by B.B. Pelletier
Before we begin, there are 3 new articles up, and they’re about accuracy. The September podcast is also live.
Today, I’ll do a second velocity test of the Browning 800 Mag. In the first velocity test, done in Part 2 of this report, the velocities I recorded were considerably slower than those other shooters had seen. I was met with a large outcry to shim the breech seal and test again. That work, coupled with my extremely busy schedule (I’m in New York, filming more episodes of American Airgunner right now) made me put this project on the back burner until now.
The first thing I did was remove the breech seal, which in the Browning is not an o-ring but a formed seal, much like Weihrauch rifles have. You can see in the photo that it’s much deeper than an o-ring, so of course the groove it fits into is also much deeper. I was fortunate to still have a couple steel shims Vince had sent me for the Diana 27 breech seal project, so all I had to do was drop one in the channel and reinstall the breech seal.
To keep things the same, I tested each pellet from the first velocity test in the same order as last time. You may not recall that in the first test I actually tested the gun twice, because the numbers started decreasing after some testing had been done. The dieseling was diminishing significantly, so I had to retest the first pellets to see what velocities they really produced.
Gamo Match
Gamo Match pellets produced an average velocity of 450 f.p.s., with a spread from 412 to 469. In this test, they averaged 651 f.p.s., with a spread from 644 to 656. That’s an increase of 201 feet per second, which is a dramatic change. Note, also that the velocity spread dropped from 57 f.p.s. to just 12. So, the higher breech seal stabilizes the powerplant.
RWS Basic
RWS Basic pellets are lightweight, at just 7 grains weight. They averaged 455 f.p.s. in test one, with a spread from 434 to 471. In this test, the average increased to 665 f.p.s., and the spread was from 654 to 681. Again, the velocity jumped 210 f.p.s. and the total spread for 10 shots dropped slightly from 34 f.p.s. to 31.
Gamo Raptor
This is where the test got squirrelly. Some Raptors fit extremely tight and others fit loose. So they vary in size by a large margin.In the first test, Gamo Raptor pellets averaged 456 f.p.s. with a spread from 347 to 510 f.p.s. I knew something was wrong just from those numbers. In this test, the average was 723 f.p.s. and the spread went from 668 to 770. So, the velocity jumped up by 267 f.p.s. and the huge spread of 163 f.p.s. dropped slightly to 102 f.p.s. Once again, we see that Gamo Raptors are not meant for the Browning 800 Mag pistol.
700 f.p.s. air pistol?
One reader asked me if this would have been the first pistol I ever saw top 700 f.p.s., if the breech seal had been working correctly in the first test. I said I wasn’t sure, but here’s the deal with that. If the Pittsburgh Steelers had not won the 2009 Super Bowl, the Arizona Cardinals would have. You can always play “What if?” games, and it doesn’t matter. What matters is what actually happens. Yes, the Browning 800 Mag is a legitimate 700 f.p.s. air pistol, when shooting non-lead pellets.
800 f.p.s. air pistol?
Someone also asked me to test the pistol with Crosman Silver Eagle hollowpoints, which are the undisputed velocity champs of the lead-free set. These pellets fit the breech much better than the Raptors, though some did fit pretty tight. They were not tested in the first test, so all we have is the results of this test. The average was 846 f.p.s. and the spread ranged from 823 f.p.s , to 869 f.p.s. That’s a spread of 46 f.p.s. You can’t get these 4.8-grain pellets anymore, but they do show the pistol is capable of velocities over 800 f.ps. That’s not just dramatic–it’s phenomenal! And it shows clearly that the Browning is more powerful than the RWS LP8
The LP8 averaged 755 f.p.s. with Silver Eagle hollowpoints. The 800 Mag was 91 f.p.s. faster! So, that breech seal that I shimmed made one heck of a huge difference in performance.
Cocking effort
Toward the end of this velocity test, I checked the cocking effort, again. In the first test, it measured 47 lbs. on my bathroom scale. This time it measures 45 lbs. It’s wearing in, but no big dropoff as some people had hoped.
