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Ammo Testing the BSF S20 and Webley Hurricane for accuracy

Testing the BSF S20 and Webley Hurricane for accuracy

by Tom Gaylord, The Godfather of Airguns™
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

Parts 1 & 2
Part 3

BSA Scorpion BSF S20 Webley Hiurricane
The big three air pistols of the 1970s are from the top — BSA Scorpion, BSF S20 Match and finally the Webley Hurricane. Today, we’ll look at the accuracy of the BSF and the Webley.

This report covers:

• I didn’t test the shoulder stock
• How the test was conducted
• BSF S20 Match air pistol
• Summary of the BSF air pistol
• Webley Hurricane air pistol
• Summary of the Hurricane air pistol
• Afterthoughts

Today’s report is a look at the accuracy of the vintage BSF S20 Match pistol and the Webley Hurricane pistol that I compared for velocity in Parts 1 and 2 of the test of the BSA Scorpion pistol. I compared them because they were contemporaries of the BSA pistol, and because, in their day, these 3 were considered to be the most powerful air pistols around.

I didn’t test the shoulder stock
There was some discussion of a shoulder stock for the Scorpion in the comments. Blog reader David Enoch brought one of his Scorpions with a shoulder stock to the Ft. Worth airgun show and offered to let me test it for you. I decided not to test it, however, because in my experience, shoulder stocks on pistols of any kind don’t work. I’ve tested them on Broomhandle Mauser firearms and on the Beeman P1, and they never increased the accuracy of the gun. If anything, they made the pistols less accurate because they’re wobbly by their very nature. I suspect this is why the shoulder stocks found on Colt blackpowder revolvers were never very popular.

Scorpion shoulder stock
David Enoch was selling his BSA Scorpion with the detachable shoulder stock at the 2014 Ft. Worth airgun show.

I discussed this with David, and he agreed that the Scorpion shoulder stock is very wobbly and flimsy. I could feel that it was just by holding the stock alone. I’m also not interested in testing the Scorpion any further — just in testing the 2 similar vintage pistols as a comparison with the Scorpion.

Don’t extrapolate what I’m saying to include the R.A.I. adapter and AR-15 shoulder stock. That’s a completely different story. It’s just as rigid as a standard rifle buttstock.

How the test was conducted
I shot both pistols from a rested position at 10 meters using a 2-hand hold. This is the same way I shot the Scorpion. I also used the same pellets in this test — so everything is as equal as I can make it. I gave each pistol one shot to wake up the powerplant, then shot a 10-shot group with every pellet. I’ll test the BSF S20 Match first.

BSF S20 Match air pistol
Like the BSA Scorpion, the BSF S20 Match also looks like a small air rifle that’s been converted into a pistol. Unlike the Scorpion, though, the S20 is very easy to cock — requiring no cocking aid. Also the single-stage trigger is the lightest one among the 3 pistols being tested. It’s adjustable, but BSF triggers have a nasty habit of going off by themselves when adjusted too light, so I have this one adjusted as heavy as it will go. And it’s still pretty light.

The first pellet tested was the Crosman Premier lite (7.9-grain). Where this pellet was loose in the Scorpion, it fit the S20 breech very tight. I did try deep-seating the pellets with the Air Venturi Pellet Seater, but it did not improve things.

Ten pellets went into 1.99 inches between centers at 10 meters. As you can see, this group is spread out, so I don’t think Premier lites are right for this pistol.

BSF S20 Crosman Premier lite target
Not a good group for only 10 meters. Ten Premier lites in 1.99 inches.

Next up were RWS Hobby pellets. Hobbys are larger than Premiers, so I expected even more resistance at loading, but they slipped into the breech easier than the Premiers. I think the rifling must go all the way to the end of the breech and the hard alloy of the Premiers is what’s causing the resistance, rather than their size.

Ten Hobbys made a 1.855-inch group, although 7 of those pellets went into 0.674 inches. That leads me to believe that there’s a particular hold for the pistol that will make it group best. I was probably using that hold most of the time, but not always. Naturally, I did try to be consistent on every shot, but sometimes the difference can be too subtle to spot.

BSF S20 RWS Hobby pellet target
This group of 10 Hobbys shows some promise. It measures 1.855 inches, but 7 are in 0.674 inches.

