How to cheat when you really want an airgun!

by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

This report covers:

  • Really want
  • Think as the world thinks
  • Do whatcha shouldn’t
  • For sale in shop
  • Scruples
  • Something else
  • Winchester 427
  • Too much money!
  • Two hours later
  • Summary

I’m going to cover a topic today that I never thought I would write. You can read the title, and that’s what it’s really about — how to cheat when you really want something! As I am writing this I am doing the very thing that I’m telling you.

Really want

Yesterday reader Ridgerunner posted a link to Gun Broker. I followed it and saw a beautiful Diana model 75 recoilless target rifle. The seller was scrupulously honest and had chronographed the rifle for his listing.

I have wanted to test a Diana 75 for you for many years, and this one looked ideal. Furthermore, it was offered by the original owner who said he had bought the rifle from Beeman Precision Airguns in July of 1982. He has the original receipt, a copy of which which he sent me! He knew for a fact that only 2,330 pellets have been shot through it. Guys — when somebody says things like that and has things like that, he is one of us! This was a rifle I wanted. Let me show you the listing.

Offered is a Right-Handed Diana 75 side-cocking, recoilless, spring-piston air rifle that was designed and sold for use in Olympic 10 Meter air rifle competitions. I purchased this rifle new in July 1982; at that time, this model was being imported and sold by Beeman Precision Airguns as the Beeman 400. This rifle is apparently a transitional model as while I purchased it from Beeman, there are no Beeman markings on the rifle and it is clearly marked as a made in Germany Diana 75 (see photos).

By documented count, this rifle has only had 2330 pellets through it since new, nearly all in the period between 1982 and 1993. The rifle then sat in the safe for more than 23 years without being used. In December 2016, I sent the rifle to noted airgun tech David Slade at Airgunwerkes for service and seal replacement (see scanned invoice). When the rifle was returned to me in February 2017, I fired two pellets through it to check function. It was not fired again until today (11-1-2020) when I put 25 pellets through it to check function again. The rifle sounded slow so I set up a chronograph and it looks like it is only getting about 425 fps with an 8 grain match pellet (it got 600 fps when it was brand new). I don’t know if that was the velocity it got immediately after seal replacement or whether having this rifle sit around without being used for 3 ½ years was not a good thing for the new seals. I had planned to start this auction at $700 but since the rifle is running slow, and another seal replacement could be necessary at some time in the future, I am lowering the starting bid to $500. Those of you that are into these old spring-piston guns know that seals are always an issue, especially in these complicated recoilless models.

Condition is as shown in the photos. The exterior finish is in excellent condition. There is some light soiling from normal use on the stippling of the pistol grip portion of the stock. The metal is in near perfect condition.

Mounted on the rifle are the original front and rear target sights. The front sight has interchageable inserts and all of the original inserts are included in the sale. The trigger is fully adjustable with the pull weight factory set at 150 grams (~5 oz); pull weight is adjustable from 100 to 400 grams (3.5 to 14 ounces). The trigger blade is adjustable for position and cant.

Included in the sale is everything that originally came with the rifle: all original papers and instructions including the factory test target, all tools, the front sight inserts and related tool, etc. (see photo). Also included is a loading tool (the item in the photo with the pocket clip), a .177 cal scoring aid, and some cleaning pellets.

So, we have for your consideration a very gently used Diana 75 competition air rifle, in excellent cosmetic condition, with a documented history, and offered by the original owner. The only negative is the slow velocity that may require seal replacement in the future (let your groups tell you when). This rifle would be a nice addition to a vintage air gun collection.

No FFL is required for this purchase but buyers must be 18 years of age or older if required in your jurisdiction; I will require a proof of age before shipping.

Shipping is $60.00, insured, to the lower 48 states. Actual cost to AK or HI. No international shipments. Shipment will be by UPS Ground. The rifle will be shipped in a new Plano hard case (see photo).

That was the listing I saw on Gun Broker, but the auction had 13 more days to run! What to do?

Think as the world thinks

In other words, wise up, be sharp (crafty, sly etc.). Fortunately I have been stymied several times recently in the online auction game by others who were smarter (craftier) than I. What did they do?

