Best of B.B.: Crosman Mark I — a target pistol worthy of the name!

by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

This report covers:

  • Ruger Mark I copy
  • Crosman made it right!
  • How does it compare to the S&W pistols?
  • You can still get one!

Today I’m taking a break to be with my relatives who came to celebrate the Fourth of July with Edith and me. This report was written back in June 2005.

There have been some great airguns in the recent past, and today I’d like to take a look at one of them: Crosman’s Mark I Target pistol.

Β 07-03-15-01-Ruger-Mk-I
Crosman copied the Ruger Mark I semiauto rimfire handgun.

Ruger Mark I copy

Crosman copied Ruger’s most famous handgun, the Mark I semiautomatic .22-caliber pistol. Ruger introduced this pistol, which built their company, in 1949; the Mark I dominated the handgun world by the time Crosman first offered their Mark I target pistol in 1966. The Ruger is a 10-shot semiauto, while the Crosman is a single-shot.

Single-shots seem to bore a lot of shooters today, but target shooters all know that the most accurate mechanisms are those that load and fire manually. So, the single-shot Crosman Mark I is actually MORE ACCURATE than the .22 pistol it copies!

Crosman made it right!

When Crosman copied Ruger, they did several things that made their gun better. First, they gave their pistol an adjustable trigger that any Ruger owner would love to have. It can be adjusted down to mere ounces and has the proverbial glass-rod breaking point. Second, their gun had better grips than the Ruger. Theirs were more hand-filling, plus they gave it a thumbrest on the left side that Ruger never offered. Finally, they gave their gun a rifled barrel (in .22 caliber only) that was the finest of all air pistols for that caliber and time. A careful shot can group inside an inch at 50 feet — something a stock Ruger Mark I cannot do.

Crosman Mark I
Crosman’s Mark 1 Target pistol is a single-shot that runs on CO2.

Crosman’s Mark I is more attractive and even more accurate than the Ruger it copies. This one has aftermarket grips, but the rest is all Crosman. Adjustable rear sights and a Patridge front blade make for a perfect sight picture. Two power levels are determined when cocking by stopping at the first or second click while pulling forward on the cocking knobs located on both sides of the frame. The earlier versions of the gun could also have their power tweaked via a small screw in the front of the frame. All in all, a wonderful target air pistol.

How does it compare to the S&W pistols?

I was asked how the Mark I stacks up against the S&W 78G that I reported on in the Remembering Smith & Wesson’s pellet pistols posting. The Mark I is more accurate than the 78G, though I must say I like the feel of the S&W better.

Like S&W, Crosman also made this gun in .177; but unlike the S&W, theirs had a barrel that also accommodates BBs. It isn’t as accurate as the .22 or either of the S&W pistols. The Mark I is the more desirable gun.

You can still get one!

Even with its reputation as a great shooter, a Crosman Mark I pistol is still very affordable — even more than S&Ws. A gun similar to the one shown here should cost $100 to $125 if it holds gas. If you like good air pistols, start searching for a Crosman Mark I!

113 thoughts on “Best of B.B.: Crosman Mark I — a target pistol worthy of the name!

  1. As much as I love a minty blog from the Gaylords, I am happy to see them take some time off. Enjoy your beer and barbecue, Tom and Edith.

    I do expect a blog on the barbecue complete with photos and recipes when you get back.


    • And of course the actual taste tests. You got to see if the beer and BBQ is consistent.

      What kind of blog report would it be if there wasn’t a accuracy test of the recipes.
      πŸ™‚




          • GF1,

            In case you had not noticed,…I had to drop the (,) from the “handle”. The log in/sign in/sign up procedure does not allow such characters.

            I did post on top hats, but no show,…will wait and see.

            Chris



              • GF1,

                Sure, try it. Or CUSA or cusa or Chris U or Chris. Second thought,…just do Chris USA.

                A little easier to pick up on a “scroll down”.

                Had enough to eat yet ?,,,,,,what are ya ?….6-9 “months” by now ? Myself, I got up to 4-5 today,…..yum yummmm. πŸ˜‰

                Chris

                PS,….499 finally in stock. Gonna get it for an accurate plinker indoors/winter/ and outdoor plinking. Love the lever actions. May get a 75th. Daisy for no reload action. And,….of course,… more pellets. Oh no…….I have lost all control…..Edith warned me,…or rather I believe her exact words were,……”resistance is futile”.

                Just a “hunch”,….I believe she might be in “cahoots” with P.A. ?


                • Chris, if you wanna make yourself more visible during scrolling find yourself a bright, shiny avatars like the one s Buldawg and I have.
                  Makes a big difference!



                    • You’re not alone! I too have only a basic understanding and rudimentary skills but it only took 2 tries, once I had saved the image to my computer.


                • Chris USA
                  Ok its a little easier without the (,).

                  And way too much liquid and food yesterday. Definitely a big variaty. But worked some of it off on the 4 wheeler’s before it got dark and was fireworks time.

                  So did you order the 499?


                  • GF1,

                    Will do Monday. Shot the HN 14.0 Sniper’s today. The 1st. 3 went into the same hole ! I had found THE pellet !!! The other 37 shots (4×10) told different. They did fit real nice. My other 2 HN’s fit tight. Did not even bother with the 50yd. Did hit the can at 50 5/5 times.

                    How bout’ C USA ? I don’t text, so I do not know the upper/lower case letter typing ins and outs.

                    Chris




    • Reb
      I saw the spam last night too. Hopefully BB and Edith will be closer to getting it under control soon.

      The problem is they will never quit. And the more popular you are the worse it will be.

      We’ll see how it goes when they implement the new system. Might not eliminate them all but will slow them down I believe.


  2. B.B., very good read. I used to really want one of those S&W pistols. I had the Daisy knock off in .22 cal. I know it wasn’t as good, but it was a really nice shooter. Now if you could just go back and finish (Hint Hint) the Hatsan 250XT TAC-BOSS CO2 Pistol you started ha ha. Sorry but the pic of the “Mark I” just makes me think of it. Happy 4th to you all!






  3. Happy Fourth to you and Edith, I have two of Them a .22
    and a .177 the .22 has the power adjuster but the .177 doesn’t Your
    blog on the Mark I will have me shooting one of them once I


  4. BB and Edith
    Enjoy your time with ypur family and have some good BBQ and fireworks fun for all your blog readers.

    I used to have a 22 Mark 1 years ago and left it at a friends house for him to do some pest control and it was stolen in a home break in which made very angry and disappointed. Never did get another one but wish I had.

