needs something fixed to make it work I should be able to make some money off it to go towards a high end gun. I am trying to start a effort to buy guns low that do not work and resell to make me more fun money.
this is off armslist so there are no fees to be paid as a buyer and I have to check but I don’t think there are any as a seller as well.
I have gotten the 48 in a even trade for the marlin model 60 and now the Benjamin varmint power pack for 95 bucks that should bring an easy 150 or more once I determine why it wont open if it is even broke but rather the seller does not know you have to slap the barrel to get it to break open on a new gun. BD
Buldawg
Well that will be crazy if that’s the reason they are selling that break barrel gun.
That will be something if it works ok and it was just the lock up being tight. I have had some break barrels that you had to give a pretty good WAP to get open.
Gunfun
I am just about willing to bet that what it is as the NP2 I had you had to slap quite hard to get it to break the first 10 or so shots and then it still took a good yank to get it to break.
Crosman has put a much heavier spring behind the chisel latch on the barrels on the new gun it seems so I am banking on that is all it is and there is nothing wrong with it at all.
BD
Why do these fantastic things have to happen when I’m broke? 🙂
I’d love to know what sort of performance you’d get with a shorter barrel. I understand generally that longer usually equals faster, but I’d still like to understand the continuum a bit better. I’m sure that AF didn’t go to 34″ arbitrarily. I’d love to hear even ballpark estimates for, say, 24″ and 18″.
Still. Two 405s at 750 from air? Or a sixpack of 215s at 880? Even I might go a little easier on the “dang, that seems long” with that sort of performance.
Kevin,
I too am flat broke, but look on the bright side. These things will come on the market and there will be a bunch that will rush out and buy them because they are the latest and greatest. After they start feeding this thing for a little bit, they will discover that it is not easy or cheap to feed, is definitely not suitable for plinking and is in no way, shape or form backyard friendly.
Not having the money right now gives us the luxury of having the time to think it over as to whether or not we truly want this toy. Although I would like to have it, I would need about $4000 to buy it and the support equipment needed and that does not include casting equipment and supplies. That is a big chunk of change to jump in there with.
I’m gonna have to jump in the shallower end. I can’t wait until the carnivores have some coverage. Right now I’m torn between one of them or a Marauder in .22. I don’t believe it’s gonna be easy for my 140# self to use a hand pump and not sure I have another HPA source readily available, There is a diving school across town but no’one’s ever there. So I may be looking at a substantial investment. That Galation with the adjustable stock sure is pretty! I wonder what size peas they’ll shoot?
Reb,
don’t discount the Discovery – only 2,000 psi of air needed. This can easily be filled using the Crosman hand pump and there are plenty that can be had used. The other thing is I would go to the local fire house and talk to the Chief there to see if they would fill a SCUBA tank for you, assuming it’s been properly hydrotested, visually inspected and certified.
Fred DPRoNJ
Thanks Fred!
I’ve considered and still am a disco/pump package. I just want that 2nd and 3rd shot. Armadillo can be hard to kill but they fry up nice. I wonder if anyone’s turned one into a repeater? With my left arm acting up like this it’s all I can do to mount a scope(even with someone holding the gun so mods will have to wait a bit, at least until I can get a good vise.
Go with the Marauder. You can tune it down to 2000 PSI operating pressure and have multiple shots. I would probably go with .25 caliber also.
Thanks Ridgerunner,
Those are good reasons to keep it in mind. The only remaining problem is lack of left handed support, ergo my reason for a 2400KT. Due to the pistol-grip I’ll be able to have primary control with my right. I may also exaggerate the heel & toe of the stock ,if trigger-pull is adversely affected.
Reb
If I am not mistaken, the Marauder stock is ambi and the bolt can be changed over to leftie.
I’m pretty sure it would be less expensive than a .458 Norma Magnum. 😉
It’s honestly not going to be much outside of the price of a nice .45, either ACP or Colt, if you factor in the price of ammo. A lot of the value will, of course, depend on how often you shoot it, but I’d bet dollars to donuts if you put 1000 rounds downrange every year, it’ll be cheaper to have the other $3k in your kit, especially if you have other PCP airguns.
I have two other PCPs, but my Hill pump is quite sufficient to feed them. A big bore like this though…
Hey Ridgerunner I have a Hill Pump too, and love it. I use it to air up my 500cc 25 cal Sumatra and as long as I stop at the 100 Bar level (1500 psi) it’s only about 150 pumps to refill to 3000, so you could definitely handle the Texan’s 450 cc tank with it.
It is not so much filling it as refilling it so often. My Talon SS is good for thirty plus shots per fill. This honker sucks down a lot more air per shot.
RidgeRunner, you have nailed exactly why I took a full two years to do the research (thank you, again, to B.B. and this “commentariat” for being such a major part of my education) and actually execute on my first “serious” airgun. (“Serious” in quotes because my very first was the AV Bronco, on B.B.’s recommendation; although it’s not one I will probably take the field with, I consider it as “serious” as anything I’ll ever acquire. Fundamentals and skills are important!) I’m not much of a bandwagoneer anyway, and enjoy watching how new ideas fare before jumping in.
At least, I’m going to enjoy watching this. 🙂
“What good is 500+FPE if you can’t hit what you are shooting at.”
Right now, the most powerful functioning air rifle I have is my 1906 BSA. It will sling 8-9 grain pellets at about 600 FPS.
Although I would kinda like to have this honker, I probably will not buy one because it is way more than I will likely ever really need. Right now I am going to focus on a quality .22 sproinger. Maybe in another year or two I will think of a big bore PCP.
