Home Blog  
Education / Training Teach me to shoot: Part 7

Teach me to shoot: Part 7

by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6

This is the continuing fictional saga and guest report of a man teaching a woman to shoot. Today Jack and Jill look at possible defense weapons for her!

Our guest writer is reader, Jack Cooper. Take it away, Jack.

Teach me to shoot

by Jack Cooper

This report covers:

  • Harsh recoil
  • Defense is always a tradeoff
  • Obey the law
  • What about a 9mm revolver?
  • Snub-nosed tradeoffs
  • The test
  • Ouch!
  • What’s next?

B.B. had prepared me for an onslaught of questions from you readers that never came! I told you last time that I trained Jill on a Ruger Single Seven chambered for the .327 Federal magnum, but she shot the smaller, less powerful .32 H&R Magnum cartridge. I thought at least one of you would ask why.

Harsh recoil

The answer was recoil. While the .32 H&R Magnum is a powerful round, the .327 Federal Magnum is much more powerful and would have recoiled significantly more. Besides loading heavier bullets, that cartridge has twice the chamber pressure of the .32 H&R Magnum. Gun writers describe the kick as “snappy,” which is gun writer-ese for “don’t go there.” I did not want Jill to try that round, since her previous experience had been with a cartridge that recoiled far too much for her small hands.

Can some women handle a .357? Certainly they can. I’m not saying they can’t. So can some men — but not all. What I am saying is that when you train someone, you have to be sensitive to what they can tolerate, and don’t exceed that, at the risk of ruining the training. Don’t think you have to toughen them up. That is a military concept; it should not be one that a firearms instructor uses.

Defense is always a tradeoff

But I also don’t want Jill to believe she can defend herself with a handgun chambered for the .22 long rifle cartridge that recoils very. Can it do the job? Certainly. Will it do it reliably under most conditions? Almost certainly not. We are going to have to reach a compromise in our choice of defense cartridges, because people have been shot in the head with a .44 Magnum and walked away. It isn’t the norm, but it does happen.

What I want Jill to have is a cartridge she feels confident using, and also one that has the best probability of doing the job it’s called to do. No matter what we choose, big or small, it will be a compromise.

We had a long conversation about this before starting the next phase of her training. She understands that a .357 Magnum is more lethal than a .32 H&R Magnum, but the guns that chamber that cartridge are either much heavier than the guns that chamber a .32 H&R Magnum, or else they recoil viciously. If the gun is too heavy, Jill will be tempted to not carry it most of the time, and if it recoils too hard she will not practice with it as often as she should. We want a gun that will feel comfortable enough to carry in her purse all the time, and also one that feels natural to her.

Obey the law

I say she will carry it all the time, but in fact Jill works at a hospital. In our state it is illegal to carry a firearm into a hospital unless you are a law enforcement officer. Yet one of the most dangerous places Jill goes is into the parking garage where she parks, adjacent to the hospital. We will have to work something out for her, since we cannot leave her vulnerable at this critical juncture!

Today’s session is about selecting a carry gun for her. We probably won’t actually get one today, but we want to start looking at what’s available.

What about a 9mm revolver?

As we looked around the gun store, the proprietor asked why were weren’t considering a 9mm revolver for Jill. He agreed that 9mm semiautomatic pistols are too difficult to rack (pull the slide back to chamber the first cartridge), but he wondered why a 9mm revolver wouldn’t be better than a .32 H&R Magnum. So I had the bullet weight discussion with him. I asked him what the standard weight of 9mm bullets was and he had to pull a box off the shelf to see. It was 125 grains. We wanted to shoot a bullet that weighed no more than 90 grains. Then he told me that certain 9mm defense ammo has lighter bullets that perform very well. I had not considered that, so I said we might give that a try.

This store also has an indoor shooting range attached to it. You pay by the half hour and can electronically run the targets out to a maximum of 25 yards.

They also rent certain handguns, among which was a Taurus 9mm revolver. If you buy the ammo from them, which we did, the “rental” is free, though you still have to pay for the range time. They didn’t have any .32 H&R Magnum revolvers to rent (no surprise), but I brought three with me that I had borrowed from friends. We were set up to shoot 4 different revolvers this day.

Snub-nosed tradeoffs

A snub-nosed revolver may look cut-and-dried to the casual observer, but there are actually many things to consider. For starters, the smaller guns hold 5 cartridges, while the ones that are slightly larger hold 6. That extra round means a lot in a defensive situation.

