by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Walther’s LGU underlever is a beautiful new spring rifle.
This report covers:
• Baracuda Match 4.53mm pellets
• Baracuda Match 4.50mm pellets
• Crosman Premier lite pellets
• And, finally — JSB 8.44-grain Exact pellets (for G&G)
• Overall evaluation
It was New Year’s Eve day, and all of you were still snug in your warm beds when I crept out to the frozen 50-yard rifle range to test the Walther LGU. I arrived when it was still dark. After a 20-minute setup, I began shooting. The morning sky was just brightening when the first shot went downrange. North Central Texas is usually a nice place any time of the year, but we had a cold snap that I believe the whole country was enjoying at the time.
The range was hot (I was shooting) but also very cold.
Naturally, there was some scope adjustment needed because the pellet drops a lot between 25 yards and 50 yards. It took 3 rounds to get on target, again.
Baracuda Match 4.53mm pellets
The first pellet I tried was the H&N Baracuda Match with 4.53mm heads. I’d taken both sizes of these pellets to the range because I knew one was very good, but I couldn’t remember which one it was. This pellet put 10 rounds into a group that measures 1.961 inches between centers, so this isn’t the one. I confirmed that when I returned home and reread Part 3 of the report.
Ten H&N Baracuda Match pellets with 4.53mm heads made this 1.961-inch group at 50 yards.
Baracuda Match 4.50mm pellets
Next, I tried H&N Baracuda Match with 4.50mm heads. These are the pellets that did the best in the 25-yard test. Sadly, at 50 yards, 10 of them went into a group that measured 1.953 inches between centers. That’s almost as large as the pellets with the 4.53mm heads!
Ten H&N Baracuda Match pellets with 4.50mm heads made this 1.953-inch group at 50 yards. This was a surprise.
Now, I wondered if the LGU was going to be able to shoot a tight 10-shot group at 50 yards with any pellet. My next pellet to try was the 7.9-grain Crosman Premier lite. This was the pellet that shot the second-best group at 25 yards.
Crosman Premier lite pellets
Premier lites came through, again! Ten of them went into 0.988 inches at 50 yards, giving me the best group of the day! Furthermore, these pellets were centered nicely on the bull, where both Baracudas had been slightly left of center.
Ten Crosman Premier lites went into 0.988 inches at 50 yards. This is the best group of the test.
And, finally — JSB 8.44-grain Exact pellets (for G&G)
The last pellet I tried was the JSB 8.44-grain Exact dome pellet that blog reader Guitars & Guns begged me to try.
These were the worst pellets of the test. Ten of them went into a group that measures 2.003 inches between centers. For the record, these pellets have 4.52mm heads.
Ten JSB Exact 8.44-grain domes with 4.52mm heads went into 2.003 inches at 50 yards. This is not the pellet for the LGU.
Overall evaluation
Based on this test, I have to say the Walther LGU is a potentially worthy challenger to the TX200 Mark III. As it comes from the box, it’s just about as accurate, with a slight edge going to the TX. The trigger isn’t as good as the TX trigger out of the box, but it’s still pretty good. No telling what can be done to improve it. And the firing cycle has a definite slight buzz after about 150-200 shots have been run through. That’s probably an easy fix for an experienced tuner.
Knowing you guys, some of you will embrace the LGU because it’s a new gun, and you may think the TX200 has occupied the top spot long enough. You’ll feel that any gun you buy is going to get some work done, so why not save some money?
Others will say the TX beats the LGU in every performance department, which it certainly does right out of the box. You’ll want to stay with the gun that has a proven track record.
In my opinion, the Walther LGU is a valiant product for Walther’s first try at a sporting underlever. I remember the TX200 Marks I and II, and they both needed the gunsmithing that this rifle needs to put them into top shape. In fact, I sold my TX200 Mark II that had over $400 worth of tunes done to it because the Mark III was just as nice right out of the box.
What I’m saying is that you can buy the LGU without fear. It’s a very worthy air rifle. I feel certain that we’ll start seeing this rifle on the field target circuit in 2015.
Man I didn’t realize how expensive the H&N 10.65’s were. 17 bucks. The JSB 10.34’s are only 14 bucks.
And now that I think about it that was another factor of why I liked the JSB 10.34’s. They are a cheaper high quality premium pellet.
I didn’t look back through the previous test you did. So if you did try the JSB 10.34’s sorry. But if you didnt. Why? Do you have thoughts about that shape of pellet? For some reason it seems you stear away from it.
I was going to mention, in regards to steer clear, BB- when you say ” these are not the pellet for the lgu…” a new reader or beginners might think definitively and not try em, I know, its early…
Gunfun
I know you shoot the 10.34 pretty much exclusively in your 177 guns and you are getting 1/2 inch groups or slightly larger at 50 yards with your LGU is that not correct. I am inclined to believe as you do that the extra weight of the 10.34 makes the difference in accuracy especially at the longer range as they tend to retain their velocity and inertia much better.
I know my Mrod definitely likes them and there is a noticeable difference between them and the 10.5 CPs as well.
I did not buy the Trail NP from gunbroker as I really want the Titan with a dovetail rather than the piccatinny rail and have not had any contact with the other seller I have sent messages to yet. So I am just going to see if he contacts me now that the holidays are over as he may have been out of town. I also may just start selling some unused air guns and part as well as some RC parts and take your advice and save for a high end gun, but if I do that it will be a TX and not an LGU as there is not that much of a price difference to worry about since I know the TX can be made to shoot like a PCP and would be the best gun for the FT matches in 177. You will give me all your tuning tricks and info right ?
BD
Buldawg
I think me and you talked about what I done to the TX. Matter of fact I’m sure we did and you know that me and you both had ideas that played a part in that. Just like that piston for your air ram gun. Can’t call it a nitro piston cause your filling it with air. 😉
And yes there is something about the design of that 10.34 JSB Exact pellet. The design allows it to shoot fast for its weight compared to other pellets designs of equal weight. And they do stay on course better in the wind. And you even told me that your field target match went better after you switched from the premiers to the JSB’s. And I have shot them in multiple type of guns from low velocity to higher velocity as well as pump, Co2, nitro and spring piston and pcp guns. They shoot well in everything I tried them in.
And my LGU is a .22 cal. And it does like the heavier 15.89 JSB pellets to.
I like both guns. The TX and LGU. Right now both guns will produce consistent groups that measure under .500″ center to center groups at 50 yards. But I did have to tune the TX to do it. The LGU is not as smooth as the TX but it groups good. I think the timing of the shot cycle when the pellet leaves the barrel is why the LGU is working so good.
Its hard to say. And I do know I’m well satisfied with both guns.
Gunfun
yea we did talk a lot about the tune in the TX and I have decided that if I am going to spend 550 to 650 on a high end spring gun then it will be a TX in 177. Yes you are right my Firepower wont be a nitro spring or even a gas spring so I guess it has to be an air spring gun when I get it done. I am calling my buddy Sunday to see if I can get started on the machining of the spring. I have a question on that topic as I have to take about .060″ of the diameter of the rear portion of the air cylinder so that it will fit in the receiver /compression chamber, I am debating if I need to secure the spring in the chamber to keep it from possibly rotating during shooting. I plan to set it up so that when assembled the spring will fit in with zero preload and be touching the front of the piston you slotted fro me and also the rear spring retainer so it cannot move back or forth when assembled but have no preload. I have two ways that I can prevent it from being able to rotate if you think it is necessary, one is to drill a hole thru the chamber to allow for a hardened pin which I have that fits the hole perfectly in the rear on the spring like it was most likely held in the hatsan. The other would require more machine time and work and be more complicated as I would have to make a rear chamber plug that will fit in the center rectangular slot in the rear of the spring end and allow for the same pin to secure it to the rear chamber plug with the same hardened pin that fits in the spring now only it will have to machined shorter as it may even have to be shortened to even be used by just drilling a hole thru the chamber ( I have not got that far into the fitment yet ) and then the rear chamber plug would be held in with the factory cross pin.
So my question is how important do think it is for the spring to be allowed to rotate in the chamber or should it be secured so that it cannot rotate and which method would you think better.
I know that the JSB 10 .34s do good in all your guns and the Mrod likes them better than the CP as you stated my scoring in the Ft match improved when I switched from the CPs to the JSBs for just the reason you stated above.
But I would like a 22 break barrel for out back plinking and some hunting but the 22 60C will also fill that spot quite well know that the leaky valve seat issues have been fixed by putting the crosman valve in it. It is also much lighter than a break barrel is so if the one I am trying to buy do not happen I think I am going to start selling to get me a TX in 177 for my spring FT gun along with my converted Firepower.
BD
Buldawg
The best I can say right now is you need to text or email me some pictures so I can see what the pieces look like.
I don’t think rotation will bother anything. But I really need to see how they look when you set them on a table in order of assembly. Right now I would be guessing.
And I’m 100% positive you will be happy with a TX if you get one. They are just to easy to work on.
Gunfun
I figured I would need to send pics for you to see to make a better decision on whether it should be allowed to rotate so I will lay everything out tomorrow as it would fit and send then to you to see what you think and may ask you to machine the new rear plug if that is the best route you think I should take as my buddies mill is not that good of one and it does not hold tolerances that well as I think the bed or spindle has some looseness in them, because if you think it needs to be anchored to the rear chamber plug then I think you could make it more precise than I can on his mill.
But we will discuss that when you have some pics ok.
BD
Gunfun
I am getting ready to go to bed so I will get pics to you tomorrow
BD
Buldawg
Ok and I’m making a end cap for RDNA soon as I go back to work next week. He already sent me a part and drawing for his.
So yep just send me some pictures first.
Gunfunn1,
Milling slots to lighten piston thus reducing stored energy, while at the same time, not impacting any function of the modified part,,,I like it!
Tuning aside, when I click on your photo bucket pics, my lap top starts doing some bad stuff. (Yesterday’s pic clicks were all good.) Day before however, I started to get pop ups, threat warnings, attacks blocked, etc. and the cooling fan went into over drive.
I do not know anything when it comes to computers. 🙁 I have Norton 360 but even mess that up when installing. It’s on auto renew now. I have heard that one should be carefull when clicking on links.
I just thought I would bring it up. It’s probably something on my end. Catch you later.
Chris, USA
You definatly have to be careful. And I’m not a computer whiz either.
But no I never had any problems with photobucket.
Matter of fact I didn’t know anything about photobucket till I got on this blog and other people where using it.
I never had any problems anytime when I click on it.
And I think it is something to do with a derect down load in a link that could be a problem. Edith is the one to ask. She is very good with computer stuff.
And I have been wanting to buy another piston for my TX and lighten it. That way I still have my original one to put the gun back stock.
Right now the TX is doing so good with the tune I did I don’t want to touch it. It just has a slight forward bump and I mean very slight.
I did a experiment at work with a air cylinder, a heavy and a lightened piston hooked to a air gauge.
The lighter piston definatly bumped less than the heavy piston and the air pressure spiked higher. So that has to say something about the light piston.
Gunfun1
Don’t take this the wrong way, I don’t own a TX200 yet, but I’ve seen/shot/handled many TX’s. And in my opinion AA just didn’t get lucky and get it wright bye luck. But I’m curious how much more to one’s liking you can make the TX200.
Buldawg,
You would not happen to have a Stoeger X20S or ATAC in that collection, would you? 😉
RR
Sorry no Stoegers or Atacs at all in my collection.
I have a couple Chinese guns that have all been rebuilt and are good for plinking and very light pest control such as mice, birds, squirrels that I would be willing to sell. I have a B3-1 that is brand new underlever that did not need rebuilt but since I bought a kit it got a new spring, new synthetic sea,l moly lubed, the underlever rod plastic handle was missing and I have made a replacement that works just like the original and shoots in the 500 to 550 range depending on pellet weight.
A B3-2 that was rebuilt with the spring out of the new B3-1 and the leather seal soaked in motor oil for a week and lubed and shoots in the same 500 to 550 range, has a dove tail groove in the top of action but no scope stop hole and the dovetail is fairly short so no one piece mounts will fit with out being modified, but a red dot would fit good with a hole drilled for stop pin. and the ugly orange paint on the stock was covered with spray on black bed liner paint for a synthetic look and feel.
A Pioneer break barrel that has been rebuilt with a new car brake cylinder wheel cylinder piston cup seal and lubed that shoot 400 to 425 range and is a great first gun for a young shooter.
They all are 177 caliber and have open sights on them right now.
BD
That bedliner stuff is awesome, right? I get the undercoating black rubber, its a little smoother but takes longer to dry. I put a toe cap on my new boots, hate scuffin the toe of new boots and that stuff is bulletproof.
RDNA
You got it that’s what I used as it just about indestructible and it looks way better than that ugly orange color that the B3-2s always came with on the stock.
My trucks bed has the Line X sprayed in stuff in it and you can throw cinder blocks or bricks and rocks in it and it doe not even scratch it Cool stuff.
BD
I’m looking for .22 caliber. I am wanting power at range. If Crosman ever comes out with the NP2 with a regular type stock, I might give one of those some serious thought. I know I can make the trigger halfway decent.
You never know. If I clean out the garage and shed and have a guy stuff yard sale, I might end up with enough for a TX or LGU.
RR
I have no 22s for sale know. But I can shed some light on the new NP2 of Crosmans as I just sent a Benjamin Trail NP2 back to PA because it shot so poorly that I could not hit anything past 10 or so yards. I had a Titan NP in 22 cal that I traded to GF1 for a buddy bottle which is the Gun we refer to as the Vitamin because it is a Benjamin Titan GP with the original Nitro spring in a wood Crosman Venom stock as I wanted to keep the thumbhole wood stock for the Firepower FT gun I am building with the Hatsan air spring I got from RDNA. The regular NPs, as I still have the Venom NP in the Firepowers synthetic stock shoot so good that all their is in the way of recoil or harshness is just a small thunk when fired and their is no forward and backward movement just a forward thunk that is very light and I can hit sub 1 inch groups at 50 yards very easily off of a bag and they do not require any form of artillery hold to be accurate.
