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Education / Training AirForce CO2 adapter is put to the test! – Part 2

AirForce CO2 adapter is put to the test! – Part 2

by B.B. Pelletier

Part 1

Well, you were certainly interested in the AirForce CO2 adapter! Judging from the comments we received, many of you see the the possibilities. As long as you are buying a PCP, it doesn’t hurt that you can make it into a great CO2 rifle as well. And, if you include the MicroMeter tank, there’s a third possibility from just one gun!

Before I jump into this report, a word to several readers who asked about adjusting the top hat of the CO2 adapter valve. Don’t do it. The adapter uses a Condor valve, which is already set at the maximum spacing for the average gun. CO2 isn’t as fussy about clearances as air anyway, so just attach the adapter and use it as it comes.

And to those who are concerned that the use of CO2 will possibly damage the seals in your gun, don’t worry. First of all, all the important seals are in the valve anyway. There are only two O-rings in the gun and they just seal the rear of the barrel. And AirForce makes the adapter, so they would use the right seals for CO2.

Shooting conditions
You probably want to know how it shoots. Well, the barrels are from Lothar Walther, so you have that going for you. The day I picked for the test could not have been better. There was zero wind and a light overcast that had been fog an hour earlier. I set an intermediate target at 30 yards to get the scope zeroed, and the real target at 50 yards for the record. Unfortunately, when I tested the Logun S-16s, the wind was blowing hard, so there’s no way to do a direct comparison between the accuracy of the two guns. I think they’re probably equivalent. The heavy Logun trigger makes it more difficult to shoot accurately, but the potential is there.

Talon SS
The Talon SS was already scoped and sighted-in for operation with air, so the switch was easy. I used an AirForce 4-16x scope, which is very bright for that power. The initial groups at 30 yards were as tight as the Logun S-16s groups at 25 yards, so I knew the rifle was going to do well. And, is it ever quiet! The noise of the pellet striking the cardboard box the target was taped to 50 yards away was louder than the discharge.

Talon SS with a CO2 tank. Call it a quiet SS!

The scope was mounted in B-Square AA Ultra-High 1″ rings that were clamped to an AirForce Tri-Rail, which put the scope a little too high for my preference. I thought I needed the extra height, but the Tri-Rail coupled with the risers on the rings is too much. I’ll lower the rings with a set of medium risers because I want to keep the Tri-Rail. It slips on all AirForce rifles fast and easy and keeps a pretty good zero when moved from one gun to another.

Both JSB Exacts and Crosman Premiers performed well. The rifle shot groups that averaged just under one inch, and the best of the day measured 0.379″, though it was the only SS group that measured less than a half-inch. Because the pellet moved so slowly and the distance was so great, I could watch some of the pellets in flight.

Smallest group of JSB Exacts measures 0.379″. Not bad for 50 yards!

On air, the SS is more accurate at this distance, but the difference isn’t that great. I would expect to see a lot of groups between 0.50″ and 0.75″ on air. If the wind were blowing, the slow-moving pellet would be moved around considerably, so this long-range shooting is only possible under ideal conditions.

The Condor was snappier than the SS, obviously, and it made some noise…but nothing compared to a Condor on air. Sighting-in was very easy because the AirForce Tri-Rail permitted the scope to be transferred without a lot of change in zero.

A Condor on CO2 is still a Condor. It has as much power as some powerful spring rifles!

The Condor grouped in the 0.75″ to 1.0″ range, with the best group going 0.376″. It also preferred Crosman Premiers and JSB exacts over all other brands. I got several JSB groups that measured just over a half-inch, and I think the extra 100 f.p.s. proved beneficial.

Five Premiers went into this 0.376″ group from the Condor.

Condor put five JSB Exacts into 0.582″ at 50 yards.

The bottom line
If you already own an AirForce air rifle, this adapter expands your rifle’s already impressive portfolio of features. If you’re thinking of buying one, here’s another good reason for you. If you like the idea of precharged accuracy but don’t want the hassle of the scuba tank or pump, here’s the way out! Any way you look at it, this adapter adds a lot of value to the entire AirForce lineup.

author avatar
Tom Gaylord (B.B. Pelletier)
Tom Gaylord, also known as B.B. Pelletier, provides expert insights to airgunners all over the world on behalf of Pyramyd AIR. He has earned the title The Godfather of Airguns™ for his contributions to the industry, spending many years with AirForce Airguns and starting magazines dedicated to the sport such as Airgun Illustrated.

