by B.B. Pelletier
Let’s take a look at the velocity of the new .22-caliber Evanix Renegade pistol. As we do, pay attention to how I adjust the fill level as I go. This is a classic demonstration of why a PCP owner needs a chronograph.
Velocity with Crosman Premiers: single-action
Remember that this pistol, and all Renegades for that matter, will be more powerful in the single-action mode. That’s because the hammer has more inertia in this mode. I filled the pistol by hand pump to 3,200 psi and got the following from .22-caliber Crosman Premiers:
The average was 785 f.p.s., which is a muzzle energy of 19.57 foot pounds. The pellets were loose in the chambers and the straight drop of velocity leads me to suspect the Premier is not the pellet for this pistol.
Velocity with Crosman Premiers: double-action
I learned a lot from this test. First, a 3200 psi fill is WAY over the top for double-action work! The valve is partially locked a long time, as you can see by the rising velocities. Second, after this string, the gun was down to 1,500 psi, just like the rifle was! So, it needs a much lower fill to achieve top velocity – just like many of the first-generation Condors.
I won’t give you an average velocity, but I would limit my fill to 2800 psi after seeing this string. Maybe that would start the velocity at 719 f.p.s. I would then get 9 or 10 good shots that would average around 730 f.p.s., for a muzzle energy of 16.93 foot-pounds.
Velocity with Beeman Kodiaks: single-action
I filled the pistol to 3300 psi for the Beeman Kodiak pellets fired single-action. That gave the following string:
The average of that 8-shot string is 692 f.p.s., for a muzzle energy of 22.34 foot-pounds. I got perhaps one additional usable shot for the extra pressure, but only owners of Hill pumps and AirForce pumps (and Benjamin Discovery pumps) can go that high. That pressure will destroy an FX or Axsor pump.
Velocity with Beeman Kodiaks: double-action
I stopped the fill at 2800 psi for the double-action string. That gave these results:
I let the string go on longer to demonstrate how fast the velocity falls after you’re off the power curve. And, 2800 psi is still too much starting pressure for double-action work with this pistol. So, again, no average is given. A 2600 psi fill might net about 7-8 good shots. If we use 620 as the average, the gun produces 17.93 foot pounds.
Velocity with Eun Jins: single-action
In the Renegade rifle report, we saw that Eun Jin pellets are the best, and they continue to be so with this pistol. I filled to 3300 psi and got this string:
Once again, I let the string go longer than I felt was necessary to demonstrate how quickly the power drops off after the power curve is gone. I normally would have stopped after shot No. 7 if I were chronographing the shots, or stop after one cylinder if I were in the field. That’s easy to remember. Then I’d have an average of around 610 f.p.s. for a muzzle energy of 23.47 foot pounds. In a PISTOL!
Velocity with Eun Jins: double-action
This time I filled to only 2600 psi and got the following string:
I computed the average for this 9-shot string, and it was 551 f.p.s., which is a muzzle energy of 19.15 foot pounds. Not too shabby for a fast-shooting revolver.
What have we learned?
First, that powerful air pistols don’t get many shots. Their barrels are short for pneumatics and so are their reservoirs. Both conspire to limit the number of shots. Second, we see that the Renegade valve works the same way in both the rifle and pistol. For the record, you’ll shoot the gun single-action most of the time (for improved accuracy) and only resort to double-action for a fast follow-up shot.
Next, we’ll look at the accuracy.
53 thoughts on “Evanix Renegade double-action pistol Part 2”
Goodmorning B.B. We’re all wondering about it’s accuracy. Put on my trifocles and saw the needle on my Discovery pump’s needle behave the way you said it should. Thanks for your patience on that one. I’m still awaiting the 24″ barrel for my TalonSS. Looking fwd to running the numbers on the chrony. Wayne, a question please, your S410 verses you Condor with its bloop tube which one comes out on top and why? B.B. can I get the power of a Condor from my TalonSS with its 24″ barrel? Thanks much, Mr.B
Me again B.B. The lubrication requirements of the various types of air guns–excellent topic thank you very much. What is the difference between the seals used in a HPA/C02 PCP and those used in a C02 only gun, based on their different lubrication requirements,ie, no pellet gun oil introduced into the HPA/C02 powered guns? Thanks again Mr.B
I’d just polish the faces of the contact surfaces of the trigger to sear and the sear to hammer with a buffing wheel and some jeweler’s rouge or similar.