The NP2 on the other hand has a very harsh and unrefined shot cycle that just turned me off after about 20 shots as it is no where near as nice to shoot or accurate as a plain NP is, just ask GF1 what he thinks about the one he got from me as he says it is the best shooting nitro spring gun he has ever shot and he has shot quite a few. The NP2 was only capable of shooting any pellet given 70 fps faster than a plain NP and to me that little of a difference was not worth having to live with the harsh and unrefined shot cycle it has and I believe that Crosman really dropped the ball with the NP2 and needs to go back and start all over. The main issue that I think is at the root of the cause for the way greater recoil and harshness is the nitro spring is turned around in the gun with the large main body inside the piston and the small rod facing the rear chamber block where the plain NP it is just the opposite with the body in the rear chamber plug and the rod inside the piston. By turning the spring around they have added to much weight to the piston even though the piston has a rubber cushion right behind the piston seal it does not do much to help the severe recoil in both directions. I think they should have stayed with there original design and just upgraded the spring for more power if that is what they were trying to achieve with the NP2.
So I am now looking for another Titan NP as I like the thumbhole stock and it is just a plain pleasure to shoot all day long with very little recoil and great accuracy for the price. I was going to swap the NP2 for the Titan at PA but they had the 177 for 99.99 and the 22 for 129.99 and I tried to get them to give me the 22 for 99.99 and they would not do it so I just sent the NP2 back for a refund and will find another used one for under 100 bucks as the Titan I traded to GF1 I got off gun broker for 85 dollars and 20 bucks shipping.
So if you are dead set on a NP2 then just be aware that it is nowhere near as nice a shooting gun as the plain NPs are and not enough power increase to make any real difference. If it would have shot 14.3 CPs at over 1000 fps it would be a different matter but my NP shoots them at 740 to 750 fps and the NP2 would only shot them at 810 to 820fps.
BD .
BD,
No I am not in any way, shape or form dead set on having the NP2. I think it is ugly, from what I hear the trigger still needs work on it and I fully understand a harsh shot cycle from a gas spring from when I tried one in my CFX. That was a total disaster and promptly taken back to normal.
Right now in my Wish List resides a Benjamin Regal. That will likely be what I get if I go with a Crosman. It has serious trigger issues also, but I at least know how to improve them to where it is usable and it looks pretty nice also. It is probably low enough power to shoot decently.
I have been hearing fairly good stuff about the Stoeger X20S. Also, the ATAC is the same rifle with a gas spring. I can fix the trigger in it and maybe later convert it to a gas spring, maybe even a Hatsan or Theoben so that I can tune it.
RR
Actually the trigger in the NP2 is better than the NPs and is a true two stage trigger it just needs a lighter spring to make it a very nice trigger and have a very smooth and crisp release.
The regal I cannot say as far as the shot cycle goes but GF1 had a regal recently so he could comment on it , but my two plain NP guns ( well now one ) as GF1 has the titan are a pleasure to shoot and are in no way harsh or unrefined in any way. I would say I just got a good one if I had not had two NPs one in 177 which I still have in the form of a Venom and one in 22 that is now GF1s. But both of the NPs shot exactly the same and it is not bad in any way at all so if you have not shot a NP gun then you are missing out on a very nice nitro spring gun and I will without hesitation recommend you try one as I truly believe you will like it quite well.
There’s a cheap and simple trigger fix for the non NP2 crosman spring guns that I have talked about here before and again GF1 can attest to how that is also as his Vitamin has that mod done on it. Just go to hobby shop in your area that sells RC stuff and get a 2.5mm wide by 5mm ID by 8mm OD bearing that will cost you 2 or 3 bucks and take the trigger blade out of the housing and remove the spring and pin in the lower center hole in the trigger and then remove the rear pin that is stepped in diameter and place the bearing in the hollow of the trigger where the stepped pin you just took out goes so that the bearing is inside the trigger and fits over the large end of the stepped pin and make sure the pin is in so that the small diameter is lined up with the slot in the housing so the bear trap will work, then remove the adjustment screw and plastic block that it threads into as they are no longer necessary and reinstall the trigger pivot pin and c clip.
you will have a trigger with about an 1/8 inch first stage and a very smooth and crisp second stage release. If you want no first stage and a hair trigger then get a 3mm wide by 5mm ID by 9mm OD and put it in in place of the previous bearing and it will be a hair trigger with a non functioning safety so I do not recommend that unless only experienced shooters will be using it as it is not to the point that it will fire if bumped or knocked on but it takes maybe 1/2 pound or less to fire.
I have never shot any Stoeger or ATAC guns so I have no experience on them, but the air spring that I am putting in my Crosman quest/vantage clone named Firepower gun is a Hatsan spring and is adjustable for pressure with the use of the fill probe used in their PCP guns and since I have an AT 44 22 cal hatsan I have the fill probe to use to fill the air spring with HPA and it is capable of being filled to 135 BAR as it
RR
my batteries in my keyboard just died in mid sentence
It says the maximum fill pressure on the side of the spring and RDNA also forwarded me all the emails between him and hatsan tech when he was deciding if he was going to keep the air spring or put a coil spring in the 95 he got from GF1 so we will see how it work when I get it fitted in my firepower and as a matter of fact I need to send GF1 some pics of the setup to get his opinion on fitment design.
BD
Buldawg
Where are those pictures. I thought I would have seen them by now.
Gunfuin
I am getting ready to send them now as I just got done taking them, but since I laid everything out and like it will be in the gun the spring will not be at a zero preload unless I cut some of the end of the rod off as it looks to be roughly about 3/4sto 1 inch longer than the compression chamber is with the piston and spring together an the end plug in place so I am not sure that the spring will even be able to rotate with some pressure on it at rest.
I am not sure I want to shorten the rod as it could possibly be pushed into the housing to far and get stuck so the most I could remove from the rod is 7/16 of an inch and still have a 1/16 protruding with it fully collapsed.
But I am going to send them a couple pics at a time so they don’t mess up like last night,
BD
After struggling with this Regal I’m wondering how easy it might be to destroke it. after going through the QB-36 and the related research it would appear that a lengthened piston or seal should take up more of the swept volume than the standard seal which would also shorten firing cycle duration and should decrease hold sensitivity. Now the question is who builds custom pistons and seals? If this 50 mm scope don’t change things considerably I’ll be looking into it!
Reb
Reb
Reb
Crosman has detuned nitro spring for their UK guns and guns sold stateside in area that limit power so it is as easy as swapping springs, but here is what is puzzling me is the Regal shoots with more recoil than my Titan that Gf1 has now as he confirmed that the Regal you got from him does indeed have a heavier recoil than the Vitamin he got from me ( Titan action in the Venom stack ) yet they both have the same nitro spring and are identical in the actions since they both have the same part numbers.
So I am thinking that the venom just needs more breaking in to smooth out because both my Venom and titan were bought used off gun broker so I have no idea how many shot went thru them but when I had booth of them they shot exactly the same as well as my firepower coil spring gun which I am converting into a FT gun with a hatsan compressed air spring I got from RDNA.
But you can get a detuned nitro piston from crosman for 10 to 30 bucks depending on the spring. you just need to research on their website for a nitro spring that states detuned and the first number in the part number is the power level in terms of fps rating.
BD
Meant titan action in the Vernom stock
meant venom stock
Be aware the Regal I got is very harsh for my taste. Plenty of power! but I’ll be tuning on it before I can really use it. I’m also in the market for some high rings with incorporated stop to accommodate the 50 mm scope I’m trying to get on it. Til that happens it’s hit or miss. I was gonna take a target shot with it but had a sparrow land in front on the ground, after readjusting and firing I realized I almost put enough energy on my collarbone to fracture it.
Reb
Not sure what happened there, I meant that as a reply to Ridgerunner.
RR
I have been looking into the Stoeger rifles since you asked me about them yesterday and from what I see and have read they look to a very reasonable priced quality gun with very tame recoil characteristics.
Have you shot the X20 series with the coil spring and/or the gas spring models at all or are you just going from the reviews and videos that are available.
I am seriously considering buying one of them instead of a Titan, although when looking at the schematic of them they appear to be pretty much the same as a crosmans except for the automatic safety.
If the seller of the Titan ever contacts me I will get it but if not the Stoegers look to be in the running also now. so if you have any hands on experience please let me know your thoughts.
BD
Buldawg
Had one. Don’t no more. Mine was a X20s which means it has the shroud or silencer or whatever you wan to call it. It was quiet. It was a spring gun not a nitro piston. Wasn’t bad on the recoil. Probably a 3.5 on recoil. it did have some vibration ant a bit of a buzz when it fired.
Accuracy was so so. About 1inch at 30 yards. It was a .177 cal.
RR
Ok thanks as that’s what I was wanting to know and I was looking at the X20 in hardwood stock as noise is not an issue with me and I would be getting a 22 caliber.
Have you shot any Crosman or Benjamin plain Nitro piston gun so that you could make a comparison between the two as far as recoil goes and if there is any difference whish is better in your opinion.
BD
Buldawg
Ha ha, there you go again. Not reading who wrote the reply. You were talking to RR. I wrote the reply about the X20s. Or you put RR at the top of your reply instead of Gunfun1.
🙂
Gunfun
you caught me again, dag nabbit I thought I was responding to RR as you stated nut its even better that you have shot a X20 so is the Vitamin a better shooter or what as I can get a new X20 for 160 with a 3x9x40 AO scope already on it from the factory.
It looks to the same Chinese design as the crosmans except for the auto safety and no thumbhole stock/
Still no contact with the seller on the Titan so I was waiting till Monday or Tuesday to see if I get a message from him.
So what is the verdict would you give it a yay or nay.
BD
Gunfun
Getting ready to try and call Reb as I just got done some shooting up inside the back porch while its raining and yopu are right it does not affect your POI as I got another squirrel at 50 yards with the Mrod as he was running along the top of the neighbors fence.
I will let you know if I get hold of Reb or not.
BD
Finally made it! Trying to get caught up right now. I sent GF1 a e-mail explaining what was going on but I’d post it again here so anyone interested can be updated but I’ll do it on the current blog instead so it doesn’t go straight into the archives.
Thanks for your concern!
Reb
Reb
Glad to hear from you bro as we were worried that something had happened since you have not been posting recently. I know you said you were at your nephews and that you did not have good internet there but I tried to call you and it said the number was not in service so we did not know what to think, but just glad you are still up and running. GF1 texted me and said something about a blood clot in your brain and that cant be good so what can be/or is being done about it. I knew the last time we talked on the phone they were doing more tests so I guess they found the clot in those tests.
On the regal you got from GF1 is it a Nitro gin or coil gun as I know my Venom and the Titan I swapped GF1 for a buddy bottle shoot very smooth with just a light single clunk when fired so the Regal still may need to get broke in some more.
I had bought a Trail NP2 right before Christmas and have sent it back because it shot so harsh and violentl that it was very disappointing as the NP2 is supposed to be better than the NPs and it was no where near them and it was only slightly more powerful than the plain NPs so I am looking for another Titan right now.
Very glad to hear you are ok Bro so keep us updated and I looked for your post on the current blog but did not see it yet so I will check in a little while.
Welcome back.
BD
NP at full throttle for sure! Got it on my collarbone and took 14.34 ft lbs dead on it. It’s still bruised and tender I’ll have to break out one of my other guns if I find time and weather tomorrow.
Reb
You got to find a way to prop the but of the regal against something instead of you shoulder if it is going to hurt you like that.
That’s is what I don’t understand as it basically the same guns that I had with the venom and titan the GF1 has now but Gf1 said the regal has more recoil then the titan because like I said the actions are identical just different stocks. it does not compute.
BD
Gunfun
just tried to call Reb and the Verizon message says the phone number is either changed, out of service or disconnected so I am going to send a email and see if I get one back.
I hope that don’t mean something is wrong or has happened to him. I will let you know if I get an email back.
BD
Buldawg
I just answered down here.
Let me know if you hear from Reb.
And the x20s has a bit more recoil than the Vitamin. It was a regular spring and not the nitro piston version. Not bad built. Better trigger than the Crosman/Benjamin nitro guns also. But its been a few years back so don’t remember exactly.
And Yea I just sighted the Monsoon in. Its raining here to. And just shot my other guns and they are hitting on the money in the rain too so the Monsoon should be right.
Yea that’s weird about the rain. I have always shot some of my best groups in the rain. It is dead calm today but raining. Ain’t figured that one out yet.
Gunfun
Its the same way here and 65 degrees with no wind and a steady light rain and I got a rear sight put on my old benji silver streak that I got from Loren and shot it some but it needs either a new stronger hammer spring or a lighter valve spring because it is shooting like the Benji 392/397s that have been converted and sold at AoA where you pump 8 times and shoot then pump 3 and shoot and so on as I pumped it up eight time and can get two good shots and one that barely makes it out the barrel. Also shot the 1400 I got from him some to and it shoots good but needs some more work also.
I am just exploring all options right now as I wait to see if the guy with the Titan contacts me so just gathering info and I know the X20 are spring guns not gas guns but in the video on PA it looks like the gun barely moves in Rons hands and also on the Stoeger website it shows it being shot and it looks like very little recoil so maybe they have refined it some in the last couple of years.
Glad you are getting to shoot the monsoon some before you go back to work Monday and I will let you know if I hear from Reb as I sent him a email so will see if I get one back.
Yes it funny how the rain does not seem to hurt the accuracy at all as I would think a drop of water hitting the pellet would knock it of trajectory depending on the size of the drop but it does not seem to matter.
BD
Buldawg
I have shot in some heavier rain. In other words it wasn’t a mist or drizzle. It was coming down fairly good.
I don’t know why the rain wouldn’t do something yo the pellets flight. Other than the weight ,power and shape is over powering the rain.
Maybe the rain drops are spaced in away that the pellet flight is so short that it may not hit a rain drop????
Gunfun
Got to go to the bottom as there is no reply button
BD
BD,
Now you can reply to me. No, I do not have much experience sproingers at all, gas or metal. My first air rifle was a Gamo CFX. I shot it almost exclusively for about two years and then sold it and bought a FWB 601. Most of what I have messed with since has been 10 meter rifles and pistols.
