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Education / Training Using nitrogen in PCPs

Using nitrogen in PCPs

by B.B. Pelletier

In case this is your first time on Pyramyd Air’s new blog, please scroll down to the previous posting that tells you more about this new site!

Update on Tom/B.B.: Tom is doing much better. I visited with him for about 10 hours on Saturday and Sunday. He’s eating solid food, got out of bed to sit in a chair and will start walking on Monday. Dare I say that we may be in the home stretch?

Today’s blog was dictated by Tom.


Want to use nitrogen in a PCP? AirForce Airguns is the only manufacturer I know of that says you can. They’ve limited the alternative gas to use in their .177 Condor only. AirForce sells a special reservoir to be used for nitrogen or air.

There was some discussion last week in the comments about the use of nitrogen in place of compressed air in a PCP. This practice has been going on informally for years, but the manufacturers of the guns have not endorsed it because of the differential in fill pressure of the tanks. Nitrogen can be filled up to 6000 psi; air is typically not filled that high.

It’s a simple thing to open a tank valve, watch the valve needle and stop when the needle hits the desired pressure in the gun. So simple, in fact, that last year AirForce Airguns dropped their restriction against nitrogen and now endorse the use in all their guns. The Condor has two different reservoirs…one for .177 and one for .22 (the difference is in the valve springs). The Talon and Talon SS tank also accepts either air or nitrogen.

There shouldn’t be a big performance difference between plain air and nitrogen. There must be some because oxygen is involved in air, but I doubt you’ll notice the difference on the chronograph. If you do, it’ll be so small it won’t matter.

What about using nitrogen in other guns?
Of course, you can use nitrogen in other PCP guns if you have the right fill adapters made to introduce the gas into the gun. That’s not the problem. The problem is if that manufacturer has specifically said no nitrogen or no gas other than air, then you’ve just voided your warranty. So, if your gun has a problem, don’t come crying to me when they won’t fix it!

Are you worried about over-pressurizing your gun?
The key is control. When you go to the gas station for fill-ups, your car’s 31-gallon tank is vastly smaller than the 2500-gallon reservoir of gas in a big tank under the island where the gas pump sits. Yet, no one worries about over-filling their car with gas. That’s because we’ve learned to shut it off when it’s full. Now, it’s true that gas tanks and gas supply pumps have automated devices that help with this, but it really doesn’t take much to shut a valve when the pressure gets up to the desired level. Let’s say you want to fill that Benjamin Discovery to 2000 psi. Just stop filling when the output needle on the tank you’re filling from hits 2000. That’s all there is to it!

I own a 4500 psi carbon fiber air tank. I fill guns to 3000 psi all the time using the above method. It doesn’t matter what type of gas is passing from one side to the other.


I can use my 4500 psi tank to fill up guns that use much lower pressures.

author avatar
Tom Gaylord (B.B. Pelletier)
Tom Gaylord, also known as B.B. Pelletier, provides expert insights to airgunners all over the world on behalf of Pyramyd AIR. He has earned the title The Godfather of Airguns™ for his contributions to the industry, spending many years with AirForce Airguns and starting magazines dedicated to the sport such as Airgun Illustrated.

123 thoughts on “Using nitrogen in PCPs”

  1. BB

    Since ambient air is mostly Nitrogen anyway, how would a manufacturer tell if you had filled your gun with Nitrogen only, unless you told them?

    Superheros are bound by duty to be honest, some mortal men have no qualms about lying through their teeth.

    What advantage would there be to using nitrogen? The only advantage I can see is more fills per tank, due to the higher pressure. At 6000 psi, that would be quite a few more fills. I think I just answered my own question.

    I am liking the new format so far.

  2. Great news on Tom, I’m happy he’s finally doing better.
    Great new format, I love it so far.
    But WHERE is our news announcement ? We were supposed to get a scoop today, where is it ?

    Do we still get sent the other comments like we did with the old blog ?


    • J-F,

      If you were one of the “helpers” on the old blog that wanted to receive all the blog comments, you’re already set up to get them from the new blog site. If that’s not how you were set up, then I’d be glad to add you to the list. Send your email address to blogger@pyramydair.com and you’ll start receiving all the blog comments within 24 hrs.

      I assume you’re joking about the news announcement…since you’re looking at it! Did you read the “welcome” announcement posted on Sunday? If not, go to the main blog page and scroll down to the Sunday announcement.