116 thoughts on “AirForce CO2 adapter is put to the test! – Part 2”

  1. Hey B.B.

    If I connect a standard paintball HPA bottle to the Co2 adapter with the condor valve and use it in my Talon SS, how much air am I going to be wasting? I know this is a loaded question, but if I put a longer barrel on to utilize the extra gas, will I still need to change the hammer on my SS to a heavier one like the Condors’?

  2. O.K….. thanks for the reply, but you didn’t answer any of my questions. I don’t plan on wasting money to try this setup without knowing a little more about the valve on the Co2 adapter. I have a 98 CU in, 4500 PSI HPA bottle that I would like to use with my Talon SS. I know that you can’t use a Condor Hi-
    Flo bottle on a Talon or Talon SS without installing a heavier hammer assy., mainly due to the larger internals of the Condor valve assy.. I’m trying to figure out if the Co2 adapter with the “Condor” valve has a weaker spring in the valve assy. thus allowing it to work with all Airforce models, or if it is the same identical valve used on the Condor Hi-Flo bottles.

  3. Nuglor,

    The Condor valve on the adapter is a Condor valve – period. No weaker springs.

    It works for this application because CO2 has a lower vapor pressure than the standard working pressure of AirFiorce rifles.

    Your idea would require a Condor powerplant, unless you regulate the air output to 850 psi, with is very possible with a paintball regulator.


  4. Well, it just might work then. My bottle has a fixed regulator on it of 850 psi.. I think I’ll go ahead and order the adapter. Even if the performance is less than expected with my HPA bottle, I still have Co2 bottles I can use. Thanks for the info B.B. I hadn’t considered the fact that my HPA bottle was already regulated and shouldn’t make a difference on the bigger internals of the Condor valve. DUH!!!

  5. B.B.

    I was reading something you said about mounting scopes. You said that for optimum peformance, you have to have the scope’s vertical crosshair lined up exactly perpindicular to the gun.

    My question is, if you mount it slightly off, where it’s not perfectly perpindicular. But, you hold the gun so that the crosshair is always perpindicular with the ground, the rifle is always at the same angle, would that counter and solve the problem?

    I’m curious because I know if it’s crooked and you shoot with the rifle exaclty straight up, the pellet will not drop in line with the crosshair. I realized just the other day that my condor’s scope was crooked like that, but I’ve never had a problem because I always hold the condor at the same, slightly crooked angle. So, am I doing the right thing by leaving it like it is, or should I make it perpindicular with the gun?

  6. B.B. At times I e-mail Pyramyd with a tech query and the responce is slow (weeks) or it never is answered. Will this service also improve? Most of my queries are related to possible purchases.

  7. Nuglor,

    I have done some experimentation with HPA paintball tanks connected to a CO2 rifle (RWS 850 AirMagnum) and am also interested in the outcome of your setup.

    .22 multi-shot

  8. Hi BB,

    In Part 1, you mentioned adding 3 drops of Pellgunoil inside the adapter to lubricate the CO2 tank valve.

    I own a Talon SS with standard air tank. Would you also recommend using Pellgunoil to lubricate the air tank valve?

    If so, where and how much oil would you add?

    Right now, I’m adding only silicon grease to the bolt slide and the tip of the top hat to lub the bolt’s o-rings. Presumeably none is reaching the value or its o-ring.


  9. B.B. Pelletier
    I am thinking of getting a Condor because it is so versatile. And I would like to put the Leapers king of S.W.A.T. 8-32×56 scope on it with the B-square interlock adjustable 30mm x 11mm mounts. And add the Hill hand pump. But I don’t know which adapter to use !!
    Please Help !! Thanks !! As for the gun, scope, scope mounts and pump will this combination work out O.K. I’ll be using it mostly for hunting & G.P.(General Purpose):) So feel free to advise on any of these items. I’ll take any advice from the Guru himself:)
    I have another question on Co2.
    Could you just fill your existing tank on the Condor with Co2??
    And if not. If you have to change tanks is’nt this going to change the way you hold your rifle on cheek placement not unless both tanks are identical in diameter ??
    Just curious 🙂 Or am I missing something ???
    Thanks for your time
    Bret B.
    P.S. Great Blog !!! Learning alot & still learning more.

