by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Walther LP2 single stroke pneumatic target pistol.
This report covers:
- LP2 valve weak?
- Differences between the LP2 and LP3
- Velocity
- RWS Hobby
- Gamo Match
- H&N Finale Match Light
- Trigger
- Pumping effort
- LP3 velocity
- Accuracy
- Summary
As you learned in Part 1, my new/old Walther LP2 target pistol did not work when I got it. So I sent it to Scott Pilkington for repairs. Scott had to disassemble it first to see what it needed and then order the parts. I received the pistol back this Wednesday and it is now working fine — thanks, Scott!
LP2 valve weak?
I have always heard that the LP2 has a weak valve that’s subject to failure. It was apparently corrected when the LP3 came out. Whether that is true or not I can’t say, because this is the first working LP2 I have seen and handled. I have owned two LP3s in the past. The first was the model that had the full target grips and the second one had the sporter grips that look like the grips on this LP2. I have seen several LP2s at airgun shows but they were always non-functional.
Differences between the LP2 and LP3
I mentioned in Part One that the LP3 replaced the LP2. John McCaslin loaned me his LP3 for comparison. Now let’s look at some of the differences.
LP2 above and LP3 below. The 3 has the optional target grips.
Not only was the valve changed in the LP3, the method of access was, too. LP2 above and 3 below.
The barrel profile changed, as well. LP2 on the left. The LP3 round barrel is less expensive to profile.
Velocity
This is velocity day, so let’s get started. I know the LP2 powerplant is weak, so I will shoot lighter pellets and also no lead-free pellets, as they can stick in the bore of a weaker airgun.
RWS Hobby
The first pellet I tried was the 7-grain RWS Hobby wadcutter. Four of the first 5 shots were in the 330 f.p.s. range, with one going out at 290. That was on the low side of what I expected. But the Hobby pellet has a large skirt and I wondered whether that was slowing the pellet. So the next 10 shots were all seated deep with a ballpoint pen.
A ballpoint pen seated each Hobby pellet about a quarter-inch into the breech.
When I did that the velocity increased by over 20 f.p.s. The average of 10 deep-seated Hobbys was 354 f.p.s. The low was 342 and the high was 364 f.,p.s. That’s a spread of 22 f.p.s. I know it’s not very fast, but it’s about what I expected from this pistol. It’s in the Daisy 777 range and perfectly acceptable.
Gamo Match
Gamo Match wadcutters weigh 7.56 grains. Ten of them were seated deep and averaged 336 f.p.s. with a low of 325 and a high of 350 The spread was 25 f.p.s.
Sometimes Gamo Match pellets are surprisingly accurate and I hope this is one of the times. I did note while deep-seating them that that their skirts are smaller and they fit in the breech easier than the Hobbys.
H&N Finale Match Light
The last pellet I tested was the 7.87-grain H&N Finale Match Light wadcutter. They fit the breech about the same as the Gamo Match and I deep-seated them with a ballpoint pen as well.
Ten pellets averaged 339 f.p.s. with a spread from 318 to 350 f.p.s. — a difference of 32 f.p.s. Eliminate that one slow pellet and the other 9 stayed in 11 f.p.s. (339-350 f.p.s.).
Trigger
The LP2 trigger is adjustable for letoff weight (the point at which the pistol fires), length of first stage, weight of first stage and overtravel. In all it’s a dandy trigger that was probably world-class in its day.
On the pistol I’m testing I lightened the trigger pull until stage two broke at exactly 1 pound. It’s as crisp as a glass rod breaking, so even though it’s too light for competition, I’m leaving it where it is.
Pumping effort
The Walther LP-series pistols have always pumped hard — or at least that’s what I always thought. But when I measured the pumping effort for this one on my bathroom scale I was shocked. This one takes just 15 lbs. of effort to pump. I would have thought it was over 30 pounds. I guess the difficulty is because of the short pump lever.
LP3 velocity
Just for fun I also shot 10 RWS Hobby pellets with the LP3. I will show you the whole string because of what happened.
Shot………Vel.
1………….342
2………….340
3………….344
5………….351
6………….394 — WHAT?
7………….391
8………….395
9………….387
10………..349
I guess the piston seal needed to warm up. Or something. This is the hottest LP3 I have even seen.
Accuracy
No, this is not accuracy day. But there is something to see.
The pistol I bought came in the original serial-numbered box with two original owner’s manuals — one in English and the other in German. The one in German has a test target that shows what to expect and it’s serial-numbered to the gun, as well. I measure that group at 0.145-inches between centers.
The test group that came with my LP2 measures 0.145-inches between centers.
Summary
Of course we still have to test this pistol for accuracy, so it remains to be seen what old BB can do with it.
I’m wondering if John will get his LP3 back anytime soon
Kevin,
For some reason or other your comment made me laugh. John will probably get it back after B.B. is done with it.