I’m expending some mental energy right now considering, for me at least, what the place of a big-bore airgun is. I like to think in terms of my whole shooting battery in terms of the uses or needs each piece covers. It’s an interesting mental conversation (and it fits my extended interest in generalism and efficiency), and I admit I enjoy the exercise in and of itself. 🙂
What would I want with a big-bore airgun, anyway? Well, I would certainly think of such as primarily a field piece rather than a plinker, so I’d want to consider it against field uses. Currently, I already have a smallbore airgun (TalonP, .25 diabolo) that I consider about a third to a half of the capability of a .22LR. I have a suitable field .22LR as well. There is the AR in .223, and from there I go to .308 and above. Where would something like this Texan fit in, and what would it bring to my stable?
I recognize that it may not be my first need, as what I have already covers a lot. I am very much interested in further fleshing out my smallbore battery with something that is truly quiet, and in the 10-15fpe range (current interest is in the P-rod, as a repeater for less fumbling in the cold), and there is the temptation for the raw simplicity of a Benji 392 or a moderate powered gas springer as well…a little redundancy in what seems like this most utilitarian power range is probably not a bad idea. And, where I live (Kenai Peninsula, Alaska) most of the hunting I will do–spruce grouse, ptarmigan and snowshoe hare–would seem to require more than a “10-15fpe” gun only when ranges get unusually long.
The big-bore airgun, as a concept (and correct me if I’m wrong here) does not seem to be substantially quieter than a firearm. Hm. If that’s true, then I can get a great deal more power in a smaller package with a firearm: the Texan’s raw numbers (.45 caliber, 200-odd grains at 800-900 f/s or 400 at 750) seem to be somewhere between the .45ACP and a .45 Colt, each of which I can readily get in 40-ounce belt-friendly form, and can hit with very nearly out to 50 yards. And for 39″ and 7 pounds of rifle (including scout scope, Ching Sling and spare buttstock magazine), my Steyr Scout gives me .308 power, more shots, and more accuracy than I am capable of out to any range I am willing to shoot at (I ascribe to Townsend Whelen’s “sporting limit” concept)…
But then there is the idea of component dependence. Meaning (if you’ll forgive what have become loaded and imperfect terms) SHTF, survival, bug-out, etc. Here, I think, is where my interest in big-bore airgunnery may lie. Because the story seems to be fairly compelling.
Okay, at least in AirForce’s first stab at the concept, there are some obvious limitations. It’s long, and I care about long. It’s very limited on number of shots at max possible power. I’d not want to try and fully support the thing with only a hand pump. And, at the moment at least, ammo supply might seem to be somewhat limited (for optimized projectiles at least).
But…
On the other hand, the pump would work. There are other ways to manage the air supply problem (spare tanks, scuba tanks, compressors, etc.). Home bullet casting is a well-understood and relatively uncomplicated art–and larger bores are often more forgiving than smaller ones in handling…
And, viewed in this light, the power level deserves another look. (Q: When is a .45/215/880 more powerful than a .308? A: when you can’t find .308, or powder, or primers.) With heavy bullets of appropriate design, I’d expect a .45/405/750 to be capable of quite a lot, especially with precision placement. Being set up to cast your own and supply your own air would seem to add up to a pretty sustainable option.
So yeah, I’m interested. I’d love to see the penetration potential of a bullet like that 405, down to even 500f/s or so. And I’ll love to see how a surge in interest for the big bores might affect gun designs and efficiency improvements.
Takin’ notes! 🙂
Kevin,
They tested shorter barrels and found that the 34-inches were needed to get the power. Yes, a shorter barrel will work, and probably work quite well, but from a sales standpoint AirForce needed to have as much power on tap as possible.
Does it take 500 foot-pounds to kill a deer? Of course not. I will discuss that with you in a future report.
B.B.
Thanks, B.B. I would presume from that that AirForce had their performance target identified beforehand, and built the barrel to fit it.
And I’m absolutely with you on kinetic energy having some significant limitations as a measure of hunting performance on medium game. I look forward to what’s coming!
Kevin,
Your comment opens up a huge topical area. As in, “How does an airgun company (AirForce) design an airgun?”
You just made tomorrow’s blog, because that topic is worthy of an answer. Thank you, because I was sweating tomorrow’s topic for how long it was going to take. This one will also take some time, but the words will flow like water!
B.B.
Ha! Happy to be an enabler. Er, I mean happy to be of help. 😀
Glad to see the scope is not included. While it is unlikely that I will buy one of these, how many people really want 4×32 fixed parallax scopes? I never shot with a AO scope until after reading your blog and getting into airguns, now I have to have them on everything.
I can’t wait! The Pacific Airgun Expo is March 7-8 in Placerville, Ca. That will be my first attendance at an airgun show.
DS,
Thank you for that information. I’m starting a list of shows.
B.B.
Is that something you will be sharing? I have always wanted to attend one, but the ones I know about are too far away.
what will be the closes show to Elmira ,ny
Jerry,
Baldwinsville, NY in July.
B.B.
I too am hoping to attend as a first timer. I would like to hear from someone who has been to this one before. What was their experience.
Oops I see the reply came out in the wrong place on the blog. I was referring to the Northern CA show.
B.B. What a fantastic Bolg ! Fantastc. The Texan is both very powerful but at my age a very desireable light weight that can be lugged about the hunting fields in California. I wonder if this could down an unhappy wild sow. Certainly a more desireble eating smaller pig.
