TalonSS with Spin-Loc tank.
Testing the new AirForce TalonSS precharged pneumatic air rifle – Part 1
Testing the new AirForce TalonSS precharged pneumatic air rifle – Part 2
Testing the new AirForce TalonSS precharged pneumatic air rifle – Part 3
Reviewing the AirForce TalonSS precharged pneumatic air rifle – Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
This report covers:
- Oops!
- Not 25 yards
- The test
- H&N Baracuda 15
- Quiet!
- JTS Dead Center 18.1 grain
- Round ball
- Summary
Today we look at the accuracy of the .22-caliber AirForce TalonSS precharged pneumatic rifle (PCP) at a longer distance. And today you get a twofer because after I shoot pellets I’ll also shoot .22-caliber round balls.
Oops!
I shoot from the master bedroom of my house, through the living room and into the garage. When Edie was with me and she wanted to walk through the living room she had to shout, “Cease Fire!” and wait until I told her the range was cold.
Not 25 yards
I measured the distance from where I shoot to the pellet trap box with a laser rangefinder and discovered it is only 21.5 yards—not 25. From now on I will report the distance as 21 yards.
I see that in the past I also reported some groups as shot at 21 yards. At some point I switched to 25 yards and it’s been that way ever since. My bad!
The test
I shot the rifle rested directly on a sandbag from 21 yards. I shot 10-shot groups with each projectile. I used the same pellets that were used in Part 3, so there will be some comparison.
H&N Baracuda 15
The first pellet I tested was the H&N Baracuda 15. The TalonSS put 10 of them into 0.215-inches/5.26mm at 10 meters in Part 3.Today the SS put 10 into 0.52-inches/13.208mm at 21 yards.
The TalonSS put 10 H&N Baracuda 15s into 0.52-inches/13.208mm at 21 yards.
Quiet!
This pellet was very quiet when it shot. I say that because the next pellet was much louder and the difference was noticeable.
JTS Dead Center 18.1 grain
The second pellet I tested was the 18.1-grain JTS Dead Center dome. In Part 3 ten made a group that measured 0.109-inches/2.77mm at 10 meters. Today at 21 yards the SS put 10 into 0.773-inches/19.634mm. The point of impact was dramatically lower with this pellet.
The Talon SS put ten JTS Dead Center pellets into a 0.773-inch/19.634mm group at 21 yards.
I will also note that the discharge sound with this pellet was significantly louder than the sound of the H&N Baracuda 15. With the Baracuda 15 this rifle sounds more like an Umarex Notos.
Round ball
Now we are set to test the accuracy of .22-caliber round balls at 21 yards. I said in Part 3 that I would shoot two 10-shot groups with this projectile but after seeing my first group I didn’t want to chance it.
The balls loaded deep into the breech. Let’s look at that.
The H&N lead ball dropped deep into the TalonSS breech.
One of the ten balls did not drop as deep into the breech as the others. If the group I shot was decent, I thought of returning to test some balls after sorting them with the pelletgage. But as you will see, that’s not going to happen.
The SS put 10 H&N lead balls into a group that is so large I could not measure it easily. Two balls went out much more quietly and dropped below the target paper to hit the pellet trap box. This 10-shot group is roughly 3.75-inches/92.25mm, top to bottom, and is also strangely vertical
The TalonSS put 10 H&N round balls into 3.75-inches/92.25mm at 21 yards.
Because of the vertical spread I didn’t shoot the second group that I said I would in Part 3. And also this group tells me that I don’t want to test the round balls in this rifle anymore.
Summary
Today’s test shows how accurate the new TalonSS can be. It also shows that round balls in a rifle may not be the thing to try.
My last word on the Talon SS today is this—it is a PCP that does not leak air, as a rule. It fills to 3,000 psi and my old SS held air fine for 24 years. If you want a reliable PCP that can change calibers easily and power levels over a wide range I think this is one to consider.
I still think they should incorporate a regulator to the bottle, at least in small calibers, like 25 and smaller.
It’s like they are rejecting new tech for no other reason than it makes sense.
Edw,
I need to bring this up now.
REGULATORS are NOT NEW.
Unless you consider something that has been around for at least three and one half decades or more to still be new tech.
That is how long i personally have owned and used them on/with one or two of my airguns.
shootski
Edw,
The USFT has no regulator and still gets many shots at consistent velocity. A balanced valve does what a regulator does without any technology.