I picked up my 1906 BSA back in the fall of 2013 and now it has me wanting a .22 sproinger rifle. I am wanting a little more power at longer range. The tree rats are all over the place here and it has been a long time since I have had me a pot of squirrel gravy.
I would prefer one of the German rifles, but right now the wallet says I should settle for something a little less expensive. We’ll see. I have not bought anything yet. I really have a hard time buying one of the cheaper sproingers because I know I am not going to be happy with it. I know that at the very least I am going to have to fix the trigger on it. After pulling 10 meter triggers most of the time, everything else is doodly. My Edge trigger is not quite that of a FWB yet, but it is getting close. It has a very light, very short first stage and crisply breaks at less than one pound and has almost no over travel. 🙂 Now if I can just get the side to side wobble out of it I will be ecstatic.
I like what I have been hearing about the .22 X20S with the exception of the trigger. The ATAC on the other hand is a scope breaker. They are the same sproinger with the exception that the ATAC has a gas sproing and a different stock, which I happen to like the looks of.
I thought that if I wanted something to tinker with, maybe I could pick up the X20S, fix the trigger and then later see if the Hatsan gas sproing would fit. That way I could tune it up or down as needed for the best performance.
RR
Yea I got ahead of my mind again and thought I was replying to you not GF1 so he got me. I was very uninterested in a break barrel or fixed barrel spring gun about a year ago when I got my old 1400 out of the closet and dusted it off and lubed it and shot it some and got the air gun bug. I had decided to try the PCP guns out and bought a XC60C from Mike Melick for 100 bucks and 140 for the hand pump and shot it till the valve seal went bad and was looking thru gun broker and found my firepower spring break barrel for 20 buck plus 20 shipping so I took a chance and bought it and was totally amazed at how smooth its shot cycle was and played with the trigger to get it half way decent. The gun was very accurate and way smoother than I thought it wood be so I took another chance and bought the Benjamin Titan in 22 off gun broker for 80 bucks with 20 shipping and it shot exactly the same as the firepower so I was hooked and got a venom from gun broker for under 100 bucks including shipping so all three break barrels one coil spring gun and two nitros all shoot exactly the same and are quite accurate out to 50 yards with sub 1 inch groups being the norm. GF1 has the Titan now in the venom stock which his neighbor has on lease.
Then after buying those three used I gunsI bought a Gamo whisper from the Sportsman Guide for 100 bucks new and it was the most horrible shooting spring gun I have ever shot ( not that I have shot a lot ) but it was just so cheap feeling and reminded me of a kids toy gun and had so much spring noise and twang that I sold it right away.
So if I had bought a Gamo first I would not have the other spring guns at all as it would have turned off and away from them all together so I am glad I got to shoot a good one first.
We have one of the two CMP ranges right here in town and that is where I used to go to sight in my pump guns and the 853 that I have since they use an electronic scoring system that allows you to sight into hit the size of a 177 pellet easily as in putting them all in one hole. but you cannot shoot any gun over 600 fps there as it will destroy their pellet catch bottles so my PCPs are not allowed.
I Myself do not like the looks of the ATAC with that huge cut out on the underside of the stock it just looks like a buck rogers space gun or something as I see no purpose for it. I don’t know what type of gas or air spring they use in their guns but I do know that the Hatsan is a compressed air spring as I an putting one in my firepower to make a FT gun with it.
If you have not tried the bearing trick on the gamo and crosman triggers that take the GRTIII trigger then you need to because to me its better than the GRTIII ever could be as I have two of them and could not get them to feel as good as the bearing trigger does, but I will agree that they will never be a target trigger or any where near the trigger in my Mrod as well.
I will let all of you know how my hatsan spring conversion goes in the crosman clone firepower when I get it done as the large rear end of the Hatsan spring has to turned down by around .060″ to fit inside the chamber of the crosman guns and will also need the rear end milled off to a flat end to sit against the rear plug in the chamber.
BD
B.B.,
I honestly did not think you would have trouble getting 1″ groups with just about any premium pellet that you tried. So, overall I am surprised and a little disappointed by these results.
This test also highlights a phenomena I have encountered that baffles the heck out of me. I have never had the Crosman Premium lights be the best pellet in any gun I have ever shot while you (I think) have never had the JSB Exacts 8.44gr pellets to be the best in any gun you have shot.
This one completely baffles me. Further, I have never had the JSBs shoot this poorly. I can’t figure it out. To conclude. I think that unless the Premier Lites shoot this well every time the jury is still out on this gun as being F.T. or Benchrest worthy.
Time will tell. By the way, thank you for trying the JSBs. But I find the results disappointing if not outright troubling. That goes for all the pellets shot. Believe me, I am really pulling for this rifle. I desperately want a springer that consistently outperforms any springer currently on the market. But I guess the search goes on. As you forecast yesterday. You had a big surprise for us today.
G&G
G&G,
First, they are Crosman PREMIER pellets. If you search for them as Premium, you will not find them.
Second, I only shoot the ones in the cardboard box. Are those the ones you use, or do you use the different ones in the tins. While they are cheaper, I cannot guarantee they are as uniform.
Third, this was not to9day’s surprise. Read below.
B.B.
B.B.,
The Premium thing was just a brain skip. I have many Boxes of Premier pellets. They were the best pellet in a couple of my rifles before I discovered JSB 8.44s.
I think RidgeRunner may have hit the nail on the head. I completely overlooked the cold factor. 20 degrees? I would never try to shoot in that temp. I simply couldn’t do it. I’ll read on for the surprise. I am just now getting on the blog and wrote this first before reading past RidgeRunner.
G&G
G&G,
I myself have not had that great a result using JSB Exacts. It was the second best pellet for my Gamo CFX.
Now as for how large these groups are, a couple of factors may be coming into play. The cold may be affecting the sproinger some and I well bet you BB was not as comfortable as he would have liked. The LGU may not care for that rest setup, especially when you are shooting long range. None of these pellets may be “the pellet” for this particular air rifle.
But one of the biggest factors that will come into play is how much time you spend with a particular air rifle. When I owned my Gamo CFX, it was the only air rifle I had. I spent a lot of time with that one air rifle and learned how to get the absolute best out of it. That is why I will never own very many airguns.
BB does not have that luxury. I am sure that if BB spent about a week or two with this air rifle, he would not only find “the pellet”, but you would likely see some astounding performance out of this thing. I am sure that you have spent quite a bit of time behind that Rapid.
RidgeRunner,
Very good point you made on owning too many guns. Better to be master of one, then master of none. Something to keep in mind when looking for that next “fix”.
No worries (yet) here though. Neither too many, or master of any.
I am slowly buying, selling and trading my way up the quality airgun level. At the moment I have four air rifles and one air pistol.
My air pistol is an Izzy 46M. I would like have to pay twice what this costs to get better. I would like to pick up a Lincoln Jefferies in working order though to go with my 1906 BSA. 🙂
Besides the BSA, I have an Edge, a Talon SS and a FWB 300. Both the SS and the FWB are torn down being rebuilt right now. When I finish the FWB, I will sell it and I may sell the SS, but that will likely not be in the near future. I might even end up selling the Edge.
I would like to end up with a nice sproinger in .22 and a nice PCP in either .25 or .357. With my BSA and my Izzy, I think I would have just about any airgun desire I would have covered.
I will likely still buy, sell and trade when the right deals come along, but I just cannot see me with a closet full of them.
RidgeRunner,
I think you are right about the cold. I could never shoot in those conditions. I had overlooked that factor. Also, you’re right that B.B. hasn’t had nearly enough time with this rifle
Regarding time spent with a gun. You are right about the time I have spent with the R.A.W. However, I have spent that kind of time with a number of my guns. In Competition shooting some of the Gun Classes require a completely different gun. Obvious examples are the Light and Heavy Varmint Classes and the Springer Class. Also, wind conditions will determine which caliber I shoot at 50 yards. For that reason I have to be equally proficient with at least 5 rifles. It is possible.
I would say that maybe one of the reasons that the JSB 8.44s did not perform well is that this rifle is a springer but the fact is that is the best pellet in my LGV. In addition, one or the other of the JSB pellets is the best in 90% of the rifles I own. I have no idea why, that’s just the way it is. It’s completely different with my handguns of course.
G&G
My CFX liked H&N FTT in 4.52mm but would not group worth a doodley with 4.51mm.
It is quite possible to be proficient with several, but difficult to just pick one up and be proficient with it. BB does remarkably well for an old geezer freezing his keesters off trying to shoot a gun he is really unfamiliar with. 😉
RidgeRunner,
In all likelihood the head diameter is a very plausible reason for the disparity. I don’t remember the head diameter of Premier Lites but one thing I have noted is that they usually are an extremely snug fit at the breech.
As far as picking up a new gun for the first time and shooting it I am quite certain B.B. is considerably better than I at that. Again, I couldn’t even shoot my R.A.W. in those temps. That took extreme dedication on his part.
G&G
I have and do on occasion shoot when it is that cold and I am also thought to be insane. I live back in the hills and if you want to shoot in the winter, it is usually pretty cold. I do not have such an understanding wife who well let me shoot indoors.
RidgeRunner,
I sympathize, my wife would no more let me shoot inside than she would let me buy a Lamborghini. I have tried the shooting from inside of the garage bit. Only problem with that is I can only get to 30 yards that way. But it beats the heck out of nothing.
Although as a kid in PA. I loved playing outside in the snow. We kids would leave in the morning and not go home till supper time. I remember being frozen stiff by then. Living in Fla. and getting older has killed that particular pastime.
G&G
I might have to give the garage a try this winter. I could probably set up a clear shooting range out to 100 yards if I need such. I would still have to bundle up these old, tired bones though.
B.B.,
Nice report. The very first thing that hit me was “frozen” range. I thought springers were not as good in cold due to piston lube stiffening at colder temps. And that gas pistons are better in cold. Maybe I missed something along the way. What temp was it when you tested? What impact, if any, do you feel the temp had on the test and would you expect different results in warmer temps.?
Temp. aside, you know I am new to the “scene”. It would seem that sub.1″ groups @ 50yds. are the “holy grail” for springers. It was comforting to see the TX held in such high regard in several comparisons.
Since you said that the LGU was Walther’s debut under lever and noted your progressions with the TX 1,2,3,…. I would expect to see a new and improved version in the future. If they got it this close the first time out, I would guess that equal or better than a TX won’t be far behind.
Chris,
The temp was below 20 degrees, F. While that isn’t cold in the rest of the USA, it is bitter here in Texas, where we are used to 40-60 degrees this time of year.
B.B.
BB,
A little hard to be at your best when it is that chilly out, is it not? Any lubricants inside that air rifle probably were not too happy either.
Chris USA
Steel spring vs all type of gas/nitro/etc spring vs cold can have harm done no matter what they say about them, best not to shoot if its too cold…
Chris in Ct
There was no where to reply above.
Tx’s are nice out of the box. But most anything can be made better if you try hard enough.
Is that what you mean. Can a TX be better. The answer is yes. I did.
Gunfun1
I was referring to you wanting to lighten(milling slots) the TX piston.
Chris in Ct
Yes the piston is the last thing I want to do.
I do believe it will reduce the little bit of forward recoil I have right now.
That’s all there is left that I want to do to it.
GF1,
I would advise extreme caution when it comes to lightening that TX piston. I recall comments of such on this blog in the past and it was not a good thing to do. If I recall correctly, it either made the shot cycle harsher or increased piston bounce.
It may have been BB that was telling me this, I am not sure anymore. I am not responsible for remembering details of events more than one week in the past.
RR
To late. I already got evidence that it works and does reduce recoil.
I did a exsperment at work the week before Christmas. And the forward bump was greatly reduced with the same piston after lightening it. And the air actually spiked higher pressure on the air gauge I used.
And I’m getting another piston to use so I will have my old unharmed piston yo put back in the TX.
Come on RR catch up to the times.
New days new ways. 🙂
B.B.
Is it possible, since the LGU is a springer, that the poor performance could have been caused, or at least affected by the low ambient temperature? I wonder how it would have performed with the H&N 10.34 Baracuda Hunter and Crosman 10.5 Premier Heavy, maybe better, maybe worse? The Crosman 10.5’s show promise in my RWS 48 at 50 yards, I will find out for certain this coming spring, once the weather gets better and much warmer!
In regards to the “bean bag” rest that is shown in the photograph, is this what you always use for your bench rest shooting? What brand is it?
Bugbuster
Bugbuster,
My bag rest was made by a guy in Montana who never made it in business. But you can buy something similar here:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=460914579
B.B.
B.B.,
What medium do you use in your bag rest?
Thanks for the link.
Bugbuster
BB,
Crushed walnut shells. Half the weight of sand and just as dense. Look for bedding material for reptiles at the pet store.
B.B.
Awesome timing on that one. I was just about to ask that very question. Going with the cut off jeans legs and zip ties. 3 for starters.
B.B.,
I must have vapor lock of the brain, I have at least one very large box of it downstairs which I used to use in my huge Dillion vibratory case cleaner which I haven’t used in over 18 years. Why didn’t I think of that? Actually, since you mentioned it, I now recall people using it as a medium for bags years ago, getting old really sucks!
I am still trying to locate a parts diagram and repair parts for an old Daisy model Powerline 922 air rifle. Could you point me in the right direction?
Bugbuster
BB,
Fred posted a link to a site that has Daisy manuals, but I found it very unuseful. I don”t know of a site for the 922 schematic.
Anyone?
B.B.
B.B.,
Tom, thanks for your help. I asked the same question on your blog several days ago with no response from anyone, apparently, it must not be a very popular model or not too many left in existence.
Bugbuster
Bugbuster,
Since JG is retired try these folks:
http://tmacsairgunservice.com
kevin
Kevin,
Kevin, thank you very much for your response, I greatly appreciate it! I will check out the inclosed website!
Bugbuster
Bugbuster,
I have seen several similar bags around. I think that design is becoming popular.