The final pellet I tried was the RWS Superdome, which the Scorpion liked a lot. In the BSF, 10 Superdomes went into a 2.378-inch group that had a single outlier. Nine of the 10 pellets are in 1.166 inches.

BSF S20 RWS Superdome target
This group of RWS Superdomes doesn’t look too bad until you see that hole at the bottom right. Ten in 2.378 inches, with 9 in 1.166 inches.

Summary of the BSF air pistol
That ended the test of the BSF. Please understand that if I’d tested other pellets and if I’d experimented with different holds, the pistol might have done much better. But I didn’t do any of that with the Scorpion, either, and it still shot well.

I like how easy the S20 cocks, I like its light trigger and I like how it sits in my hand. But it just doesn’t stack up against the BSA Scorpion.

Webley Hurricane air pistol
The Webley Hurricane was the other contemporary of the Scorpion, and in the velocity test we learned that the Hurricane is more powerful than the BSF, though not as powerful as the Scorpion.

Cocking the Hurricane varied from heavy and smooth, to a grinding pull that doubled the effort. The trigger is single-stage and very crisp. And the firing behavior is quite different from the other 2 pistols. Both of them rock in your hand when they fire, while the Hurricane just pulses. It’s a much more positive feel.

The Hurricane put 10 Premier lites into 1.229 inches at 10 meters. It’s fairly good, but nowhere near what the Scorpion can do.

BSF S20 Crosman Premier lite target
The Hurricane put 10 Premier lites into 1.229 inches at 10 meters.

Next up were the Hobbys, which gave a very vertical group. It measures 1.339 inches between centers, so it’s a little larger than the Premier group.

Hurricane RWS Hobby pellet target
Ten Hobbys made this 1.399-inch group at 10 meters.

The final pellet for the Hurricane was the RWS Superdome. I didn’t look at the target until I walked downrange to take it down, which is when I saw a tight little 0.792-inch cluster. This is clearly a very good pellet for this pistol!

BSF S20 RWS Superdome target
Now, that’s a group! Ten Superdomes in 0.729 inches from the Webley.

Summary of the Hurricane air pistol
I don’t know what I thought I would get from the Hurricane, but that last group surprised me. I’ve always thought of the Hurricane as a powerful, yet rough spring pistol; but compared it to these other 2 vintage guns that are similar to each other, this one is nicer than I remembered. I especially like the smooth firing behavior and the crisp trigger.

Now that this test is complete, I find myself wondering how the Beeman P1 and the P17 would stack up against these oldies. Oh, well. I guess that’s what keeps this blog rolling!

92 thoughts on “Testing the BSF S20 and Webley Hurricane for accuracy”

  1. BB
    Then you have to make a comment about the Crosman 1399 stock since you mentioned Dave’s AR adapters.

    I haven’t used on of the stocks like you shown for the Scorpion. But I can see that it looks kind of on the flimsy side.

    The 1399 stock is actually pretty rigid. And without all doubt I could shoot the Marauder pistol, 1720T, 2240, 1377, 1322 and 2300s better with the 1399 stock. Heck I even had a pistol grip assembly and 1399 stock on my double tube Marauder that Lloyd made for me and also one of the Discovery’s I had.

    So I myself put great faith in the 1399 stocks and Dave’s RAI adapters. They work for me.

    Sorry but you make it sound like a shoulder stock doesn’t work and maybe you do believe that. But I have to say what I have seen from my experiences.

  2. I say make ’em earn their keep and keep this comparison going! One day,hopefully soon, I’ll be very interested in the P-17.I’ve got a multi pump mod and maybe .22 conversion that would wring some power out of one.

    • Yes that’s the Shadow, one piece short moulded stock, a cut down Buccaneer stock, that certainly makes the gun easier to shoot for me. Until i saw the photo above I had never seen a separate shoulder stock for the Scorpion, not sire they were ever that common here in the soon to be Disunited Kingdom. I think the issue was the need to cut attachment holes in the plastic stock.

      I was surprised by the performance of the Hurricane. The Webley pistols are wonderful things but I rather thought the BSF (even though older) would outshoot it.