Won’t the nickel only be as smooth as the underlying metal?
Oh, grease the contact points, too. then cut a couple coils off that trigger spring to really take a couple pounds off the stock trigger.
which is better, af ord or a chevvy, a toyota or a honda?
It all depends on what you like.
Ni is hard and smooth wearing. We have a process the co-deposits Teflon for hard wear surfaces. But even regular bright Ni is smooth and hard, less likely to gall than brass.
I wondered about that spring. It looks very stout. I’ll bring the parts in tomorrow and see if the lab manager will let me experiment. I may get another trigger to mess around with plating.
I left out that plated Ni “levels” meaning it fills in groves if enough is applied.
The Talon SS with a 24″bbl delivers about 45 foot pounds.
The Condor I have is .22 cal. It shoots heavier pellets faster than the Air Airs s410. The s410 can shoot a 10.6 gr. kodiak 1014fps, but the Condor shoots 16 gr. over 1,200fps, (if I remember right)..
The trigger on both are very good, I like the S410 just a little better.. The ease of filling is a win for the Condor, by just a little..
The S410 is more quite, by maybe 50%, so it is very quite..
The S410 is easier for me to hold and shoot, with a wood stock. The Condor, with the round tank as a butt stock, is hard for me to get eye relief.
I finally took B.B.s advice and twisted the scope so, the gun is laying on a 20 degree angle, with the pistol grip laying out to my right, instead of straight down. (I think this is what you meant B.B.) It is a little tricky adjusting the scope, for different power levels, but way better on the eye relief issue..
For me, I shoot slightly better groups with the S410, even out to 50 yards.. for sure out to 30 yards.. but only 1/4″ tighter groups than the Condor.. and that could just be me, and the eye relief issue..
For Field Target, no doubt I’ll use the S410, even if the Condor was a .177.. It is easier in the FT sitting position for me, to hold right..
Over 50 yards, or to kill things, and the Condor can do it, the Condor is the gun, I really like how easy it is to load, and how tough it’s built. This is a real tool, not just an ugly face.. (just kidding, I like wood best), some people who come in, really like the look..
Ashland Air Rifle Range
The difference in seals between CO2 and high-pressure air is the durometer rating.
Don’t call it Pellet Gun Oil. It is not generic. It’s Crosman Pellgunoil – a branded product made from 20-weight motor oil.
Petroleum-based oil becomes explosive when subjected to high-pressure air. That’s why you don’t use Pellgunoil in a PCP.
That is a lot of foot pounds in a air pistol, is there other PCP pistols that can get that much in the same price range..
This seems like a very nice PCP pistol for the money..
I too await the accuracy test, with hope..
The current AR-6 pistol is even more powerful, at around 30 foot-pounds, I believe. And six years ago there was an AR-6 pistol with a long barrel that got 50 foot-pounds.
None of the European PCP pistols are quite as powerful as this one, I believe.
I would guess that there is very little recoil, is that true?
Would this be easier to shoot than a similar power cartridge pistol?
There is some recoil, especially when shooting Eun Jin pellets. But even a .22 rimfire pistol kicks more. And the only cartridge pistol I know of with similar power is the 2.7mm Kolibri. I would guess it kicks harder, just because it is so small and light. Maybe a .22 derringer is also 20 foot-pounds and they kick pretty hard, too.
Just wondering how effective are red dot scopes on a bb pistol? I’ve noticed the new Crosman and Daisy models are adding the rails. Are these acurate enough to even justify them or would it just drive u nuts trying to sight it in. Thanks
If you can nickle the parts, I’d do it just to have something tricked out, but I don’t think there’s any other real reason to do it.