Siraniko
Kevin,
I am, too! Ha, ha! 😉
BB
This report could end up having over 100 parts then : b
Nice rifling and lead in on the barrel.
Is that the LP2 or LP3?
Do you know who makes the barrel?
GF1,
That is the LP2 that I shot in today’s test. I was showing you a deep-seated Hobby pellet.
I imagine Walther, who was and still is a world-class maker of barrels, made the barrel.
BB
BB
Yep I seen that about the deep seated pellet.
And I was wondering if it was a Walther barrel. It has that wider land and a nice deep groove for the rifling.
GF1,
I would like to see more give us a nice lead in like that.
RR
Yep.
BB,
Interesting. I was surprised at the power,… but then what do I know? There can not be much of a power plant given the size. Like weaker springer rifles,… we know that they can have their benefits.
Looking forwards to more reports.
Chris
Chris,
These appear to be much smaller than my Izzy. At least not as massive. These look as though they would sit in the hand nicely, sort of like a firearm pistol. My Izzy sits like a long barreled revolver.
RR,
They do look like they would be very comfortable to handle. Note the rear of LP3 and how it is cut out much higher for the web of the hand.
I’m not much of a pistol shooter,… but some of those big air hand guns are just plain ridiculous in size. At that point, you might as well go rifle or carbine.
Chris
Chris,
I think the idea was to make the 10 meter air pistols barrel-heavy to stabilize them in use. But these air pistols lack the muzzle flip of firearms, so I wonder if that would have made a difference. Nowadays, 10 meter pistols tend to be lighter overall, and they sometimes have significantly less barrel weight, perhaps the best example being the Air Arms Alfa-Proj.
Michael
Michael,
The muzzle heaviness makes it easier to hold on target. The newer ones are shorter and lighter. They also have air strippers and muzzle flip compensators. If you look at the picture of the Alfa Proj you can see them. Despite what many think, these match air pistols and air rifles do have recoil and do have muzzle flip. Not much, but it is there. Enough to make the difference between a winner and a loser.
RidgeRunner,
My hands are so shaky, I need a Heisenberg compensator!
Michael
Michael
What happens when you grip up the gun tighter. Does the shake stop or does it transfer to the gun?
Gunfun1,
Tightening or loosening my grip doesn’t help. I’ve had shaky hands my whole life, even when I was a kid. It prevents me from shooting not just air pistols well. It also prevents me from shooting air rifles well offhand. Rested, I’m O.K., but otherwise, forget it.
Michael
Michael,
It sounds like you need more of an inertial dampening field than a Heisenberg compensator. Maybe Barkley can devise something portable for you.
Barkley has the best Holodeck sims. ;^)
RR
I mostly shoot spinners and such when I’m bench resting. Like mini sniping in a sense. I shoot at target paper just to make sure the guns are zeroed.
And usually all my standing shooting I do is with open sights or dot sights. And with scopes too.
And yep a cool one included for me too.
There was nowhere to reply below on your comment so I replied here.
Michael
Off hand pistol or rifle is harder to shoot than bench resting.
I’ll have to say that now days 75% of my shooting is bench resting.
It was probably the other way around when I was a kid. Probably 75% of my shooting was unsupported and 25% was resting the gun.
I like both ways of shooting but bench resting is definitely easier. To me anyway.
GF1,
I am the opposite. Unless I am zeroing a scope or shooting long range, I am most often shooting open sights either standing or sitting.
I really enjoy taking one of the old gals out on the back porch and sitting on the stairs, leaning back against the rail post and plinking away while sipping on a cool one.
Chris,
Those massive air pistols are our fault. We want an air pistol powerful enough to hunt with. It is possible to build an air pistol of this size and have the power to kill a squirrel at 50 yards, but you would get only one shot. Then you would have to refill the air reservoir to a pretty high pressure and I am quite certain it would have a substantial bark to it.
The airgun industry is trying though. Look at the Ataman AP16. Now if someone was to make something similar at an affordable price, it would sell like hotcakes. It would have to be built by Wang Po Industries though.
RR,
Like the Artemis PP700S? – Don
/blog/?s=Pp700&btnGo=
Don,
That is one of the smaller pistols these days. Chris was referring to things like the Marauder pistol and the AirForce pistol. They have the power, but golly gee whiz you need a shoulder stock with those.
Don,
I wonder if that is a Chinese copy of the Kalibr Ocelot?
I can deal with these things being single shot, but I do not think I have enough life left in me to deal with that regulator.
RR,
Thanks for mentioning the Kalibr Ocelet. Very nice grip. Except for the grip, the PP700S-A is very similar in appearance – Don
RR,
I deleted my PCP pistol comparison comment because resulting formatting was hard to read. – Don
BB,
I prefer the looks of the LP2 over the LP3, but I am certain the LP3 fits the hand better, even if it had the sporter grips. I especially like the barrel profile of the LP2 in the looks department, but the recessed crown of the LP3 is awesome.