Next, we’ll look at accuracy, which matters even more than velocity.
BB: Do you think Tom Gaylord would mind if xerox copies of the R1 Book were being given away?
Edfray,
B.B. & Tom are the same person.
Yes, Tom would mind & so would I (I'm his wife). Our international copyright protection is still in effect on everything Tom and/or I have written.
We plan to reprint all of our publications, but we just don't have the time to get things going right now.
Thanks for checking with us!
Edith
BG_FRamer,
RE: Round Groups & Pellet Spiraling
Pellets don't have to spiral (corkscrew) to get round groups. Assuming target paper is the X-Y plane, the error of X equals error of Y, where X and Y are both Gaussian. The result is a circle.
Let's let X be in the vertical direction. Then if there is a wide velocity spread, you get not a circle, but an oval. The major (longer) axis will be along X.
Thus the pellets don't have to corkscrew through the air to get a circular POI.
Herb
Some of these airgun companies should be sending you holiday presents for fixing their guns and retesting them. Can you imagine how many people wouldn't be buying this Browning 800 based on the first set of velocity numbers? 200+ FPS being given away because of a shim.
It also goes to show how useful a chronograph can be. Don't have one? Well, your gun might be only doing 460 when it should be hitting 660. How would you know otherwise?
There's a lot of interesting stuff in this report.
Thanks for the re-test and thanks for giving Vince B's breech shimming a go. Attaboy Vince!
I had my buddy over Sunday to show him my newest air rifle, that Crosman Model 99 I picked up thanks to my newspaper ad. I offered and he accepted, to shoot my other rifles and complained they were not accurate as his POI was several inches from where he was aiming. I fired the rifles and demonstrated that it might be him, achieving one hole groups (just showing off at 30 feet) while his shots were all over the paper. I instructed him on the artillery hold but he complained he couldnt hold the rifles steady even though we were shooting offhand but resting our elbows on a table. He then amazed me by putting the next two pellets into the x ring. He turned to me and described that he was allowing the rifle to fall,using gravity as an aid, and when he reached the target, he fired. I told him this was the technique that 10M competition shooters all use. I know Rich is an extremely talented individual – master mechanic and muscial as well as database whiz, but he analyzes and solves problems so quickly, it still holds me in awe.
Perhaps we'll have another air rifle convert soon.
Twotalon, Godspeed to you, buddy. I kind of know what you're going through as my mother-in-law was just diagnosed with Stage IV lung cancer and started Chemo three weeks ago.
Fred
What pellets do you recommend for the Crosman 392?
Thanks,
Bill D
Bill D,
I own a 397 and it isn't very pellet picky but crosman premiers work best. I've heard that the 392 likes premiers, jsb's, rws superdomes and rws meisterkulgn pellets. I found this information by reading the reviews under the spec's of the Benjamin 392 on the Pyramyd Air website. I also used the search box on the right hand side of this page and came up with several good articles for you. Here's the first that is an article that B.B. did on the Benjamin 392:
/blog/2005/9/the-benjamin-392397-60-years-later/
Here's a more current, 5 part series that B.B. did related to your gun:
/blog/2008/1/the-pump-assist-benjamin-392-part-5/
The above link takes you to part 5 but at the top of this article you can click on the other articles in order to read them in sequence.
kevin
BB,
Today, I followed your "three new articles up" link that's on your current post finding a wealth of information. I knew this info was there because I read a couple of them a while back but I don't remember how I got directed to them. However, today, after following the link and scrolling down through the topics I was amazed at how much was there and how useful it is, or is going to be, when I reach that level of awareness. Thanks for all the effort! And, how can we as an airgun community thank you enough?
As a side note, at the end of the list of articles, is a picture of you holding what looks to me like an AirForce Talon SS. Great gun! I have one and really like it. However, I'm wondering when you're going to upgrade that picture to the Benjamin Marauder?