    Have a safe and wonderful 4th

    I do not believe the new changes for spam control will affect me at all as I only post from my PC and always log in so no muss no fuss for me.

    BD



  5. BB and Edith
    Have a enjoyable 4th with your family and eat some BBQ and shoot off some fireworks for all your readers as you deserve some time off to relax and enjoy this holiday weekend.

    I do not believe the new spam control will affect me at all as I only post from my PC and always log in so no muss no fuss.

    BD


    • Buldawg76,

      Did the HO kit today and put 80+ shots through it. Very nice,….let’s just say those pellets go down range with some “authority” compared to the 12fpe kit. Only added an o-ring at the bottom of the piston w/a small 3/8″ flat on top. No Torrington. By the way, if you add the Torrington to the B-40, you most likely will have to cut the tubes. You will/may see that the tubes will not sit flush to/in the piston, (no spring). With the trigger snapped on to the latch rod, you need about 3mm. gap for the latch rod to engage. Bottom line, cut the tubes untill they sit flush with the the back of the piston. If you insert the tubes into the piston and you have 10mm gap between the tube flange and the piston, then cut 10mm or 11mm from the tubes.

      Still need to chrony the HO tune,…but at 50 yds.,…with JSB 18.13,…the groups were 4″ higher and the “groups within a group” were cut in more than half. 8/10 were 26mm with the 12fpe kit and 7/10 were 11 mm with the HO kit. The other 2-3 was from each was me messing up. Still need to work on lighting as the 50yds. is 60′ into dark, heavy woods.

      So far, so good. Still got 9 other pellets to try for best grouper.

      Chris


      • Chris, USA
        Sounds like the HO kit is working with that 18 grn pellet.

        You know I like to shoot hevier pellets out of my guns. But were you using the 18 grn pellets with the 12 fpe kit? That might of been to much pellet for that tune.

        I’m getting ready to go out and finnsh getting the new wood stock .25 caliber Marauder dailed in. Shooting this one with the magazine this time. I tend to favor the single shot trays but I want the option to have a fast backup shot if needed.

        Got to get it done today because ain’t going to have no time the next 2 days with all this 4th of July stuff going on.


        • GF1,

          Yea, the 18’s were pushing it. Forget the 21’s. The 18’s did group the best with the 12fpe, with others close behind. I am getting better. I just missed the power. The extra “thump and bump”,… which ain’t much,…. does not seem to bother me any. Time will tell. Anxious to see the chrony with the 15.89’s which I checked the 12fpe kit with. 12 + spring cut = minus 100 stock ,….HO = plus 100 stock ???

          Have a good one,…good luck with the .25. ,……Chris


          • Chris, USA
            That’s the whole thing right there.

            It’s finding the right power for how the right pellet performs. And then when the shot cycle is factored in and the gun does bump but still shoots a good group your on your way to a winning combination.

            Have fun shooting and post your group sizes as you go.


      • Chris, USA
        First off I want to thank you very much for the bearing set as I got it today and it is SWEET. Reminds me of the RC differential bearing setup I used in racing just heavier duty.

        To get the butt pad off the TX you will have to look real hard but there are two holes in that rubber pad that hide just like the self healing rubber in medicine bottles that they use a syringe to get the liquid out of so if you take a finger and push the rubber around real hard you will find the two holes in the pad that you can use a phillips #2 screwdriver to take them out. It is done that way to be more appealing by not having holes in the butt pad visible.

        Sound like you got the TX shooting much better with the HO kit and I knew you would like the difference in power with very little if any increase in felt bump or recoil. It will make a huge difference shooting those heavy 18 grainers for sure and just about bet you have gained at least 100 fps over the 12 fpe kit.

        So the races for the Torrington are slightly larger OD than the ID of the spring outer guide of the Vortek kit. Did your HO kit come with a top hat or not as honestly it has been so long since I put mine in when I swapped out the 12 fpe kit I don’t remember and I know I left one out but I am thinking it was my Diana 48 as it recoiled just a little to much with the HO kit in it so I believe it was the one I took the top hat out of so if the TX ho kit does not have a top hat them the bearing kit will add about 1/2′ more preload correct ? If so was the difference in recoil from the 12 fpe to the HO a good bit more and/or more noticeable or not that much different as just going from the 12 fpe kit to the HO in the 40 made no real difference in felt recoil in my case anyway. just cannot remember if it had a top hat right now.

        If it does not clear the tube I will cut the tube as you say to be flush with the piston with bearing installed.

        BD


        • Buldawg76,

          Thanks for the but pad info. They did hide the screws well. A decent looking spacer, or a bought one would be next. The recoil pad add on, added 3/4″ and is perfect for me.

          As for the HO, neither the 12 or HO came with a top hat. None needed, so they say. They did say they were adding one back to the 12 kit in the future.

          They say to just put the spring in the piston with both kits. With the HO, I put a Buna O-ring (first), fairly fat, and then a SAE 3/8″ washer, or what I call a small 3/8″. That set up had a 52mm. pre-load and required no tube cut. I did not like the idea of the spring possibly wearing inside the piston.

          For you, I would drop in an O-ring first and then the Torrington. At that point, put your tube set up in the piston. The flanges on the tube need to set flush against the piston back. If not, measure the gap and then remove that much from the tubes. I left mine together and used a Dremel with cut-off wheel, then separated the tubes and cleaned them up. That was an O-ring, T, O-ring set up. I had to remove 11mm. If they sit flush to the rear, then no cutting is needed.

          The O-ring at the spring area, (contacting the spring), did not hold up,….duh!…it was just in 2 pieces. The T held up fine ! With the piston on the TX, the bearings drop in perfect. Maybe the B-40 is slightly different. You will see when you get ‘er back down. No mods were done with the HO kit itself. Just stock.

          Today is my busy family day. Will check back later in the PM,…..Chris


          • Chris, USA
            I remember you said that you talked to them about the top hat in the 12 fpe kit in .22 caliber and they are suppose to be putting one back in the kit.

            I still wonder why they don’t. My.177 Vortek 12 fpe kit had a derlin I believe it was tophat in the kit. I used it when I did my tune on the .177.

            Still makes me wonder what is different or why they don’t use it in the .22 kit.


            • GF1,

              Replied earlier but no post. I think the deletion of the top hat was a cost cutter. Add spring length and you got the same,….well,….almost. Supposed to be back in the 12fpe kit.