I do have a question concerning the barrels. On the LP2 it looks as if the barrel is actually an insert. Is this so? Quite ingenious actually. You are less likely to lose an expensive barrel through a slight machining mishap. My 1906 BSA has the barrel and receiver block machined from one piece of steel. A slight mishap toward the end of machining and a big chunk of steel and a lot of man hours becomes scrap.
Does the LP3 barrel appear to be an insert also?
RR,
Yes, I think you’re right. The LP2 barrel is steel and its jacket is aluminum.
BB
BB,
Nice too see these older pistols live on ! Good to see them side to side . Like any product they learn from the mishaps and improve them . I have always thought that the LP3 Walther or the IZH46M Baikal would be great guns to reproduce and use stainless steel or Black Nitride on Carbon steel parts . This way they would hold up and not succumb to corrosion. Probably the carbon steel route then Nitriding would win out on cost and longevity of tooling . Maybe You can convince Air Force to make a nice SSP pistol . A guy can dream .
Gene Salvino
Gene,
As I am sure you are aware, the Izzy is built like a tank. Mine lives in a nice case and after every shooting session, it gets a little Balistol and a good wipe down.
These things rarely succumb to corrosion. They are usually handled with TLC by the original owners. What typically happens is a small internal part breaks, rendering it inoperable and the owner does not bother to have it fixed. They just get rid of it and move on. This is very likely how BB ended up with this LP2.
Daisy Buck 105b Troubles:
I’ve met a NEW challenge on these LOW-end Buck airguns, maintaining them for the local Boy Scout Council. A few guns are HARD to get BBs to “chamber”, and one, now REFUSES to settle a BB into firing position. I’ve gutted & cleaned this gun twice now, and see NO problems in the barrel assembly or anywhere. The gun DOES cock fine, fires “air” fine, and I can see BBs in the slot, but no BBs are shot. I CAN cock the gun, feed a BB into the muzzle, hear it click onto the holding magnet, THEN shoot it, but obviously cannot allow Cub Scouts to handle a gun this way. ANY ideas? I’m considering grinding a bit off the plunger tube, to see if MAYBE it has somehow shifted and is blocking the BB feed, but then, wouldn’t it also impede the BB feed from the muzzle, as I tested???
Barrika,
Maybe the BBs are failing to feed due to a burr left behind by the stamping process partially obstructing the BB from feeding into the barrel?
Siraniko
Beautiful old match pistol! Really looking forward to reading subsequent installments.
I don’t recall ever having had the chance to shoot or handle one of these.
As I understand it, the LP3 doesn’t have the rear of the receiver cut away to allow the gun to sit lower, that is an improvement on the dedicated LP3 Match variant, together with the wooden palm rest grips. The parts diagram shows two different receivers, numbers 38 (basic variant) and 90 (LP3 Match).
The cross-section seems to show the gun is basically solid in that area (I imagine the rearsight elevation screw comes down into it a little) so presumably this is the evolution of a design that started out duplicating the feel of the Olympia .22 pistols as closely as possible, into something that was a dedicated target pistol in its own right.
http://www.muzzle.de/N3/Druckluft/Walther_LP2_LP3/walther_lp2_lp3.html
Iain
RidgeRunner ,
Actually they fail from lack of lube . This causes corrosion in the valve body . Yes if they are maintained and oiled after shooting they will last a lifetime. It would be nice if the receiver body was made from billet and not a casting , but then the gun is 1970s technology and Soviet , so efficiency was not a concern . They had to work with what they had .
Gene Salvino
Gene,
I guess it is difficult for me to fathom someone not caring for any of these. If anything, I am guilty of too much lubrication. Not just my Izzy, all of the old gals that live here at RRHFWA.
One of these ladies will be 115 this Spring. With BB’s encouragement I rescued her and restored her to life. She had suffered badly from lack of lubrication, from disintegrated leather seal to galling, but with a little effort and a lot of TLC I brought her back to shooting trim. Now she is the Queen of my collection and is shot regularly.
Technologically, the Walther LP2 shares a lot of similarities with the LGR rifle.
Got that Buck 105b FIXED! Cobalt 317 suggested that I replace the cocking lever. I thought he was crazy, but it worked! Turns out the in-service lever TIP was wearing down, and did not cock the plunger tube QUITE far enough to allow a BB to settle into position… I again worship the ground he walks on! 🙂
Cobalt is the bb gun guru.
Don,
I will second that. He hangs at “The High Road” as I recall and there is bunch of guys there that that know them inside and out,… from the new ones to the old ones. Mix up the parts, mod them,.. you name it.
