by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Beeman P1 air pistol.
This report covers:
- Lots of reports
- What is the Beeman P1?
- HW45
- Three calibers
- Good 1911 trainer
- Two power levels
- Adjustable sights
- Adjustable trigger
- All metal
- PTFE piston seals
- Overall evaluation
As I was packing up at the 2017 Texas airgun show a man stopped by my tables and showed interest in a BSA Airsporter I had for sale. He asked if I would consider a trade. He then showed me a Beeman P1 pistol in near-excellent condition. The only real detractor is someone had tried to mount a scope on it and they screwed a scope stop pin down into the top of the scope rail, leaving a mark. I already owned a P1, but my gun has been highly modified from the days of The Airgun Letter, and I welcomed this chance to test a stock one.
Back in 1996 I modified the trigger of my P1 and got an extremely light and crisp pull. Ever since then I have had to try to remember what the stock trigger felt like. Also, I have tuned my pistol, making it’s pretty far from the gun it once was. I like the P1 and have recommended it for years to shooters who are serious about air pistols that can shoot, but in all that time I have been talking about a stock gun that’s getting harder and harder to remember. With this trade I can rectify that!
Lots of reports
I have tested my P1 for this blog many, many times. First in 2005, then 2007, and then a complete test in 2011 and most recently another complete test in 2014. But all of those tests were with my own modified P1. Today I start testing this new one. It’s much older than mine, but I have no idea how many shots have been fired.
What is the Beeman P1?
A Beeman P1 is a single shot spring-piston air pistol that puts out a light .177 pellet at the mid to high 500 f.p.s. range. The specs say 600 f.p.s., but I have never seen that. I think 585 f.p.s. was the highest I saw before I tuned the gun. These days that may not sound like a big deal, but when it came out in 1983, not many spring pistols could match it. The BSA Scorpion may be the only one that could.
HW45
Weihrauch liked Beeman’s design so much they produced it as the HW45 along with making the P1 for Beeman. It used to sell for less than the P1, but today the prices are pretty equivalent. Outside the U.S. it sells for less, but importing one will wind up costing you more than it’s worth.
Three calibers
The P1 comes in .177, .20 and .22 calibers. The most popular caliber by far is .177. The other two calibers are generally much harder to find because the .177 has the velocity that shooters want.
The way it’s built the piston travels backward when the gun fires. That imparts a feeling of recoil that’s fairly realistic. Most spring-piston pistols recoil away from you, so this one is different.
The grip frame is a very close copy of a 1911 firearm. It’s so close that Colt grips will fit. But the P1 comes with checkered walnut grips that are as nice as the finest standard grips Colt ever put on their firearms.
The upper frame of the gun is massive! It looks like a 1911 on steroids. The top half of that upper frame pops up when the exposed hammer is thumbed back, allowing the shooter to pull the upper frame up and forward, rotating around the front of the lower frame as the cocking linkage pulls the piston forward and compresses the mainspring.
The upper frame rotates up and forward to cock the pistol. You can see one side of the twin cocking links that pull the piston forward.
Good 1911 trainer
The P1 weighs 2.5 lbs, which is close to the weight of a 1911 (2.44 lbs. with empty magazine). The grip feels like a 1911A1 that has the curved mainspring housing. The trigger is suspended from a pin, unlike the 1911 trigger, but the length to the trigger is very close to a 1911 (not an A1, whose trigger is much shorter).
It’s easier to get accustomed to the P1 than to a 1911 firearm because of the lower noise and recoil. Also, pellets are far less expensive than .45 ACP rounds, which makes the air pistol a great trainer. However, unless your 1911 is a good one, the air pistol may be more accurate — especially at close range. We will test it to see what a stock P1 can do, but all the ones I have shot in the past have been quite accurate.
Two power levels
The P1 is unique in having both a low and high power setting — depending on how far forward the upper frame is rotated forward. Stop at the first click and you have low power. The second click gives you high power. However, this feature isn’t as cool as it sounds. It’s not much harder to cock to high power because the geometry of the linkage changes as the upper part of the frame rotates forward. I do note that this test pistol seems to hesitate just after low power is reached, but with proper lubrication that will change. I know because my other pistol cocks to full power easily. In .22 caliber versions of the pistol there is just a single power level, though I have heard of shooters changing the caliber of their pistols by swapping barrels, so you might encounter a .22 with two levels.
Adjustable sights
The rear sight adjusts in both directions. The adjustments have detents, but the windage detents are soft and hard to feel.