-Chuck
Kevin,
You've brought up an important point: airgunners who write product reviews will often indicate the pellets or accessories that worked best for them.
Edith
Mrs Gaylord,
On the PA site, if you look at the Benjamin 392 combo's (one has a 2 x 20mm scope the other has a bigger scope) the "latest buzz/article" link takes you to the 2005 article that B.B. did on this gun. If you click on the Benjamin 392 that can be purchased from PA without a scope and look at the "latest buzz/article" link it takes you to Part 2 of the 5 part series that B.B. did in 2008 related to this gun. Seems like they would want to link everyone to Part 5 so they could read the entire series. Linking the same gun to different articles I'm sure has some merit. Here's part 5 in the series:
/blog/2008/1/the-pump-assist-benjamin-392-part-5/
kevin
B.B.
I'm holding my breath for the accuracy test. Thanks for testing with Crosman Silver Eagle. If the Browning holds up on paper, who wouldn't want one? Almost half the cost as the RWS LP8. I'm shocked at the difference with the new seal. I guess that why every shooter could benefit from a Chronogragh. I have not bought one yet. That will be my next purchase, as well as this pistol perhaps. Will wait and see. Thanks!
Minotaur
If any of you read my yesterday's comment about my trip to the range with the Marauder to shoot at 50 yds, you may be wondering why I posted a 5 shot group instead of a 10 shot group since the M comes with a 10 shot magazine and we all seem to be leaning towards 10-20 shot groups as a better standard.
There were actually about 30 pellets shot before I got that final group. I let my buddy shoot a few before I got serious about accuracy. When I saw him starting to shoot tight groups I took it away from him. It helped me dial in the scope as well as showing him how much fun Ms M can be.
But, here's the background: when I got out to the range I realized I had forgotten the magazine! Well, there goes the shoot! 20 miles to the range for nothing. (not really because my buddy had a 9mm Beretta he wanted to shoot) I always store magazines separate from the guns for safety reasons (grandkids) and to make it more difficult for thieves to get all my stuff. Anyway, I was about to call off the shoot when I thought, why not try to load pellets by hand. Well, it worked. My fingers are small enough to squeeze into the breech with a pellet and single load. It's not something I'd want to do very much but in this tight spot it worked and saved the day.
I got the scope zeroed in, gave my buddy a chance to shoot an airgun, and shot a nice first time (for me) 50yd group. After shooting 30 pellets this way I was ready to quit. But, now, at least I know I can do it. And, I did it on one fill of the gun. Started out a 2500psi and ended up at 1400. I took my scuba tank along but didn't need it for this session. Next session, when I remember the magazine, I will need many fills, I'm sure.
-Chuck
yes, I was listening Chuck. I think it was around 3/4" ctc at 50 yards. My budget sometimes goes like this: Unless I can get a super deal brand new, I wait til the next best air rifle to come out and buy the older models. So when Ms. MII comes out, let me know what you want for Ms. M. lol!!!
I finally set up my Disco at 12 ftlbs @ 80 shots with precision shooting with Eun Jin 28.8gr and using RWS superdomes for fun. I run from 1700psi to 800psi and about 70 pumps to get it back up to pressure.
I feel that once you have a shot count of 80 to a 100 or more, then you may have a good chance of getting spring gun shooters to try a pcp.
B.B.
I've had loose pellet problems with the B30. The Beeman Field Targets would drop right out of the chamber and the JSBs, while better, would still fit a little loose. I found that almost all of the pellets would stay put if I swiped my thumb sideways across the loading port after loading the pellet. I pictured this causing the skirt to hang up on the side of the port. I don't know if this would affect accuracy, but it keeps the pellet in place.
BG_Farmer, that's great shooting with the blackpowder. You'll surpass the local big stud here in no time.
Herb, I agree that the spiraling problem is complex and definitely not one of those simple systems like the hydrogen atom from which science gains so much. Undoubtedly, you would have coupled factors, and to take TwoTalon's question more seriously, I do not believe there is an analytic solution to the kind of problems he was posing, not even with ugly math. Rigid body motion is so complicated, you would need a numerical approximation with a computer for which one would need to call on Jane and her friends.