I don’t think I’d bother to order another trigger. you’re not going to screw up the geometry with a 2 minute polishing job.
I would nickle the exterior of the gas tube for that custom touch. I’d probably leave the steel breech and bbl blued. Just my thoughts.
The Crosman and Daisy BB pistols aren’t accurate enough to justify a red dot scope, but the Tanfoglio Witness is. Unfortunately, it won’t accept a red dot.
I've got a Smith & Wesson 22A1 target pistol, that kicks quite a bit for me, using the same long rifles as I do in the Marlin 60. I can barely hit a beer can at 20 yards, maybe 1 out of 5 times..
I haven't shot it very much, I've been doing the air rifle thing..
I would be looking for something with a little less or similar power, that has half or less the recoil.. in an air pistol with 6 to 10 shots.. could it be the Renegade? Something an old man like me could hit the can maybe 5 out of 8 times.. with out improving my technique that much.. I don't want to put in a bunch of time practicing with pistols too…
This is just something to keep the empty beer cans from attacking me at night..
Ashland Air Rifle Range
Let's wait and see if the Renegade is accurate, which I suspect.
If so, it may be the gun for you.
But have you ever tried a S&W model 41 or 46? Both are .22 rimfire target pistols. They have a low bore axis, so recoil isn't as much of a problem.
Thanks, Some thing to consider, after the report on the accuracy of the Renegade..
Beer cans are thin skinned — the projectile just goes through them, unless they are full. Start eating more processed foods and use the steel cans filled with water. When you hit them, they usually jump up in the air and spray water several feet high. Have you tried it? My redneck silhouette course includes 6 oz. tomato paste cans up to the big #10 cans (at 75 yards):).
HHMMmmmmmm.. I’ll have to think on that one.. I’ve been stringing the cans on a wire between two posts, so they can spin.. setting up cans on a beam and filling with water sounds like a lot of work, if I were to hit one.. but the show might be worth it…
Do you leave the tomato paste in the can?… that would be a show…
I was watching the Olympic shooting contests on video. I see that there is a puff of vapor coming out of the barrel with each shot. Would that be the superheated air condensing as it comes out of the barrel?
Wayne, my experience is that thin-skinned soda cans jump in the air when hit which is a lot of fun, but that may be because they were set against an earth berm that I had thrown up.
I also think your groups might be even better if you shoot at something smaller than one inch dots. Maybe you could put a dot of liquid paper/whiteout on them. It’s like the saying aim small, miss small. And I read somewhere, could it have been the blog(?), that a group size won’t change much after 30 rounds unless something is wrong with the gun–or the shooter gets tired. So, you can cut back on the 45 shot groups if you want.
All, I’m going wild with my new hobby of shooting snap caps out of my firearms. You can safely practice dry-firing and rapid cycling of the action–particularly fun with the Winchester 94. Who needs to actually shoot? Actually, I read of an experiment where they compared a group that had practiced with live ammo and one where the group had dry-fired almost exclusively and the result? The dry-firers won by a significant margin. If you take up this hobby, though, my research and experience indicates that you want to stick with the AZoom snap caps that are machined from aluminum to exactly the right size. The other plastic ones will get stuck and cause feeding problems. They would get stuck so hard in the chamber of my 1911 that I had to put a cleaning rod down the bore and whack them out with a padlock–which caused huge stress about the condition of my muzzle.
It’s not superheated air. That only comes from a springer and never gets outside the gun.
It’s condensation caused when the compressed air hits normal sea-level air. You see the same thing coming off the wings of an A-10 Thunderbolt when making tight turns close to the ground.
I have a little .22 Ruger SA that lets you shoot any thing from .22 Win Mag to .22 shorts or CB caps. I usually get the long CB caps, but I think the power is the same as the short ones? Anyway, you can play cowboy with the CB caps and not worry about recoil. They can be contained by anything that will stop your S410.
We’ll work you up to a .44 mag. slowly.