Chris
An afternoon’s tinkering in the garage a couple of year’s ago birthed this entry for the airgun build challenge. I humbly present to you the “Bombero”, or shoulder-mounted-precharged-extinguisher-blow-pipe. It was assembled from a small fire extinguisher tank (800psi rated), 1/4 inch air tool quick couplers, 1/2 inch hdpe water pipe, and aluminum tubing for barrels. If I am remembering correctly, nothing was purchased for the build- all parts and pieces were scavenged from coffee cans in the garage. It is charged from an air compressor and gets a few shots at diminishing velocities depending on the starting pressure. I have made heavy 3/32 dia x 4″ steel darts that will go clean through 1/2″ plywood at 10-15 yards from 150psi fill pressure (max pressure from my small finish nailer compressor).
Right .We don’t need those 2 and 3000 psi guns do we.
Sounds like it could be a nice air shot gun to me with the right load.
GF1,
You mean to tell me that you can’t throw “something” together for an entry?
Chris
Chris
You already know that answer. 😉
Gf1,
No,… not sure I do. You are a machinist which puts you ahead of the crowd. You have done many mods and probably have a bunch of stuff laying around.
Unless??????,… you are already working on something and keeping it on the “down-low”?
Chris
Chris
If the motivation strikes me all I can say is the sky’s the limit.
Sorry no extra motivation right now.
Still trying to get ahead of the game with the rest of my life.
GF1,
Got it. Been there, done that.
Chris
Chris
Yep.
gf1,
if you’d invested half the time you gave to writing comments here into bb’s contest, you could’ve already built ur dream tr5 steam.
😉
Fish
Stop. Your making my ears hurt.
Listen now. TR5. No hope. Not for me anyway.
Your making me get ready to say bad things and I’m not ready to go there right now. 😉
And trust me. I use my time on way more important things than something like the TR5. Well hey. At least I tried to help the TR5. 🙂
I wonder how many air guns over time fall into that fail complentation category. There has to be more.
One was a pistol I believe Umerax made a little while back that you almost couldn’t get your finger on the trigger because of the way it was designed.
Maybe that’s the report that needs done. Failed airgun attempts. You know what I mean.
gf1,
yes, two reports have to be done.
– failed airgun attempts
&
– airguns that should’ve never been discontinued!
Fish
Agree.
Gunfun1,
Is this the one? Only long, thin fingers need apply.
Michael
Michael
Yep that’s it. That is just plain ridiculous.
That contraption frightens me!
I will certainly admit I had my goggles on for the 1st shot. But hdpe water pipe is pressure rated to 200psi, the tank is rated to 800psi, and the fittings are all rated as well. I charge it from a standard compressor with a max psi of 150lbs. I would imagine the pressures inside the air tube of a Red Rider are close to that. How many pumps on a Crosman 760 would give you 150psi? 2-3?
Ade
Don’t be scared. Your not pulling the firing pin. 😉
No Fear !!!
So here how about this. Reality.
What do think is wrong that is scarry? Not what I think or anybody else but you.
Oh and I use to machine the aluminum valve on top of the fire extinguisher bottles. We tested them for flow and seat sealing pressure then they went on to another part of the building for pressure testing. I’m not sure what that pressure was but I’m thinking around 900 psi which is what Co2 runs at.
So what do you say. What are you scared of?
Hey, I’m from the UK where we’re not encouraged to play with things that go bang! I’m only just starting to get my head around the whole PCP thing. Plumbing and airguns is still an odd mix for me
Ade
Ok I see. Springers are probably one of the most popular guns over there from what I gather.
Gunfun
I’d say it’s about 70/30 in favour of the pppffft guns (PCP’s). Most people just seem content with resting on a bench and bragging about putting pellets through the same hole. Doesn’t seem like challenging shooting to me.
Ade
The trick is to find a gun and right pellet that can do that on a bench say out at 50 yards.
Then the next part of it is to find a target that is challenging for you like say a bottle cap on the ground at 50 yards from a bench.
Then if that’s no challenge then try standing shooting free hand with no rest at the bottle cap at 50 yards.
See for me. I look for boring accurate guns. If you count your fingers on your hand. I have about 2 handful of fingers of boring accurate guns.
If you run across any more I would be glad to take them off your hands. 🙂
Gunfun
I get your point but benchrest shooting doesn’t hold my interest. I’m more of a pistol guy. 10m air pistol is probably the hardest discipline of all
Ade
I actually just responded to RidgeRunner above about this.
I bench rest mostly at spinners out at farther distances and different distances. I use paper targets and bench resting to make sure my guns are still zeroed.
My brother is a pistol shooter. I like rifles but I do shoot pistols also.
And I don’t only bench rest. I like fast action shooting at multiple targets with my semi auto type rifles. And that’s always standing unsupported for me.
So yep I know what you mean.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zuLFl6AayQ
I have both a long and short barrel with male quick connect couplers attached so I can swap at will, though the short barrel is for fun and not accuracy. There are 2 female quick couplers in this setup so that I can install a barrel and then fill with it attached. I didn’t want to risk filling the tank and then installing the barrel. The long barrel has Benjamin 392/7 scope mounts with rear open sights from a qb rifle that I align with the tip of the barrel to sight.
