Terminology is important

by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

A history of airguns

This report covers:

  • Happy birthday, USA!
  • Terms are important
  • What is a rifle?
  • Flintlock?
  • Target rifle?
  • One-pump rifle
  • Match trigger
  • Thumbhole stock
  • Semiautomatic
  • Dovetail scope base
  • BB gun
  • Summary

Happy birthday, USA!

Today is July 4th, the day the U.S. A. celebrates its independence. I hope readers overseas will forgive my shorter report.

Terms are important

It may be short but this subject is important. Using the correct terms for airguns and firearms ensures good communication of ideas between people, while sloppy terminology promotes mistakes. You can check me out on most of this by looking at the auction website, Gun Broker.

What is a rifle?

A rifle is a long gun that has a rifled barrel, but to many people all long guns are rifles. They either think it doesn’t mattert or they actually don’t know there is a difference between a rifle and a gun. When this gets them in trouble is when they list a “rifle” for sale that actually has no rifling. I see this a lot on Gun Broker in the muzzle loading section. People don’t discriminate between true rifles and smoothbore guns that are most appropriately called fowlers — which are precursors to shotguns.

When it gets REALLY confusing is when the item in question is actually a smooth rifle — a smoothbore gun made with rifle sights and (usually) double set triggers. Smooth rifles are a very specialized class of smoothbore gun that have accuracy competitions within their narrow class of firearm! Now, tell me all long guns are rifles!

Flintlock?

While researching the Teach me to shoot blog series, I ran into many percussion guns listed as flintlocks. Some of them had started out as flintlocks and been converted to percussion, but a fair number of them had always been percussion guns (guns that use an explosive percussion cap to ignite the charge of black powder, rather than a flint rock striking a piece of hardened steel). Several of these dealers admitted they were just antique dealers and were selling these guns are decorations, only, but I bet they would have a fit if I described a pressed-glass goblet as cut crystal! Or, if I put a crystal price on the pressed glass, they way they put a flintlock price on the percussion gun. You see, when you are loose with words, it’s easy to deceive.

Target rifle?

Manufactures are as guilty of this misuse as private individuals. Slapping the title Target Rifle on a product doesn’t make it more accurate. Nor do adjustable sights. These makers don’t care about accuracy. They are hoping novice shooters will be drawn to the title and buy the AR-15, thinking is must be accurate. The heavy barrel it sports doesn’t make it more accurate, either, unless certain things have been done — things that will cost the buyer hundreds more dollars, if they ever hope to compete with the gun. This is open deception at work!

One-pump rifle

Think that refers to a Daisy 853? Think again. Some non-shooting person in the marketing department used that term to describe the breakbarrel rifle they were trying to promote. Ain’t no pumping involved with this one! It may sound harmless to the marketing people, but a lot of customers will start wondering what this thing really is. Is it a pneumatic or a springer? It makes a difference.

Match trigger

What? You mean a kitchen match? Because that’s what it feels like to pull your 5-pound creepy trigger — like breaking a wooden matchstick!

Thumbhole stock

Okay, I see the big hole in your buttstock. Is that what you are calling a thumbhole stock? Because it isn’t. A thumbhole stock fits the hand like a glove. There is a small hole for JUST the thumb to fit through, and it is angled and contoured to feel just right — not something that looks like several boards were nailed together to meet the legislative requirements of countries where an import points system drives the design of airguns!

Semiautomatic

The term semiautomatic refers to how the hammer or striker is cocked. If it is cocked by the action of the gun when it fires, it is semiautomatic — and fully automatic means it both cocks and continues to fire as long as the trigger remains depressed.

When the action of the trigger advances a cylinder loaded with pellets, so that the next pellet aligns with the barrel, it is a revolver. It doesn’t matter that it looks like a semiautomatic pistol on the outside. The trigger pull will be long and hard because of all the work it has to do (turn the cylinder and cock the striker or hammer).

Dovetail scope base

That’s fine, but it’s incomplete. Is it 11 dovetail or is it Picatinney? “Come on, B.B., everyone know that dovetail refers to 11mm grooves!” Yes, I am sorry to say, they probably do. I have lost that battle. But what about …

BB gun

When I was a kid, everybody knew what a BB gun was. It shot a steel sphere called a BB, whose history was traced back to actual BB-sized lead birdshot. In 2016, though, the Asian makers of airsoft guns have been calling their 6 mm spherical plastic ammunition “BB Bullets” just long enough to confuse everyone. So when mom shops for a BB gun at the discount store for his son, she buys a Red Ryder and a bottle of 0.20-gram airsoft ammo. For those who don’t see the disconnect (thanks to the mis-labeling of airsoft ammo) those two are not compatible. Don’t expect the 22-year-old salesperson to help you. She’s just as confused as you are! In fact, unless this is brought to their attention, neither party will be aware this is even a problem.

