by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Daisy’s Targeteer 177 shot BBs.
This report covers:
- Not the first Targeteer
- Second Targeteer
- A funny thing happened…
- Oiled it
- Description
- Trigger
- Sights
- What is it good for?
Today I want to share with you a vintage BB gun that was a part of my childhood. Daisy’s model 177 Targeteer BB pistol was produced from 1957 to 1978, so it moved with the company when Daisy relocated from Plymouth, Michigan to Rogers, Arkansas. I didn’t own one as a kid, but my best friend had one that he carried all the time. To say it was underpowered was to compliment its performance. I don’t think he knew about oiling BB guns and you could see the BBs coming out of the muzzle, then dropping rapidly to the ground.
Not the first Targeteer
The gun we are looking at today isn’t the first version of the Targeteer Daisy’s first Targeteer was a .118 caliber (.12 caliber, basically) BB pistol that they made from 1937 to 1952 — with time out for the war. I have written about them several times on this blog. The first Targeteer also shot steel BBs, but they were specially made for that gun and were much smaller than the BBs we know today. That shot is now collectible in its own right, so no one shoots it anymore. They shoot number 6 shotgun shot instead.
That first Targeteer was very weak. I’ve never seen one that would break 150 f.ps., and most of them shoot even slower. Of course most people don’t know to oil them, so their guns won’t even launch a BB out of the muzzle today. I think the second gun to be called the Targeteer, the gun we are reviewing today, suffered by association with the first gun.
Second Targeteer
Daisy started making the second Targeteer in 1957. And this one shot a regular BB. Daisy had learned their lesson about proprietary ammunition — it’s too hard to keep up with! Try to buy a box of Dardick Trounds or some Gyrojet rounds today and see what I mean! Hey — anybody know where I can get some 2.7mm Kolibri?
I reported on the second model Targeteer back in 2005 and again in 2006. Back then I didn’t have much good to say about the pistol because I was remembering my childhood experiences. But last week I pulled the gun out of the closet and decided I needed to do a more thorough report on it. After looking at the Haenel 100 BB pistol we reviewed recently I thought this Daisy pistol deserved the same treatment.
A funny thing happened…
The way I bought this gun is a funny story. Funny to everyone but me, that is. I was attending the Roanoke airgun expo about 15 years ago and they were holding the auction. Airgun dealers would pile all the guns they couldn’t sell on the auction table and show promoter Fred Liady auctioned them off, keeeping half the money. It was one of the ways he paid for the show.
I saw this pistol in the box being held up and it looked like a Crosman 600. I was about 40 feet from the auctioneer whom I could not hear, and I bid $25 for the gun. As soon as I did that a hush fell over the crowd and all eyes turned toward me. That’s never a good sign!
Turns out I had purchased a like-new-in-the-box Daisy Targeteer for $25. I wouldn’t have given $5 for it if I had known what it was, but like I said, I couldn’t see it very well, nor could I hear what was being said. So, for many years I have owned what looks like a brand new Daisy Targeteer 177.
And that is what led to today’s test. It dawned on me when I saw the box for the thousandth time that this gun really has not been broken in. Therefore, It has never been properly oiled. I thought surely Daisy would not make a gun that couldn’t shoot when it was brand new.
Oiled it
I took my own advice and oiled the gun with many drops (10?) of Crosman Pellgunoil. This gun has a modern powerplant with synthetic seals on the plunger (piston) and at the breech of the shot tube. Normally synthetic seals call for far less oil, and you should use silicone chamber oil at that, but this is a weak powerplant, so the use of the petroleum-based Pellgunoil is okay.The extra drops were just penance for all the years the gun was neglected. There is a hole for oil on the top left side of the gun, but I just removed the shot tube and dropped it straight in. It goes straight to work that way and it’s easier to get a large amount in the gun.
There is an oil hole, but you can also drop oil down the barrel when the shot tube is removed.
Then I shot it at the cardboard target backer on my pellet trap. The BBs didn’t penetrate the tough cardboard, but they did dent it more than I expected. Maybe this gun can do 200 f.p.s. with steel BBs. That’s more than I gave it credit for. It will be interesting to compare it to the Haenel model 100.