Pete
‘Orcutt, California
Wow way out of my league as a newcomer to airgunning but sure makes for good reading and an education. Thanks BB. Have a blessed day everyone.
Where’s the bell curve?
(Insert sarcasm here ) Oh wait, it was between shot 1 and 2 on the first table..
I know it is for hunting, not plinking, that’s some very impressive numbers on 3000 psi.
What was the ending pressure in the tank after the 6 shot string?
I can’t wait to see the accuracy testing in the next installment.
At what ranges are you going to test it.
Thanks for the report..
45Bravo,
The ending air pressure is part of a future report. That’s another surprise.
B.B.
Hi BB,
I was waiting for a little more on the Air Ordinance, but I’m very impressed with the Texan. Air Force guns are very simple, clean, and functional pieces of shooting art. And when I ever get out of the red, I’m going to get one. I looked up the Modoc, and saw it has an aluminum barrel(unless it was a website error). This isn’t very common, surely. I can’t understand why they wouldn’t use steel. Seems like the rifling could get prematurely worn. I had until recently a .45/70 Sharps clone (Alberti?), and loved it. It’s gone now, and that’s a long sad story. I like where some of these manufacturers are going. Octagonal barrels next.. So the cartridges are like that of a Brocock system?
The aluminum barrel has a steel liner in it so you don’t have to worry about the rifling wearing prematurely.
Steel liners have been used in the firearm industry for decades, when rechambering a rifle to a different caliber, or “refreshing” an antique (but not collectable) rifle to shooting condition.
If you have a family heirloom that has a bore that is beyond hope due to corrosive ammunition, neglect, or a combination there of.
Having the barrel sleeved can give the weapon a new lease on life for another generation to enjoy.
It is a recipe for a short life due to the inherent galvanic corrosion we discussed when you brought home that cool little revolver, I believe it was a Coty. I guess the forend was getting too heavy? Not the one for me. My next new purchase will be intended to last at least one lifetime. I’ve got 2 nephews and still no idea how much longer I can hold out.
I don’t know what you are talking about, I never owned a coty.
And as far as I know, we have never talked before.
As to the galvanic corrosion, I have no idea.
I am not a metallurgist.
Nor do I play one on TV. (Joke there)
But I do know that barrel liners have been used in the firearms industry for many years.
My bad I thought I was addressing B.B.
Reb,
The Cody revolver did have such issues. But a sleeved barrel isn’t the same as parts in close proximity. I can’t same for certain because I’m not a metallurgist, but I think the sleeved or lined barrel will behave better.
B.B.
What about hinge-pins & such?
Reb,
I don’t understand. What hinge pins?
B.B.
Trigger,hammer, safety… The electrical current will eventually be grounded by hands on the gun but it’ll still be there until it reaches them. The liner will most definitely be locked in place. As a lifelong mechanic,Just about anytime I’ve seen dissimilar metals in direct contact for any length of time and exposed to heating/cooling cycles without a sacrificial anode There has been evidence of this phenomenon(usually in white to green powder form).
Reb
Thank You Edith!
I believe it went to spam.
Reb,
Found & approved.
Edith
If yo’d like to learn about the Cody Thunderbird and maybe this type of corrosion,Here’s a link. The comments contain the discussion about the parts welding together.
/blog/2014/11/the-cody-thunderbird-revolver-the-face-of-innovation/
Reb
Reb,
I would think that De-Ox or Never Seize would do the trick in most instances.
I was/am into fishing, years ago I read about being able to read electical current between 2 dissimilar metals when submerged in water. I remember seeing a chart in which it listed metals in a particular order. For example, gold would be at the top and lead at the bottom. The further the spread, the more the current.
Fish respond to their electrical enviroment. A healthy fish, prey, will give off a different electrical impulse than an injured one. A predator fish will “hone” in on the “injured signal” or current.
Some spinner baits are made with this in mind, with 2 different spoons made from 2 different metals on the same spinner.
Ever try to change an alternator on a car,….the long bolt going through the pot metal alternator housing will almost always be seized together. Stupid, stupid, STUPID!,…that it is ever done. That goes for cars, air guns or anything else.
Chris,USA
I will have to disagree with you on the alternator bolt housing being seized from dissimilar metals as in 45 years as a mechanic all of which were either in Florida or Alabama I never remember encountering an alternator or starter thru bolts being seized in place or ever having trouble getting them loose. In Florida we had very heavy salt air that would rust or corroded anything it touched and that was back when we still rebuilt starters and alternators instead of just replacing then as is done nowadays. I have never had one seized due to corrosion as most accessories under the hood of a car are covered in an oily road grunge that would prevent that from occurring.
It may very well be different up north where salt is used on the road for traction in the winter since cars in the south tend have their bodies rust away while the mechanical parts are still in very good condition whereas car in the north have very nice mostly rust free bodies but the chassis and mechanical parts due rust and seize together quite often. So I guess it depends on where you live as to the issues with corrosion but I find it hard to see anyone rebuilding starter or alternators anymore unless it is a rebuilding company that buy the cores for just that purpose as it is far cheaper to replace those items today than it is to rebuild them .
That practice started back in the late 80s as I was still a GM technician then and the parts to rebuild an alternator or starter went from about 50 bucks to over 150 bucks in a matter of months and GM had remanufactured starter and alternators that were less than 75 bucks with a lifetime warranty. So instead of me rebuilding a starter or alternator for 1.5 to 2.0 hours labor it went to replacing the part for .5 hours labor and it has been downhill ever since for technicians to try and make a living in new car dealerships and was why I went to work for Harley in 98 in their research and development facility here in a
Alabama.