Summary

It’s getting worse. Every year I see more and more mistakes being made because of misused terms, sloppy use of words and product disinformation. It is to the point that to explain the problem I often have to give a short class on what the terms really mean (and even why they mean that, for some people). Like what is the difference between a single-stage trigger and a single-action trigger?

This week I will start my review of the new Beeman Dual air rifle that Pyramyd Air has had to rename the Beeman Double Barrel air rifle, to keep from confusing its customers. This product says it is a Beeman Dual right on the box, but Pyramyd Air dares not use that name or they will confuse their customers who will think it is one of the Beeman Dual Caliber air rifles that come with dual caliber interchangeable barrels!

70 thoughts on “Terminology is important

  1. BB,

    I thought you had taken the day off!

    Proper communication is always important, most especially when attempting to educate someone who is unfamiliar with the subject. Intentional miscommunication by people such as marketeers is unforgivable. To lie for the sake of greed should be a crime, but then we would have to lock up almost all of the politicians, which come to think of it would not be a bad idea.

    So you are going to test that Beeman Whatchamacallit. This should prove to be interesting, if not outright amusing. Other than a collectible oddity, the reasoning behind this escapes me. The dual caliber, selectable version may perhaps be slightly more practical. Without the selector you would have to load and shoot both barrels every time unless the provide a plug for such. I am curious as to whether the rear sights are separately adjustable.


  2. Pingback: Terminology is important | Airguns: Air Rifles and Pistols

  3. Good luck with the Beeman Dual. I understand that the barrels are soda straws inside a shroud. If you look at the Hard air magazine test, the barrels would not shoot to a consistent point relative to each other. They should have put two solid barrels on the gun.



      • Michael,

        The other version with a .177 and a .22 barrel on it does have a selector. If I could get my hands on one of those I might do so. Of course I would get me two new barrels for it to replace the two straws. Who knows, with a little machine work it might even be worth having.


  4. Good article. You corrected me awhile back that my 92FS was a revolver, that is inside of a semi-auto looking frame.

    Beeman Dual, mmmm? Interesting indeed. I could not believe the price point. That seems really low for a wood stocked rifle. How will you do a 10 shot test with that? A 10 shot target with 20 holes in it?

    I must admit that it is a bit like a train wreck,…. I will not be able to look away! 😉

    I got a feeling that they are going to sell a TON of these. Of course,.. us hard core air gunners are going to wait for the “low down” from you. Still, I’ll bet they won’t even be able to keep these in stock because they will move so quickly, especially at that price.




      • B.B.,

        It might be interesting (or not) to load a Gamo Raptor PBA in one barrel and a Beeman Kodiak in the other. Kind of a one-two punch combination!

        Michael


        • Michael,

          I am thinking more precision pellets. (As in Match “Uber” Premium). Even weigh and do the Pelletgage just to sure. It would be nice to see them land the same distance apart,… shot(s) after shot(s).

          There is enough going on with 1 barrel and gun,.. let alone 2 barrels and 1 gun. Should be interesting. A springer to boot. A PCP?,…. Mmmm? How ’bout a side by side? Sorry,… now that would be cool.

          Bad aim?,…. Having trouble with your steady?,…… Well,….. Have “we” got the fix for you!!!! 😉


  5. Happy 4th!!

    I agree that terminology is important but frequently, depending on the audience and the level discussion, more “generic” generally understood terms are more appropriate.

    If I said that “my PCP will shoot .5” CTC groups at 50 with JSB 18.13s @ 850 fps with an average ES of 5 over a fill of 40 shots” some portion of the readers would know exactly what I meant.

    In a general discussion I would probably say “my pellet gun can hit a dime at 150 feet”.

    I will often use the term “gun” generically to mean all rifles/shotguns/muzzle loaders and pistols even though I know it is not the correct term.

    It does bother me when the marketing people will deliberately use incorrect terms to mislead the unknowing public in order to make a quick sale to someone who will be unhappy with their purchase.

