AirForce TalonSS
This report covers
Today I shoot the AirForce TalonSS for accuracy at 25 yards again, and this time I will not shoot away my aim point. I’ll also test the velocity of the rifle once more — now that I know not to push the bolt forward after loading a pellet! Let’s get started.
The test
I shot the TalonSS from 25 yards rested on a sandbag. Today I illuminated the dot in the center of the Meopta MeoSportR 3-15X50RD SFP scope reticle. That made it much easier to see the aim point.
I also cranked the reticle up 10 clicks. I tried five clicks but the pellets remained close to where where they were for the first two shots, so I adjusted the reticle up another five clicks. You may remember that I shot a pinwheel in Part 3 on my first shot and had to guess where the center of the bullseye was.
After filling the tank to 3000 psi I started shooting.
JTS Dead Center 18.1-grain
Ten JTS Dead Center 18.1-grain domes went into 0.609-inches at 25 yards. That’s slightly larger than the 0.557-inch group that was shot with the same pellet in Part 3. Apparently being able to see the center dot of the bullseye didn’t make any difference.
The vintage TalonSS put ten JTS Dead Center 18.1-grain pellets into a 0.607-inch group at 25 yards. Yes, eight of the pellets are in a much smaller 0.327-inch group but there were no called pulls, so the larger group is correct.
After seeing this group I thought about what I told reader Siraniko, that I thought that Crosman Premiers were the best pellet in this rifle. But since I hadn’t shot them in the 12-inch barrel in over a decade, I really didn’t know.What the heck — I shot a group of ten Premiers.
Crosman Premiers
The TalonSS put ten Crosman Premiers into 0.743-inches at 25 yards. Either Premiers aren’t the best for the 12-inch barrel or I wasn’t shooting very well on this day.
The TalonSS put ten Crosman Premiers into 0.743-inches at 25 yards.
Velocity test
That was it for accuracy testing. What I tested next was a string of pellets for velocity, because I had that one lower-velocity shot in Part 2 that might have been caused by me pushing the bolt forward after loading a pellet. Reader Doc Holiday asked me to show what I mean by pushing the bolt forward after closing it.
Okay Doc — Pictures. There is a locking slot on either side of the rear of the TalonSS cocking channel that the cocking handle is supposed to be rotated into after cocking and loading. Let’s see that now.
The arrows point to the locking slots on either side of the central cocking slot. After cocking the rifle and loading a pellet, the bolt handle is supposed to be rotated into one of these slots.
BB’s mistake
There is often a little room for the bolt to move forward and back within these locking slots. During the velocity test I must have I pushed the bolt forward when I should not have. Let’s look at that.
Here the bolt (the shiny black thing on the right side of this picture) is back as far as it will go. When the striker hits it the full force will be transmitted to the top hat to open the valve.
Here the bolt is pushed forward as far as it will go into the locking slot. As you can see, the amount of movement is very small. When the striker hits it the bolt has to move back to contact the top hat and open the valve. Some energy will be lost.
Think of croquet. If you want to send your opponent’s ball off and their ball is touching your ball you step on your ball and whack it with the mallet. The energy transmitted through your ball to your opponent’s ball will send it far! If the balls aren’t touching when you do this the other ball doesn’t move much.
I shot the rifle with the same Hades pellet that was used to test velocity in Part 2. Then it ranged from 807 to 840 f.p.s. across 34 shots, discounting the one anomalous shot that went out at 744 f.p.s. Today the velocity for 28 shots ranged from 790 to 827 f.p.s. with the same Hades pellet. Most of the shots were in the low 800s and by shot 28 I could tell something was wrong so I stopped the test,
I felt a strong puff of air on my arm with each shot, and it came through a heavy flannel shirt. Something has happened to my SS and it needs maintenance. Therefore I’m ending the test here and will shift over to a new SS next.
Summary
My TalonSS was new sometime in 2001. It’s given 24 years of faithful service and fired thousands of shots without requiring maintenance. It still holds air indefinitely. I will repair it, but now I’m shifting to test a brand new TalonSS. It will be interesting to see where AirForce Airguns has taken this model in the last quarter century.
Tom,
Just when things were going so well. Where could that puff of air be coming from? Breech seals showing their age?
Siraniko
Siraniko,
There are two small o-rings inside the bolt that I suspect have gone hard. We shall see.
BB
Tom,
Seems like an easy fix that you can show one of these days. Then you can do a shoot off between the old and new versions if there is any difference.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
That’s the plan.
BB
B.B.,
Hope your diagnosis is correct and the replacement goes without a hitch.
Now PLEASE use fresh O-Rings of the correct material for the task.
That may, or may not, be the “back in the day” OEM O-Rings!
shootski
B.B.
