by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Sig M17 ProForce airsoft pistol.
This report covers:
- The test
- Sig 0.20 gram BBs
- TSD 0.20-gram BBs
- Move to heavier BBs
- Valken Accelerate 0.25-gram BBs
- Air Venturi CQBBs 0.25-gram
- TSD Bio 180 0.26-gram BBs
- The Infinity Bio 0.25-gram BB
- Hop-Up
- 10 Infinity Bio BBs
- Summary
You’re gonna get your money’s worth today! Today I start testing the accuracy of the new Sig Sauer M17 ProForce airsoft pistol.
The test
I shot off a rest at 10 meters. The pistol was rested directly on the sandbag. That seemed to work well and I am pleased with the results. I shot different numbers of BBs with different aim points, so I will describe what I did for each target as I go.
Sig 0.20 gram BBs
I started the test with the sample 0.20 gram BBs Sig sent with the pistol. I thought they are too light for CO2, and the velocity test in Part 2 seemed to confirm that, but Sig sent them so let’s see what they do.
I used a 6 o-clock hold for the first two shots that landed very low on the target. I marked them 1 and 2 for you. Then I switched to holding the top of the front sight at the top of the bull. I didn’t mark the first target with the aim points, so I’m telling you that shots 3 through 10 were aimed at the top of the bull. Therefore we can’t measure all 10 shots, because two aim points were used. The last 8 BBs landed in 2.452 inches at 10 meters.
The first two Sig BBs (6 o-clock hold) landed low and right and I marked them. The next 8 (in the bull) were more-or-less level and slightly right of center.
TSD 0.20-gram BBs
Remember that TSD 0.20-gram BBs are on the light side. With the aim point at the top of the bull they hit high and right. Only 8 are on the target paper, including one way at the top. Those 8 are in 3.179-inches at 10 meters.
TSD Tactical 0.20-gram BBs hit high, relative to the aim point. Eight BBs are in 3.179-inches between centers.
Move to heavier BBs
Okay, I don’t like what I’m seeing so far. I think the CO2 is driving those 0.20-gram BBs too fast. So the next BB weighed 0.25-grams. That would slow things down. I also loaded just 5 BBs for the next target.
Valken Accelerate 0.25-gram BBs
The M17 put 5 Valken Accelerate 0.25-gram BBs into 2.421-inches at 10 meters. That’s more like it! This airsoft gun is not made for shooting at targets; it’s a skirmishing weapon. But you don’t learn about its performance by shooting at life-sized silhouettes!
Five Valken Accelerate 0.25-gram BBs went into 2.421-inches at 10 meters. These BBs are pure white. The bottle is gray to keep them safe from UV rays. They are also biodegradable, as more than half the airsoft BBs seem to be these days.
Now, I know the M17 can shoot. Let’s look at several more of the heavier BBs. Because the BBs are landing so far below the aim point I will load 6 instead of 5. If one should happen to hit higher, my first shot will clue me and I can change the aim point.
Air Venturi CQBBs 0.25-gram
Next up are six 0.25-gram Air Venturi CQBBs. These are also biodegradable. Six of them went into 3.79-inches at 10 meters, so they are probably not right for the M17.
Six Air Venturi 0.25-gram CQBBs went into 3.79-inches at 10 meters.
TSD Bio 180 0.26-gram BBs
Next up are six TSD 0.26-gram biodegradable BBs. These also went below the aim point, but they did center on the bull. This is the first BB to do that.
The group measures 2.519-inches between centers for six shots, plus it’s the first group to be centered, left and right. Given the imprecise aim point that’s not bad! This is a BB to test further.
Six TSD 0.26-gram Bio 180 BBs went into 2.519-inches at 10 meters. This is the first group that is centered, left and right.
The Infinity Bio 0.25-gram BB
This is the last BB I shot. The Infinity Bio 0.25-gram BB not only went higher on the target; it’s also well centered. This looks promising! Six BBs are in 2.573-inches at 10 meters, with the last five of them in just 1.477-inches! Guys — THIS is a group! This is what I have been hoping for. This M17 is a tackdriver, because I am still guesstimating my hold at the top of the bull. Time for the Hop-Up!