Yet, I persist in thinking there must be some feasible test to figure our whether spiraling of any consequence is happening at all. It is exasperating to think of this going on right in front of our noses and not be able to know. How about this? I've seen photographs of battleships firing which capture the image of the shell in flight. Perhaps there's some camera technology with a super fast film which could film a pellet/bullet. Super slow motion or frame extracts could then be magnified and measured to scale. Or B.B. mentioned that elite field target shooters will dial in sight settings for every single foot of shooting distance for a course. By reading off these settings and looking for cyclical patterns, one should be able to discern spiraling. Wayne just has to ask Billy Lo or maybe even do these settings for himself.
TwoTalon, my eyes are average and certainly not up to determining if there's a spiral in pellets. Undoubtedly, it's there. It's just, for me, a question of how much. My Mom survived breast cancer and my Dad appears to have emerged from health problems which seemed to have no end. They included severe Crone's disease, incurable Belle's palsy, inoperable cataracts, chronic internal infections of the urinary tract, mysterious breakdowns of his immune system that caused catastrophic inflammation and had him hospitalized, a disposition to blood clots that has him on a permanent blood thinner. But we got it stabilized and he delights himself hitting a bullseye with my 1911 every now and then. You hang in there. As I've heard it said: "Real courage is something to see."
Chuck, great news about 50 yards. With your painful loading technique, I'd say your groups should shrink by a significant factor.
Matt61
Matt61,
If you're damaging the skirts to keep pellets from falling out I have to believe you're not experiencing all the potential accuracy your gun has to give.
What caliber is your B30?
kevin
ajvenom,
I asked Ms. M what she thought about your proposal and she said her lawyer will let me know. LOL!
On the subject of springer shooters: what is it that they do that they don't want to be very far away from an air fill after 30-40 shots? Does a hunter shoot 30-40 shots per hunt? If it's plinking, is it so hard to set up a scuba tank near by? If it competition aren't the majority using PCP?
-C
Speaking of shims, after three years of shootng the Quest 800, I noticed the breech seal was getting pretty flush with the breach. So I borrowed a set of paper punches and an x-acto knife from my wife and made one.
It's still shooting smoothly, quitely and with plenty of power. Also, it has Has a nice sounding phummmp when I shoot targets. When hunting, the "p" is silent for the prey.
Chuck, yes, I hear some go back to springers for hunting because of the simplicity of the spring air rifles. I Don't think I've shot more than 50 rounds hunting, except to have some fun plinking when we were done. BTW, you do say Ms. M not Mrs. M, so I was just wondering…lol!!!!
Kevin,
The B30 is .177. Am I damaging the skirt? I brush very lightly sideways as I seat the pellet. On the other hand, I've seen how easily lead pellets deform. I suppose it doesn't matter now shooting at 5 yards. But if I get more time shooting longer distances at the range, I may not do this.
By the way, it is pretty clear now that the IZH 61 cannot keep up with the B30 even at my short distance. Even small flaws in my shooting technique will affect the IZH 61 with its light weight. But with its heavy weight and high velocity, the B30 keeps drilling them in there.
Matt61
CJr, just my own experience. I regularily head out to a spot about 20 minutes from the city I live in, with my two sons.
In the course of an afternoon we'll cover about 4 or 5 miles, mostly plinking.
This is why I consider the springer to be so handy. (I with my Slavia, the boys with their Red Ryders).
Something like our new Nightstalker works great too…
I'll easily go through a 1/2 tin of pellets or a bit less…but seldom less than 100.
With the Nightstalker I'll finish the .88gm C02 cartridge.
This is why pnuematics are out me.
But one that could get 100 shots would pique my interest.
CowBoyStar Dad
Matt61,
I'm not sure the accuracy will be as noticable at the short distances you typically shoot but I think you would notice the significance at longer distances. Even small deformaties in pellet skirts make a significant difference at long distances. Since I've become obssessed with long distance shooting I'm even weighing pellets. Big difference as well.
If you're not deforming the skirts I'm not sure why they would stick in an oversize breech.
Why not try a pellet with a bigger skirt? I've read that the crosman premiers do great in Bam B 30's. Have you tried them?
The eley wasps also have oversize skirts. How would you like to try a tin on me?
If so, send me your address. klentz4@comcast.net
kevin
Matt,
RE: High Speed Camera
No doubt such measurements could be done, but they would be very expensive to setup and very tedious to get enough data to be meaningful.
All in all, I'll stand by my remark, and perhaps clarify it a bit. There is no practical method for the average shooter to directly measure corkscrewing of a pellet.
By and large through, the best pellet (smallest group size) probably isn't corkscrewing to any significant degree.
RE: Field Range Shooters and range chart
Obviously the field target guys are doing this because it works. My perception is that it works for several two different reasons.
First BB has remarked about hold under/over vs range chart. Gravity stays the same, and if the pellet velocity starts off the same, hold over/under should work. It just doesn't work as well as actually adjusting the scope.
The other factor, besides the basic ballistic path due to gravity, is a curvature of the pellet due to aerodynamics. If the pellet is corkscrewing it has to also induce some additional curve to the path of the pellet. Same for pellet spin. Some additional curvature, the question is how much.
There are also problems with scope sightline not being exactly above and parallel to he boreline.
So all in all, the pragmatic way to calibrate the system (gun+scope+pellet+shooter) is to do it experimentally with a range chart.
The FT range chart also assume that you are shooting horizontally. I've been trying to kill some pesky squirrels, and much of the shooting is at steep vertical angles which adds another wrinkle to shooting. I finally built a feeder in the tree to get the squirrels into a position, and have the feeder act as a backstop so that I'm not spraying pellets over the neighborhood.
Herb
alright Herb, slay it don't spray it……
matt61, in a .22 cal. the eun jin 28.4gr have been the tightest pellet I've tried.
CowboyStarDad,
How do you and the boys find the time to look down the barrel of an airgun when you have all those beautiful mountains to look up at? BTW, do you ever worry about Pumas.
-Chuck
Herb,
BB has the technology for high speed filming. Have you noticed the opening sequences of American Airgunner? Watch Paul Capello fire his big bore 😉
-C
CJr, actually the mountains are a 4 hour drive from where we are. This area (Edmonton) is what would be called the steppes in Europe…the area between the prairies and the foothills.
Lots of lakes and rolling hills…not quite flat enough for a lot of wheat farming (more to the east and south)…lots of canola though.
But back on topic. I've read with great interest some of the reviews b.b. has done lately on the Marauder and such…if they ever can get to the 80 to 100 shot capacity I'll be forking out the cash.
CowBoyStar Dad
Cjr,
RE: High Speed filming
I can't speak for Tom and Paul, but I doubt it. You'd have to take not one but perhaps 10 sets (one horizontal and one vertical) of images at 2 foot(?) intervals to measure horizontal and vertical deflection. High speed images are typically done with a high speed flash to a camera with a much slower shutter speed. I really doubt that they have that kind of setup.
Herb
Herb,
Have you seen their opening sequence? I suspect they used special effects but even at that it's pretty impressive to see.
-Chuck
On high speed filming,
You could always buy a 4000 frame/second video camera for $16,000….
Thanks for writing this update. Based on earlier writings of yours, I always shim the breach seal of a new gun and periodically check them. I'll be interested to see how accurate this pistol is.
Re: Frame speed
Assume modest 600 fps for pellet –
600 ft/sec / 4000 frames/sec
= 600/4000 ft/frame
= 1.8 inches
So for 4000 frames/sec the pellet travels about 1.8 inches. To really freeze the pellet, to accurately measure position, you'd need something a lot faster.
Herb
Vince,
The TF97 sight came loose. To tighten it do I need to use a spanner and just turn the nuts on both sides?
DB
DB, as I recall, that's pretty much it.
Need 800 fps in a pistol? – PA should stock these:
http://edgun.ru/en/cat/pistols_02.php
Volvo,
Those are BEEYOOTEEFULLL! I wonder how they shoot? Maybe we should get B.B. to do a review on one! From the looks of them, I have absolutely no hopes of actually owning one, but it would be interesting reading.
Those are some intriguing air guns. I wonder what they start at.
Volvo,
Here's the first one I've seen for sale. Tempting even for a non pistol guy:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/thread/1251734263/FS+-+NIB+.177+VELES+PCP+Pistol
Volvo, I'm dying to learn about your ultimate plinker. Do you have any update? Your vast experience lends the ultimate credence to "ultimate plinker".
kevin
Kevin,
I consider myself a non-handgun guy also, but I would be tempted by the right PCP pistol however.
As far as my ultimate pinker, please understand that I am looking for my ultimate, which could be very different from another person’s choice.
My criteria:
Style – yes, I am that shallow. It needs to be pleasing to the eye with a warm wood stock.
Accurate – at ten meters it must be able to stack pellets.
Trigger – light target type trigger that is predictable.
Quiet – what was the most quiet Springer BB had tested?
Fit – this is the tough one without holding the rifle. I like a “mid” size best.
I received a few pictures this past weekend of a 50 year old rifle in wonderful shape. It will still be some time before I hold it, and when I do I’ll let you know how well it meets my expectations.
Overall, I feel my strategy of a PCP for power and Springer for plinking should satisfy my shooting needs for the foreseeable future. Nevertheless, I have no regrets about all the air rifles that passed through my hands leading to this conclusion.
Volvo
Volvo,
Thanks for your revelations.
As I've said before in other words, it seems we are twin sons from different mothers.
It seems as though my needs are similar. A pcp has a functional place in my arsenal. However, most of my time shooting is not hunting and my passion for long range shooting with air rifles is waning since I've learned that at 100 yards, or less, they can hold their own with my pathetic collection of firearms. I've also learned that my accuracy expectations for pellet rifles is greater than it ever was for firearms. In reflection it seems that I was satisfied with firearm accuracy in a much greater target area since I was a hunter not a match competition shooter. The kill zone was most important not ctc accuracy. Now that I'm shooting airguns more it's tough to tune out the noise of the importance of accuracy.
Because of my past background in firearms I came to appreciate fine woodwork, detailing, finish, aftermarket trigger work and most importantly accuracy in the gun. I went the extra step to reload since I learned that off the shelf ammo is imprecise/inaccurate. Really enjoyed the unexpected benefits of reloading like the zen of turning out rounds, the chemist in developing new formula's and the sense of independence from relying on manufacturers to make my guns go.
Although I've spent alot of time recently wringing out the accuracy of long range airgun shooting, I still find myself having most fun shooting at short distances with springers. Spent an hour tonight with a pellet sampler and the diana 27.
These are among the many reasons that I am very curious as to your ultimate decision on an accurate, vintage gun with fit and finish that can still be a pleasure to shoot.
kevin
Guys,
We'll look into these guns. Pleae remember that many times a prototype is shown and what you see may be far from the production stage.
B.B.
Matt,
In my experience, Chinese barrels have tended towards being oversized. I think the Chinese make rifling buttons a little larger, so the tool can wear longer and produce more barrels. Unfortunately when it is new, that gives you a larger bore.
B.B.
High-speed camera,
Jake is right about the cost of those cameras, guys. We're not even to the point of being able to affoard to rent one yet. We have a million things we want to do with one, but the cost is just too high at present.
B.B.