I have a similar setup that I made that works great. I have taken old jeans legs and made several bags from them about ten inches long and filled them with 1/8″ plastic pellets. I then strap two of them together like this bag is.
The denim allows the rifle to slide easily and the pellets shift inside the bags easily, allowing the sproinger to recoil as it desires.
RidgeRunner,
Thanks for the tip. I am sure that I could get the plastic pellets from McMaster Carr, where did you get yours?
While looking for something else a few days ago, I discovered a Butler Creek bikini lens cover in my collection of treasures (stuff). I am sure that it will fit on at least one of my scopes, if not several.
Bugbuster
I get the pellets from work. We manufacture polymer pelletizing equipment. We have a lab with several different systems set up for customer qualification, etc. We have a few drums of pellets sitting around.
Personally, I really like those covers. Like I said, once you fool with it some it is not an issue to slide it off when you need to.
RidgeRunner,
Ah, fringe benefits of the workplace, good deal.
Out of curiosity, what type of plastic was it, 1,2,3,4,5,6, or 7? Was it manufactured from recycled material or new components? In my neck of the woods, recycling is a sick joke! The only type of plastic accepted locally is 1 and 2, nothing else!
I am no tree hugger but I try to recycle as much as possible with the exception of paper. I would like to see these ultra environmentalists freeze in the dark on an empty stomach with clean lungs!
I am still waiting impatiently, I might add, for “Global Warming” to arrive, I am tired of these sub freezing temperatures! I want to get outside and shoot, in comfort.
Bugbuster
I really have no idea what those numbers stand for. The pellets I am using I believe are a polypropylene. It is a hard, smooth, almost translucent white.
I like to hug my trees. I also cut some down occasionally for fire wood. I also do not hunt, but that is because I am not hungry.
RidgeRunner,
If the pellets are polypropylene, that would be classified as a # 5 PP type of plastic.
I live in a rural area which encompasses 83 acres. I cut down a few live trees which become a threat or nuisance by growing too close to my house and outbuildings, mother nature drops a lot more than I do, both live and dead. I don’t hug any of them though.
Fracking is something else altogether, I believe that NO ONE should inject anything into the ground unless they are willing to drink it, regardless of how deep it is, especially in mass quantities.
Bugbuster
B.B.,
On the subject of post not showing up,..I posted a response to Gunfunn1 to his 3:34am today’s post. Yesterday I had one show up about 45 min. later. In the mean time I posted another one, so I ended up with 2 similar post to the same person.
I know you and Edith have your “plates full” and the last thing I want to do is create any more work for either of you. I know from some of Edith’s past comments that sometimes post go to spam and that you have filters in place.
Do I just wait and see? How much time should I wait? No big deal for a general comment, but if your into a good “back and forth-er”, the other person is going to be like,..”where did they go”.
You probably have covered questions like this many times in the past. I’m new(bie) so maybe a refresher would be good for the new year and newbies alike. Or, a link to a past article which I know for sure I read somewhere awhile back. Thank you, Chris
Chris USA,
Several of your posts go into the spam filter and have to be manually reported. Just be patient and they will be seen.
B.B.
Ahhh yes,… that greatly espoused virtue of “patience”. Sufficient to say that say that it is currently under heavy exercise at the moment. 😉 Thanks
Big surprise,
I was asked by the distributor to not announce the big surprise yet. So today’s post is not what I had promised.
Sorry, but it will come soon.
B.B.
One inch at 50 yards for a springer is a good group.
BB,
you do look cold there. Shooting in temps in the low 40’s quickly numbs my fingers making loading anything a real exercise. Now the question just popped into my head as to did the cold temps and the pellets’ passage through perhaps different thermal layers (for lack of a better description – what submariners refer to in ocean depths) of air (sun heated versus shade) affect the consistency of the pellets’ trajectory? Care to re-do the test another time when the temps are more user friendly?
Fred DPRoNJ
Fred,
A couple people have asked the same thing. I have shot springers in weather this cold before and it hasn’t changed their trajectory. But it bdoes work wonders on the optice! The scope was set to 15 yards to focus at 50! Field target shooters are familiar with temperature effects on optics, and Ray Apelles used to have three different range scales on his scopes for different temp ranges.
As for trying it again, I don’t know. I am so backed up with things I haven’t gotten to, plus things in-progress that I think it would be a couople months before I could get back to this one.
B.B.
I have to say this about scopes in different weather conditions and combined with air guns.
Here in the Midwest we can go from 25 degrees in the morning to 65 degrees in the afternoon depending on the time of the year.
I do notice that my poi will change from morning to afternoon if my gun is out in the weather the whole time. And that is with spring and nitro piston guns, pump and pcp. And I’m leaving Co2 guns out if the mix.
But it is a gradule change as the temperature changes. And it usually doesn’t affect my group size it just makes my poi shift a couple clicks of the turrets at the extreme account that I have ever seen.
But I will say this. That cold weather affects (me) when I’m shooting. I can’t hold the gun as steady when my teeth are chattering and I can’t feel my fingertips.
I’m use to the cold though and im hot blooded so it doesn’t affect me as much. But as I have got older I don’t endure the cold as well.
Buldawg called me crazy the other day when I told him it was 23 degrees out and I was Betti ready to go shoot. But it helps to have a nice warm breezeway to shoot out of when its cold. 🙂
Suppose to say (getting) ready to go shoot.
Not. I was(Betti)ready to go shoot.
I think one day I’m going to set this phone out at 50 yards and do some target practice.
Gunfun1,
Ain’t it funny how you see that stuff AFTER you post. I read mine several times and hit spell check and it still happens. I was about to ask you about the “Betti ready” thing. I like odd words and try to learn their background.
On loading the TX,….pellet seating…..must you press it flush or will the breech(?) finish the job? Also, have read that pellet seating depth can change results. This would of course be easier to do on a break barrel. Your thoughts?
Chris, USA
These phones agrivate the heck out of me. I had to have Edith delete my post in the past because it had words in it that I can’t even think of.
I know there are people that believe in pellet seating and others don’t.
I myself don’t deep seat. To me that’s one more thing I got to do the same everytime to be consistent in my shot. And another tool you have to carry and use all while your pest is running away.
I push the pellet with my thumb with a little pressure and be done with it.
Sorry
Should say push (flush) with my thumb and be done with it.
B.B.,
B.B., it makes sense. Think about it, aluminum alloys, which the vast majority of scopes are manufactured from today have a higher expansion/contraction ratio coefficient than steel and an average full size scope is 12-13 inches long. I can understand where a few thousandths of an inch +/- in length could cause this anomaly when subjected to extreme heat or cold. As you and I both know, in decades past, most all scopes were made of steel and adjustable objectives were not very common with the exception of high end target scopes. If my theory is correct, then an aluminum alloy scope with an AO should display a higher than actual range value when subjected to extreme heat.
Bugbuster
Its probably more chance that its the spring in the scope.
There is one spring that connects your windage and elevation turrets.
That spring does change as temperature changes.
Gunfun1,
Could you please explain your spring theory to me in a little more detail?
Bugbuster
Bugbuster
If there is tension on the spring it will relax or tighten up if it gets cold or hot. The single leaf spring in the one picture is what I’m talking about. See if this helps. Here’s a link to look at.
http://www.opticstalk.com/what-makes-swarovski-better_topic19469.html
Gunfun1,
I was referring to the yardage scale on the adjustable objective not matching the actual measured distance to the target. This is determined by the distance between the objective lens and the lenses within the erector tube assembly which also determine the magnification.
The leaf spring on the erector tube assembly has nothing to do with the AO, just windage and elevation. If it is faulty, only the POI will be effected. As I am sure you already know, the spring is positioned at 225 degrees which will put equal tension against the erector tube in relation to the elevation spindle at (0 degrees) and the windage spindle at (90 degrees) when the reticule is optically centered. Unless the spring is weak, defective, or has been damaged by operator malfunction, (turning the turret adjustments too far beyond their mechanical limits) and maintains a few ounces of pressure against the erector tube, temperature means nothing. One other caveat that would apply here would be if the scope tube had been damaged due to improper mounting procedures. Specifically, shimming (putting the tube on a bind) and over tightening of the rings (crimping the tube.
Bugbuster
Bugbuster
Oh I didn’t see where you meant yardage.
And sorry but I have seen poi change on guns. I do my best to keep my scope out of direct sun.
I have had a nitro piston rifle laying in the shade and the scope was exsposed to the direct sun light. The scope was warm and the gun was cool.
The poi did change as the scope cooked back down.
To explain why. Good question. Maybe its the combination of a bunch of things.
Oh and that scope wasn’t crushed at the tightening points. I learned that many moons ago.
All I can say is I know what I have seen in my experiences.
Gunfun1,
That I can understand. Aluminum alloy scope, rings and mount with a black matte finish more than likely, sitting in direct sunlight is going to absorb a great amount of heat. I will go out on a limb here and say that it was closer to hot than warm and various components expanded a few thousandths of an inch which would certainly change the POI. As I am certain that you are already aware of, it doesn’t take a lot!
I assume that you meant cooled rather than “cooked” in your fourth paragraph. Smart phones do not cause cause misspelled words any more than guns kill people, it’s your thumbs and fingers! Slow down a little bit guy, I am no typist either!
Everyone makes mistakes, I know I have made my share, anyone who says they haven’t either is a liar or has never done anything! You just have to learn from them. I have seen and done a lot in my lifetime also, I’m dragging 60 and pushing 70.
Also the link you sent erector tube springs was enlightening, I love to know how different things work. I have a 1st generation Springfield Armory Government Model range finding scope which is a 4-14X56 mm with a 30 mm tube and internal level. I believe that it has a broken or damaged erector tube spring.
Bugbuster
Bugbuster,
Smart phones can definitely cause misspelled words if you haven’t turned off “auto-correct” in your settings. I’ve rec’d some very strange and even risque texts from people because of auto-correct 🙂 I turned off mine long ago since I don’t make typos as bad/awful as what auto-correct does!
Edith
Bugbuster
Glad you liked the link about the scope.
And look no miss spelling.
😉
The aluminum tube of the scope was actually considerably longer due to heat expansion?
B.B.,
Your 0.988 inch, 10 shot group at 50 yards with Crosman Premier Lights is impressive.
I’m reading some comments today that lead me to believe these airgunners have not shot a springer at 50 yards even in 80 degree weather.
Looks like the targets you’re using have scoring bulls and sighting bulls. I assume this because the target shown in your picture shot with the cpl’s has the rings numbered and the other targets shot with other pellets don’t.
I’m wondering if you use the horizontal numbers (used to identify the rings on the bulls on sighting bulls) to overlay your horizontal crosshair to minimize cant when shooting. If so, would this have partially contributed to this great group you shot? If not, what technique do you use to minimize cant when shooting at black bulls at 50 yards?
kevin
Kevin
I was writing and replying while you were.
I agree with you. Its more me not being able to shoot good in the weather conditions.
The guns may change and the scopes may change but its usually gradule and not abruptly.
And usually the gun groups the same. Its more me making the group size change than the gun.
I think the more a person shoots the more they find that out.
I have been off for a little over two weeks for the holidays and shooting at least a hour or two everyday. I noticed one day could shoot the heck out of the guns then the next day couldn’t get good groups for nothing with the same weather conditions and shooting from a rest in the breezeway.
So come to find that I’m usually the problem and not the gun.
Kevin,
I do align the vertical reticle wire with the string of bulls on either side of the target. Can’t wait to see that UTG scope with the internal bubble level!
B.B.
B.B.,
Very clever alignment trick. You truly aren’t just another pretty face. I really mean that.
I’m also very anxious to see the leapers scope with the internal bubble level.
Haven’t been impressed with the other scopes that have built in bubble levels.
kevin
Kevin,
I haven’t been impressed with them either. I know about them, but the quality is so off-putting that I will not review them. Leapers has been working on their bubble level scope for 4 years now. I have seen two different prototypes, but they won’t let it out until they think it is perfect.
B.B.
B.B.,
While we’re on the subject of keeping track of new airgun products that may hit the market soon…..are you planning on attending the SHOT Show this year?
kevin
Kevin,
Oh, yes. We will even film a segment of American Airgunner there this year.
B.B.
B.B.,
The selfish airgunner in me is glad to read that you’re going to SHOT.
Not much of a break from your fast paced routine especially this year since you’ve committed to film a show. Change of scenery though 🙂
Take a real jacket. Las Vegas has been colder than Texas.
kevin
Kevin,
Jacket? We don’t need no stinkin’ jackets! 🙂
Hotel –> warm shuttle bus –> heated convention center –> warm shuttle bus –> hotel –> hot slot machines 🙂
Edith
Now there’s a good surprise, that is pushing to make a cooler, more functional product. Did you help design that Tom?
RDNA,
I proposed the idea to Leapers about 10 years ago and kept working on them until they agreed to make it. But I had nothing to do with the desgn, save for some suggestions of where to put the level.
B.B.
Hope it does well! I’m getting pretty lazy about canting here lately and need a finger shook right in my eye to make me do it right. I noticed I’d pulled the Pronghorn offa the Airmaster just before I left town and need to check if I also zeroed the irons but it was already dark.Hopefully I can devote at least 10-15 mins to this tomorrow.
Kevin,
You are absolutely right. That was an excellent group. I was discombobulated by the fact that all the other pellets shot 2″ groups. Although, I have never had any luck with Barracudas in anything. On the other hand, I have never seen JSB pellets shoot a 2″ group in either .177cal. or .22cal. in anything. Before today I would have said that was impossible.
As I have said several times today now, I give up trying to figure out why anyone gets the results they do with any given pellet. I think after today I will also give up recommending pellets to anyone. I’ll tell you what works best for me and that’s it. I will tell you today that Premier Lites are not the best pellet in any rifle I own. I own a lot of rifles.
G&G
G & G,
You said a mouthful.
kevin
Kevin,
I don’t know exactly what you mean. Feel free to explain.
G&G
You said, “..I will also give up recommending pellets to anyone. I’ll tell you what works best for me and that’s it.” A mouthful.
Kevin
Kevin,
Right or wrong it felt as though I was on the run all day Friday. A simple “these pellets stink” would have been enough without all the other embellishments. That’s ok though, I’ve learned my lesson.