Now new cars have a warranty of 100,000 miles plus and it is impossible for any new car dealer tech to beat the warranty time the manufactures state that they will pay for a particular job and the cars are getting more technical than ever and their are not enough young people with the required skill and knowledge or desire to work in the dealership because the pays sucks for what you are required to have to do to fix the new cars.
When I was a GM master technician/Cadillac master technician/ ASE certified master technician and regularly worked on 50.000 dollar plus cars I could not even make that much money in a year in the dealer and had been to every school or training that GM had to offer and that is when I left in 98 to work for a company that realized my skills and knowledge and was willing to pay me for what I knew rather than for what I did.
BD
BD76,
I think you got the north and south got reversed there. I can say for sure, it happens in Ohio. And yes, they love the salt here. I wash the RAV4 2X as much in the winter as in the summer for that very reason.
Maybe all that galvanonic reaction happens in the winter, who knows. But then again, that is different from salt reactivity.
CHRIS,USA
I don’t believe that I have the north and the south reversed as far as body rust goes versus chassis rust as when working on cars in Merritt Island FL we got a lot of snowbirds that had homes in FL that would come down every winter and the bodies looked great but when you opened the hood or put the car on a lift it was nothing but rust everywhere. of course that was in the late 70s to early 90s and the cars have gotten much better with rust prevention coatings in the past 15 plus years so it may well be the opposite now. I just know in FL a 10 year old 80s model car that was within 30 miles of the ocean would have rust holes in the bodies behind every fender and at the bases of the front A pillars as well as the rear window pillars and just about anywhere water would collect and not be readily evaporated by the air or sun.
I would do as you do for sure by washing the car so much but you do realize that you cannot get to everywhere the salt and road grunge can and it does help to wash it but is by no means removing all the salt that is collected in all the nooks and crannies you cannot get to that the salt does get to.
Most of the issues have been eliminated by much better coatings applied to the bodies in the past 20 years or so as a mid 80s and back cars body was not completely dipped in a galvanic bath as is common practice for all cars now so it was more to do with poor metal protection than anything else.
It has been 15 years since I did any real work in a dealer setting except for a short stint in 2010 after Harley shutdown the test facility here and I was laid off and went back working in a Nissan dealer only to remember why I got out if working on cars in 98 as the pay sucks and the cars have way to much unnecessary crap on them now that I found a job back working on motorcycles as they still at least don’t have all that useless junk on them sans a rolling couch called a Goldwing.
BD
Buldawg76,
Point taken on cars. As for alternators, I was talking about the main pivot mounting bolt, not any case bolts as encountered in a rebuild.
On HD, I had a 2000 Wide Glide for about 5 years. Loved it. Had to take the forward controls out another 3″ for my long legs. Long story short, moved to the country and needed 4WD , plus I work alot and would not ride in the dark, early AM. Sold it and put it toward a Liberty. Got a RAV4 now.
CHRIS,USA
I guess you did not work mainly on GM vehicles as the have a sliding bushing on the alternator pivot mounting bolt ( the long bolt ) in the housing of the alternator case and I never had any issues with them being seized either but then as I said I got out of the car repair business in 98 so thing very well could have changed in the past 15 years or so. I still hold a ASE master certified technician until may of this year and that will 48 years of being ASE master certified as I still took the test to stay certified even when at Harley and while there I also went to all the schooling and training they had to offer so that in 09 when I was laid off I was a PHD master of technology for Harley as well.
I still have my 76 Shovel head that I built from the ground up to a 88 CI bog bore with JIms Evo style lifters and hollow pushrods so it oils the top end thru the pushrod instead of the oil tubes from the gear case to the rocker boxes. I dynoed it while at Harley since we had access to a dyno for are personnel bikes and after all the tuning on the carb and timing it makes 110 HP at 6000 rpm and 123 FT/LBs of torque at 5300 rpm so it puts a new 110 CI Harley to shame and makes the owner angry when a 49 year old scoot leaves their new 35,000 dollar screaming eagle bike in its tire smoke.
We ran three shifts at Harley 5 days a week and in the crunch times it was 7 days a week for 24 hours a day 7 days a week for two to three months at a time and our riders rode in all weather conditions other than when visibility was less than 50 feet or the roads had ice on them. so if it was 10 degrees at 3 am in the morning you were riding for an 8 hour shift and the shifts were from 6 am to 2:30 pm, 2:00 pm to 10:30 PM and 10:00 pm to 6:30 am and I started on third shift so one of my first test rides was on a Dyna low rider around the Talladega super speedway at 2 in the morning for a high speed misfire with nothing but the headlight to light the track as the speedway does not have lights and at 105 mph down the back straight when you come into turn 3 banking it looks like the track turns vertical as you hit the 33 degree banking. I have been around the super speedway so many times on a bike now that there is no excitement left in it for me. You have to be going 60 mph on a bike to even start to lean over in the banking so dresser at 25 mph is dragging the right floorboard and muffler on the asphalt since you are still in an upright position until you hit 60 mph.
Cars have to be going 90 mph to stay on the banking so the pace laps at Talladega are at 90 mph just so the cars can stay up on the banking.
Never ride faster than your angels can fly.
BD
Is that email address correct, with no “d”?
Tim,
The email was written incorrectly in the text, but the link was written correctly and would have worked. I did fix the text. Thanks!
