by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
This report covers:
- How to test?
- Targets set for powerful airguns
- Diana 27
- What the pellets did to the paddles
- Leveling
- Evaluation so far
Today will be a short report, but there is a lot in it. I’m testing the spinner airgun targets reader Codeuce made, and many of you readers were interested ion them in Part 1. Today I will show you how they work.
How to test?
Codeuce made two different sets of paddles for these targets. I showed them to you in Part 1. I said at that time that, based on how freely I saw the targets spinning, I didn’t think the lightweight set for lower-powered airguns was necessary. So I went my own direction for today’s test.
Targets set for powerful airguns
I tested the targets set up the way Codeuce sent them — with the heavier paddles installed. Let me show you how easy they work. ALLOW TIME FOR THE VIDEOS TO UPLOAD TO YOUR DEVICE!
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What do you think? Do you see why I thought they would work fine with a less powerful airgun? These are the most fluid spinners I have ever seen.
Diana 27
I’m shooting my Diana model 27 at the targets. I’m standing 15 feet away, and that’s just because I have to work the camera as well as shoot. This isn’t about my accuracy. It’s about how well these spinners function.
I’m shooting RWS Superdomes that exit the muzzle of this rifle with just over 7 foot-pounds of energy. I’m standing so close to the targets that you can figure that’s how hard they are being hit.
So let’s look at what these pellets do to the spinners.
What do you think? I have been shooting spinners for more than 30 years and these are the smoothest ones I have seen. That bearing makes a big difference!
What the pellets did to the paddles
The pellets left round splatters on the faces of the paddles with no deformation. I didn’t expect any at this power level. So the question is — what will a faster pellet do? I need to answer that for you (and for myself, as well).
Hitting the paddles with 30 foot-pounds will no doubt spin them fast enough to cut grass, but what else will it do? It needs to be tested. So that’s in the works.
Codeuce, I honestly think you can skip the lighter paddles. These targets work fine the way they are set up. This low-powered rifle will spin them at 25 yards pretty easily.
Leveling
A couple of you talked about leveling the targets. No doubt they will spin their best when level, but the one target in the videos is already spinning on an angle and it does fine, as you can see. Unless you live on the side of a mountain, leveling should not be a big concern.
Evaluation so far
These are great targets. They are perfect for private use, but made stout enough for a club. In my opinion, Codeuce has a winner on his hands.
I still plan to test them once more with a stronger air rifle. And there are things I could do but probably won’t — like testing them with a Benjamin Wildfire. Think how amazing that would be!
Codeuce,
Wonderful build. If somebody could calibrate the amount of energy needed to make the spinner move, one could easily compute for the answer if a pellet has sufficient retained energy to humanely take game at any range.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
Others have considered that: /blog/2009/12/the-ballistic-pendulum/
Michael
Yes one thought I had, but haven’t had time to try is putting a counter on it to gauge performance.
Did the vertical one have a counterbalance on it, while the angled one didn’t?
My gut doesn’t believe the difference in spinning is solely due to the angle.
Seantheaussie,
Both seem to be constructed the same way (one large plate target and one small plate target) except for the difference in mounting angle. The angled one slows down faster due to the increased surface area in contrast to a bearing mounted at right angle (I think). If this were to go into mass production it wouldn’t make sense to make them too different except for how the mounting bolt is angled.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
Yes that is correct about the spinner orientation affecting the amount of friction, very perceptive and I couldn’t have said it better.
Sean,
They are identical except for the angle. Both targets are very closely balanced to spin freely.
B.B.
My gut thinks with unbalanced arms the closer you get to horizontal, the longer it should spin. It should keep it’s opinions to itself.
Sean,
B.B. got it right about the bearing orientation affecting the amount of friction that must be overcome by the pellet. And please continue to share your valuable opinions.
B.B.
The comment about spinning fast enough to cut grass. I’ve shot at dandelion heads but Airgun mowing that’s a novel idea!!
Coduece and B.B.,
Very nice product and very nice job on the video’s B.B.. I think if they sold for $20 for 2, that would be real winner. 15 for 2, plus shipping would really make them a deal. Just my 2 cents from a consumers price point perspective. If that does not work, then 25 plus S/H.
Good Day to one and all,… Chris
LOL! Chris, you need to go back to part 1 and take a closer look at these. You are going to be lucky to see something like this for 25 each.