      • Why are you surprised? Is it because it was made in Germany? So? German engineering is usually very complicated, not necessarily better. Who invented the modern sproinger in the first place? I’ll give you a hint, it was not the Germans. 😉

        • No indeed, I think (and correct me if wrong) the first viable spring-piston guns were the American De Havilland/Quackenbush designs. Surely the first in mass production? BSF barrels have always struck me as precision items, and as good as their Webley contemporaries, if not better. The British overlevers are always more challenging to shoot well, or perhaps that’s just me!

          • Oliver,

            I think the Germans also had early spring pistols. I once tested a push lever lock by the makers of the Original Will bugelspanners that was made in the 1870s. A contemporary of the Haviland a Gunn?

            Not very accurate, though.


          • Actually, the first “viable”, and by that I mean worth owning, spring piston air rifle was invented in Birmingham, England by a gentleman by the name of Lincoln Jefferies in 1904. BSA worked out a deal with him and made over 10,000 of them in 1906 alone.

            Yes, there were other spring piston airguns out there before then, but they were quite primitive in comparison. Lincoln Jefferies quite literally revolutionized the world of modern airguns.

      • Oliver,

        I expected the BSF to do better than it did, too. It has a fine trigger and good sights. But for some reason, the accuracy just wasn’t there. If I had bet before running this test I would have put the BSF first, the Webley second and the Scorpion last. How wrong is that?

        The RWS Diana LP8 is another big spring pistol that surprises me. They shoot like little rifles, when I would bet they couldn’t hit a barn door.


      • Oliver
        You have shot the rifle versions of the gun?

        If you have shot the Scorpion also. Can you tell if one is better than the other as far as vibration and recoil. I was wondering if the stock helped dampen the action.

        • Only the Shadow (mine is a Shadow stock with a ‘Scorpion’ receiver, a matching of parts which was I think almost normal BSA practice), which I like and find it shoots well and reliably. Vibration much easier to control, though the early synthetic stocks can be a bit buzzy. Never fired a Buccaneer, and they were, I believe, an acquired taste. I do not like bench resting the Scorpion and always use it two handed, which may explain my lack of success with it.

      • BB
        I imagine it would take a little doing to come up with one of the rifle variations of the Scorpion.

        If I would of made it to the Texas show I would of defiantly of been interested in one of the rifle versions. Maybe not so much the Shadow but definitely one of the longer barrel variants.

        Do you know if there was any at the Texas show?

  3. I for one am not surprised that the Webley did well. Every one that I have held or fired was a well built pistol. It was well balanced, the grip was comfortable and the firing cycle was short, smooth and most importantly, as one would expect.

    I know it is just my opinion, but hey, those others are just plain ugly in every respect. The Hurricane is no small pistol. Those things are HUGE! Even if they are light, that makes them cumbersome.

    The majority of their recoil is forward and centered in front of the hand, while with the Hurricane it is backward into the hand and centered over the hand.

    These other pistols look like something a marketeer would come up with while the engineering of the Webleys rival that of Lincoln Jefferies.

    Hey, just my not so humble opinion.

  4. In your opinion, does the stock offered with the Marauder pistol help with accuracy? I have heard that it is not too stable and that there are some after-market stocks that attach more firmly.

    • Michael
      That is the Crosman 1399 stock that comes with the Marauder pistol. You have to get you one and see for yourself.
      I have had several of them over the years and no problems with them at all.

      And it seems everyday somebody comes up with a new aftermarket stock for the Benjamin/Crosman pistols. I’m exagirating but there is a variaty out there.

      • I have heard of people putting a .010″ shim on the bottom of the metal pistol grip then sliding the 1399 stock on and tightening the screws. That’s suppose to keep the stock from moving up and down.

        But I have not had to do that. Mine have all fit tight so far.

    • The stock that comes with the Marauder pistol (1399) most definitely helps with accuracy. Sometimes they are a loose fit. I put black electrical tape on the side of the grip, then slid the stock over the tape. It is now rock solid with no movement.

      The comb is a little low for proper eye placement and a good cheek weld. Some folks put foam pipe insulation on top of the comb to lift their eye up to the correct position.

      • All that is said above sounds like a lot of fiddling around with something that should work. My experience with Crosman products has been very good over the years. Does anyone know of an aftermarket stock that wouldn’t need so much “adjusting”?