Edith
B.B.,
I’ve never owned a big bore. One decent shot followed by a weak shot was one reason. I have firearms that fill the void in most instances was another.
The new AirForce Texan might be my first big bore. It could fill a niche for me that my pcp’s don’t and a firearm can’t.
Several questions:
1-I’m getting the impression that although the Texan looks like a Condor/Talon to my inexperienced eye the Texan is a new (from the ground up) gun from AirForce. The sidelever, new valve/striker spring adjuster?, better trigger, etc. lead me to believe this. If so, is frame flex that was a common issue with other AirForce guns a thing of the past with the Texan?
2-I’m concerned about a long term ammo source. What happens when you find a bullet that shoots the best out of the Texan and the only maker in the world, like Tin Star, goes out of business?
3-How loud is the Texan? Rimfire loud? Louder? I have witnessed effective shrouds for a condor. Do you think a shroud is possible for the Texan that can make it backyard friendly? Not marauder quiet but quiet enough so YOUR neighbors wouldn’t be offended.
If I’m jumping the gun (pun intended) and you plan on covering these things in future reports just tell me to sit down and shut up.
kevin
Kevin,
Shoot an AirForce rifle correctly and “frame flex” is a myth. If you really crank on it, I suppose it might move at the air reservoir, but you’ve seen the group[s I get with them — frame flex and all.
The Texan is a new rifle from the ground up. It’s louder than a rimfire, but with a longer bellow instead of a sharp crack. Absolutely NOT a backyard gun, unless your backyard is a tank range at Ft. Knox. This is a serious rifle.
There are other bullets that work. But I found Tin Starr to work the best in the test rifle. But eve I can cast bullets.
B.B.
Fort Sill can work, too, if you need more room.
I’d really like the AF guns but they neglected to address the #1 reason I like the giradoni so well- Rapid-fire capability.
B.B.,
If this rifle proves to be as accurate (say 1′-1 1/2″ groups at 100 yards) as it is powerful it will certainly prove to be the finest big bore out there in my opinion. One drawback is the noise which it must generate. Most of us hone our skills on new guns in the backyard which won’t be possible with this one. The only other thing is that you have to like the black gun look to like this one. I, for one, enjoy my Talon S.S. This appears to be one air rifle that may be suitable for home defense although it is a bit expensive to buy for that use only.
Completely off topic, I saw in PA’s new products section they are now selling a very good looking replica of the Nagant Revolver. I am guessing you will look at this one. Mine arrives today.
G&G
G&G, I have mentioned this revolver to BB a few months ago. Together with the recent releases like the Webley Mark VI and the Colt SAA, the Nagant will certainly appeal to all replica gun collectors who prefer revolvers than self loaders.
G&G,
I will no doubt test the Nagant. And if they come out with a Rast & Gasser, I will test that, as well.
B.B.
Nice info Tom, thanks!
You said you took 2 shots with each bullet. I would love to see the 2nd shot velocities to see if they are usable and what the spread is.
I would also like to see a chrono test of a 300gr bullet which should be around 805-810fps. I think we have a good size gap between 240gr and 350gr. I would be more interested in the 800+fps range with a 300gr bullet.
Harry
Harry,
I will dig around in my data and see what I can come up with.
B.B.
Where can I purchase the ammo that was used in the test? I looked for Tin Starr on the net without results.
James,
That’s why I published their telephone number and their email address.
B.B.
This thing is truly impressive powerwise and I expect the accuracy will be up to the usual AirForce standard. But can AirForce PLEEEASE make their rifles more attractive All their guns, and the Evanix Rainstorm 3D Bullpup are probably the uglist guns you can buy for your money!
By the way, is a test of the Air Ordnance SMG 22still in the pipelime?
BB, how far do you estimate this rifle can shoot? I read about big bore airguns being “safer” than centerfire rifles for this reason, but I never saw anyone testing exactly how far the big bore airgun slug can go.
Fred_BR,
I estimate 1,500-2000 yards.
B.B.
2,000 yards with a subsonic round from an air gun????????????????????????????????
I would have to ask for Missouri rules on this one, show us don’t tell us.
Jessered,
Welcome to the blog.
You are making the same assumption that Army physicists made when they were told of Billy Dixon’s 1,500+ yard shot with a 50-90 Sharps at the Battle of Adobe Walls. In fact, when they tested several buffalo rifles that shot from 1150-1,400 f.p.s.with millimeter-wave radar, they discovered that the bullets traveled as far as 3,700 yards — almost all of that subsonic. I just scaled my answer back to 1,500-200 yards because of the lower initial velocity.
B.B.
BB
I plugged your table of bullet weights and valocities into Chairgun using a .10 ballistic coefficient. I got maximum distances of 1230 yards with the 405 grain to 1427 with the 143 grain. Your estimates are spot on.
Question: Would the Oregan Trail Laser Cast .459 bullets shoot from this gun? I’ve used their 350 grain and 405 grain in a 45-70 with good results.
JimQwerty123,
Thanks for doing that Chairgun work.
I haven’t tested those bullets, but I see no reason why they wouldn’t work in the Texan. In the next report I will show you my own 405-grain cast bullets against the Tin Starr pure lead bullets. I do think the pure lead bullets have the edge — at least in the Texan I tested.
B.B.
Jim,
I should have mentioned that the 405-grain lead bullet has a BC of just over .300. That’s from the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook.
B.B.