              I do believe the the .22 and .177 are same except for barrel, so the kits are same from .22 and .177. HO and 12fpe.

              I’ll bet an HO in a .177 would really “zing” them suckers down range ! πŸ™‚

              Chris


              • Chris USA
                Hmm you would think the cost of a longer spring would be more than the cost of the derlin top hat.oh well just another one of those things.

                And I think they make a HO kit for the .177’s. It’s been a while since I looked so I may be wrong about that. But that would really speed my gun up I think. Heck my gun is already flattening the JSB 10.34’s out like aluminum foil at 50 yards hitting my Caldwell steel spinners. So it’s making good energy right now. It’s at 16 fpe with 10.34’s right now with the 12 fpe Vortek kit and my tune. So I’m happy with it. Oh and the easy cocking and no recoil also.


                • 16fpe sounds like a nice balance of power and usability.
                  my QB-36 is around half that and passing through both sides of a tin can with an aluminum can inside.
                  The last time I clocked the Regal it was over 18fpe & if I recall correctly over 20.


                • Gunfun1
                  The Vortek kits for the TX are the same regardless of caliber as my 40 is 177 as well and they do not specify caliber on the kits so Chris’s kit and the one you have are the same when he had the 12 fpe kit and the only difference in the 12fpe kit and the HO is the spring as the 12 fpe uses a .113″ wire diameter by 28 coil spring and the HO kit use a .118″ wire diameter spring by 31 coils and now is supposed to include a 1/2 inch top hat but the info states only 31mm of spring preload so Chris with his bearing in the front has increased the it to 52mm preload.

                  BD



                    • GF1,

                      Yeah,…a mystery huh ? If the 12 is at 12, then the .22 would be less I would think.

                      Somewhere in here I asked if a heavier spring could increase trigger pressure in a center latch springer. ??? With the 12 and a 1/4 back off, it was nice. With the HO and another 1/8 back off,….it seems heavier, if anything.

                      So does a heavier spring increase trigger pressure/break ?

                      Chris


                    • Gunfun1
                      Look at their site as it only shows two kits either a 12fpe kit or a HO kit and has no mention of caliber selection or request when ordering so I guess it is just that the gun will perform at the same power regardless of kit or caliber.

                      I agree it does not seem right but it is what it is.

                      BD


                  • BD76,

                    No bearing,…just washer and o-ring = .217″ which is 5.51mm. So how I got 52mm I do not know,…but that is what it was. 31+5.5=36.5 Another mystery,..or the 31mm is not all that accurate. ?

                    Chris


                    • Chris, USA
                      Yea that is odd that the numbers do not work out but I just checked their site a few minutes ago so I did not quote incorrect data and the HO kit clearly states 31mm of preload.

                      It may be that the info on the site is not updated as the picture of the HO kit shows a top hat as part of the kit but yet it does not come with one and they have stated to you and to me on the phone when I spoke to Tom about exchanging the 12 fpe kit in the 40 for the HO that they were going to include the top hat back in the HO kit. I also noticed that it states the HO kit has a new 780118-31 part number which used to be a 740118-31. the part numbers break down as this
                      780 = spring OD of .780″, 118 = wire diameter of .118″ diameter and the 31 is number of coils so the old HO kit was a 740118-31 which would be a .740″ spring OD, .118 wire diameter and still 31 coils .

                      The 12fpe kit is part number 740113-28 which means it is a .740″ OD spring diameter, .113″ wire diameter and 28 coil.

                      He is the owner/ designer so all I know is his products work very well and that all I need to worry about.

                      BD


                  • Buldawg
                    I did go look at the site before I posted.

                    The only thing I can think of the heavier pellet in .22 keeps it under 12 fpe. That’s probably why my .177 made a 13 fpe putting the kit in as shipped from Vortek. And then after the things I did the kit was making 16 fpe.

                    They are stating that the kit is a average 12 fpe I guess. Obviously the heavier bigger diameter pellet will go slower than the .177 pellet.


                    • Gunfun1
                      It is probably like you say an average and may be taken from a 22 TX versus the 177 but then as the TX is s FT gun by pedigree I would think they would use the 177 as a baseline power rating but who knows.

                      Yea the 22 would be slower shooting than the 177 given the same springs used but it may not make all that much difference as the spring is going to propel the piston forward at the same speed and only the slight difference in pellet weight would be the determining factor in power and velocity.

                      I saw that yesterday in the 25 with the 31 barracudas and the 27 Benjamin’s as there was only about 30 fps difference with a 4 grain difference in pellet weights at the same spring tune and fill pressures.

                      BD


              • Chris USA
                I don’t know if this will post in the right place.

                But I didn’t notice the trigger on my Tx changing.

                Now on that Hatsan under lever it dit get much lighter when I put the Tx spring in it. The Hatsan has what they call the quattro trigger that’s adjustable. I had it adjusted as light as I could with the factory spring that had 4″ of preload. After I put the Tx spring in it at zero preload the trigger feel is actually real good now.


                • GF1,

                  Thanks for the insight. It makes sense that it would affect it. No trigger gauge. I will run it by B.B. in the near future. No one else responded to that specific question. Then again, not everyone swaps springs and messes with triggers either. πŸ˜‰

                  Chris


                  • Chris USA
                    I’m sure it affects it. The trigger is having to hold more pressure with a heavier spring.

                    I just couldn’t feel the difference on the Tx trigger. And another thing they might have the geometry worked out better on the Tx trigger verses other triggers.


                    • Gunfin1 and Chris, USA
                      I did not notice any measurable difference in trigger pull weight in my 40 with either the 12 fpe kit versus the HO kit either as I believe it is in fact the trigger geometry that make the spring preload less of a factor in trigger pull on the TX/40 guns that others, but then my 48 trigger once I did the mod of cutting the front of the trigger shelf where the first stage screw sets so that it had more adjustment and got it to be a very nice crisp T01 trigger is not really any different from the stock heavy spring to the Vortek HO kit spring either but they both are rounded end latching rods with very well engineered triggers as well so that may be the whole difference.

                      BD


        • BD76,

          By the way, I took the spring out of the HO to measure the tube(s) id and od and the spring and,…to lube better. I played hell getting ‘er back in. Very tight on the inner tube od. The tube(s) were less tight on the 12 kit. **** if you do not want to take the HO kit apart, put your “goodies” into the piston and re-assemble the rifle. If the tubes are bottoming out in the piston, you latch rod will not engage the trigger end/sear. You will only get 2-3 of the 4 “clicks” while cocking. If you can cock it and shoot it, you are good to go as is. Matter of fact, knowing what I know now, I would go that route first. (Leave the HO kit together). Without removing the spring, there is no way to measure tha flange to piston back gap. I do suppose calipers would work. Measure tube from end to flange and then measure the depth of the piston with stuff installed. The piston depth needs to be more than the tube length.