Also, where some snub-nosed revolvers are made of steel and weigh over 20 ounces, there are lightweights that weigh as little as 12.5 ounces. The light weight means the gun is easier to carry all the time, but it also means the gun is going to recoil more. Now do you see why I want to stick to bullets that weigh 90 grains or less?

The standard barrel length of a snub-nosed revolver is 2 inches, but they range from 1.8 inches to 3 inches. The frames of different models are also longer or shorter — all of which affects their concealability.

The grips are another concern. Wide rubberized grips absorb recoil better, where narrower wooden or plastic grips are easier to conceal and faster to pull out when the time comes. But smaller grips accentuate the feel of the recoil.

Finally there is the hammer — or lack of it. Some people say a hammer can catch on things when you pull the gun. They either want no hammer or a shrouded hammer that won’t catch on anything. But that also means the revolver cannot be cocked single action. It becomes double action only. The proponents say that’s okay because in a defensive situation you’ll only be shooting double action anyway. I would have to agree with that observation. So Jill would test all of these guns in the double action mode.

Smith & Wesson 432
This S&W 432 is hammerless. It can only be fired double action.

Smith & Wesson 431
The S&W 431 has a hammer, and can fire both single and double action.

The test

Jill fired all of the guns I brought, which were an S&W 431, a Ruger LCR and a Charter Arms Undercoverette. She found the Smith to be the smoothest in both single and double action, though the Ruger did have a long smooth double action pull that felt lightest. She was able to control the Smith best of all three revolvers. Both the Smith and Ruger gave her 3-inch groups at 15 feet (5 yards) when fired double action. She really had to concentrate to get the groups that small and she noted that this was nothing like shooting targets single-action.

I had her shooting at a standard silhouette target. At first she wondered where to aim, but once she got used to the combat sights on the guns, she kept her shots in the center of the torso.

The Charter Arms Undercoverette had the worst trigger of the three, plus it was least accurate. Jill just didn’t like it, so we ruled it out. But there was one more revolver to test — the 9mm Taurus suggested by the gun store owner. We bought some reloaded rounds that had a 100-grain lead-free fragible defense bullet that was supposed to leave the muzzle at 1,250 f.p.s. I guessed in the Taurus snub-nose we rented it might go out at 1,000 f.p.s.

Because the 9mm cartridge is rimless, the cartridges had to be inserted into a 5-shot full-moon clip. Otherwise, the revolver’s extractor would have nothing to press on and they would have to be pushed out of the cylinder one at a time.

full moon clips
Cartridges that are rimless like the 9mm Luger need something like these full moon clips, if you want to use the extractor on the swing-out cylinder.


Jill didn’t like the idea of the clips, and when she fired the revolver and felt the recoil, she was definitely turned off. “This recoil is too much for me. The other snub-nosed revolvers we just shot all kick a lot, but this one is starting to hurt.”

I told her if the same 9mm cartridge was shot in a semiautomatic pistol that weighed twice as much it would feel a lot better. But that was why I stopped at the .32 H&R Magnum. She agreed that .32 H&R Magnum was as far as she wanted to go in a revolver.

What’s next?

We ended the session here, but we aren’t finished. There are still a couple more revolvers for her to shoot before she decides. But today was the culmination of months of training. Jill was a good pupil who learned exceptionally fast. I now feel as safe with her on the line as I do any of my other shooting buddies.

She is looking into attending a training camp offered by Babes with Bullets . She said she had no idea organizations like this existed before our training began, but now she feels confident to attend and participate. She knows she will receive different instruction at one of their camps, and after watching some of the videos they post on the Press section of their website (under Who we are), she’s excited to attend.

We have one last training session to go before we are finished, but that won’t be the last you hear of us. Jill and I have grown close through these sessions and through the bible study group we both attend. I have a feeling we will be shooting together for a long time to come.

author avatar
Tom Gaylord (B.B. Pelletier)
Tom Gaylord, also known as B.B. Pelletier, provides expert insights to airgunners all over the world on behalf of Pyramyd AIR. He has earned the title The Godfather of Airguns™ for his contributions to the industry, spending many years with AirForce Airguns and starting magazines dedicated to the sport such as Airgun Illustrated.