Chris,
So, $20 for 2 targets? I guess gas should cost 19 cents a gallon, too? 😉
B.B.
Chris USA,
Twenty dollars or less seems to be the price point that most target manufacturers use. How ever I’m reminded of an engineers saying that you can have it strong, easy to spin, or cheap,pick two.
Coduece,
True, true. Like you, I would opt for quality. No doubt the bearings add cost and the welding is a hand process. I did not mean any disrespect by offering price points. They were just honest opinions on what I would pay. Then again I am a cheap %, not rich, not poor and just trying to stretch a buck like everyone else.
You will have to excuse me now as I am heading out to look for that 19 cent gas B.B. mentioned. 😉 I just filled up at 2.69 after work. It has been 2.20 ish around here.
G’day Coduece,
I think a US gallon is around 4 litres, so for $2.20 to $2.70 that means $0.54 to $0.67 per litre……WOW!
A litre of premium in OZ is +$1.60 and a packet of cigarettes +$40.
Cheers Bob
Chris,
Hey none taken I’m looking for all points of view and I definitely welcome yours. And on another topic I haven’t shot these targets with anything over about 20 ftlbs so I’m looking forward with great trepidation to B.B. testing the limits
Coduece,
Yeah, I don’t know either. Your bearings will be a plus as that will reduce the initial resistance to get it moving. The fact that they are counter weighted is another, as opposed to a single hanging target. 2 different size plates, but (near) equally weighted would be the other thing to over come the initial resistance. You may have done that already. Turning the posts 90 would be another idea, but that would require a half twist in the strap to mount the plate.
A pellet hit to the paddle (post) would be a concern (bending, but not breaking the weld). A pellet hit to the outer bearing race would be another. Both will happen, you know that. The stand looks fine as it looks strong and presents a minimal profile to the shooter. There will definitely be fpe limits. While I do not have any spinners, I do believe that they all come with fpe limits,.. so yours would be no different in that regard.
A quick calculation of the .25 M-rod is around 60 fpe, so I guess that would be out. I said that I would continue to think about your spinners, and I have. I can not think of much to improve upon the quality of your idea without adding parts or added steps,.. all low cost killers.
Best wishes going forward and I wish you all of the success in the world.
Coduece,
Nice job!
R.R.
Thank you
B.B.,
I see these and three words come to mind: Walther Lever Action.
The Lever Action is about as much fun to shoot as an airgun can get, but at 5-6 foot-pounds, even the lightest spinners simply wobble to and fro. THIS would do the trick! It would perhaps even be responsive enough for the pellet versions of CO2 action pistols and revolvers, which rarely muster more than 2.5 foot-pounds.
Michael
Michael,
Yeah, that would work.
B.B.
Michael,
I think that with the fender washers installed, even an air soft gun could spin these targets although that hasn’t been tested yet. I do shoot them that way with my Umarex Browning pistol which at 250 FPS with a 7.9 pellet is pretty anemic, and I get several spins at 21 feet.
Coduece,
Really sweet spinners. Is it your intention to market these, eventually?
:^)
Tom I just saw your video on “Stranger Guns” good stuff I really enjoyed it.
You clean up very well. Only time I’ve seen you in a tie. 🙂
Can hardly wait for the rest of the P1 blog
Speakski,
When I taught I wore a suit and tie every day. Got tired of it and avoid it at all cost now.
B.B.
B.B.,
Jeans have always been the pants of those in the know, be it Rod McKuen, Tom Selleck or Neil Young (among others) and they are what I live in and hope to be buried in (some day).
~ken
Kenholmz,
That is quite the disparate trio! In particular I giggle at what reaction Tom Selleck would have with his name so close to Neil Young’s in a sentence. :^) Selleck and young do have high, squeaky voices in common, though.
When I think of the definitive denim clad pop culture figure, it’s Tom Laughlin as his (admittedly pretty silly in a sanctimonious sort of way) character Billy Jack. I still covet a zip-up denim jacket.
Michael
Michael,
I’ll go with all of that, Tom Laughlin included, but everyone mentioned does have blue denim in common – so they do have a starting point (in my book, anyway).
It is time for me to go looking for a denim jacket; thanks for the reminder.
~ken
Still got my denim jacket from when I was a kid. It don’t zip. And it don’t fit no more either. 🙂
But remember. I’m a country boy. Blue jeans and a black T shirt is me.