          Odd, I did not check anything I am telling you with the HO kit,…I can say the oring and washer totaled .217″ thick, and it cocked and shot fine. So you have at least .217″ before any issues might occur. That’s a TX,….B-40 ?

          Chris

          As for added bump,…not worth a mention really. At least not to any degree that it affected groups or reqd. an artillry hold.


          • Chris,USA
            The more I thought about it and you just mentioning it you are correct the TX kits do not have the top hat and it was the 48 kit that I left it out of as it added 1/2 inch more preload and was just to much recoil but better than stock but with the top hat out a just a stepped 1/16 inch washer in front of the spring it is almost as smooth as the TX/40 and is a tack driver with CP 10.5s shooting at just under 900 fps.

            If you want the added cushion of a rubber washer in front of the steel washer in the TX piston try a garden hose sealing washer as it much harder rubber and it being flat will hold up better as when you mentioned the o ring I knew it would not hold up with the spring load and wind up you just tested as it would not slide or slip with spring wind up and end up just as you found it in pieces, the flat garden hose washer will at least allow the steel washer to slide on it with some grease applied to it.

            The spring is indeed a tight fit on the inner guide but remember when cocked the spring ID increases so it is not tight on it in the cocked state and mine came with one or two washer inside the guides and those were removed as they added more preload than I wanted and since the spring barely rotates in the guides if at all I did not see it necessary to be there. I do have another stepped steel washer in the front of the spring inside piston as like you just don’t want spring in direct contact with piston surface as it is not a smooth flat machined surface.

            Chris remember I am putting a TX piston and compression chamber in the 40 so all those dimension are identical to yours and GF1s since the 40s chamber is out of round by .080′ inside but is only .001″ out of round outside I just have not got to it yet with the 25 Mrod I got from GF1 still in the tuning stages and our great Alabama weather is in it summer rain cycles so it has been limited testing time as it is pouring rain as we speak and does not appear to be letting up today much at all so it will be a soggy 4th.

            I will let you know how it all fits when it comes to the top of my never ending list of projects but then if I did not have the air gun projects I would be pulling my hair out not that I have much left any way with to much idle time since I don’t have to work anymore I have to stay busy somehow and I cannot work on cars and bikes like I used to so air guns are my new hobby/work to keep busy when my body permits .

            Thanks again for the bearings as they will be put to use.

            BD



            • BD76,

              Sounds good. I was not sure if you got just the comp. chamber, or also the piston. Fron the sounds of it, you got both. So,….all the info. I gave you should apply exactly.

              I will tell you, that 52mm. pre-load was about all I could do without a spring compressor. I put a towel on the kitchen counter and one against the backstop. Barrel end on my belt and the trigger end against the backstop, and leaned into it pretty hard. Feet slipping and the whole bit. But,…I got it ! πŸ˜‰

              Later,….Chris


              • Chris,USA
                You should have stood it barrel end down on the towel on carpeting so it would not slip and use your weight to push the trigger housing into the action while starting the stock mounting lug into the trigger housing as you would have much more leverage that way and with your height you could get right on top of it to get it in place and together.

                I got the piston, compression chamber, piston guide rings, piston seal and breach seals so it is the entire TX guts less the spring so yea all the info you gave will apply.

                Hope you had a great 4th and enjoyed yourself as I know I did and am just getting done with fireworks and visiting with friends so I am out of here for some shut eye time.

                BD


                • BD76,

                  That sounds much easier. Hopefully I will not be doing it again for awhile.

                  By the way, GF1 said he was getting better chrony results with the stock piston seal. So…in leau of doing my own test, I left it installed on both the 12 and HO tunes.

                  Yup,…had a good 4th. Shopping today and shooting later. Supposed to be 84 and sunny. ( but I shoot in the shade ) Going to try the 14.0 Sniper’s today. I wanted to get the 18.0’s, but they are out of stock.

                  Later, Chris


                  • Chris USA
                    Posted up above to you that my Tx is making 16 fpe with my tune and parts from the 12 fpe Vortek kit.

                    The deal that was in the Vortek kit definitely slowed my gun down. But was still making a bit over 12 fpe. It was making around 13 fpe with the Vortek seal. So from 13 to now 16 fpe is a good bit of difference from just changing the seal.

                    And remember as I said before I had my Tx together and apart at least 5 times trying different combinations till I got it shooting how I wanted.

                    Oh and I put my springs in my guns exactly the same way Buldawg described.



  6. Two questions,….

    Does anyone know how the butt pad on a TX200 is attached ? No “give” anywhere, so it appears to be “glued” ? Why do I ask ? Looking to increase length of pull. Tried a butt pad add on, close fit, but not right. Made it work. It helped and “felt” better. Me = longed armed…… πŸ˜‰

    Also, on a center latch rod as the TX has, would a heavier spring make it harder to pull the trigger ? I backed the pull weight screw off 1/4 turn with a 12fpe kit and it was noticably lighter. Putting in an HO kit today, I backed it off another 1/8 turn, but really noticed no greater improvement. Heavier spring = harder trigger/sear release ?

    Thanks,……Chris


  7. Thank you T.G. and all Veterans for your service to our country and both of you for your service to the airguns blog and the air gun Industry! Independence day is another reminder why we have the right to bare arms and do what we want to do in the USA! Semper fi!