Description
The Targeteer 177 is a 150-shot repeating BB pistol that must be cocked for every shot. Cock it by forcing the top of the pistol (the barrel) back against the bottom grip frame. Ideally you would pull the top back like the slide of a semiautomatic pistol, but nobody can do that. It’s too hard! Everyone will just hold the pistol in one hand and push in on the muzzle with the other — keeping the pistol oriented with its muzzle up, because it uses gravity to feed. We encounter the same cocking situation with vintage Quackenbush pellet guns and Crosman M1 Carbines.
The shot tube is conventional. It’s just shorter than the ones found in the rifles.
The gun I’m testing is made of folded metal and painted with a gloss black paint. The older ones from Plymouth were blued steel, and of course they are worth more. The grips are medium brown plastic and checkered on both sides. A thumbrest on the left panel makes them target grips, after a fashion.
Being made the way it is, the gun is light — only 16.5 oz. It’s the size of a conventional semiautomatic pistol like a High Standard or Colt Woodsman, but the grip is thinner. It fits small-to-medium-sized hands best.
Trigger
The trigger is a very thin blade of stamped metal. It’s single-stage and breaks at 3 lbs. 14 oz., but the thin blade makes it feel like more.
The trigger blade is thin.
Sights
The rear sight adjusts in both directions with a simple jam screw and oval slot arrangement on both the vertical and horizontal parts. While it’s not very precise, I expect the accuracy of the pistol doesn’t warrant much more.
Rear sight adjusts in both directions.
What is it good for?
I always wondered what a gun like this is good for. It’s too hard for younger kids to cock, so it isn’t a junior target pistol. It certainly isn’t powerful, so it can’t be used by hunters. I guess the number one purpose for a gun like this is plinking. If it has the power and accuracy needed to bounce an aluminum soda can around the yard, I guess that would be its reason to exist.
I will test it for velocity and accuracy next, and I will stick to my normal tests that we are used to. And, if the gun shows any promise, I might take it out to the yard and bounce a can or two around. As always, you’ll get my full report.
BB
Skip all the other stuff and get to the can bouncing.
Make sure you get some good action pictures if you can though.
Sounds like fun to me.
GF1,
Maybe you didn’t get it, but this is a slow and deliberate gun. It takes longer to cock for each shot than a Red Ryder. I will try the cans, but there won’t be much bouncing. Just a shot every 15 seconds or so, with half of them being blanks because the pistol failed to feed a BB.
B.B.
Going off topic can anybody give me an idea regarding the market value of a used HW77 in .22? Doesn’t look abused and the bluing appears to be intact. The seller is asking almost like new price for it. I don’t want to low ball my counter offer to his price to the point of insulting him though. Spring pistons are a rarity over here (CO2 and PCPs are dominant) which adds to the price although the market is attempting to flood with those made in Turkey (Webley and Hatsan) along with Gamo.
Siraniko,
From the Blue Book, 60% is 295-350. 100% is 600-700. They appear to be discontinued in 1998. There is several variations. That is the “quick” answer. No doubt, BB and others can tell you more. As for insulting, you may be the one being insulted if he is asking some ridiculous price. It is good that you are doing some homework first. Best of luck.
Chris,
I am not so sure they are discontinued. The HW77K is still available.
RR,
The Blue Book list them as no longer in production. If you say they are, then ok. It could be there is some of the original stock around too. I do not know. At any rate, still figuring out the 2 springers I got already! 😉 You got a Blue Book?
I have an 11th edition.
The HW77K is available through a dealer located in Arizona. They have several variants of it. It could be old stock, but I seriously doubt it is that old.
RR,
Thank you for that. I have the 11th also. Would you not agree that the book gives the impression that they are discontinued? Maybe I am reading something wrong. But yes, thank you,..I will keep that in mind on future reading.
It may be because the original style 77 was replaced by a new version a little while back. The stock now looks a lot like the 97 or TX200. I had wanted a 77 ever since I saw a picture of one in the Beeman catalog that came with a rather mediocre Marksman rifle I bought back in the early 90’s (the catalog was the best thing about that purchase) so I made a point of getting one when I noticed that Weihrauch was changing the design. Purely an aesthetic choice in my case.