BB
I had guessed the BC I used was on the conservative side. A BC of .3 gives a max range of over 2300 yards with the 405 grain bullet.
Jim
Jim,
I only guessed when I posted that range of 1,500-2000 yards. Looks like I was conservative.
Some folks might take umbrage at this, because rifled slugs from shotguns only go out about 800 yards, max. What they fail to take into account is the fact that those projectiles are designed with high drag to do exactly that.
B.B.
Hey B.B., been talkin to R.J. “josh” Porter who’s Spitzers in .257 were used by “Tofazfou” in a highly customized Condor (a “TalonDor” he calls it) to shoot Coke Cans at 446 yards. Josh says he has some .45 cal Semi Spitzers with a BC of .449 that will really reach out there.
Jerry,
New bullets are always a good thing. I just hope they can be stabilized at long range.
B.B.
How about the guy who has the modified Talon DR .257 that is making soda can kill shots at 446 yards with I believe to be 102 grain cast spitzer @ 890 fps. I know that is a far cry from 1500-2000 yards but these are kill shots to the almighty soda can…lol. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QV1caY8myfs
That’s a capable gun, but it sounds like you better have scuba tanks ready.
Slinging Lead, I’m not a fan of stand-up comics. As the poet John Keats said, “If [inspiration] does not come like leaves on a tree, it had better not come at all.” So, have you restrained yourself from mugging the elderly? 🙂 And your idea about electing me to congress was in about that category although I appreciate the confidence. 🙂 While I am interested in a lot of things, I daresay that I am not a typical librarian. Most of them are not interested in shooting and martial arts or much of any physical activity. But perhaps there is a counterexample. I once went to see Vladimir Vasiliev, ex-commando of the Soviet Union, practitioner of the Russian martial art of Systema. There are a lot of different opinions online about whether he is the real thing or not. My own opinion after working with him is that he must be one of the very finest martial artists in the world. Anyway, he was not satisfied with the way I was doing a technique, so he asked me, “What’s your job? What do you do?” I told him that I was a librarian. Then, holding up his finger for emphasis, he said, “That’s it! Professional, precise. That’s what you need.” Ha ha ha ha. I tell that story to librarians whenever I get a chance, and it never fails to crack them up.
Mike, I didn’t know that the feral pigs are armored in their natural state. While they cause a lot of problems, they are magnificent to look at on video. I think you’re onto archival, publishable stuff if you know of a quote where Mikhail Kalashnikov said that Garand was a great designer. It’s not something I would expect with him being such an institution of the Soviet Union. While reading about the development of the AK 47, there was no mention of the Garand, but there are details that would seem to indirectly confirm its influence. I was surprised to hear that the AK had very significant developmental problems. It was actually eliminated from trials at one point and Kalashnikov had to talk the reviewing board into considering it again. So the AK simply had its design problems before the AR but was not exempt from them, and neither, for that matter, was the Garand. Anyway, a critical change was in discarding a short stroke gas piston system for the long stroke piston that is only used elsewhere in the Garand. For this to be a coincidence beggars the imagination.
Mike, I don’t know if you got my question about your experience with CZ pistols, my new obsession. The developmental history here is significant too. While little-known in the U.S., it is claimed to be the most popular gun worldwide for police and military. It is also loosely based in John Browning’s Hi Power design. The implications are profound. Browning made a lot of the infantry weapons for the U.S. in the 20th century some of which remain in service. His Hi Power was one of the most widely used pistols in the world in its time. If this lineage goes to the CZ, then Browning stands like a worldwide colossus in gun design history who has no equal that I’ve ever heard of.
Jim M., interesting that you should mention a tuner. I’ve already found one for the CZs. There’s a guy named Angus Hobdell who has popularized the CZ by winning world competitions with it, and he also runs his own gunsmithing business. One of the world’s best pistols from a champion shooter and elite gunsmith is mighty tempting. Too bad airguns are such a better value than firearms. 🙂
Matt61
BB,
I don’t understand what you said by “…That’s because the heavier bullet remains inside the barrel longer, providing back pressure that also holds the valve open a little longer.”
Could you please elaborate?
Joe,
I will give it a try. This is a pneumatic gun, so when the valve opens, the air moves out of the reservoir and into the barrel behind the bullet. The pressure is close to equal on both sides of the valve for a short while, until the bullet moves farther down the bore and allows the air pressure to drop. But the valve will not close, because the pressure on both sides is equal. That air pressure prevents the valve return spring from closing the valve.
Now, a heavier bullet moves slower, so it remains in the barrel longer. When that happens, the air pressure that’s inside the barrel behind the bullet remains at a higher pressure. That holds the valve open longer, allowing more air to escape from the reservoir. Do you see how the weight of the bullet affects how long the valve remains open?
So, with heavier bullets you have to lighten the striker spring, so the valve isn’t forced open as violently as it has to be with lighter bullets. Because the heavier bullets that stay in the barrel longer help to hold the valve open longer, which allows more air to escape, which is what they need for more power.
In summary, both the tension on the striker spring and the weight of the bullet determine how long the valve will remain open when the rifle is shot.
Does that help?
B.B.
BB,
yes it helps but…
When the valve is knocked open, air escape into the barrel. Since there is a pellet in the barrel, air is block (assume pellet seals barrel) and the pressure behind the pellet begins to build (this happens very fast) When the pressure is equal on both sides of the valve, no air will flow out into the barrel until the pellet moves further down toward the muzzle. As pellet moves regardless of its weight, more air fills the barrel to try to equalized the pressure on both sides of the valve, until finally the pellet exit the muzzle. The only difference I see is that a heavier pellet moves a bit slower that’s all. Please advise.