The lower left hole was the first shot. Then the M17 pounded 5 Infinity Bio 0.25-gram BBs into the bull! Six shots in 2.573-inches at 10 meters, with the last five in just 1.477-inches! This is the BB!
Hop-Up
Hop-Up is a generic term for the mechanism that puts a backspin on the BB as it leaves the barrel. That backspin is what makes it fly straight and level farther than gravity should permit.
I have two experiences with Hop-Up. In cheap airsoft pistols you use Hop Up to get the BBs to fly straight. If you don’t they will curve to one side or the other, like a baseball.
In more expensive Automatic Electric Guns (AEG) and in spring-piston sniper guns, Hop-Up makes the BBs fly level longer. It’s how you get the distance.
I had no idea of how the Hop-Up in this M17 pistol worked, except the directions were stamped right on the adjustment. Let’s look.
The Hop-Up adjustment is under the barrel. Rack the slide back to see it. The instructions are stamped on it. Turn it in that direction to make the BB go up.
I adjusted it clockwise as far as it would go, because I had been aiming high and the BBs were landing low. It moved less than half a turn.
10 Infinity Bio BBs
I then shot a group of 10 Infinity Bio BBs, hoping to show you a one-inch group. This time I used a 6 o-clock hold that’s far more precise than guessing where the top of the bull is. The first BB hit at 4 o-clock in the 9-ring and I thought I was in for a ride.
But alas, the other BBs went up high. I had adjusted up too far. And also I guess I was getting tired because my group opened up to 4.279-inches between centers. Phooey! Of course the last 9 BBs are in 2.844-inches, but that’s still pretty large.
Ten Infinity BBs are in 4.279-inches at the top of the target. Yes, all 10 are on the paper, and the 9 at the top are in 2.844-inches.
Summary
This M17 can shoot — and I mean REALLY shoot! The Hop-Up is incredibly precise and I wasn’t anticipating that. I just horsed it around when it wanted some finesse.
The M17 definitely shoots best with 0.25 and 0.26-gram BBs when it’s running on CO2. When I switch to green gas I’ll bet the 0.20-gram BBs will be best.
The sights are not adjustable, but remember what this is. It’s a skirmishing sidearm for shooting at large targets. Today I’m just learning what it likes and how it performs. The sights work perfectly for the purpose this gun was intended.
I think you see where this is going. I have to test this pistol again on CO2, but next time I know which BBs to try and which to avoid. We are gonna have us some fun, guys!
BB,
Not too bad I guess, but not my cup of tea.
I went back to the report on the pellet shooter and you had better luck shooting unsupported two handed. Will this one do better shooting two handed also?
Rk,
I thought about that as well. Maybe next time when I get the Hop-Up adjusted and find the one best BB I could try it.
B.B.
B.B.,
I’m “late to the party” on this report; but your initial report on this gun led me to get an inexpensive airsoft gun to experiment with in the backyard. Accuracy is good at 10 feet, but drops off rapidly after 20 feet. Still, for $25, it is a lot of fun. =>
Thanks again, and take care,
dave
P.S. For anyone unfamiliar with it, this Umarex Colt M1911 A1 is available at PyamydAir here:
/product/colt-1911-spring-airsoft-pistol-kit-w-holster-and-glasses?m=4233
I like the bio-degradable airsoft BBs as I don’t have to clean them up. =D
B.B.
This is a combat weapons trainer. No rested hand holds! What are you training for? It’s not a target gun.
I expect one will need to send several rounds down range quickly, and the rounds will need to be in the kill zone.
Isn’t this where reflexive trigger control and weapon hold and stance become important? I have learned that
rapid firing a revolver, the Gamo you recommended, and keeping the pellets in the black is no simple thing.
It takes practice.