Chris,
I had not bothered to look it up. I just assumed the book was referring to the HW77 and that they were now building the HW77K. As Nowhere has pointed out, they apparently made some changes and changed the model designation slightly.
Another thing I always try to keep in mind is that the value of something is what it is worth to you. Not too far in the past I was wanting to acquire a Beeman R7. I saw a couple at the Roanoke show that year, but I could not reach an agreement with them because they wanted more for them than a brand new one cost, despite the fact that it was obvious that they had not been lovingly cared for. Their justification for the high prices they wanted was that it said San Rafael on it. To the best of my knowledge, they still have those air rifles for sale.
Siraniko,
A brand new HW77K over here can be bought for six hundred dollars. Now, how much would shipping to over there add to that cost, I do not know.
Siraniko,
Here in the U.S. a good HW77 would bring about $350. The .22 has never been that desirable, though the powerplant does have the steam to drive the pellet.
I expect that you are in a situation driven by the short supply.
B.B.
A fun-gun made in the day when we didn’t take BB guns too seriously. “You wanna hit your target? Stand closer or get a bigger target!” Lots of better choices today, but the guns of my youth still have a special place and are more fun. Thanks for reminding me of this one.
Incidentally, I’ve been shooting a Daisy 74 lately. Now that’s a gun the kids of your book “BB Guns Remembered” would have walked over coals for!
When I saw the first picture it reminded me of my cousins I think it was a Daisy 200. We sure had a lot of fun with it. Except one day when he was replacing the CO2. The new one popped out and circled the room at least two times. Luckily we survived those days. We moved sprinkler pipe in the morning and had the afternoons off. Those afternoons were spent shooting bb and pellet guns. Rimfire ammo was too expensive.
There’s something about plinking tin cans that still brings the kid out in me. BB guns make it fun and a little more challenging.
Carefully with a low power BB gun and plastic soda bottles, the bb can bounce tight back and put your eye out.
BB
Hi, thanks for writing your blog it’s been very helpful
A couple weeks ago I bought an NP2 in .22
It seems to be working fine but someone told me that the barrel gets loose later on and it becomes inaccurate
Have you experienced anything like this?
Wondering if I should return it and try something else
Thanks
Farrier,
The fact that the NP2 uses a pin for the barrel pivot instead of a screw that can be tightened is the major reason I did not buy one. That, and the stock.
Actually, the barrel can be tightened up on them. What you have to do is disassemble them to the point of removing the barrel and either shim the barrel or place the end of the compression chamber arms where the barrel pivot pin is located in a vise and squeeze them together some. If you squeeze too much, you will have to force them apart some, so on and so on…
I do not know what you are looking for, what your tastes are, what your experiences with air rifles are, etc. without further discussion so it is difficult to recommend anything. The first question to answer is “What do you want to do with this air rifle?”. Once you have that question answered, we can take it from there. There are some very nice air rifles in that price range.
Farrier,
RidgeRunner gave you a good answer.
B.B.
The nps are solid guns, I’ve had a number of first generation and none loosened up at the barrel. I wouldn’t worry about it, just check your screws everywhere after each session, but they are pretty smooth and with some loctite they stay tight. If you havent found a longer trigger adjustment screw yet I would recommend it, one about an 1/8th inch longer allows much better adjustment. A lighter trigger return spring works wonders too, the stock spring is way overpowered and adds a lot of the weight to the pull. If you like springers the np2 is a great one, in its price range its way above a lot of others, and should last as long as you care to maintain it for and then some.
BB,
Glad you did this post as it reminded me of a question for you. We have the world’s most accurate bb gun in the Daisy 499, but where would one look for the world’s most accurate bb pistol? Or is that something that isn’t available? I’d love to see something like the 499, single shot muzzleloading target bb pistol.
Kookla,
The most accuate BB pistol doesn’t exist. Some, like the Umarex Makarov that doesn’t have blowback, are very accurate, but there is no sport that uses BB pistols, so none exist.
B.B.
BB,
Thanks. That’s too bad. Would be really cool if there was a target bb pistol sport. One reason I love the Daisy 499 so much is that sometimes finding 10 meters to shoot indoors is tough, but 5 meters? That’s something nearly everyone can do.