    QUESTION B.B….

    What would be the proper term for the lever operated rifles that have a rotary magazine? (like those used on AA, FX, Weihrauch etc.) They are not “bolt action” or “revolvers”.

    Rambling done, back to work. 🙂

    Hank


    • Hank,

      Writers like me waffle on sidelevers and call them that. They are really bolt actions. And yes, they are bolt action revolvers, though I would just say repeater to keep the confusion level down.

      As far as the term gun goes, I have been making that distinction since I was a teenager in the 1960s. I also never refer to a firearm as a “real gun” the way many people do. Again, as a writer, I try to be as straightforward as possible.

      B.B.


      • “Sidelever Repeater” – think that is the most accurate description.

        Makes sense, the term “revolver” because is not appropriate because the lever rotates the magazine, not the pull of the trigger.

        “real gun” LOL! Try and justify that term to someone who hunts big game with a larger caliber “pellet gun”. 🙂

        B.B. you do an excellent job of keeping the confusion down! I can appreciate how challenging it is to write about technical articles to such a wide reader base.

        Hank



          • Or the Marauder? It has a bolt action to cock the internal hammer and load the pellet, yet the circular magazine/clip rotates under self contained spring pressure and is not operated by the gun in any way.


            • Chris,

              On the Marauder, are you sure the cycling of the bolt doesn’t cause the circular clip to be indexed to the next pellet position? On the Hammerli 850, when the bolt is drawn back, the bolt mechanism cocks the striker. When the bolt is pushed forward, the bolt mechanism rotates the circular clip to the next pellet position and loads the pellet. Since I don’t have a Marauder, I don’t know what mechanism actually advances the clip, but it looks like it could be similar to the Hammerli 850 mechanism. Pyramyd Air classifies both rifles as bolt-action repeaters.


              • Cstopher,

                I am sure. I have one. To load the circular clip, you rotate a cover almost 360 degrees. This winds a spring inside the clip. You drop in the pellets, one at time and allow the cover to come back around a little at a time, which exposes the next pellet hole. By the time you load the last one, the cover is back to it’s start position. In order for the clip to advance to the next pellet, a pellet must first be pushed out of the clip.

                So,.. cock bolt, pop in clip, slide bolt forward, fire. Now,.. when the bolt is pulled back and leaves the clip,… the clips rotates under (it’s own) spring pressure and brings the next pellet in line with breech. Repeat. And man on man,…. it is all to easy to repeat. I have had to double my lead budget! 😉


      • BB
        I overlooked your comment for some reason.

        I can’t stand when somebody calls a firearm a real gun. Why wouldn’t it be real. Be it a firearm or whatever kind of gun it is.


  6. I would maybe cut the average shooter some slack. Shooting sports niches have developed across many languages, hundreds of years, constant evolution in technology, and very different purposes. A shotgunner might know what a dram is, but a rimfire shooter might think it’s something that goes in a computer. That’s the average shooter – I would hold manufacturers, marketers, and the media to a higher standard. Precision in terminology is essential for conveying exact shades of meaning.

    I have witnessed all the examples you cited, and there are certainly others. Like the difference between a single/double set trigger, a single/two stage trigger, and a single/double action trigger. Or point blank range. Or clip vs. magazine. Or gauge vs. caliber.

    The one I can’t figure out is how the National Firearms Museum determined that Prince Charles’ FWB 124 is a “semi-automatic” (see the website).



    • I agree with this. Terminology is important, but it can turn into fussiness. I was reading an interview with Vladimir Vasiliev, former commando of the Soviet Union and martial arts instructor, and he referred to putting “clips” in a handgun. Maybe there was a language barrier here, but anyway, the man knows how to shoot. I’ve seen him cock a Beretta 92 by kicking the slide with his heel or working it against his belt. Or maybe this not a lesson in terminology so much as not to underestimate who you are messing with.

      Matt61


  7. Having one language for terminologies is hard enough. It gets worse when the audience is bilingual and freely mixers both languages with abandon. Having a hard time correcting them without coming across as some sort of Grammar Nazi.


  8. B.B.

    Yes, sir. Using correct terms is important to any discussion, especially with technical and engineering subjects, and your persistence is appreciated. It’s just something that you have to do for us to have a serious conversation.

    Thanks, and have a super 4th!