  10. bb,

    me again, i’ll be getting a job soon, and considering how i like to save money, i figure that within a few months to half a year (after i start my job) i could easily afford a talon, ss, or condor with accesories. this is just a possibility of course.

    Unfortunately, i only have an air tank capable of holding a couple hundred psi (i think). i guess that i would then have to get a co2 version of these guns.noise is not a problem, and i wouldnt really feel like spending an extra hundred or so for a condor, so i would go for the TALON (in .22 of course). In Minnesota though, its either hot or hotter in the summer. the temp is always changing, so the velocity would be constantly changing from day to day right? how would this adversley affect my accuracy? would the groups just raise in elevation on the hotter days?

    Is there another airgun that you would suggest over the TALON for someone in my predicament? I am attracted to the Airforce rifle because of the ease of shooting them. Springers are too finicky when it comes to posture/technique. multi-pumps are tiring and slow to get shots off (not to mention the noise the pumping makes! Scares off anything for sure if you miss!) and i haven’t seen you ‘talk’ about single pump pneumatics so i am assuming that they are not the better types of airguns.

    And of course, as we all know, IT GETS COLD IN THE WINTER!! I guess that is where my benjamin 392 would come in! so the co2 would take a dramatic drop in velocity again right?

    I would like something that you would have ease of shooting with, something great for plinking and hunting! a pcp sounds perfect! on co2 sounds better yet!

    Are there any multipumps in the $300-$400 range? just curious.

    I have searched up about the hand pump available for the Airforce rifles (200 some dollars!!) and i’m too light and weak to pump it efficiently (i think).

    wow, i sure didn’t ask for much did i?

    to sum it up

    1 somewhat easy to operate
    2 fun to plink/hunt with
    3 250-450 price range (exception for the airforce rifles)
    4 operates efficiently in cold/hot environments. stands up well to temp changes.
    5 accurate
    yep that about sums ‘er up!


  11. Brett B.

    First, the adapter situation is solved if you buy from Pyramyd AIR. They will set it up for you. If not, you need a female 1/4″ pipe thread fitting on the end of the hose coming from the pump. It will accept the U1009 AirForce fill adapter that attaches to the AirForce tank. Be sure to wrap the threads with Teflon tape.

    You can put CO2 into a Condor tank if you can get someone to make a fitting for the fill. But I advise against it. Air is dry and CO2 isn’t, so I would keep my gasses in separate tanks.


  12. Insomniac,

    Well, this deserves a comment. I remember a time last year when you were lusting after a 392. Now you sound like an expert. That’s what happens after a few months of using a gun.

    Now to your question. Yes, the AirForce guns are really the best buys, but once again it sounds like they will stretch your budget. Remember the conversations we had about the cost of the 392?

    One alternative is the BAM B50. You’ll save a hundred dollars and get a (probably) very nice air rifle. A second choice is buying used, but I don’t recommend it. In the PCP market there are too many experimenters selling off their failed projects.

    I recommend you do this right and save until you can afford a Talon SS on air. Then get a scuba tank. Yes it will take longer, but then you’ll have exactly what you want. And you now know how flexible that gun can be.


  13. bb,

    I catch on quick.

    the BAM B50 is a pcp though, and it doesnt run off co2. i only have a 150 PSI pump. there are no dive shops in central minnesota as far as i know. makes sense i guess! if i went to the northeastern part of the state they might have some dive shops, considering the quantity of lakes there, and lake superior is right there too. but i wouldnt want to travel a hundred miles to get to a dive shop and fill up my scuba tank.

    the BAM B50 looks nice though.

    would an air pump from a gas station be able to hold nearly 3000 PSI? i dont think so, but i can ask my father bout that. the air is free. I don’t know anyone who would have a 200 BAR tank, i could ask my dad though, he might know where i could use one.


  14. bb,

    I am this close -> <- to getting the peep sight for the benjamin 392. I’m getting a blister from pumping the 392 this weekend, my cousin was over so we were constantly shooting at cans, and even a few rabbits. It was 70 degrees today and we didnt do a lot of shooting, it was too hot. I can’t wait to get the peep sight, and i bet i’ll have a blister or two before i have it sighted in to my liking. thanks

    p.s. what would I do with a BAM B50 if I didn’t have 200 BAR air compressor? (see the post above this for more details!!!)