The rear sight is adjustable in both directions.
Up front the sights is a low post that’s squared off at the top. It’s perfect for target shooting.
Adjustable trigger
The two-stage trigger adjusts for both the length of the first stage and the weight of the letoff. Again, unless you have a very nice 1911, the P1 trigger is probably better.
There is an ambidextrous safety lever on the both sides of the grip frame, but it is manual, as it should be. You can easily put it on and take it off with your trigger finger. And the P1 does not have that grip safety that disturbs many shooters of the 1911/A1.
All metal
The P1 is all metal on the outside, save the checkered walnut grip panels. It’s finished in what I assume is hydrostatic paint that’s tough and long-lasting. I have thousands of shots on my Huntington Beach 1995 P1 and have tested scopes, dot sights and wooden stocks with it. The gun still is in excellent cosmetic condition. This pistol I traded for is even older. It’s from San Rafael (1983-1989), though there is no telling how many shots are on it. The bottom line is — these pistols are built to last.
PTFE piston seals
The P1 piston seals are made from polytetrafluoroethylene or PTFE, of which Teflon is one well-known brand. That material is low friction and takes the shape of the compression chamber. In fact, the break-in procedure for a new P1 piston seal is to dry-fire the gun a couple times on high power. That squashes the seal out until it fills the compression chamber perfectly. I was given that procedure from Don Walker who used to work at Beeman as their maintenance tech.
Overall evaluation
In 2017 the Beeman P1 is an anomaly. It’s a solid all-metal air pistol with features that go beyond anything else. In fact, there is very little else that comes close to it. Sure, the pricetag is hefty, as it must be to pay for everything you get, but I can’t name another airgun that’s like it. This is an heirloom airgun that you will own for the rest of your life and then hand down to your offspring.
I’m really looking forward to testing this airgun!
BB and Fellow Airgunners
That’s an interesting story you tell on how you acquired your new-to-you Beeman P1/ HW45. I have two Weihrauch HW45’s with the ambidextrous target type handles that fit me like the proverbial glove. My first purchase was the Silver Star in .22cal, and I purchased a Black Star in .177cal, a couple of years later. I have since scoped both pistols with Weihrauch branded 2×20 scopes. Although the scopes were made in China for Weihrauch, the crosshairs are nice and thin, with bright, crisp optics. I appreciate the extra weight (10oz) they add to the front because it seems to help lessen the effect of recoil, as well as aid in cocking. Extra barrels are only $45.00 Cdn, and very easy to swap. I have since changed the Silver Star from a 22cal, to a .20cal, which seems to give me smaller groups at 1 inch, at 25 meters. I never use the lower power for the very reason you mentioned. They are extremely well made, and the only rattle I get is the cocking lever on both pistols. Have you experienced the same from your Beeman P1’s?
I’m always interested in more information about this fabulous air pistol. Like you say, it is expensive, but once you have it in your hands, and see what it is capable of, you will only sell it if you are in dire need of cash.
Ciao
Titus
Titus,
The rattle? I had forgotten about it, but yes, my first pistol has it. For some reason the second pistol that I’m now testing doesn’t. It’s tight!
Boy, what we forget! Thanks for a look at your airguns.
B.B.
My P-1 has been with me since the 90’s and there is no rattle to it at all.
It has been probably the best air arm I own on par with My RWS M-36. It has cycled tens of thousands of rounds in the more than a couple of decades I have owned it. It has had only one service at the former Beeman service center in Huntington Beach.
The trigger got so light, that I had to adjust MORE resistance in the trigger as it was becoming a bit dangerous. Now, I can feel the approach of the break point; that point had gone away, I suspect, because of the “polishing” of the trigger by use.
The one thing I have always done is compress the over lever slightly before pulling back the “hammer” which is the catch release. It minimizes wear and keeps the over lever from bounding about.
I’ve had a problem with the P-1 due to my eyesight. I finally had to mount up an UTG red/green dot sight and it was a bit of a struggle to get it on the ramp, but all is great now.
This is an air pistol that will be passed on to my son, a major in the US Army, as I doubt that I can wear it out in my life time. Mr. Gaylord is correct, this is a legacy piece that, with care, will just go on and on and on!
Titus
Hit me up on my email when you get a chance.
Coduece
Coduece
I recently installed a program called Mackeeper, which for whatever reason has taken over my email account. I have to get in touch with my internet provider to find out why I can’t receive, or send emails. When this problem has been resolved, I would be more then happy to correspond. I would also need your email address as well.