Joe,
You seem to have trouble visualizing that all of this is in constant flux. As the bullet moves down the barrel, the air pressure in the barrel drops, allowing more air to flow out of the reservoir. That is why the slower bullet actually extracts more air from the reservoir than a faster one — because it holds the valve open longer.
B.B.
I just bought a Benjamin Titan XS in .177 and it’s showing some great potential for accuracy but has a very long creepy trigger that I’m never quite sure when it’s going to break. It has an adjustment screw behind the trigger. I’ve tried screwing it in as the manual recommends to reduce travel. Should I try screwing it out or should I get a longer screw. I’m not in the market to buy a new trigger for a while so any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks
BB,
I’m surprised that the 215 grain Tin Star bullet was very accurate.It seems to have so much mass rearward,even as a hollowbase bullet.I can see where the two rings would keep it from sloping around in the bore,but after that I would expect it to lose stability early.
In your work with reclaimed lead do you find that any of the other metals that were alloyed with the lead separate out for you when well heated?
Tin Can Man
TCM,
Yes. Tin is the first to separate and that’s not good. You want to keep the tin in the alloy because it helps the metal flow better at lower temperatures.
Aluminum is the poison that sometimes appears in lead. My friend Mac had to throw away a costly lead furnace when the alloy got aluminum in it and when it cooled he could never heat it hot enough to melt again.
B.B.
BB,
When the valve is knocked open, air escape into the barrel. Since there is a pellet in the barrel, air is block (assume pellet seals barrel) and the pressure behind the pellet begins to build (this happens very fast) When the pressure is equal on both sides of the valve, no air will flow out into the barrel until the pellet moves further down toward the muzzle. As pellet moves regardless of its weight, more air fills the barrel to try to equalized the pressure on both sides of the valve, until finally the pellet exit the muzzle. The only difference I see is that a heavier pellet moves a bit slower that’s all. Please advise.
B.B.,
I received my Nagant Revolver today. What a beautiful little revolver. I say little because it is small and light compared to the Webley Mark VI, Colt Python or S&W 586/686.
I know you have said many times that you do not like a silver finish on handguns. However, I got the Nagant with the silver finish except that it is not silver or nickel. It is a brushed stainless steel finish. I’ve never seen another air handgun with this finish. It really is quite beautiful. Just thought I would give you my opinion. Look at it in person and see what you think.
I will refrain from making any comments about it’s operation and handling and wait for your reports.
G&G
G&G,
That’s great news. I don’t know how soon I will get to the Nagant, as I am backlogged with a lot of ongoing projects. But it’s a gun I do want to test.
If you are bursting at the seams, maybe you would like to write a guest blog about it?
B.B.
G&G,
Take him up on that! You’ll not only help him get farther ahead but we’ll all get to see it much sooner.
Reb
B.B.,
Let me think about that guest blog for a couple of days. I may very well do it.
G&G
Very informative blog, however, my criticism would have to be please stay on the topic of the specific blog. In this case it would be the Airforce Texan. I own a TX and Titan, but I would like to know more about the Texan.
Kev
Really! Good to hear from another person that has a TX and a Titan!
How do you like them?
Wait a minute, hold on never mind. Your right off topic. And why in the heck would I want to hear about another air gunner’s air guns anyway.
But just so you know if you stick around be ready for some off topic talk. That kind of stuff just tends to happen here for some reason.
And what was we talking about anyway?
I know, I know. The AirForce Texan. So what do you want talk about concerning the Texan anyway?
Kev,
Welcome to the blog.
I thought the report stayed on the topic of the Texan 100 percent. Please tell me where I strayed from the topic.
Or are you referring to the readers’ comments? We do not mandate staying on-topic on this blog. Readers may say what they like, as long as it is fit for family consumption.
Please let me know where I strayed off-topic in my report, because that would be confusing and I don’t want to confuse anyone.
B.B.
Great review B.B. Looking forward to the accuracy reports!
I would actually like to ask for starters if you were going to cast your own bullets for the Texan what are some viable options in terms of optimum performance to deer hunt? Which molds would you purchase to cast an accurate bullet in terms of grains, diameter, etc. It seems on the few videos I’ve seen they are using a 350 g cast bullet. Is that the most accurate?
Gunfun1 you may not be aware but the TX has been out since the 80 s and has its own forum and the Titan is a great starter gun.
BB thanks for welcoming me in and I have used your wealth of knowledge to make several informative purchases in the past. I have already pre-ordered the Texan along with a couple of my friends,thus, the interest in casting my own bullets.
Kev,
I plan on one entire blog report to address that question. And the answer is not obvious to most people. So you can expect some surprises.
But you will have to wait a bit for that report. A bit means 1-2 weeks.
B.B.
Kev
I pretty well just make replies here. But thanks for the info on the TX forum.
There maybe other readers here that would like to check it out.
And heck with all these off subject comments that come up here on BB’s blog it keeps me happy. Lot of good info has been shared here if you have never been reading the blog yet.
Hope you find the info you need here. There’s a lot of smart people that hang out here. And good luck learning about the Texan.
Why are triggers on air guns so bad? Any hope for taking out the excessively long creep on an otherwise accurate Benjamin Titan XS-worst trigger I’ve ever pulled!