Do whatcha shouldn’t

WARNING — Some of you are about to get very angry when I tell you this! I know I got angry when what I am about to tell you happened to me. It happened not once but at least three successive times. Three times when I was patiently awaiting the end of an auction, it suddenly closed without warning the day before — or longer. No excuse was ever given, because when an item is no longer listed, it’s gone!

The first time it happened I suspected what had happened. The second time I was certain and the third time I figured this must be how online auctions are going these days, and I just didn’t get the memo. Somebody offered the seller enough money privately and he simply took the offer and cancelled the auction.

For sale in shop

I know what you are thinking — that the auction items were also for sale in the seller’s shop and somebody just walked in and bought them. Well, in a case like that what’s supposed to happen is — IF there have been no bids on the item and IF the seller has listed that the item is also for sale in his shop, then someone could legally walk in off the street and buy it. But IF there are bids that’s not supposed to happen. Only it did. To me. Three times! And none of those items were listed that way. So, I smelled a rat. It would be like telling an auctioneer that you will give him money on the side if he hammers an item you want (sells or ends the auction) when your bid is high. 

Is it unscrupulous? I think so. Is it illegal? I don’t know enough about auctions to answer that question. There may be rules I don’t know about that permit it to happen without the law being broken. All I know for sure is it does happen.

So, I did something I am not proud of. I contacted the seller with the following message.

Hello, My name is Tom Gaylord. I write the blog for Pyramyd Air. I would really enjoy testing this air rifle for my blog. https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/ Your starting price is very reasonable. And this gun has been resealed. The original seals all failed, so that is a big plus. I am offering you $750 plus $60 shipping right now. I pay by cashier’s check and I will pay immediately. I know this sounds underhanded but I have had several airguns slip away before the ending date of the auction, so I assume others are doing it. Thank you, Tom

What will he do? He sounds like a very honest person and I think what he should do is either ignore my message or contact me and tell me what I have proposed is against the rules. Or he may confirm that what I have suggested is acceptable but I haven’t offered enough money for the rifle. Or he may accept my offer, in which case I hope to have a very nice Diana 75 to test. I might even have to get it resealed, based on what he says in his listing. And guys — that listing is the kind of listing I like dealing with, because you know the seller is being honest. I would have shown you all the pictures, but there were too many. Just envision a like-new air rifle and you have the picture.

Scruples

Why am I telling you this? I’m telling you because some of you are doing what I’m doing — looking for nice old airguns in the online auctions. You are following what you believe to be the rules, but sometimes when those “deals of a lifetime” come along, odd things happen and the auction goes away before you have a chance to bid. I think I have discovered what happens when that occurs and I’m trying to do something about it.

Something else

Okay, let’s change the subject. Every time I write about a Diana model 27 breakbarrel some of you get all gushy and say things you don’t mean. Things like, “If only I had known!” Well, brace yourselves because today is the day that you know!

I have a link on eBay to a Winchester 427 which is a Diana 27 pellet rifle. Just type in Winchester .22 pellet rifle and you’ll find it. The pictures are horrible, but I have told you what to do about that long ago. Let’s look.

Winchester 427

Here is the first photo in the listing on eBay:

Winchester 427 1
There is something that could be an airgun laying on some kind of background.

Winchester 427 2
By just removing the heavy darkness and brightening things up we see a nice-looking Winchester 427.

And here is a photo of the writing on the rifle.

Writing 427
I wonder what that is? It seems to be a Winchester?

And after some Photoshop cleanup.

Writing 427 2
Not much more I could do with this picture except it shows something pretty well. It shows deep bluing!

Winchester 427 barrel
Okay, here is the barrel.

Winchester 427 barrel 2
And this is what the barrel really looks like! See — it even has a front sight!

Too much money!

This is a Buy it Now sale, which means you just pay the price and it’s yours. The seller wants $255 for the rifle and $35 for shipping. That’s $290 to your door. Is that too much money? Yes — if you are one of the tire-kickers who will end up buying three Chinese breakbarrels over the period of two years to soothe yourself for not getting this one. No — if you are someone who genuinely wants a nice Diana 27. This is a Winchester 427, so it’s on the premium side of Diana 27s. Not like my Hy Score 807 that’s on the low side.

Have I ever seen these rifles cheaper? Of course. Is this one working perfectly? The only way to know that is to shoot it through your chronograph. Oh, wait — you don’t own a chronograph? Well, think about one.