      • Wow talk about looking dumb… there I am saying how I like the NEW format and asking where is the NEW announcement we were told about and there it is hiding in plain sight I never realised I was looking at it.

        When I posted a comment in the old blog format I had to log in my google account and they gave me the option of getting the answers following my comment in my mail box but I didn’t see it here so I was just wondering about it. But getting ALL the comments seems great to me 😀

        The way the new blog comments are made where we can see the reply concerning a specific comment is great and will make things a LOT easier to read and follow the conversation.

        • J-F,

          I’ve set you up to receive all the comments. You should start receiving them shortly or at least get an email telling you that you’ve been added.

          I also like the way the new comments are threaded. It’ll take a lot of mystery out of who you’re replying to!

          I have several log-ins for this site, including admin, so that’s why my name’s not attached to the top of this comment.


  3. Morning B.B. and Edith,

    Glad to hear all of the good news concerning Tom’s improvements. Sure looks like we’re seeing the home stretch. Wait until the cats see him!

    Thank you sir for the comments pro’s and con’s of using nitrogen. I didn’t consider the possibility of voiding a warranty. Maybe my Discovery will become a trifuel gun. When I looked at the tanks in the AirForce line on PA’s site it says use for air or nitrogen in all the tanks except the micro meter tank.

    I guess I’ve got one question left for the use of nitrogen cause, short of over filling the gun, I cann’t see where it will do any harm, since most of the air I’m currently pumping into the guns is nitrogen anyway. Further more how would anyone know that nitrogen was used instead of plain old air?

    Mr B.

  4. Glad to hear that Tom’s recovery is continuing.

    FYI, I believe that AF also sells tanks for the Talon and Talon SS that also accept nitrogen. Pyramyd link is: /product/airforce-extra-air-tank-air-or-nitrogen-fits-talon-talon-ss?a=102

    BTW, I like the indentation on the comments and replies contained in the new blog format.

    • Eric,

      You’re right; there are no limits as shown in today’s blog. I see that Pyramyd Air’s website has the .177 & .22 Condor Hi-Flo tanks listed as accepting air or nitrogen. That makes me wonder what the difference is between the tanks and what you use if you have a .20 caliber barrel on the Condor. I’ll email AirForce and ask for clarification. I’ll probably edit today’s blog entry so there’s no confusion (since not all people will read the comments & might be mislead). Of course, that will make your comment & mine anachronistic.

      Glad you like the new site. Threading the comments will probably result in even more comments, although we’ve never had a shortage of those in the past.


    • Anonymous,

      we have had a number of comments in the past about folks wanting to repair the hpa pumps themselves with the advice being, “don’t do it”. This was not only for Crosman pumps but European pumps and the Pumps Air Force also sells. It’s apparently very tricky and simple things can go wrong rendering the pump still unusable. I’m curious, too. Why not let Crosman repair the pump?

      Fred PRoNJ

      • B.B. was one of the people who said you shouldn’t fix your own pump. Generally speaking, it’s one of the easiest things to mess up. It certainly won’t be under warranty once you’ve disassembled it.


    • ANON. – Benjamin Hand Pump Repair:

      Sun Optics USA is working with Crosman to repair and rebuild their pumps. If your pump is out of warranty they will rebuild and test for you for a cost of $25.00 which includes all parts labor and shipping back to you. If it is in warranty contact Crosman first for verification and then send to us. If in warranty there will be no charge to you.

      Sun Optics USA
      2901 Suffolk Dr
      Suite 130
      Fort Worth, TX 76133
      Thanks for your inquiry
      Sun Optics USA


      Popular Contact Representative: Duane Sorensen

      Price listed for repair is most likely for CONUSA Shipping and subject to change.


  5. Alright! This looks like it will be a great format.

    Our Prayers have been answered, Tom is much better and starting to move around again. Today he starts boxing with his male nurse, cause there are no more sponge baths with the cuties.. Well, maybe only one cutie, I’m not as cute as Kevin… he’s got that un-matched purple paisley deep “V” neck that drives Tom wild (when he’s on those great hospital drugs:-)

    So, Edith, can we post pictures on the great new format?

    I’ll have a report on the Sunday afternoon fun shoot a little later.