    Walt


  9. First hope everybody is having a good and safe 4th of July.

    Can’t wait to see what the Beeman double barrel is going to do. Maybe it will surprise me. In more ways that I can imagine I’m thinking. But it will be interesting to see.

    Hmm maybe it will need two different weight pellets to hit at your zero in distance. Ok just a thought. 😉


    • GF1,

      Well, checked the live radar,…. a 20 minute window??? I went for it! First out was the target, second was the related accessories, last was the gun. 50 yards,.. to go with the recent data.

      Set up, AO dialed in, 3 eight round clips loaded, relaxed,…. and what? Sprinkles!!! 🙁 Light, but my “baby” was getting “peppered” with rain drops. 🙁

      I got to test my “quick acquisition”. Rushed,… to say the least. In the end, no better, no worse.

      Pulling the “rig” down, I noticed the bi-pod was turned about 20 degrees. ( I set the gun off to the side a bit, to get up and down from my seat) Not sure if that was a factor, it is single point mounted, but having the legs askew to the target, I do not like it.

      Oh well,…. there will be the next time.


      • Chris USA
        You did drill out the piece on the front of the barrel? And did your gun get quieter by chance? Mine did.

        And I guess your just stuck with the accuracy its getting now.

        I still wonder what kind of groups you would get with the factory synthetic stock on it. And I’ll tell you what my scope mounted bi-pod on my Mrod and Talon SS made a difference in them.

        And remember when I’m doing those videos with my .25 Mrod I don’t even have the stock of the gun shouldered. I can still get steady enough to hit a corn cob at a 100 yards. You should see how stable it is when I have the gun shouldered and looking through the scope. The mildot just rests on the corn cob with no movement. I don’t even have to think about it. I just gently pull the trigger until the shot goes off and continue till I hit the end of the trigger movement.

        Maybe your jerking your trigger instead of a gradual continuous pull.

        But I really would like to see if the gun shoots the same groups with the factory synthetic stock. Really that would be a good experiment. Just because you say your holding steady enough to see your heart beat in the scope doesn’t mean that the gun aint moving some kind of way in the aftermarket stock. I now that’s something you ain’t wanting to hear and you have avoided it. But that’s part of modding. You have to go back and try things to see. And I don’t think you even shot groups with the synthetic stock when you got it. If not that’s a mistake. Sorry just say’n.


        • GF1,

          All good points. Remember though, fit and LOP. No problem though, I will keep that in mind. Let’s see what it does next time out. As far as “going back”,…. I pulled the action shims and upped the trigger pressure, after going lighter,… so yea,… I have no trouble “going back”. Ok, maybe just a “little” when it comes to the RAI stock. 😉


          • Chris USA
            You can add a longer butt pad like you did the Tx and LGU if I’m remembering right. And remember the the gen 2 Mrod wood and synthetic stock comes with a adjustable comb. So they can be set up nice.

            All you got to do is get you the longer butt pad. It’s only one bolt to change the stock remember. Drop the action back in and shoot. If it was mine I sure would be trying it.


            • GF1,

              Well,… you are a persistent one aren’t you? I never saw that coming! 😉

              Quieter? Maybe, I was in a bit of a rush. I think trigger pull technique is pretty good. I have had some “trigger time”. But, always aware,…. easy to get slack. The TX and LGU are still too short, , even with the 1″ Limb Savers,…but work. “They” are mad,….. REAL MAD! 😉


              • Chris USA
                That’s why I have my 4 favorite air rifles out on the table everytime I shoot. And now the Brodax is included. Got to keep them all happy. 😉

                But yep the pcp’s will spoil ya.

                Don’t know if you caught my user name on the you tube videos I posted over the weekend with the air gun shots. But that’s how I chose (Flyn5 Too). Because of the 5 air guns I shoot everytime. The Tx, .25 Mrod, 1377 Discovery conversion, .22 caliber Talon SS and now the Brodax. 🙂

                And you say the length of pull is still too short on the Tx and LGU. But you still do like shooting them. 😉

                Here goes persistent me. Try the factory synthetic stock. Come on I want to see if it makes a difference. Man just think maybe your missing out on .400″ groups at 50 yards. I just had to do that.
                🙂
                😉 😉


                • GF1,

                  I am getting “lucky” with “some” .400’s at 50 now. Now,…. if you are talking .400 at 100, well then, the RAI may have to go up for sale. But yea, 1 screw,….. 😉

                  “Everything has a limit”,… to Charles,…. are you sure that was not “aimed” in 2 directions at once? Just sayin’,…. just sayin’. 😉


                  • Chris USA
                    And how much would that synthetic stock be worth if you get consistent .400″ groups at 50 yards and 1-5/16″ consistently at 100 yards. Only one screw. 😉

                    And maybe right about everything has its limits. And maybe that’s part of what Charles and I was saying about enjoying shooting for what the gun gives.