G&G
Kevin,
Let me try to explain the method that I use. To begin with, I prefer to use targets with a maximum of 1″ grids on them which are heavy enough to be seen in the scope and intersect the bulls eye of the target. This serves two purposes, consistent, repeatable alignment of the crosshairs and a reference for scope adjustment. My 50 yard permanent range is a large, old, half dead oak tree which I can shoot from my back porch. I have a 2″X 6″ screwed into it which is level, in reference to the ground. So long as the top edge of the target is parallel to the top edge of the board, the target is pretty much square in both vertical and horizontal axes.
Thanks once again for your assistance concerning the Daisy Powerline 922.
Bugbuster
Bugbuster,
Sounds like your target type and mounting method helps to minimize cant. Good for you.
Hope those guys can help with your 922. To be clear, I’ve never done business with them but found information on the internet that they helped another airgunner get his 922 fixed and working properly. Good luck.
kevin
Reminds me a lot of the way I have my repurposed filing cabinet/ pellet trap set up with magnetic holders and sight-in targets -same cept different.
Reb
Did anyone reread B.B.’s 50yd test of the TX? He shot one .685″ group with Crosman Premier Heavy pellets all the others including another group shot with the Crosmans were over 1″. Can anyone really say B.B. would have done any better had it been the TX out at the 50yd range that morning?
David
Pa.oldman,
I agree. That took some real fortitude to say the least. I would be more of the Gunfun1 type and shoot from a warm breeze way with a cup of coffee nearby only to brave the cold when targets need changed.
Chris,
I now shoot from inside my garage but it is unheated. At least it is out of the wind. I am thinking about putting a space heater under my bench when it gets real cold though.
David
David.
I work second shift and get home late at night. Sometimes I feel like shooting when I get home.
I got one of those heater that got two burners that go on top of the BBQ grill propane tanks. I think its called a Mr.Heater. But that works nice.
And its about 12 yards or so that I can shoot.
But I’m with you that works out nice.
Hey Guys,
All this talk about shooting in the cold is making me cold sitting here in the kitchen. As I said to B.B. above, I simply could not shoot at 20 degrees.
To be completely honest, I live in Florida (used to live in PA.). I have grown so accustomed to warmer weather that I usually will not go out and shoot below 60 degrees. I am not kidding.
G&G
G&G
Buldawgs got that southern blood running through him too.
Seriously when I was a kid out running around in the woods hunting I would be out all day in 25 degree weather. I always have been hot blooded.
As I’m getting older I don’t do as good in the cold as I use to. But I can still go out for a few hours in a long sleeve flannel shirt in 30 degree weather as long as its calm out. I don’t like the wind when its cold.
Gunfun
I bet you will never hit as the Chinese make them smart phones so I bet it can dodge your pellets easily LOL. I mean they never speak English when texting so how do you think a lowly British air gun can hit a smart Chinese phone now you might do better with your LGU since it German and superior.
BD
Buldawg
Oh I’ll hit that phone believe me.
Especially now that I got a semi-auto Monsoon again.
🙂
Gunfun
if you shoot your phone then you have to spend fun money to but a new one.
BD
Buldawg
Yea but it will be worth it.
🙂
Gunfun
Just checked Hatsan and they make like 5 different models of the underlever guns that have wood or synthetic stocks and shoot either 800 in 22 cal or 1000 in 22 cal and the 22 cal 1000 fps gun on I foundd for 285 new so I need to see exactly which model the AoA has used for sale
BD
Buldawg
5 different models you say.
You better call them early tomorrow and talk to them.
That may just be a nice gun.
What are their hours for tomorrow? I think 9 am to 1pm.
Gunfun
They make 177, 22, 25 cals in wood or synthetic stocks and a synthetic thumbhole stock that I like a whole lot and you can get them in two different power levels also, so I am not sure which one that is and if it not the one I want I may buy new because I really like the thumbhole stock and I found it for 285 new with free shipping
BD
Buldawg
I’m ready to hit the sack. Can’t keep my eyes open.
Talk to you tomorrow about them.
Gunfun
That reply was supposed to be up where you said you were going to shoot your phone.
BD
Gunfun
yep you are right as I came from Florida 20 years ago to Alabama and my blood did get a little thicker but now with the blood thinner for my heart stents its like ice water and it don’t take long for icicles to form in my blood so I agree with G&G that if it is much below 50 degrees I will not be shooting because by the time I put enough clothes on to stay warm I cannot hold the gun or pull the trigger.
BD
Buldawg
I can see how a person could get use to the warm climate pretty easy.
But I don’t like when it gets in the 90’s anymore either. 70’s and 80’s would be perfect.
Gunfun
The thing about Florida is you need to live near the coast so you always have an ocean breeze blowing and it makes 90+ degrees feel much better, but it is still hot but you at least have wind blowing.
But yes 70 to 80 is perfect weather
I just got done watching some you tube videos an the 200S and most of them are not in English as it appears it has just been introduced to the states. But when they show the gun being shot you don’t really see any recoil and the two reviews I found to read state that the recoil is very light and that it is a pleasure to shoot.
So I need to call AoA about it and see what the total would be as it looks very promising
BD
Buldawg
Yea I found that to be a good way to find out how a air gun will be.
Search some videos of a gun your inrested in and keep a eye on the gun when they shoot it.
If its got good bump to it I will usually let that gun go and not get it.
But if I see a gun that has a little bump or none at all then I’m probably going to try to learn more about that gun before I decide to by it.
The recoil of the gun will tell you a story that’s for sure.
Gunfun
They make several different model of underlevers and they have 22s that shoot 800 fps and 1000 fps so I need to see which model the one that used is and I also found them new fro 250 to 285 depending on the model. So now I am thinking the 1000 fps one would be good for back yard plinking and hunting. But I just need to make up mind what I want to use it for and that is the hard part .
Any way I am going to wait till I see fi the seller for the titan contacts me by Monday.
BD
buldawg76,
You are right about thinner blood. I have heart failure and have had 2 open heart surgeries(9 bypasses) and numerous stents. Plus I have some serious peripheral artery disease in my legs and have had 2 operations for that and one stent. With the number of drugs I take I wouldn’t be surprised if my bloods like water. It does take much longer for a cut to heal than it used to.
But I’m not complaining. The good Lord has seen fit to supply me with the energy and desire to do all the things I want to do. I think my drive was partially responsible for my problems anyway but mostly it is hereditary. Good luck and God Bless.
G&G
G&G
I can only imagine as you have had way more issue than me in terms of heart problems. I will agree with you that the good Lord is obliviously not ready fro me either yet.
A Little less than two years ago I was still ten feet tall and invincible as far as my health was concerned as I wouild run 100 mph all day and night long and never get sick or feel tired until May of 2013 and all of a sudden it felt like someone threw out a boat anchor attached to me. I never had any chest pains or numbness in the left arm or jaw pain, non of the classic symptoms of heart issues.
Luckily My family doctor is very good at his job and listened to my complaint of being tired and exhausted all the time which was not the norm for me and sent me for more test after a chest X-ray and listening to my chest (I smoked for 45 years ) one of the test was a stress test and it showed issues with my heart, that was on a Monday . My wife has had heart issues for years and the doctor I went to for the stress test was not the wife’s heart doc, so I asked to refer me to him for the heart cath and saw him on that Wednesday and he scheduled me for the cath on Friday which he usually does not do them on Friday as he likes to discharge his own patients and he was not on call that weekend. After the cath when he put two stents in my LAD as it was 75 and 85 percent blocked in two places he told my wife that I was 3 days to a week away from a heart attack that I would not have survived. Then two months later I had another one put in my right coronary that was only 50 percent blocked at the first heart cath but our wonderful health insurance companies will not let a doctor put a stent in until it is at least 60 percent so when I went back the second time after having chest pains that would last 15 to 30 minutes at a time the right coronary was 65 to 70 percent blocked. so they paid 80 grand for my stents instead of 40 if they would have allowed him to stent it the first time.
So since then I have developed COPD, arthritis and many other issues that are mostly life style related as well as hereditary so I do know what you mean if it is to cold we just stay inside.
It appears though that you have dealt with much more heart issues than me for sure.
I am not complaining either as I have lived like every day was my last and have gotten the most out of every day I have lived, but now it just takes longer to get all that out of every day and my day is out there but it is not today.
Good luck and GOD bless to you also.
BD
I know what you mean there! With the neuropathy from all the nerve damage and the blood thinners I had to buy an electric blanket for my feet and when they’re not in it I’m like an icicle.
Cuttin’ into my PT time!
Reb
Reb
Still glad to see you are back in business man.
I do know what you mean about the cold but my feet have never been the issue with me as they usually do not get cold and are most always warm , its either that or I have no feeling in them so I don’t know they are cold. the only time they have actually got cold was one time here in Alabama when I was out deer hunting 15 years ago with a friend and it was 10 degrees outside and we were sitting for well over two hours and they did get cold a little bit then, but I have an old pair of wolverine boots that I wear when out in the cold and they work very well to keep my feet warm even in below freezing weather on a bike at 70 plus mph for hundreds of miles.
It is always my upper torso that determines how long I can endure the cold as once it get to my arms and hands I am done.
I like the heart of Dixie but only wish the winter would not last as long as it does cut into my PT also and this week I think it will affect most everyone’s except maybe Florida, but then it will still get cold there and having lived there for 25 years I can say when its below 50 degrees it is cold to a Floridian.
Good to have you back.
BD
BD & Reb,
Cold feet? Get battery-heated socks. I had a pair in Maryland, and they work very well 🙂
Edith
Edith
thanks for the link to the heated socks and we also had them when a Harley for the riders although they were powered by the bikes electrical system.
They would probably do Reb quite a lot of good, but as I said I very seldom get cold feet unless it is well below freezing and I am sitting still so that my bodies heat is not working like it does when you are active. But I will not be outside in those kind of temps now as with the blood thinners I am on my upper body gets cold first and dictates how long I can endure it not my feet.
BD
I’ll be relocating again after I get my life back together. I’m looking for sun,sand and warm and where my blood pressure meds are legal 😉 .
I bought a smart phone to keep in touch with but using it has been a challenge and here I have no service so that’s something I have to fix tomorrow, hopefully before I’m back in a hosp. bed 🙂
Reb
Sounds like you need to move to south Florida where it only gets below 50 degrees for maybe a week out of the year and then its only overnight as once the sun comes up it warms up fast.
Not sure what meds you are on that are not legal but we can discuss that over the phone and I do know about learning to use a smart phone as I have an IPhone 5 and it took, me a while to learn to use it, but then I only talk, text and take pics with mine . I do not use it for emails and do not do social media at all on any device as I don’t trust my info floating around for everyone to see. So I really don’t need a smart phone but my old flip phone finally died after 15 years so I got the iPhone on a deal but I still only use it as a phone and nothing else.
Call me when you have service back so we can talk some ok
BD
I’ve had most of my neuropathy since ’94 before I moved to Austin which helped but we still caught a few blizzards and I was already riding in ’em again. Unless I can find something small and light like my old KE100 I don’t really see me riding again. even the vibrations from coasting on my bicycle have a tendency to send my left leg into uncontrollable spasms.
Rerb
I understand not being able to ride as my arthritis has my hands to point the clutch on my Harley is more than I can squeeze for more than a few miles so its not easily ridden, but my kawis clutch is much lighter so I can use it but then the throttle is a 1/4 turn racing throttle and with the way my hands shake at time it is like riding a bucking bronco at time as with the 1.4 turn throttle a very small movement of the throttle provides a great deal of acceleration. I can still ride my bicycle but my stamina sucks and I am lucky to get 1/2 mile before I have to stop and catch my breath and let my legs rest as the muscle get to burning in my legs and also cramp .
BD
Chris, USA
Hmm maybe that’s what I need to do next.
Set me up a pull string on a pulley so I can change my targets with out even going outside.
🙂
Haha, gun range clothesline style? Nice, that would make a better shootin winter! I have up to 20′ ft approximately inside and no available in to outdoor that’s not crossing a public way so no go, friends house or hut the trail, both are not going to be warm for a ling time. There is an indoor airgun shooting range in Hudson ma that is non-lead only though and a ways away, but they have a walk in store supposed to have nice guns so I’ll have to go check it our some time.
RDNA
That shooting range sounds cool.
Paul even uses a drill for retrieval.
You will have to excuse me for a few. Pakmail called and they have “something” for me.
Chris, USA
Could it be your new TX? 🙂
They say my FX Monsoon is on the truck for delivery today. Finally getting here. Been waiting for it since a couple days before Christmas. Man all them days off I had and could of been shooting it.
Monsoon season at the gunny’s house! Awesome! Fx really catches my eye, Im Swedish, so definite keep the updates going, especially on shots per fill and magazine characteristics.
RDNA
Oh Yea. Pellets gonna be fly’n tomorrow rain or shine.
🙂
BB wish you would have shot the rifle in better conditions. hard to concentrate when freezing. My LGU shoots into a .25 at 50 yds with the JB 8.4 and the benjamin shockey HP’s which I think are CPHP are second best. When I was shooting it at 50 yds I watched the hole getting a little bigger and me and my friend were stunned. my rifle defies the laws of physics being no screws get loose or scope mounts not that picky on the hold either. I could have a better rifle and shoots as good if not better then my PCP’s
Mr. Meaner,
Hang onto that rifle!
B.B.
Mr Meener
My .22 cal. LGU is the same. It makes me smile everytime I shoot it.
Buldawg asked me the other day if I was going to tune it. I said no it just shoots to good. Its got a slight bump to it when it fires.
And I can hold the gun any way I want. Artillery hold, or hold it tight it don’t matter. Wherever I point the gun it hits.
Im thining the heard myself. Trying to end up with quality guns that shoot good without thinking about how to make them shoot.
I got two synthetic stock Marauders one in .177 cal. and one in .25 caliber. Then the tuned .177 TX and the .22 cal. LGU.