    Wacky Wayne, MD.
    Ashland Air Rifle Range

    • Wayne,

      I don’t see a way to post images in the comment section. I’m not sure Pyramyd AIR will allow them, as they can really slow down the speed at which a page loads.


  6. Hello BB and Edith.
    Good to hear about BB getting better.

    Great new format and the pictures look real good as well.
    The ‘reply’ option is also a very useful feature.
    Well done all who produced it.

  7. If you’ve noticed that Kevin has not posted anything on the new site, it’s because he can’t access it. I’ve been on the phone with this site’s programmer trying to figure out what’s blocking Kevin. Hopefully, he’ll be on here soon.


  8. Edith

    The preview function is a must have. I have avoided public humiliation on more than one occasion by using it. Somehow the different color makes you read it differently. An additional benefit is that it sometimes allowed you to see if a post had been made while you were busy typing.

    Also, whats up with the word verifications? Wasn’t that part of the daily wisdom? I must confess that my involvement in this blog has been a thinly disguised excuse to play with blogger’s WV generator. 😉

    Actually I think Fred from NJ’s comment about the blacklist is to report spammers that send us junk based on our participation in the blog (I believe the WV had something to do with this). I could be wrong. It happened once before.

    One little niggle. When I was forwarded all the old comments under blogger, the author of the post would be listed under FROM in my email program. ‘Anonymous’ usually meant it was someone new to the blog that had a question that needed answering (or a coward with something outrageous to say.) Now it just says ‘WordPress’. Is there any way of changing this? I know you have your hands full and much on your plate right now.

    Another question, will there be a limit to the length of a post? Or a limit to the number of posts that will be shown under any one article? OK, I’ll stop with the questions now.

    • Slinging Lead,

      Sorry, but you’ll have to buy a WV calendar to get your gibberish word of the day 🙂 However, I fully understand what you mean about public humiliation. Typos can be really embarrassing. In fact, I’ve declined a few Pyramyd AIR reviews because someone misspelled the word “shot” (use your imagination!).

      The blacklisted thing you mentioned is being addressed. Maybe not today or even this week, but it will be taken care of.

      I asked them to list the poster’s name in the FROM section of the email. It was a priority last week, and I thought it had been taken care of. As it happens, it only works for the emails sent to Tom and me. So, I’ll have to add that to the list for anyone who gets comments.

      There’s no limit to the length of a comment or how many comments/replies there can be. WordPress is a very customizable software; even if there is a limit, we can easily change it.


      • It’s like we’re getting admin like power to block ip adress. I don’t know if it would block the given ip to only me or if it would block it from commenting completly…

  9. Well, it looks like it will work, but my nature tells me that no matter how bad the old thing was, the new one won’t be as good. Its different…and I don’t believe in change:).

    • BG_Farmer,

      You don’t have to believe in change…it happens anyway 😉

      While neither Tom nor I like change, we realize that some things get better with change. And we’re hoping this is one of them.


  10. Anon – I don’t think Crossman repairs the pump. They had me send mine to Sun Optics in Texas for the warranty rebuild. You should contact Crossman to see if your pump is still under warranty. If so, you cover only the cost of shipping to Sun Optics, if not you cover shipping plus (I think) a $25 rebuild fee. I had a good experience dealing with Crossman and Sun Optics. I had my pump back in less than 2 weeks after shipping it. The majority of that two weeks was the shipping time to and from Michigan to Texas. The pump is now working as well as ever. You should definatley call Crossman about the warranty though, I heard the warranty was anywhere from 30 to 90 days on the pump, but I bought mine in Sept. 09 and they told me I was still under warranty in the middle of March when I called about mine. From my experience, and from the countless others I’ve read, Crossman is passionate about customer service and making sure you are happy, so give them a chance on your pump.


  11. Has anyone watched the new Airgun Academy tutorial videos? Links are in the upper right-hand side.

    They’re brand new and have never been posted on Pyramyd Air’s site. I’d be interested in what everyone thinks. We have a lot more videos planned in an effort to provide airgunners with answers to some common questions.


    • Edith

      Yes, I watched all three. I really like the Academy fight song, and plan to print-out and frame my ‘diplomas’.

      They are very well done, and give lots of information helpful to those unfamiliar with the various powerplants.

      The narrator did a good job as well. That being said, I much prefer that big, bald guy, whoever that was. I don’t know what it is exactly, he’s just so… handsome!

      • Slinging Lead,

        Yes I like the big bald guy, too. While he’s not on camera, know that he’s the one writing the scripts (and I’m the one editing them). So, he’s there in spirit, not in person. It was never the plan for him to appear in any of these videos (at his request). That said, he gave me another script this weekend. Not too shabby for being laid up in the hospital!


        • Edith

          I know scores of healthy, able-bodied people who are less productive than Tom is, laid up in the Hospital and sucking on ice chips. You two are peas in a pod, and meant for each other.

          Tom may wince at the sight of himself on video (as I do, when faced with video of myself), or even at the sound of his own voice (as I do.)

          Keep in mind that these glimpses of Tom are like nuggets of gold to his biggest fans. I have watched the artillery hold video at least a dozen times.

          That being said, the young buck is good too. What is his name?

          Maybe, one fine day, you will throw us hardcore fans a bone and do a video of your own! Then again, the increased web traffic would probably lock up the site for a month or so.

          • Slinging Lead,

            We’re not using real names for the people in the Airgun Academy videos. In fact, we may add other hosts to give a bit of variety. The “author” name attached to the video is my concoction. I came up with B.B. Pelletier as a play on airgun-related terminology, and I wanted to do the same for the video host. In Spanish, “canon” is the word for barrel, so I picked that as his last name. The word “tonel” also comes up as a Spanish word for barrel (I suspect there are subtle usage differences), so “Tony” was a natural adaption. Hence, his official name is Tony Canon. And that’s how I entertain myself…playing with words 🙂

            Incidentally, the host isn’t Spanish. He’s Italian, so they liked that I made his first name Tony!


    • I just watched all 3 and they’re pretty well made.
      Way better in my opinion than the pyramyd air sponsored “airgun web” videos found on youtube.


      • J-F

        I play favorites like everyone else, but I think Rick Eutsler’s videos on airgunweb are very well done. Everyone who contributes to my new favorite hobby in this way is very valuable to me. His reviews are honest and informative.

        I have also noticed that he has contributed to the design of PA’s new format. I appreciate his dedication to this wonderful sport. He seems to be quite the renaissance man, and I applaud him. Thanks Rick.

        • Slinging Lead,

          Right you are! Rick designed this site and is available at all times for a phone call when something isn’t right. I’ve worked with programmers who don’t give a flip about what you want or what you think. Rick, on the other hand, cares and seeks out the opinions and thoughts of the users. Personally, I’m delighted he did this site. He’s an excellent teacher and knows how to convey complex information so it’s not intimidating or difficult.

          While some people have said they don’t care of his airgun videos, I say that all comers are welcome. Airgunners have been living in the shadows for decades. Now, we have an abundance of videos, chat forums, blogs and help sites. Different strokes for different folks. An honest review of products is always welcome in my opinion.


          • I’m not saying he’s not good or that I could do better and as an airgunner I really appreciate the vids he makes BUT mr. Canon vids look more professionnal.
            The editing and sound are a lot better and he looks more confident on camera.


            -if something I said can be interpreted 2 ways and one of them could be offending to you… I meant the other one 😉

    • I really like the new video, with “young buck” Tony Canon (thanks S.L… that gave me a chuckle). I say video, singular, because I can’t find the other two. Am I missing something? I click on the “Airgun Academy – Video” link, and only the one shows up. By the way, nice special effects!

      Does this blogger support HTML tags? I guess I’ll know when I see this comment.

      I like the new site. It’s slower to scroll than the old one (I might turn off smooth scrolling in IE to make it less laggy), but as everyone else has said, the threaded comments really helps with readability. Plus, now I don’t feel the need to read all the way to the end, making a list of any comments I want to make, before posting responses.


      Thank Goodness Tom is doing so much better! Thanks again for keeping us so well informed on his status.

      I know you guys are swamped right now on many, many levels, but has anyone thought of making a mobile site option? With the right programming, I’m sure it could just pull text from the main site without giving the site admin(s) much more to maintain. I only ask because I like to follow the blog on my phone (Windows Mobile 6.1) when I’m not at a computer, and the new format is not very phone friendly.

      – Orin

  12. Edith,

    One thing I liked about the old blogger was that every comment was simply posted in chronological order, so I could simply ‘jump to comment form’ to hop to the bottom of the page and then scroll up a bit to quickly see everything new. Your new format allows individual reply strings which is really cool, but also forces me to jump up and down the entire page to see any new replies that have been posted to earlier strings. Ideally I would like to see a Sort option that allows me to see the grouped strings (as now) as well as a simple chronological presentation (as with old blogger). This would truly give us the best of both worlds, letting us find and group things as needed. Just a thought.


    • AlanL,

      If you like, I can add you to the list of people who get all comments, then you’ll see every comment and not have to figure out where the new ones are.

      That said, I’ve forwarded your request to our programmer. While they may opt to do what you ask, I’m pretty sure it’s not going to be at the top of their to-do list. It could take some time before we progress from things that have to be done to things that are optional.


      • AlanL,

        You can get all the comments in chronological order through the RSS feed in the upper right box. Looks like they thought of your request before you asked 🙂


        • Edith,

          Nice try, but not quite! All you get is the “headline”, then you still have to click on each entry to bring up the page. I appreciate your offer of being put on the list of those who get all comments, but at this time I think I’d rather not, because I am very far from qualified to help with answers.

          I hope your programmers get around to adding the sort option. And Wayne’s (or was it Slinging Lead’s?) request to let us post pics is important too. You can always limit the size/resolution of posted pics so Pyramyd doesn’t have to go to yottabytes of storage or cloud computing!


          • AlanL

            I have never let my lack of qualifications keep me from giving advice. 😉

            In all seriousness, you posses plenty enough knowledge to point the nOObs and others in the right direction. At the very least you can tell people how to navigate to the most recent blog, which is the best solution for everyone.

            You may be too busy for that, we understand.

            Did you catch my post about the HW30S? It seems the model stamping is not a matter for concern.

            • S.L.,

              Yes, I did, and I should’ve answered you. I appreciate that reassuring picture. Now I’m curious as to whether any of the HW30S rifles actually has the “S” stamped on it behind the “HW30” or not…


          • B.B./Edith: Nice new site.

            Alan: Using Google Reader to follow the new comments feed at /blog/feed/, I’m seeing the full text of each comment, just like before with the Blogger-driven setup; no need to leave the feed reader. What are you using to subscribe to the feeds?

            [reaches furtively to submit terrifyingly-un-previewed comment…]


            • Jan,

              The RSS feed wasn’t working properly until recently. It showed only 7 comments total for this site, yet we had over 50 at the time. I called the programmer (Rick Eutsler), and he fixed it immediately.


              • Yeah, I saw it jump from seven comments to the full compliment. I was mainly worried about AlanL’s problem with seeing only a “headline” for each comment in his feed reader, and having to click through to each one. I was _very_ relieved to see the full text of each comment in my feed reader. The threaded, indented WordPress layout is probably handy for reading a day’s worth of comments after the fact, but it makes an RSS reader the only practical way to follow the comments in realtime. AlanL had me spooked for a minute there!


                • I’m getting a long list of entries in the RSS feed, but the majority are still only titled “Comment on Using nitrogen in PCPs by…[whoever posted]. I still have to click on each of these entries to actually see the comment. So I find it easier to simply refresh the entire blog comment page. But like I said earlier, now that you have quite a number of comments, it’s impossible to sort them all chronologically to see at a glance which are the latest 6 comments posted (for instance) regardless of the string they are part of. It’s not user friendly to have to click on the topmost RSS entries and end up with five or six open tabs.
                  For what it’s worth, I’m using Mozilla Firefox 3.6.3. What this means is that most people will not post replies but instead post fresh top-level comments. If everyone did that the blog page would look like the old one. Anyhoo, I think having sort options is important to the utility of the blog.

                  • Alan,

                    I’m not an expert with Firefox’s “Live Bookmarks”, but Firefox’s feed capabilities seem kinda clunky. Give Google Reader a try. It allows you to view only the comments that you haven’t seen, and leaf through them with single-keystroke shortcuts. Very handy.


  13. As promised, I’ve edited today’s blog so it reflects the latest info from AirForce…that all their guns can run on either air or nitrogen.


  14. Vince, Bobby Nations & Brian in Idaho were missing from the list of people who get all the comments. I’ve now added them. I’m old, and that’s my excuse for this oversight.

    Kevin is, unfortunately, still locked out of this site. We’re hoping the issue will be resolved soon.


  15. Alan in MI,

    On the old blog, you said that someone claimed the Rainstorm had adjustable power. According to Pyramyd Air’s tech dept, it isn’t adjustable.


    • Thanks, Edith. It turns out I confused myself and made a mixed up the Evanix guns – the post I refereneced was actually for the Blizzard S-10 Long – but I’m sure the answer is the same. The review is the first one shown (2-13-2010) and the reviewer seemed emphatic about it but I never saw reference to it anywhere else. I am good with both your answer and Wayne’s.

      Thanks, and I do like the new tools (but miss the preview function). Great news about Tom too!

      Alan in MI

  16. Edith,

    I am seconding Slinging Lead’s request for a preview funtion. It has kept my less than stellar spelling skills a secret, at leest up to now.

    Mr B.

  17. Edith,
    You may have set a record today for the number of times you’ve replied on this blog in one day. Now, if we could find someone to do you’re other, menial tasks so you’re free to continue helping us…

    • Chuck,

      Too bad the other stuff isn’t menial. However, this is an important transition time. I think reading comments from familiar people helps to make an easier transition, especially since most people don’t like change. And, I’d say this is a pretty radical change, so I want to do my part to make it as comfy and easy as the old blog. In time, it will be.


  18. I have a Marauder that takes a fill to 2500psi as standard. My scuba tank gets filled to 3200psi on a good day but is always over 3000psi after a fill. I have no problem stopping at 2500 when I fill the gun. But, you know, there is always that one idiot that will crank it wide open just to see what will happen or think he can reach Mach 2 with 6000psi in his gun. I say let him do it and give natural selection a chance to bring this country back to its once great self.

  19. Now that I have been using the new format for a half hour, I find following the threads a mixed blessing. I have nothing to say that hasn’t already been said but just want to add my $.25 after inflation opinion. It is so much easier to follow a thread now. I really, really like that feature. Before, I had to read a comment then start scrolling up until I could find the original question or comment being commented on. Stop right here if you don’t want to see my but.

    But, it is so much harder and time consuming to come back later and find the new comments added to the threads I’ve already read.

    I have requested that my email address be added to the help list so I don’t inadvertently miss anything. I don’t intend to be an official blog responder (although nothing has stopped me in the past from giving uneducated advice) I just don’t want to miss anything. Maybe by the time they get the blog fixed to do a sort I won’t need it.

  20. SlingingLead
    Your weather getting any better up there. We’re still in flash flood warning till tomorrow morning.

    I really don’t don’t change, but maybe with time this will grow on me. Backtracking comments might be my one concern, have to see how that works out. Everything new usually has some hiccups.

    • Richard

      Yes it is all sunshine and rainbows up my way now.

      On the downside, the missus didn’t get much sleep last night, due to storms, so she is in quite the mood. }:-(

      I live on very high ground. It is one thing I looked very hard at when I purchased my house a couple years ago. One thing I did not look at closely was the condition/capacity of the A/C unit.

      It is now a dead soldier. I am in a furnace in the attic of hell.
      I fear my laptop will short out due to the sweat dripping into it.

      • SL
        We’ve been getting the rain now for a couple hours. Under flash flood warning till tomorrow. Tornado watch 45 miles north. No rainbows in our sights. Does clean some of the pollen off though. Hope you get a little cooler soon.

      • Slinging Lead,
        Funny you should mention that. My AC went on the fritz yesterday morning after what my wife said was a huge downpour — I had just gotten up and used my “super-man of the house” powers to sense problem. Never been any standing water in crawl-space before, and wasn’t when I looked yesterday (turned off unit and waited as always worked before), but AC guy today said control board, relay and transformer had been submerged; probably subsided quickly as house is built on leaky solid limestone. We got somewhere between 5 and 8 inches in 24 hours, so that must have something to do with it:).

  21. Hi again,

    I hope it was here that you asked me to write. Anymay, I was looking for a precise, .22 cal, hunting airgun. I’m doing pestcontrol, shooting crows etc. and I also want to use my airgun to hunt rabbits. Shooting crows and other birds is very easy with my Norica Marvic Gold .25 cal. But it’s getting a bit boring and I can only shoot and kill birds at distances up to 40-50 meters. It’s like an elephant gun(great knockdownpower at ‘short’ distances). Rabbits are quick as hell and I experienced that I am going to need an airrifle that shoots up to 100 or even 150 meters precisely and with enough knockdownpower.

    So I was looking at PA and I think I’m going to end up with a AirForce Condor in .22 cal. It’s very powerful, precise(1 inch group at 75 yards), beautiful, good crafted with an excellent barrel, and made of composite materials only, and with the appropriate pellets(PA’s own Predator pellets it might be the perfect airrifle). The price is a bit high(around 800$ for gun, pump, scope, rings, bipod). But compared to other airrifles, the Condor, I think, has the best value-for-money.

    This is offtopic, but is the Baikal IZH MP61 as precise as everybody says? and how much penetration power does it have? Can I shoot and kill small birds as house sparrows?


    • Jozef,
      I found an IZH-61 ans an IZH MP 513M on PA’s web site so I’m thinking you’re asking about the IZH-61 for bird shooting. The IZH-61 is an accurate rifle. I have one. However, it is only a .177 400-500fps gun and you’re talking about 100 meters. It is not powerful enough to take down anything at that distance. You maybe could at 10-25m if you are precise. If I were you I’d get something more powerful, say in a .22 gun for hunting.

      The Condor is an excellent choice for what you described. You need to take a careful look at how much shooting you are going to do and how many shots you get per fill. Eventually, you may wish you had a scuba tank to fill it.

      I hope you hear from others on this blog about their experiences with the Condor. They can direct you in the right direction for what you want to do.

    • Jozef

      You came to just the right place. You also included a great deal of information about what you are after, which helps the contributors here give the best advice. It looks like you don’t need any advice however, as you seem to have made your choice, and a good one at that. The Condor and its little sister the Talon are accurate and have plenty of power for those long shots. They can be made reasonably quiet with the addition of the Talon shroud as well.

      The IZH MP 61 is more of a plinking or fun rifle than a hunter with pellet velocities under 500 fps. Accuracy can be spotty as well. Some IZHs are very accurate. Mine wasn’t. Your results may vary.

      • Thanks for your replies(Anoymous & SlingingLead). I forgot to write at what distance that I would shoot the sparrows (with the IZH 61). I saw on an AGR video that the IZh was quite precise at 10-15 meters, and my question was: is there enough power to shoot and kill the sparrows at 10-15 meters(if I hit the sparrow in the head?). I saw a video on youtube were an irish shoots a modified talon and hits 5 out of 5 shots, a 30 cm Ø steelplate.

        • Jozef,

          I have killed House Sparrows using a Beeman P17 at that range on several occasions. It is a pistol with slightly less power than my IZH 61. I used body shots to do so, and they were all DRT.

          As to rabbits, you might want to peruse Hubert Hubert’s Rabiit Stew blog. He’s been documenting his rabbit hunting forays for about two years now using air guns exclusively. His normal hunting range is about 30 yards using a springer. The point being, you may not need as much firepower as you think.

          Unless you go after crows. Those are some tough buggers.

          Hope this helps,


          • Thanks for your quick reply, it was quite useful, both the website and your experience shooting sparrows with low-energy airguns. I have a springer that is capable of taking down rabbits, but the problem is they are very ‘smart’ and detect me if I come closer than 50 yards to them. Even when i’m crawling all the way, they are extremely suspicious. So I can only shoot them from longer distances than my springer is capable of. I have a Norica Marvic Gold in .25 caliber. I have been shooting crows with it, while it has a great deal of knockdownpower but its only capable of hitting precisely up to 40 meters because of its heavy bullet.

  22. Edith: Will the all the old blog articles and comments remain online?

    Are there ajustable regulators to handle 6,000 psi nitrogen tanks to accomodated safer refills for a variety of airgun fill pressures?

  23. Kevin,
    Are you out there? I fear you are being held captive by Air Arms after the comment that the FX Cyclone won out over the S410 carbine.

    Certainly Wayne will have had a hand in your disappearance; I will arrange a team consisting of myself and the other regulars. Our uniforms may be anything but uniform, however we will be united in cause, via la Kevin.

    Based on the readerships average age, could we get a little bigger font here?

  24. Hi Edith,

    I own a Baikal MP 46M single stroke pneumatic air pistol. I use Crosman Pellgunoil to lubricate the air compression chamber as specified. I accidentally purchased a tube of Crosman Silicone Chamber Oil. Is there any thing I can use the chamber oil on with this gun? Can I use the chamber oil for the barrel of the 46M pistol or is that oil strictly used for springers? There are no instructions with this chamber oil so I’m not sure if people clean and lube the inside of the pistol barrel with it or not.



  25. Edith
    I was receiving occasional comments in email, but not all. I requested all comments via the email link you provided earlier today. Since then I am receiving no comments at all in my email. Do you know what could have caused this?

    p.s. If anyone is looking for a free spell checker try “tinyspell”. It will not check for grammar though. For the most part it works well in all programs I’ve used and different spelling suggestions.
    Just thought I would mention it, no blast please:)

    • rikib,

      I don’t recall seeing your previous request to be added to the list. So, the comments you were getting were probably in response to your own comments. However, I see your current request and have added you to the list of people who get all comments. In fact, you should be getting this one.


      • Finally received some comments. Hopefully you will receive this. Last time I tried I was blocked out due to “javascript” & “cookies” I have never had this problem before, maybe it was just a freak incident.

  26. Doug,

    I would guess it would not hurt the inside of the barrel as a little ends up in the barrel when a springer is shot. Chamber oil is meant fot the old leather seal guns, FYI.

  27. On increasing font size/readability my Internet Explorer has an option at the lower right for magnification, which I use very often. I do most of my work and browsing on a netbook 10″ screen.

    Why does the RSS Feed have so much more info than the website (comments & replies)?

  28. I just checked a map, and if Wayne has taken him to Oregon, its one heck of a drive. So Kevin if you need rescued give us some kind of sign. Perhaps if you don’t say anything it means you want BG farmer and me to stop by your place and pick up all your guns as you have just given up shooting.
    Bg Farmer,
    No need for the ’06. I am planning a more covert operation, we will take Wayne when he is fiddling with the power adjuster on the S410.
    “Leave the gun. Take the cannolis.”

    • Volvo,
      I wasn’t going to threaten violence, just get Wayne interested in shooting the ’06 while you spring Kevin from the makeshift prison (deep raised bed, plywood lid held down by 5 gal. buckets full of Wayne’s recovered FT practice pellets).

      I think we have clearly waited long enough to be sure we’ve rec’d the sign that Kevin wants us to pick up all his guns and divide them amongst ourselves, just in case he doesn’t make it.

      The truck is firing on all five working cylinders and the plugs in the tires are still sticky, so we’re ready to roll. Oregon, watch out!

    • Volvo,
      Thanks for the point to the pics. How do you know that’s a mink? I wouldn’t know, and if my wife wanted a fur, rabbit would have to do!

  29. RE: Comments

    Couldn’t you simply paste the comments under the particular article with which they are associated? They wouldn’t be “comments” any more but part of the blog article itself.

    There is a lot of good discussion in the comments. I’d really be disappointed to loose the additional information.


    • Herb,

      Agreed. Losing all those comments is sad — much good advice and elaboration of the concept of the day’s blog as well as unrelated but entertaining information is there. Seems like something that could be done pretty quickly with a little programming.

      • Tom and I agree that losing the comments from the old blog is a very bad thing. I’ll think about it some more and see if I can make a proposal to Pyramyd AIR that could save them.


  30. You’ll never find him in the garden. … ahhhh I mean, I know nooothhhinnnggg.

    My troops thought it best to take Kevin “underground” when he aborted the USFT mission. I think something snapped during the last sponge bath, and he went to the other side.

    Wacky Wayne

  31. Oh, just to save you some time, keep in mind that we voted here in Oregon to move the state west of Hawaii. We wanted to bypass the Washington/California traffic.. Were going to keep all the tourist dollars, but we made a deal to run it through the islands first..
    Just thought you should know what clothes to bring.

    Also, stay for the Memorial Weekend FT event.. well, actually, you’ll be prisoners until after the event. and your 30-06 is a little over the 20fpe limit, so we’ll trade ya for a Bronco.

    Wacky Wayne,
    Match Director,
    Ashland Air Rifle Range and civil reserve army

  32. Wayne,

    There might yet be some good to come out of all of this. If Kevin is functional, perhaps you could send him over to Edith and Tom as a double agent.

    Mr B.

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