Ciao
Titus
Titus,
Ok here it is, and I look forward to hearing from you. And are you a south paw I noticed you mentioned the Wiehrauch had an Ambi grip? Cisleyag1@gmail.com
Coduece
Thanks for your email address. I will send you a brief correspondence as soon as I’m up and running again. Yes, I do shoot left handed, but only from necessity. I developed a cyst in my right eye which caused me to learn to aim, and shoot left handed. Fortunately, a good buddy who is a natural southpaw was patient enough to help me improve my technique. That was about 5 years ago, If memory serves me well. I never like to dwell on negative things. It is what it is, and I could have either quit, or change my handedness. I love the sport of airguns too much to simply give up, and fortunately all my right handed airguns can be shot left handed without modification. I merely had to train my shooting muscles to operate differently. For some reason, learning to shoot a pistol left handed seemed more difficult then a rifle. Would you happen to be a lefty, either natural, or by circumstance?
All the best.
Ciao
Titus
Titus
1″ at 25 meters is pretty darn good. Just got to ask. Was that bench rested?
Gunfun1
I failed to add that 1 inch would be my best shooting with H+N FTT pellets at 11.42gr in .20 cal. To be truthful, what I should have said was 1-2 in groups at 25 meters. Once you understand how the pistol likes tone held, along with using an accurate pellet, you will be amazed at the accuracy of the P1/HW45. Using our patio table as a sturdy base, I use a large rolled up bath towel to rest my forearms on while holding the pistol steady with both hands. The trigger is amazing, with a positive 2nd stage that I have had no need to adjust. It showed up at my house set up from the factory at 1.3lbs. I have never tried a HW45 with the original pistol grips as shown on BB’s Beeman P1. Maybe I’ll have to get a third HW45 that is similar to BB’s. Just chuckin’ your shoulder honey,( wife).
Ciao
Titus
Titus
Sounds like the typical Weirauch air gun to me. Well worth the money in other words.
GF1,
I seriously looked at this as my first air gun when getting back into air gunning.
On the 2400KT and the PCP conversion,.. I am striking out on conversion kits. The basic custom kit is 167.00, for me, as I chose, as listed. Please point me in the right direction on stock options, valve options, PCP conversion options if you can. E mail direct if that suits you better. The kit as is, suits me. PCP conversion and a better valve would be my only other interest.
(Feel free HiveSeeker to jump in too). I still need to look more and read BB’s report that HiveSeeker linked, but so far I am not turning up much.
HiveSeeker’s latest model, converted to PCP, maybe a better valve,…. would be the end goal.
Chris
You should remember the 2240 with the hi-pac conversion I had. Reb was commenting then. Buldawg had a couple too.
Mine was with a Disco barrel and breech and the 1399 stock. The valve was the factory valve. I used the transfer port orafice from the Discovery as well.
Changing the transfer port orafice will probably change velocity more than a different valve. Plus adding a heavier striker spring will help. Just relate it to your .25 Marauder. All the same principal.
You didn’t go to a bigger valve in your .25 Marauder did you? From what I remember that answer would be no.
GF1,
No different valve on the M-rod. And yes, I do remember the 2240 Hi-Pac conversions but have no notes and such. The options seem endless. Maybe I should have you put together a parts list (with sources) and I could go from that? 😉 The Crosman kit would be the base. As (you) would build it, so to speak.
I have a bunch of sites saved, but none seem to deal with this topic that I have seen thus far. Like I said, I (just) started seriously looking into it. I plan to do more looking around this weekend.
I do have that UTG 6 position stock, but would need a tube. It would seem that would be better for a scoped carbine, but maybe not. Maybe the Crosman stock would be better. I not know.
Any help to point me in the right direction and get me started would be appreciated. You can pretty much see what end direction I am heading,.. I think.
Chris
Get a 2240. Get a Crosman steel breech. Order a Maximus barrel from Crosman.
Then figure out what stock you want on it.
Here is a link to the hi-pac conversion kit. Just click the website (home) button to see more of their products.
http://www.buyhipac.com/hipac-kits-extensions.html
Don’t use this spring or seal. Keep the factory striker spring and Co2 seal in the factory valve. And you only need to fill to around 1500 psi for about 15-20 shots if you use their smaller legnth tube.
Save the modding with a heavier striker spring and and bigger inside transfer port diameter for later.
And I suggest the .177 Maximus barrel over the .22 for this paticular conversion. That way you will get some respectable velocity. Physics will only allow a valve to flow so much.