60 thoughts on “Teach me to shoot: Part 7”

  1. Good to hear you are on the mend B.B.!

    Before Jill decides on what to carry I would suggest she attend the Babes with Bullets training camp first to broaden her knowledge as to what others carry.

      • A .380 ACP maybe a Ruger LCP loaded with Hornady .380 ACP 90gr XTP hollow point projectile or Federal Federal Premium Hydra-Shok® 90-grain JHP might be a good basis. If she desires more power, although unlikely, this can familiarize her with the controls when she goes up to 9mm.

          • Did not consider that problem. The .380 ACP seems to be the smallest caliber available in a semiautomatic package if she were to carry one into Babes with Bullets training camp. A revolver seems to be in her future for concealed carry though.

            • Siraniko,

              The Ruger LCP is also tough to hang on to. Even a woman with small hands is only going to get two or maybe three fingers on the grip. This amplifies the recoil IMHO.

              The size of the LCP is its strongest feature. Many people choose a defense weapon that is too large and eventually it stays home most if not all of the time.


              • Kevin,

                Size is one reason I chose the Micro Desert Eagle over the LCP. It’s just enough larger to count, yet it fits in my back pocket with ease. I stopped using a holster after the courts decided you could show the shape of a gun through clothing and not be considered brandishing.


                  • Kevin,
                    Reminds me of novices with air guns too. They want a cheap springer that shoots over 1400 fps and looks super cool without thinking about the function.


                    • Doc,

                      You forgot, “It needs to be accurate out to 100 yards since that’s as close as they can get to the coyotes”.


                • Also, when considering a .380 auto, they tend to have more felt recoil than a 9mm auto because of their operation. my wife has arthritis and noticed this immediately when trying both calibers, she felt that a .38 Bodyguard had less felt recoil than the 9mm auto we tried.

                  • Wow, did I completely type all of that wrong….let me start over… with out the baby distracting me.

                    My wife felt the .380 LCP had more felt recoil due to the size of the gun, than the 9mm (think it was a Kahr CM9) and the .38 being a revolver more than the 9mm but, preferred the .38 over both autos because of the operation. she felt that the slide snapping forward causedher more problems than the rearward push of the recoil
                    hope that makes more sense.

  2. Jack,

    Since you seemed focused on bullet weight/recoil for Jill in a defense gun will you talk to her about additional options that the polycase arx rounds provide?


    • Kevin,

      I think Jack will do that. He tells me he has had trouble obtaining these rounds for testing, because they seem to be in short supply in his neck of the woods, but I know he wants to try them for himself.


  3. Jack,

    Try an S&W Model 60 in 38 Speical (not +P) if you can find one. With a good quality defense bullet designed for self defense and a mild load, it is a pleasure to shoot and light weight. My 5′ 2″, 120#, daughter claimed mine when she graduated and moved out. It is by far her favorite from her choice of several. She does not mind the recoil and says that it feels less than the Ruger LC9S that I brought her.

    I should add that she has learned to handle recoil. I wish I had a picture of the face of the owner of the local indoor range owner the first time he watched her put 6 rounds of 45 Colt (or as some say 45 Long Colt) into a ragged hole at 10 yards. Priceless. BTW, I have to agree with my daughter – the 45 Colt from a heavy Ruger has less felt recoil than the 9.


      • B.B.,

        .38 Special would have been my first thought for Jill. I just did some quick research on the web and found there are a lot of .38 Special cartridges that in a snubbie provide energy in the low 200s (foot pounds). Besides there are probably, oh, a thousand different models of .38 special snub-nosed revolvers. The odds Jill could find one that fits her well are very good.


        • Michael,

          Please read Levans comment below. She has a .38 Special snubby. It’s very pretty and it hurts like sin to shoot.

          I have owned a dozen .38 snubbies over the years and have never found one that was comfortable to shoot. But the .32 H&R Magnum is a different story. It can be just as powerful as the .38 with far less recoil. Yes, I have shot it in a snub-nosed revolver and it is still comfortable.


    • I have seriously considered one of these for my wife. I feel certain she could handle it when the time came and it is not something you are going to take to the range and plink with. I do have to question the logic of sights on it though. Who is going to use the .45 Long Colt in it?

        • My experiences in life have taught me that when the adrenaline starts flowing, you no longer notice things such as recoil. As you well know that is the purpose of constant training so that you do not need to consciously think of what to do.