Gunfun1,
I know about the “don’t fit no more”. It is clear that you are ready for any black tie affairs that come your way.
~ken
Told my daughters I wanted a fleece lined Levi jacket for my birthday and the store had to search the entire western U.S. to find one, end of Aug. They are not too popular in CA but then again CA is not too popular with me. I don’t ask anyone what I should wear, and out in the country a blind man could tell you when the sun goes down in the fall. Perfect for having a few cool ones in the yard with your neighbors and plinking.
By the way I just picked a very low cost jacket at the place that begins with Wall””. It looks a lot like the short green military cold weather work jacket and has a hood sewn in. However, it does not store in a zippered pouch behind your neck. Believe it comes in other colors as well.
Bob M,
CA is a different world; I suppose Zorro failed in the end. I take it someone finally found a Levi jacket for you. Also, I’ll see if I can find that green jacket you mention. Thanks.
~ken
Kenholmz
It’s a Dickies Men’s Canvas Shirt Jacket, 28 bucks. Zipper and brass snaps, elastic cuffs, almost like the real thing. Debating whether or not to stencil one of my old squadron numbers on the back (VF-24) and cover it with military patches or just USN.
I’ll skip the ‘ DDS ‘ ( Descanso Detention Facility ) where I wore one for a week. Stretched out Harleys at 2AM will sometimes land you there.
They found the Levi one on a display, it was a lg size but too small due to all the fleece inside so I believe they eventually had to order one direct from the factory in XL. Had a long wait and received it near Christmas !
Sorry for the delay, your response went to junk mail.
Bob M
Bob M,
Ah, yes, the Fighting Renegades (just kidding; Google is my friend). I am sure that was quite an adventure. Glad you finally got that jacket. I need to lose weight or buy a jacket soon; I will probably be buying a jacket. I will also take a look at the Canvas Shirt Jacket.
Best to you, hombre –
~ken
Michael,
If you are independently wealthy, you need covet that denim jacket no longer.
http://www.magnoliclothiers.com/billy-jack-denim-jacket-casual-p-730.html
~ken
Michael,
Hold the presses. Here is an alternative source for yet another Billy Jack Jacket.
http://www.indianvillagemall.com/billyjackshirts.html
Last one, I promise. I just had to look for one.
~ken
Oops! No zipper on that last one. Sorry.
Kenholmz,
WOW! Thanks for the research on the “Billy Jacket.” The second one lacks the stitched M on the breast pockets as well as the zipper. It might match the buttoned jacket Laughlin wore in The Trial of Billy Jack, however. (Perhaps he went with buttons for the trial as they are more formal than zippers.) That second one also looks as though it has a corduroy collar, which the Billy Jack one did not have.
I never saw the fourth movie, Billy Jack Goes to Washington, but in the first film, The Born Losers, Billy is wearing the same zippered jacket he later wore in Billy Jack. In The Born Losers he does not yet have the flat-brimmed Native American style hat but is wearing a traditional cowboy hat.
$445 is pretty rich for my blood, unless it comes with a free Hapkido lesson from Master Bong Soo Han. ;^)
In high school I had a very cool (fake) sheep wool lined denim jacket with the sheep wool shoing on the outside of the collar. That was an excellent fall jacket.
Michael
Michael,
I well remember the “fleece” lined jacket. I am sure things have changed but Levi’s still makes variations on the theme. They call them Sherpa Trucker Jackets.
http://www.levi.com/US/en_US/category/men/clothing/jackets/itemtype/jeanjacketsandtruckers/_/N-2sZ1z13wzsZ8b0Z1z141ikZ1z13x71Z1z140oj
Gotta run,
~ken
BB,
The camera work es muy bueno! Why no Wildfire ? How ’bout a 1077, then ?
Halfstep,
Gotta draw the line somewhere. But I am thinking about it.
B.B.
Halfstep,
Yes test marketing will begin very soon. If I could write as well as B.B. or Hiveseeker I could do a guest blog on what it takes to get something from a crude concept to a marketable product. Even as simple as these targets are there were a lot problems to overcome.
B.B. You shouldn’t say when you taught. Because you’re still teaching me something everyday. Tie or not.
Speakski,
Glad to hear it. 🙂
B.B.