                    And yes I know I like accurate guns too. But some of the less accurate ones can be just as fun. 🙂


    • GF1,

      Rainy Fourth of July in St. Louis is a good day for indoor target shooting. I got out my Winchester MP4 to shoot since I hadn’t shot it in a while. I’ve got it sighted in really well with JSB Exact RS Diabolos and shot and 8 shot group center target about 1.5 inch. I know this is not a high accuracy target quality air rifle, but with the right pellet, it can do rather well. Having Fun!


      • Charles
        It’s been raining over here in Illinois too.

        First I’m lucky that I stay dry though. I shoot from inside the breezeway. I got a small end table cabinet type deal set by one of the windows. But I know what you mean. I been shooting that Brodax pistol with the Python metal clips and using pellets. I set about 4 or 5 cans out at 10 – 15 yards and blast away at them in double action on the trigger pull.

        How accurate is it? Accurate enough for me to hit the cans every shot. 🙂


        • GF,

          I know exactly what you mean by accurate enough. This MP4 rifle is very finicky with pellets. After getting that tight 8 shot group with the JSB Exact RS Diabolo, the MP4 spit out a couple of fliers with those JSBs. I changed magazines to shoot some Air Arms Falcons, and the group was about 2.75 inches. But as I said before, this MP4 is not a high accuracy target rifle; it’s a Fun Rifle! If I can shoot this MP4 from 10 meters bench rested and get groups that are mostly centered within about 3 inch diameter I’m happy.


          • Charles
            You ain’t going to believe what the Brodax ended up liking. The cheapy Daisy wadcutters. For some reason the Daisy wadcutters shoot good out of the smooth bore guns I tryed them in. My later model smooth bore 760 likes them to.

            But I’m glad the Brodax likes them. I have been going through them pretty fast with it. It is a very fun pistol to just blast away at targets with. Very happy I got it.

            And yep it’s nice to not have to worry about getting every last drop of accuracy wringed out of a gun everytime I shoot it. Enjoying it for what it is fine also. And finding the guns distance limit was the big thing. Once I found how far out it liked to shoot it became a very nice shooter.

            Everything has a limit. 🙂


      • Cstoehr,

        The 499 is hard to beat for an indoor plinker. You will feel like you are the “World Champion” with that baby.

        It has peeper sights,.. ever tried those?


        • Chris,

          The closest thing to a peep sight I have is the original rear open sight that came on the MP4. I couldn’t see the target well enough with that. Otherwise, none of my rifles have peep sights. With my bifocal corrective lenses, I prefer 4X scopes at 10 meters.


          • Charles
            The Tasco red dot sight I have is great at 10 m.

            Have you ever tryed one for up close shooting? They work nice for close and far shooting. What’s nice about the one I have it has 11 brightness settings. So you can set it for different light conditions. Plus the diameter of the red dot gets bigger as the brightness is increased. So I can dail in the dot size for the target I’m shooting at too.

            Once you mess with adjustable brightness red dot sights it opens up a new avenue of shooting. Once you spend some time with them they can be very accurate and easy to use. I shoot mine with both eyes open on my Tx. Put it this way I can hit 1-1/2″ spinners from 10 yards out 60 yards with no problem. That’s a pretty versatile pesting gun if you ask me. And you can get on target fast with them. People don’t know what their missing if they don’t try them.


            • GF

              I’ve got a couple of Center Point Multi-TAC dot sights. Initially I mounted them on my Crosman 3576 and Dan Wesson 6 inch revolvers. They worked well for me at distances of about 15 to 20 feet, but they also made the revolvers heavy. I initially put one of them on the MP4, but at 10 meters I just prefer a magnified scope. Those Center Point Multi-TAC dot sights have both red and green dots with brightness adjustments and a selector for the type of dot. I’m still looking for another gun to put them on.


              • Charles
                I had that Tasco red dot on a lot of different guns.

                My .22 semi-auto Winchester 190. The 1077, a couple Discovery’s and some 1377/1399 stock with Discovery barrel and breeches. And a few others through out time.