  8. BB- I am willing to admit that I may be wrong, BUT I think that most of the shooters who have air guns do not have the kind of equipment that is needed for the big bore match. In addition to the big bore match, we should be designing matches for the kind of equipment that the average air gunner has. We should try to avoid the trap that has occurred in many of the kinds of shooting contests- the winners are the ones who can afford the most expensive equipment. When I began shooting in matches, ( 1960) I did quite well with a Win. 52 pre A that was made in the early 1930,s. I paid $40- for it. I used it for 25@ years, and there was a lot of competition. When my son followed in my footsteps, I had to get him a” free” rifle ($1000+) in order for him to have a chance. The number of shooters at the matches he attended was far less than when I began . The local .22 benchrest matches have a category for inexpensive equipment. It used to be $400-, but they may have raised it. We need to be able to get shooters involved with the equipment that they already have. Once they decide to compete, they should be able to continue to use the inexpensive (relatively) equipment, or move on to matches that require a greater $ investment . ( or shoot in both kinds of matches). An air gun show is a great place to try out different ideas and rules, and get feedback from the shooters. Using clay birds , poker chips of other cheap “reactive ” targets might get us some shooters who don’t want to use paper targets. I am sure that the readers of this blog can come up with many suggestions that could create a popular match for the ordinary air guns that most shooters have. Ed


    • Z Ed,

      You do bring up a good point on expensive equip. vs basic stuff. It seems that on the really high end stuff, you pay for ultimate adjustability. Pitting a 3500$ PCP vs a 400$ one does seem a bir un-fair. Your only hope it would seem is that the person with the 3500$ one, can’t shoot all that well.


      • Chris, USA
        The FT club I shoot in has shooters with all cost levels of equipment being used and we have three shooters that have been world champions in WTFT with one being a world champ three times so I shoot with guys that have 8000+ dollars in their guns and yes it is hard compete with them with the guns they have but they also have been shooting for 30 years so they did not start out with 8000 dollar guns and scopes. But they are just as helpful and willing and ready to teach and give very good advice that you do not need the high dollar guns to do good and have fun at the sport of Ft shooting.

        That is my whole goal with the 25 Mrod I got from GF1 is to prove to one of them that made a statement that my 25 Mrod could not compete with his 2500 dollar custom made Rapid HM 1000X that shoots JSB kings 25s at 930 fps and rings our 100 yard 1 by 1 1/2 inch spinner over and over as he let me shoot it and I will admit it is a very nice gun and deadly accurate as I hit the spinner three times in a row but it is a 500cc bottled regulated LW barreled 60 shot custom gun so I would be expecting it to do just what it does.

        But when I get completely done with my 25 it will be a 550 cc bottled regulated 60 shot gun as well and for less than 1000 dollars and will be right there with that Rapid ringing that 100 yard spinner over and over. It will be ringing that spinner right now as I have it but just only for 16 shots or less as it does not have the air capacity on it yet but that is not far off as all the parts are readily available to convert it to just what I stated above and it will have one thing that Rapid cannot do and that is the capability to make 100 fpe if desired.

        BD


        • BD,

          $8000+ guns do not make a marksman. Talent combined with practice makes a marksman. Get a good gun and use it so you become proficient. Beware of the man with one gun. Enough with the clichΓ©s πŸ™‚

          I’ve seen with my own eyes how wonderfully accurate shooters are even though they’re using the most mundane and uncelebrated guns. Talent is what they have, and they’ve honed it with practice.

          Use what you’ve got and show the owners of pricier guns what a practiced man with talent can do.

          Edith


          • Edith
            You got it. I use to love when my $4,000 race car beat $100,000 race cars.

            It ain’t what you got. It’s knowing how to use it.

            And air guns ain’t no different.


          • Edith
            My whole point exactly is its not what you have it is how you use it.

            I have always played the underdog in my cars and bikes and now air guns and managed to make a lot of people made when my home built toys outrun theirs but I bought used and rebuilt to new to the way I want it so money is not everything but practice and knowledge are.

            That’s why my 25 Mrod will outshine that 2500 dollar Rapid at less than half the cost. Plus he had it built for him the way he wanted it and I am building mine myself the way I want it so to me that is the big difference.

            BD


        • BD76,

          Thanks for that club insight. Yea,…it should be all about the fun at the end of the day. And nice they are willing to share advice,….kind of like here huh ? Very cool you got to shoot it. I really hope you can get the .25 M-rod to what you want it to do. All the PCP tune stuff is Greek to me.

          I look forward to the day when you can go shot for shot with him at 100 yds. First one to miss, looses ? ( King for a day ! )

          Chris


          • Chris, USA
            My whole intent is exactly that so I can wipe that big smirk off his face when my home built 1000 dollar Mrod not only out shoots his Rapid but at the 100 yard spinner with the JSB 25.39s his barely spins the dragon one revolution as we call it since that is what it shaped after and his Rapid is only making 48.77 FPE, but my Mrod when I turn it up to say 70 or so FPE will spin the dragon several time to boot so not only will I be king of the hill but may just knock the dragon off its pedestal since it is a 4×4 block of wood that the spinner is attached to laid horizontal and nailed on a 2 foot high 4×4 stuck on the ground so if I hit it hard enough I may just knock it off but that we will have to wait and see.

            The kit I am getting come from wicked air rifles and with their bottle kit and valve they claim power levels of 100 fpe being capable out of a 25 Mrod. We shall see when I get it all done and tuned.

            BD


            • BD,

              Am I sensing just a wee bit of competition there ? I can see your “spirit” in your comment !

              I’m guessing that the Bulldawg will take a nice “chomp” out of that “high ender”. Grrrrrr !

              Go get em’……Chris πŸ˜‰


              • Chris,USA
                Just a wee bit I would say as I don’t like being told it cannot do it as those are kin to fighting words to me and it will not be the first time I have knock someone with more money than me off the pedestal because when your are limited in funds you find other ways to skin the cat, OOPs sorry Edith I hope your cats are all asleep.

                I have done it with my old Datsun truck by beating V8 Iroc Camaros stoplight to stoplight with a 4 cylinder or beating new twin cam Harleys with a 38 year old shovelhead Harley so it aint nothing new to me but just a friendly game of never say never.

                BD


  9. Edith looks to still be on the job, but in any case, hope you and B.B. have a happy and well-deserved break with the visit from relatives. Happy Fourth of July everybody.

    If the Crosman reproduction of the Ruger Mark I is anything like their imitation of the Ruger 10/22, it must be one outstanding airgun. And what happened to the original Ruger Mark I with all it’s popularity? Is the Mark III that much better?

    Mister Rob, thanks for the advice about browning my Winchester 94, a process I had never heard of. I actually had been thinking along similar lines by pretending that the rusting was a sign of use. But the closest analog I could think of was “color case hardening” which I believe is supposed to be the authentic look of guns from the Old West. That would be the ultimate deception since my gun has hardly been used at all. He he. However, browning does run up against my very limited mechanical skills.

    For the Fourth of July, I had been hoping to steal a march on my fellow Americans and the blog as well by going to the range yesterday for the next installment of my Saiga/AK experiment. However, apparently many other people had the day off and had the same idea as me, so my plan didn’t materialize although I got everything done. First, I had a burning desire to see where the heck the red dot sight was aimed since I had not been able to get on paper at 25 yards at my last session. At 7 yards offhand, I barely caught the very bottom of the target. So I dialed it up within a couple inches of center. Then I moved to the 50 yard line for serious work.