I finally ordered a PCP, if all goes well I may eventually get one of your beloved S410’s. .
Not to be a whiner, but I ordered a hand pump for the PCP rifle from PA over the internet, it was not marked as back order, but was unavailable. I called and the sales guy told me that someone beat me to it, however new ones were expected in next Monday.
When I questioned how certain Monday was he admitted they really weren’t sure and just keep quoting a week out. So not wanting to just hold my rifle and say “bang, bang” I cancelled my order.
Sorry for the rant, but it seems to happen more lately, and I don’t mind if I see out of stock by the item, but it’s kinda like getting a box of Cracker Jacks without the prize every time I order.
I have notified PA of your concern. This is a software disconnect, but I know that doesn’t help the disappointment.
I tried you suggestions regarding the Daisy 22SG, lubing the pump-head, letting it sit, and shooting it at numerous times at intervals over the weekend. It still has an audible leak, so I have to return it.
I ordered a Benjamin 392 and a Williams sight for it so I’ll be able to shoot the .22 pellets that I got for the Daisy. I enjoy the .20 so much that I’m sure I will have fun with the .22 as well.
Wayne thanks for your take on the S410/Condor, surprised me that the S410 was quieter than the Condor with the bloop tube. My son and I enjoy shooting necco wafers that I super glue to cardboard. Totally biodegradable. B.B. Crosman Pellgunoil from this point fwd, thanks. Also, I haven’t forgotten to let you know how the Leapers antidroop mount is working on my Diana 350 Magnum, it’s just that the scope died and it’s replacement is on back order from Leapers. Mr.B
What were you trying to order?
I’m so curious where you were starting out in the PCP world..if this is your first…
I’m afraid it’s happen to me several times in a whole lot of ordering from PA.. I’m sure part of it is they are only passing on delivery date from the manufacture most times..
But on the other hand, in this world of tracking numbers, actual delivery dates are possible..
I FEEL YOUR PAIN!!!
Until I had the S410 to fall back on, when that happened, after all the build up of the event, I ranted too, but to the folks around me here, and then emails to Ariel.. and then phone calls to Paul, the buck stops there…if there not good I’ll give out his ext. (no waiting, he almost always there)
I got the used 10 year old Air Arms S310 in an hour ago.. wow is it purrty.. not a scratch… really like new.. It uses the same magazine as the new .22 cal carbine, so I can get some more..
Unfortunately, I didn’t get the fill adapter with it, he must have forgot to take it off his pump or scuba tank.. I haven’t heard back yet.. So I can’t fill it. It does have some air, no gauge, so I can’t tell how much, but it shot 3 shots of 16.2 JSB EXACTS at 616, 616, 612fps.. It has a straight pull back cocking and mag advance. Much more sturdy, than the lever on the S410, I’m gonna like it a lot, can’t wait to get a scope on it, and shoot a couple more shots..
I must not have had the power all the way up on the Condor, because I was showing it to someone an hour ago, and I told him to crank it up all the way from the 8 setting it was on.. It looks like it goes to 12… anyway, It’s still pretty loud on FULL power, about like a .22 short rim fire in a rifle… Before it was like a .22 long rifle in a rifle on 10 or 11 where I must have been when I thought I was on full..
But it gets seriously quite when you get below 7 and that still goes though the 1″ boards on one shot, and through the 1-1/2″ thick lumber with 5 shots on a dot..
So I don’t shoot it on higher than 8 myself, you get a lot more shots and it pretty quite. I turn it down to 5 indoors in the pool room…
But, no the Condor is not even half as quite as the Air Airs S410 even if the fps and pellet weight were the same, which would be a 16 gr .177 Eunjin in the S410 and a 16.2 gr .22 JSB in the Condor. Probably turning the Condor down to 7 or 8 to match the fps…
Ashland Air Rifle Range
Does your S410 have an aftermarket moderator or is there one built into it as it comes from the factory? I am surprised that it is quieter than the moderated Condor, and as such I am considering purchasing one.