Now I finally got another FX Monsoon coming today. Yep another. I sold my first one thinking that I would get a Evanix Speed thinking it would be faster than the Monsoon. Nope the FX Monsoon was way better in quality and workmanship and was much quieter and much faster cycling also. And the Monsoon was more accurate even. So that’s why another Monsoon.
So if a person finds the guns their happy with they better hold on to it. You might not find another one like it or that shoots like it.
gun fun I would have loved to get the LGU in 22 being my swollen mauled fingers have a hard time with 177 pellets but it seemed a little slow for me. no t speed fanatic but I figured 650 fps might seem like lobbing the pellets. what do you get? No one will touch my rifle and glad yours is as good as mine
Mr Meener
I actually preffer .177 caliber for their flatter trajectory. But all PA had at the time was the. 22 cal. model in stock. And I got a bunch of JSB 15.89 pellets so .22 caliber it was.
And they got the .22 cal. listed at 593 fps which that’s what mine was getting right at a average of about 600 fps right out of the box. Its now shooting at around 615 fps.
I have already taken several starling out at 50 plus yards. And not a flutter of a wing when they got hit. And also a head shot at exactly 50 yards on a squirrel that was messing with the song bird feeder. He spun around a 180 when it hit him and only a few leg twitches and he was done.
Its making power. I posted some pictures of some of the pellets that hit my pellet stop at 50 yards and the LGU was making them as flat as a pancake.
And as far as lobbing goes. Yep one on top the other almost at 50 yards. And I posted pictures of a group from the LGU also. But it still enough of a lob to get the job done. 🙂
Gunfun1,
I have forgotten. What are the best pellets in your LGU?
G&G
G&G
The JSB 15.89’s have been the best. My old Monsoon liked them the best also.
Now hopefully my new Monsoon that is suppose to be here today will like them as well.
GunFun1,
Based on my experience with JSBs your Monsoon will like them very much. However, make sure you try the 18.13 grain pellets. I started out with the 15.89s in my Royale 400 but the 18.13s turned out to be just a hair better. This is at high power.
G&G
G&G
Remember I already owned a Monsoon a little while back.
And the 15.89 JSB’s did shoot the best in it. And I did try those 18 grn JSB’s also in it. It did about the same so I just stuck with the 15.89’s because my other guns with a little less power could shoot them also.
And what has to be watched with the Monsoon is it uses the wasted air from the shot and cycles the bolt.
As your fill pressure gets low the heavier the pellet is. It will not have enough air for the bolt to cycle. So you loose shot count per fill with a heavier pellet.
The Monsoon is definatly a gun that you have to learn fill pressure and pellet weight to make the gun function smooth and economical. Its not a beginners pcp gun by any means.
Mr Meener,
In all of my .177s that is the order of best pellet for me. JSB 8.44s first, Premier Lites second. That includes springers and PCPs. I don’t believe B.B. has ever had any luck with JSBs. Who knows why. I give up trying to figure it out.
G&G
Probably because jsbs get enough good press without him always making them dot the I, other pellets would go out of business! What do I know, Im just a conspiracy theorist… 😉
GG would you believe the LGU is the first 177 that likes the JSB’s. of the ones I own. they are cheaper guns then the LGU. One thing with my LGU it does not like heavy pellets it actually sprays them. In my 22 PCP’s a disco and AT 44 the CPUM’s are the best in both
Mr Meener,
Again, I have no explanation or idea why that is. All of my best PCPs shoot the best with JSBs. In fact, these came from three different distributors and everyone one of them came with sample targets that were all shot with JSBs. The purpose of the sample targets is to demonstrate how well the rifle shoots and all three of the distributors recommended JSBs. In addition, these rifles are comprised of 3 different calibers and four different manufacturers.
To summarize, 3 calibers, four rifles by four different manufacturers and three different sellers and all recommended JSBs which indeed turned out to be the best pellet when I shot them to determine the best pellet. That’s one heck of an endorsement and can’t possibly be a coincidence. I have nothing else to say about that.
However, I am not recommending JSBs as every gun has to be tested to determine the best pellet for that gun. I think that after today I would expect different people will end up preferring different pellets even if they are all shooting the same rifle from the same production run. And, that is absolutely fine. Nothing wrong about that at all. That seems to be today’s lesson for me. I’ve learned it well.
G&G
I had a BT 65 22 that loved the JSB exacts and a AT 44 long 22 that liked H&N the best followed real close by the JSB’s but the LGU is the first 177 I shot where the JSB’s without sorting cleaning or lubing are accurate beyond belief
Happy New Year BB, Gunfun, Buldawg, Kevin and all the other contributors out there. Your input has been of great value and interest to me this past year.
BB the suspense is killing me! Living here on the left coast I frequently read your posts the evening before. When I saw the title last night I figured there must be some delay, I figured that regardless how good the LGU grouped you would not have known those results for the length of time we have been waiting. Any idea when you well be allowed to “spill the beans”
Mark T
Happy New Year to you also.
And thanks. 🙂
Mark T,
Happy New Year to you.
I believe the announcement will be in Monday’s blog.
B.B.
Good shooting B.B.
For some reason jsb exacts never have worked as well in my rifles. Barakudas FTTS and Crosman premier lites and heavies all seem to have worked well for me. Do Walther barrels improve with the lead lapping that occurs with use? Nice to see a new precision spring design.
Mister Rob,
I give up on why one pellet works for one person and it doesn’t work for someone else with the same gun.
As for me, as I said above, one or another of the JSB pellets is the best one in 90% of the rifles I own. Go figure.
G&G
Mister Rob,
I have never had any success with 8.44-grain JSB Exacts. The 10.3 and RS usually do very well in most guns, but the 8.44’s don’t shoot for me..
Pellets don’t really lap a barrel like firearm bullets do. Some airguns have gotten over a million shots with pellets and they are still shooting well, so the wear rate is too low to mention.
B.B.
The LGU calls to me, something about it’s lines and shape – beautiful. I’m a big fan of under lever rifles, and having a self contained rifle in the field as opposed to my PCPs. I always feel I have a limit on field shooting with my PCP’s, as good as they are. A self contained rifle has no such limit.
Any of you ever see “Man vs Food”?….You know when he takes a bite of something really awesome… and he pauses for a moment…his eyes roll back…let’s out a little snicker of a laugh…the head goes down and back up as he gives a sideways grin at the camera…then holds out his hand and says…..” Excuse me,.. you guys at home are going to have to give me a moment here”.
Well,.. yeah,..it’s that good! Back in a few.
Chris, USA
Ha ha. I like when that happens. Hopefully I get that same feeling here in a minute when that Monsoon gets here.
I’m still patiently waiting. Come on UPS guy. Its suppose to be today!
I’ll buy the TX200 instead of this LGU because it is more quiet for backyard shooting.
Joe
I got to tell you this real quick.
The TX I have before I tuned it was quiet as far as the report goes. Now every aspect of the TX is quiet after the tune.
The LGU is also a very quiet gun as far as report goes. I say that it is equal to the TX. And the LGU overall is quiet also.
Just thought I would throw that out at ya. You know to help with some extra info to help make a tuff decision…well a little harder. 🙂
Gunfun1,
Thank you for your insight. If the LGU is quiet like you said, why in Pyramydair website did they rate the LGU loudness = 3? It should be a 2 like the TX200. Also, I was told the TX200 barrel has a sound suppressor and the LGU don’t.
Joe
Here is the Pyramyd AIR page on the TX. It says the TX is a 3. Check it out.
/product/air-arms-tx200-mkiii-air-rifle?m=174
Gunfun1,
Thanks, I guess they are both too loud for backyard shooting. I thought the TX is more quiet because of the sound suppressor in barrel.
Joe
One of my big criteria for a air gun is how quiet it is. That’s one of the first things I check if I’m going to purchase a air gun. Not that I’m worried if somebody hears me. But of course that has its pluses if you don’t disturb the neighborhood. Its so I don’t spook every song bird off while I’m eliminating a few starlings that will overtake the yard. The silly things will come right back after I shoot and sometimes they don’t even fly after a shot. But they wont let the other birds have a chance.
My LGU and TX are just as quiet or more quiet than my Marauders. So for me to say the TX and LGU are quiet. They are believe me. And should be back yard friendly of course unless you don’t have a fence and your backyard backs up to the local police departments back door.
Gunfun1,
Thanks for providing a point of reference, I KNOW the Marauders is very quiet so the TX and LGU is backyard friendly enough for me. BUT why Pyramdy rated them a 3 in loudness?
Joe
I Don’t know.
Good evening all,
Well, the TX200III is everything you guys said it would be. For those of you that don’t know, this is my first serious air rifle. With the help of all the regulars here, and a ton of “newbie” questions from me, I decided on the .22, left, walnut. The finish is beautifull, the grain nice…with some character, the wood carving flawless and the bluing deep.
I’m about half way through all the little books you get with everything but have managed to solidly put on the one piece scope mount with stop pin secured and mount the scope ever so loosely in the rings. Reticle is adjusted and even played with the E-Z tap light system a little. Even got the 80mm. wheel mounted. ( side A.O. adj. is very stiff so I’m glad I got that) Plus,…it looks so darn cool! 🙂
I’ll save the rest for tomorrow and read all the little books some more and maybe check out the Air Gun Bluebook a little.
Thanks to all that helped get me here in just a couple of months. 2 months ago I would not have known my A.O. from a hole in the ground. 😉
Chris, USA
Good glad you got it. Man how can you wait to shoot it.
Soon as my Monsoon gets here I don’t care what time it is. The scopes going on it and I’m shooting it. Even if I had one before.
Gunfun1,
How can I wait to shoot it you ask?…..I’m a newbie and a 50+ year old one at that. My days of slapping things together and reading the instructions days later are over. I know better now.
The pellets were packed very nice from P.A. You would have thought each package contained an antique pocket watch or something.
Chris, USA
Ok I’ll give you the +1 on that. For sure get it done right.
And Pyramyd AIR is the only place I order my pellets from for exactly the reason you just said. The way they pack them.
I handle my pellets like each one is a special little jewel. I’m very careful with my pellets.
Well I’m off to get the scope on the Monsoon. Talk later.
Gunfunn1,
And just when you thought you rid of me.. 😉 What’s a “Monsoon”. A pretty good search of the P.A. website turned up nothing. I’d say post a picture, but from our comments way up top….???
Chris, USA
The FX Monsoon is a semi-auto pcp gun. They’re are made in Sweden. They have a unique barrel design called the ” Smooth Twist”. The barrel is a smooth bore and the last 2″ or so of the barrel has the rifling in it at the muzzle end.
I can’t post a link of the company that sells them because they are in direct competition with Pyramyd AIR. But if you do a google search or whatever you use you will find them.
Search FX Monsoon and all kind of stuff will come up.
Also search you tube and you will find plenty of videos on them also.
And trust me Photo bucket is used by many people on the blog. Leave a direct reply to Edith and she will I’m sure let you know about photo bucket. If the website was not good do you think BB or Edith would let me talk about it.
Gunfunn1,
Just looked up the Monsoon, cool looking rifle. Is yours wood or syn.? One thought that just occured to me was that PCP air guns would be good for city dwellers due to the noise,..or lack there of. Time to play. Later.
Chris, USA
I prefer a wood stock on a gun just because I think that adds to a guns character.
But both of my Marauders are synthetic and the first Monsoon I had along with this one is synthetic. The only reason for that is these guns will see action in the woods and on rocks and such. Its to easy to beat a wood stock up when I get out in the woods playing.
My wood stock guns I’m very picky about. I shine and polish them every time I finish shooting them.
And don’t be fooled by thinking all pcp’s are quiet. You have shrouded and un-shrouded pcp guns. And depending on the gun, a pcp gun can be very loud if its not shrouded. And on the other hand with a shroud can be very quiet.
And usually spring guns ain’t shrouded but tend to be a little quieter than a un-shrouded pcp gun. And shrouded spring guns are usually pretty quiet.
Monsoons here. Scope going on now.
Chris, USA,
That is exciting! It is a beautiful rifle and a wonderful shooter. Good luck and have a great time. I know you will.
G&G
Chris USA,
I’m so glad to hear that you like your TX200. In all my years and dozens of people getting that rifle I believe I have only heard of one person who did not like it.
You have a long relationship ahead of you .
B.B.
B.B.,
And not to leave you out by any stretch. For without you and Edith, none of this would be possible.
I could go on and on,..but I won’t.
I’ll just leave it at a BIG thank you!
Sincerely, Chris
Happy New Years Airgunners
I have been following BB’s progress reports on this Walther LGU .177cal since the beginning. One needs only look at the history of Walther’s spring piston guns to have predicted this gun would be a worthy competitor to the TX200, or any other such model. Such as the Weihrauch HW77/97. And this is what surprises me. Where are the legions of Weihrauch HW77/97 fans adding their two cents to the mix? As no doubt some will know, I am a big Weihrauch supporter. I recently purchased the new re-stocked HW77 in .177, and .22 cal. I like to break all my guns down when I receive them, and do my own cleaning, and lubricating. Foe example, my .22cal HW77, was completely dry upon opening. Just a smidgen of grease on the piston seal. After a bit of TLC, it will put .22cal 5.54 H+N FTT pellets in 1/2-3/4 inch groups at 25 meters. I have no way of shooting further at present. With its new ambidextrous stock, proven Record trigger, and smooth shooting characteristics, I would put it alongside any TX200, or LGU. Lest we forget, it was the original dedicated Field Target champion for a number of years, and the gun the TX200 was modelled after. Just had to add my three cheers for the gun that was responsible for so many of todays wonderful imitators. And imitation is always the best form of flattery.
Ciao
Titus
Hello Titus.
Never seen or shot a tx or a Lgu…..yet.
I really do like my Beeman hw97. It was my consolation for selling my ’67 mustang in the ’95. It’s no hot rod but it is smooth and quiet and shoots 45yd one inch groups easily. Its the rifle that has gotten the most playtime. Maybe now is a good time to score a really great secondhand 77 or 97 from those hankering for an upgrade!
I will have to try those heavy Jsbs soon.
BB,
Good for you for going to the range in the cold! I took my grandkids shooting on a ranch in Colorado on Saturday.