I understand you using a single action pistol, which should give the average shooter a tactical advantage over a wheel gun, at close ranges.But is this really true? I suspect you are pretty handy with one of those too!. How about a side to side comparison of the pros and cons of training at home with the available airguns on the market? Once again, nice shooting sir.
Rob
Rob,
You are absolutely right. Of course I was just testing the pistol this time — not BB. But all of this — and there is now a lot — it leading up to realistic training with airguns.
I was out with three 9mm pistols last Friday and I’m here to tell you that hitting even 6-inch steel plates with them at 15 yards takes practice.
B.B.
BB
But that’s what we’re here to do.
I bet when the day was done you was hitting those 6″ targets with one eye closed. Hey at least I didn’t say with both eye’s closed. 😉
B.B.,
I can not speak to pistol firearm practice,…. but,… if you WERE to do a video with the air soft version,…. maybe some cheap aluminum pie tins positioned left, right, high, low,… etc.? You would have (sound effect) and,.. also given the grouping today,… a 8″ pie tin might be more conducive to rapid, off-rest shooting practice. Maybe?
Chris
B.B.,
Also no Formal Pistol Target Shooters position/stance. We need a video on this one of B.B.! Start in the base athletic position (bent knees [Squats help]) also shoulder-hip rolls to the right and rolls to the left!
shootski
Shootski,
So,… we are expecting to see a video of B.B. doing a “squat”-ish style position, followed by some dance-like, “shoulder-hip” movements,…. followed by a hit the ground? and “roll to the left” action?
What ya’ trying to do?,…. get B.B to break something or throw something out? I kind of prefer B.B. to be in tact myself! 😉
🙂 Chris
Chris USA,
Heck YES!
MOVEMENT=SURVIVAL in gun battles!
Knowing how to fall is a key ingredient to aging gracefully…see the problems James Earl Carter Jr. has had just this month!
LOL! B.B. will have a Stunt Double!
shootski
Shootski,
I am sure that I could get my butt in gear,… if needed. You are right. There are things that can be done to prevent more serious injuries as one ages. Staying fit-ish probably being one of the best starts. More = better. AARP has some good tips in their monthly magazine from time to time. Good for other stuff as well. More than worth the cost for aging adults.
Perhaps?,… B.B. can “borrow” some Rambo movie clips and do a face overlay on the video? 😉 B.B. did not weigh in,…. so maybe? he is considering giving us some (actual) shoot, duck and roll action after all?
Suggested tips,…. mattresses, elbow pads, knee pads, helmet,…. add as needed! 😉 LOL!
Oh yea,…. Chiropractor/911 on speed dial might be a good idea too!
You seem to do much better than most,… which I am sure is (very) hard earned.
Chris
Chris USA,
“You seem to do much better than most,… which I am sure is (very) hard earned”
Answer.
Fit or Unfit—your choice. Fit people use exercise to not only look good but to boost their energy levels and immune system, keep their mind sharp, and keep up a high quality of life. Unfit people wait until the $#^% hits the fan and their doctor has put them on seven kinds of medication just so they can function and THEN exercise becomes a consideration. Do you:
see exercise as a way of life or as a chore?
workout to get better or to get it over?
look for new ways to push yourself to get better results or too busy, too tired, or too lazy—have an excuse for everything?
see exercise as prevention or as treatment?
take action or sit around and talk about how to get in shape?
I swim because I know I will be able to do it way into really old age
I Seakayak because I love it and my wife does it with me in our EPIC 18X DOUBLE
I SKI because I love it; especially Nordic because it has allowed me to downhill into my 70’s
I workout with a Personal Trainer for an hour a week along with my wife because it is one of the best investments we have ever made for our lives as well as our IOPS. We also workout with a bunch of our age active geezers for an additional 6 hours/week for the social and fitness benefit.
Retirement has been wonderful because of it we certainly feel blessed!