B.B., I think the BB pistol does exist, it must. We just don’t know which one it is. Maybe not a sport for it, but one is the best just the same. Doc
Maybe try a Crosman 2240 with lead BB’s, or better with a Lothar Walther barrell and other goodies from the custom shop. A Daisy 747 with lead BB’s is also cool. Lead BB’ are fun because they’re easy to load and accurate enough to be interesting. Try several kinds. Hope this helps.
B.B.,
I’m a bit surprised you didn’t start a frenzy for the Targeteer 177. I can hear the phone calls coming from Roanoke right now: “Get all the Targeteer 177s you can for under $10. You heard me! Tom Gaylord just paid $25 for a mint in the box one. He must know something we don’t!”
What is the Daisy’s model 177 Targeteer good for? Well, if it is indeed accurate, as you have often pointed out here, then one can forgive an awful lot.
If it is not accurate, at the very least it is a sleek looking pistol, and I’ll bet it feels good in the hand (if one is right handed, which I am not).
Michael
Michael,
You and I are standing in the same line when it comes to the question of what the Targeteer 177 is good for. This series is my attempt to rectify my past ignorance of the gun.
In other words — I don’t know. We’ll find out together.
B.B.
B.B.,
The saving grace is probably that it is in such great condition with the original box. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Bl;ue Book value is about where you would be if you had invested $25 fifteen years ago in a mainstream fund. And one can’t plink with a fund!
Michael
Hello everyone at the blog.
I’m a long time airgun enthusiast from Portugal.
I was instructed to put my doubts here, requesting your advice if possible.
I have an RWS Diana 34 manufactured (and bought) in 1993, it endured quite a bit of wrong practices and wear, but is in very good preservation state (barrel; action & stock). Finally changed it’s original spring this week.
However, the wood stock front screw holes are showing their time; the wood doesn’t show any cracks or anything.
(I’ve been using cedar oil on the wood from time to time.)
But since the front screws have those knurled/serrated metal washers and they weren’t always well tight, the larger wood holes where the screw heads enter are getting somewhat more “sunk” with time.
And with a new spring, I know there will be more tension on that area, when cocking and firing the air rifle.
So I would like to know what do you recommend to strenghten the wood on those screw holes, as I don’t want to break my stock.
I’ve been using some plastic washers between the knurled metal washers and the wood, but they didn’t last long.
(That however only protects the wood but doesn’t restore it.)
Do you recommend applying some kind of resin/epoxy or any product of easy access (as our airgun / fire arms after-market here is somewhat limited) ?
Thank you all.
Sounds like you could use some escutcheons like the ones B..B. now has on his R1.
Thank you Reb.
I bellieve I’ve read about something like that here, a couple weeks ago.
Maybe they will help, particularly those with a protruding sleeve.
And might need to buy them from abroad or something.
However really was looking to strenghten the front stock wood holes also.
You can find the ones that were made for the R1 in the blog on its Dream Tune.
I’m not so sure they will reinforce the wood but I guess are more for protecting it.
The epoxy sounds about right, if you use a pin the same size you want the hole and coat it in grease you can fill the hole lightly and a thin coat on the face inside the recess and let it set. The pin will slide out. Make sure its greased good, you dont want to have it stuck. Even if you dont use a form a light coat of epoxy in the face and hole will strengthen it. You could also fill it in and drill the epoxy to your required diameter, that’s an easier way but each has its pluses and minuses.
Is it necessary some special kind/brand of epoxy, or the general one from some hardware store does it?
Never done this before, but I believe it’s maybe the most practical way of reinforcing the wood holes. Do you know or recommend another metod?
You might want to check out some of the preservatives used by museums
Ok thank you for the advice.
You need something that will soak in to the wood instead of just coating the outside
Probably, as long as it also forms a solid, flat layer, where the front stock srew heads will rest and compress against the wood.
Hence my sugestion about epoxy / resin / etc.
