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Education / Training IZH MP-656K or TT33 BB pistol – Part 1

IZH MP-656K or TT33 BB pistol – Part 1

by B.B. Pelletier

The IZH Baikal MP656K, which is the BB gun version of the Tula Tokarev…commonly called the TT33 Tokarev.

I always like to give you guys something to talk about over the weekend. Today’s pistol should generate a lot of conversation. Not only is it a BB pistol made on the TT33 Tokarev styling, this one is made out of a real Tokarev.

Back during the Vietnam War, I owned two of these. Each was a Norinco Chi Com variant of the Russian Tokarev. I learned then what a novel little pistol this is. It fires a .30 cal (7.62mm) bottlenecked cartridge that closely resembles the .30 cal. broomhandle Mauser round. I fount it possible to make reloads from highly reworked 5.56mm brass. But the brass swelled, and I don’t recommend it to anybody. Ammunition was impossible to come by in the 1970s, but it’s pretty common today.

This BB pistol is so remarkable, that I’m going to expand the introduction to two reports so I can show you details of the gun. Today will be a general intro.

Just like the firearm, all the controls work on the BB pistol.

Tremendous realism
There are no compromises in this gun. It’s made from a genuine Russian Tokarev pistol. That means it’s all steel, and the black plastic grip panels have CCCP next to the Soviet star. The pistol I’m examining has a frame date of 1950.

In the past, guns made from firearms have been problematic and often removed from the market. As soon as these are in stock, buy one. Do not hesitate!

Single-action only
The Tokarev firearm is a single-action pistol, and the BB pistol is also single-action. To fire the gun, you must cock the hammer each time you shoot. That may slow down you down because you can’t fire the gun by simply pulling the trigger. So, this is more of a collector’s gun than an action shooter’s gun.

The MP-656K uncocked.

The MP-656K half-cocked.

The MP-656K cocked.

Field-stripped, if you want.

Just like the firearm, the TT33 field strips quite easily. In my second report, I’ll have more to say about the internal parts since some of them are novel and require an explanation.

Realism, realism, realism!
Several years ago, we had some Kalashnikov BB guns called Junker models 1, 2 and 3. Not only did they resemble an AK47, they were made from the same parts. The Junkers were taken off the shelves quickly and are now quite scarce in the United States. While we don’t believe the same thing will happen with this pistol, true collectors should order one right away. Like a Makarov, this is real deal!

author avatar
Tom Gaylord (B.B. Pelletier)
Tom Gaylord, also known as B.B. Pelletier, provides expert insights to airgunners all over the world on behalf of Pyramyd AIR. He has earned the title The Godfather of Airguns™ for his contributions to the industry, spending many years with AirForce Airguns and starting magazines dedicated to the sport such as Airgun Illustrated.

123 thoughts on “IZH MP-656K or TT33 BB pistol – Part 1”

  1. Wow, that is a seriously nice replica. While I’m not very fond of it’s aesthetics, I do like that its made of steel like a real firearm. I wish I could afford one of these for my collection. Beautiful, simply beautiful.


  2. I have question for you(all) leinght of slavia 631 spring is 23 cm,now i have buy (and put)spring that is 5 cm longer and i noticed that i HAVE gain power but also twang is noticeable.Is this worth or not?I have heard about guys who have cut spring from gamo shadow 1000(about 5 cm) and put it in slavija 631 (before that they have changed piston seal AND MADE ONE FROM LEATHER)and gain MORE power than original gamo shadow

    • Is it worth it or not? That’s really up to you, isn’t it…

      But I would ask how much power you’ve gained. If it’s a LOT of power, then I’d be worried that the gun might break. With regards to the twanging, did you put anything like ‘spring tar’ on it?

      • Vince -thank you- is nothing serius slavia s have tendency to make twang noises,i did use some gun-oil-spray buth only drop or two and as i have said it is accurate as hell(still) ,i did not gain much in terms of power buth potencial of this gun is great

  3. I’m curious why I can’t find any info about the Titan GP, supposedly sold at Walmart, but made by Crosman. I hear its a cheaper version of the Trail. I would like a bit more info on whats included, and whats not. As well as confirmed cost. I know someone has the info. 😛


    • Ryan

      They have been chatting about it for quit awhile on the Yellow Forum. I could tell you what I know based on what I have read and my own observations, but this is PA’s forum and I don’t want to discuss competitors offerings out of respect for them.

      Go to the Yellow and read all about it. http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/

      The one thing I will say is that the stock is orange. ORANGE!

    • Ryan: I have handled the Titan sold at Chinamart and while seems cheap, it doesn’t have sling swivels, a shroud, a nice checkered stock, or a AO scope, with the Weaver style mounting rail. It also needs a better trigger. You’d be money ahead and better off buying the Benjamin Trail from Pyramyd in my opinion. As SL said, there’s been a lot of talk of it on the forums.

      • I’m glad I got the trail then. It is a much nicer gun. I also upgraded the trigger to a GRT-III and it is amazing. great value for sure. I am tempted to get the trail in synthetic stock for some hunting. My hardwood stock already has some dings just from minimal use. I would hate to use it in the field and come back with a beat up gun. The synthetic would be good for field use, but its heavier by over a pound. All in all, I think I made a good decision.


