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My new Webley Junior – Part 1

by B.B. Pelletier

When I came home from the hospital, all my internet business was in disarray. Edith had been keeping up with my email, but she hadn’t known about the various accounts I have, nor did she have the time to look at them. One of these was the Texas Gun Trader, an online in-state trading place where I meet others to buy and sell firearms. I had over 1,400 guns to look at!

One of those listings was a Webley Junior pistol, which caught my eye. It was priced close to the top of the market, but it seemed to be in very nice condition. So, I contacted the seller down near Houston and we negotiated. Normally, I meet the seller face-to-face, but in my current condition that was impossible, so we worked out a deal to ship the gun. Being an airgun, this was entirely legal.

When the pistol arrived, I had the pleasant surprise that the gun was in better cosmetic condition than I had imagined. The seller had posted photos, but a Webley pistol is all black and difficult to show any detail. I did the deal on trust that they were telling me the truth, and I feel they understated the fine condition. That made me very happy, because a vintage gun in beautiful condition always retains its value.

Edith had reprinted my Webley Junior article from Airgun Revue #6 in the blog while I was in the hospital, but that report was based on my brief examination of a Junior more than 10 years ago. Now, I own one, and can test it any way that I like. I especially want to try it with darts, for which it is ideally suited.

My new air pistol is a post-war Junior, where the one reported in May was a pre-war gun. And it’s a very early version of the post-war gun, being made sometime between 1946 and about 1950.

My new Webley Junior is in fine condition. The book is all about Webley air pistols and essential to collectors. It’s out of print, so search the used book sites.

The clues to the age of my gun are the lack of an adjustable rear sight and the grips. From 1946 to ’51, the Junior grip had an extra 1/4″ projection at the top. Gordon Bruce thought it might have been a thumbrest, but there’s no proof. Also, the checkering was coarse at first and finer in the later versions.

The Junior grip had a quarter-inch projection at the top that served an unknown purpose. It was removed after 1951. Also, the checkering is coarse. It got finer in ’51.

The early post-war Juniors had a fixed rear sight. And of these, only the very earliest had a rounded notch like this. They squared the notch in the 1940s, so this is a very early post-war gun.

The book says the Junior is for children, but I will confirm that the “kids” are probably in their teens because it isn’t that easy to cock the gun, even for an adult. The price was the lowest of the Webley line, and most Juniors like mine have smoothbore barrels. Hence, my interest in shooting darts.

The frame is malleable cast iron, made outside the Webley plant but machined by Webley. That’s why the finish appears so different between the frame and the spring tube, which is high-quality steel.

This barrel latch keeps the barrel closed during firing. To open for cocking, just push it back.

I’ll enjoy getting to know this little (but heavy!) air pistol. I purposely have not yet fired it, so you and I will be only hours apart as I discover what kind of a gun I have.

Homecoming gift
When I returned from the hospital, a group of friends presented me with a fine single-action revolver. I hope to get to the range to shoot it one of these days, but I thought I’d share it with you today.

This beautiful Uberti single-action revolver was presented to me as a homecoming gift. I know you guys like fine firearms, too, so I wanted to share it with you.

Next time, we’ll test the Junior’s velocity.

67 thoughts on “My new Webley Junior – Part 1”

    • Blog Index for June 2010

      1. Single mom teaches children to shoot – Part 2
      2. IZH MP-656K or TT33 BB pistol – Part 2
      3. Umarex BB speedloader
      4. BKL rings – Part 3
      7. IZH MP655 BB and pellet pistol – Part 4
      8. Browning 800 Mag – Part 5
      9. IZH MP-656K or TT33 BB pistol – Part 3
      10. Umarex SA 177 – Part 1
      11. Browning 800 Mag – Part 6
      14. Single mom teaches children to shoot – Part 3
      15. A shrine built for a Feinwerkbau 124 – Part 6
      16. IZH MP-656K or TT33 BB pistol – Part 4
      17. Crosman 116 CO2 pistol
      18. How about safety glasses?
      21. Umarex SA 177 – Part 2
      22. A fresh look at the Beeman R9 – Part 1
      23. Umarex SA 177 – Part 3
      24. A fresh look at the Beeman R9 – Part 2
      25. Beeman R8: A classic from the past – Part 1
      28. A brief history of Beeman and Air Rifle Headquarters – Part 1
      29. A fresh look at the Beeman R9 – Part 3
      30. My new Webley Junior – Part 1

  1. Some nice looking pistols! Now that they have relaxed firearm laws (where you can carry) down here in South Georgia I need to start setting money aside for a true firearm rather than another airgun (just mod the one I have). 😀


  2. I really do want a Tempest or Typhoon from the early days when Beeman was bringing them into the US. The design is elegant; I like the way the barrel mounts and swings. I am no longer worried that they aren’t very accurate, as I myself have a pair of superbly accurate 10 m match guns. And (gulp) will have one more by late fall when I return from a trip to southern Germany and western Alpine Austria. Steyr, FWB, homelands.