Two hours later

In the two hours that I was writing this blog I was waiting to hear from the seller of the Diana 75/Beeman 400. Here is his reply:

Hello Tom,

I have never stopped a GunBroker auction before but made an exception this time as I know the rifle is going to a knowledgeable airgunner. I was concerned that someone not familiar with air guns would purchase it and then complain that it didn’t get 1000 fps with a hunting pellet.  Also, as an author myself ( https://www.fnbrowning.com/book-fn49-last-elegant-military-rif ), you get bonus points for your work on the blog.

So, I have cancelled the auction and accept your offer of $750 + $60 shipping = $810.  You can send the funds to:

his address

In addition to the material shown in the auction photos, I will also send you a copy of the original receipt, and some chronograph data from 1983 that may be of interest when you are writing up the gun.

Thanks for making the offer and I am VERY glad that the rifle is going to a good home.

Regards,

Wayne

Summary

What I told you today is the truth. It happened yesterday and some of you got to watch it. This approach does work and yes, the fact that it does makes me a little skittish. But you can see what I offered him, which I think is a fair offer. In scripture we are told to be wise like the world and that’s what I think I have done today.

Did I get the rifle for the absolute lowest price possible? Nope. I wanted Wayne to feel he got a fair shake, too. As I have said in the past, if saving money is all you’re after cut a coin slot in the top of your head.

By the way, I think my business is going to purchase Wayne’s book, too. I’m not doing it today because I don’t want to pressure him any more than I already have. But that book looks really interesting and I want it in my gun library.

67 thoughts on “How to cheat when you really want an airgun!


    • Yogi,

      If I were to defend B.B. against the charge of an unscrupulous purchase this would the basis of that D III:

      The unscrupulous person is without scruples of conscience, shows disregard, or has contempt for, laws of right or justice with which he or she is perfectly well acquainted.
      On that element: B.B. is to be considered Not Guilty! No one has shown applicable law or tradition in online auctions which as a matter of fact a Dick Weasel would have exploited. And which should/would restrain a Tom Gaylord’s actions in this transaction.

      On the Charge of: Showing unscrupulousness in methods of making money.
      Tom Gaylord had no such intent as the outcome shows thus far no party gained excessive amounts of gain on the transaction.

      On the Charge of: Taking advantage of the unfortunate.
      There is nill evidence to this point of advantage being gained by either party. But rather, it appears on lengthy consideration that both parties to the transaction feel that the mutual benefits are/were realized.

      The D III rests!

      shootski


      • shootski,

        My parents brought me up to believe” that if you think you did not thing wrong, you probably did”. Right and Wrong were/are black and white. I realize that this not a popular notion these days……
        B.B. “outed himself” with his statements.

        I am not familiar with GunBroker’s auction rules. I am familiar with Bring a Trailer’s auction rules, and the seller would not have been able to withdraw his merchandise.

        -Y
        PS FWIW If I am ever brought to trial for any offense, I want you on my defense team.


        • Yogi,

          I am in complete accord with how your parents chose to raise you. It is the Golden Rule that is your parents and your Standard. If the legal system’s basis was that Golden Rule then of course BB would indeed have been found guilty by a Judge or Jury. I think Tom’s hesitancy is to be found in the Golden Rule.
          I appreciate your confidence in my D ||| capabilities
          I helped defend a number of Aviators with technical research before the Green Table (Pilot Disposition Board) when their Wings of Gold were on the line and never lost once. Had any one of them not been deserving of the benefit of doubt i would have ensured the factual technical data would have left no doubt of their culpability.
          My approach is based on a very strong and personal aversion to a tyrannical system of justice such as the system of Napoleonic Law in which a person is considered guilty until PROVEN innocent.

          Yogi I hope you never have need of my legal consultation. I doubt you will.

          shootski


  1. B.B.,

    WOW, an honest description of a transaction, thanks for the behind the scenes look. Glad you and Wayne were able to pull it off. It will be good to hear a review of the gun. For me that is why I stay out of the auctions.

    Don



  2. B.B.,

    Buying my ticket on the shady side waiting for the Bullfighting to begin.

    Will it be blood in the sand?
    Or a pure triumphantly acknowledged Airgunner’s best play in a less than honorable regime?

    shootski




    • Chanman,

      It is indeed. There is quite often a considerable bit of wheeling and dealing before the doors open. I blew the opportunity to buy two brand new Quakenbush air rifles from the man himself for the price you normally see one for sale.