                I never shot pistol much in the past so can’t say I know to much about the feel of one on a pistol. But I sure like it on my tuned .177 Tx. It will not come off that gun. If I want a dot sight on another gun I’m going to have to by one. That’s how much I like it on the Tx.


          • Cstoehr,

            I wear glasses too. I do not shoot with them at all. Mostly for up close with very little distance correction,…. the peepers work perfect. Just like a scope. Try them if you ever get the chance.

            As for the 499,… the accuracy is legendary.


  10. God, bless America
    Land that I love…

    So challenge question, what do you call the cylindrical pellet holder for the Crosman 1077 and what about the box that it sits in? Magazine or clip? If a magazine contains its own mechanism for feeding the round, then both of these things should be clips because the advancing mechanism is the trigger. But this seems like a murky area.

    Thanks for the advice on lubricating my leather sling. I’m going with the Neat’s foot oil for a number of reasons. First, it is a memorial for my dear old Grandpa. I never did get that baseball glove exactly right. Secondly, it justifies getting my paratrooper jump boots. This is an accounting trick of a character named Robert Moses who wielded almost unlimited power as part of the New York transit authority in the early 20th century and virtually invented the concept of parkways. His theory was that you push a project forward without worrying about funding because the project will attract funding with its own momentum. So my Neat’s foot oil will attract the boots. The oil is an interesting product that is derived from the leg bones of cattle. I guess it makes sense to find the moisturizer of leather from its original source. My Dad tells me of another baseball glove treatment gone awry when one of his friends submerged his whole glove in a bath of Neat’s foot oil. It lost its shape so that he could roll it up and put it in his pocket. But I won’t be trying that one.

    Fido3030, an improvement on the Bowie design is an interesting concept for a couple of reasons. The first is that there seems to be some ambiguity around exactly what a Bowie knife was. We think of it as a big clip point knife, but a source I read says that it was used to refer to just about any kind of fighting knife. Some Bowie knives had no clip point and were as short as four inches. Secondly, the clip point is not an original American design but one of the oldest in existence that goes back to Mesopotomia. Over the millenia, clip pointed blades like the Chinese broadsword, the Western medieval Gross Messer, the Islamic scimitar and many more have modified the shape in just about every way imaginable. Still, it is fair to say that the Randall #1 stands out among its contemporaries. Is the improvement, the sharpened upper edge next to the point? Perhaps, although my understanding is that this part of the knife was for the back-cut technique. It was very difficult to do and not common. And, as more of a hooking thrust than a cut, it relied more on the point than the upper edge. I would place my money for the improvement on the slight recurve in the lower edge for more cutting power.

    This line of thinking also leads me to wonder about the even more famous Ka bar. This is clearly a Bowie style knife which seems to conspicuously lack its distinguishing features. Namely, it has no belly and virtually no clip point. Nevertheless it had high praise from the Marines in WWII who used it quite heavily. And I see now that my initial impression of it as a clunky blade was wrong. It is very speedy in the hand. It also has fine workmanship which makes up for a lot.

    ChrisUSA, you obviously don’t live in California if you have a fondness for switchblades. My first folding knife was a lockback, and I was disappointed to see that you cannot operate it one-handed as you can with a liner lock. But I prefer the stronger lock of the lockback. Having the knife close on my hand is a horror story. I have one assisted opening knife that I enjoy. But you can get so fast with an unassisted folder that I don’t know that the assist makes much of a difference or the switchblade either. The five inch Gerber folder is impressive. I was interested in mega-folders myself of which the ultimate seems to be the Cold Steel Espada with a 7 inch blade. It is quite attractive despite its very high price. However, I lost interest when I found that the spring is so powerful that you can lose a finger when opening or closing it.

    Matt61


    • Matt61,

      Is there “anything” that you are not “read up” on,… or have tried? I like your idea of the Neat’s Foot oil justifying another purchase,….. maybe if I buy a can of .30 caliber pellets,…. it will bring a .30 cal. air gun? 😉

      Good comment. We can rely on you to bring the “background” to what the rest of us are just speculating,…. with some exceptions,.. of course.

      As for blades, I have had quite a few. I get the Smokey Mountain Knife Works catalog, but always thought that the “Cold Steel” was a cheap line. A quick check just now put them in the 100 and under range. Not bad. I have a bad enough “vice” with air guns now,….. I do not need another. The Gerber I have now is nice and takes a quick edge well. Plus, it fits my big hands.