I use the strongest jb weld for almost anything, but if you’ve never used it it can be difficult and very permanent. Their are lesser strength varieties that will be easier to move around and remove if needed, as long as it dries hard, you dont want to use anything that says flexible because movement and screws going in and out washers moving will chew chunks up that’ll just pull it out. I would use jb weld general use stuff. Mix it up and use a q-tip to push some into the hole and smooth some out onto the face where the washers go. You could then drop the washers in and squish em down, smoothing out any that forces up around it, then the washers are permanently on and it will add more strength. Make sure only enough in the hole that it doesnt fall down into the stock. Here is where you have to choose, use a greased pin to form the hole, let it set for a few minutes and slide it out, or drill the hole to size after. If you drill the hole you will need to apply the little bit in the hole, let it set, then apply over that to fill the hole completely. It doesnt have to be the full thickness of the hole bore, just the top having enough to call it closed. The reason for that is if there’s some in the hole but its not closed off there may be more to one side then another and the hole in the epoxy will guide the drill bit and may send it off course. If its filled you can center your drill to start. If you dont think it needs the “full rebuild” amount of epoxy you can just lightly coat the face and inside of hole. You could still drop your washers onto the glue this way and the hole wont have so much that twisting a drill bit by hand wont clean up your diameter. So, in a nutshell, I would coat if it just needs a little, use the form if really in need of repair (having done it a bunch before) and would suggest filling and drilling to someone without experience, minding that extra step to start the drilled hole. Good luck! Its not as tough as it really sounds, just remember that you can always add more but its harder to deal with too much.
Hello RifledDNA22,
Thank you for the detailed description on the various procedures.
With some concentration I believe I can mange the handywork you mention.
I guess my biggest dilema now, will be choosing the right product / epoxy / brand / etc. as many of those do not exist here.
But some will have to be.
So, you say some epoxy resins might be to “soft” or week to withstand the firing vibrations ?
I wouldn’t say its the vibrations, they wont bother a soft glue but thinks like silicone adhesive have a rubberyness that is easily peeled, if you take the stock screws out and put them back the twisting will chunk it up and it’ll peel off. Any two part epoxy with resin and hardener in seperate tubes are all as far as I know a hard setting and smooth surface when dry. JB WELD is the biggest name brand in epoxys here and make some that test to over 4000 psi, thats a little overkill here, lol, but its usually what I have on hand. Their general use epoxy is medium duty and the equivalent to most other resin hardener epoxys so even cheap store brand, gorilla glue, etc will do what you need. Department stores usually carry them, craft stores, hardware, plumbing supplies stores, places like that. What kind of stores are there near you? Where are you located?
Hello,
I understand, not just the vibrations, but the piston recoil and impact also.
I’m in Portugal, in a suburb near Lisbon – the capital.
We have here some sort of what you mention, mainly they kind of mix all the other stores products you say (hardware; construction; plumbing; carpentry; garden; house electricity and this one even has a gunsmith department).
Other than that, gunsmiths always have been shops on their own.
But we don’t have many U.S. franchises here unfortunatelly… well, other than McDonalds and the Coca-Cola factory !
By the way, my RWS 350 Magnum also has a tendency to unlock the frontstock screws, so I applied the equivalent of loctite thread locker on the screws with new flat washers also.
But my doubt: how much should I tighten the screws before breaking the wood stock? How much is too much?
PedroMike,
Tighten them until they feel “just right”. 😉 Really,….snug will work and the loc-tite will do the rest. Check them on occasion,…all should be just fine.
Chris above said it perfect, just right. Loctite is important for exactly that reason so you dont have to over tighten. How much till it cracks the wood will depend on the type of wood and the average humidity where you are, dry wood will crack easier. A good way to keep from overturning is to use the short side of your allen wrench for your fingers and finger tighten as much as it will allow with the decreased leverage of that shorter side, if that makes sense. But it does sound like you should be able to find a good epoxy.
And yes, I am confident you can accomplish this, a little concentration- exactly.
Here’s a great place to look into the types of products that will do well, similar products from other brands may be available near you.
http://www.jbweld.com/collections/wood-1
Good advices indeed, but how do you do when they aren’t allen screws, but the usual, you call “phillips screwdriver” ?
There are rules of thumb listed in some of bettertorque specification manuals that will give an idea of how much torque a fastener requires.