BB, at one time you generally ranked the quality of barrel makers from other countries as:
Barrel Ranking:
1. Germany
2. Czech Republic/Russia/Hungary/England
3. Korea
4. U.S. (Only applies to Benjamin Sheridan Crosman and Daisy pneumatic and CO2 guns.)
5. Spain
6. Argentina
7. China
8. Turkey
Does this still hold true today. Have you seen any changes in barrel quality from any these countries?
ajvenom,
No, that list is dated. No replacements.
B.B.
BB I was wondering what scope would you reccomend for a gamo bigcat. I would like the scope to be under 60 dollars
I recommend this one:
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/leapers-5th-gen-3-9×50-rifle-scope-mil-dot-reticle?a=829
Use high mounts.
B.B.
BB
Thanks so much for the wealth of information here. Unfortunately, I’m experiencing info overload. I’m a budding new air gunner in the market for an air rifle and I’m desperately seeking some advice/recommendations.
I’m looking for a quality rifle that is going punch paper without remorse and stay around the $300 mark. It needs to hold its own on the rifle range and be fun to shoot at variable ranges. I don’t have a power plant/action preference (except no PCP or CO2) and I’m not afraid to work so cocking effort isn’t a big concern. Wood stock is preferable. I have some experience shooting but I’m still pretty green so something both forgiving and has room for me to grow into it.
I’ve considered everything from a Benjamin 397 to a RWS 48 or 52 although the latter are pushing my budget.
Thanks
the newbie
the newbie,
Welcome! You're just the kind of reader this blog was designed for.
My first suggestion is to post your question in the "comments" section under the most recent article that B.B. has written so all the airgunners reading this blog can chime in with their opinions and why. Here's a link that will always take you to the most recent article that B.B. has written (he writes a new article everyday, Monday-Friday):
/blog//
Secondly, it would be important if you posted the range you typically will be shooting. You mentioned rifle range so are we talking about 50 yards minimum? You've mentioned the RWS 48/52 which are great guns. Heavy and tiring to cock over long periods of target shooting but great guns. You also mentioned the benjamin 397 also a great gun. I own one. It also gets tiring to pump over long periods of target shooting and is very tough to scope for longer range shooting.
Tell us more under the comments under todays article and I know you'll get lots of help.
kevin
Newbie,
You want a spring gun or perhaps a multi-pump pneumatic.
Let's stay with .177 to keep pellet cost low. You didn't mention hunting, so .177 works fine.
I don't know what "… hold its own on the rifle range." means. Will you be taking your rifle to a public range, or is this just an expression that the gun has to be accurate? If the latter, then I have a couple good recommendations.
I recommend the Crosman Nitro Piston Short Stroke as a great starter gun. It comes scoped and is a very smooth shooter.
But let's go farther. Why not start out with a really inexpensive rifle and later move up? How about a Mendoza RM200 for only $110? Don't even bother with a scope. Just get used to this rifle for a year or so and you will know a lot more about what you want next time.
B.B.
Dear, Tom. I have just sent you an email, asking for elaborate instructions on how to perform the breach seal mod with safety. I bet i'm not the only one who is interested about it. 😉
Please check your inbox.
Thank you.
Could you please give us instruction on how to remove the seal. I want to do the mod but i am afraid that i may harm the seal in the process.
sot,
Please go to:
/blog//
This will get you to the current days blog where everybody will see your question. Very few people look at the older blog articles.
-Chuck
sot,
I also meant to tell you to repost your question there. Don't worry about being off topic. You can post all questions there.
-Chuck
sot,
Stick a sharp knife blade under the seal on one side and pry up.
B.B.
I had one in 22 cal that starting shooting while closing the gun after loading a pellet. Sent it off for the recall on this issue. I guess mine was too badly damaged as they sent me a new gun.
The new one does not have the trigger adjustment on the back, it is in front of the trigger though I don’t think it adjusts as low on the pull. as i recall mine had a metal trigger, this one is plastic though wider and more comfortable to shoot. safety is still metal.
mine is shooting 14.3 CPHP’s at 500 fps. i have yet to try other pellets in it as the crosman ones are least expensive to shoot during the break in, at least least expensive i have on hand.