      • RR
        One of the reasons I thought about the Judge was just for the fact it can shoot a .410 shell. The .45 round is nice if me and the wife and daughters target practice. Of course I have to see if they can handle it. And I explained more about that below to BB.

        But this always been my concern with a carry gun and a home defense gun. When the adrenaline does start flowing the mind seems to accelerate and things seem to slow down. But here’s the problem there is always objects and possibly inacint bystanders around. When your shooting a gun with a bullet where does that bullet go when you miss or passes through the person your defending yourself from. That thought always scares me. I want the bad guy stopped but I don’t want a inacint bystander getting hurt. That would be devastating to me.

        So that’s why I myself have thought more about getting a Judge. And here is another pistol I thought about basically because I already have a bunch of these rounds. But then comes that thought again of where is that bullet stopping at if you miss or pass through. But this gun would probably have little to no recoil.

      • BB
        That’s what I wondered. My brother recently got the gun in the link I provided above. I shot both the rounds through it and it seems close to his 9 mm Beretta in recoil. To me anyway. I’m strong in the arms and hands though from working on the machines and cars my whole life.

        So that’s why I wondered how it compared to the .32’s recoil. I still want to get a pistol for home defense and practicing with my wife and daughters. Not so much to carry. And remember we also all shoot that .20 gauge pump and they have no problem with it. Well my wife thinks it excessive a bit on the recoil. The daughters like it.

        I guess though the pistol for the daughter and wife might be harder to hold onto then the shot gun though. But maybe not. My wife was at work and kids were in school when my brother stopped by with the Judge so they didn’t get to shoot it.

        I said this before. I’m kind of going about getting a pistol diffently than I have with air guns and rifles. I want to know more about them and by only one. Well for now anyway.

  4. BB
    IMHO, a self-defense gun is part of a system.
    First it has to have enough penetration to reach vital areas even when heavy, winter clothing is worn. (some popular short barreled guns don’t). It should also be small enough and light enough so that it will be carried; not left at home when summer clothing is worn. Next the carry system should allow it to be fired instantly when needed. After these criteria we can talk about stopping power, muzzle blast, recoil, etc.
    My own choices are: North American Arms 22 magnum with at least the 1 5/8 inch barrel this an honest 1100 fps and will penetrate. It’s small enough to be carried in a pocket, in a glove or an eyeglass case. It’s always there. Muzzle blast and recoil are a factor so an extra cylinder in 22 LR is a worthy accessory for practice.
    Next choices are S&W snubby or equivalent in 38 Spl, 22 mag or 32 H&R mag. A Glock 26 or equivalent is also a good choice.
    Larger guns are preferable it they can be carried.
    My 2 cents.

  5. I have a S&W 642 Lightweight .38 with a cherry grip. It’s a pretty gun, but I don’t like shooting it at all. The recoil is killer. After reading your last two posts, I’m wondering if I should use a different bullet at the range to get more used to the gun?

    I also have a Glock 42 .380. Other than having a bit of a struggle getting used to moving the slide, I love it. Hardly any recoil and I can shoot less than a 1″ group at 10 yards. But I’m also wondering what ammo is best for the range?

    I would love to see a video of the one-handed stance as I think it could help me perfect my two-handed posture.

    Keep ’em coming!

  6. Levans
    There are lots of lower powered loads for the 38 Spl. Some are made for Cowboy Action Shooting, including those in 38 Long Colt which will work fine in the 38 Spl. Some are
    made for target shooting with wadcutter bullets. The 32 H&R magnum will also shoot the 32 S&W and the 32 long. You might have to buy online from places like Midway or Natchez.

  7. BB
    Do you think that you could make a short general list of some rounds in relation to recoil. From like the first on the list is the most recoil with the last being the least recoil. And hand guns only not rifles.

    This is a example of what I mean. And only a example. So don’t say why did I put that one first or another. Again just a example. Andaybe the list only needs to be the top 10 most popular rounds. Put the heaviest recoil first on the list and lightest last on the list. This could help people get a general idea of what a certain round tends to recoil like.

    1). .357
    2) .44 magnum
    3) .38 special
    4) 9 mm

    • GF1
      Just hopping on here so that you will see it quickly. PH is totally fine. I know that we all have a head full of things we want to say quickly and typing is often the enemy, even if we are just saving a few characters 🙂

      • Kevin
        I saw that that was mentioned at times and new it would be a tough list.