      Sometimes they disappear after the doors have opened. Why do you think all of those dealers have blankets hanging down over the front of their tables? 😉


  3. B.B.,

    You said “So, I did something I am not proud of. I contacted the seller with the following message.”

    I think you should stand proud, by asking a reasonable question you got the goods you desired.

    The only possible downside to your inquiry would have been if he said no.

    If you do not ask the answer is always no.

    Mike


  4. I would have made a similar offer myself. That one looked just too good to let it get away. Original owner, great condition, the seller presented all the information I would want to see and looked very honest and it included all the things known in the guitar world as “case candy” to boot.

    Personally I’ve never had much luck with auctions. Most of the time for me they end up being a place where I can pay more than new price for a beaten-up example or I get sniped online by autobids in the last seconds. Actually the only success I can think of is when I bought my wife a cylindrical slide-rule in an online auction as a birthday present a couple of years ago. Even that one I only succeeded on the third try at similar items! My used airgun purchases however have all been via the Canadian Airgun forum so far. That’s straightforward member-to-member sales and I’ve dealt with some really great guys – but if you’re looking for something less common you may have to wait quite some time before anything comes up.


  5. Funny Story
    I out bid someone on eBay for a German Getrag transmission and transfer case located in Texas. Touch and go down to the last seconds, but it turned out to be in worse condition than mine.
    I contacted a transmission repair shop, in my small section of town in CA that just happened to specialized in these transmissions and they had a rebuilt one for sale.
    When I exchanged the core I mentioned that I just got it from a junkyard in Texas on eBay to which he replied,
    “So your the one !” 🙂
    Bob M



  6. You made a fair offer and the seller accepted. A meeting of the minds was achieved. If it had been a ‘penny auction’ – the bidding starts at a penny- the sale would have needed to be conducted entirely on the open electronic auction site. Any auction with a reserve opening bid is just an offering of goods. The ‘opening bid’ is mere ether upon the electronic airwaves. The meeting of minds occurs when a buyer places a bid acceptable to the seller. Gavel price can be above or below the ‘opening bid’ and within or without the auction bidding structure. The only possible cheat here, is that Tom Gaylord used his name and a promised blog review to enhance his monetary bid. Intangibles such as that are present everyday in commerce. No big deal.

    BB-
    Congratulations and I look forward to your review.


  7. I personally don’t like auctions.

    If it is something I want, I want to be able to buy it. Not play a game to get it.

    If I don’t win the auction then I’m not happy. Why put myself in that position.

    Buy it now is what I like.


    • GF1,

      Agreed, I’m not interested in playing a game either.

      For something special, I’ll deal one-on-one with someone I know. Otherwise I prefer to do business with a reputable dealer. IMHO, there are just too many scams going on to take a risk just to save a couple of bucks.

      Hank


      • Hank
        After reading more certian comments today I see why I don’t like auctions.

        If there wasn’t auctions maybe people that would really appreciate getting a gun would be able to get it instead of all this other bull.

        To me it’s like robbing in a sense.

        What can I say. Just the way I feel.



  8. B.B.,

    Salesman’s mantra, “If you don’e ask, you never hear ‘Yes’.”

    I asked a striking blond lady to dance, though I was a clumsy oaf on the dance floor. She said “yes.” Still dancing after 54 years.

    Nothing wrong with asking unless there’s undue pressure being brought to bear on the seller. The seller is free to reject the offer.

    Dan



  9. BB ,

    I see this happen allot in the gun trade with guns listed on Gunbroker . I have had it happen to Me buying parts or guns for parts. Some guys will sell broken or damaged guns this way , just like gun shows . This way They do not have to pay a gunsmith to fix them . Another worse case scenario is the part is no longer available , now it is your paperweight . Mike has a rule at the shop , if it is up for auction with a bid It does not get sold to a walk in !! This has upset some people especially lately due to the crunch , but Mike has a loyal following because He will not close auctions on people and sometimes they go for a lower price at the auction and someone gets a good deal , fair to them as a buyer and fair to the shop . I always tell people that at least with a dealer they will refund or repair if something is wrong . As far as I am concerned all internet auctions are ” BUYER BEWARE”

    Gene Salvino



  10. BB, I wish you were left handed. It would be much easier for me to buy airguns from you 🙂 . I would love to have a lefty 75. I have done what you did several times on E-Bay. I do it on items I think are priced too high and often have been relisted several times. I have had a lot of success making unsolicited offers. I have also done that on classified adds on several forums, Facebook Marketplace, and Craig’s List.

    My messages have been very similar to yours. I just politely introduce myself, tell the owner why I value and appreciate the product they have for sale, and make what I feel is a fair offer. I tell them I completely understand if they wish to ignore my offer, and good luck on their sale.

    Many people undervalue politeness, and in the jungle of classified adds, politeness is often a breath of fresh air for a seller. When I pick up an item I am often told that the item belonged to a departed family member and that it is comforting to know that it is going to someone that will appreciate the item like the original owner did.

    David Enoch


  11. BB

    Enjoyed this unusual report. Looking forward to see what has to be done to bring velocity up to normal.

    Thanks for the tutorial on internet auctions. Reader comments are interesting too. I’ve never bid before and think I won’t.

    Deck


  12. B.B.,

    Obviously you found a special item offered by a very special owner/seller. Your asking questions paid off as it often does.

    Over my 21 years of online bidding and selling, I have stumbled upon a number of dishonest practices. But sometimes what looks like something being “worked” actually is probably innocent, even if a bit maddening. Yesterday I bid quite seriously on an item (not an air gun) on ebay. It had been up for a week, gradually getting bids from several folks. As ebay’s procedures allow for sniping, that was my plan. With 5 seconds left I made my only bid, an increase of 20% over the highest standing bid. I was outbid and did not win the item.

    But what was interesting to me, although not at all unusual with online auctions, was more than 20 bids had been made with half of them by the same bidder in small steps. This is a telltale sign of shill bidding, but the bidder’s feedback suggested to me that he was honest and simply an unsophisticated ebayer.

    The winner bid slightly more than what I would have felt comfortable paying, so I have learned to take results such as that in stride. I have developed a philosophy that does not allow any competitive tendencies I might have to take over. A degree of detachment is an excellent defense mechanism.

    Congratulations on a fruitful purchase.

    Michael



    • Michael,
      Yup, that’s the way ebay auctions work. You see an item you are interested in purchasing at auction, you then make your bid. The auction may be for 7 days but you will notice that most of the bidding in within the last few hours. People sit and wait to see how many people are interested before they bid. You have to decide the maximum you are willing to pay for the item, then don’t go over that amount. For example, if an item starts the bidding at $10 and you are willing to pay no more than say $25, you watch the bidding and when the auction is close to ending, you make your final bid. Then you see the bids incrementally increasing by $.50 until the the maximum bid is achieved. Ebay automatically bids on your behalf until your maximum is met. If other bidders stop at $18.00, you will win the auction with a bid of $18.50. But it doesn’t really get interesting until the last few hours of the auction. I’ve bought, and sold, on ebay with good success, but you do have to know how it all works.
      Geo


  13. I know of a guy who shot a Diana 75 in the TN State Field Target Match. He shot in the WFTF springer class so he was able to range find and click with his scope. I recall it being a very windy day but he was still able to score a 23/60 and I remember him taking down a target at 50+ yards. His Diana 75 was shooting about 610 FPS if I recall correctly.

    Brent


  14. BB,

    Awesome!

    I remember at the 2010 Roanoke Airgun Show, you and Mac had tables around the middle of the room. A dealer on Mac’s side had a real nice Diana 75 for sale. Mac kept trying to get me to buy it. If I had the money, I would have. They are beautiful air rifles.

    I could not swing the 75 because I had just bought my Izzy. No regrets. 😉


  15. Good on you b.b.
    I particularly agree with his line of thought…he now knows a quality piece is going to someone who will appreciate it rather than someone who really has no idea what a classic he is getting.


  16. B.B.
    What has happened to me several times in the past on GB, is I bid on an item, I hold the highest bid right up to the very end, then boom, bidding storm and I get out bid. I’m not usually able to be at the PC when this happens. I have been there once but it went “out” of my range at that point.