  4. Good morning BB.
    Clever stuff re engineering real firearms to shoot Air/Co2.
    I wrote a little while back how old Lee Enfield mark 4 service rifles were converted to fire the air cartridge system back in the mid 80s.
    How much do I regret not buying one 🙁

    The thing I like about the time difference between Europe and the USA is that it makes me look like a wholesome early riser.
    I hope no one checks the clock and adds six hours…oops.

  5. DAVE man good morning 🙂 The thing i like about airguns is that I DON T HAVE TO THINK ABOUT CO2 or sonmething!I do RESPECT POWER ,) and choice about co2 and air is clever i admit GOOD WORK

    • Good morning CS 🙂
      I love springers because you get them out the bag crank the barrel/lever and shoot.
      No preparation needed.
      They are not too daunting to work on yourself either.

      The PCP I had was superb as well though.
      No recoil or spring noise and with a good silencer(Freely available in the UK)dead silent,little more than a spit.
      Silence is a great aid for hunting,when your pellet has a slower velocity from a 12ft pound rifle.
      Rapid shot capability with little effort(Except pumping the bottle in advance).
      Tuning potential to massive power levels as well.
      Awesome rifles.
      The downside was that because I didn’t shoot on a regular basis I kept the PCP in its broken down configuration.
      This became a vicious circle.
      I had a little time and I wanted to shoot,I needed to pump the bottle and build up the gun,I couldn’t be bothered, so I didn’t shoot,and so on and so forth.
      If I had discovered BBs site back then though,things may have been different.

  6. Good morning B.B.,

    Yes sir this looks like a must buy. Duskwight are you familiar with this version of the Tokarev pistol and if so would you please give us your impressions of it.

    Mr B.

    • Mr.B

      Yes, of course. I wrote B.B. about it some time ago via mail. Think of it as a single-action MP-654 with a tad more accuracy and power. Purely recreational and collectible stuff.
      Here they started its second edition, with less holes drilled and less grinding, however still without ejector pin, but “false” one can be easily made from nail or wire, just to keep the look.


  7. BB and All

    Waaaaay back when armory surplus 1911 .45 ACP parts were actually available and cheap, a friend of mine who had his own machine shop made a pellet pistol conversion for the 1911. I wish I had bought that gun from him!

    I do remember though, it had really fat grips because he modified the magazine well to accept his home-brewed Co2 magazine, similar to this Makarov pistol. I think the valve and barrel was scavenged out of a Daisy pistol that looked like a Colt Woodsman?

    My “mental price-list” for such a gun today would be what…? about $900?… and that assumes you had your own machine shop and materials to do the work!

  8. I’m impressed! Also, the pics on this blog are some really nice photos. Where do these come from? Are you using a white background or is there some other photo editor trick making these really nice pics seem to stand alone?

    • CJr,

      B.B. usually takes and processes his own photos with the same camera Mac is using (Mac uses a piece of 17″x11″ piece of paper as a background). The difference is that Mac gives me the images to process while he does other work. So, I automatically remove all the background and background noise if I can do it quickly or if it makes a BIG difference in the photo. The field-stripped image had too much background noise, and I didn’t remove it. All I did was alter the contrast of the image to remove the bulk of it.


      • Edith,
        I noticed a comment on PA about this pistol that the number on the slide and the frame didn’t match. Do you know if there will be any attempt to try to match them up or is all that lost in the refurbishing process?


        “By Igor from USA on 2010-04-24 14:00:49 – See all my reviews Add comment to this review

        Things I liked:I only had time to shoot a few rounds but my expectations are totally met. It is a military service pistol converted to CO2. Mine has parts made in 1945, and 1943. Now my real 1939 TT-33 has a little airsoft brother.
        Things I would have changed:The numbers on the slide and the frame do not match. I wish they did … Read More Things I liked:I only had time to shoot a few rounds but my expectations are totally met. It is a military service pistol converted to CO2. Mine has parts made in 1945, and 1943. Now my real 1939 TT-33 has a little airsoft brother.
        Things I would have changed:The numbers on the slide and the frame do not match. I wish they did.”

  9. BB,

    Nice! I like the handgun conversion idea. and the pistol grips are killer with CCCP. I’m buyin’ one! It’s taking money from my NitroXL purchase, but I believe this handgun will be a collectible and most likely appreciate in value.

  10. croatia-serbia…I have the Slavia 630 (same action as the 631…different stock).
    In my opinion I don’t know whether you’d want to ‘power up’ the 631. The strong point about these guns is that they are so gentle shooting that you can shoot all day with no discomfort at all. As well, as designed they are extremely accurate…mine rivals my Avanti 853c at 10m.
    I think that the slight increase in power you may get by going to a stronger (also translates to harsher) spring would negate many of the very good features of these fine guns.

    • cowboystar dad-it is not because i will gain something in terms of power it is simply becouse i can 🙂 and it is fun,mine is still accurate after who knows how many springs it is simple mechanism and perfect for shooting botlle caps 15 meters away 😉

      • Croatia Serbia

        I agree with CSD. I want a Slavia 631, If I can find a nice one for a decent price. The reason I want one is because of it’s reputation as a SMOOTH and accurate shooter. Over here some people spend hundreds of dollars on tuning guns that already cost $600 or more in an effort to get rid of as much vibration as possible. If you want a harder hitter, or something that kicks you like a mule, buy something made for that.