    So, if your shot is low at 7 yards, how do you adjust for 50 yards? If your answer is UP like mine, you are wrong, wrong, wrong. Low at a short distance means you’ll be higher at a far distance (within limits). I should have been relatively close as it was, and by making a couple of revolutions, I dialed myself right off the paper. I finally managed to hit the very top of the paper. But a few more turns of the dial and I was off, never to get back on again. Seeing that I was eating well into my ammo supply, I decided to switch to my BugBuster scope for accuracy testing which was the heart of my experiment.

    Results were dismal. My BugBuster was tight with almost perfect eye relief, and my new Blackhawk cheekrest raised me up to a nice cheek weld. But with all that, I could only shoot two groups of five that were 3 inches at 50 yards. That’s 6 MOA, like a Mini-14 at its worst and not anywhere in the same league as an AR. Mike, this is no good. The American part with the accessories was doing great. I’m forced to admit that this is no benchrest gun. The only possible signs of hope are that at this point I had run through 30 rounds in pretty rapid succession and the gas piston above the barrel was too hot to touch. That might have opened the groups up. I was a little torqued up on the bench without a solid natural point of aim, but I doubt that made much of a difference. My Anschutz target rifle was performing within expectations in the same set-up. Maybe it’s an ammo problem since I’ve only tried the Serbian brass-cased, but I doubt it since this design is not supposed to be ammo sensitive and the Serbian stuff is good. Otherwise, I think I need to get more familiar with this gun. Jerry Miculek has said that the AK has a very violent action, and I can see that. The round will cycle no matter what with the case flying out into the distance. When my follow-through doesn’t work, my shot falls apart; I don’t know how unique I am in this respect. And I was not getting the follow-through with the powerful shot cycle. But on one of the last few rounds, I did manage to keep my eye on target and the round sailed right into the X-ring. Maybe this is just an impression of mine, but it does make me think that the groups can improve.

    After failing to get on paper with the red dot and having my illusions crushed with my BugBuster, things were not going well. But rather than scurrying back to the 7 yard line as my impulse led me, I thought I would stay put and run the Anschutz at its competition distance. With my ultimate triple hearing protection, the gun twanged just like an airgun, so I positively felt at home. Most of the shooting was offhand to see how my practice with the IZH 61 translated. I was able to hold the black on the regulation target! As I count it, that means 7 or better out of 10 (not counting the very occasional scratch where I missed the bull completely. I was shooting in a t-shirt and athletic shoes, so if there is anything to the shooting jacket and boots that competitors use–even their reinforced underwear–I might be able to shoot competitive scores. I also fired a few shots at my rested Saiga target, and to give a sense of scale, the offhand Anschutz groups were better than the rested Saiga groups! At any rate, with the twanging feel of the gun in offhand, it really was like home on the airgun range, and getting into the black was pretty gratifying.

    With only 20 rounds left of AK ammo, it was back to the 7 yard line to see if I could get the rifle zeroed with the red dot. At this point, I must say that my fellow shooters who I have often snickered at really came through for me. It started with the deep sympathy that my appearance provoked. Since I came by taxi, I had to carry all my gear. This amounted to my double rifle case on rollers in one hand, a giant duffel bag on rollers in the other hand, a backpack, arrow case on one shoulder, 6 foot longbow case on the other and a sighting scope case and arrow quiver stuffed with gear around neck and shoulder. If I wasn’t adjusted, I sometimes felt an acute choking sensation. Anyway, equipped like this, I trudged with head down between the various shooting ranges inspiring pity and offers of help, even from a guy with a cane.

    One of these guys was very accommodating about letting me sight the Saiga in at the 7 yard line right next to where he was shooting his handguns. How fortunate that he did. My first shot didn’t even hit the target. So, the guy volunteered to spot for me as I shot at the berm. While I can find my shot with airguns this way, I find it difficult with higher-powered guns with the cloud of dust they throw up. It was only because of this guy that we discovered that I was low, and by aiming at the top edge of the target, my shot appeared at the very bottom. In retrospect, I see I was way overcompensating the sight adjustment. I’m not sure why. Perhaps it was a perception that a cruder sight like the red dot wouldn’t have as fine an adjustment as a regular scope or maybe the short sighting distances I was using made me overestimate the sight adjustment. But on my various efforts I had been adjusting the elevation way high and low. To a god-like perspective, it must have looked like insanity, and I shudder to think of my state of mind if this nice fellow had not been there to prevent ultimate failure to get on paper after my dismal benchrest performance with the Saiga.

    The guy was shooting with his daughter who must have been under 10, and she had the most interesting rifle. It was tiny with a bright pink stock and a single shot bolt action. She worked the bolt and plugged away offhand at the 7 yard target, and it was one of the most charming things I’ve seen in a long time. I was reminded of the fabled Annie Oakley whose destiny became clear when, at the age of 5, she spontaneously pulled down a rifle and blew the head off of a squirrel. This girl was not in that league, but for pure charm and cuteness, she had no equals. Sadly, I blew the opportunity to tell the father that he might consider airgunning for his daughter. That way instead of being limited to their range days, clearly a big occasion for the girl, she could shoot every day. It would have been a very small return for what the father gave me as it turned out.

    Since the benches were hogged for the 25 yard line, I was left to zero at that distance offhand. This time with a maximum of caution and the best estimates I could make, I dialed in, and by that time I was down to the last 10 rounds. I figured I would shoot them in two groups of 5. Then the miracle happened… Both groups were pretty well-centered and were inside of 3 inches. So the offhand groups with the red dot at 25 yards were as good as the rested groups at 50 yards with the BugBuster?!?!?!