I was going to say this above and forgot. You can put a bigger valve in the gun. But it will only pick up so much. Even with a bigger orifice. The barrel and pellet play a part too.
First start out with a basic package. Get use to it then mod it up more. The 2240’s are definitely a modders gun.
GF1,
Notes made and site saved. I will look into this more over the weekend. I like the Maximus barrel idea and was going to ask. Spring and port would be now item, but I will work with what you gave me first. No doubt, there will be more questions. .177 over the .22 was a bit of a surprise. HiveSeeker’s numbers seemed pretty good.
The Maximus regulator is still high on the list and notes saved. That will be a weekend item too.
Mucho Thanks on a good start,… Chris
Chris
For sure holler. I done to much with these guns.
I did them in .22 and .177 Discovery barrels and other barrels Crosman has. I have about 8 different barrels that will work on this type gun.
You are going to be absalutly surprised how accurate they are.
Definitely you need to get one.
You can put a 2240 with a Crosman steel breech and Maximus barrel and 1399 stock for around $125. Then of course the cost of the Hi-pac conversion.
Chis,
From reading you posts it seems like you like to tinker but have you looked at the Crosman 1701p?
It makes a dandy little carbine with a 1399 stock. Especially if you can find a use one. It come with an LW barrel and a decent trigger group. Here is a link to BB’s blog on it.
/blog//?s=Crosman+silhouette&btnGo=
And to PA’s sale page
/product/crosman-silhouette-pcp-air-pistol?m=2469
Jim
GF1,
Any thoughts on how well all those parts ( minus the hipac, of course) would perform as a co2 gun ?
Halfstep
I have had many 1322/77’s and 2240’s on Co2 through out the years.
I had the Discovery and steel breech on them with the 1399 stock. Also shot them with dot sights, scopes and even the See All Sight.
All very accurate guns and all could dispatch a starling at 50 yards. Matter of fact that’s what I used them for. Oh and pretty quiet with the longer Discovery barrel.
Like I mentioned I have 8 different legnth and caliber barrels that are all shorter than a Discovery barrel. The Discovery barrel was quieter than the others and performed better.
Hope that helps.
Chris
And this should read different.
“Don’t use this spring or seal. Keep the factory striker spring and Co2 seal in the factory valve.”
Should say.
Don’t use this spring or seal. Keep the factory striker spring and Co2 seal (and) the factory valve.
GF1,
You and Chris ran out of room above so I hope you don’t mind me adding my question here.
What would be the advantage of starting with a 2240 instead of a 2400KT? A basic 2400KT with an 18″ barrel configures for around $90 and would already have the steel breach and, maybe, a slightly better trigger.
Thanks,
Jim
Jim
Probably only advantage would be the longer Maximus barrel.
The Maximus wasn’t around yet when I had my 2240. But I tryed different barrels on it and the longer Discovery barrel shot a higher velocity than the short we barrels plus was more accurate. Even more accurate than the Lothar Walther barrels I have.
So that’s why I said a 2240 and Maximus barrel. I guess one could buy the 2400 and also buy a Maximus barrel and swap out barrels for a little cheaper price than what I said.
But if it was me doing it. I would definitely have the longer Maximus barrel. Especially if I was converting to HPA.
Jim,
Yes, I do like to tinker. I was surprised at GF1’s recommendation of the Maximus barrel. That is a far cry from a 14.6″ L/W barrel as it is approx. 23″ exposed. But, if he says it’s better for PCP, then I will have to go with GF1’s opinion.
Jim,
The 1701p is a bit more than I care to invest in a project gun. The 2240KT sounds like a good start point.
Titus Groan,
I have never heard the expression, ” Just chuckin’ your shoulder, honey.” Is that a local way of saying, ” Just pullin’ your leg.” or ” I’m just kiddin’ “?
BB,
I wish I could find room for this pistol at RidgeRunner’s Home For Wayward Airguns. The truth is there is room, but unfortunately the finances are unavailable right now. This pistol has been on my short list for a long time.
B.B.,
Excellent topic for a report or three (or four)!
The late Roger Ebert once wrote of Casablanca that it is THE movie. The P1/HW45 is THE air pistol. Put another way, if one were to look up “Classic Air Pistol” in an encyclopedia, the P1/HW45 would be the first example pictured.
The first air gun that I bought as an adult and which pulled me into airgunning was a Beeman Webley Hurricane I picked up in a pawn shop. But not long afterward I bought an HW45. That was the first time I really experienced an airgun with a kick. They really let you know you just shot a pistol! I’ve yet to shoot a CO2 pistol that can match my HW45 for recoil. But it’s a quick, firm snap, much faster, it seems to me, than a CO2 pistol’s blowback.