One of the things I love about this goofy little setup is pulling the pin from the extinguisher trigger (taking safety off) before firing. The steel balls are slingshot ammo and are not as accurate as the darts but do leave a mean dent in a piece of plywood or paint can.
PST,
We now have an official Entry #2 of a (working) air gun!!!!!! 🙂
Chris
Pro steel
How about some buck shot or birdshot in the barrel.
I’m seeing low psi air shotgun written all over your idea.
But might need a smaller diameter barrel.
I had some thoughts on that but haven’t tested anything. One of the major drawbacks of the manual “squeeze valve” in an extinguisher is a slow and pretty uncontrolled opening of the valve followed by a slow closing of the valve. So, low pressure at low flow in an unmetered dump of air- and I suspect a loose load of shot would just dribble out the barrel from this setup. But what about a load of shot in, say, a paper wrapped cylinder? It would be a solid projectile until it exited the barrel and could/might/should take better advantage of the low pressure and flow rate?
Pro steel
Right I remember someone doing this some years back.
You need a fast dump valve of some type. All the air has to exhaust as fast as possible with the low 150 psi with that big diameter barrel your using.
And right a wadding of some sort would be needed. I Have done bird shot in .177 air guns it works.
But the trick is to get the valve to dump as much air as fast as possible. That’s when you make power.
Most regular pcp guns that shoot the small bore calibers use around a 100 or so psi per shot and up on pressure but with a smaller diameter less volume barrel.
The thing is the valve doesn’t need to fill the bigger volume barrel like your using on your air gun.
If you reduce your barrel diameter you might get some interesting results.
Figuring out how to get any kind of consistancy in the expansion of the shot seems like a tough nut as well.
Pro Steel
Yep that too. Alot of variables as usual.
But the thing is it’s a cool idea.
I love messing with the potatoe guns.
Me and my brother made different length and diameter screw on barrels for our potatoe guns. A 1 and a 1/2 inch diameter by 20 inch long barrel made the most power with our combustion chambers we had on our guns. They would dent a old galivinized steel trash can at 50 yards real good.
What we should of tried and never did was reduce the barrel diameter and try some sort of load like our steel bb’s for our bb guns we talk about here on the blog.
I bet it would of been effective at 25 or so yards. Ethier way a fun project.
GF1,
I think a 410 plastic wad with steel bbs and a long barrel might work.
Don
Yep I think so too.
Maybe Pro Steel will give it a try. Or somebody into this stuff. Hint, hint. 🙂
A standard schedule 40 mild steel pipe 5/8 nominal with a 0.109 wall thickness is .407 that may work. Not sure of the diameter of a 410 plastic wad. The working pressure is 5050 psi so that is good. A little honing to smooth it up.
Your the one wanting a airshotgun!
Don
Don
Yep I do want a air shotgun.
But I don’t have anything to convert that I don’t want to mess up.
I guess I’m just doomed for now.
If you look at the photos you will see there is a ball valve (the red handle) between the tank and the barrel. This was my attempt to regulate shot volume-
1. Ball valve is closed
2. Squeeze trigger on tank valve which will fill a short length of tube with pressurized air. (Is this a power plenum?)
3.Open ball valve to fire.
As a proof of concept it worked, but there is no fast way to open a 1/4 turn manual valve.
PST,
With that set up,.. a good tight fitting wad in front of the shot would allow maximum pressure to build (before) things start to move. Some playing around would be required to determine correct “tight”.
As for the valve,…. spring load the handle and use a pull pin to fire. Not the best, but would be quicker than a human,… most likely.
As for plenum, the more the better from what I have been able to gather. Not so much pressure,.. but rather volume. Again,… from what I have gathered.
Chris
Pro Steel
Get rid of the plenum.
Let all the air dump you can.
It will probably have to be a one shot gun.
But it will be a fun gun each shot you take.
Right?
GF1,
Why? The plenum contains a fixed charge, that when fired,.. won’t dump the entire main tank. I say increase the plenum volume and do a good tight wad in front of the shot.
Chris
Chris
If the plenum was as big as the fire extinguisher bottle than it would be worth while to have.
That whole extinguisher bottle needs to dump to fill that barrel he’s using.
Using the small plenum I’m surprised its getting the projectile out of the barrel with any force.
Without going back didn’t he say 15 yards. That’s not very far.
That vacuum gun you posted the link to is probably making more power than his gun. And remember how violent the vacuum gun releaed. It also had speed of air movement along with volume. That’s what needs to happen. That’s why our air gun valves and barrels work.
What his gun needs is a valve that flows like if someone took a hammer and knocked the aluminum valve on the bottle off abruptly. A big opening that releases the whole bottle of air to the barrel.