    So, what the heck is left of my experiment? I think I was getting dialed in with the feel of the AK at the end. But otherwise, I think this shows a legitimate side to this weapon. Basically, the rifle is doing just what an assault rifle is designed to do which is to make rapid shots with reasonable accuracy. Between the benchresting and this, I suspect that the truth of the AR vs. AK debate is just what people have been saying all along about the relative accuracy and reliability of these two guns. Could it be that the TRUTH is just the totality of this long controversy with all the various points weighted pretty much exactly as they have been sustained over time? This is consistent with the Internet where any single observation is almost certainly wrong but the collective is almost always correct. Perhaps the truth of these controversial issue is neither a yes or no but something like the normal (Bell) curve that we found (long ago) to underlie group sizes. The truth would be grouped around the average with some extremes on either side that fall off in value as they extend outward although they are not irrelevant. Perhaps accuracy in thought is not unrelated to accuracy of shooting. One shared feature is that the curve gets better defined with more data…

    The only thing I would add to this is that perhaps benchresting has been oversimplified as a gauge of accuracy. It is understood as a theoretical limit of accuracy, but the assumption is that guns will perform proportionately worse in more uncertain conditions. It may not be that linear with some guns performing relatively better than expected in other positions and some worse. This has been said about the G3 rifle. Apparently, it is extremely accurate in a rested position but can be unwieldy. As an inverse case, perhaps the Saiga/AK does much better offhand than one might expect with its benchrest performance. As to why this should be, it’s possible that the sliding mass of the piston is more disruptive against a solid rested position than an offhand position which has more give. In this respect, it would be similar to the IZH 61 which I have found to be more pleasant to shoot offhand than rested and probably more accurate that way relatively speaking. The airgun connections are everywhere.

    On the strength of this reversal in fortune, I did well with my handguns at 15 yards. The big surprise was shooting the 1911 with the 230 grain service load. My usual palm-sized groups tightened up to a huge hole, and the gun felt very easy in the hand.

    Then, it was a final struggle with all my gear across the parched and cracked earth of California to the remote archery range which, thankfully, was empty. With the incredible, oppressive heat, I sort of imagined that I was a Plains Indian on the hunt. Or maybe I was like Rambo. When he goes back to Vietnam and his girlfriend gets killed, he regresses to a primitive state with his bows and arrows. Buffeted by nature in the form of a driving rainstorm, he plows his hands through the fresh mud of the newly dug grave, than ties his headband, thinking, “If they want to fight…” My goal was to see if I could get insight into the the lost technique of English longbowmen who could draw 180 pound bows. Between stepping, dropping the bow, and accelerating the string, I felt some force multiplication. But then, it occurred to me that the archers who could do that were deformed with massively enlarged left arms from a lifetime practice. Nothing I cared to imitate so earlier times were not all that they were cracked up to be. When I stumbled back to the range clubhouse, I learned that it was 97 degrees which explains a few things.

    So, the big lesson learned is that you have to keep plugging away whether it is with your equipment or your fellow shooters because you never know when the lightning might strike.

    Matt61


    • Here’s a quick way to get your zero. You will need to be able to see the bullet hole with the scope. Bench rest the rifle on sand bags. Fire one shot at your aiming point. Now ,move the rifle so it is back at the aiming point you used for the shot. Without moving the rifle, sand bag in position so it can’t move if you have to, turn the scope adjustments until they are on the bullet hole. You are now zeroed. Of course, you may have do some fine tuning but you will be very close.

      Mike


    • I don’t think it will ever be a tack driver, but mine does pretty well with an ultimak and TRS25. I just leave it that way- I can keep an 8×10 steel plate swinging at 120 yards- It seems good enough for deer or pig- so I have it pretty much dead on @ 25, about 3.5″ high at 100 and just leave like that.

      The ammo mine seems to have done well with is American Eagle, the SSTs, and the barnes loaded by double tap ammo (real expensive).

      But if I have it zeroed for the Barnes bullet, the wolf and tula junk still hits the steel at 120.

      If it wasn’t for the Commie Condor, I would just shoot the soft point 154s exclusively. They shoot well and are all made in the same factory regardless of package (tula, wolf, herters)

      That Ultimak is the bees knees for easy, solid optics mounting.


  10. Matt61–There is a way to sight in a rifle called four cornering. You shoot 1 shot at each of the corners of the target to find out if the poi is high or low, right or left. If the target is too small, use a large sheet of paper as a backing sheet. This method is simple and uses very little ammo. Chris- I know a retired lawyer who has tried many hobbies, but soon tires of them. He is not able to keep all his shots on paper with a pistol at 50ft. Offhand with a .22 rifle he often misses the black (sporter rifle, 50 ft). Yet after less than 2 years at rimfire benchrest, he often beats all the experienced dedicated shooters including the gunsmith who built his rifle. His secret, $$$$, he has the most expensive rifle in the league. And it is now sitting in his closet because he became bored with the sport. Now he plays golf. Ed


    • Z Ed,

      Sounds like one to get a hold of,….maybe at a bargain. After I posted, I thought that benchrest would be the only way to better a high dollar air rifle. That assuming you know your rifle very well, shoot a lot, and probably weigh and head sort all pellets.

      That would be so cool to win a match with that kind of odds stareing at you. $ aside, odds are that anyone that has the high end stuff,……can shoot. Still,….it would be like being “King for the day” just to win one !



  11. GF1,
    I’m really happy with the transition to PCP and guess I need to get on the Office computer to pull some part#s so I can get an order from Crosman together. To be honest, I’m hanging on to the pellets I have for longer range testing. Just gotta get a ride.



      • 25 & 50yards unless it can keep em together pretty well but I’m not trying to expect too much from this little package, but only tested to 10 since I put my Tasco Pronghorn 4×32 back on it.
        One of the first 10 went into the oother arm of the chair I was resting it on.


        • The hole”s not so bad but the cotton batting on top of the arm wadded up for1.5″ after it bounced off the wood frame leaving what feels like a marble underneath.



            • This place kinda feels like a cage sometimes, a couple of my buddies are quibbling over what to do with the one man inflatable.
              I told em “I’ll put it to work!” But that’ll be a week or better, then I can get my camping trip planned


  12. GF1,

    1 1/4, 1 3/4, 1 3/4, 1 3/8. Thats with a few “pulls” or off shots thrown in. Most of the time, if I get an off shot, I will do an 11th. pellet to make up for it. But at those groups,…forget it. They did fit real sweet though.

    Chris


    • Chris USA
      That was 25 yards right?

      So was there any sub groups in the main group that was tighter. Like say 4 or 5 pellets grouping better than the others.


      • GF1,

        Yup,…25. No sub groups really other than that first 3 A few other 3 and 4’s in 1 larger hole, but that’s it.

        Could have just been an off day. At least 90% of shots were good though. I will stick with them and give them another 4×10 at least.

        By the way, the adj. Hawke 1 pc. 11 to Weaver slips. I got it as tight as it will go. The elevation adj. is nice. No shims. Will get a stop add on when I order. Nice added height. 3/8″ rise. Perfect.