After I had my HW45 for a year or so, I picked up a Beeman shoulder stock for it, although I left it installed only briefly as the sights seemed a little too close that way. A red dot or small scope would probably be perfect, however.
I eagerly await the next installment on this classic.
Michael
Michael,
Yes! The speed of the recoil. I believe that it’s faster than the recoil of a firearm, though with one that recoils heavily, like a .357 and up, the intensity soon overshadows the speed.
B.B.
B.B.,
While the P1 is a single-shot, might it’s muzzle rise still be beneficial for training? (Probably a stupid question, but remember that I am the firearm neophyte around here :^) It seems to me that if quick sight re-alignment after a shot is the point, the second shot is not entirely necessary for practice. Shoot and focus on follow-through.
More and more I read of the wrist-ripping characteristics of the .357 magnum. But the other day I read an online article saying that the ol’ .44 Special is regaining popularity among “wheelgunners.” It argued that it offers lower risk of over penetration or ending up in the next county, comparatively low recoil (especially if it’s used in a large frame and long barrel .44 magnum), but the .44spc satisfies the desire some shooters have for a really big bullet. What was old is new again.
Michael
Michael,
The P1 is a great air pistol to train with. The single shot feature is no drawback, as long as you want to shoot for accuracy and not just look cool while shooting.
The .44 Special is to the .44 Magnum as the .38 Special is to the .357 Magnum. Loaded right, the .44 Special can be very pleasant to shoot. I shot a full-house .44 Magnum a few weeks back and, because it was an old Ruger flattop with the plow handle grip, the recoil was manageable. I’m not saying I enjoyed it, but I could live with it. And .44 Specials in that revolver were pussycat loads.
B.B.
BB,
In Paul Capello’s video review on the PA site, he shows a gun that has fiber optnoxious sights. You don’t describe them as such on your gun and your photos, as well as PA’s photos, display plain black blade and post. Furthermore, the question of whether current guns are equipped with fiber is asked in the Q&A section on PA’s listing but not conclusively answered. So, inquiring minds want to know, ” Will a new gun have plain black sights? “
Halfstep,
I asked Pyramyd AIR to check this. Tyler Patner checked a box and the current P1 does have a black sight like the pictures show. He thought there might have been a period when Weihrauch was installing fiberoptics, but the box he examined is a new pistol and it’s black.
B.B.
BB,
That’s great news. Thanks.
Black sights maybe standard on the P1. My HW45, purchased through Mundilar in spring 2016, has fiberoptic sights. They are not my favorite; but with adequate lighting, accurate shooting is possible using the fiber frames.
Jumpin,
Thanks for that.
Since you have the fiber sights, let me ask you something. When the top of the rear sight ( the metal support for the fiber element) is aligned with the top of the front blade, ( again, I’m talking about the frame around the fiber itself ) do the 3 round dots presented by the fiber tubes line up in a straight line or is the front one above or below the rear two. Also, would you say that the dots appear as the same size when the gun is at arms length (firing position) or do the rear ones seem to be larger or smaller than the front. I ask because ,to me, the least acceptable of this type sight is one where the dots are not lined up on a common centerline when the tops of the sights are aligned. If any part of the front dot is cut off, that throws me off, too. If the dots all line up at the same time that the tops of the sights are lined up, then I think I would find it to be every bit as user friendly as regular sights. Problem is, I’ve never seen one of those on any of my guns, whether they be hand guns or long guns. I have been assuming it was because my guns don’t cost much compared to the gun that you have, so I’m curious to learn about yours.
Here is a phone pic of the front sight. Since I’m tech challenged, I’ll put rear sight in another reply.
The rear sight. Notice the distance from the fiber to the top of the frame is definitely less in the rear. Also, rear fiber is clearly smaller than the front. At arm’s length, they are perceived as close to the same size. Anyway, when viewed together shooting and focused on the front sight, the rear frame is fuzzy (think, ghost ring). Someone more knowledgable about sight picture than I might chime in; but when I shoot, I do not “see” or focus on the rear sight right above the fiber. Rather I relate the focused front sight to the entire fuzzy edge of the rear sight. At arm’s length, leveling the front fiber frame with the rear fuzzy edge, the dots appear approximately level – approaching each other at the tangent points
I do not, however, ever shoot using the fiber sights. I only choose to shoot/plink in light sufficient to see the front fiber frame. Shooting with the fiber dots may be more useful in other types of arms and situations. Someone training with this pistol for another arm might find the dots useful, but I would prefer only metal sights.