I think the volume of the plenum pipe would be enough to fire the darts at reasonable velocities 10-15 yards- deep into plywood, not through- but the hitch is the manual ball valve. Too slow with that small volume of air. The pipe plemum is 1/2 x 6″, roughly 19ccs of air. But it is slow to open, slow to flow.
Pro Steel
True.
But what do you really want from the gun?
I don’t have any grand plans for it at the moment. It was an afternoon hmm.. in the garage and it worked, and for the time being I’m OK with it being what it is. Proof of concept, check. It isn’t going to be dropping gazelles on the African savanna no matter what I do to it, if you know what I mean.
Pro Steel
You did good. Really.
Glad you got into it.
Doesn’t mean it’s done.
I say what’s the next step where you need to go.
PST,
We were talking “burst disk” at one time. Think,… aluminum foil (layers) that would “burst” at X pressure. You could open the valve as slow as you want,.. but the strength of the foil (and the pressure behind it) would determine the (immediate) firing.
Just an idea,……..
Chris
Chris
If you wanted to make vacuum like that link you listed about the vacuum gun you would need to feed the gun air from the opposite end if you was going to use a valve to make vaccum. You would need to port it different too.
I was wondering if anyone else had seen the “PSA” posted in one of the air rifle forums about the Texan big bore rifle. Seems someone was shooting one until it dumped its air. Apparently the slug that was in it was stuck in the barrel at some mid point after the air was dumped, and when the rifle was being refilled, it pressurized the bore and shot out the slug, penetrating a picture, drywall and lodged in a 2×4 stud. Something to think about there.
Just read it. From what I saw, the gun blew up and there was some very serious facial injury to the shooter,… (like in the hospital and surgery serious). Will be following.
Edit: GTA,….. by the way.
I didn’t see that one, only the one with drywall damage.
MM,
This seems to be the latest:
No Texan valve from us or Jeremy at AAO has BLOWN UP ! The person Picked up a bottle that was supposed to be full of helium from his local welding shop and they mistakenly gave him a bottle of oxygen instead. Some people need to wait to hear the facts before they start blaming products or people in the industry for what has happened
Chris
Chris
Wow.
Crazy stuff there.
GF1,
Yea,… was the guy given the oxygen tank and did not notice (or) was the tank filled with the wrong gas? Either way,… a good reminder to respect what we are dealing with. Of course,.. the average air gunner is not going to be seeking out Helium either. I will stick with plain ol’ air.
Chris
Chris
I’m surprissed it hasn’t happened sooner.
To me the gas company is in big trouble right now.
And shows you that we really need to know how to identify what we use.
But even so. If it was filled wrong by the gas company. How would you know.
We get all different kind of glasses at work. If one was filled wrong we would have a bomb waiting to go off it was introduced into a certain machine.
Chris U,
Usually oxygen bottles are green and helium are orange. I seem to remember seeing helium in a green bottle though. I just don’t remember.
Definately something to keep in mind.
Don
True.
But what would happen if the gas company filled the bottle with the wrong gas.
How would you know?
Gunfun1,
You take a big inhale…if you sound like Donald Duck you had a shot of a light gas-probably Helium. If you take a deep inhale of 100% Oxygen everything that you look at will suddenly seem brighter.
FOLKS I am JOKING about this method…do not try this at home!
Actually a glowing wood splint would be a far safer test. Helium will put it out and Oxygen will make it burst into flame.
If your Gas Supplier makes that kind of mistake they should be sued out of business!
shootski
Shootski
It will be interesting to see what happens.
Don,
I do not know. I am no expert, but I think that there is some (thread) specifics to different gases to prevent such things from happening. Again,.. I do not not know other than from limited life experiences.
Chris
Chris
Your right about that too.
Wonder if the guy made up his own adapter and didn’t know what he was doing..
Chris,
The jury is still out on this “accident”. As far as I have heard, there is no proof that this actually happened. Mixing up tanks at a welding supplier is virtually impossible! The tank threads are different for different types of gases. Don’t spread rumors. Wait for a real. proven report is out.
Doug,
I have said nothing else about it since and have been following the comments over at GTA. Yea, things are not stacking up.
Chris
The greatest thing about this build was the simplicity. I wasn’t reinventing the wheel by any means, but mostly was just curious. My son had wondered, “Hey dad, do you think we could shoot blowgun darts out of my paintball gun?” And I thought to myself, that sounds like a pretty stupid idea. But wait… hmmm, I wonder. And thus the tinkering began.
I lucked into having everything on hand. But once I got started I knew it would work. Built and tested in a day. That never happens. And everything that went into the idea was based on info I have gotten here, from BB and all of you forum regulars. I know how Co2 and PCPs work from this blog. I knew I could mount sights on the barrel using Benjamin 392/7 mounts from this blog, and that a fin-stabilized projectile should be accurate, and that a slower but heavier dart would carry more momentum and thus more FPE than a lighter dart at low pressures, etc.