Bolts vs Levers,
Seems that levers work better everytime. How come everybody does not use them?
-Yogi
Cost? Tradition?
OP,
Nothing about the Talon SS says tradition….
-Y
OP,
The main reasons that side levers cost more is more parts are needed, and those parts must be adjusted properly to function and seal properly.
Yogi,
This from the man who uses neither.
I have shot and owned both. My newest purchase is a bolt action. The side lever action is often faster and easier to work than a bolt action, but it is less secure. I have had lever actions blow open before. Not frequently, but if not seated and adjusted properly, it can and does happen. I have never had a bolt action blow open.
BB’s issue is likely due to one of the O-ring seals around either the barrel or the valve stem no longer pliable enough to provide the proper air seal, allowing air to escape. A side lever can leak in the same manner or in other places that the AirForce air rifles do not have.
Yogi,
I have had the bolt blow open on a Daisy 990 pump/C02 (dual fuel) and a Benjamin EB 22 C02 bolt blow back. I know those aren’t high dollar guns.
Doc
Hmmm… have over a dozen airguns with side-levers and after umpteen thousands of shots never had one pop open when firing.
My Maximus bolt-action was a problem until I modified it.
Hank
Every bolt action rifle that I have ever shot(all borrowed, none owned)airgun or firearm had issues.
One guy said, “Just yank on it harder”. No thanks…
-Yogi
Yogi, for what it is worth, I have bolt action firearms and airguns. For firearms, I have a Remington 700 BDL with a plunger-type extractor. Eventually, the little tooth that grabs the rim to pull the empty cases out gets worn down and needs to be replaced, but that’s after thousands of rounds. The plunger spring that tosses the spent cases aside also may wear out. I also have a Mauser 98 with a claw-type extractor. In order to fling the spent cartridge aside, you do need to pull the bolt briskly rear-ward.
For airguns, I have a couple of Crosman 160 rifles.
Those bolts seem to stay put at the shot, but the bolt on my newer Crosman 362 seems to want to pop up at the shot, rather than lock down like the firearm bolt rifles. The other airguns like the Daisy 853 and the Crosman 760 simply slide back and push forward and are held there by some type of detent. At the shot, they stay closed by what appears to me to be the tension of the hammer spring.
Each version of a bolt action has its own manual of arms. And each needs to be used accordingly.
Of course springs wear out as do seals and pins, so no machine, airgun or firearm (or human, for that matter), is immune to wear. We can only delay the inevitable as long as possible….
:o)
Roamin Greco,
“…my newer Crosman 362 seems to want to pop up at the shot, rather than lock down like the firearm bolt rifles.”
Remote diagnosis: improper sized/material O-Ring(s) on bolt probe; billing to follow sepcor ;^)
On humans: “…or human, for that matter, is immune to wear.” Humans do have the ability to self repair some amount of wear and tear given proper nutrition, care, and exercise; unfortunately we are not among the creatures that can regrow appendages or most of our major internal organs. However, amazing progress is being made on artificial and genetic repairs and more will be in the near future. I count myself among the lucky ones with my Cataracts procedure which would have rendered me incapable of many day to day functions let alone precision shooting or flying!
Haven’t seen any UAV lately. I wonder why they hide in the daytime? Could it be mis identifications are all to easy for untrained observers at night? I used technology 50+ years ago that could easily identify and track drones at extreme ranges; i doubt we aren’t at least a little better today.
We are blessed by another round of MASS HYSTERICAL BEHAVIOR!
shootski
Yogi,
Doesn’t the lever just replace you fingers, hand, and arm?
What does the lever move in most airguns?
Isn’t it usually called a bolt?
Just sayin’ ;^)
shootski
BB,
As the Talon SS that I have is one of the “old gals” like yours, it is good to know of this problem from yours and to watch for such with mine.
I will also be most interested in where the Talon SS has gone today.
B.B.
Thanks for the pictures. They help me better understand.
Doc
BB, I mentioned once that I didn’t care for the way the hammer slides directly on the barrel with metal to metal contact in the AirForce guns. You told me that you thought there was a bushing separating the hammer from the barrel on later models. If you open the new gun up will you verify if there is a bushing separating the barrel from the hammer. I guess it is not a big deal since the system has been proven over several decades.
I also wonder if you feel the comparatively long distance the hammer travels before striking the valve makes the Talon harder to shoot. Since most of us reading the blog still shoot springers it would not bother us as compared to someone used to a quicker dwell time.
Thanks,
David Enoch
David,
I don’t find it hard to shoot at all.
BB
David Enoch,
I like this topic of reactions to the shot cycle!
