Air Arms Shamal: Part 2

by Tom Gaylord, a.k.a. B.B. Pelletier

Part 1

Shamal
Air Arms Shamal is an attractive PCP. It was Air Arms’ first precharged rifle.

This report covers:

• Trigger adjustments.
• Discovering the maximum fill pressure.
• Shot count.
• Velocity with various pellets.
• Discharge noise.
• Loading.

In this report, we’ll discover the Shamal’s pressure curve, which will be instructional for all who are new to precharged airguns. As I mentioned in the first report, this rifle didn’t come with a manual; so when I got it, I had to discover the pressure curve on my own. I did, and it turned out the rifle wanted an initial fill pressure of 2,600 psi. That was on the gauge that was on the fill device that came with the rifle — the device that I no longer have. I need to find out where on the gauge of my carbon fiber tank the needle wants to be when the rifle is full. These small pressure gauges are not that precise, so the number could be off by several hundred psi. Also, the gauge on my carbon fiber tank isn’t marked in hundreds of psi. There will need to be some interpolation involved.

More than a decade has passed since this rifle was mine. I’m not sure where it’s performing today. So in all respects, this is a brand new air rifle to me. That will benefit you if you want to look over my shoulder while I do what needs to be done.

Trigger adjustments
Before I get into that, however, I first want to address the adjustable trigger. Shamals haven’t been around for a long time and there isn’t that much written about them. I want this report to serve as an owner’s manual for all who get one in the future.

The Shamal came with two different triggers — a standard one that my rifle has and an Olympic trigger that sounds more adjustable, but which I know nothing about. My trigger has 4 adjustment screws. From the back to the front (holding the rifle on your shoulder) they are:

1. The sear engagement (clockwise to reduce).
2. The first-stage travel (clockwise to reduce).
3. The first-stage weight (clockwise to increase).

and in front of the trigger:

4. The second-stage weight (clockwise to increase).

Shamal trigger adjustments
Trigger-adjustment screws: (1) Sear engagement, (2) first-stage travel, (3) first-stage weight and (4) second-stage weight.

When I tested the trigger with my electronic gauge, the firs-stage weighs just under 6 oz., and the let-off was between 12 and 14 oz. The first stage is long, which I like, and the release is as light as I like a trigger to be, so I’m satisfied with this trigger as it stands.

Discovering the max fill pressure
This is something that has to be done whenever a new gauge is used. I had data from previous tests that told me the fill pressure should be 2600 psi, so I filled from my carbon fiber tank to 2750 psi. That gave me the following velocities with the same 14.3-grain Crosman Premiers I used over a decade ago.

Shot Vel.
1     742
2    740
3    748
4    744
5    745
6    746
7    757
8    754
9    748
10   763
11   774
12  775
13   770
14   771
15   —-
16   772
17   —-
18   782
19   782
20   790
21   780
22   801
23   791
24   804
25   806*
26   793
27   800
28   799
29   801
30   —-
31   —-
32   782
33   788
34   778
35   775
36   775
37   769

*Fastest shot

The fill pressure at the end of this string was 1500 psi. This string tells me almost everything I want to know about this rifle. First, the fill pressure I used was way too high. I’ll fill the gun again to a much lower pressure and see where that gets me.

Shot count
Next, there are just under 20 good shots on a fill — down from what I thought so many years ago. I like the velocity that runs from 780 to 806 — a spread of 26 f.p.s. Looking at the curve for Premiers, I should start with shot 18, although the shot before that didn’t record, so I can’t be certain whether it was any good or not.

If I end the string at shot 34, I’ll get 17 full-power shots close to my desired range. What should the starting air pressure be? That’s solved easily.

I’ll guess that 2350 psi is the start point. I filled the rifle to that pressure and got the following results.

Shot Vel.
1     773
2     770
3     774
4     781

Okay, as the pressure inside the gun has decreased with each shot, the velocity has increased. The last shot was 781 fps, which is as low as I want the velocity to go on the power curve I’m willing to accept. The gun’s reservoir pressure has now dropped to the maximum pressure that will give me a velocity on my desired power curve (781 fps).

The velocity of 781 is at the bottom of the power curve that I have identified for this rifle. Since my last shot was 781, the rifle is now on the power curve. The pressure in the reservoir is now at the highest it can be and still give me the velocity I want. From this point on, as the rifle’s reservoir pressure drops, the velocity will either increase or remain stable. As long as it’s at 780 fps or higher, the rifle is on the power curve I’m looking for.

Now I can find the ideal starting fill pressure for my desired velocity range. All I have to do is start to fill the airgun, again. When the needle stops moving fast, indicating the fill hose is full and the gun’s intake valve has just opened, I stop the fill by closing the tank’s valve and look at the needle. The needle is pointing at the air pressure that is in the gun’s reservoir. I can see on the gauge that this rifle likes a starting fill pressure of 2250 psi!

To confirm that I’m right, I fired one more shot with Premiers. It went 781 f.p.s. Bingo! I’m right at the start of the power curve, with at least 16 more good shots in the reservoir.

I also discovered that the rifle performs very much the same as it did long ago. I’m using a different chronograph, yet the velocities from the late 1990s and today are within a few f.p.s. of one another.

The power curve I’ve accepted gives me an average velocity of 792 f.p.s., which is good for 19.92 foot-pounds of muzzle energy.

Other pellets
I will now test the velocity of other pellets, but I’m not going to shoot long strings and get the averages. I will shoot 2 of each pellet and take the lowest velocity of each pellet as the average for that pellet. While that’s not exact, it’s far faster than shooting whole strings and averaging. I know I’m on the power band for the next 16 shots; and if I use even fewer than 16 shots (4 pellets x 2 shots each = 8 shots), I can be sure that all of them are on the power band. The power band is the place where the velocity of any pellet will vary the least.

Eun Jin domes
This 28.4-grain Eun Jin dome pellet gave me velocities of 592 and 586 f.p.s. Taking the lower number as the average, I get a muzzle energy of 21.66 foot-pounds.

Beeman Kodiaks
The Beeman Kodiak pellet weighs 21.14 grains and gave me velocities of 683 and 680 f.p.s. That’s very close to the “magic” velocity of 671, where the weight of the pellet in grains equals the energy in foot-pounds. Using the low figure of 680 f.p.s., this pellet gave an energy of 21.71 foot pounds at the muzzle.

JSB Exact Jumbo Monsters
Next, I tried JSB Exact Jumbo Monsters — a 25.4-grain pellet. They gave me velocities of 584 and 611 f.p.s. Using the lower number, that’s a muzzle energy of 19.24 foot-pounds.

The bottom line is that this Shamal is a 20 foot-pound air rifle as it’s operating now. That’s what it was when I owned it in the 1990s. So, the rifle hasn’t changed, but the gauges have changed and so has my perception of the total number of shots that are available. So, this update was important to the operation.

Discharge noise
I don’t know what I was thinking when I reported the Shamal as a quiet air rifle before, but it isn’t. It sounds exactly as loud as a .22-caliber Benjamin Discovery running at the same power.

Loading
Someone asked about the loading room at the breech, and on this rifle there’s a generous amount. There’s no loading trough, so it’s easier to get your fingers behind the breech with a pellet. And all pellets load easily because there’s no rifling at the breech. Rifling doesn’t start until after the air transfer port, which is deep inside the breech. The bolt nose has a long probe that pushes the pellet past the air transfer port and into the rear of the rifling.

Shamal breech with pellet
That’s a 28-grain Eun Jin standing on the receiver. It’s one of the longest .22-caliber pellets around. As you can see, there’s plenty of room at the breech.

That’s it for this look. Next time I’ll scope the rifle and head to the range.

Shamal right

96 thoughts on “Air Arms Shamal: Part 2

  1. I made a good estimated guess looking at that first long string, and Im glad you described this pressure assessment like you did, it does show the formula in easy to understand terms. When I do get the talonp I’ll follow this route and have some great info right from the get go, which will be another month or two unfortunately, had to do grown up stuff with my big check today, I try to avoid that as much as possible, lol, but sometimes its the better way. I was undecided and wasn’t getting the whole setup anyway so its all good. I happy wifes a happy life! She’ll be buying the whole shebang real soon so had to make sure she owed me one, hehe… On the Shamal, Im surprised how long the useful shots run, even before the high run it was pretty steady around sevenfifty( numbers aren’t working ) and then the eighthundred string, then Id bet it would run at sevenfifty for a good long while after that. Now that is efficient air usage.. good report Tom, thanks for the tips!%%



      • Haha, sometimes things are just to intricate to explain, like the when she asked me how the sears and stuff worked when the np was apart, I eventually said “it just works” ( she doesn’t care that much about the guns) or how Im going to New Hampshire today with my father and I just said ” somethings going on Friday”, that ones got her mad at me right now actually! Lol, maybe things are better off explained…. hmmmm, lol


        • RDNA,

          I can tell you haven’t been married long enough to know that you are always wrong.

          Red Green says it best, when he recites the Man’s Prayer:

          “I am a man; I’m sorry, but I can change if I have to, I guess.”

          B.B.



            • You, miss, are a gem, and Tom and I are very lucky to have great women behind us, and he is correct. We have been together 5 years and with a long life ahead, god willing, I had better figure it out soon, Im running out of good excuses to pretend Im right, whereas knowing she’s right makes me right… hey! I found a loophole!



      • aside from all the numbers and shot strings and what not( i use pcp only for hunting, and ten shots a day is a lot, so i dont worry much about shot count) what a cool old airgun!!!!!!! another one that got away before i could get one i guess! i love the looks of it. very clean and no nonsense, but just a bit classy. kinda the same feeling as carrying a classic bolt gun on a big game hunt. and i bet it is a squirrel/ rabbit hammer! i am lovin it(though i hate mcdonalds! LOL)keep em comin BB, awesome stuff!


  2. It’s so good to see more info on the Shamal, as you said there is not a lot around and that’s exactly what i found. One of the things i did discover was that like the 100 series the Hammer tension is adjustable which is supposed to be for fine adjustment for different pellets under 12 ft/lb in the UK, it actually can take my .177 up to 17 ft/lb if i chose too and there is still room for more. So this leads me to wonder whether your Shamal has a heavier spring or a standard one that is adjusted up for the American market, and if you do have more adjustment what would that do to the power curve in any beneficial way.

    I also have an s410 carbine and as good a rifle as it may be it is not a patch on the Shamal, even with the Shamal having an air stripper and the s410 having an Air Arms silencer. I reckon the air stripper does a good job on noise reduction, could that be the reason your rifle is not as quite as you remember? Oh and thanks for the info on the trigger, mine is just how i like it but it’s always good to know how to change it. ATB

    TTFN

    Best wishes, Wing Commander Sir Nigel Tetlington -Smythe.


  3. Love that breech! Love that trigger! Love that stock! That is one sweet air rifle you got there! If it shoots half as good as it’s siblings, it is top shelf!


  4. A really beautiful gun, worthy of envy! So far it looks to be what every Discovery wants to be when it grows up! I always like reading about older, rare guns and dreaming. Sounds like a decent trigger too! I hate the lawyer trigger on my Disco… Someday it will get replaced.

    /Dave


  5. I cant get over how highly polished the medal is! Look at the reflection of the pellet on the medal.Impressive craftsmanship!


  6. I am new to the game. This is the first time that I have seen ““magic” velocity of 671, where the weight of the pellet in grains equals the energy in foot-pounds.” mentioned.
    How did this “magic” velocity evolve?
    Does it also hold true for strictly target shooting or is it more applicable to hunting?
    Another great post.
    Thanks
    Ron


    • Ron,
      That velocity is good for any projectile in any situation It’s a good speed for airguns and lower velocity firearms and possibly even a Super-crossbow with ultralight bolts,If there is such a monster in the crossbow world-Hint-Hint!

      Reb


    • The “magical number” is just a mathematical coincidence. Based on the formula:

      Weight X Velocity X Velocity / 450240 = Energy

      If you input weight in grains, velocity in fps, you get the resulting number in foot-pounds. By a mere coincidence, if velocity is 671fps, the resulting energy (in foot-pounds) will be numerically equal to the weight (in grains).

      Hope this helps (and I didn’t say something too stupid!)


      • Thanks for the replies.
        I tried plugging in some different weights into the chairgun software and was expecting to find different velocities for different pellet weights
        The 671 is indeed a magic number. It held true for different weights. Which leads me to further questions.
        Is this velocity the optimum velocity for accuracy?
        If it is then could it help to explain the search for the best pellet for each gun? Spring guns in particular have a fixed amount of energy stored for each shot so the only way to tune them would be to find a single good pellet weight .
        I was interested in the Marauder PCP because it seems to be adjustable for velocity and would be tunable for more than just one pellet.
        As I said I am new to the game and would be interested in any others thoughts on this.
        Thanks,
        Ron


        • The 671 velocity is just “magic” because you don’t need a calculator to know the energy.

          But “ideal velocity” will depend upon the pellet shape, the desired shooting distance /range/, and intent (plinking tin cans is much different from disposes of flying rats [starlings and maybe pigeons]). Distance range matters as an airgun bullseye shooter is only concerned about repeatability at 10 meters and doesn’t care if the trajectory nearly skims the ceiling of an indoor shooting arena as long is it is at point of aim at the 10m mark — OTOH, disposing of starlings may take place at distance from 20 feet out to 30+ yards, and having a flat trajectory means one doesn’t have to do range determination to keep within a kill zone (if you’ve played with ChairGun, pick a velocity, then adjust the scope zero point until it reports a maximum “point blank range” — this will be where the trajectory kisses the top of the kill zone at the mid point, and will extend a few feet out from the ascending and descending zero).

          The pellet shape will affect the ballistic coefficient, and that will affect how arced the trajectory is for two different pellets at the same initial velocity.



        • Here are some pellets that I ran through the chairgun software.
          All were at 671fps.
          Crosman Premier heavy 10.50 g 10.49 f-p
          Crosman Premier lites 7.90g 7.9 f-p
          H&n Crow Magnum 10.5 g 10.49 f-p
          Predator Polymag 8.2g 8.2 f-p

          I was wondering if I could expect similar accuracy from all of these pellets in a single gun IF I adjusted the velocity to the same 671 magic number.
          Would this give a PCP rifle an advantage over a spring gun? I haven’t ordered a Marauder yet as this is one of the key features that is leaning me towards it vs a gas spring gun.



            • Thanks to everyone.
              Sounds like a chrony and experimenting are the answer to my question.
              I appreciate everyones quick replies , they are helping this newcomer to understand and get started in this sport .


          • Ron,
            As long as price is not a major factor the Marauder should prove to be much more versatile than any sproinger.


    • Rongol,

      Welcome to the blog. I have written about the “magic” velocity in the past. It’s just a neat coincidence of arithmetic, but I find that if you know about it you can tell the power of an airgun, when it is in that velocity range. No calculations required!

      B.B.


      • Absolutely correct! once I got my chrony I hardly use calculators any more except for confirmation. Even I do it in my head.

        Reb



          • Oh Yeah! lighting can be a bit tricky but if I can just find my good LED lights I’l have it whooped I’s been too cloudy lately for solar use- El Nino kickin’ in? We could definitely use the rain here in Texas!

            Reb


  7. B.B. very informative! I can’t wait to start pulling my hair out while trying to figure all this stuff out on my own PCP and saving money on haircuts! Thanks for the scale reference photo. I’ll have to go back & find what you & RDNA were talking about as far as confusing terminology because it pretty much made sense to me.I woulda picked a slightly different curve, 770 is what my AM77 shoots,albeit in .177, and that’s fast enough for me and with this speed you’d get 24 shots however I’m not even new to this yet so I defer to your experience backed better judgement. It looks like even Hulk himself would be able to easily shove a pellet into that breech, the only problem loading it should be if one were to drop it, which could be a problem without a trough, but I like the fact that you can leave your fingers wrapped all the way around it right up til the end.I’ll definitely be using this as a reference when it comes time. Almost forgot that incredibly adjustable trigger- WOW! someone wanted everybody happy!
    Very nice gun! I’d be willing to bet good money on the fact that this one will be staying home for good this time, except for those hunting excursions! Will you be scoping this gun? If so I’d be interested in your choice of optics and why it’s your preference.

    Reb


    • Reb,

      You can “pick” what you deem the “ideal velocity” based on your other guns performance of using air and being accurate BUT for each pcp the ideal velocity to choose usually begins with the pellets peak velocity and this “power curve” straddles each side of this peak velocity. This is the ideal velocity for use of air and almost always accuracy as well.

      The exception to this in my experience is if the pellet is moving to slow or too fast. Then you need to decrease the velocity or increase the velocity and start over finding the power curve.

      kevin


      • Kevin,
        OK I kinda understand the part about the gun’s performance and air consumption but what determines the Ideal velocity of a given pellet in a certain gun-BC? Is this to be referenced or trial & error?

        Reb


        • Reb,

          Trial & Error = Experience. No substitute, no formula.

          In general, based on my experience with pcp’s, Daystate barrels can’t be pushed as fast as FX or BSA barrels. Air Arms don’t function well and the accuracy suffers when pushed too fast. Heavier pellets shoot more accurately at the higher speeds than lighter pellets.

          Could write a chapter to answer your question but don’t have time. Hope you get the bulk of what I’m trying to communicate.

          kevin


    • Reb,

      There is no one right answer here. I shot the Shamal at the range today and we will soon have a look at how it performs. I may want to tune this rifle a little different.

      B.B.


  8. Great review and a beautiful air rifle. An Air Arms rifle is on my “bucket list”. The Air Arms S-510, 30th Anniversary Limited Edition, has been tempting me for quiet a while. But, I am still having fun exploring the assets of my first PCP rifle, a synthetic stock, .177 Benjamin Marauder. If I can justify another PCP air rifle, it will most likely be an Air Force Talon SS, in .177 and a 24″ .22 barrel. Quietness and accuracy have been more important than velocity, since I don’t hunt with them.

    I would have never considered either the Marauder or Talon SS if not for B.B.’s extensive testing of both of them. I am quiet sure I would have been satisfied with my Co2 collection, my old FWB 80 and HW77.

    I live in a neighborhood where outside shooting is impossible. We are down in a canyon and the slightest sound is amplified and heard by neighbors. I have made do with shooting my air guns in my upstairs range. I had never given any thought to going to an outside fire arm range and shooting at longer distances. The extreme accuracy of both the Marauder and the Talon SS (especially with the 24″ .22 caliber barrel, is opening up a whole new world for me.

    I had a Chrony in my buy basket at P.A., but just noticed this morning that they were temporarily out of stock. Will wait for them to receive a new shipment and then will start my own testing of my Marauder.

    B.B., I hope the owners of Pyramyd Air, appreciate the impact you have made on me and I am sure the other blog readers. Before I discovered Pyramyd Air, and your blog, I was strictly a fire arms shooter / accumulator and only used my air guns for infrequent practice.

    Fire arm ammo shortages and high prices got me to thinking more about my air guns. A Google search and a discovery of Pyramyd Air and your blog, and I have pretty much put my fire arms away for the long term. I can truthfully say that every air gun I have purchased is one that you have recommended.

    In the last year, I have accumulated 6733 Bulls eye Bucks, and that doesn’t include what my son and my friends have purchased at P.A. Your blog, air gun reviews and willingness to answer questions, have had a profound impact on this 71 year old retired guy.

    My son, and I, look forward to meeting you and Edith at the Texas air gun show in September. Hopefully, we can meet some of the other blog contributors, too.
    Jerry


    • Jerry,
      Thanks for your commendation on PA,B.B, and this blog It is well deserved and has had a major influence on many of the decisions I have made recently! I’ve had an infatuation with airguns ever since I began saving for my first RedRyder!After I got it at 7 years of age I was still looking for more and the advertisements for “Beeman Adult airguns” of the ’70′s are still burned into my brain, although seemingly unattainable for a kid.I wish a lot more of my money would have gone in the piggybank instead of soda machines, but I guess that RedRyder helped me get here. I’m about to dive in headfirst and plan on sticking around for guidance, advice and just plain ole fun!
      Thanks again for the kind words,

      Reb


    • Jerry,

      I am a firearm guy, too. When I was in the Army I shot every week (my own stuff) and whenever the Army would let me run a range. I was out shooting today and shot as many firearms as I did airguns.

      The Texas airgun show in September is starting to take shape! Edith and I will enjoy meeting both you and your son.

      B.B.


    • Jerry,

      I don’t like to bother my neighbors either. I shot from inside the house into the backyard to get more range. I can get about 27 yds that way which is enough to challenge me and a house makes a great silencer. I don’t know if your house’s layout will help in that manner. I can see where the canyon would cause problems… I can get just over 32 yards across my back fence with my bow since it’s quieter and makes a different type of noise, but I don’t like to shoot my airguns out there unless I’m sure all of the neighbors are gone.

      /Dave


      • When I get my shed built at least one corner will be dedicated to my newest shooting bench,more for shelter from sun & rain, but maybe even cold and if I do that, noise won’t be much more work(I’ve already muffled my trap&almost all my neighbors are cops and have no problem with my hobby/sport as long as I don’t stay out shooting too late)

        Reb



    • Edith thanks. I was wondering if they were going to have a sale. I just saw it on the PA website.

      But I usually get a email notification when the have a sale. I was up this morning getting the kids to school and that was the first thing I checked was my email. No email about the sell. I will have to check and see if I got the email notification now.

      But anyway thanks again. Now I got to see if somebody left me some money to spend. :)


      • GF1,

        The email notifications are just now being sent out. They go out in waves during the day. However, I was notified early this morning that there would be a big sale, and that’s why I was able to post a link the minute they told me it was live on their site.

        Edith


  9. The Shamal has a very nice power curve. And that was their first try at making a PCP gun. No wonder Air Arms is still in business.

    And just curious. I don’t know if you said. What did the Shamal cost back when it was new?



      • Wow so that probably makes them even more rare over here.

        And another reason Im sure why people that have them dont want to get rid of them.

        And even more of a chance that I guess Im out of luck owning one.


        • GF1,

          We have the DVDs of his TV show and his one & only movie.

          Our friend Mac was also a big Red Green fan.

          When we lived in Maryland, the Red Green movie, “Duct Tape Forever,” had a big premier in a vintage Baltimore movie theater. We went with Mac and his wife, Elissa, to the premier. It was like looking in a mirror. We all looked alike — old :-) Lots of the guys wore red and green suspenders. It was a lot of fun.

          Edith


          • I’d love to have them all on DVD I got into it back around the same time that legal matters dictated that I stop hitting the local watering hole on the way home from work which was also my second coming to airgunning with my little Slavia.The prices for cable in Cedar Park negated that option. a third hobby was a Playstation &Gran Turismo, My next door neighbor used to come over for indulgence in all three! ahh the good ole days!

            Reb


          • Edith
            Sorry I didn’t get back with you earlier. But sounds like Mac, You and BB was something else when you all were together.

            No matter what happens to my body I hope I can always remember the good times that I have enjoyed in the past. I cant say no more about that.


  10. B.B.,
    I found some info on the Crosman 600! Google Chrome is down on my computer momentarily, so I tried the ole standby-Internet Explorer.This search rendered an article from 2010 by you. While it didn’t appear to have a whole lotta information about the workings of the gun, it seems that it is very lovable. I’ve still heard no mention of my favorite projectile,the lead round ball apparently the 400′s feeding problem is not shared (to the same extent)by this pistol.It also sounds like it is easily capable of 5fpe or slightly more. My repeating sidearm has been lying undiscovered for all this time?! While not inexpensive, I will be keeping an eye out for an affordable one.I am aware of the 30 round shot count. Does the trigger feel like single or double action? Is there anything else that you think I should know before taking the plunge?

    Reb


    • Reb,

      The 600′s trigger is one of its nicest features. It’s single-action and both light and reasonably crisp. If I had a 600 I would do a review for you. I almost bought on at the Findlay airgun show for just this reason (new airgunners who don’t know about it).

      B.B.


      • OK,now you’ve got my attention!I don’t think I’ve wanted to spend money I didn’t have so bad since I found my first car a $50-’73 Capri. Could you guide me to any other information or are you keeping it to yourself? ;) Just Kidding!


        • Reb,

          Just do some searches for the 600 online. You have read everything I have written on this blog.

          The 600 is often modified into a carbine with a bulk tank and a rifle scope. Mac-1 does a lot of those mods.

          B.B.


          • Thanks B.B.,Just realized It’s time to stretch my Glutes out along with the rest of me.Be back shortly.
            I’ll see if Google Chrome is back up but I kinda doubt it.We caught a Thunder shower that has me glad I didn’t pull a buncha stuff out to test again today .Been too overcast for good sun here lately & I can’t find either one of my good LED lights or I’d be testing out my bedroom window right now.IE may be antiquated but it still has it’s place.

            Reb


          • A longer barrel makes a lotta sense as a mod on this gun, and maybe some sight upgrades but I’d still want it to fit in a holster. Are there any target sights that will fit it?

            Reb



  11. B.B.,

    In Part 1 you said the Shamal was Air Arms first attempt at a PCP, but I didn’t see in the article what time frame this was. Were they made in the 80′s, 90′s or 2000′s?

    David H


  12. I’m a bit puzzled over something. The Crosman M4-177 has been on the market for a few years now. So exactly why am I seeing it in the new products?


    • John,

      When a new model is added to Pyramyd Air’s website, we also list it for a month or so as a new item. This will be on the new items page til 5/30/14. Just because an M4-177 has been issued before, it doesn’t mean that subsequent versions and variations aren’t considered new.

      Here’s an example that I think will make it very clear: The new Colt NRA pistol with aged exterior is the same gun as another Colt pistol that’s been available for some time. But we listed the NRA model as a new item for a month, even though the exterior is the only change.

      Same with the M4-177: It’s the same model on the inside as all the others, but the colors on the exterior are different than what’s been available before.

      Thanks,
      Edith


      • Thanks for the info. I also need to take issue with Crosman’s quality too. I looked at their AK and sat here shaking my head at the rather poor quality injection molded plastic gun. I really kind of expect more from “Made in America”. Crosman lost a faithful customer when I looked at what they offer and found their guns lacking in quality. Am I just spoiled a bit by wanting to see quality work? Or is this all America has to offer now?


        • John,

          I haven’t handled the Comrade AK, so I can’t comment on the quality. But when I see a gun for $69.99, I assume it’s not going to be a shining spire of magnificent workmanship. You need to pay more for that :-) A lot of what’s produced today is price-driven because that’s how many people shop.

          Edith


          • I actually would pay more for it if it was better stuff. I looked at the thing and my first thought was “How many months until it ends up in a landfill?” I want to see stuff that I say “Now that is going on my most wanted list.” For example, I recently helped a friend in Illinois get a Hatsan 135 in .25 caliber. He wanted me to run it over my chrony so he knew what it could do. I got it in my hands and I said,”This thing is really high quality. I need to get one too.” That’s the kind of quality I want to see. I saw it was $229. I thought it was quite reasonable for what I saw. I figure if I can get something like that out of Turkey, I should be able to see that or better out of U.S.A. We did after all innovate things like assembly lines, a $259 pcp gun which can be so much more, We invented nuclear power, automobiles and much more. But lately quality seems to be lacking on things “Made in America”.


          • And those that shop solely based on price rarely get other than what they deserve.
            Spend a little more and one needs not have to buy it again…nearly as often.
            Spend enough and you only have to buy it once.
            Think of whatever “IT” (the object at hand) is as a long term investment.
            Twenty, thirty or so years down the road, look at the really high quality binoculars, or watch, or knife, or rifle, or…whatever…that you forego lunch for however long it took to save, and pat yourself on the back and note It’s still there.


            • I hate to say this, but Im surprised at the narrow mindedness of these comments. There are a lot more airgunners that are having fun instead of making investments, don’t you guys remember being a kid? Everyone says how they mowed lawns and scraped up doing whatever back in the day to get an airgun, but now your over the beginner guns…. so they shouldn’t make them? How many kids are gonna flip if they get a Comrade for their birthday? Or Christmas? Now how many do you think would have that experience if it was all metal, high quality, 200$? Its about way more than valve adjustments and burl wood stocks, A Christmas Story? Plus those cheap guns keep the market broad, keep the companies turning a profit so they can develop new marauders and NP2s.


              • Hey, RifledDNA, I think the general theme this little interaction from Edith, John, and me is, “One gets what they pay for, save your money a little longer get something a little better.”
                Seems a little hard to justify such a harsh response against a pretty benign sentiment.
                Didn’t mean to push your button so hard.


              • Well said RDNA. If we want to interest the country’s youth in the shooting sports,, we have to make them available,, and affordable,, to them.

                And,, I make more on social security than three of the highly skilled turks who made the rifle you’re talking about. It’s about wages and costs of manufacturing. You try building that $100 pcp, here,, and see what you end up with.
                Ed


        • There’s always the 2100 & AM77 for Crosman quality but when receivers and triggers are built outta “Engineering resin” it’s time to start dodging and that’s how they keep the prices low. Ditto what Edith says above, it does take money to get quality.


          • I do like quality. And I will pay for quality. the AK is a good concept but that gun as exciting as the concept is just is not popping out and saying “Buy me” It’s saying Throw me in a landfill”.


            • John,
              afterI finised looking at this gun perhaps It actually means”Leave me for the Kid that wants the next new thing”.



                • John how much did you pay for your Air Force gun !?!

                  You know there is different quality guns and you know we have been here before.

                  What do you think about a Trex. You got one yet?


        • I was very tempted to order the Comrade, for the 70$, which isn’t much more then the other co2 bb pistols in plastic, it looked pretty cool. High capacity and 600fps in a mean looking little AK74 would make a day of massacre’in cans a ton of fun if I were asked. There all plastic now for the most part,except for replica specific types, so function becomes the question. If that AK reliably and consistently sends a whole mess o bbs as fast as it says, looks killer, and doesn’t break, plastic font bother me, otherwise it’d be 200$ and your losing fun to price ratio. Just my thoughts.


          • Musta missed the velocity specs. 600fps is very impressive but also very scary with BB’s! Like John, I guess I just never could see through the toyish plastic they have it wrapped in.

            Reb


  13. “Someone asked about the loading room at the brech,”

    I found a typo when I read this. I was a little surprised no one caught it before now… I’m pretty sure that should be “Someone asked about the loading room at the breech,”. Not sure anyone cares, but…

    Also Red Green was definitely amusing back in the day. What’s sad is I’m not even sure if it is still on the local PBS stations.



    • Alas the Red Green show is no longer available at no charge unless you look it up online. When I called in to offer my support they asked for my credit or debit card number.I told the operator how much I enjoyed the show but nothing much seemed to matter to them except $.Yes,I felt insulted and impotent and not long after that my favorite show was cancelled. I believe that our commander in chief(Obama) has effectively done away with free TV altogether. This was my first indication of what was to come under his administration. Needless to say.NOT HAPPY!

      Reb


      • A friend of mine awhile back reads some kind of veterans periodical, forget what it was called, but out of it he ordered this contraption that was supposed to grab the tv channels out of the air, Luke the old rabbit ears, and give you the stations and that the analog frequencies were still floating around in the air its just that cable scoops them up and makes you pay for em. Well he tried it, and in concept it worked, but he only got literally one maybe two stations.


        • They are still broadcasting. They have to if they want to keep the frequencies they lease from the FCC. They wanted to start broadcasting in a digital format,, so the FCC made them make available to people whose sets wouldn’t accommodate digital,, a little box to put on top of your TV,, along side your rabbit ears, if that’s what you were using,, to convert the video and audio signals to digital. It worked,,, kinda. Some said it improved reception,, kinda.

          Only needed for old sets, tho. You can still hook up rabbit ears and get “free” TV, if you want, without that box,, as long as your set isn’t older than 20 years, or so.
          ed


          • And very few “off air” channels will be found that are NOT Digital (mostly small neighborhood stations). All the main broadcast channels HAD to stop analog broadcasting by law — the typical analog channel uses a bandwidth that supports up to one HD digital and 3 SD digital channels.

            The converter boxes (I have three, but since the 15″ tube TV died, only have two devices that need it — a VHS VCR, and a DVD-recorder/receiver) took the digital signal, and downconverts it NTSC analog output. I’m fairly certain there were only a few wide-screen TVs made that do not have a built-in ATSC (digital US) receiver section (analog receivers may be gone, however).

            Most of the cheap adverts these days are pushing nothing more than UHF loop antennas because most everyone has replaced their TV with one that does have ATSC receiver, but people don’t realize that they have the receiver and just need an antenna to pick up the broadcast. The advert that really gets me is the one that run “… the FCC has mandated that broadcast stations must provide a digital signal over the air…” — when actually what the FCC mandated was the broadcast stations must STOP providing ANALOG signals.

            What the adverts don’t tell you is that those indoor loop/patch antennas are really only good for stations within about 10-15 miles. I’ve got something that is technically a small outdoor (a vertical figure-8 with a reflector grid) mounted on a truck bed pole (turned sideways and wedged between ceiling and bookcase) and depending on the weather have problems with most stations 30 miles away (which is ALL). Doesn’t help that my TV channel scan doesn’t have “add new found”, but only “wipe memory, start fresh” — as the transmitter sites are at four different angles, the antenna doesn’t see three sites.


            • Addendum:

              The biggest fear now is that the FCC wants to free up even more frequencies for paying cellphone companies — and suggests doing that by having broadcasters share transmitters.

              So after all the push to convert to digital (sold on the basis of HD quality), they now want broadcasters to drop down to SD quality to fit 5-8 low quality signals into one channel bandwidth.


  14. Wow!-Edith & B.B. I somehow got caught up in the Mem-Day Ad & somehow got locked into it for over 12 hours, after wading through a whole buncha computer scans, fixes & the deepest De-frag I’ve got I’m finally back!
    I don’t know if it’s just my computer or what could’ve happened but I definitely won’t be going back to it.

    Reb


  15. I hope everyone is having a nice long weekend. I have an open question. What is the most accurate springer or gas spring currently made? I kick myself for never getting an FWB 300 when they were still available. I am guessing the TX200. Not for 10 meter competition, more for bench shooting paper targets at 25 and 50 yards. I did see that there is a Diana 56TH that looks interesting. I can’t afford one, at least right now, but its fun to plan for when I can. :)

    Jim.



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