This blog has played an incredible trick on me by making me think I’m learning about airguns and pellets while teaching me engineering and physics, manufacturing, even marketing theory.
ProfSteelToe,
I like it, I have thought about adding a spring to open the ball valves on my spud guns. Close the valve against the spring and hold closed with a latch. Pop the latch to fire. That would work with a plenum or complete air dump. It may not open faster but should give more consistent velocities and maybe easier to hold on target. No safety on the trigger so keeping it pointed in a safe direction is critical. My philosophy is to keep all guns pointed in a safe direction, even if unloaded.
I have also used gas plug valves as they can be adjusted for the required torque to open and close. They can be drilled with a hole at 90 degrees the plug opening and and in the body at 90 degrees to open so when the valve is off the barrel is open to the atmosphere and can be loaded from the muzzle. I used one plug valve for both the intake and exhaust valve in a steam engine.
On one of my spud guns the tank is the plenum. With the air compressor refills are not an issue.
A cheap laser sight would work also.
Good stuff,
Don
Is there a name for a valve like that? It almost sounds like a trigger, but one in which the sear releases a valve catch instead of a hammer. Sort of reverse-o. A dump valve trigger.. hmm, I wonder. Ah hell, this is how the tinking starts, Don!
Pro Steel
Do you remember the show Mythe Busters?
They used one of the fast dump valves on a shop compressor air gun.
It was very effective.
Gunfun1,
Excellent episode if it’s the one I’m thinking of. Was it the one in which Adam makes a “barrel” that is something like 30 feet long?
Michael
Michael
Yep that one.
I will have to check that out.
So, as an addendum, here are some of the great lessons I get from tinkering around on projects like this.
1. I get to flush out some of the notions that I think I understand until I really DO understand them.
2. I develop real and sincere appreciation, however briefly, for the fact that there is almost always an existing product- like for example the Umarex Air Javelin for a mere $170- that yesterday I thought I might spend a minute buiding from scratch, smart guy that I am, and today I can’t believe this complicated piece of technology could be had for a few measly dollars.
I tinker and modify because I’m curious and I can’t help it. But it is helpful to be reminded that I am an idiot, and that the world is full of experts who do this for a living. At the end of my “Journey of Discovery” I can be proud of myself for building a thing that shoots darts across my garage, learning a great deal about air projectile power plants and ballistics, etc., and then go buy an Air Force Texan and feel even smarter for skipping all that work and expense and swearing.
Pro Steel
Call it what you will. A blessing or a curse.
There are others on the blog that are modders too.
Welcome to the club.
Really we ain’t bad people just because we take apart brand new gun when we get it to make it better.
Right? 🙂
PST,
LOL! Yea,… (not) reinventing the wheel does have it’s merits! Been there, done that,.. and VERY prone to repeating it!
Chris
It makes me appreciate things that just work the way you want them to. I have a 2260 co2 pellet rifle that I bought new 5-6 years ago that just makes one hole with any pellet you shove in it. Put ’em in backwards. I accidentally loaded 2 once and it still gave me 1/4″ spread at 10yds. Simple, always on, just shoots. And after hours and hours of work trying to modify an airgun to get a little more power, or a little quieter shot, or a little smoother trigger, I look at a gun like that and think, “How in world can somebody design and build something as perfect as that for $80? All those moving parts. All that design and machine work and assembly, shipped on a boat thousands of miles and then trucked to a store. It is a marvel, really. I’ve spent $80 at the drive-through.
ProfSteelToe,
If it ain’t broke . . . :^)
Michael
Pro Steel
I want your 2260.
Mine won’t do that.
And they don’t cost $80 anymore.
GF1
That 2260 lives next to my tool bench as my go-to pesting gun out the garage window. We are overrun by red squirrels and sometimes rats wander over when they get tired of eating my neighbors chicken feed. I’ve got 2 bird feeders at 10 and 15 yards. I swear that gun must have been dipped in ballistic voodoo sauce. Just the sound of cocking the action will make varmints within a half mile radius fall over dead.
Pro Steel
I have only a couple guns like that.
I have learned to not let them guns get away from me.
Take good care of that one. 🙂
B.B. did a blog review of the 2260 back in 2005. You may find that an interesting read.
/blog/2005/11/crosman-2260-real-value-in-a-gas-rifle/
B.B.,
It came to me much too late, but I just figured out what I want in an air rifle: a pump-assist Sheridan Blue Streak in .22. If the pump-assist mechanism could hold up to the MAC1 steroid treatment, then that, too. :^)
Michael
Michael,
How about the Air Venturi “Butterfly” pump? It’s pump-assist.