No part of the dots are cut-off when shooting. Gaps exist between the front frame sides and the sides of the rear leaf opening- easily perceived when shooting so you can center both directions.
Hope this addresses your questions.
OD of rear fiber is 0.036″. OD of front fiber is 0.059″. A little trig will give you the perceived size at arm’s length.
Jumpin,
My last Trig class was 44 years ago, so I can’t rely on that ! 🙂 Your description and photos, however, have told me everything I need to know. I could use these sights, I’m sure. The dots would line up in a way that would not distract me from the sight picture that I would be trying to achieve, which would be all the top edges level ( and the rear WOULD be fuzzier ) and the front post centered in the rear. ( I, too, prefer just black sights) On my cheapo guns this cuts the front dot almost in half and I find myself raising the barrel to get the dots lined up because it just looks wrong. Anyone else find themselves doing this?
After rereading my post( AFTER it was already posted and too late to change) I thought ,” He’s never gonna make enough sense out of that to tell me what I’m lookin’ for “, but you did, so you’ve got some mad cognitive skills there. The pics were above and beyond ,so really, thank you very much for taking the time.
BB
So then does that mean the velocity bug bit you back when you got your P1 since they were making more than other pistols of the time? 😉
GF1,
I wanted one because of the build quality, but I must admit the velocity did attract me as well.
B.B.
BB
Build quality and the right velocity is definitely at the top of the list for me.
Sounds like it would be a nice pistol to have.
B.B.
Why Thank You ever so much. I’ve been waiting a long long time for this report! Can’t wait to see velocity, handling, hold sensitivity and accuracy! I’ve always admired the “looks” and build (materials of this gun). I’ve only seen one once in these parts. That was at a gun show (firearms). It was overpriced.
Doc
B.B.,
If I read correctly, You said in .22 cal there is only one power level. I checked PA’s site and it does list .22 cal with two power levels (360 & 460 fps). So maybe they make them now with two power levels? Strange that on low level all three cals are about the same FPS. Since the bigger .20 & .22 ammo would weight more, I take it they are more efficient (less friction) at that lower level?
Doc
Doc,
I quoted the Blue Book on that one. Maybe they are made in two power levels now.
B.B.
BB,
Since these are popular and well built, are they common in the used market and are they generally priced far enough below new one’s to be a choice over a new one that is warranted ? Did you gain any insight into why your particular one was for sale (trade) and did you feel you got a better trade ( assuming you did, of course) because of the scope stop screw blemish?
Halfstep,
The P1 is rebuildable, so there is little risk when buying used. Mine came with a new mainspring that the trader had no idea about. It 2as a gun he got in a trade and didn’t want. If I find the velocity low I will probably overhaul it.
B.B.
BB,
Just so I’m clear, you think a used gun is a better value provided one is handy enough to rebuild it ,if need be? What about the availability as used?
Halfstep,
They are common enough. And yes, they are very rebuildable, if you know how.
They are seldom cheap though. They usually fetch 2/3 the new price. That’s what my trade was.
B.B.
BB,
I was afraid you would say that.
BB,
I’m very interested in hold sensitivity. Does one need to use something equivalent to an artillery hold with a spring powered pistol? Or is the pellet out of the barrel before the recoil? Or what?
Dennis
Dennis,
I had the same question floating around in my head. I don’t know if you’ve read BB’s report about how to fire a 1911 accurately, but I’d like to know if that hold works or not. It is sort of an artillery hold come to think of it.
Thanks for the comment, Halfstep. I don’t know anything about either of these guns, but they seem entirely different. And I would expect the firing cycles to be very different. I haven’t found the report you refer to.
Dennis,
Read this:
/blog/2011/05/beeman-p1hw-45-air-pistol-part-3/
B.B.
Thanks, BB.
So I see how this makes for a consistent hold with the trigger hand, and with minimal interference with the ‘natural’ recoil of the gun. I presume that the other hand is not touching the gun at all? So, as in the artillery hold, this allows the gun to go through its own, repeatable recoil. Interesting.
I appreciate the reply.
Dennis
BB,
I can’t believe that I didn’t remember that you discussed the technique for the 1911 in a report about the P1. Well, I guess I was more focused on the 1911 aspect than the P1 report, because I remember the whole story about the Colonel and how he did it. I have a 1911 on a government frame that has been set up for Bullseye competition, (I’ve never competed, myself) and I know that I have never shot anywhere near it’s potential.