        But in general one round will still recoil more than another round. And if a person shoots enough pistols in different calibers that would be a very useful list if somebody could produce it. Somebody maybe with alot of experience with different hand guns.

        Anyway was just a thought.

  8. Speaking of CHL, there was an interesting article in the Houston Chronicle today about licensed handgun carriers. More than a million residents of Texas (3% of the total population) are now licensed to tote handguns in public, whether openly or concealed. According to state numbers, Harris County where Houston is located has the largest number of licensed carriers with 139,563. About 80,000 Texas became licensed to carry since the start of 2016. Still, Texas lags Florida who has the distinction of being the national leader in licensed firearm carriers with 1,743,954 active licenses as of April 30. That’s about 9% of the state’s population. I guess you don’t want to mess with the senior citizens of Florida.

  9. The .32 magnum certainly threads the needle. I would have dismissed the .32 caliber out of hand (the James Bond caliber) as one of the most ineffective of all time. But a magnum chambering would bump that up considerably without, perhaps, getting uncontrollable. This is interesting in relation to the 9mm. I’m getting convinced that 9mm is not adequate for self-defense without a special load. However, it is supposed to be ballistically similar to a .38 special which has too much recoil. I suppose the magnum chambering of the .32 saves the day.

    I can’t wait to see how the self-defense training of Jill progresses. Next would be a place to carry her gun. One possibility is the example of the daughter of Caecescu, the former dictator of Romania under the Iron Curtain. When she was arrested by revolutionaries, she pulled a gun out of her bra and emptied it at her arrestors. She surprised them all but missed them completely. And then there is the movie where Tommy Lee Jones chases Harrison Ford called The Fugitive or something like that. Jones gets disarmed of his pistol. But as soon Ford runs away, Jones opens a kind of belly band secured with velcro, revealing a back up gun with which he goes in pursuit. And then there is the whole science of tactical pistol shooting, that I’m seeing is quite an art. There is stance, movement, draw, different kinds of sight pictures, targets, and shot sequences. If aimed double-action fire at a target is different from single action fire at a target, it is also different from a gunfight, I expect. I’ve never heard of Babes and Bullets, but it fills a need to train women in shooting. I just hope that it is better than women’s unarmed self-defense classes that I see that are mostly ineffective. I was watching a recent one where practice assailants are dressed in a suit with a padded helmet the size of a small refrigerator. Just like Lord Helmet from the movie Spaceballs. Hilarious.

    B.B., so glad the detached retina got healed. This will make me doubly careful of the tiny holes that were discovered in my retina. I’m much more of your way of thinking than that of boxer Mickey Ward who suffered broken wrists and a detached retina in one of his bouts. “It was intense,” was his only comment.

    Gunfun1, how about that about the ice cube trays in the shape of animals. That would seem to prove that manufacturers do read this blog. In that connection, I want to register a protest that someone has taken my idea for naming an airgun a Gladius, like the Roman sword! Unconscionable. But at least they didn’t take my idea of using it on a springer with my special counter-wound spring in the cocking mechanism that allows you gain massive power with the mere flick of a finger….

    Kevin, I always pay attention to the great classics. It sounds like the 94 Winchester is not obsolete after all and that the qualities that made it the ultimate deer rifle are still unsurpassed. So no Modern Sporting Rifles for you with the reflex sights and the new ergonomics? Thanks for posting the photo. That is some pest by the way. Having one jump out of the trees at you is a real cause for concern. That business about wounded animals in dark timber is scary stuff and reminds me of the famous Hemingway story, The Short, Happy Life of Francis Macomber. A rich novice on safari gut shoots a lion which crawls away into the bush. The hunter just wants to leave it behind but his British guide tells him that this is not done because the animal is suffering. Then, he says, “You don’t have to go in with me. It’s why I’m so expensive.” At that point, I would have shaken his hand and poured a Margarita. But the hunter goes in after the lion with a Springfield 30-06 and, not surprisingly, goes running out of the bush as soon as the lion charges. It’s a good story.

    Anyway, that business of hunting down wounded animals in the bush is serious professional stuff. I can understand how, from the vantage of that experience, it must have been frustrating for you to deal with clueless clients and pick up after their mistakes. I see the same in my Judo teacher who was in a fine fury with his new students the other night. “YOU, get out and start rolling.” “ARGGHH, the same thing every night. You shouldn’t even need to ask me!” “Didn’t you see anything of what I just showed you!!!” And then finally: “This nose-blowing is getting out of hand!!!”