Has that been (very) hard earned? No! It has actually been great fun and VERY REWARDING!
shootski
Shootski,
Nothing to add to that! Well said and the wise will ponder (and hopefully act on) heavily.
Chris
Ok I just remembered this.
Last night when I went to work I was tying in with the second shift maintenance tech that I relieve when I come in on third shift. We got through talking about work and started talking guns. He is younger than me but grew up in the country and hunts and pests. But he hunts with bow and arrow and centerfire rifles and pests with rimfire. About maybe a year ago he bought a hand pump from me and my old QB that I converted to a Air Venturi hpa regulated bottle.
We started talking about how to keep the o-rings in the gun lubbed. I told him a silicone based oil and no petroleum based oil or there could be a explosion with the high pressure compressed air. Here’s what he had to say. “I wonder if vegtible oil would be ok.” He says he lubes his compound bow strings and crossbow strings with it to keep the scent down and keep it smooth.
I told him I don’t know. I would have to say vegtible oil doesn’t contain petroleum oil.
So my question is. Would vegtible oil be safe to introduce to the inside of a pcp and not cause a explosion?
GF
Vegetable oil will burn. Probably NOT a good idea.
tt
TT
You know what you just made me remember something else.
At my old house the neighbor made diesel fuel from McD’s used oil and other restaurants used oil. He had a big black dulley diesel truck. When he went by it would be blowing a hint of black exhaust that smelled like McD’s french fries.
Gunfun1,
The fries were better back when they used beef lard!
shootski
Shootski
I don’t know about that. Too much salt to tell the difference.
GF1,
Beef fat is tallow. Pig fat is lard. I just saw both for sale at Walmart in the somewhat gourmet ingredient section. Premium bakers prefer it,… but I can not remember the specific baked good(s) at the moment. Oh, it’s pretty well established that butter is better for you than margarine,… no matter how much it taste like butter!
Chris
Chris USA,
Got my wife to switch to butter before we got married…her parents were margarines all her life! Once she tasted some really good BUTTER on a bowl of popcorn I made she never looked back. I guess all the tryglicerides in Tallow and probably the cheap cost (didn’t think it wasn’t Lard too!…Ancora imparo) is why McD’s used it early on over the bad plant oils they use now! I have used Tallow to make candles as a kid.
shootski
Shootski,
Perhaps you recall?,….. I like odd words. You got me on the “Ancora imparo” bit. My spell check did not care for it, nor did Wikipedia. Wiki was like “Huhhhhhhh?”
Chris
Chris USA,
ANSWER:
https://www.trainingforwarriors.com/ancora-imparo/
enjoy!
shootski
Chris
I heard somewhere, can’t remember where and it was some time back.
Margarine is suppose to be like one chemical part away from being plastic. Supposedly margarine was developed by some chicken farmers to make the chicken bigger or something and it never worked out. So instead of loosing all their time and money they invested they marketed it as margarine.
Who would of thought.
GF1,
Not heard that one,…. but ok. A fellow at work one time was eating an apple. We got on the subject of food health. He made the statement something to the effect of the body saying,… “What am I supposed to do with this?”,……….. meaning,… that the body prefers non modified things VS eating something with added ingredients/modified food stuffs/fake ingredients. In general,…. I always try to keep that in mind.
That said,…. I will be tempted (read: WILL EAT) a well charred hot dog/brat in heartbeat.
How’s the wife? Getting on well?
Chris
Chris
The wife is doing fine and even better after we heard from the insurance company. I got some additional insurance through work kind of like Aflac. We are getting $6500 back from that policy from her hospital stay.
And here check this out. It’s like a health forum. It’s about the margarine and plastic.
https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=16523.0
Gunfun1,
Dittos on Twotalon!
It has carbon in it along with VOCs (Volatile Organic Compounds.)
shootski
Shootski
Read my comment to TT.
Gunfun1,
He was COKING you!!!! Shoot his duellies out next time…Lol!
shootski
Shootski
What was funny is you would see a pack of dogs following behind him yiping and howling with their nose in the air. 😉