B.B. – I have an HW75 (aka a Beeman P2); but clearly sharing a lot of parts. I have a Red Dot on mine, but it drove me up a wall until I discovered the scope grooves were 14 mm, not 11mm. Unless my pistol is unusual, do all P1s, P2s, HW45s, and HW75s have 14mm scope grooves? If so, it doesn’t seem like this is public knowledge. As you can imagine, on most style mounts, a sight or scope would not be centered on the barrel. Windage could be adjusted for one distance, but…. Can you comment on this?
Ditto on HW 45. Takes larger openings that some mounts have. I had read about the pistol groove size, but what I did not find was maximum opening from mount sellers. Took a couple of red dots before I found one what would open wide enough. Now I’m back to iron (fiber) sights so its no problem.
Derek,
The 11m,m scope dovetail is a misnomer. It ranges fro0m 9.5 to 14.5 throughout the industry with no standardization. And all HW pistols are the same.
B.B.
B.B. Even the HW40? Honestly, I’m shocked at your reply! Of all the precision companies, HW can certainly machine a part to closer than .118″ accuracy (3mm – or really half that). Even you have previously implied in earlier blogs that there may have been a 14 mm groove spacing standard many year ago. Even BKL makes one product to accommodate 14mm groove spacing. Other than BKL, most mounts only adjust from one side making it nearly impossible to center any aftermarket sight side to side on these pistols! At a minimum, advertising and reviews for the P1, P2, HW45, and HW75 need to acknowledge the wider than normal groove spacing on these pistols, and that extra care needs to be applied to the mounting of auxiliary/aftermarket sights for long range windage adjustments. Sorry If I’ve offended; but let me say I did buy a Beeman R7 on your advice (fabulous!!). Another topic for you to blog about is the difference between 12 FPE and FAC power levels. From my point of view, having shot and/or owned several magnum air rifles, there’s a lot to say about low powered guns (and 12 FPE isn’t really low powered (except for serious hunting)). Wish my latest Cable provider offered the Pursuit channel – I miss the American Airgunner show!!
Dwerek,
First, these pistols are not designed to hold scopes. They have good adjustable sights and are intended to be used that way. They will accept a scope, but it is a compromise at best. They certainly are not designed for it.
Next, there is no industry standard. Everyone does as they please, and the mount makers try to keep up.
I concur that the description should make mention of a wider than normal scope rail, but the number of buyers looking for that feature must be very low, so the trigger hasn’t been pulled.
On the bright side, it’s an opportunity for someone, but who knows how large the group that wants a scoped air pistol really is? If it isn’t thousands, I doubt it will receive attention.
B.B.
Does anyone else have a P1 in .20 and do the pellets fit really loosely when seated? Mine actually drop into the barrel a little instead of being flush and snug. My .177 P1 is very snug, just as I would expect a P1 to be. At some point I’ll cave and get a .22 to round things out but I’m a bit ADD when it comes to projects and I’m running out of places to hide them from my wife.
dacutus,
Welcome to the blog.
Hide the guns in the last place.
B.B.
My P1 is a .20 cal and have tried many pellets. It likes the JSB Exact .20, 13.7 grain and it is a very consistantly sized, accurate pellet. It is also superbly accurate in my R9. It has to be pushed into the breech as it has a 5.1mm head diameter. HN Field Target Trophy, 11.4 grain would be a second choice, but has a smaller head diameter and drops into the breech.
Wheels,
Welcome to the blog!
B.B.
If you know and like springers (a whole subject of its own), and If you want a high quality, accurate and simple spring air pistol, consider the P1. I found mine used on craigslist for $225. I have since seen better examples in the $200-$250 price range. Good Luck, John
Mine is horribly hopelessly inaccurate, tried everything, another spring, seal, plastic spring guide, cleaning barrel, 22 barrel and .177 just the same. And before you say anything, I tried countless holds. I hate it.
Pacala,
Sorry to hear that. Are you interested in doing something about it, or is it a bitter pill?
B.B.
If you have any ideas, BB you are most welcome. This is a .177 HW45 I bought used, came with extra .22 and .20 barrels. Never tried the .20.
Kicks like a mule, the drop in kit from Tinbum made no difference. Also tried a new aftermarket spring and new piston seal, the old ones looked fine.
Thank you!
Pacala,
I don’t know what to say. The pistol isn’t supposed to be like that, so I wouldn’t know where to begin to advise you. The “kicks like a mule” remark really has me stumped, because the P1’s recoil is light. IUt’s quick, but very light — not as heavy as a .22 long rifle in a light pistol.