    • Matt61,

      The 30-30 is far from obsolete in my book and the Winchester 94 is a fine platform for that round. Not sure I’d classify it as the ultimate deer rifle since hunting environments can vary dramatically.

      I haven’t looked seriously at modern hunting rifles since I have plenty and don’t hunt anymore. Can’t imagine putting a reflex sight on a hunting rifle though. Maybe I’m out of touch.

      Tracking wounded animals for me was when I guided hunts for deer and elk. Not scary stuff. Just necessary, responsible and humane.

      Hope all is well with you.


    • Matt61
      Here’s what I found at Pyramyd AIR.

      Found some shaped like animals on Amazon but not what I remembred so didn’t post that link.

      What’s interesting they say in the PA description you can mix saw dust in the ice to make them last longer and not melt away as fast. Sounds like fun to me.

      • GF1,

        Totally off topic, but what would the (limit on fill) be with the hammer spring full in and the striker stoke full out? I have yet to have an issue with the hammer at 5 in and the striker 1 out (from factory) and filling to 3200. And I said before,… I have yet to see anything that even mimics partial valve lock.

        If you do not have an answer, does doing +50 (at a time) sound good enough?

        • Chris USA
          First have you shot over the chrony at a 3200 psi fill with the 3 different pellets you chose to use yet?

          And most important right now. Write down those readings from the chrony. Do at least 20 shots and write the chrony readings down.

          And as I said before record the guns pressure every 5 shots. Well scratch that. Write down the guns pressure after every shot next to the chrony reading on your paper the best you can from the guns gauge.

          After you do that with each pellet then I’ll tell you if you even need to worry about going above 3200 psi right now.

          I want to see those things recorded with each pellet then I can give you a true answer.

          • GF1,

            Well,…. a hard 4 day week,.. and tomorrow off,…. and you are giving me “homework”? 😉

            Notes made and will do. I will adjust and see POI. Then verify with chrony. I got 25.39 chrony data up to 15 shots from 3100~2000, 900~821,.. but I think we discussed that I will be moving on to heavier pellets.

            31.02, 5 shots, 2700~2500, 786~793 and 33.95, 5 shots, 3000~?, 738~744,… but those were with lesser settings. (Stock in fact). IN FACT,… those readings do suggest a bit of partial valve lock,… at least the stock settings anyways.

            Will report back,….. Chris

            • Chris USA
              I did not see your 7:51pm post when I did my 9:23 PM post.


              And we will see more when you got chrony readings and pressure wrote down side by side of each shot. Just post when you get a chance tomorrow or whenever.

        • Chris USA
          Well I thought you would of responded back some way by now. Did you take off tomorrow like you said?

          I was wanting you to have that information in front of you that I asked for so you could see what the gun was doing the way you have it set. I wanted to show you how to look at your readings to see what the valve was doing.

          So I’m just going to say this much right now.

          You are not after valve lock. You don’t want to even be close to valve lock.

          What you do want to know is when partial valve lock is happening. Partial valve lock is seen usually by your first I’m just going to say 3-5 chrony readings are a given velocity. Then as you shoot your next 3-5 shots you see velocity increase. That will be the reading to look at on your guns gauge. That will most likely be your high fill pressure for the tune the gun has on it.

          And this is what your chrony readings will show you if you could fill the gun to a higher pressure for a given tune. If you shoot your first 3 shots and the velocity stays pretty close to the same for each shot or maybe drops of slightly and you continue to shoot 3-5 more shots and the velocity kind of stays the same or drops of a little. Well that means your not getting even partial valve lock. So the gun could be filled higher.

          So the next thing you look for if you do fill higher is when those feww first shots are slower then the next set of shots. That means you reached the fill pressure when partial valve lock is starting to occur.

          Partial valve lock is from to much fill pressure to knock the valve open and it gives a lower velocity. So you want to establish your fill pressure by the velocity the gun makes on those first 6-10 shots. That’s why I wanted the chrony readings along with the psi at that shots velocity.

          If I didn’t explain it clearly ask me what you want and I’ll see if I can do better the next time around.

          And tomorrow and Saturday will be tuff for me to reply. Got alot going on.

          • GF1,

            Yea, I understand what you are saying. And no, I was not trying to achieve valve lock. With the gun adjusted the way it is now, I stated that I was not even seeing anything close to valve lock, even partial. By partial, I mean the lower readings, followed by higher readings in a string.