Thank you. – Dr. G.
Yes, the quietness of the S410 caught my attention as well. B.B.’s blog report talks about the quietness of the gun and I believe indicates an integral shroud.
Thanks, that’s interesting. I’ll take another look at the A10 Thunderbolt….
Pyramyd Air got back with me and told me they do have the AirForce pumps in stock. So your problem must have been because you wanted an Axsor pump, which they are out of.
You will find the 392 to be a more solid rifle than the 22SG.
The S410 sidelever comes with a full barrel shroud that’s baffled inside. It has pressure relief holes at the rear of the shroud, which is the final trick to making the gun super-quiet.
I must say, though, that in my experience, the S410 was not quieter than the Condor with a bloop tube running at the same power. Wayne’s gun sounds special.
B.B. & All,
I'm thinking it must be special as well, or the .22 cal you tested is different from the .177
I didn't have the Air Arms S410 .22 cal carbine that long, because of the magazine issue, but I think it might have been a little louder than the .177 walnut stock, that I still have and will never sell or rent, and the beech stock .177 that also went back with the magazine advance issue..
So it could be that the .22 cal s410 is slightly louder than the .177 cal. I don't know..
The other possibility, is the condor bloop tube is defective, it is used, can they get broken and less effective, or are they tough..
I don't think my cannon does sound when on the video mode, it only does 6 minutes of video.. but I'm thinking I need a new video camera that can set up behind the shooter and then zoom and stay steady on the target as it gets hit.. any suggestions?
As far as purchasing a S410, Chris just rebuilt the mag advance on the carbine I sent back, you can get it for used price, I'd bet..
And don't worry if the mag breaks again.. It only takes 2 or 3 seconds more to pull our the mag and advance it with your finger, and pop it back in, than to advance with just the lever.. and Chris said it is easy to replace.. he is sending me two for my .177….
Great folks at PA… every business has delivery issues, but not all work them out with their customer as well as PA…
Ashland Air Rifle Range
Bloop tubes are pretty rugged.
Well, that leaves the chance that the .22 cal is louder than the .177 in the Air Arms S410, or mine is special.. I think the beech stock was just as quite as the walnut stock I still have, so it must be the .22 cal being louder..
I think a real test with sound level testers is in order, can you do it?
A “real” sound test requires a calibrated 3-scale dynamic sound testing machine that I don’t have the money to buy. The Radio-Shack testers are useless and record 20-30 decibels off.
Your a total gem, I was about to go down and by one.. no shi…
So how do we do a test, can we borrow one or send the guns somewhere?
Thanks for the follow up. Yes I had ordered an open boxed Axsor, and then asked for a new one when it was not available.
The only alternative offered was a Discovery pump, which I was not sure of the quality on, especially since my rifle will have a higher fill pressure? So declined.
The Air force brand was not offered.
No big deal, just frustrating at the time. I already have two back orders at PA as is. Pellets, scopes, etc I can wait on no problem – but this is key item. Maybe this is my punishment for even wanting to try a PCP.
The AirForce pump and the Discovery pump are identical. I don’t expect you to know that, but when I spec’ed the pump for the Discovery I wanted the best in thr world, and the AirForce pump was it. So, though the Disco only needs 2000 psi, that pump will safely go to 3600 – higher than even a Hill.
As it turns out, I had a professional sound tester come out to the Damascus Airgun Show and test a long list of smallbore and big bore airguns.
I thought I had published that list in the blog, but I just searched back to 2006 and I don’t see it.
So I will do a sound testing article.
The guns may have changed somewhat over the years, but sound hasn’t changed. The test I will publish is comprehensive enough to bracket any airgun now available.
B.B. and All,
That is great news for us all..
Sound has got to be just behind accuracy for most consumers, and at the top for some..
I'm one of the luckiest guys on the planet, with twelve acres to live and work on, but most, and more all the time, consumers have very little space to shoot in, without disturbing anyone..