B.B.
Pacala,
Have you dry fired it at least twice? That was supposed to fully form the seal of the P1. What are the chances of excess oil in the chamber causing it to detonate? What is the heaviest pellet you have tried in it?
Siraniko
I have a couple of questions for the experts here if you all don’t mind. Long time shooter but a complete novice to air guns. I recently picked up a used .177 P1 (I don’t think it has ever been fired) and am a bit confused on a couple of points. First, it doesn’t seem to have low and high power cocking. Only high power. I thought the 177s had both. I fired it for the first time today, about 25 rounds and it seemed to “smoke” a bit. Do I have to dry fire it a couple of times like mentioned above? Also, does the air chamber require lubrication? The manual says no but I have read where others say to lube it. I think that’s my limit on questions for one day!
bullethead,
Welcome to the blog.
The P1 doesn’t need much lubrication. If it is smoking as you say, there is plenty of oil in there.
Yes, dry-fire it twice. That will squash the PTFE piston seal out to conform to the compression chamber.
Now, as for the lack of two cocking levels, you may have a gun that was originally a .22. They came with a single cocking notch, as you can read in the Blue Book of Airguns. If someone replaced the barrel, you would have a .177 with a single cocking stage. That’s the reverse of someone with a .22 that has two cocking levels.
B.B.
Pacala,
I have now had some time to think about your gun’s problems.I think the barrel could be at the heart of it.You got the gun with three barrels, which tells me the former owner had intentions of changing calibers. Perhaps he did and did not install the current barrel correctly?
Perhaps he installed the current barrel incorrectly. Sometimes over-zealous airgunners “fix” problems that don’t exist. They destroy the inherent soundness of the design with their simple fixes. For example, was the current barrel installed correctly? Or is it off a bit and that is causing the problems you mentioned?
Just a thought.
B.B.
Hi Pacala, Do you have a lot of time in with spring guns? Spring time, that is? 🙂
Tnx, John
Thanks B.B. The gun is stamped 117, but who knows what happened before I got it. I doubt the gun has ever been fired, although I got it without a box or paperwork. The high power level is OK with me. With the cocking as it is, it is not a gun for kids. One has to develop a technique for sure. I will clean the barrel before my next range trip to see if it decreases the smoke, which isn’t much anyway. The only pellets I have are RWS 8.2 but will try others for accuracy (10 meters) before I buy a bunch.
Bullethead,
I will be testing my new/old P1 this week. Crosman Premier lights used to be wonderful in a P1. And, at 10 meters, both RWS R10s and H&N Finale Match pellets worked very well.
B.B.
Hi Tom, I was wondering if you could use any help testing? I could shoot some groups with my old P1, say at 10 meters with 7.56g H&N Finale match pistol and 7.9g Crosman Hollow points? Then post some pictures for comparison? Just a thought. Or maybe you have a better idea? Let me know. Id’e be happy to help.
P.S. H&N Finale match pellets have always proved to be the superior pellet in all of my .177’s at 25 yards and under. So much so that I bought 20,000 of them! 4 boxes of 10 500 pellet tins for $100 through Craigs list.
Tnx, John
I just received my new .22 caliber Beeman P1 from pyramydair this morning
Thanks for the great tip about dry firing in order to squash the seal…holy cow was there alot of smoke after shooting this brand new air pistol, my living room smells great!
It is louder than I expected, but I think that’s a good thing.
I have a reasonable collection of about fifty air pistols, mostly Co2 powered BB and pellet replicas, and a few spring piston break barrels like the Browning buckmark URX, and a couple pneumatic air Beeman P17’s, but nothing quite like this Beeman P1.
My prized possessions are now my Hawthorne Montgomery Ward M-150 .22 caliber Co2 pistol and this Beeman P1!
Spinoza,
You are on Part 1 of the report and I have already done 4 more parts:
/blog/2017/11/the-beeman-p1-air-pistol-part-5/
Glad the trick helped you!
B.B.
Thanks BB!
I read all 5 parts before buying the P1, but I wanted to thank you for the dry firing tip where you mentioned it 🙂
Your review had alot to do with me deciding that I couldn’t live without this pistol!
Many thanks & I look forward to your next articles.
-spinoza
Spinoza,
Good! I didn’t want you to miss anything. I plan to test the velocity of the re-lubricated gun next week.
B.B.
Very nice… I really like your blog. Very useful information.