        That being said, it is your gun and if you enjoy swapping springs around, who am I too say anything? Tinkering is fun sometimes. Just don’t break it!

        Bottle Caps are some of my favorite targets, they really go flying. I also like shooting NeCCo wafers (old people’s candy) and Cheez-Its. They do more of a shattering thing, which is also gratifying.

        • Lead reputation is well deserved and it is not expensive over here -if you decide to buy slavia buy 634 it is slightly stronger(220 m/s) otherwise it is basically same gun 😉

    • AlanL,

      No, B.B. did not type this with own 2 fingers. I stopped saying in the blog that B.B. dictated a blog to me because I recalled many times when he was on a trip, too tired to type up a blog and called to dictate the next blog because I can type a lot faster with 10 fingers than he can with 2 🙂

      He’s still in the hospital, but things are looking quite good. A few more milestones to reach, and then he’s home. When the first one is reached, the other 2 will follow shortly thereafter because those are removals of a drain and temporary stent. He’s very perky, sounding like his old self and looking rather fit. Look at his picture on the podcast…you’ll never see that belly again! Instead of being convex, he’s now concave!


  11. Disco issues resolved !!
    Good day!
    I just thought that, in all fairness to Crosman, it would be appropriate to provide a final update and closure on the issues I reported on the Disco a while back. As some may remember, my .177 Disco, fitted with a Leapers scope (I set it at 9x), was giving really bad groups, rested and at close range (13 yd). I would get two shots one on top of the other, then the POI of the third would jump 0.5 to 0.75 inch in any random direction. The fourth shot would be near the third, and then the fifth shot would again jump elsewhere. The resultant groups were about 0.75 inches at that range in a GOOD day. I would shoot a springer side to side, and get one hole groups, so it was not me.

    I checked everything I could. It was not the muzzlebrake, not the valve, not flexure of the tank and barrel, not the pellet type, and it was not loose stock screws.

    I thoroughly cleaned the barrel as suggested by B.B. and saw some improvement, but still no good. Finally, I figured that the barrel was simply deflecting after one shot and not coming back to position. So I checked the barrel band and pressed down and sideway on the barrel. It became obvious that, indeed, I could slide it under the tip of the allen screw (set screw on top of barrel band) and change its alignment without self recovery.

    I then tightened the allen screw until I felt it was providing a firm hold but without over tightening! The Disco then started doing beautiful groups, consistently and without fault. Typically 0.25 to 0.3 inch at 13 yd, rested, which is really good for me. A friend and I took it to a silhouette competition last night and did really good for our standards. My happiness overcame the “duh!” feeling I got after one year of struggling with this

    I would say that either the Allen screw needs to press on the barrel just enough to keep it from moving around, or maybe totally loose (I have not tried this approach and will not try it as it is working fine right now). So there you have it, the Disco is a great rifle as everyone else had correctly pointed out.

    RWS 40
    This is a discontinued rifle, which I bought new in the box for about $100, and of which there is very little info on the internet. It is very, VERY sensitive to hold, but shoots very well. I got my personal best in silhouette last night with it. I have not heard any opinions on my idea of drilling a small, shallow hole in the barrel to attach the muzzle brake firmly as it keeps coming off. It is presently attached using an Allen set screw that bears directly on the barrel, and scratches the blueing. I am afraid of attempting this without a blessing !!

    Thank you


    • 3 points of contact with 2 of 3 being “adjustable” (the set screws), is a cost savings design and a poor one at that. You can change the center or orbit of the barrel by one screw being tighter or one being looser. 4 points of contact (barrel resting at bottom with set screws at 9, 12 and 3 o’clock) would be far better. That assumes that the 6 o’clock position or resting point of the barrel is also dead center.

      I think these small details are the difference between Disco $$ and say… AA S410 $$?

      It’s great that you have “Disco-vered” this issue and shared it here.

    • Tunnel Engineer,

      I don’t see where drilling that small hole for the set screw would be as problem. Might change the harmonics of the barrel a tad and that’s a big might.
      However I’d be afraid to try it without, a drill press.

      Perhaps Vince or Derrick will give you his expect opinion.

      Mr B.

    • AlanL,

      I can help you out with this part of the question, at least:

      The question is, how soon after leaving the muzzle does a supersonic .22 caliber heavy diabolo recross the sound barrier back into subsonic range?

      Using Chairgun, a hypothetical pellet (0.22 cal, 20.00 grain, .020 BC) with a MV of 1200 FPS will drop below the sound barrier (1125 FPS, sea level, dry air, 68 degrees) just after 11 yards. Now here’s some guesswork…

      11 yards is when the pellet crosses the threshold, but I’m assuming it starts becoming unstable well before 1125 FPS, as it is approaching the sound barrier from above. Since subsonic pellets seem to start dropping off in accuracy over 950 FPS or so, I would think a supersonic pellet would need a terminal velocity of 1300 FPS or more to maintain the same amount of stability. Using Chairgun again, for the above pellet to achieve a 1300 PFS terminal velocity over 25 yards, it would need a muzzle velocity of just over 1500 FPS!

      – Orin

      • Another thought I just had is that with a high velocity sub-sonic pellet (let’s say 1100 FPS), it will be most affected by acoustic turbulence when first exiting the barrel, at its highest velocity. That would wreak havoc on accuracy after 25 yards.

        With a supersonic pellet, the effects of the sound barrier would be most concentrated at the end of its journey, when velocity was lowest. So you might be able to get a lot closer to the threshold without compromising accuracy.

        – Orin

      • Orin,

        Thanks. That all makes sense. I have an idea for a piston detent that will trap the piston head at the point of maximum compression so as not to let it bounce back. If this were viable it would 1) maximize pressure through the transfer port and maintain it longer, and 2) reduce or eliminate the back and forth recoil that is so harmful to most scopes. I just don’t have the time to develop/test my ideas!


        • AlanL,

          Wow, good luck with that. I think I remember reading somewhere that it has been tried, but never successfully executed. If I remember correctly, the bounce-back is simply too fast for a mechanical catch, and you would need something more like an electronically controlled solenoid. Maybe that would even be too slow. But I say go for it.

          – Orin

    • AlanL

      RE: Supersonic pellet

      Thanks for asking the question again. I’m more than happy to throw in an opinion! Orin, thanks for picking up the slack. What a bunch of good guys here. 🙂

      You’ve asked a simple question that entails a zillion details.

      First diabolo pellets are drag stabilized because of the rear skirt. Thus pellets don’t need to spun and can NOT tumble end over end during flight. Thus pellets by design have high drag and poor ballistic coefficients (BC).

      A bullet must be spun top be stable so that it doesn’t tumble end over end. Being more streamlined bullets have much better BCs. For example a good pellet will have a BC about 0.03 whereas a 0.22 bullet is around 0.2 for the BC.

      Now the BC that we all play with is for subsonic flight. I’m not convinced that it should be an absolute constant sub-sonically, but probably good enough if you stay below 900 fps or so.

      Now as you go over 900 fps you start to enter the transonic region. The drag goes up and the BC will go down until you reach the speed of sound. Above the speed of sound the BC will start to improve again. See:

      (Remember that drag is inversely related to the ballistic coefficient.)

      As Orin absolutely pointed out, bad things happen in the transonic region. The aerodynamic forces are very unstable. Even a lot of good 0.22 powder burners stay below the 900 fps limit to stay out of the transonic region. If stay supersonic then the aerodynamic forces are steady.

      So all in all, if you want to shoot something supersonic you need a bullet not a pellet. Powder burners generate a lot more power than airguns. By flinging a bullet at 1700 fps you are defeating the safety of an airgun which is a short range weapon. If you want that much power, then go for a powder burner.

      Hope this helps.


      • Thanks Herb. I have learned a lot from this discussion. This brings me back to the question you or somebody else asked about shooting bullets out of airguns instead of pellets. Clearly, a solid bullet made of lead would be too heavy. B.B.’s blog post made it clear that aluminum is inherently unstable (too light, probably). So this begs the question: What would be the best material to make a streamlined bullet out of, to closely simulate the weight of a lead diabolo pellet but take advantage of the better flight characteristics of a solid bullet? The rifling in an airgun takes care of spinning it. My aim here (pun intended) is to shoot a low drag .22 caliber projectile out of an airgun at supersonic speed and have it stay there all the way to a target up to 50 yards away. Is this an utterly unreasonable expectation/desire?

        • AlanL

          It isn’t just the weight of a lead bullet. The other problem that I didn’t mention is friction. The diabolo pellet just touches the barrel at the skirt and the tip. Very little contact surface. A bullet has a lot more contact surface and needs more power.

          I do understand the “guy thing.” If 10 ft-lbs is good, 100 is better! If your buddy has 100, well then you want 500 to out do him.

          Some of the big bore guns have the necessary power. Heck, they have the pumpkin chunking air guns that shoot bowling balls over several hundred yards.

          But physics aside, how do you want to use such a rifle? I wouldn’t dare shoot a 0.22 firearm inside the city limits where I live. Such power would sound like a powder burner. You’d have to have the safety concerns for a “real” firearm. A super sonic bullet is a supersonic bullet. After it leaves the muzzle, it doesn’t matter what contraption shot it.

          – – –

          Now for your question about projectile dynamics -what metal to use for pellet. Think of it this way. The biggest factor in pushing the projectile through the air is its cross-sectional area. But kinetic energy goes as mass of pellet which is cubic (eg cubic inches). Hence to have a small cross-section, but a high energy you want a dense metal.

          Aluminum has such a low density that it would be horrible for a pellet.

          Make sense?


          • Herb,

            Yes, it makes sense. Also, the interest in these matters for me lies entirely in the physics and the technical feasibility of things. In pushing the boundaries. In exploring the limits of what’s possible. With an airgun.

            Your concerns about what I’m going to shoot, and where I’m going to shoot, and the noise and so forth, are entirely misplaced. If raw power were the only thing I was interested in, I’d simply borrow my brother-in-law’s totally silenced 7 mm rifle and enjoy sending pointed magnums screaming downrange at 3750 fps with merely a muffled “thwump”.

            If the shape of a bullet of the right density were such that only the last quarter of its length contacted the bore, I wonder if that would be sufficient to minimize friction in the barrel yet still impart the spin and stability needed to fly true. Solid lead would be too heavy. Yet it has to be dense enough and soft enough to get the job done, while not so heavy that velocity would suffer. A conundrum indeed.


            • Ok, have no idea about how much energy is needed to push a 0.22 bullet through a barrel. But assuming a 40 grain bullet at 1800 fps, there is 290 ft-lbs of energy in the projectile.

              To take his words totally out of context, BB stated “A Quackenbush .457 Long Action rifle gets two good shots per fill; on mine, the max fill pressure is 3,500 psi. After the second shot, the gun is down to 2,200 pounds per square inch (psi). My rifle gets about 560 foot-pounds of muzzle energy on the first shot and 490 foot-pounds on shot two.”


              So you squeeze that power down to 0.22 caliper and that should do it. The power won’t translate directly because it would be harder to get the gas flowing through the smaller barrel. You’d probably need to use the air to power two pistons that would be driven towards each other. That would heat the gas and compress it as well giving you the power you need.

              I won’t estimate accuracy, but it would be fast.

              Make sense?


  12. Hey BB & Guy’s,I’m a little off topic but I just have to ask how to remove the front sight on my 34 Panther so I can install a muzzle brake where I’ll alway’s have it scoped.I thought the set screw was all it took,,but unlike my 350 magnum the panther seems to be on with Epoxy or something.
    Thanks In Advance,Troy

    • Bandit_46,

      Here’s Vince’s answer posted to the Katana blog: I’ve never had a Panther sight off, but more than likely the glue they use will probably loosen if you get the thing nice and warm. You don’t want to melt it, obviously, but definitely get it to where it’s too hot to comfortably touch. You’ll still have to tap it off with something, but I think you’ll find it’s a lot more cooperative that way.

      Mr B.

  13. Wow,today’s topic is a must have shocker!!!I will fill in a cousin to this pistol not yet mentioned:CZ 52 pistol in 7.62×25…..if you ever see one for sale for 200$ or less,you know what to do.I just got one at a flea mkt.The CZ has a muzzle velocity of just under to just over 1500fps!!With a 4.5 inch barrel!The rounds make it unsafe for home defence due to overpenetration{known to go thru class 2 vest}.That being said,ammo is cheap and the CZ 52 has been known to group under 6″ at 100 yards,barking fireballs out of the barrel!These rounds fit but are UNSAFE in the TT-30 and the TT-33.The Czech designers were very proud of that fact!There,I have shared and I feel better!
    Ps.If you find a pistol marked CZ 53 or CZ 54,Those are reflecting the year of manufacture and are CZ 52 in actuality…

  14. Orin
    I replied to your ongoing question yesterday about text/frame size. Trying to help out but need a little more info. Trying to help out but having difficulty in duplicating the problem.


  15. Orin
    Bringing this to the new blog so it might be easier to track. I can now finally see the problem. Sorry it took so long, I was looking in another direction. I was going through archives listed on the right of the screen. I am experiencing the same problem as you when you described what you were doing. I make no promises but I’ll let you know if I find anything. Maybe now that you have given a more descriptive nature of the problem Edith maybe able to address the problem to the programmers.


  16. Orin / Edith
    I have swapped back and forth several times between IE8 and Safari. I am only finding the problem with IE8, where you cannot resize using the analogy that Orin is using to retrieve archives (you can resize with Safari). It is beyond me (and my netbook) to go much further. I do know that I have not had any problems retrieving old files from the right side of the page.

    Orin, mate sorry I could not fix your problem I tried.


      • If I have anymore thoughts I’ll check them on IE8 and let you know. Right know I’m still jumping back and forth between Safari and IE8. Don’t give up hope I’m sure it’s a simple tweak somewhere. 🙂


      • Orin–We’ve asked the programmer to fix it. Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

        rikib–Thanks for going through the effort to corroborate Orin’s IE8 issue. Much appreciated!


        • Edith
          I happy to leave it to your programmers because I was still chasing my tail, not knowing the program details (assuming a browser problem). So now I can stop knowing it is in good hands. Thanks for the relief! 🙂



    USN Retired and Damn Proud Of It!

  18. Question to -DAVE UK -i want to know can you hunt with airguns there in UK-just curious 😉 couse in Croatia is forbidden and yes good morning man

  19. I got my old blue streak out for some plinking yesterday.
    It’s vintage early 70’s and had not been shot for a very long time. Only thing done to it since discovering that it was still around was to give it a good dose of pellgun oil and run it over the chrono. Barrel has never been cleaned.

    Plinked rocks that were about golf ball size or a bit smaller at 20-23 yds. Shot exacts and fts golds at 6 pumps. Shot very well. Only sight adjustment necessary was to lower by 1/4 turn.

    Both kinds of pellets fit very snug and required some force to get seated. The fts required more force than the exacts. If I only had these pellets back when I bought this rifle !!! I was discouraged with it back then because the only ammo I could find was the old bantam ‘bullets’ which did not shoot worth crap.


  20. twotalon,

    Good morning to you sir. Awhile back I sent my Crosman 140, from the late 50’s, off to Rick Willnecker to be resealed. He does great work by the way. Was a real joy to shoot again and brought back some wonderful memories. The best memory I now have, though, is the look on number one son’s face when I gave him that gun. He remembered shooting it as a kid. When the time is right he’ll someday pass it on to my grandson!

    Mr B.

    PS Muffles is still sleeping on the area of the rug where the nip was. His mother, Cutie, who can take or leave it–go figure, wants to have some words with you about corrupting her son.

    • Some of the oldies did very well even with the limited selection of available pellets at the time. I have to wonder how many otherwise fine old air rifles fell by the wayside because they did not shoot the old crosman wadcutters very well.
      I gave up on several airguns that were brand new because they did not shoot the available ammo well.
      Even my old daisy 25 shot much better with the federal copper plated BBs than it did with crosman or daisy BBs.
      How things have changed. The internet has brought us such a selection of guns and ammo that it boggles the mind. It used to be whatever the local hardware store sold or nothing.

      Your burned out cat will recover in time. You could try rubbing some nip on your lap to see what happens.


      • Twotalon….OUCH! That could be the least fun a cat owner could have.I too have been the local grower of the ‘nip for a cat loving neighborhood.It is amazing to see different cats react to “the good stuff”!I had to grow mine in pots suspended in midair…all the cats would investigate my greenhouse.My favorite cat had long hair and would eat the stash!I would rub some into her coat….then the other cats would chase and annoy her.I suppose I deserve some on my lap!

  21. Edith,I just looked back at entries from the end of April….to my surprise several showed that there were no comments!Is this accurate or another glitch???

    • Frank,

      We’ll have to move those comments. As it happens, I was double-posting on this blog and the old one during the last week or so before the transition. I did that so there would be something to read on this site. Plus, I wanted to see how the blog would look and used it to make some tweaks and recommendations for changes.

      I noticed that your comments are not showing up right away because they’re getting trapped in the spam filter. I’ve emailed someone correct that. Not sure when they’ll get to it, but I’m confident it’ll be pretty soon.


    • Frank B.

      RE: Comment for 2010

      When the new blog was debuted on May 2 it was stipulated that the comments would not be available for the articles converted to the new format. Most of the old blogs have been left in place for the articles before.


      I found the answers and discussions very informative. I’ve been hoping that a way is developed to port the old comments. I know it was a tough decision, but !~@#$%^&*( computers will tie you up in knots. Too back it isn’t like StarTrek – “Computer? …”


      • Thanks Herb,I totally spaced about the date….thought it was mid-April or thereabouts.Too busy,and concerns for BB’s progress and all.My DAQ .457 uses almost exactly 1000psi per shot and shot#1 @ 600+ ftlbs!!Credit the extra to BIGBORE BOB Dean for tuning it.For smallbore my DAQ .25 shoots solid lead Bigboys fast enough to go cleanly through an empty 1lb propane cylinder standing unsupported.The moderator lets me do this in a populated neighborhood unnoticed!Of course all thoughts go toward complete safety!!

        • Frank B,

          Nice to see your post about the big bores. You DAQ 1/4 bore intrigues me. What do those solid lead Big Boys weigh, how fast are you shooting them, how many shots per fill, and most importantly how interesting is this gun? Thank you so very much.

          Mr B.

          • MrB.,The ones I bought weigh 61 grains.The .25 with LDC from Dennis is VERY interesting.In my opinion the perfect hunting arm in smallbore.Now for some ambiguity;I currently have no access to a chrony so I will order one.Ican tell you I have yet to need to turn up the power.I suspect that a pellet in diablo shape @ around 30 grains can be pushed supersonic without maxing the hammer preload[again just supposition,not confirmed yet}As for shots per fill,I top off after a dozen…..just haven’t shot alot with the DAQs due to power and noise/lack of suitable places to stretch out.It is awesome to hold a rifle capable of totally eclipsing my Condor in “regular rifle format”,let alone one so beautifully rendered!!I think the Carbine in .25,which is VERY loud will be a superb plinker if I can adapt a LDC to fit.

  22. rikib:
    Can I echo CS and say maximum respect to all the veterans of the USA and those who gave their lives in the name of freedom.
    Many many thanks to you all.

    Good evening,
    Yes indeed we can hunt in the UK with airguns but only on private land and with the owners permission.
    I can shoot game in my back garden as well but unfortunately it is not a target rich environment.
    Except for one sneaky Rat who is on a long walk over a short cliff that is 🙂

    • We, in DC have one from some store or another saying “Memorial Day Weekend is all about Fun! Fun! Fun!”


      We also have a slam-bang pair of advertising campaigns, one from Pratt & Whitney saying that *their* jet engine used in the F-35 is just fine, and that there is no need for an alternate engine (from another builder). GE and Rolls Royce then contend that their undeveloped engine is at least as good, and that we must have an alternative engine, and that buying theirs will save the taxpayer $20Billion over the life of the F-35 stealth fighter.

      DoD and the Air Force do not want to spend the money; Congress is threatening to appropriate the funds and force the government to spend them.

      We in the DC area get the most interesting commercials right at Defense Budget time. Do you see the same things beyond the Beltway?

        • The commercials I am describing are aimed solely at the 535 members of the House and Senate, and their senior staffers, a total number on the order of 1500 people. No promises made.

          I remember a dozen or more years ago Northrop was pushing the B-2 in sexy commercials (aired only in DC) and urging Congress to buy! buy!! BUY!!! At the time I wrote commentaries for a lot of newspapers, so I decided to call up Northrop and try to do what the commercial wanted. I ordered a B-2 for my very own. This got them talking and I learned a lot about how corporations try to influence governments — nothing you wouldn’t guess, but ’twas interesting to hear them put it so blatantly. And disgustingly.

          Anyway, they decided not to sell me a B-2 but did send me a cool model.

          DaveUK, the UK will not win the Football World Cup. You will get tantalizingly close, of course, and then the prize will be snatched from you at the last second.

      • I don’t know whether to laugh or cry…..Pete,There is an ad running for a man named “Young Boozer”!His real name!I suppose he will be a shoo-in.

          • Truly ironic to be named the very last thing needed,AND the very thing we usually end up with!I should cut him some slack….in my teens,I dated a girl named Santa Clause[no B.S.,her real name}!

      • rikib:
        There is only one cup mate and that is the Soccer world cup 🙂
        Starts soon in south Africa.
        I think the USA is in the same starting group as England.
        Mind the door don’t hit your butt on the way out of the competition 🙂

        Only kidding,The USA has being doing progressively well in the World cup comps actually.
        I am almost certain if you guys put your mind and resources into it the USA would do really well in the soccer World cup.
        By the way I think David Beckham is more Light than heat on the pitch.
        Commiserations to LA Galaxy for having him.

  23. rikib

    I didn’t know you were a hockey fan. I used to like it quite abit myself… until the bums went on strike like the NBA and NFL before them. Since then I can’t seem to get myself to care too much.

    Funny thing is I don’t think I could get behind the Thrashers even if they ever swept the Stanley Cup Finals. A brown thrasher is a lame enough state bird– why not name the hockey team after it?? OOOoo, an unremarkable little brown bird! So tough and scary! Of course they did a POLL to decide the name of the team. I guess they followed the old adage that everything is better when designed by committee.

    Speaking of things that don’t make any sense, back when I was a hockey fan the Red Wings were my team. I wouldn’t drive through Detroit if I lost a bet, but I loved those Red Wings! I didn’t hurt that Anna Kournikova was sometimes in the stands. Hubba, hubba.

    • Slinging Lead:
      The soccer team I follow is called ‘Crystal Palace’ and have an Eagle as a logo.
      Playing against’Crystal Palace’ is like being savaged by a dead sheep not an Eagle 🙁
      36 years,man and boy I have followed that team and for what?
      One sniff of a title shot in the FA cup 20 years ago.Grrrr

      • Dave

        Crystal Palace? Sounds kinda swishy. I guess that makes the Atlanta Thrashers seem like they are brimming with testosterone! On the other hand, an Eagle could snatch up a brown thrasher in mid air, and begin feasting on it before it lands. So I suppose it is a bit of a wash.

        My ancestry is mostly Scottish, so I’m thinking I probably have a proud heritage of soccer hooliganism. No wonder I am always so frustrated, no outlet!

        Soccer is a weird thing here in the states. There is probably not a more popular sport as far as youth participation. At the pro level there seems to be little interest.

        “Phil Landerer” HA!! Your posts are always a treat. Among some of our elected representatives, that term seems to be worn as a badge of courage. One recent vice-presidential candidate justified his infidelity to his wife who has CANCER by quipping, “She was in remission at the time!” He also had an illegitimate baby with his campaign videographer. What an outstanding chief executive he would have made.

    • SL
      Always been a hockey fan, being of Canadian descent. I just have a problem wrapping my mind around southern teams, somehow it just doesn’t seem right. At least it is Philly & Chicago playing for the Cup. Although I’m not a big fan of either it was a great game.

      Stanley Cup was established in 1893 so it has been around awhile. Unlike many trophies it is passed on to next winner not remade. I don’t know about World Cup but that gives me something to look into tonight.


      • DaveUK
        The first FIFA World Cup was in 1930 and was named Jules Rimet Trophy.

        There were pervious matches: “The world’s first international football match was a challenge match played in Glasgow in 1872 between Scotland and England,[2] with the first international tournament, the inaugural edition of the British Home Championship, taking place in 1884.[3] At this stage the sport was rarely played outside the United Kingdom. As football began to increase in popularity in other parts of the world at the turn of the century, it was held as a demonstration sport with no medals awarded at the 1900 and 1904 Summer Olympics (however, the IOC has retroactively upgraded their status to official events), and at the 1906 Intercalated Games.”

        This comes from Wikipedia


  24. I don’t know how a day meant to honor those that died fighting for our freedom became synonymous with parties, Barbecues and clearance sales. Taking the day off to eat potato salad in tribute to those that paid the ultimate sacrifice, seems like sacrilege or at least absurdly ironic. Perhaps less partying is in order, and more solemn reflection.