    Doc


  17. Michael,
    There are free sniping programs that you can use on eBay to place a last 5 second bid on an item. The one I currently use is Gixen. There is a pay version, but also a free one. I input the item number and my maximum bid and then just forget it. It works well. if there are several people using sniping programs you will miss items though.
    If you win, you get notified both by Gixen and eBay. Sometimes I get an item for a low price and other times I am way outbid which is fine if they want it that badly.

    David Enoch


  18. “In scripture we are told to be wise like the world and that’s what I think I have done today.”
    B.B.,
    I concur; plus it looks like a divine appointment in that not only are you getting exactly what you wanted (which is also much to the benefit of all readers present), but the kindly owner (besides getting a very fair price) is also getting a deal where he knows that the rifle is going where it is meant to go (causing him much happiness).
    Yes, it’s a win-win deal, for sure; and I am looking forward to the report on that rifle.
    Take care & God bless,
    dave


  19. BB
    Sounds like your guy you got the gun from is a good sales person.

    Your always suppose to make your customer feel good about the deal.

    Either way he ended up with the money in his pocket.

    What I wonder is how many readers would want to own the gun or hear about it on the blog.

    I bet alot of people will say that would like to have one after you report on it. The question is will they actually be able to get one. Maybe. But not that one for the time being anyway. This one got bought already.

    But I guess it will be good to hear about it shooting at 10 meters and maybe 25 yards. At least we will know if it’s capable if you stick to the normal routine.

    Can’t wait to hear about the gun I didn’t bid on. 😉



    • Fish
      Man why do you always post videos.

      Say what you got to say. When you post the video do you feel like your not saying what you mean? I would rather you tell me about it and get your opinion than watch a video.

      I guess I should watch the video. But wrong timing for me right now.

      I’ll watch it tonight at break at work and tell ya what I think.

      It seems that Gunfun1is in a mood today. Maybe I’ll be better tonight. No promises though.





            • Fish
              Done watched previews already of the bear videos.

              And the video of the hw 30 was way better than the bear videos.

              Oh and by the way I have owned 3 hw30’s and 1 hw50. They were all great guns.

              One of my 30’s had a black pepper laminate stock. A very nice handling and looking gun.

              And I would totally recommend a 30 for a person’s first air gun. And for a kid also. And my oldest daughter now owns the black pepper laminate stock hw30 I was talking about. She shoots it at her house all the time.

              If your looking for a nice to handle good quality springer to shoot inside or outside the hw30 would be the gun. I don’t think there are many people that would argue the point.



  20. B.B.,

    I read this blog last night and your use of, and concern about, Scruples struck me as funny because:

    Another meaning of the word is “…a unit of weight equal to 20 grains, used by apothecaries.”

    So will you be testing this with 20 grain pellets?

    shootski


  21. Tom,

    If NO ONE had bid on the item yet, I don’t see how this is dishonest. I’ve purchased somewhere over 900 items from ebay over the last decade+ of time. The only times I’ve felt cheated, is having sellers cancel my winning bid because their items didn’t sell for as much as the seller expected and they refused to complete the transaction. Thats what minimum opening bids or reserve prices are for.



  22. BB,
    Congratulations on obtaining an incredible air rifle. I had a chance (probably 30+ years ago) to use a Diana 75 to compete in an Army Reserve postal match. The rifle was borrowed from another team member, and I probably shot the best that I ever have! I did not win overall, but ‘medaled’ in a couple of sections. After firing several hundred pellets (provided by the Army), I decided that this was the finest rifle that I had ever had the pleasure to shoot.
    The 75 does all of the things that I could ever ask for in an air rifle. It is supremely accurate, the trigger is incredible and the action of shooting is what every springer aspires to – a solid thunk (no recoil), followed by a hole in the target at the exact point you were holding.
    I would love to have one, but it’s a little rich for my budget.
    I look forward to the review, and expect that you might well admire this rifle as much as I do.
    Thanks for my daily dose of good information.

    Bill


  23. B.B. and Readership,

    “Mechanics of Sale:

    The owner of the property has the right to control the sale until its conclusion.” In an auction that is when the gavel falls…or the electrons make it so.

    That in the USA at least is the fundamental fact of selling an item. There is a great deal that effects that fundamental but it would seem a degree in auction law is needed to understand the fine points. If you are going to buy at auction you had better know the rules of the auction house, the jurisdiction and the police powers it retains to itself.

    Best of luck!

    shootski


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