  5. BB,
    On a unrelated topic, I just wanted to say thank you. I’ve been a springer user for years, learning proper hold, finding the right pellets, detuning to reduce shot action … Recently, I purchased a Marauder .177 Gen 2. All I can say is WOW. It cut my best springer groups in half at all distances and with consistent repeatability. 1/2″ groups are 50 yards are indeed possible. The only change I made was to drop velocity down which you posted exactly how to do it. Also, your little videos on loading pellets and how to properly use a pump available at PA were also of value. I delayed a PCP for years because I wasn’t 100% sure what I was getting into. No regrets now. Thank you for all you do to help us novice users enjoy the sport.

    • TC
      I keep telling people the same thing about pcp guns.

      I had a few springer’s and nitro piston guns but the pcp’s are definitely smooth shooters. And once you finally get support equipment so your don’t have to pump anymore then they become even more enjoyable.

      I got my .25 cal. synthetic stock Marauder setting by the breezeway door waiting for action.

      Did you get the wood or synthetic stock?

          • Gunfun
            I have had a very productive and rewarding day. I told you I was going to go get my machining completed on my 2 2240 projects and everything went like clockwork, got the 853 barrel valve assy spigot machined off and the lead in and chamfer for the bolt probe done and then the transfer port and spot face for the port seal completed and it turned out perfect. the barrel fit the breech and the transfer port line up exactly in the breech, one step out of the way.

            Then got the hipac tubes relieved for the o-ring sealing surface’s and they came out good, had to get a tap to clean up the threads in the tubes and lucked out as they are 20mm x1.5 pitch, not a tap you can just buy at your hardware store. We have a local machinist supply house here that carries those one off items such as that uncommon tap and they had a barely used one that I was able to sweet talk them out of for 15 bucks ( normal list was 90 bucks ) and it worked perfect to clean the threads so the tubes go together very smoothly and line up with no gap at the extension joints. I did have to juggle the tubes around to get the best fit between the 6 pieces for the 2 complete cylinders for both guns. The one for the 22 cal is filled to 2k and setting over night to see if it hold and if it does I will go up to 3k tomorrow and let it set overnight to make sure it holds before I put the gun together. Then it on to the 177 lothar walther barreled 2240 for my hunter class matches.

            My nitro springer is in the mail and should be her Wednesday per the tracking number so every thing is coming together.

            Got my 100Gram weight to calibrate the scale I got and it is very accurate as the 10.5gr 177 CP weigh exactly 10.5gr, the Eley bullet shaped pellets that the chart I sent you shows them weighing 30gr just like the chart says, there are some differences in the weight of them if you sample ten or so but only by .01 or.02 tenths. So it is cool to be able to select pellets that are exactly the same weight. It is time consuming and I will probably not do it that much except[ maybe for the hunter class matches.

            I am in much better frame of mind now as the hipac issues I hope are behind me and all that is left is to get them put together and enjoy. I may try your 2600 fill pressure and see if I can set my hammer spring to work best at that fill pressure. I will let you know how I progress thru the weekend.


            • buldawg
              You have been busy haven’t you.

              Oh no. Now your going to start weighing pellets for the hunter class field target matches. Why would you do that. 😉

              Next thing you know you will be measuring the head and skirt size of each pellet. 🙂

              • I’d be sorting pellets if I was competing! Use your knowledge and tools to get the best results you’re comfortable with. But too much work can take up too much fun time. I’d thoroughly enjoy watching some teen or younger clean house with a bulkfilled 1077!

              • Gunfun
                That’s what happens when you have to much timed on your hands and you have a good day to drag you up out of the rut you fell in. I was just playing with my scale and decided to weigh several pellets to see how close they kept their quality standards to and if the scales accuracy was repeatable. I don’t know if I will start weighing them for the hunter class, but I would like to get some CPs in the boxes to see if they are more uniform in there weights than the ones in the tins and measuring them well if you are going to weigh them you got to measure also don’t you.