It was -5degrees with a light wind blowing. We had to spend a lot of time in the truck!
Amber shot her pink Red Ryder clone. Melanie shot her 760.
Nicky shot his new Ruger American .22 mag. bolt-action rifle, and I shot my new Henry .22.
I told then how I used to go fox hunting in Minnesota on sunny below zero days. Snow camouflage and buried in a snow drift.
It brought back many pleasant memories.
Les
Les,
Where were you shooting in Colorado? Are you still in Colorado?
kevin
Kevin,
We were shooting on a ranch on the South Platte River near Ovid. We were about 200 yards from the river itself. Ovid is south of Julesburg Colorado.
I am living in Ogallala, NE, also on the South Platte. The ranch is about 40 miles southwest of here.
It seems I could take the cold better when I was young.
Les
Les,
You’re about 2 1/2 hours east of me. Years ago I hunted pheasants around Julesburg. Don’t think I’ve ever been to Ovid.
Wind blows out there and it does get cold.
Hope you enjoy your stay in Colorado.
Happy New Year to you.
kevin
Maybe we can get together some time.
I am the rangemaster at the rifle range here.
Wish it would warm up.
What is your town?
(Greeley?)
Les
Les,
I’m in wheat Ridge. Would be nice to get together when it warms up.
kevin
GF1
Wife got the new Stang. Has not put it in a corn field yet.
twotalon
TT
Cool what’s it got in it?
And why would you say cornfields?
Does that happen with Mustangs?
😉
GF1
5.0L 435 horse . 6 spd auto. Selectable operating modes for how it runs.
She barely missed getting nailed by a cop already.
The car is less radical than my Camaro in handling and throttle response when in “normal” driving mode . Very easy to drive. Probably why it has not gone into a field yet..
She likes the sound of the engine. She also likes how fast it exceeds the speed limit when she mashes the gas.
Did I ever tell you that wife is blonde dingbat ????? Wait until she drops the shifter into ‘”sport” by mistake .
twotalon
TT
Nice, now you got to race her new Mustang against the Camaro.
Your wife don’t read the blog does she?
GF1
No, she don’t go here.
twotalon
TT
Thats good.
Tell her to watch out for Soybeans as well.
Good to hear from you again!
Reb
Hey BB, I’m a little surprised at the lack of speculation regarding your big surprise. I’ll venture a guess, I am hoping for a PCP semi auto pistol of target comp. quality. Guess I’m hopping for a lot, but when dreaming, dream big:)
Mark T,
If the new item B.B. is going to tell us about is a gun and not something else I have only seen one new rifle that Pyramyd has listed on their site for a few weeks now that will not be available for a few more weeks. That is the Air Arms HFT 500. I have not seen or heard anything about it but I have not done a search for it in weeks either.
However, I really don’t think this is the surprise. There are plenty of newer rifles that B.B. has not talked about. One man can only do so much. I’m waiting as patiently as I can for the reveal. It must be exceptional and I too can hardly wait.
G&G
G & G
Happy New Year to you, Yea, I’m thinking it is gona be real special. Thankfully we have plenty of company during this misery of patience. I keep remembering the old cartoon of the two buzzards “Patience hell, I”m gona kill something!” I’ll continue to comfort myself by killing my target over and over again:) Thankfully they stand back up after I kill them.
Mark T
Or a smart phone that don’t know how to spell.
🙂
The cat has been scratching at the bag for a while,there’s a hole.He’s almost out
The crystal ball is not clear…I see two….wait a minute it looks like they are merging…Oh I don’t know;just trying to read the signs.-Tin Can Man-
Possibly the reveal of the BT- 65’s in .30 and .32 or so?
BB
That’s some good shooting, @ 50 yrds..
Gunfun1
You asked if there was a way to give gun a rating of recoil, well I just remembered that Steven Archer rates his gun something to that effect but explains it as shoot ability and rates 1to 5. Not sure if this could be standardized or just personal opinion of a individual.
Chris in Ct
No the rating I would like to see for recoil needs to leave the person shooting the gun out of the equation.
I would like to see only how much of a kick if we want to call it that the gun has.
I don’t want to know if one person can hold the gun better than another person.
I just want to know how much the gun moves. The more it moves the higher the number on the rating scale. The less it moves in any way or less vibration felt would be a lower number on the number rating scale.
Shouldn’t it be relative to the amount of power a gun puts out @ the muzzle with a given pellet?
Reb
Why is it, do you think, that we don’t see more under levers? The concept doesn’t seem that much more expensive to build than a break barrel, and it seems to me that it would eliminate certain problems inherent to break barrels. Is there a reason they aren’t more common?
Tim,
Underlevers are quite a bit more expensive to make than breaklbarrels. Besides the cocking mechanism that is separate, they also have the sliding compression chamber. It has to be precision ground both inside and out, and there also has to be a catch to keep it from closing. The additional parts and precision work add up.
B.B.
Good Morning all,
Put 35 shots through the new TX this am. It took seven 2 shot groups to get the scope sighted, my first one. It took 173 clicks up and 93 to left from factory setting.
Then I shot four 5 shot groups. Pellets 1~10 were JSB/15.89/domed….,.994 /.802 on bull. 11~20 were A.A. Falcon/13.43/domed……,.852/.789 but about 1″ above bull. It was cool to see the difference of the lighter pellets.
This is only at 41’/13.7yds. which is all I can muster for an indoor range. And I’m a newbie.
Ice, sleet changing to rain today,… so the 20yd. will have to wait. The TX does not seem to be that hold sensitive, but what do I know.
On the rest bag subject,….on the way to pick up the TX yesterday, I stopped by a pet store to check on crushed walnut shells. 12$ for 10 quarts. Yes,..quarts. I would say that amount would easily do two 10″ “jean leg” bags with some left over. I will check into plastic pellets today also.
Gunfunn1…remember that sight in re-cap I promised this weekend? Well, I’m going to have to renege on that. I think I got it! 😉
Chris
Sounds like the same weather I’m having here in NW Ohio.
twotalon
Chris, USA
Glad your having fun with your TX.
And I knew you would get the sight in done. 😉
Gunfunn1,
Yeah, thanks……I got some work to do on that group size I think. My 1” @ 13.7yds. won’t hold up too good to 50yds. 🙂
Chris, USA
How’s that saying go.
All in time. 😉
Gunfun1,
Question,…..eye relief wth scope. While I’m just starting to “play”,..the one thing I’v noticed that if I stand and aim, the eye relief is great each time. On the other hand, when shooting rested, the natural “cheek feel” is different and closer and the scope view is not as good but doable with more effort.
My question would be,..would it not be best to have them the same? or Does off hand and bench rest cheek positions change?
Chris, USA
I make sure when I shoulder the gun and have my cheek rested in it’s natural spot that the scope picture locks in. I don’t want to have to move my head forward or backwards. Or pull the gun in tighter to my shoulder or away from my shoulder to find my sight picture.
I close my eyes and shoulder my gun and open my shooting eye or in my case both eyes( I shoot with both eyes open ). I want to see the sight picture without moving around. I want it to lock in. I do that several times to see if I can repeat the sight picture. If not I move the scope forward or backwards to get that correct.
Then that brings us to the bench or rest. I try to have the rest up high enough so I aint all bent over and leaning way forward. I try to get my back as vertical as possible. That will help with line of sight when bench resting.
When I’m out side I mostly use my bi-pod. So if I’m setting, standing, or kneeling I can adjust my bipod to get a comfortable hold and my sight picture in a natural position in relation to the target.
But remember sometimes its hard to find that natural position. But that’s what works for me.
Cris, USA
The first part I was talking about is while standing.
Then when you have the sight picture locking in everytime while standing. Then go to the bench or bi-pod use.
Chris, USA,
They can’t be the same because you can’t be the same. Your body configuration changes when you move from standing to benchrest. That is why some Schuetzen matches have a standing rested match where the competitors stand but their rifles are rested for them.
B.B.
BB
We responded at about the same time.
Did you read what I wrote?
GF1,
No, I just responded to Chris, USA.
B.B.
BB
Ok then check it out. If you want or not. No big deal if you don’t.
Now back to the fun stuff. Got to go shoot a Monsoon.
🙂
B.B. and Gunfun,
That all makes sense. My throw together bench rest consist of 2 coolers topped with a towel and some rolled up jeans. It’s not bad but needs to be a bit higher. Getting a rest together was the reason for my question at the bottom.
Sounds like it’s time to break out the circular saw and wood screws! 🙂
Chris, USA
I think you already got ideas of how to do things. Sounds like it to me. 🙂
Twotalon,
Know of any events or shows in OH.?
Chris,
USA,
On 11 April comes the one-day show in Findlay, Toys That Shoot. It is the largest show east of the Mississippi. I will be there with Dennis Quackenbush this year.
http://www.flagcitytoysthatshoot.com
B.B.
Chris
They have a show every spring just on the far side of Findlay from here. Don’t know the date of the next one.
Met B.B. over there last spring.
twotalon
Twotalon,
Sounds cool. I’m central N.E. OH. so maybe I will try to check it out. I work alot and don’t travel much, but we’ll see. Would be nice to meet B.B.
Chris
I don’t know if B.B. plans to be there this year or not. I think he was going over to P.A. after the show.
That’s a pretty long drive from Texas for him.
twotalon
Twotalon,
Kill two birds with one stone,..sounds smart. They should fly him! 🙂 Really.
Got to head out and do some shopping,…check back in around 2ish. G-day mate!
Chris USA,
This is the trip when I return all the airguns I’ve tested the past year. Plus I go on to Delaware to visit the widow and son and daughter of my late friend, Mac after the show.
B.B.
BB
Every worthy person should have a friend as true as you are. It is impossible to overstate the value of a true friend to a grieving family.
You are an invaluable resource of airgun information. You are also an example of humility, decency and devotion.
Mac was a man of many gifts. Your friendship was chief among them.
SL,
Mac was one of the best friends I ever had. He taught me a lot about what friendship means.
B.B.
Airlines would certainly impede acquisition and transport rate substantially. Undoubtedly a job for a man and his truck It’d be nice if they didn’t have such restrictions on Airguns but I don’t think they really wanna see a case much less open it and who could trust a commercial shipper to respect a cardboard box as much as you would a (new to you) but yet to be tested gun?
Chris
The show was in April last year . B.B. did a blog on it.
twotalon.
Shooting rest bags,……I’d like to (re) toss that out there to get different views on what makes a “good one”,…. homemade, store bought, fill medium, bag material, etc. and (why) in your opinion.
Having just come from town and looking at options, I am leaning towards the smallish flexable lunch coolers, (hard liner removed), and putting the fill medium in qt. or gal. zip locks. Get 2 and I can add or subtract qt. bags as desired. They got all sorts of compartments and carry options.
As for fill, cat litter, the heavy kind, might be best and cheapest. Beans, rice, crushed walnut shells are others. Plastic pellets were not cost effective.
What ya think?
Chris, USA,
Obviously, a “good one” is one that works, it matters not where it came from or who made it. Personally, I would not go that route with the flexible lunch cooler, it and the zip-loc bags are too slick.
Using beans, rice or any other food is just asking for headaches with insects and rodents down the road unless you store them in an airtight metal container, YOU WILL HAVE PROBLEMS EVENTUALLY!
As far as the bags themselves, the old standby was the OLD lead shot bag, the newer ones manufactured today, either from China, India, Pakistan or some third world country are not near as durable as the ones of yesteryear. They could be,but are not BECAUSE it would cost a few pennies more per item to produce them, and since they are disposable, why bother. Another option for a bag could be a good quality tube sock or two, maybe even three, back-up is good.
Since plastic pellets are cost prohibitive for most people and cat litter and floor-dri will turn to dust eventually, I believe that the crushed walnut hulls is the way to go as B.B. suggested and I second the motion!
Touch bases with me on the new blog, this one is getting too long to deal with any longer! You can respond to this one HERE if you wish, no problem. I have some other information which may interest you which I just discovered myself this past weekend concerning a bench rest shooting technique which I stumbled upon unexpectedly.
Bugbuster
I recall noticing the change in shot bag material just before I left the carnival life( where I ran a 4 gun Feltman joint) behind me in ’93 or so, and spilled shot is wasted money!
Talk to me while my back’s still holding up. Good info on the crushed Walnut shell!
Mine is an old backpack filled with anthill debris so I’m in!
Gunfun
I don’t understand it either with the light rain we are having now I can see it not affecting the pellets, but in some of the heavier down pour that you say you have shot in I would think that it would just about impossible for the pellet to not be hit by at least one rain drop if not more. but it may be like you say that it just goes right thru it without the rain drop having enough mass to affect it flight.
That’s one of those mysteries that may never be known or solved
BD
Buldawg
And I could still see the target. But I use white paper and a black or blue dot.
It looked like a light fog looking through the scope on the down pours.
Don’t know why the pellets still shoot good in rain. But the white paper sure helped to see the target.
GUnfun
I use those old bleach tan paper targets you have seen, but I am not shooting at 50 yards in my yard either when it raining as it is at most 25 if I am at the back of my porch and shooting to the corner target.
I have not shot in a down pour as I do not want my guns or myself getting wet and it will blow in on my porch so I can only shoot in light rain with minimal wind like it was today until about 4 pm when the bottom fell out.
Like I said it is one of those mysteries we probably will never know.
BD
A couple of other things on the TX. I ordered left cheek. Not only did it have a left cheek,..but also a left hand loading port. I am right handed, but shoot left. It takes a little getting used to but I got the hang of it. Maybe a left cheek with a right port?? Sure,…add another 100$. 🙂
The other thing was the finish of the wood. It’s a hand rubbed finish and (not) a clear coat applied over the wood. I prefer wood like this, so I am very happy. I would call it a “satin” finish/gloss.
Just thought I would mention these 2 things,.. as they both were a surprise to me.