            Then I noticed the very first (stock) chrony readings and saw that (lower going higher) situation. I mentioned that above with the 2 heavier pellets. In fact, the lighter 25.39’s showed the same. So, a 3000 fill, at stock settings, was about the limit.

            Ok on the busy. I got more than enough to keep me busy as well.

            Thanks,… Chris

  10. Jack

    The question may be irrelevant but are you considering hand loading for Jill at this time? I have been very busy today and have tried to keep up with the comments; It seems that the delicate balance between performance and shootability is even more pronounced with a shooter of Jill’s preferences. I would think that the .32 h&r mag and the .380auto would be good rounds to consider but I would think that either one with regular rln would be less than effective for optimum performance. By the same token self defense ammo can be very expensive (especially to practice with) especially considering the “acceptable performance” most people expect in their carry weapon. I am able to handload but I know that going through the trouble of making specialized ammo can be very discouraging for some. I hope I haven’t repeated others in my comment.

Leave a Comment

Buy With Confidence

  • Free Shipping

    Get FREE shipping on qualifying orders! Any order $150+ with a shipping address in the contiguous US will receive the option for free ground shipping on items sold & shipped by Pyramyd AIR during checkout. Certain restrictions apply.

    Free shipping may not be combined with a coupon unless stated otherwise.

    View Shipping Info

  • Shipping Time Frame

    We work hard to get all orders placed by 12 pm EST out the door within 24 hours on weekdays because we know how excited you are to receive your order. Weekends and holiday shipping times will vary.

    During busy holidays, we step our efforts to ship all orders as fast as possible, but you may experience an additional 1-2 day delay before your order ships. This may also happen if you change your order during processing.

    View Shipping Times

  • Shipping Restrictions

    It's important to know that due to state and local laws, there are certain restrictions for various products. It's up to you to research and comply with the laws in your state, county, and city. If you live in a state or city where air guns are treated as firearms you may be able to take advantage of our FFL special program.

    U.S. federal law requires that all airsoft guns are sold with a 1/4-inch blaze orange muzzle or an orange flash hider to avoid the guns being mistaken for firearms.

    View Shipping Restrictions

  • Expert Service and Repair

    Get the most out of your equipment when you work with the expert technicians at Pyramyd AIR. With over 25 years of combined experience, we offer a range of comprehensive in-house services tailored to kickstart your next adventure.

    If you're picking up a new air gun, our team can test and tune the equipment before it leaves the warehouse. We can even set up an optic or other equipment so you can get out shooting without the hassle. For bowhunters, our certified master bow technicians provide services such as assembly, optics zeroing, and full equipment setup, which can maximize the potential of your purchase.

    By leveraging our expertise and precision, we ensure that your equipment is finely tuned to meet your specific needs and get you ready for your outdoor pursuits. So look out for our services when shopping for something new, and let our experts help you get the most from your outdoor adventures.

    View Service Info

  • Warranty Info

    Shop and purchase with confidence knowing that all of our air guns (except airsoft) are protected by a minimum 1-year manufacturer's warranty from the date of purchase unless otherwise noted on the product page.

    A warranty is provided by each manufacturer to ensure that your product is free of defect in both materials and workmanship.

    View Warranty Details

  • Exchanges / Refunds

    Didn't get what you wanted or have a problem? We understand that sometimes things aren't right and our team is serious about resolving these issues quickly. We can often help you fix small to medium issues over the phone or email.

    If you need to return an item please read our return policy.

    Learn About Returns

Get FREE shipping on qualifying orders! Any order $150+ with a shipping address in the contiguous US will receive the option for free ground shipping on items sold & shipped by Pyramyd AIR during checkout. Certain restrictions apply.

Free shipping may not be combined with a coupon unless stated otherwise.

View Shipping Info

Text JOIN to 91256 and get $10 OFF Your Next $50+ Order!

* By providing your number above, you agree to receive recurring autodialed marketing text msgs (e.g. cart reminders) to the mobile number used at opt-in from Pyramyd AIR on 91256. Reply with birthday MM/DD/YYYY to verify legal age of 18+ in order to receive texts. Consent is not a condition of purchase. Msg frequency may vary. Msg & data rates may apply. Reply HELP for help and STOP to cancel. See Terms and Conditions & Privacy Policy.