B.B.,
I don’t know what a realistic price point is, but I have no doubt there is value in the Codeuce spinner targets. After I punch enough holes in my little paper target, I turn my attention to things more durable. I have one Birchwood Casey spinner gallery and I love it. I have one field target that lets me reset it by shooting the larger paddle. I like them; they provide a durable target and a satisfying result when hit. The targets you tested are quite nice.
I hesitated but I do want to say a few words about our British cousins. I know they live by a different set of rules regarding firearms and airguns, but I didn’t realize how different. They are as concerned about their freedom to own and shoot airguns as Americans are about firearms. There are even a couple of organizations one can join that seem analogous to the NRA, except they are about airguns.
Aside from the legal issues, I find the British articles to be interesting in and of themselves. The first time I read about a permission I learned they are using the word as a noun, a place you have permission to shoot your airgun and (usually) do some hunting. I am including a link that includes 20 British magazine issues to sample. You can spot them easily because the thumbnail pictures are in full color. You can look at them on line, but I find downloading the PDF files to be the best for me. There are other file types, but I haven’t found them to be as good as the PDF files (perhaps I just don’t have the right reader for those). Anyway, you can scroll down from any magazine you open and see the downloadable files.
I find these magazines to be complimentary to your blog.
https://archive.org/search.php?query=airgun
Best to you,
~ken
B.B.,
A clarification:
BASA is the British Airgun Shooters Association and they are about airguns, including liability insurance and magazine.
BASC is the British Association for Shooting and Conservation. They are more inclusive and include firearms, however, they have a specific airgun membership as well.
~ken
B.B.
To heck with cutting grass, I want these thing to take off!
Wish they were made from stainless steel and you could just leave them outside all the time…..
They look great!
-Y
Yogi,
If I left them outside, I would be concerned that over time the bearings would be adversely affected by moisture.
Michael
B.B.,
Off-subject, but I just now happened upon the Pyramyd AIR page for the upcoming Umarex Strike Point. I immediately was drawn to its appearance. It looks like it means business! And they built in some sound suppression, very good for a multi-pump pneumatic. I also think the pump handle would be easy to grip and pinch-free.
But then I saw the trigger shape. UGH. I’m not even sure I could use a trigger that shape.
Which brings me to this question. How difficult might it be for a machinist to take that trigger and replicate it except with a straight, downward pointing profile?
/product/umarex-strike-point-pellet-multi-pump-air-pistol?m=4503#8779
Michael
Michael,
I see what you mean about the trigger. It must have a very long travel, to be positioned on an angle that far forward.
Given the price the trigger must be plastic. It doesn’t take a machinist — it takes someone skilled in working plastic.
My guess is the trigger has a lot of stage one pull, and when that’s taken up it’s probably angled a lot better.
B.B.
Those look great. I could fit them on my target box, 3/4 ply with a field Target or trap. What would be cool is a spin count meter, so you could play first to 100 spins or such.
Edw
That’s an awesome idea make it competitive, another reason to buy two!
I was hoping you’d see that!
BB
I e-mailed you a pick of four customized EX-airsoft pistols that are now being offered in .177 steel BB versions. Well I received them today and they actually still had the orange plastic barrel tips on them. Something missed in the conversion. I easily removed them with no damage because they are only required on Airsoft guns. Growing pains ! ?
Remember a while back I questioned why Airsoft companies did not offer their excellent reproductions, especially the wood stocked M1 Carbine and K98 in a BB or pellet version and you said they probably were not ready yet. Well they are now and entering the Airgun market with some fine looking custom pistols, at least for now, but I think they figured out how simple it can be. Looks like they just replaced the barrels and the mag dispensing tip for bb’s. Cant tell for sure not having the Airsoft version.
OK just looked, they do have dedicated double stacked bb mags with some very unique CO2 bottom access covers that slide off forward by lifting a catch on the ‘Bottom’ of the mag spring. Kinda reverse action of loading bb’s.
They are all customized versions and if you ever look through dedicated Airsoft sites they offer tons of modification parts. Umarex may have some competition ?
Bob M
Interesting news.
Hay GF1
There actually are more pistols available, I just settled for the ones designed with custom comps, hammers, grips, triggers, wide mag housing, cutouts and modified slides, and an extended M92.
I guess you could describe them as “Race Guns”
P/A does not have them, yet? I ran out of satellite time and can’t send a pic I have or open my e mail, for now.
Bob M
I will search it and see what comes up.
Yep race guns.
Thanks.