I have a panther 34 and recently changed out the trigger spring to lighten the first stage. Before changing out the spring, I was getting 700-730fps w/ crosman premeiers (.22 cal).
Now my velocities are ranging from 650-715.
Did changing out the trigger spring damage my rifle?
What are the symptoms of a damaged seal or spring?
I found this link interesting & didn't know where to post it, but since the title had "more power" in it, I thought this would be as good a place as any.
While doing a google on "transfer port" I came across an article about "How to conver an air rifle to a Single-Shot 22LR"
Thought B.B. & or others might have something to say about this.
I'm no expert, but it sounded like it might be dangerous, so I thought you should see it & have a chance to comment on it.
– The BBA –
Oops! Disregard that first paragraph. I thought I was posting this in another section.
(Too many windows open.)
While I'm in here, I do have a question on this pistol…
I have the current AR6 pistol you mentioned above, & I love it.
Powerful, accurate, & very well made, but I'm curious as to how would you compare this pistol to the current Evanix AR6 pistol that I have?
I know it's more powerful & that it differes in that the power changes are in reverse, in aspect to single & double action, but what would you say the pros & cons are between them?
I'm really curious as to why they made another version, that is less powerful, & that the power levels are reversed in SA & DA mode?
– The BBA –
HM Quackenbush made a combined air-rimfire rifle 100 years ago. It was the model 5. It works the way the article describes.
Not very practical, since the .22 rimfire bullet is not the same diameter as a pellet.
The Renegade pistol, like the rifle, is just easier to fire double-action. That is the advantage.
However, because the power is lowered, you get more usable shots per charge, which is another real benefit, I think.
That makes sense. Between the one described in that article & Quackenbush's gun, they sound like they're just a couple of notches above a .25 cal 1/4 pipe zip gun.
Maybe a little more accurate & safer, but not that much. eh? lol
Thanks for clarifying that about the Renegade.
More usable shots per charge, is DEFINITELY another real benefit!
My AR6 Hunting Master pistol is a great gun as far as power & accuracy, but on a 2,700 psi fill, I can only get about ten usable shots, & since I can't find a scuba shop that will give me a FULL 3,000 psi fill, it's frustrating that I can't EVER get twelve usable shots & fully utilize BOTH of the cylinders it came with.
BTW… That is shooting it single-action.
You think they would have either tuned the power down or made the air reservoir a littke bigger to fix that, but I'm guessing they were going for that magic 1,000 fps number above all, & NOW with the Renegade they're finally addressing it?
There is a fix for the AR6 though!
I posted it in my review on PA's web site, but I'll post it here as well…
If you take a small faucet washer & cut it down to fit inside where the hammer strikes, & place it over the firing pin, you will get more shots (with less fps of course) & they will even be noticably quieter.
It basically acts as a shim between the hammer & firing pin.
I haven't fully tested it in regards to the number of shots or fps yet, but I will & will post my results when I do.
I will aslo try to find the perfect thickness to achieve twelve useful shots with a 2,700 psi fill at the highest fps possible shooting it single-action, which is my main goal.
Is it just me, or does everyone else run into this problem with trying to get a full 3,000 psi fill from the scuba shops?
– The BBA –
It’s just you. I have never gotten less than 3,000 psi and usually 3300.
The o-ring/washer idea was what we used to use on the Talon to adjust power before the SS came out. It works great!
Not sure if this is active anymore given the last post was more than 18 months ago but don't try don't know… :).
Was there ever a review on the AR6 pistol?
But really I have a problem with my AR6 pistol, it leaks. Audible hissing sound from the fill port. Close the fillport holes with my fingers and no more hissing. It just developed very suddenly.
Any tips or guides to troubleshooting and fixing? Can the fill port be screwed off to reveal what is under it? There is a rotating dust cover over the fill port, does that need to be removed?
Thanks in advance.
Teong from NZ.
It sounds like an inlet port seal. They are soft and deform easily.
Here is a report on one of many AR6 pistols:
Here is another 4-part report on fixing an inlet port: