by B.B. Pelletier
The Tech Force Contender 87 is a big, powerful underlever.
Well, the first moment of truth has arrived for the big Tech Force 87 Contender. I think you’ll be surprised at what it did. I know I was.
Cocking effort
Remember in part 1 that I said I thought that the cocking effort of this rifle was at least 40 lbs.? Well I measured it this time. There are two distinct parts to the cocking effort of this rifle. The first is the mainspring compression and the second is when the rifle is setting the sear. When the lever is pulled down and back, the spring force builds rapidly after the halfway point. The force required to complete the cocking stroke increases to 39 lbs. just before the sear is set, then it stops. But it takes 43 lbs. to set the sear in a very definite second step. So make no mistake about it, the Tech Force 87 is hard to cock. And new owners are going to have problems with this until they acknowledge how the rifle works.
However, the rifle gives back what is put into it in terms of power. How much you ask? Well, let’s see.
Crosman Premier lites
The 7.9-grain Crosman Premier averaged 993 f.p.s. The velocity spread went from a low of 975 to a high of 1005. That’s 30 f.p.s., or a little faster, than we like to see. However, in a brand new rifle, it can be overlooked. At the average velocity this pellet generates 17.3 foot-pounds of energy.
RWS Hobbys
The next pellet I tested was the 7.0-grain RWS Hobby. They averaged 1151 f.p.s. at the muzzle, and all shots were supersonic. The range went from 1148 to 1161 f.p.s. At the average muzzle velocity, this pellet generated 20.6 foot-pounds of energy. That’s no small trick for a spring rifle!
Beeman Kodiaks
The last pellet I tested was the Beeman Kodiak. The pellets I used are from the newer batch and weigh 10.2 grains. They averaged 955 f.p.s. with a low of 948 and a high of 961. That made them the most consistent for velocity. The average muzzle energy was a stunning 20.66 foot-pounds, proving that the Tech Force 87 is one of the big boys. All of a sudden, 43 lbs. of cocking effort doesn’t seem all that bad.
Firing behavior
Throughout all the testing, the rifle remained smooth and calm, as though it has been tuned. I remember that the Tech Force 89 Contender felt the same when I tested it, years ago. I don’t think you’ll be able to criticize the firing behavior of this rifle.
The trigger is two-stage with a somewhat vague first stage and second stage start point. But stage two breaks fairly clean at 5 lbs., 6 oz. It feels like less because of the size of the rifle and the smoothness of the firing cycle.
In the next part, I’ll test accuracy, and I’ve already heard from one reader/owner who says the scope stop won’t hold against the recoil. So, I’ll press a BKL mount into service and still use the scope stop the rifle comes with. That’s a belt-and-braces approach that just might solve the scope-walking issue forever.
Hi, I have a question about the article you wrote…sort of.
I bought a RWS 34p in .22 cal from Pyramydair in March of this year. 3 months later, my brother bought a Benjamin 392. We ran out of the pellets that we bought from Pyramydair about 2 months ago, and have been buying the Crosman Hollowpoint .22 Hunting Pellets from Walmart.(until Christmas hopefully;-)
We don’t have a chronograph to check the fps of the two guns, but have a pretty good idea that the Benjamin is shooting right around what it is supposed to (685 fps). So one day when on a long dirt driveway, we both shot at the same point of reference in the sky. When we measured the distance each pellet went, the Benjamin went roughly 275 yards while the RWS went roughly 220 yards.
Since then, I’ve been noticing that the Benjamin is hitting harder and my brother even said that the RWS is shooting slower than than his Benjamin.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks,
-Conor
Conor i have a D34 22 cal and all i can say is -this gun is a strange bird, but velocity should be the same with these pellets (Crosman Hollowpoint about 14 g i think ) 685 fps maybe little more. If you think that spring is causing you problems take the stock of and look inside the chamber spring should be in one piece last time mine was in 4 pieces,i am not saying that spring is broke it is just a first aid until somebody smarter than me arrives to the blog 🙂
Without a chrono it is hard to tell. You should not expect either gun to shoot as fast as advertised with the pellets you are using, but the 34 should be faster of the two.
Has the 34 been left cocked for extended periods of time?
Any funny crunching noises when cocking?
Does cocking effort seem much lighter than it was?
There have been reports that Dianas have been coming from the factory pretty dry of lube. This can cause all kinds of mayhem.
There are a lot of things that can cause a gun to shoot slower than the real velocity range expected.
Leaky breech seals, bad springs, and bad piston seals come to mind.
twotalon
twotalon -we wrote exactly the same things 🙂 now i gotta buy you a beer ! 😉 🙂 !
Only if it is good beer. None of the nasty stuff.
twotalon
“Has the 34 been left cocked for extended periods of time?”
>Not longer than 10 min.
“Any funny crunching noises when cocking?”
>No
“Does cocking effort seem much lighter than it was?”
>Uhhh….yeah maybe, but I was probably just getting used to it?!?!?!?
Thanks,
-Conor
Conor the reason he asked you does the cocking effort seem easyer is becouse of possability of broken mainspring ,your gun is 8 months old ,well mine was 2 when my spring broke so you can preform check just by taking a look through the chamber and if spring is in one piece all is fine ,don’t use any oils on your gun especially near piston seal and you’ll be fine
Spring fatigue maybe ?….you need to share with us how old your gun is ,have you ever change main spring inside the gun ,have you ever left your gun cocked over night or for prolonged period of time ….have you checked breech seal for leaking air ? ….
Hi Milan,
>”Have you ever changed main spring inside the gun?”
No it is only 8 months old.
>”Have you ever left your gun cocked over night or for prolonged period of time?
No longer than 10 min.
>”Have you checked breech seal for leaking air?”
Not sure what you are talking about?!?!? I looked at the seal where you put the pellets in at and it sticks out a hair but barely.
Thanks,
-Conor
Conor
Vince is right check the link that he sent you it is simple and he helped me with my 34 .I think that this will solve your problem 😉 becouse if everything is ok like you said (ok exept velocity 🙂 ) then it can be ,it is probably breach seal…
Ok BREECH seal- it’s too early over here,i need coffe ….
Conor,
I agree with Milan. These two rifles are shooting pellets at roughly the same velocity. Don’t rely on just one test. Here is another. Get some modeling clay, at least three inches thick and shoot both rifles into it. The depth of penetration should tell you which one is faster. Back the clay up with a solid surface like a board and be sure to wear safety glasses when doing this.
B.B.
Hello!
Thanks everyone for the info!
No I have not left my rifle cocked for over 10 min at the longest, cause when I load the pellet, that means a bird is dying! 😉 We farm juice grapes so we have plenty of thing to shoot at to test the impact of the pellets and found that the Benjamin shooting at a old glue can will go through both sides @ 25 yards whereas the RWS will go through one side and make a dent on the other side.
Thanks,
-Conor
Conor you can make ballistic jello and then compare those two guns here is the link http://www.myscienceproject.org/gelatin.html
/blog/2008/4/shimming-a-diana-breech-seal/
I’ve found it to be a common problem with the 34’s.
Man i love this gun i don’t have it but i love it, it is like this song from Gun’s and roses “You could be mine “(but you are not ) .Well i have to return back to Earth and ask-next time when i disassemble my 34 can i sand(with sandpaper:) ) piston to pick additional few fps,or is it just big lost of time ?
I meant to wrote “big loss of time ” sorry
B.B.,
The trigger seems a little heavy at over 5 lbs. Can it be adjusted down? If not, do you think there might be an after market replacement for it. From your description, even though the trigger is heavy, it’s fine. I guess it all comes down to the overall shooting characteristics.
Vicor
Victor,
The trigger IS adjustable for pull. I shoot so many military guns that five pounds seems about right to me. But there is a way to adjust it lighter, as well as adjusting the trigger position.
Since I didn’t include this in the report, how about if I do it in Part 4?
B.B.
B.B.,
Part 4 would be greatly appreciated! I like this rifle, and the price is right. Knowing how well it performs is a huge help. It’s always exciting to know that you’re getting the most bang for your buck, and so far this rifle looks like it will deliver.
Thanks,
Victor
Victor,
I was replying to the Webley Alecto, not the TF 87. The TF 87 doesn’t have an adjustable trigger and five pounds is pretty good for a rifle. It’s crisp enough to not matter that much.
B.B.
Oh, OK. I agree, 5 lbs is not an issue, if it’s crisp.
Yes, still interested in more info on the Alecto. Looks like a fun gun.
B.B.,
I just realized that this rifle exceeds it’s spec’s with the RWS Hobbies. That’s the first time I’ve seen that. Manufacturers normally make claims that they can’t even keep with PBA ammo.
Based on what you’ve described before regarding speed, this rifle shoots too fast to be accurate enough for field target competition, unless you use the heavier Beeman Kodiaks. Sounds like this would be better as a hunting gun in .22 caliber. What are your thoughts?
Victor
Victor,
I would never recommend the TF 87 for field target. But for hunting, it’s just about right. Yes to .22 caliber.
B.B.
OOPPsss,
sorry BB, I had that comment open for a hour or so, while I got caught in a phone meeting…. so I didn’t see your NO FT comment… but still.. Maybe the PA site needs to be adjusted or you could give it that test just for the hell of it! A starter FT rig is needed… it doesn’t have to make a top shooter out of a newbie.. most folks starting out wouldn’t hit 50% with the best of rigs… I know.. I’ve done it and tried to help and let other newbies use championship rigs.
And us match directors are trying to make courses so the first target per lane can be had fairly easily. .. at least on half the lanes:-) So if the gun shoots decent, it could be a starter rig one can own and still compete in maybe hunter class to start
Wacky Wayne
Victor,
If your considering the Field target game, you might consider starting out with a PCP like a Marauder, if you can afford it. The PA website says the trigger is adjustable on the TF87, so let’s see if BB can get it lower… AND how the accuracy is on this beast. It’s weight might be good for FT.. next report is the big one! I hope Tom can try weighed CPH 10.5 in it too.
The PA site also says it’s accuracy surpasses the more expensive guns… HHMMM let’s see.. Maybe BB can shoot them (his TX200 and this TF87) head to head at 25 yards… and or.. better still 50 yards ..if we want a FT potential report.. I might buy some for the rifle range at that price if the claim is only part true!
Wacky Wayne,
Match Director,
Ashland Air Rifle Range
Wacky Wayne,
Match Director,
Ashland Air Rifle Range
Wayne,
The trigger IS adjustable. And I will show that in Part 3, the accuracy report.
But this is no field target gun. Imagine trying to plink with a 300 H&H Magnum. This gun is a roaring monster, power-wise, and not really suited to field target. Also, the cocking would wear you out by the end of a match.
B.B.
OK..
Thanks Tom..
So, why didn’t PA send you a .22 cal? 🙂
Wacky Wayne
Wayne,
They were out of them.
B.B.
BB.
Would it make sense to have Vince tune ( 900fps with 8.4 gr or 850 with 10.5 which ever shoots better) it down to a decent cocking effort??? is it a good enough platform??
WAcky WAyne
Wayne,
Let’s wait until I shoot it for accuracy.
B.B.
🙂
B.B.
That is pretty hot for a .177…..particularly surprising with heavy pellets.
That gun might be great in .22.
twotalon
B.B.
A very good article indeed. Sometimes one has to learn something new about simpliest things ever. I remember a guy who was able to make his groups one and a half times smaller and more regular, just because he began to put his finger on a trigger right way.
Grains of sand make a desert.
However I’ve got a question about deep seating and rise in speed for low-power springers – can it be explained just by decreased friction?
I mean it saves some power needed to cut grooves on a pellet, so it can travel along rifles like the train rolls along rails. And that also explains better shots consistency – by pre-cutting pellet one discards speed deviations coming from variable pellets’ density, very sensible on low power.
Well, that also rises a question of bigger dead volume, however I think that pre-cutting gives more than slight increase of dead volume takes.
duskwight
I just ran a test on a low powered springer…Marksman 0035.
8.4 Exacts and 7.9 cp were used . 5 shots to warm up.
Firing behavior was more harsh with the lighter cp, and with seated pellets of both kinds. The cp seated harder.
exacts
unseated…….seated
563 …………..551
570……………559
571……………552
570……………556
566……………552
cpl
539……………539
540……………529
538……………532
531……………527
534……………524
twotalon
twotalon
Hm, that’s interesting, but I think – predictable 🙂 Your rifle is slightly above 500 fps range, so unseated pellets allow a bigger pressure buildup before moving and the higher the pressure – the more the importance of dead volume, unseated pellets make lower DV. CPs are known to be tight.
As for me, I would rework (if needed) rear of the barrel for a snug fit, but taper rifling a bit, to allow smoother entrance. That’s the thing my barrel guru told me and it seems that barrel god spoke through his mouth 🙂
However B.B. also mentioned another VERY important thing – proper handling of a pellet, allowing to insert it without risk of deformation. I’ve seen a guy using a sort of a ring with a “talon” on it, to fit pellets into his D-54 breech.
duskwight
Both kinds of pellets either fell in flush or a hair below, or only needed slight thumb pressure.
This gun is little used, so I will not fool around trying to improve it.
For seating them I used a tool I made for my talons that has a 1/8″ rounded nub with a small washer that sets depth consistently.
twotalon
duskwight,
You bring up a question I’d like answered in more detail. It is difficult to fit pellets into my IZH-46M. Wad cutters are very hard to get into the barrel. Domes go in reasonably well but sometimes even they catch on the edge of the hole. It’s like the edges are too sharp. You mentioned reworking the hole in the barrel. Is this something a rookie like me can do? How much of a risk of damage is there in doing this? What kind of tool would be used?
BTW, I made my first foray into a competition pistol match (and even won the lucky drawing for a $10 gift cert from PA). I just got the results of last week’s AirgunArena air pistol 20/20 eMatch and I took fourth place with my IZH-46M. Ha! Ha! I really did take fourth place but it was last place because there were only four entries. Winner 176, me 144. That’s a 32 point spread between me and first place. Three of the pistols entered were IZH-46Ms, the other pistol was an FWB P-30. The winner was using R10 MATCH 7gr. I was using H&N Match Pistol 7.45gr. There’s a new match going on now. My goal: Gotta beat 144 for now.
-CJr
CJr,
I think you’ll find that the bore on an Izzy is just a little undersized for a true 4.50mm pellet. I had much the same trouble and shifted to a 4.49 H&N from PA, and loading instantly became easier. Also the groups improved slightly.
pete
CJr,
All I’ve got is to second Pete, albeit with minor additions.
First, tight insertion is normal. Tight doesn’t mean beating it in with a hammer, but If a pellet bangs inside barrel like a nut in a bucket I’m afraid it’s not quite target pistol. Wadcutters are hard to fit, as they have wide heads, so that’s quite ok.
Second, 46’s barrel is really tight. And Pete is absolutely correct – YOU must find your perfect pellet for your pistol, as every pistol and every barrel is individual. Test it on chrono, if pellet from a well-working pistol travels @ circa 130 m/s it is OK, there’s no excess friction. I would try JSB Match Diabolo for air pistols – they are good soft lead, very uniform and light, excellent for single-pump pistols and they are available in 4.49.
Third, concerning barrel entrance tapering.
This sword has two blades, and you are just one of them 🙂 Guys that make 46s eat their bread for some skill. It is very unlikely that they would make a mistake.
Now let’s get to you.
Unless you feel yourself a capable airgunsmith and have done it before on some other airguns, I strongly won’t recommend you do that. There’s a real chance to ruin everything.
Tools are quite simple though: a _very_ fine sandpaper and a sharpened pencil as a base, or a copper pencil-like rod and a _very_ fine polishing paste. Steady hand and a feeling of measure is a must. You must “drill” the barrel entrance with the rod using your fingers. “Featherlike” is way too heavy for this job. Your task is to remove some hundredths of mm from a fresh-trimmed barrel, to give it a slightest taper. And then a _very_ good washing in dry kerosene or light oil, to remove all the abrasive.
duskwight
duskwight,
OK. You’ve done enough to scare me out of it. Thanks for protecting me.
I appeal to you gurus (especially Mr B) one more time:
This 46er does not like me. I shot 25 pellets through it today and now it won’t shoot anymore. The very next shot locked up the gun and now it won’t fire at all. I cocked it and tried a few times to get the bolt upright but could not get the bolt to go all the way upright. I closed the bolt and it fired. I cocked it again and the bolt went all the way upright but now after colsing the bolt it won’t fire. I’ve tried recocking and reclosing the bolt but it still won’t fire. It’s locked up.
Any suggestions?
-CJr
You may have a linkage problem. This has never happened to me, so I can’t give you an informed answer. Check all the pivot points in the linkage and check that all the pieces of metal are straight where they should be straight, etc.
And you might have to think about returning it for repair.
pete
CJr,
Again, I must second Pete. If I could see and touch it myself – perhaps I would say something, but not this way. Properly handled and properly cared Izh-46 is a sort of “eternal” airgun. There’s a very slim chance of factory defective work, but who knows. I would recommend showing it to a qualified airgunsmith.
duskwight
duskwight,
I agree with you on this. And twotalon, the gun you tested was too powerful. Try it on one that shoots 100 f.p.s. slower.
B.B.
That’s the weakest springer I have.
twotalon
B.B.
I was almost ready to tell Twotalon to try Izh-60 with its basic 120 m/s but I realized that there’s yet another interesting topic.
A dependence between pellet position relative to air channel and power/accuracy issues.
That, perhaps, can be a nice addition to your article, as there are quite many rifles with side air feed.
duskwight
B.B.
Can you give me your e-mail address. I finally have the pics I promised you on the accuracy of my TF87-22.
Pete,
Contact me at blogger@pyramydair.com and I will get back to you.
B.B.
BB,
You said in part 1 this is an AR 3000. Is that similar or a knock off of any Beeman gun?
pcp4me,
This is a unique rifle. I’s not a copy of anything.
B.B.
BB,
So let me get this straight. The quality of this gun is excellent, the firing behavior is like a tuned gun, the power is exceptional for a spring gun and all for only $189.95?
Wow, seems like the Chinese ARE catching up with the German and Spanish gun makers! And now you tell me this is not a knock off on any other gun? The Chinese are now designing their OWN guns?
Holy moly! What is this world coming to?
BB What would your advice be upon receipt of these Chinese rifles re: cleaning, dis-assembly (as needed), polishing, lubing etc etc? Basically, getting as close as possible to finishing stds. from the US or Europe?
I have no direct experience with the Chi-com guns other than AKs which were made from old metal stampings and full of dirt and grease (circa 1969 AKs)
I’m guessing that cleaning and polishing is required on the TF87 only based on the info I have seen on the Chi-com gun sale websites where they “clean, inspect, lube and test fire for safety” before sending gun to you! (oh ya, they check for bent barrels too!)
Brian,
With other guns the disassembly and cleaning with lubrication must be considered in the buying decision. With the TF 87, I don’t think you have to do that. Of course you can always make a good gun better, but right out of the box, this is a good gun. So, for the guy who just wants something that works and doesn’t need all the special attention, this would be it.
B.B.
That’s a hard one to answer, and depends a lot on the rifle. The cheaper Industry brand models – well, I’ve seen some that didn’t really want to function until I went through them. But by the same token I’ve also had that happen with an RWS 34, a Gamo CFX, and a Benjamin Legacy.
In general a good policy is to try it and see how it shoots. If it performs well out-of-the-box, then there’s no reason to rush into a teardown.
B.B.,
The last two sets of pellets had a fps spread of 13 fps (even though very different velocities), but the first of 30 fps. Had you re-shot the first set again, it sounds like you might have expected that spread to be tighter (and thus more accurate).
Also, regarding how hard it is to cock, hardness would bother me less with an underlever than a break-barrel. It would be easier to get more leverage with an underlever, I would think.
Victor
Victor
Leverage depends on the length of the lever. The longer the lever, the more force can be exerted. Underlevers seem to have shorter levers overall, as compared to breakbarrel counterparts. So an underlever requires more force to cock.
Obviously, you are right about leverage. More length is better. However, I still prefer the CF-X (underlever) over the Quest 1000x (break barrel), as far as cocking goes. Overall, I appreciate the Titan the most. It’s very smooth in every respect.
Thanks,
Victor
Any one,
Can some one tell me where I can get an inexpensive adapter for a 44 cu ft carbon fiber SCBA tank to female foster at the end of a hose.
And please don’t direct me to Joe Brancato. He makes wonderful stuff from all I hear, but wants $170 shipped for that and after sinking $250 into the tank I can’t afford that right now. Might could swing $90 but not that much!
Thanks all!
pcp4me,
If you haven’t done so yet give PA a call and talk with Boris. Also you could give Van or Martin at AirHog a call.
Bruce
BB,
I’m not surprised at all by the velocity — in fact didn’t I predict something like this :)? The chamber on the AR3000 is at least and inch longer than on the 36-2, and that rifle will sling some lead. I’ve got to get me an 87 in .22. I bet the trigger adjusts down a lot — 5 lbs. is probably the factory “safe” setting. I wonder if it is as oversprung as the stock 36-2. If so, a replacement spring will bring down the cocking effort without reducing power too much. Can’t wait to see accuracy testing, although I can tell you right now that Hobby pellets are most likely going to keyhole. Finally, There may be a few others, but this is the first springer I can recall in a while being able to fling CPH’s at that kind of velocity — should be useful.
Instead of CPH, I should have said Kodiaks — I was just looking at the weight. However, that brings up a point, I think: Perhaps CPH’s and/or other heavy pellets should be tested for accuracy as well. Both the Hobby and CPL’s are probably too light and fast for best results. The accuracy is the big question mark. My 36-2 has shot 0.15″ groups at 10M with common wadcutters, and I feel that I was the limiting factor there (sitting position), but accuracy depends on the barrel, and Chinese QC is known to be spotty.
BG_Farmer,
Well, I’m going to test the TF 87 at 25 yards. A rifle this powerful needs to reach out for hunters.
B.B.
BB,
25 yards is right. I just quoted my results at 10M, because that’s all I seriously tried on — actually I was pleasantly surprised given the velocity and the mediocre grade of pellet (Crosman Copperheads) and open sights. Normally, it is just my plinking rifle, and it is reasonably accurate to 50 yards (even beyond), but I don’t really enjoy shooting groups as much as animal silhouettes, small cans, walnuts, etc., so that’s what I do :). What I don’t know is if “most” rifles are more or less accurate than this one, as there seems to be a lot of variability. If the 87 is comparable with suitable pellets (they’ll have to be heavier than the Hobby or in .22), it seems like a good choice for some of us.
B.B.,
I did a quick test with the TF87-22 this afternoon. I purchased this gun mainly for hunting and pest control so I am more interested in accuracy and power down range. I stacked 3 lids ( Tuna Cans ) and taped them to a sandbag at 21yards. Using WH FT Special 15.0gr pellets and 5 warn up shots, number 6 shot was on the money and easily passed right through all three lids.
The RWS 350 Magnum, using a 15.6gr Silver Sting, has a muzzle rating of 22 ft lbs and at 25yds the pellet is still putting out 13 ft lbs so my guess is that the TF87-22 would be in that ft lb range also at 25 yards.
shot the 2240 this afternoon. But the CO2 did not come out as it normally does. It appears to be stuck. Is there a safe convenient way to unstick the cartridge?
Stuck cartridge: Try cocking and firing the pistol with the endcap off. If this fails, try using one of those magnets on the end of a telescoping rod, (Harbor Freight sells them cheap.) If this still doesn’t get it out, put a small dab of epoxy on the end of a chopstick, stick it to the cart and let it cure.
After you get it out, blow out the tube with shop air, or a shopvac on reverse. Check your remaining carts for flaking paint and/or plating. Light work with fine steel wool will remove this, but make sure the carts are clean before using, since tiny steel wool fragments will toast your valve pretty quickly.
Hope this helps.
Harlod,
Tap on the round end of the cartridge with a screwdriver blade to unstick it. If you use Crosman Pellgunoil with every cartridge, that will happen less often.
B.B.
B.B.,
Unrelated, maybe related? I have never had a stuck cartridge, always use P-oil. I was looking at some of my spent CO2’s and noticed a vast difference in the size of the pierced hole. What would cause this irregularity? Does it effect performance? Is it how much I tighten the screw? This is a 2240, modified barrel.
rikib
rikib,
Yes, how much you tighten the cartridge will affect the size of the hole. Actually it affects the depth that the piercing pin enters the cartridge, and the pin pushes metal out of its way, so the hole looks larger.
B.B.
B.B.,
Thanks, I’ll make sure an tighten as much as possible in the future.
rikib
I can’t resist. To quote the psychotic villain in “Dirty Harry”: “My that’s a big one.” Just as there are circus contests for who can swing a hammer hard enough to hit a gong, there should be some kind of contest on who can cock the biggest springer for the most number of reps.
Victor, regarding projectile orientation in flight, minimization is the right idea, but I doubt that it is limited to gradients or lagrange multipliers. In the latter case, there’s no way you could name all of the constraints operating in such a complicated situation. That’s why the pros who wrote that paper I looked at did a certain amount of hand waving.
The Mann book that B.B. mentioned has done all the legwork of experimentation, but his writing needs work. It helps if you are a gun buff and know a lot about the old calibers that he uses.
Matt61
BB,
Are the Tech Force air rifles still using leather seals or all of them ( including the 87 tested) using synthetic now ???
David,
Some of the cheaper rifles may still have leather, but most of the Tech Force models are synthetic, including the 87.
B.B.
I am trying to find the rules for air rifle competition at 10 m but I am getting lost in the NRA and ISSF websites. I am trying to get in the Airgun Arena e-matches. Can someone post a direct link to the rules?
Yours, confused as usually
T.E.
TE,
The rules for which kind of competition? Three-position or straight ten meter?
There is a huge difference, and the ISSF governs the 10-meter rules.
B.B.
TE,
Here is a copy of the ISSF rules that I found. This is probably not what you’re looking for unless you’re planning to start up an event.
http://www.issf-sports.org/theissf/rules/english_rulebook.ashx#/1/
I went through it twice but could not find any references to gun type, gun size, or trigger weight. Maybe if you look through it you’ll see something.
The only rules I know of for airgunarena matches are printed on their web page and the scoring pages. http://www.airgunarena.com Click on eMatch competitions in the lower left side.
All pistols and rifles are welcome. You’ll notice the rifle bench rest competition has a rather unique way of scoring but for 10m I think it is fair.
Go to the eMatch Scores page and look for the event you want to see more details.
Basically, the important rules are be honest in scoring and don’t use a scope (or any magnification) unless the event says you can. Non-magnifying red dots are welcome, lasers – not. All pistol events are standing, one hand unsupported. All rifle events are standing, offhand, except the bench rest event.
Pick a day to shoot, shoot, and enter your score info. When the match expires all scores become available to see. If you win anything Bill Clarke sends you a message.
-CJr
TE,
I forgot to mention all targets are downloadable and printable from the main page.
I hope you decide to join in. Even if you dont win the match you might win the lucky drawing. It’s also a good way to see what gun is hot and what pellet is working.
-CJr
TE,
I downloaded the ISSF rule book zip file and extracting it made a pdf file which is much more readable that the web site.
If you do that, go to page 283 and it covers a lot of the stuff you might be interested in. It does get into clothing, blinders, gun dimensions, etc.
-CJr
I have a Walther Force 1000 (AR1000?) with the same, almost worthless scope stop that the TF87 has. Is it possible to drill a scope stop hole in it or does the mechanism not allow for this modification. Obviously I would be using a scope ring with the stop screw in its base. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks!
Beeman makes a scope stop, do a web search for it. It is basically a scope ring with no ring and it also has a pin for a stop hole.
You would have to know how thick your compression tube is before you could drill it but… even then, I would not attempt this without that knowledge and a precision drill press, depth gage, etc. A badly done drill hole in a compression tube could permanently ruin your gun.
Actually, it’s not that hard to do. A bolt-down scope stop would have its hole drilled well behind any sliding parts inside the tube, so there would be little danger of actually damaging anything. You’d want to completely strip it down, of course, before drilling and tapping the hole. And you’d want to test-fit the stop screw, trimming it so that it is just about flush with the inside surface. Lastly, you’d want to clean it out before reassembly.
The stop itself can be made from a curved piece of scrap steel, or perhaps you could get one from Crosman (I believe some Quest variants used a stop like this)
Don’t remember the screw size normally used, I’m tempted to say 4mm.
Toby T,
Here’s a couple alternatives:
This is one I used on a Ruger AirHawk that bucked a lot and it worked great.
/product/gamo-scope-stop-rubber-bumper-11mm-dovetail?a=267
This one I have no experience with:
/product/beeman-scope-stop?a=688
-CJr
Toby,
If you do decide to drill the hole, be sure to first disassemble the powerplant and then to clean out the chips after drilling. That way nothing bad enters the clean lubricated areas.
B.B.
Thanks everyone for the input. Not having to drill a hole in it would be favorable. The rifle shoots surprisingly well, both powerful and accurate but the scope shifts and pushes the stop along with it. I will give your ideas some thought. Thanks again. Toby
So I got my marauder back from crosman after getting some warranty repair work done. They changed the valve and now it works like a champ again. The issue that I am having now with it was non-existent when it was sent is the bolt. Now every time I pull back in the bolt, I can feel it grinding and rubbing up against something on the inner walls of the receiver. The screw that holds the bolt in is all the way in. I contacted crosman again and spoke with a tech; he ended up sending me a new bolt but after swapping them out, it had no or little effect. Could a part be loose or missing inside? Any direction would be much appreciated, thank you!
Lee,
Your problem could be caused by many things, most of which are impossible to diagnose over the internet. I suspect a lack of lubrication on the striker, but be careful to not overdo it.
B.B.
Thanks for the help, how would you go about lubing the striker?
Lee,
It would require disassembly, but I assumed you intended doing that anyhow. If you don’t know how to domit, I recommend that you talk with Crosman owners before tearing your rifle apart. First of all, my diagnosis may not be right and second, you don’t want to get in over your head.
I’d advise that you post your question ion the Crosman Forum and see what they say:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/275684/
B.B.
thanks a lot! I have no issues in taking something apart and putting it back together correctly. It is better to ask questions first to gain any insight, tips and tricks first before just ripping it apart and finding out that it was not necessary to begin with.