Some go by thread diameter and othes by shank diameter while others go by hardness and headsize, but we’re talking inch-pounds here not foot-pounds.
Aah, ok, no problem, two things- dont use a drill and dont use two hands, so a regular hand screwdriver with one hand and a dab of loctite and you will be perfect.
PedroMike,
Wow, lot’s of good advice. Personally, I would (get rid of) the toothed, star washers all together. I can not believe a mfgr. would ever use them on wood! A flat washer, or a cupped one,….and some Loc-Tite would do the trick. Blue. As for the wood, the epoxy advice sounds solid (good). If you can not get a cupped washer,( if that’s what you need?), you could make one from a flat washer by putting a center punch of the right size on it, punching it, and cupping it yourself. On soft wood should work. Now that you got a new spring in it, you do not need to tear it back down again for a long time. Just my opinion. And,…Welcome and keep coming back. It is real nice to hear from other people around the world.
Hello Chris USA,
Thank you for your attention.
I also think that Diana’s choice for serrated / toothed metal washers are not the best in terms of wood stock durability, but go figure.
This airgun has 22 years already, if I wasn’t minimally careful, the stock might already be broken instead of with just worn screw holes.
Got my first airgun (the mentioned Diana 34) at the age of 13, but only used it twice a year when at the village.
Then some 10 years ago, started to raise my interest again and bought some more airguns!
RWS Diana 34 (1993)
Norica Marvic Style (2005)
Gamo Shadow 1000 (2006)
RWS Diana 350 Magnum (2006)
Weihrauch HW 80 (2010)
My best regards and appreciation to everyone here and B.B. Pelletier, as it was here I read some years ago about the airguns correct shooting technique – which made me like them more.
PedroMike,
Nice collection you have going there! Best of luck with your airgunning adventures. Chris
PedroMike,
I must ask,….(sometime) you will have to tell why you only used the airgun in the “village” 2x a year. If you want to……In the U.S,….those who live out of a village, or town,…can shoot when ever they want. But to shoot only when going to the village is most perplexing (confusing). Anyways,….just curious.
Hello Chris, indeed I didn’t explain it very well:
The twice an year use of the airgun (in summer vacations and christmas trips) to the village, was a thing of the past.
I mentioned that just to say, my first airgun (Diana 34) didn’t have a very “intense” use until 2005 or so, keeping in mind it’s age.
Things to keep in mind:
– Portugal does not have a gun culture like the U.S. (although we have a medium / big game sazonal hunter (fire arms) community – some partridge; thrush; rabbit; boar; etc );
– only at 1998 I became of age, and in a town, law enforcement immediately apreends any kind of weapon displayed in public (in a village they might be more tolerant with an airgun);
– in Portugal you can NOT hunt anything with an airgun, (just recreational use – target shooting, etc.), but at least, so far airguns don’t need a licence to purchase;
– you can only use airgun at shooting clubs or inside private properties (like one’s backyard);
– if you carry it on public it must be carried concealed in a bag / case; unloaded; uncocked; etc… but the law might give you trouble if you don’t have the proof of purchase – it’s ungrateful as it pretty much depends on the police officer you catch.
Answering your question:
Only after start reading on the Internet (like here) about 2005 or so, I learned to shoot better and re-acquired more interest on the hobby, and searched for a more wilderness place in my town to use the Diana 34 more often along the year…
As I could shoot more often, I acquired more airguns… (some were impulse purchases.)
There’s also some shooting clubs, but are more oriented to other modalities – to big game (shotgun) hunters – flying disk shooting, or specific airgun shooting modalities indoors, and I prefer shotting at cans from 20 to 70 meters in open field.
Anything, be my guest.
PedroMike,
Thank you for reply. It was a real treat! I find it interesting and rare treat to hear of other country’s airgun rules and regulations,…but really,….how those people in those countries work around them. Impulse buys,….. 😉 Thank you so much again. 70?…..now that is pushing the limits!
Have fun, take care and come back,…..Chris
Good to know that.
I’m fully aware from long ago, that in a springer, power tends to go against accuracy.
But as I much prefer “distance shots” – the roughly 70 meters you mention, I have some power requirements.
( One of my aspirations, was one the several bolt action, low caliber rifles (fire arm), you have there in the U.S.
To acquire it here, one obligatory needs a great deal of hassles and paper-work.
And a simple rifle like that, is frequently extremely expensive – so, a powerful airgun is the next best thing. )
I only use open sights in airguns.
Tried a scope some 20 years ago in the Diana 34, I was very young, there wasn’t Internet neither information, the scope was cheap… it didn’t last long. Don’t want all the hassle again.
The 20 to 40 meters (or so) shots, are against ice-tea cans, of 4,53 x 2,56 inches.
The 40 meters (or more) are against larger targets.
The 70 meters (or more) shots, mainly with the RWS 350 Magnum (0.177), are against 1,32 gallon water carboys, of 12,6 x 5,9 inches – believe me, it really has the power to cover those ranges.
Certainly can’t manage to hit all the times; some are clearly luck shots; it’s not much scientific like the target group shots measuring B.B. Pelletier posts here yet.
PedroMike,
Very nice for open sights, very nice. That is too bad on scopes. They have come a long ways since those days. For how you shoot, a nice mil-dot would be perfect and your hit rate would go way up. 150$ gets a nice Leapers/UTG. Yes, they can be a hassle with ring heights, ring type, stop pins etc., but once you get into them, it is not bad at all and you wonder how you ever got along without one. It’s all up to you, but I would not rule them out.
If they offered this gun with a portable range like the original it would probably still be a hit.
I want to update what I wrote about the release and insertion of the magazine for my Colt Commander in particular, and other models with the same base, including the Remington 1911 RAC.
What I discovered is that the striker get caught on the upper housing of the release valve. I have searched and so far the only picture I can find is on page 21 of the manual, although for this PDF it is page 23.
/airgun-resources/manuals/remington-1911-rac-co2-bb-pistol-owners-manual.pdf
This picture is not very clear, but it appears some of the upper housing is already cut away. On my magazine I did not do anything drastic. I scraped away a very, very small bit of the upper housing to round it a bit. Now I can release and insert the magazine with ease, without having to rack the slide.
For any who are shooting one of these KWC 1911 replicas, you may notice some wear on the magazine above the release valve. This shows where the striker has scraped against the magazine. Because I only have the Colt Commander I don’t have solid, objective proof that the magazine is the same for other models, but I do believe they are.
~ken
I have found one other photo. This one is for the Tanfoglio Witness 1911. This is for a spare magazine from Pyramyd AIR. The photon of the rear of the magazine looks much like the photo for the Remington, and it also seems to have more cut away above the release valve. Because mine works well, I won’t try to scrape or cut away any more than I already have, though. ~ken
/product/tanfoglio-1911-swiss-arms-co2-pistol-177-bb-magazine-18rds?a=3833
~ken
Ken,
Good to hear from you. I always enjoy your post. I just went through an “adventure” with the Beretta 92 FS. 100% tear down. You may have seen. If not,….it ended up being a re-lube. Works fine now. I can appreciate getting into the details of an air pistol. Good job on getting the “bug” worked out of yours!
Chris, I remembered reading about your adventure, but not well so I went back and took a look. I agree wholeheartedly about finding a much information as needed before starting the job. Exploded views, photos, videos are all helpful. Good to hear that you made it through the ordeal and got everything working.
Is the Beretta a true replica; is the safety and other parts reasonably true. I don’t know that I will be purchasing many replica air guns, but I do want a faithful replication the original. The safety is now a pet peeve; if the safety isn’t faithful to the original I won’t touch it.
~ken
Ken,
Not sure I could re-find it. Thanks for your effort. I am not sure of the authenticity, but I would say no. There is no blow back. The safety I think is ok. It is quality and 99% metal. The price might be an indicator of that. Still, 3000 shots and issues? Then again, maybe I am the rarity. Not sure they are made for that. But,…it is working flawlessly now. Thanks for the reply. ~Chris
Ken,
If it interest you at all, I will offer all I can. BB did some articles on it, so that would be a good place to start.