This guy has a couple fixes now. I got about halfway through the bearing mod and now looking for a longer screw for my Regal. Just removing the return spring is how I’ve been shooting it for a couple months now. It’s much better but not quite there yet. Time to start pilfering. Just Google crosman trigger fix.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIUqzLhz7ak
Brent,
Welcome to the blog. All airgun triggers are not bad. You have mentioned an inexpensive rifle as being bad. Try the trigger on a TX 200 Mark III. They are better than most aftermarket rifle triggers. It all depends on the airgun you choose.
B.B,.
Here’s a real specific question, B.B., now that we’re in the place of discussing some crossover between bullets/ammo/pellets and possibly using cast bullets for firearms in airguns:
Would you have an opinion on gas checks for big-bore airguns? And/or lube for the driving bands?
It’s not that they seem necessary–at least I haven’t heard of any airgun that develops velocities that would produce a real leading problem–but I found myself wondering, since I’ve become a fan of gas checks in “Kerflattenboomer” loads for the .45/70. Would they cause problems? I get the impression that smallbore airgun barrels have very shallow rifling, but how about the big ones that are designed to shoot bullets?
I just had this mental image of myself shooting one of these Texans, and reaching for one of my Beartooth Bullets 550-grain (lubed and gaschecked) pills, just to see what it would do. Daydreaming, of course, but one does get curious…
Kevin,
I have specific opinions on all of this.
First, gas checks are unnecessary in an airgun because the gasses aren’t hot. There is no lead erosion from them. I shoot gas check bullets without the checks. My fear is that a gas check will come off the bullet and lodge in the bore.
Second, I have tested both with and without bullet lube in big bores, though not in the Texan. My experience is that bullet lube degrades accuracy in a big bore, which is why I never tried it in the Texan. I have talked with several other big bore shooters who have to same experience. If I owned a Texan and could test it with lubed bullets I would try that — just to show what I think will happen. But, alas, I had to return the test rifle.
I don’t say that there may not be a lube that will work well — I just haven’t seen it.
Regarding your 550-grain bullet, I’m pretty sure it won’t stabilize in a Texan. They didn’t even stabilize in my Trapdoor when I shot them at 1100 f.p.s. They need to be driven fast to stabilize. AirForce did try a 490-grain semi-spitzer that also had problems stabilizing. I would stay with 405s as the heaviest bullet for the Texan.
B.B.
Well, duh–guess who hadn’t even considered the rather obvious idea that high-pressure air won’t generate the heat of combustion like a, you know, firearm. Thanks for going gentle on me there. 🙂
Good to know about your experiences with lubes; that makes sense, as does the idea that a gas check is unnecessary and might even be counterproductive.
If you’re casting your own (and forgive me if you’ve covered this elsewhere) would there be some obvious things you’d want to either do or not do, viz either hardness or sizing? Would it be as simple as using straight wheelweights without the need for a sizing die, or something more precise and involved?
Kevin,
I cast VERY soft bullets (6 on the hardness scale, where 5 is pure lead). It’s about 1 40:1 lead to tin mix, but it’s not precise. I try to keep all antimony out of the pot, so wheelweights are never used. Antimony hardens the lead and makes it scrape off inside the bore, where dead-soft lead bullets won’t do that.
I shoot the bullets as-cast. No sizing. But Johnny Hill of Tin Starr did size all of the bullets he gave me. I did try his bullets unsized and the accuracy wasn’t as good.
B.B.
Gunfun1
I understand. You are fascinated with airguns as am I.
I tend to collect data and information on point, and in this case the point of focus for me is the Texan. Speaking of which, I think that the Texan may lend itself to shooting cast bullets,thus, an interest of people actually purchasing the Texan. Thankfully BB has informed us that he will address this in part 3 of blog titled-Airforce Texan big bore rifle.
Kev
Stick around and I’m sure you will have plenty of opportunities to collect data.
Be it on topic or off.
Have a good one. Got to get back to work. Break time is over.
Just landed a 1955 Hakim tonight. What a huge score that is!
John,
Congratulations! Please let us know what you think when you receive it.
B.B.
I’m looking for a big bore air gun, but I just can’t stomach the butt ugly looks of an Air Force. Sorry to offend. Just my opinion.
Travis,
They’ve been around for a long time! There are many to choose from and others still make them. As a matter of fact if you can imagine it someone can probably build it for you. But it ain’t gonna be cheap! I came pretty close to building a ball-valve one myself.
What style are you looking for?
I have the Texan pre ordered, my question is this; Can you shoot any .458 cast bullet out of this? Is the reason for shooting as close to pure lead as possible for effectiveness in taking down game. What about for target shooting shooting harder bullets? Will it cause premature wear in the barrel? I reload for 45-70 and have piles of .458 lead laying around for it, but its made out of way harder lead. Whats the real reason for shootin as close to pure lead as possible? What about Sabots? how was the accuracy shooting sabots? Thanks for any answers you can provide.
Thadeous,
Welcome to the blog. Yes, you can shoot any lead bullets in the Texan, though I would stop at 405 grains for reasons of stability.
Hard lead bullets scrape lead off in the bore of even airguns, which is why I like soft lead. But I also like them in my firearms.
Hard-cast bullets have a narrow range of usefulness in guns that shoot at the highest velocities, because they don’t melt from the heat. So, if you are shooting a .357 Magnum at 1,400 f.p.s with cast bullets, you want them to be hard, but if you shoot a .38 Special at 850 f.p.s. you definitely want soft bullets so you don’t have to clean the bore so much.
That’s why I prefer pure lead bullets in a big bore airgun.
B.B.