    • SL
      It is more of a solemn day at my house (no party) and at my parents (where most of the family gathers). It is a day of remembrance and a day of thankfulness. We have been a military family an blessed without loss due to combat.
      Father: Retired Army (vietnam)
      Mother: Worked at every military base we were stationed, even when Dad was deployed.
      Older Brother: Deceased before being able to serve
      Myself: Retired Navy (Desert Storm)
      Little Brother: Retired Air Force (Desert Storm)
      Sister: Husband Retired Air Force (Desert Storm)
      Youngest Sister: Husband prior Army service

      So Memorial Day is not a party day for us, but a day to be thankful for our blessings.

      Everyone please be safe this weekend so you can come back to blog some more!


      • rikib

        I didn’t mean to be Danny Downer. When a day brings family together it is cause for celebration. Especially your family. My best regards to you and yours.

        Why didn’t you warn me you were part Canadian? 😉

        • You where not being a Danny Downer 🙂 I just meant to say that my family does take the time to remember the day for what it is meant to be. We still have our lager and all and even a toast to our fallen. I just saying we remember them, not just as a day off work.

          Yep, Mother Canadian descent, Father Canadian/Native American descent. They and my sisters still live 5 miles this side of Canadian border. How I ended up in SWGA would take up a book.


  25. Slinging lead:
    Our remembrance Sunday event is held in November here.
    Cold,overcast and wet is the weather at that time of year in the UK.
    No doubt about it that adds to such a sombre occasion.

    Your Scottish heritage could explain your urge to belt a few opposition hockey fans after the game 🙂
    I remember back in the 70s when Scotland fans ripped up the turf and stole the goal posts during a match with England.
    We were so outraged we nicked all the North Sea Oil.
    Seriously though everyone gets on fine in the UK and I myself am fluent in the ‘Jockanese’ language 🙂

    I kid you not SL the only politician you can trust is full of bullet holes mate.LOL

    I went to an open air concert once and bought some food of this Hippy health food stall.
    WOW!it was really average. 🙁

    • DaveUK

      I think you misunderstand. The Scottish soccer fans were so impressed with the athletic prowess displayed by England at your sporting event, they merely wanted a souvenir of the experience. Seeing as how the Crown Jewels are highly guarded, they went with the turf and goalposts instead.

      So you see, it was really more of a compliment. ;^)

      As usual, your post left my wife wondering why I am staring at the computer and laughing.

      You can’t trust politicians or hippies unfortunately. I think most hippie culture is based on nostalgia for something that never existed in the first place. Most hippies are just looking for another excuse to be a deadbeat and not take a shower. Actually that sounds alot like politicians as well. They probably shower more often, but they stink just as badly and they are the epitome of a deadbeat. What you really have to worry about is when a hippie becomes a politician.

      • Slinging Lead,

        Seems like we’ve got more than one hippy whose found “employment” at the federal level. A not too “swiftie” one comes instantly to mind. I’m also astounded when someone excuses a politician cheating on hisher spouse as none of our business because it’s between the husband and wife. Me, I’m wondering what other sacred oath is being broken/ignored?

        Say a Prayer please for all the veterans who gave their lives for this nation.

        Mr B.

        • Hopefully we will all take a moment to say a simple prayer. If you don’t believe in prayer just take a moment to think of what you have that others have given their life for! Celebrate your life while remembering theirs!


        • Politicians and moral standards are opposite ends of the pendulum. The only one that can afford to run for office has already been bought and paid for.
          Here in SWGA it includes local police, sheriffs, even down to the school board where they forced out any competition (twice) for one un-qualified but rich individual for School Superintendent.


          • Moral standards are at the opposite end of almost every human endeavor. It seems to be a natural thing that people, especially the ambitious, don’t want to follow moral standards – they want moral standards to follow them. Standards that refuse to move, that don’t budge and make way for progress or self-fulfillment… well, those standards are rather irritating, aren’t they? Can’t we just pretend that they all go away???

    • Ton,

      Orin mentioned this problem last week (he’s using IE8). I’ve referred this issue to Pyramyd AIR, and it should be fixed this week.


  26. I will be posting some quotes to help us remember the reason for this 3 day weekend. Hope no one is offended. I’ll try not to use anything political to current events.

    1. From the world wars of Europe to the jungles of the Far East, from the deserts of the Middle East to the African continent, and even here in our own hemisphere, our veterans have made the world a better place and America the great country we are today.
    John Hoeven

    2. America’s veterans embody the ideals upon which America was founded more than 229 years ago.
    Steve Buyer

    3. America’s Veterans have served their country with the belief that democracy and freedom are ideals to be upheld around the world.
    John Doolittle

    4. Memorial Day this year is especially important as we are reminded almost daily of the great sacrifices that the men and women of the Armed Services make to defend our way of life.
    Robin Hayes

    5. As America celebrates Memorial Day, we pay tribute to those who have given their lives in our nation’s wars.
    John M. McHugh

    Hope these are enjoyed, and not upsetting.


    • “Let’s not forget they fight to defend our Constitution…..which made our way of living possible.There are those who would have us forget it,or treat it like a menu.”-Frank Balistreri

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