        The BKL tri-rail 11-11 riser is .625″. No stop on it either. But,…it is insane tight. Read the instructions, (after) I tried to mount it. You reverse the screws to (spread) it. Duh ! Still, will get a stop and use with both. Then use the other on the LGU,….when I get one…. πŸ˜‰

        Why would anyone make a 11mm. riser or rings without a stop ?

        Also, got a “Limbsaver” medium butt pad today at Wally World. The other brand I got was a large.
        This one fits perfect. Added 1″ pull. For anyone wanting to add 1″ pull to a TX, I can 100% recommend it.
        And looks nice to boot, no trimming.

        Chris


        • Chris,USA
          I bought one of those Hawke adjustable scope mounts thinking it had a scope stop pin built in only to find other wise and was very disappointed for sure since I know of very few PCP guns that suffer from droop and I still souled not work well on most as you could not load a pellet due to it covering the breech or the scope would be so far back or forward that it would be useless.

          It is a very clever concept and have tried to find a gun it would work on but with the main body of the mount 1.4 inch above the dovetail it will be hard to get a scope stop to hold up due to the increased leverage the mount would have against the stop unless it was secured by at least two hardened screw holding a 3.8 inch block of steel behind the mount and the screws would need to be at a minimum of 8-32 thread to even come close to not shearing off from scope recoil. I have yet to find a gun with threaded holes of sufficient size to restrain the mount from moving rearward during the shot cycle.

          if you have an idea of what might work I would be interested to hear it and if so which gun it would used on as the TX has no provision for a scope stop screw unless you are going to tap in the rear most hole for a screw or drill a new hole behind it and since the trigger housing is right where that hole would need to be the receiver tube is not thick enough to thread and have enough threads or strength to work unless you drilled into the trigger housing as well to extend the thread engagement of the stop screw for the stop plate.

          Your thoughts on it or ideas you have come up with .

          BD


          • BD76,

            I will not be drilling or tapping the rail. PA sells a 3/4″ sq. scope stop that attaches with 2 screws. Low profile. It’s the only one they sell. PY-A-688. Good point on leverage. I got high rings as well. That’s what I need for good cheek weld and not to have to “come down” on the scope.

            Not sure where you came up with 1.4″. The bottom of the rings are 1 1/2″ above the main 11mm. rail, if that’s what you meant. That’s using the adj. Hawke 11 to Weaver. PY-A-4163. It only adds 3/8″. Yea, cool concept on that one. It works great for elevation adj.

            The 11 to 11 riser is PY-A-2877. It’s rises 5/8″. I got it as back up for the Hawke in case it did not work or I wanted more rise.

            Check out the #’s I listed so we are on the same page and let me know what you think.

            Chris


            • Chris, USA
              Yep got what you are referring to now and the scope stop would most definitely work for the Hawke mount. the 1/4 inch height I was referring to was to the lower base of the Hawke mount where the clamps screw in to as that would all you need for the scope mount to sit against to keep it from moving rearward. it could set against just the clamp legs but I would be afraid it would bend or damage those so I was assuming it would need to contact lhe lower flat plate of the mount is where I came up with the 1/4 inch over the dovetail.

              The 688 scope stop is most definitely the way to go with that mount for surer and glad you found it as I now know what I need to use that mount now just need a gun that needs it as it would fit the 48 but I have a sportsmatch fixed one piece mount on it that is just the right compensation so its set.

              I see no need for me any way for the other two mount to raise the scope as I want it as close to the barrel as possible and will adjust my cheek weld to suit the scope height but then you need what makes it easier to sight and shoot for you to be comfortable.

              Thanks for the info on the scope stop for the hawke mount.

              BD


              • BD76,

                Thanks for the reply and the info. and opinion. Hope the stop works well. The HO is putting some extra “thump” obviously,…. πŸ˜‰

                As for height, that’s what feels good to me. Not to metion less neck tension. The re-coil pad add on was a good choice as well. Very “natural” now.

                Going to start playing with rest height next. It’s good now, but I am pretty sure that higher would be better,….more relaxed. GF1 even uses a chair with a back rest to help.

                Scope stop ordered. Got a Daisy 75th Red Ryder just for fun. Champion 499 is out. They had 8 last night !!!!! On back order now,….. πŸ™ me.

                Catch you on future blogs,….Chris


                • Chris, USA
                  Thank you as well since I never thought to look for a scope stop of the one you found and is why I am using the sportsmatch mount although I did have it before I bought the Hawke mount as I thought the Hawke mount had a stop built in but when it did not I stayed with the sportsmatch even though I had to machine the center of the bottom of the mount to clear the turret housing on the Hawke scope as it is a medium mount and keeps the scope about 1/16′ over the action so it is very low and high mounts would just be to high.

                  Like I said it is what makes it comfortable for you to shoot and if it fits then go with it so glad to hear you got the LOP to suit you better and the scope at the height you like.

                  yes the rest height help greatly in fatigue of the back and legs and I am lucky that my porch railing is just right for me in a lawn chair to be comfortable when shooting at home and I have finally found the right stool to use in my FT shooting that gets me low enough to rest my elbows on my knees and not hurt my back in the process.

                  Have fun with the Red Ryder but don’t shot your eye out LOL had to say it and I have had one for longer than I can remember and it is still fun to shoot today.

                  BD


                  • I broke out the QB-36 earlier and soaked the seal, let it set for 3-4 hrs and put a dozen rounds or so through it ,offhand and I miss being able to keep the bundle gun from swaying but still had fun @8yds.
                    Still going strong!


                    • Reb
                      That still got the old b-3 spring in it and shooting good still HUH

                      Glad to hear it still shooting good and I am no good off hand anymore since my strength has gone south so its bipod or bench rest for me only.

                      BD


  13. Reb–When using the 4 corner method, the sight( scope or iron) is not adjusted. It remains at one setting. After you find out where the bullet (s ) are hitting on the target ( high or low, right or left) you zero the sight to hit the center of the target. Tracking the scope requires at least 4 groups. The scope is adjusted with the same # of clicks for each group (high right, high left , low right and left. The position of the groups will reveal how well the scope tracks. Zeroing the scope (4 corner method ) adjusts the scope in only 2 directions. To test the tracking, you need to move the scope In all 4 directions. Ed


  14. Buldawg,
    I was starting to notice that it was hold sensitive resting it on my armchair.
    I could really use a good coach but Gonna get my offhand shot back one way or the other!βŠ™


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