BB
B.B.,
I’ll buy the Air Venturi Butterfly when/if it is available, but I think a pump-assist, side-to-side safety Blue Streak would be the ultimate! :^)
Michael
B.B. and Readership,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=No3nI07mlQo
Fast acting valve for Marshmallows or up size for Tee Shirts!
shootski
Shootski,
Toss in some graham crackers, chocolate and a heating element and you would have a rapid fire S’more delivery device. Yum-yum! 😉
Not really. Never been a fan of them,….. Chris
Shootski,
Just watched it. Not bad. A bit above my pay grade without ever having any geometry or physics formal education. Though I can and have used many shop tools, I do not have any at home,.. other than the usual plethora of hand power tools.
I never did get a reply from BB, but how does one come up with something original that has not been done already,.. or some version there of? On line videos are endless.
Me? I would do a giant sling shot. 2 farm T post, well anchored with multiple tie lines to brace, or solid braces. Cut a new inner tube into one long 2″ wide band, cut in half, install ammo pocket. Draw might be as far as 100 plus feet. That should launch a orange a couple of hundred yards very easily. A loop on the back of the pocket to be used with a good grip draw handle/pole,… with a quick release might be real nice too.
Elevation/trajectory could be controlled by a marked stake at the draw to line (hold lower to gain more distance, for example). It would be a fun big family event for someone that had the space and cheap to make. It would be the main event at a big biker party and could get “real interesting” as the day/night wore on.
Chris
Chris USA,
Okay Chris so you don’t think much of supersonic marshmallows! How about prewetted Tee Shirts?
Just for the added Mass mind you!
The valve system has some possibilities for airguns with some modifications. The high flow and impulse rise could be a real game changer with some regulation and using this valve concept inside the Plenum instead of the one shot dump tank.
shootski
shootski
Gunfun1,
I had just finished a 5 hour 43km paddle when I answered Chris. I enter a plea of impaired judgement.
We didn’t have S’mores but a very fine sipping Bourbon around a carefully tended small campfire on the beach.
I just did another 37km paddle this morning.
That’s my story and I’m sticking with it.
shootski
Shootski,
43 km eh? What is a km,…. like 3 feet? 43×3=129 feet,…. 5 hours?,… yea,… I can see that. You are pretty old,.. after all,…………………… 😉
TRUE inspiration,.. as always!,….. 🙂
Chris
Chris USA,
The really coolest part of the paddling was that it was in support of USMS, USAT and USA swimming! The swimmers ages 8 to 78 swam distances of 1.2 miles, 2.4 miles, 500m, 1,500m, 2500m, 5K and 10K swims. Got to watch some potential 202X Olympic Qualifiers. The youngsters were the most fun they had a ball! Many on their first swims in natural water.
shootski
Chris USA,
It helps to have a really FAST boat like the EPIC 18X Sport Expedition model (43 pounds and 18′ waterline length) really is a joy to paddle in almost any conditions.
shootski
Shootski,
Like I said, a true inspiration to us otherwise,.. couch potatoes. 🙂
On the metric system,… a rather prefer it in many cases. More of a chef than a baker,.. but for baking,.. weighing the ingredients is recognized as being the best, by far.
Chris
Chris USA,
I think you are joining about the actual distance but 26½ miles in 5 hours is no joke for a 70 year old neither is 20 miles. As 54 year old relative couch potato that is ouch!
Siraniko
Siraniko,
Thank you for that! Over this Saturday and Sunday the total kilometers was slightly less than eighty.
Shared a photo of my boat.
shootski
Siraniko,
Of course joking! 😉 Shootski is a true inspiration of aging and physical fitness and what can be possible.
As for the metric system, I rather prefer it for many things.
Chris
Chris USA,
I know I’m tired! Replied to myself! Duh!
shootski
Chris,
It helps to remember that one kilometer is equal to about 5/8 of a mile, think of .6 miles rounded.
In Windows 10 there is a neat little calculator that has several conversion options. You can locate it by clicking the little flag at the lower left corner. There should be a tile with an icon of a calculator. When you open the calculator, at the top left there are three horizontal lines. Click on those lines and a list of optional conversions will appear. If you scroll down, one of them will be “length”. Then you will see two item that if you click the little “V” will give you several options. For example, choose “kilometers” for the top one and “miles” for the bottom one. Then just type in any number and it will be converted. I use this little calculator often to convert things. It’s a pretty neat little app that most people don’t even know exists. Okay, end of computer lesson for today. 😉 Try it out though, I think you will like it.
Geo
Geo,
I have used it. I did not have it pinned to the task bar (but I do now. Just did it).
Thank You!,… as always,…… Chris
Shootski
Nothing like bourbon and a campfire. Sounds like good times.
This is totally off-topic, but for our hobby we need the best eyes we can have; believe B.B. is color blind and other blog readers may be also. Reading an article today in a NC magazine, learned there are glasses that correct color blindness, though these may not work for everyone. Apparently they’ve been in production at least 10 years. The brand is EnChroma – go to enchroma.com . Hope this might help someone.
B.B.,
Today’s blog is running nearly 4 hours late. I hope it’s just a scheduling problem keeping it from being published.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
Yes, a scheduling problem.
BB