Memories! My first BB gun, bought for me in the 70’s when I was tyke living in Guam. I can remember that if I worked the slide multiple times, it could stack BBs in the barrel. I’d then point it straight up and shoot, watching 6 to 8 BBs go up and down. Forty years later, and I still have it, though the sights are missing, and the actual barrel assembly is nowhere to be found….
This gun looks a lot like my Daisy 747, but the performance is apparently very different. It sounds like the old unoiled version wouldn’t even make it on my range of five yards. But maybe it would work on the range at which I dry fire my military rifles which is about two inches. I just scale down the aimpoints accordingly.
I’m also reminded of the bb machine gun powered by freon that they used to advertise in the back of comic books. They advertised to shoot 2000 rounds a minute. I associated that rate with considerable power, but apparently not. From other specs, it seemed like the bbs came out with very low velocity. So, it must have looked like a very rapid sprinkling of bbs.
Matt61
I had taken the rear sight off my QB-88 in attempt to enable loading with the scope that I now have on the 2400. I pulled it out earlier to get a few rounds in but gotta put the sight back on first. Been missing this gun for about a month now.
Got bored and decided to check the mail.
Imagine my surprise when I noticed a small padded envelopes with considerable heft.
I had been waiting for a notification via email with a tracking number but at least it got in the right box!
Guess I’ll be busy tonight.
Reb:
Did you ever get your replacement breech screw for your Crosman (2400 or 2240, I don’t remember which you said)?
I got mine in from Crosman, along with a wide trigger shoe. The wide trigger shoe makes a huge difference in the feel of my 1377. I ordered a couple of extra breech screws while I was at it. Please let me know if you need one.
Jim
No, I haven’t placed a Crosman order yet. But when I get one together I’ll be sure to have a couple in it because I need another one for the partial breech kit I got at the show.
Reb:
It pays to stock up to save on shipping. I added several things just for that reason. BTW, the screws were $1.15 each.
Jim
I want a power adjuster and maybe some sights.
Reb,
Get off of here and get to work already! 😉
I wanna change to the black seal this time but I’m saving all that for tomorrow when it’s daylight
I looked for an email back to 11/9/15 but found none.
I wanted to let them know I got it but it’s probably not gonna be easy.
Im glad i found this site. Great place for refference from others who love this hobby/slight obsession. Im new to the air guns personally. I always had i cheap 660 but i was never interested in it, nor did i have any knowlege of air guns. So About a month ago i was in a walmart to purchase a blind for deer hunting and i seen a Ruger Impact .22 cal. I immediately bought it and now im hooked on them and everything about them. I dont even think about center or rim fires anymore. Ive become so intrigued on putting different types of pellets down range now that i bought 4 more guns in a period of 2 weeks. A Ruger .177 Blackhawk Elite, a Gamo Whisper Fusion, a 177Benjamin Trail Np
Chevell,
Welcome to the blog.
You are now with about 30,000 other enthusiasts from around the world who enjoy the same things. Airguns are nearly limitless in their ability to hold our interest.
This blog goes all the way back to 2005 and can be searched by typing in your areas of interest in the search box at the upper right of this page.
Enjoy!
B.B.
And a co2 8 shooter S&W pistol fitted with a laser. Absolutely cant get enough and i know il be buying alot more!
😉 ,…..your “hooked”. You have found the right place! Plenty of company here. Chris
I sure am! I put a Gamo laser on my Co2 hangun with the 8 pellet rotorey clip and when out shooting in the dark with it. I grabbed a pack of red solo cups as targets from the dollar store. I was so estatic shooting them cups because as soon as the laser hit the cup those things glow red like a road flare! So much fun to shoot in the dark if you have a safe place to do it. Im gona look foward to sundown every day now
I have the Beretta 92FS in Nickle and Wood. Good idea on the cups. Clear tape, the cheap shiny version of Scotch tape, over top of target dots will give the same result (light show). I put the red laser on it. I have a small plywood crate, front door swings open, has cutout door for targets, 1/8″ steel plate in the back. That is what I use for an indoor range at 24′. I have the same kind of set up at 41′ for the “long” indoor range. Both can take a .22 pellet hit at 5′ no problem. The 2 rifles I have are the TX200 and the LGU in .22 and a Red Ryder and 499 bb guns. That’s it. But always thinking about the “next” one. 😉