                The 22 cal hipac tube is still holding 2600 psi that I pumped it up to before I went to bed last night and there is no gaps between the tubes so the O-rings cannot get out, going to finish put it together later this AM and get it tuned. HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY

                I am holding off on the 177 because my neighbor work ouit at the army depot here building tanks and he said to give a couple of the o-rings that it uses and he would check to see if he can come up with some better grade material and slighty larger in o-ring size to make even a better seal that cannot fail, so if uncle sam can provide me with some better quality one I will let him.


                • buldawg and Reb
                  I have had good luck with the heavy premiers in the box. Matter of fact that’s what my .177 cal. Hatsan likes the best.

                  And glad your getting some where with the hi-pac finally. You got to at least get one of them together so you can see how they shoot.

                  I have been looking some more for the .25 cal. breech and barrel for my 2240 with the hi-pac. I found one place last night while I was searching on my phone and forgot to save it. I will have to find it later and post it. But it was reasonable. It was like $35 for the breech and $35 for the barrel. It was a single shot and looked alot like the Crosman steel breech and they turned the barrel to fit like how I did that 60c barrel. And if I remember right they even had a big bore version that was 9mm/.357 cal. They weren’t shrouded though. And It wasn’t Dennis Q’s breech and barrels it was a different company.

                  And about the only time I really weigh and measure the heads and skirts any more is if I’m having a gun that’s not wanting to cooperate in the accuracy department.

                  But if I was competing even in the hunter class of field target shooting I would for sure be measuring and weighing me enough for that day of shooting and some extra for sighting. Maybe even washing those pellets. Me and buldawg already talked about the cleaning. And were not going to say how that came about. Right. 😉

                  • I got to liking the one that Diaboloslinger came up with,Didn’t it go to .25 with a shroud? I wonder what the chances of a guy shrouding a barrel,as opposed to someone fitting a muzzle break, would incur of being in trouble.Would ATF be as stringent if the device were attached at more than one place on the gun to the extent that relocation would be next to impossible. A quick search rendered this:
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO82J0Qxgrk but I’ve looked before and it’s hard to find any information in language intended for general public translation.So if anyone finds something that every other word has to be looked up please share below.


                  • Gunfun
                    Yea it feels good to have the 22 cal hipac done and ready to be tuned and sighted, I just have decided whet sight to use on it .I am thinking about putting my TF-90 on it to make it a backyard plinker and that would my oldest grandson happy as he has wanted to try a red dot sight for awhile now so that’s most likely what it will get for now at least.

                    That 25 breech and barrel, were they from BNM customs, when you remember and find the link send it to me as for 70 bucks I may even consider getting one to try out a 25 cal or maybe even a 357. That would be cool to have a little 357 in the 2240 package even if you could only get 5 or 10 shots from it. Definitely send me the link when you find it.

                    Yea I am going to see how it shoot first and if it is very accurate at fifty yards then I will get more serious about the pellets and weights and dia. Remember that some of the targets will be at 100 yards so I may have to go up the 13gr pellets to reach out that far.

                    Yea are pellets accuracy formula is going to be kept secret for sure as that is something no one else could come up with that’s for sure.


                    • buldawg and Reb

                      Here is the link I was talking about but I don’t see how to order. Maybe I’m missing something. But here it is.


                      And buldawg I don’t think any body will come up with that formula for cleaning pellets. That’s one of those accidental discoveries. Maybe it will go side by side with discovering Dr. Pepper, Pepsi, Coke and maybe even Coors light. 😉

                  • Gunfun
                    Yea no one will come up with that special formula for pellet accuracy and it would go right their with Coors light, if they only knew they would make a fortune twice over.
                    It would be akin to using Coke to revive an old battery or remove rust from an old piece of metal.

                    Here try this link instead as I have heard of them and glanced thru their stuff, but never paid close enough attention to see the big bore breeches and barrels.



                    • buldawg
                      Thanks. I’m going to give them a call next week.

                      Definitely going to find out about the .25 cal. stuff and just for the heck of it the .357 cal.

                      Just like you said before. If the 357 will only give 5 to 10 good shots I would be happy. I ain’t looking for long range shooting with a 2240 hi-pac 357. It would probably be a expensive plinker or target practice gun. Maybe it would make enough fpe though for close range hunting?