      Chris


    • Matt61,

      Liner lock or lock back, both require a thumb stud to operate I handed,…. so not sure what you mean about the liner lock being a 1 hander. The Gerber, lock back, thumb stud,…. a partial open,… and a quick “flip”,.. and all is good and quick.


      • Chris USA
        Don’t know why this just came to my mind. But figured I better post before I forget.

        Have you changed to a different tin of pellets for your .25 Mrod before or around when we did our little 100 yard competition?

        You never sorted the JSB 33.95’s before that did you? JSB’s are usually pretty consistent from tin to tin. But maybe your first tin off JSB’s was what your Mrod liked. But then again on the other hand my Mrod has not been that pellet picky.

        Just thought I would bring that up. Man now you really got me thinking about your gun.


        • GF1,

          I am not sure. I believe I was on my last can (of 2) of the Reg. 33.95’s at the time. I have very few of those left. I ordered the MKII by mistake this time. For our contest, I just weighed/head sorted to insure any off shots were not the pellet’s fault.

          I will tell you though, when I weighed the MKII (275) I was very unimpressed with the spread. I had them from 33.4 to 34.5. Of those, I had 50 that were out of that range., mostly under 33.4.

          Head size was good, with the majority at .2495 and some at .2500.

          I have some 25.39’s sorted as well. I have some in all 12 pockets of an egg carton.

          From the looks of it, head size is not an issue. I doubt that I will even bother with that again. The weight does bother me though. I would think that a pellet coming in at 33.4, and one at 34.5,…. are going to shoot differently.

          If you have a scale, it would be interesting for to weigh some 33.95’s to see what you get. Just 20 or 50. It does not take that long, as you know. My scale only does .X, not .XX.


          • Chris USA
            I had a scale several years back till I dropped it and broke it. And I bet I only weight sorted for a month. The weight never made any difference that I could see group wise. And I was shooting at only 15- 50 yards pretty much back then and maybe some 60 and 70 yard shots. And especially when they were as close in weight as what you got. There was some pellet brands that had a bigger weight variation than what you had and still shot good.

            I also sorted for size back then too. Head side made the biggest difference. Then waist size made some difference as well as over all length if there was variation in those features. The head size made the biggest difference that I could tell.

            It seemed once I found a pellet brand that was pretty consistent that’s what I started buying. That was back when I got my first .177 caliber Marauder. And believe me I tryed a bunch of different brand and types of pellets. And you know what pellets I shoot today in my .177, .22 and .25 caliber guns. Sorting does help but only if you have a pellet brand that has a lot of variation. Some people swear by it. I don’t compete so no big deal to me. And my guns are pretty accurate. I think anyway. You just need to figure out how far you want to go.


            • GF1,

              Interesting. I would have thought that 33.4 – 34.5 would (NOT) be considered good, but if you say that it is, then I will take your word on it. The goal was to shoot pellets in the same weight, or close, and not shoot pellets at opposite ends of the spread, in 1 group. I can say that I have not seen a pronounced difference with the sorted ones, so that backs up what you are saying.

              Thanks, Chris


              • Chris USA
                That’s the thing. All that can be done is try things and see what the results are. That’s why I keep bringing up the point of trying the synthetic stock. To me it would be a mistake if it wasn’t tryed. You never know till you try.


    • Matt 61
      Sorry, I should have said the Randall #1 was an improvement on the traditional Bowie. I agree there’s no agreement on what Jim Bowie’s original knife looked like and the term Bowie knife has been applied to many very different styles. The back of the Randall blade is not as sharp as the regular cutting edge but helps penetration on a thrust and is useful for a quick flick cut if your original move doesn’t work. The balance with a 7 inch blade is superb and it’s extremely manuverable. The angle of grip to point is just right. A good knife is like an extension of your body and builds confidence. You really have to handle one to see what I mean. Randall builds many different styles and there’s a reason for all so buy one of each!
      I have my Uncle’s Kabar that he used on Iwo Jima. It’s a fine knife also. But when he handled the Randall his eyes glowed.
      Fido3030


  11. G’day BB
    Semiautomatic what a term here. A single inertia trigger for a shotgun with 2 or 3 barrels is that semiautomatic?
    A self loading firearm is not quite the same as a semiautomatic?
    Cheers Bob


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