The average human is able to react to the Tactile (touch) Sense the fastest of all our reactions and that happens in ≈ 0.15 seconds. In the shooting sports that is an eternity. The Auditory (hearing) Sense times out at ≈ 0.17 seconds and the Visual Sense at ≈ 0.25 of a second!
That is the average for all ages tested…i won’t touch on how age effects our reactions as many of us have very personal first hand knowledge in that area.
So what does this mean for airgun powerplant shot cycle lengths. It means that even with our fastest sense the Piston on a Springer, the Hammer Striker has finished moving and projectile on all of them has already left the barrel before we humans of any reaction time ability register that something has occured. As a matter of fact even at subsonic muzzle velocities the target already has an impact indication that we will eventually take note of; there is no magic that can alter these facts.
hth,
shootski
Shootski,
Just ready to send this when my daughter called and asked me if I noticed the helicopter crash near me. (San Diego East County) Sure enough, smoke cloud within sight. One seriously injured.
Are you aware of ‘Project Odins Eye’ research into military, notably Top Gun, pilots’ high-performance jets and brain damage sustained over years of G Force.
Could be the perfect excuse for any unusual behavior on your part. Look for the symptoms.
I use the stroke I had for lots of crazy things I may do. Covers everything !
Bob M,
Nope, first i have heard of this. I did a little quick search and found this in her Bio:
She holds an additional Masters in Nutrition and a certificate in Psychedelic Assisted Therapy through the Integrated Psychiatry Institute (IPI) out of Boulder, CO.
She reports being an NFO and F-14 Backseater that did mostly navigation… which isn’t what RIOs (RADAR Intercept Officers) do most of the time. The AVIACIONLINE article has a quote: “The Times interviewed Dr. Kristin Barnes, a former U.S. Navy captain and medical specialist in brain injuries, who piloted the F-14 Tomcat during her long career in the U.S. Navy.” Goes on to say: “According to an anonymous source cited by The Times, the project was reportedly initiated without formal approval from the Navy’s medical and aviation commands in order to urgently address a critical need and understand the magnitude of the problem. The same source suggested that senior Navy officials might not be fully aware of the program’s existence.”
My reaction…A HUH!
CLICK BAIT
I’m not concerned!
shootski
PS: Now where did i leave my Stims….
PPS: FOUND THEM! In Barnes’ front jeans pocket.
Nice work. Now I can ignore the G Force indicator in my car.
Wonder if a regular reticle with a red dot in the center would solve the missing aim point that troubles BB?
Bob M,
That’s another easy NOPE!
Maybe a Green Dot/Circle …Tom is colorblind to RED.
As far as the lateral G-Force indicator in your car i wouldn’t.
That excessive tight radius curve could result in permanently damaging more than your brain…FREE ADVICE…
When in doubt FIREWALL THE THROTTLE(S)…POWER RIGHT NOW solves anything is my moto…
Prompt Application saved my tail any number of times…Maintenance Control sure didn’t like me much on those occasions.
shootski = POWER
shootski = POWER
shootski = POWER
PS: Looks like a 206B
Shootski,
An American Eurocopter AS350-B3. Gotta wonder, how long was he flying low and breathing deep over the hemp farm? Was he checking out a small fire?
“Own the turns”. Selling point. In two years, I have yet to bust the tires loose in a turn, even at twice the limit.
I do love this car. ( ’22 Turbo Veloster ‘N’ ) I have total command of the suspension / power setting options on the steering wheel. It does not lean, and the seats keep me from doing so inside. A true driver’s car for an empty Hwy Road.
I don’t see exceeding what I have already accomplished in the future. It can outperform me. That paddle on the steering wheel with the checkered flag is meant for serious race car drivers on a track. It changes everything. And really gets uncomfortable to drive. The fourth level of performance, but it can be custom preset to the drivers’ desire with a double tap.
Eco, Normal, Sport, Nurburg Ring Racetrack and Custom “N”. Exhaust restriction and sound adjusted automatically or customized as desired…. Not suggested for use by young drivers. 😉
Bob M,
Sad for the driver. We always used our O2 masks for Sandblowers.
Love a car that handles well.
This time of year my “Street Slicks” have been replaced (you don’t have this problem) with Snow Tires. I must keep reminding myself to not go so deep into the throttle especially through curves until the Slicks go back on.
shootski
BB,
Where can I get the O rings for my TALON SS the older version?
Thanks,
Roy
Roy,
Call AirForce Airguns 877-247-4867.
BB
Thanks BB. I love your BLOG. I enjoyed you on the early AIRGUN SHOWS as well,I wish they would bring them back,I think they would be very helpful to the new shooters.
I’ve been shooting Airguns for over 20 years now and I’m happy to be able to shoot in my backyard now that I’m 80ish.