Chris, USA,
On that subject you may find this interesting. When I ordered my TX200 I only asked for a left handed stock and did not say anything about the action. Fortunately for me, and probably luckily, the gun came with the action still set up for a right hander. I also prefer it that way. I am semi ambidextrous and prefer the loading port set up right handed. I also prefer the cocking lever on PCPs and CO2s on the right side
Although I shoot rifles left handed I shoot handguns right handed. I do all sorts of things with different hands. It’s kind of strange. There are also several things that I do with both hands.
Just thought you mind find this amusing.
G&G
G+G,
Yes,… very amusing. If there is one like mine then that means there is probably a right cheek, left load model. That would make 4 stock variations, as the forends are cut away for each the safety and the load port. I would have preferred one like yours but I do ok with mine.
I wonder if B.B. or P.A. is aware of this??? Go to P.A. and the picture does not change and even the description says right cheek when you are actually clicked on .22, left, walnut. Had the pictures changed and the description correct, I might have caught that. For that money, you ought to know exactly what you are getting.
Oh well, in the Blue Book I see that left and walnut add to the value. Maybe an odd load and safety combo would add more value?
B.B.,
See my above commnet 1/4/15, 4:33am.
Where you aware of the variations? Thanks, Chris
Chris,
No I wasn’t. But if I were buying this gun and wanted something special I would have talked to a salesperson about the oder. Is that what you did?
There is time to change it if you have to.
B.B.
B.B.,
I did order by phone, but only to order. I thought I had done my “homework”.
I figured that only the stock would be left. The P.A. site gives no indication otherwise. And as G+G said, his is left stock, but right side load.
So what is “special”?…my left stock/left load or GG’s left stock/right load.
I’m ok with it and am used to it by now. Still very happy. I just think that P.A. ought to know what their suppliers are providing so that they can represent that on the product page,…so that a customer can choose options and not get random ones by surprise.
Chris, USA,
It would appear that you have a genuine left-hand rifle, where G&G only has a left-hand stock. Your rifle costs more, but it sounds like they may not have charged you for that feature.
B.B.
B.B.,
… 🙂 ….Thank you for your insight. Still,… P.A. needs to get it right.
Chris
Hey Everyone,
I don’t know if anyone is still reading this post tonight but if you do please help me with a question if you can.
At the range and competitions I frequently shoot at 50 yards but at home which is where I get the vast majority of my practicing done I can only shoot out to 40 yards. My question is, how much larger can you expect a group shot at 40 yards to be at 50 yards? In specific words, how much larger can you expect a .50″ group shot at 40 yards to be at 50 yards?
B.B., I know you have answered this several times before and I apologize but I simply don’t remember the answer.
G&G
G&G
You need to go to Hawke scopes and download their chair gun pro software and then imput the data such as the pellets you use ,caliber, fps, range, scope height, etc.
There are several fields at the top of the page with +and – symbols that you can click on to change the data in the fields you need changed to match you guns characteristics, also the highlighted words such as pellets can be clicked on and it gives you a prefilled selection of pellets in the caliber you are shooting. it has an instruction and help manual also as well as tool bar at the top that allows you to change the views and a lot of other info. You just need to download it and play around with it to see the differences in trajectories and zero aim points to get what you are looking for. Here is the link.
http://www.hawkeoptics.com/chairgun.html
BD
I saw your comment regarding Fla way up there but had no reply button and was looking for the bottom of the page when I stopped here. Florida has always been in my dreams but too expensive. The bill didn’t pass on it’s first round but I’m keeping my fingers crossed for them on this next try :). That would keep me on the Gulf instead of waay out there in Cali.
Reb
Reb
You definitely need to stay away from that other country on the west coast of this continent as you will not be happy there since it is way more crowed and full of in your face cant do this laws.
I understand about Fla being to expensive and I moved to Alabama to get away from all the over crowding in Fla now as Al has roughly 5 million people and Fla has 20 million. So if you want sand, sun and warmer temps as well as very gun friendly the Gulf coast of AL is very nice and does get down to the 40s at times but not for long periods, but you also nave hurricane’s to deal with living on the coast but then you have Tornados inland to so it is a toss up anyway you look at it.
Yea I am still waiting for my SSD to be approved and hoping it happens sooner than later. if you come to the gulf coast you will be about 5 to 6 hours away and my wife loves the beach so you may have unexpected company quite often LOL.
BD
I wish you all the luck necessary for a favorable decision in the very near future! I know it took most of my posessions as well as much additional financial assistance to finally be approved. Right now all I really have left are my guns, compressor and a ’78 Suzuki DR370 with a blown headgasket that I’ll never be able to ride. I had bought a Genesis 2600 as a rehab bike but it got stolen in Abilene before I got it home. There goes $250! Whatta Jerk!
G&G
I left you a post earlier with a link to the hawke chair gun pro software that will give you most all that info. It is in the spam folder right know so it will eventually get to you
But if your gun is capable of having a stable trajectory out to 50 yards then your groups should not open up at all . Your POA will be different to keep the same POI at 50 instead of 40 yards but the groups should remain pretty consistent if your gun is capable of making to 50 yards without the trajectory dropping off by a greater amount at 40 yards.
I have a Mrod that will group 1/2 inch groups from 10 to 50 yards provided I do my part on the hold under and overs to make my POA hit the same POI.
BD
buldawg76,
That has been my experience. That is, there is little to no change in the POI as I move back in distance. One thing is different though. I get fewer Xs the farther back I move. It’s just a lot harder to hit the dead center of the target as consistently the farther away it is.
Thanks for reminding me of Chairgun. I’ve been meaning to look into that.
G&G
G&G
I have the same issue myself as I tend to shake some and also with my COPD I tend to get in a rhythm with my breathing and heart rate that transfers into my gun as I am aiming so the farther away from my targets the harder it is to hit the X as you put it.
My Mrod is most definitely more accurate than I am and therefore less forgiving of my of my tendencies to sway as I call it so that I have to time my trigger pull to when I sway across the X. So I do get 1/2 inch groups at fifty yards but they are just not consistent in that I will hit 3 to 4 out of every 6 to 7 or so and maybe a 50 to 60% success rate. I am still getting used to it and am getting better but the winter cold makes it harder to keep the sway under control as well.
The chairgun will allow you to see what your best zero range will be for the pellets and fps your gun shoots best and you can change the size of the target area you want to use as a trajectory arc so in the case with my Mrod and the FT targets I shoot at have a 1 inch kill zone so for the pellets I use and the fps they shoot it shows my best zero range to be 45 yards which give me a hit inside the 1 inch kill zone at all ranges except 10, 15, 20 ,50 and 55 yards as at those distance I have to hold under by one to two mil dot to hit the kill zone.
BD
When I went outside to shoot in Abilene I coulda been mixin’ paint!
G&G,
Thee is no one answer that will be correct. Every gun shoots differently. There is no percentage of group size increase from 40 to 50 yards. I say that because of pellet stabilization. I have seen guns that shot 1/4-inch at 40 yards and 1 inch at 50 yards — though that isn’t common.
You have to just test each gun and pellet to find out.
B.B.
B.B.,
I think I would have to lose that gun.
G&G
G & G, It is still pretty early here on the left coast. For a rough guess at that question i would suggest that you shoot some known pellets at 30 yards. Measure the groups at 30 yards, figure the difference between your 30 yard groups and your 40 yard groups and add that difference to your 40 yard groups. That might be pretty close to the “Perfect world” 50 yard group. We realize that the farther we shoot the more chance there is for outside forces of any nature to affect our groups, but this might be a good starting point.
Evening all,
Thought I would blow the “cob webs” out-a-here.. 😉 .. I put 60 shots through the TX today. 20 this am with varied holds,.. and 40 this pm with all being a rested artillery hold. 4 pellet types of varied weights. All 5 shot groups, with 2 five shot groups per pellet type.
In addition to measuring groups,..I also “guesstimated” the center of the groups and measured that to the center of the bull, hence the forth coming question….
Why am I getting groups that not only vary in height center from bull, (which I EXPECT from pellets of different weights),…BUT -also- getting side to side variance from pellet type to pellet type?
3 of 4 types shoot high and left to varied degrees, while the AA 13.43 shoot high and right.
Most important,.. was the groupings were consistent from am and pm test. Aim was always on the bull.
So, has any one else seen this left/right issue crop up among pellet types??? I would consider all 60 shots the same in every way.
Chris,
absolutely. Different pellets do behave differently in the same rifle – high left, low right, centered on the bull – it just depends on how well the rifle barrel matches the pellet size, shape and weight. What you are trying to do is find the pellet that produces the smallest grouping and then adjust the scope or sights to where POI equals POA. You’re doing nothing wrong.
Fred DPRoNJ
FredDPRONJ,
Quite the “handle” you got there,.. 🙂 …Thank you for the reply. That is what I thought, but I was just checking. I would have expected up and down, but not side to side. It is actually more of a 45 degree angle.
I am measuring up/down from bull, as well as left/right from bull. I guess you could call that “X/Y” axis measurements. ( B.B. would be proud ) 😉
I have got groups to the 1/2″ range and did raise my “rig-a-bench” up about 4″. Big improvement!
Chris,
Also pay very close attention to your trigger pull. It is so darn easy to pull or push your shot to the left or right. Depending on your distance to the target the slightest little pull or push can send your pellet way left or right. For the last two days that’s exactly what I have been working on. Finger position on the trigger blade and “squeezing” the trigger straight back. As well as follow through.
G&G
G&G
I found that I get the best trigger pull on some of my HWs by getting my pinky right on the edge of the grip. Pinky is half way on and half way off the bottom of the grip. This is a pretty low hold, but gives me the most consistent hold and what seems to be the straightest back pull.
twotalon
Art, I am very pleased to know your pinky is doing well. I hope the rest of you is also. ~Ken
248 comments and counting!! B.B., Edith and you have a full time job just reading the comments, let alone responding to some and all of the other things you do as part of your enterprise.
February 20th will be three years since I went under the knife. My right side is free of the radiculopathy. My left side still has that issue but Lyrica helps. I am still not ready to do the posterior operation to see if that will take care of the problem. I do live, knowing that so many have so much more to deal with. I am blessed.
In the latter half of 2011 you reported on three different b.b. pistols. The GSG 92 which I believe is now the Swiss Arms PT92, the SIG Sauer P226 X5, and the Winchester model 11. I came to this blog shortly before the Winchester report, I believe. At some point I know you anticipated that I would find the Winchester report interesting, and I did. J-F pointed me to the other two. I anticipated buying the Winchester and said as much.
In the end I defected. I am now the proud owner of a Colt Commander. I put a bit of thought into this. Ultimately, I defected because I just couldn’t settle on the safety switch that required pushing a button and I wanted the palm safety to actually act as such. Lacking you many years of extensive experience I opted for realism over (potential) accuracy.
The Colt Commander is a close genetic sibling of the Tanfaglio Witness 1922 and the Remington 1911 RAC. The manuals and videos I have found all substantiate this. One notable difference is the open sights. The Colt has white dots and the rear sight is a ramp. Each of these has the same loading mechanism as the GSG 92. I assume the SIG Sauer P226 X5 is essentially the same, else shooting the lead b.b.s may have been a problem. I like the fact that the shot is loaded into the breech rather than being held in the magazine prior to pulling the trigger.
Although my reading has led me to believe the 1911 firearm may not be the best choice for personal security (and certainly no for concealed carry), I can’t help but love it. In spite of variation and innovation, I believe a number of other semi-auto pistols show a bit of 1911 pedigree.
In brief, I am pleased with this pistol. And with the Colt Commander I finally have a “black gun” (pun intended).
B.B., I believe I am squared away about repeated vs. single shot and I understand about DA and SA and DA/SA and DAO. I also have some understanding of the Glock safe action (but please ignore them for a moment). My question is this; is it reasonable to say that a DAO pistol is a semi-automatic. My best understanding is that it is not reasonable because semi-automatic is only one step removed from full auto and DAO is not.
Love the LGU but my heart is set on a Marauder.
I wish you and all who enter here a blessed and prosperous new year. ~Ken
Great to hear from you, Ken. Keep plugging away. You can defeat this. As for your purchase of a .45 ACP, it’s a stopper, no doubt about that. I think everyone should own a .45 ACP at one time just for it’s reputation. If you like the caliber, there are smaller and lighter guns out now that are made for this caliber. Or, may I recommend the M1 Garand – the rifle that defeated Hitler?
Happy New Year, Ken.
Fred DPRoNJ
Fred, I don’t have the .45 ACP, at least not yet. I only have a replica b.b. pistol. However, I anticipate making a trip to a nearby range and renting the .45 ACP. Regardless of what may be said about the CO2 pistol, I do believe it is has value, especially for someone who has minimal experience with a pistol. Treating it as a firearm means practicing safety as well as proficiency. I know I am not telling you anything you don’t know. Best to you and I hope citizens of DPRoNJ are liberated soon. ~Ken
Ken,
I am glad to hear from you. I pray for your health every day.
Double action and semiautomatic have little to do with one another. Double action describes how the trigger works. It means that each pull of the trigger also pulls the hammer back and releases it.
Semiautomatic means the gun ejects the spent cartridge and loads a fresh one. Two entirely different functions.
B.B.
Thank you, B.B. Your explanation simple and clear. ~Ken
B.B., I also pray for your health every time I think of you. Yesterday, I was reading some earlier stuff and read again of your medical crisis and subsequent surgeries. I am so glad you are able to be with us and continue your work. ~Ken
It is good to see the stalwarts along with names that are new to me. Life is good. ~Ken
B.B., some time ago you mentioned the Taylor Craft tail dragger. I was 17 when I had the privilege of spending a couple of hours at the controls. I had been in it before, but only as a passenger. This is the only aircraft I took through power off and power on stalls. I suppose this is the part I remember best. A decade ago I caught up with Del Cross to thank him for his influence on my life. ~Ken
I just tried to order a set of accushot rings for my Regal and donated .02 to the NRA program but never saw an order# to ensure it took. What can I do? Also couldn’t get the (after santa-14 discount) to take.
Reb,
Please contact sales@pyramydair.com or call 888-262-4867. Someone will be able to help you!
Edith
Thanks Edith! You Rock!
It has been confirmed and the discount took as well. Thanks again Edith!