  3. BB:
    A great result getting that Webley Junior in such good condition.
    Classic pistols and the last versions like the Tempest still look bang up to date now.
    Correct me if I am wrong but is the HW45 like a Webley pistol,in it’s mechanics and operation but boxed in a ‘Colt’style body?
    If so which came first,the HW or the Webley?
    Your new Uberti single action revolver is a peach BB 🙂
    Sorry to prattle on about the Air Cartridge system.Uberti made a range of Western revolvers and ‘Winchester’style rifles that could fire the air Cartridges.
    All based on real firearms and no doubt built more or less the same way and to the same high standard.
    See my boot? It is going up my butt for not buying a ‘Yellow boy’ when I had the chance.Just like the MKIV Enfield.
    Always catching the penny and losing the pound I am 🙁

    • Dave,

      Yes, the HW 45 is also an “overlever” pistol like the classic Webleys. Here are a couple reports on it:



      In the second report there are photos showing how the gun cocks.


  4. Yesterday i gave 2,5 to RWS superpoint BUT after some shooting i changed my mind – they are not that bad it is strong 4 out 5 🙂 at least one that is not squashed in tin and that is that minus

  5. Hi All,
    Off topic but I went out in the field with my Air rifle yesterday evening.Whoo Hoo.
    Only the second time ever and the last time was about 22 years ago.
    My mate had a Gamo Vipermax(‘Whisper’ I think you guys call it)with a Sabre 3-9×40 scope and I had….the BAM B3.
    From my last experience I told my buddy in advance that we probably wouldn’t see any game let alone shoot it.
    Countryside wildlife is smart,Middle aged Townies like us aren’t 🙂
    Sure enough the crops are getting high so ground game was invisible and the pigeons know a ‘Naked Ape’ with a ‘Boomstick’ when they see one and naffed off to another field.
    Never mind though,shooting at static targets over long distance was a real treat for me.
    The field is full of ‘Scarecrow’targets.mainly White plastic jerry cans or empty seed bags on metal poles.
    Once scoped in the ‘Gamo’ did exactly what it says on the tin.I would however fill the hollow stock with foam if it was mine,just to deaden the spring sound more.
    We were shooting and hitting these targets at 60 yards no problem.
    What I was pleased about was that my B3 with open sights was matching the Gamo shot for shot.
    We were both shooting his .22 ‘Eley Wasp’ Domes.
    Next time we go I will take some paper targets and my collection of pellets.That is when the scoped Gamo will come into its own,no doubt about it.
    For a test of pure distance I sat behind a large tree 150 yards up range and got my mate to send some pellets past.
    At 30 odd degree elevation both 12ftIb or less,rifles made it,and some.
    A salutary lesson for us backyard shooters.Don’t do a Saddam Hussein with your Air gun.lol

    • Back to the past (yesterdays blog) Bugs or insect can ruin your shooting in nature .Week ago i was making bbq and decided to shoot a little ,in botlle caps of course but then hunter becomes hunted millions of mosquitos attacked ,i have miss the target but i am sure that i have killed at least 1000 mosquitos while missing in that mosquito cloud 🙂

  6. Alright, now I’m jealous and envious.

    This is sounding more and more like Christmas in July at the Gaylord’s.

    Sure would be a lot of incentive for me to get well and get to the range.


  7. I have been away from the blog for over a year now, having busied myself with my relationship with my fiancee and now (yay!) wife.
    BB, I was startled to read on earlier blogs how ill you have been, and I hope you are feeling much better, with a good prognosis.
    It is amazing how much you still accomplished, even while hospitalized, but it was heartwarming to read that you have some very good friends, PLUS your wonderful wife, to help fill in the gaps for a while.
    They did a terrific job, especially given the massive amount of effort and quality of your reports on here before they pinch hit for you.

    Okay, just a bit of an interesting story about my own gas ram equipped .22 caliber Gamo CFX, which I have had so equipped for over a year now.
    The accounts about gas rams having much more energetic recoil quickly proved themselves to be true, and this caused a major problem for me, with my 3x-9x-40mm Centerpoint scope rapidly skidding rearward in my aluminum B-Square rings.
    Naturally, this threw off both my zero and my eye relief.
    Not long after I discovered this problem, I used one wrap if “Tourna Grip” brand tennis racquet handle tape around the scope tube under each ring to halt the skid, which it did.
    However, I have discovered that my zero still wanders progressively more as it is fired, probably because of the flexible tape around the tube.
    Also, I have discovered that both scope rings have slowly skidded rearward on the aluminum base rail, even though I modified the rail slightly by drilling a second recoil stop pin hole to engage the stop pins in both rings.
    The aluminum base rail is now pretty badly deformed aft of the stop pin holes.

    I am halfway through the process of resolving this problem with brute strength and a 100% steel mounting system.
    I already have from my order on PA the solid steel B-Square 17021 11mm to Weaver rail mount adapter mounted in place of the damaged aluminum base rail that came with the CFX.
    Hopefully, before week’s end, I will have my Leupold PRW Weaver rings (also solid steel) so that I can remount my scope in them.
    Anyone who knows anything about the industry Weaver standard is already aware of its incredible strength, rigidity, and durability.
    My hope is that the broader and stouter steel rings and base will once and for all halt both the rearward slide of the scope and the infernal zero wander.
    Does anyone else know of anyone else who has employed such a system for a heavy recoiling airgun, especially a gas ram powered one?
    If so, did it work?
    If not, does anyone better informed on the subject have an educated guess about whether this will work?

    • oldpink

      Congrats on your nuptials.

      I don’t have a gas ram rifle, but I do have a Diana 52, with the UTG picatinny rail attached to it. It is a rock solid mount, and should be the standard for airguns. My only complaint is a cosmetic one, as it would look horrible on certain guns, an AA TX200 for instance.

      It may be a good idea to shoot some with open sights if you haven’t already, to check if your accuracy is good without the scope. Chasing the wrong problem is frustrating.

      Good luck, and happy shooting.

        • For what it’s worth, my stock screws are snug and fully Loctited.
          Here is what I wrote about this over on the GatewayToAirguns site:

          By the way, the B-Square 17021 adapter came from PyramydAir the FOLLOWING DAY, even though I only paid for standard shipping!
          Incredible speed there.
          I mounted the B-Square 17021 11mm to Weaver adapter rail to the top of my gas ram CFX.
          The adapter is steel and looks strong, and has a stop pin that seems custom made for the stop pin hole in the top of the receiver.
          However, I did not like the look of the elevation adjustable clamp, which is held in place only with friction.
          Well…all I can say about this adapter is EPIC FAIL.
          It clamps up beautifully, my new Leupold PRW rings fit it perfectly, and the whole thing looks great.
          Also, the Leupold rings have finally completely halted the scope from skidding inexorably rearward with each succeeding shot.
          However, the B-Square adapter let me down, BIG TIME.
          I pushed the front of the mount all the way down to make contact with the receiver, hoping to get the scope better zeroed, since this whole thing sits up a bit higher than my old setup.
          The first shot was in the ballpark, then – without making any adjustments on the scope turrets – the second shot is about two inches lower.
          I take a third shot – again without adjusting the turrets at all – and the next shot is about two inches lower than the last.
          It is then that I see that the stupid mount is creeping upward at the front, causing my point of aim to lower, resulting in my shots striking lower.
          I worked my tail off resetting the mount to back flush with the receiver top, but it was all for naught.
          The stupid mount creeps upward no matter what.
          Then, after adjusting about the fifth time, the front clamp screw stripped out.
          What a cruel joke. >:(
          B-Square was on the right track, if they had simply gone with a fixed adapter.
          But, no, they queered the deal by making it adjustable, and adjustable in the most idiotic way possible!
          I finally gave up, then called PyramydAir to speak to a technician to recount my tale of woe.
          She recommended this as a possible option, since I refuse to use anything that will not allow me to use my Weaver-style Leupold PRW rings.


          Even though this UTG adapter says adjustable in the description, the technician said that referred only to the multiple cuts allowing for and aft adjustment of the rings.
          It also costs less than 1/4 as much as the garbage B-Square adapter that caused me so much grief.
          I already put it on order, and the technician gave me an RMA to send back the sorry excuse of a (now broken) crappy B-Square 17021 adapter.
          Caveat emptor.
          If you ever ponder this 17021 adapter, unless you intend to use it on a PCP or other non-recoiling gun, don’t even think about it.
          It is junk.
          I will let you know how the UTG adapter works, once I get my hands on it.

          • Oldpink,

            I unscoped my CFX and re installed the rear open site a long time ago. I guessed that I would have a hard time keeping the scope secure after two different rings not working and would spend more time and/or money than the gun warranted. looks like I was right. Sorry to hear of your calamity. Hope the new set up works for you. If my CFX was a TX200 it would be a different story completely, for ME anyway.

            I am very interested in the final result with your mounting woes, please do keep us informed.


          • oldpink,

            By the way, is that a plastic or metal trigger model you have there? Is the gas ram a conversion? I am interested in the comparison of before and after if it is.


            • KidAgain, I am pleased to say that the UTG adapter seems able to do what the B-Square could not.
              I am going to modify it a bit by drilling out the recoil stop screw hole to accept the stop screw in the mangled base that came with the rifle, since it is considerably stouter and because it is the exact same size as the stop hole in the rifle’s receiver top.
              I like the extra level of confidence and strength.
              The rifle seems to hold a zero now, and those excellent Leupold rings do not permit even a hint of slip now.

              Regarding your question about the gas ram, yes, it was a conversion I had done by PA when the stock mainspring broke.
              It was made by Air Venturi, even though it is now made by Crosman and called the Nitro Piston.
              The firing behavior is definitely much more aggressive with this particular make of gas ram, as I noticed the difference with the first shot when it came back.
              Also, the problem with the scope sliding rearward in the rings did not show up until after I had the gas ram installed.
              The advantages of gas rams are pretty decisive, and the three I especially like are durability, ability to keep cocked indefinitely, and no spring rattle or twist on firing.
              I have been told that the much more expensive Theoben gas rams are considerably smoother firing and (at least according the the guy on the Gateway to Airguns site) possibly even more powerful.

              In answer to your other question, I am fortunate indeed that my CFX is the old model that came with the metal trigger, which I wasted little time replacing with CharlieDaTuna’s excellent GRT-III trigger.
              The trigger replacement was so easy that anyone who knows how to turn a screwdriver and Torx wrench could have done it, since that was all the tools it took to do, and I had it swapped out in about fifteen minutes.
              Having installed the GRT-III, I truly feel pity for anyone having to settle for the new model CFX that comes with the plastic trigger.
              I am doubly glad that I chose to buy a .22 caliber CFX within the very narrow window of time that they could still be purchased.

              • oldpink,

                Thanks for the feed back. I’ve been flip flopping on the move to either improve CFX, or replace it. If I wasn’t as cheap as I am I would’ve had the gas piston done last year! I’m working on a centerfire and don’t have the budget until it’s done.

                What do you use your CFX for mostly? Hunting?


                • I have a centerfire myself, although I have had it for over twenty years now, a Ruger M77 .30-06 that produces 1″ five shot groups at 100 yards with two of my handloads.
                  And, yes, I mainly use my Gamo for hunting, specifically starlings, sparrows and (if I ever spot one around here) pigeons.
                  The results are decisive when I smack one of them with a JSB Exact Jumbo pellet.
                  btw…this CFX manages 0.44″ five shot groups @ 25 yards with that pellet.

                  • oldpink,

                    Nice, very encouraging for the Gamo. I will most likely improve the Gamo after I replace it.

                    M77 30-06 is a nice package. 1″/100yds is good shootin”.


                • I liked the UTG adapter pretty well, except that it is rather short on top, making scope positioning very limited.
                  I also wish it had no overhang, allowing for more clamping surface and more rigidity.
                  I later bought another brand of aircraft aluminum adapter rail that was much longer on top, with four clamp screws, and this time, it was a snap to get the scope positioned.
                  It holds perfectly, and I had it totally sighted in within fifteen shots.
                  I finally have my end solution in place.

      • I have the UTG adapter installed, and so far, it seems to do the trick.
        I intend to modify it a bit by drilling out the recoil stop screw hole to fit the stop from the old stock Gamo aluminum base the rifle came with, since it is over twice the diameter as the stop screw on the UTG adapter and the exact same size as the stop hole on the top of the rifle’s receiver.
        So far, so good.

  8. BB:
    Very nice Webley, will look forward to your review of it. I have a .177 Beeman imported Tempest and like mine very much. Not a target gun, but built like a tank, and is more portable than the current crop of springer air pistols. Most of those would make better carbines than pistols in my opinion.
    Nice SA also. What is the caliber? Take care, Robert.

      • BB: That’s the one to have. I wonder what the chamber throat is on your new revolver? The old Colts ran around .455 to .457 in the chamber throats, and the barrels went .454 across the grooves. The modern guns (post war) have barrels that usually run .451 to .452 , but the chamber throats are still the same size as the old model P’s. I have mostly just shot Rugers and a Webley but it’s something to be aware of with the .45 , as it affects accuracy when you hand load for it. BTW, do you have Dave Scovill’s book ” Loading the Peacemaker”? It’s a great resource and I have a spare copy if you’d like it. Just let me know and it’s yours. Robert.

  9. Hello, all!

    Been enjoying this blog for years, and figured it’s time to join the fun. I’m getting an RWS 34P Panther in .22 and would like input on ammo.

    I’m looking at Crosman Premiers, RWS Hobbies, and Beeman Field Target Specials (all in .22, of course). From time to time I’ll be taking care of pests like squirrels/rabbits, but mostly want accuracy for target plinking. Thoughts?

  10. B.B.,

    Thanks for the picture of your Uberti pistol. The contrast between the blued cylinder and color case hardened frame looks great. Let us know what load you finally settle on and also, if you please, and also why you chose that barrel length. I’ve been looking at them off and on for far too long now. Getting to be time to thumb the hammer.

    Mr B.

    • Dean,

      Welcome! Glad you finally posted.

      I think with your pellet selection you’re headed in the right direction for determining which one your gun likes best. For the power in the 34p I think the heavier pellets have a better chance of accuracy.

      Some diana 34 guns surprise their owners and are most accurate with a lighter weight pellet. Most I’ve read about prefer heavier though.


    • Dean – I would consider 14.3 JSB’s to be a medium weight pellet, and the Baracuda’s at 21.1 grains to be heavy. My model 34 .177 loves 8.4 grain JSB exacts and doesn’t seem to shoot heavier pellets very well. My .22 cal model 52 does best with the 15.8 grain JSB’s and doesn’t shoot the 14.3 grain pellets quite as well. It’s just been my experience that RWS guns like JSB pellets, so I would try some of the different weights and see what your gun seems to like best. Also, I would check out the Leaper’s scope base for RWS guns if you plan on mounting a scope, and get some blue locktite (#242) for the stock screws. The 34 is a great gun, have fun, shoot lots!!

      • C-S,
        I like that name Stuka. Tomorrow I will call them Stuka and see what my fellow fisherman say. There are just me and my fishing buddy in the boat plus the guide you saw at the back of the boat. He is an Ojibwa Native Indian. He drives the boat, guides us to the good spots, cleans the fish, cooks shore lunch, cleans the boat, takes the fish off the hook and some times even baits our hooks. Man, we are so spoiled! Soon, he’ll probably do all our fishing for us and tell us later how we did 🙂

        • CJr,

          Laughing at your description “Soon, he’ll probably do all our fishing for us and tell us later how we did”. Now that’s my kind of fishin’!


  11. CJr,

    I’d sure like to see what your catching with bait that big.LOL Looks like a great time–beautiful fish! Muskies, right?

    I’ve been meaning to ask you, how doers Mr T like running on air? The CO2 is nice for back yard plinking. HPA is rather amazing in the amount of power it produces., but still good on PW 3/4 for the back yard.

    Mr B.

    • Mr B,
      Orin wins the prize. They are Northern Pike. A lot of fun to catch.

      Mr T loves air. I’m happy with air, too. It’s more consistent than CO2 plus the tank is smaller diameter than CO2 and has a nice shoulder bracket on it. It’s very easy to fill from a Scuba tank and switch back to Ms M and back with the quick disconnect adapters. And, yes, more power, although that’s not important to me at this point.

  12. AlanL,
    The book you sent is incredible. The craftsmanship that went into those old holsters and gun belts is truly amazing. The refinement and minute detail in the rigs to provide comfort to the wearer is really remarkable to me considering the designs are over 150 years old. Thank you very much for your generosity.

  13. Just wanted to say I got two new badass guns. One is the Daisy Red Ryder, 79th anniversary edition, and the second is a daisy Powerline 953.

    I was impressed with both guns accuracy, I expected it from the 953, but the Red Ryder was knocking cans down very well. Great guns, I recommend either of them.


    • Ryan

      You must have somehow gained control of derrick38 and Volvo’s airgun time machine but went forward in time rather than back. The rest of us have to settle for the 70th anniversary edition, but how is the 79th? Are they entirely made of plastic?

      I really like both guns as well. My 953 shoots much better with the single shot trey. I also dumped the stock fiber optics and got the Daisy rear peep and front globe sight (with only ONE stinking insert) }:^(

      It shoots better with the new sights, but Chuck would still clean my clock.

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