                    • buldawg
                      Yep the old guy that taught me about cars said they use to clean radiators out with Coca Cola. But I think they changed that formula. I heard that the old version of Coke had some of the version of the drug in it even. I don’t know how true any of that is but I know it was a pretty strong story that more than one person heard of through time in my younger days.

              • Gunfun & Reb
                One 22 cal hipac together and holding 2800 psi and sounds mean and nasty like a 22 LR going off.
                I won’t get to tune it today as I have a birthday party to go to for my oldest grandson so the rest of the afternoon is booked up. But it is together and holding air so I am satisfied with my work and will sight and tune tomorrow.

                It is going to rain later today any way and then be cool and clear most of next week so I am at least making progress.


                • buldawg
                  Sounds like your getting somewhere and mine is still holding good at the 2600 psi good. When I get that .25 cal. stuff for it I’m going to go up to 3000 psi. Remember I still got the factory seal in mine. So this will be a good test to see if it holds up.

                  And we are on the way to the eye doc in a minute and when we get back its grass cutting time. I had to work yesterday to make up one of the days I stayed home when I was sick. So this day is probably done for me. May shoot a bit this evening. Will see.

                  • Gunfun
                    I just bought a Benjamin Titan GP 22 cal nitro piston rifle for 115 shipped with a GRTIII trigger and dovetail mounted bubble level with a 4×32 center point scope that is in very good condition. I got it to use the GRTIII trigger in my nitro venom 177 cal gun along with the bubble level for mounting scopes level and to put the scope on one of my other backyard plinkers and then resell the benji to make my money back. I may look and see if the nitro piston parts will fit my firepower and if so swap out the parts and sell the benji as a spring gun as it has the keyhole type stock that I don’t really care for so I will have to shoot it to be sure I want to sell it or I may just keep it. I just could not pass it up with the GRTIII trigger as it was not advertised in the auction as having one but the gold colored trigger gave it away, you just had to look close in the one pic to see it and then the bubble level and scope all together for 85 plus 30 shipping. It was just a steal because I think I can swap trigger with my venom and keep the scope and still get my money back.

                    I have one watcher on my whisper that ends tomorrow and I am hoping they will bid in the last hour of the auction so it will be sold. You have got me hooked on the ease of a spring gun as to not needing anything but pellets and the gun to have some fun and accurate plinking/shooting. Besides I need to get some extra gun money built back up so I can get a 25 cal breech and barrel for my 2240 or 2289 to get into the bigger calibers. The 30 caliber barrel is for the Mrods and Prods not the 2240s if I read it right.

                    I just have been bitten by the springer fever and it will not go away, besides I can always enjoy them for awhile and then sell like you do to get a new toy.


                    • buldawg
                      That does sound like a good deal. And if you switch stuff around on your other guns even more better. And yes a good spring gun or nitro piston is for sure fun to shoot. Its nice to be done shooting and put your gun away and be ready for the next time with out having to fill things back up.

                      But…. here we are looking at .300” plus pcp guns. And I will check more about the 357 stuff. And I will still be happy with the .25 cal. breech and barrel though. I got a bunch of .25 cal. pellets and nothing for the .357 cal. as far as air guns are concerned. So that would be another caliber to buy for.

                  • Gunfun
                    Let me know what you find out because I am interested also in both the 25 and 357 calibers as well as the 30 cal.

                    Yea I am just hooked on the good springer’s and the whisper in not one of them so I hope it sells quick so I can recoup some money. I will have to wait to see what all can be swapped between the Benji and the Firepower. I did some more research and to put a gas piston in the firepower I would need the rear piston cap, plain plate, piston and the end plug along with the gas spring because the gas spring is held in the receiver completely different than a coil spring. So that is why I got the benji so that I can hopefully swap all those parts into the firepower and resell the benji for close to what I paid and hopefully save some instead of buying all the parts new from crosman as the gas spring was 26 bucks and I am sure by the time you add up the other 5 parts it would be in the 50 to 60 dollar range so if the parts will swap and I can get the 85 plus shipping back for the benji then I will have got the conversion for free. And a GRTIII trigger as well.

                    I will let you know how it works out and if I like the 22 springer or not.