BB
Edw,
I am going to get in here and beat on this dead horse some.
Maybe you should look at it this way. Regulators are to airguns what patches and upgrades to are to Windows and other software (aps) are. Rather than fix the problem, we just throw a patch on it.
They are also used by some to take insanely high air pressures and reducing them to what is usable for the sake of an increased shot count.
A well-made valve will do that also. Ah, but that’s part of the rub. That involves engineering. Besides, the marketeers can jack the price higher if the airgun has insanely high air pressures for higher shot counts and more parts for regulators.
Whatever happened to filling a .46 caliber air rifle to 600-800 PSI and getting 20 man killing shots?
I think that dead horse is dead now.
Tom,
Seems like the quality of the .22 round ball leaves something to be desired which could account for the varying results.
Looks like a regulator is added as a feature not as an essential element when the valve and hammer are balanced for the pressure.
Siraniko
PS Section Round ball 1st paragraph 1st sentence “Now were (we) are set to test the accuracy of .22-caliber round balls at 21 yards.”
Siraniko,
Fixed. Thanks,
BB
Siraniko,
The quality of most round balls does leave much to be desired, but that is not the only problem. The twist rate is something else to be given serious consideration. When you vary the length (and to some degree the mass and diameter) of the projectile, the twist rate very likely will need to change. Speed is another factor that many do not take into account.
This is the reason many companies that can afford to do such are starting to play around with the twist rates of their barrels to improve the accuracy of cast bullets (“slugs”) in their airguns.
B.B.
Whatever happened to your sound meter app? I would love to know what the db difference is for those two pellets.
What did the round ball sound like? Why is it a round ball and not a BB?
-Y
Yogi,
I don’t always use the sound meter and almost never when I’m shooting for accuracy.
The round ball sounded like any pellet—no difference.
It’s called a round ball because a BB is a specific size, usually 0.171 to 0.173-inches in diameter. Other sizes are called round balls.
BB
Yogi,
Yes, knowing the sound difference for the one quieter pellet would have been nice, but like I said, I wasn’t using the sound meter.
BB
BB
Those H&N round balls look copper plated. I have never seen them in .22. Obsolete? You might try the Gamo round balls that are still in production.
By the way is there a chance them being smaller than .22? Sound and scattergun groups sometimes indicate such a thing.
Bill,
They are 0.2165 to 0.218-inches in diameter—the same as the Gamo round balls. These seemed to be on the smaller side, except for one. Remember that most pellets have skirts that flare larger than the bore of the guns they are made for. Not so for round balls.
BB
Take this as one of FM’s crazy-uninformed ideas/delusions, but maybe round balls require some kind of wadding to shoot accurately unless perhaps one uses leaded ones that fit tightly into the bore.
FM,
Think black powder rifle. The twist rate on one of those things can be 1:66.
When FM was researching and learning about the blackpowder gun world back in the Neolithic ’70s, he came to the conclusion round balls were more trouble than the effort to shoot them was worth and he figured if “minny” bullets were good enough for Johnny Reb and Billy Yank, they were good enough for FM. As long as he wasn’t the one being struck by one, of course. Conical ammo was alway used in the Zouave rifle-musket happily retired in Casa FM; maybe need to bring it out of retirement for a final performance or performances.
If instead FM had decided to go with say a Brown Bess smoothbore then of course he woulda had to learn to play ball and deal with the flinty side of things.
FM,
I have lost my lengthy replay to you. Sorry.
Sorry you went through the effort for all that – have learned the hard way and more than once to copy text typed here before triggering the “Post Comment” button. Quirky, just like some airguns.
FM,
I did not even get that far. I was still attempting to type my reply when it just disappeared.
ILOVEWORDPRESS! ILOVEWORDPRESS! ILOVEWORDPRESS!
BB, shootski and a few others,
I truly am sorry but that dead horse just does not seem to want to die. It seems that some are convinced that you have to have insanely high air pressures and a regulator to have a decent PCP airgun these days. It is the velocity wars of the sproingers all over again.
Now that Gamo has continued to follow the Jack Webb business model and snatched up what was left of TCFKAC, we can probably forget about the 3677, much less any other “low” pressure airguns.
Ah well, at least I have my “old gals”.
If there is demand for a “3677,” then folks will modify at 3622 and start selling them. Then perhaps Gamo, the company that now owns Crosman (GTCTNOC?) will add it to the lineup. After all, Gamo has itself come out with new models and new versions of older models, too. Here’s hoping!