                  • Gunfun
                    The original formula for Coca Cola did have cocaine in it until the late forties or early fifties I believe I am not sure when it was removed but why do think it was so addicting back in the 30s and 40s. Heck every one was running around hyped up with out even knowing it and that’s was part of the Roaring twenties also. Marijuana was legal until the late fifties also and it was made illegal by the stroke of a pen not because it was dangerous or caused health problems but because the president at the time did not like it and signed a piece of paper making it illegal. much the same as Obozo is doing right now with the illegal immigrants and gun laws and all the other things he has gone and bypassed congress to sign into law.
                    Why do we even have a House of representatives and a Senate when Obozo just bypasses them to do as he pleases and neither the House or the Senate can agree on anything any way, so much for our government for the people ,by the people and of the people.


                  • Gunfun
                    I got an experiment for you to show you just how corrosive Coke is , take a piece of beef and put it in a pan and cover it with Coke and come back to it in a week and it will be mostly gone because Coke and almost all other sodas are mainly phosphoric acid and it will dissolve the piece of beef in a week or so. So just think what it does to your stomach when you drink it.


                    • buldawg
                      I have heard that. And you wonder how our stomachs survive if it will eat that meat up.

                      And how about the vinegar trick with a egg or chicken bone. It basically turns to rubber.

                  • Gunfun
                    It is amazing the stuff we put in our bodies that would otherwise dissolve or degrade other forms of meat or bone and yet it does no apparent harm to us in the short term, but over an extended time frame will cause all kinds of symptoms and disease and yet we continue to do the very things that are destroying us. I can be proof of that in that I smoked for 45 years and only when my life was on that thin line between life or death I woke up and came to the choice that I should have made how many countless years ago or never started in the first place.

                    In those brief moments you realize what is really important and what is just a habit you started and never found the right reason to stop now becomes easier than continuing in your old habits and ways. They say with age comes wisdom, but sometimes that wisdom has always been there and it just needs a kick in the rear to bring it into the forefront of your mind. It was one year ago August 28th that I quit smoking and looking back it was one of the easiest thing I have ever done once my mind made the choice to do so and I will never start again.


  6. One pistol a shoulder shock does seem to work well on is the Glock 18. It’s select fire and with a drum magazine it’s something. Probably not very practical but fun.
    Do a You Tube search for Knob Creek Glock 298 rounds and have a look.


  7. Yesterday I did something very unusual (for me). I made a shopping trip and bought a new firearm I’ve only owned four powder-burners, and the other three were acquired used.

    I went to the Cabela’s store in Sidney, NE. The first thing that caught my eye in the gun department was a display of antique classic Daisy BB guns high on the wall behind the gun counter. On the wall was a sister to my 1960 Model 25. It, too, was a 1960, and had the same warp in the stock as the one I rebuilt.

    I thought about replacing the stock, too, but after replacing the barrel, the shot tube, the piston and cylinder, the cocking linkage, and the trigger group, I really didn’t have much of the 1960 gun left. So I kept the stock.

    My wife and I often see the Henry commercials. She thought I ought to have one of those, and I agreed. I bought one of the .22LR basic versions. The Golden Boy version shown in the commercial was $200 more and looked to me to be too nice to use.

    Of course, I still needed some ammo. The store was basically out of .22LR, but saved enough back to sell some to buyers of new guns. So I got 100 rounds.

    I found a local gun store that was out of .22, but was expecting a small amount that afternoon. I returned and bought another 200 rounds.

    The gun has a blued barrel, a painted (powder-coated?) receiver, and a very nice walnut stock and forearm. It weighs 5.25 lb., lighter than many of my springers. And it is small! When I placed it in my gun cabinet, I noticed it was almost exactly the same dimensions as a Red Ryder (it is heavier than a RR).

    Small and light, it could be carried around all day. I am interested in fitting it with a sling, but the narrow woodwork looked like it would be likely to crack if swivels were attached directly to it. But there is a saddle maker in town who can build leather loops that can go over the forestock and stock to mount a sling without needing to drill holes.

    I am looking forward to trying this gun out.


    • Les
      That sounds like a nice little gun. I like the idea of how light it is.

      I still take my old Winchester 190 I got when I was a kid and shoot it here and there. Its a light gun also. Its still in good shape but no way as nice a gun as what you just got I’m sure.