A few others? 😉
RR,
Just to present the other side of this discussion (argument?) to people not too familiar with the workings of a PCP…
The volume of the reservoir, the pressure of the air in it and the design of the valve determines the usable shot-count for the airgun.
Unregulated airguns are limited (by the valve) as to how much pressure they can work with, and, because the pressure is dropping with each shot, the number of usable shots the PCP is capable of for a given volume is less that that of a similar regulated airgun.
In a regulated PCP, increasing the pressure in the reservoir directly increases the shot-count (to a certain design and practical limit) and because the “excess” pressure is adjusted to suit the valve, the usable shot-count is again increased.
Increased shot-count between fills is nice for us lazy people, and with a regulated PCP not having to closely monitor the reservoir pressure is a bonus. 🙂
Then there’s the discussion about valves… for another time.
Happy Monday!
Hank
Hank
Not just “Happy Monday”, but happy St. Patrick’s Day. A lot of people forgot about it being on the 17th because all the parades were over the weekend.
Tis a day that makes everyone want to be Irish. (or have a bit of the Irish in them)
Erin Go Bragh!!
ED
ED,
Not me.
Vana2,
Since we are still in need of a STRONGER FLOGGING*….
What Hank says is basically factual to a point. For those more interested in POWER, aka muzzle energy that is determined by a combination of rate of flow from valve to barrel, barrel volume (therefore final pressure at projectile muzzle exit) and projectile Mass. We could cover all this in depth but it would take at least a book length dissertation.
The comparison on the basis of shot count as discussed in Hanks Reply is faulty in the assumption that a regulated gun will provide a higher shot count…the facts may support a longer relative shot count string at the same muzzle energy but not the same, or higher, TOTAL energy budget over all shots within the acceptable range of performance.
“Increased shot-count between fills is nice for us lazy people, and with a regulated PCP not having to closely monitor the reservoir pressure is a bonus. ” I have NO “argument” with this statement of Hank’s. I use an external adjustable regulator when i tether my Big Bores to gather data and tune their valves, TP, and Hammer/Strikers for a given projectile.
No insult intended to Hank, or FLOGGING*, just got to keep the “…people not too familiar with the workings of a PCP…” as informed as possible.
Put out your snakes, put out your snakes!
Happy Saint Patrick’s Day!
And to all a good night.
shootski
* However, in British legal terminology, a distinction was drawn (and still is, in one or two colonial territories) between flogging (with a cat o’ nine tails) and whipping (formerly with a whip, but since the early 19th century with a birch). Sadly…In Britain these were both abolished in 1948.
Sadly, for whom?
;o)
Roamin Greco,
That is the question.
Since typically when a punishment is withdrawn from the Justice System arsenal of dispositions on a sentencing the outcome is either a harsher punishment or a less harsh punishment becoming the available choice.
The sentence of Flogging was often referred to as Half Death. The number of folks who died while being flogged or immediately thereafter is quite high; but nowhere near 100 percent as with the Death Sentence. The lesser substitute punishment is typically Life Imprisonment.
So it depends on if you as a criminal want to walk free once you have endured the flogging or if you prefer to be caged for life.
You must choose for whom the sadly applies…the criminal or the society.
Flogging the regulator vs the balanced valve debate is one that we airgunners must endure, sadly, from now until the Day of Deliverance.
There is a place for both metering methods but it (your choice) must be based on an informed choice NOT based on Marketing Hype or faulty/incomplete knowledge.
shootski
PS: The last Flogging was carried out, in the USA, by the State of Delaware in 1950.
Hank,
The truth is that folks are the limiting factor as to how high a pressure a valve can work with. Have you ever tried to cock an air rifle with the valve set to work with 4500 PSI? You had better eat your Wheaties.
You did hit upon the key word though. Lazy. Too lazy to fill an airgun repeatedly. Too lazy to find the top of the shot curve. Too lazy to keep track of how many shots they have taken at the top of that shot curve. Too lazy to take care of that “old” airgun, most especially when they can just throw it away and get what the marketeers say is the “latest and greatest”. “Besides, I am a much better shot with my video game than I am with the real thing.”
P.S. As I have stated before, I had a Talon SS that reached the top of the shot curve at 1900 PSI and would get over twenty good shots before I needed to refill it. It was very hand pump friendly. I did not even own a compressor until I went regulated big bore. Pumping up an airgun to over 3000 PSI is a lot of work.
RR,
Yup, lazy!
Use a chainsaw instead of an axe; an outboard motor instead of rowing; heck, I’m so lazy that after decades of shifting I now prefer an automatic transmission.
Exciting times, always new stuff to look at!
Hank
RG,
Buying a 3622 and converting it to a 3677 myself is not out of the question. It would not be difficult to do as all of the parts necessary are already available.
RR,
Converting a 3622 to a 3677 might be a tougher project to accomplish, going forward. The ‘accumulated’ companies don’t seem to be as interested in providing parts as Crosman used to be. (and it sounds like the number of staff at the former Crosman is shrinking, rapidly)
Bill
billj,
There are many companies who will gladly supply the necessary parts. That was one of the good things about TCFKAC. They liked to use swappable parts. There are parts all over the world if you care to look. The 3622 was made from the same parts as the 2240. They were also used in the Disco/Maximus/Fortitude group and in previous models. They are also the same parts as in the 367 and 362. If TCFKAC had not been swallowed up by Gamo, they would have likely brought out with the 3677 this year, though here in the USA the .22 pellet does seem to be more popular. We do seem to like big, Big, BIG!
“I shoot from the master bedroom of my house, through the living room and into the garage.”
Wow, BB!
Your wife was WAY more understanding than mine!!!
Instead of shouting “Cease fire!” my wife would likely say something like:
“You had better NOT be shooting through our house OR I’ll shoot YOU with the gun you got ME!” 😉
Blessings to you,
dave
Dave,
That sounds like Mrs. RR. The only time I am allowed to shoot my airguns in the house is when some critter she does not care for finds its way inside.
RidgeRunner, I hear you, man; sorry for the late reply; my wife started chemo on the 18th, and that’s taken up all my time.
Dave,
That’s cool! I am really sorry to hear/read that. You just do what you need to and do not worry with us.
Thanks, RidgeRunner; she’s on the kind of focused chemo where you just take some pills everyday; so far, they seem to be working well…thank God! 🙂
Amen.
Thanks, man; she just saw a 29% reduction in the number of cancer cells in her blood!
Praise the LORD! God is good. 🙂
Dave,
Awesome! May the Lord’s blessings continue!
The .22 ball Plainsmaster pistol
Info on the .22 ball’s accuracy with the Talon SS is not too encouraging, even if I do manage to increase the fps with a new CO2 cartridge.
The picture on the pistol’s original box has someone shooting the pistol using both grips and shooting from the hip like a Tommy Gun. That, combined with non-adjustable sights, leads me to believe the design was not intended to be a target shooter but a fast (?) shooting plinker. The trigger likes to function with a long quick pull, instead of a controlled deliberate release… no stage two.
I will definitely be shoving some pellets down the barrel to compare accuracy with them or consider a .177 BB barrel swap if possible.
I removed the forward barrel mounted plastic imitation wood and attaching metal grip and it sure changed the weigh distribution, balance and handling. Looking forward to shooting it again know. I believe that extra weight was jerking the pistol around after the trigger was pulled.
Just dawned on me. I actually do have at least somewhat of an elevation adjustment if I slide open the rear sight / loading gate some. That will definitely help, a lot, considering how low it shoots.
Bob M,
That screw below the rear sight just might allow some rear sight adjustment.
By the way, that Plainsmaster is a nice looking pistol.
RR,
Well I’ll be!
It certainly looks like there is some adjustment there. A bit unusual, but it works. I thought it was a solid chunk, but the sight plate has some independent side-to-side movement, and it’s locked down with that screw. I thought it held some sort of tension spring to hold it in place and prevent it from sliding off. It just might do both as well.
No up and down movement obvious, but a hole can be elongated, most of the time. Need to look into that and perhaps, even read the manual.
Made my day, thanks. And there is no doubt it was designed after the quintessential Colt Woodsman.22LR pistol once the front grip assembly is removed.
Bob M,
That screw is reminiscent (big word for an Appalachian-American) of what is used on Webley air pistols. You loosen the screw and hope you get the rear sight adjusted to where you want it.
Why would an 18 grain pellet be louder than shooting a 15 grain pellet. I would have guessed the opposite. Do you have other data on the FPS of each?
R Scott,
All I know about pellet velocity is in Part 2. I have no other data than that.
BB
Well, weird that the faster pellet was quieter. But even the quiet pellets were 100 db or higher.