      I would like to know how your new gun shoot’s when you get a chance to try it out.

    • Led Congratulations, I don’t own any powder burners yet but that rifle is on my short list if I ever do get my license. Good you could find ammo as well, happy shooting Sir.

    • Desertdweller,

      Congrats on the new Henry. I have had the same model for about 10 years or so. Nice little gun (like you said it really is small). I never considered putting sling swivel studs on mine so I can’t give any advice there. I put a very basic 3-9 x 32 scope on mine and since the scope is small too it doesn’t overpower the whole look of the combo. If you are thinking about scoping it, I would suggest a hammer side extender. Also, although I think you can drift the rear sight out of its dovetail, I would also consider high rings, and\or a scope with a fairly small objective. With high rings my scope did fit with the rear sight left in place(by about 2 mm!). Let the fun commence!!!

      David H

      • I bought a little 4×15 Tasco scope, but haven’t checked the clearances yet. I thought the little scope wouldn’t overpower the look of the little gun.

        Couldn’t find any reviews of this gun, so it is good to hear it works well for you. It did come with a lifetime warranty.

        It was really tempting to drop another $200 for the Golden Boy model, but I tend to make display pieces of my really nice guns rather than using them as much as I should. I knew if I bought the Golden Boy, it would wind up in the case and seldom see the shooting range. I wanted something I would shoot a lot and really get good with it.

        This gun must have been designed as a saddle gun. Short, light, easy to handle.


        • I tried the 4×15 scope today. It will need taller rings to be able to work. I am unable to reach the hammer with the scope in place.

          I think this gun will work fine without a scope, like the Bronco. It is dwarfed by the Bronco, which is itself a small gun.


    • Your Daisy 1960 Mod 25 reminds me of a visit I made to the Tower of London a few years back..
      Those Beefeater guys have to put up with tourists from the entire world, and I think they’ve developed a somewhat tongue-in-cheek way of dealing with the endless repetition of same ‘ole-same-same ‘ole questions every day. But I think they save the better ones for the Yanks.
      “Sir,” says the fat lady from (insert your favorite US locale here,) “is it true that you still have the original ‘Headsman’s Ax’ from the old days?”
      “Oh, yes, young lady (the first departure from the entire truth,) despite some very attractive offers from both the middle-east as well as the far-east, we’ve opted to retain the original ‘Headsman’s Ax’…one never knows when one might need it again, does one? However, just in case international relations take a different turn, over the centuries we’ve taken the liberty of meticulously maintaining and upgrading the item. We’ve replaced the head three times and the handle four times,…but it’s still the original Ax.”

      • The replaced parts in the Mod 25 were all from Mod 25 guns of the same period. And they were replaced individually rather than as a donor gun. I wanted to do it this way so I could learn how to work on these guns. Had to build a spring compressor.

        Remaining original parts include the receiver, the rear sight, and the stock. It wasn’t obvious to me how the cocking mechanism worked, even after studying an exploded drawing. Also, the replacement of the trigger return spring was a mystery until it was explained to me.

        I have about $90 in this gun, including the price I paid for the basket case original. I could buy two new ones for this amount, but i wouldn’t have known how they worked or how to repair them. One of my other hobbies is building models, so the time I put into this rebuild was high-quality hobby time for me.


  8. Thanks for including all three in the same picture. I know you previously said that the Scorpion and BSF are big pistols but I really didn’t realize just how big they are until I saw the Hurricane right under them to provide a sense of scale! Those things are monsters.

  9. Buldawg,I don’t think the 822 will really help in a x53- multi pump conversion.I’d just like to hot rod one. I thought the check valve looked pretty easy to build and just mount to the face of the valve.

    • Reb
      To build and mount a check valve to the face of the valve would not be to difficult but then the piston in the 853 would have to be shortened by the same amount and I don’t think that would be so easily done, unless the piston of the 840 that I have which is shorter than the 853 but I believe the same dia could be made to work in the place of the 853 piston. I have not got a chance top check that out yet so I cannot say for sure, but I will when I get all my other projects completed.

      So the 822 would not be a donor for the 853 project. the one on GB will go to someone else as I just bought a Benji titian GP to use as a donor for some parts and to resell.


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