  15. bb,

    I have shot a few pellets now (400-500) with my benjamin, and I was wondering, what happens to the lead when the pellets dissolve?

    We get our water from an underground well, and that is alot of lead out in our yard. Could the lead dissolve and then get into our well water?

    And are these the pellets you would recommend with this rifle? JSB .22 Diabolo Exact Jumbo, CROSMAN .22 Premier Domed?

    The 392 is a lot easier to pump when it is warm/hot out, the oil already there must have heavy viscosity in the cold.


  16. Insomniac,

    Lead pellets do no more harm to the water table than the natural lead already in the ground. A berm with a million lead bullets might be a concern, but pellets are insignificant.

    The pellets you mention are about the best there are.


  17. bb,

    I’m still confused (it’s me not you!!), what type of pump would I use? a hand pump?

    I’m going to buy the peep sight and a pack of crosman .22 premier domed. I’m going to enjoy the warmth of spring before summer heats things up to unbearable levels.


  18. Hi,

    I spent the past few days reading your entire blog (i.e. the archives since it started…yay for vacation :), and I love it. I picked up a lot of valuable stuff and also learned to put a lot of claims on the internet at their appropriate value.

    That said; lets move on:

    I’ve read these posts about the conversion of these expensive air rifles, and what I’m wondering about is the following; You’ve written about accuracy a lot, and it involves basically an “everything right” situation, and a great part of it is shooter’s comfort. Now I’m not an experienced shooter by all means (I don’t even own a gun at this point), but I really have a hard time believing that having the round butt of a 20oz CO2 tank against your shoulder is in any way comfortable…unless of course there’s a special technique involved in shooting these rifles which negates the need for a comfortable butt. Can you (or anyone else) comment on this?

    And as a long shot: Do you have any observations or experience with the Weihrauch HW57? It seems to be the ignored little borther of the “big boys”, the HW77/97. I’m looking at this rifle as a starter, and I’m especially interested in its longer range (i.e. 50m) performance.

  19. FOTempel.

    The AirForce rifles you refer to with the 20 ounce CO2 tank have Lothar Walther barrels. These are very fine airguns barrels that put these rifle ahead of most spring piston guns to begin with.

    CO2 and compressed air is quite a bit easier to use (to shoot accurately with) than a spring piston that has recoil and vibration. Therefore, if the gas guns also have a good barrel, it’s usually no contest that they will outshoot all but the finest spring piston guns – and only then when the shooters of the spring piston guns use the proper shooting technique for accuracy.

    The HW 57 is a relatively new design that I have not yet tested. It is certainly a fine rifle, just by the fact that it’s made by Werihrauch. It will shoot accurately to 50 yards, and you will have to use very good spring gun technique to do well, which will train you to be a better shooter.


  20. Hi B.B.,

    Thanks for your answer.

    I bought a secondhand hw57 anyway, so I guess I’ll have to see for myself 🙂

    Regarding the AirForce rifle. You say the barrel is very accurate, and shooting from a gas reservoir is much more forgiving than a springer. However, all that takes place at the dangerous end of the rifle. But does that make up for the discomfort (unless it isn’t, of course) of having some (large) round, cold piece of aluminium against your shoulder and against the cheek?

    Maybe you could write something on the ergonomics of shooting gear sometime, given that a lot of effort goes into making rifles which are very ergonomic for 10m matches. Weird that the longer distance shooters put up with seemingly less of it, just because the rest of the rifle is so nice.

    Maybe I’m just wrong, I don’t know 🙂

  21. FOTemple,

    Keep us posted on what you think of the 57.

    As for ergonomics, that sounds like a good idea, but I don’t know if I’m the right guy to write it. I test so many guns that I adapt quickly to most of them. I don’t even know if I own a rifle that really fits me.

    The CO2 tank is no problem at all. It feels a lot like the AiorForce reservoir, except AirForce has a foam pad around the tank.


  22. I woud like to point out that it’s probably best to use the adapter with a 12oz or 9oz tank with a neoprene cover widely available at paintball stores. I use 9oz tanks now. I’ve not had a chance to try out my talonSS with my paintball HPA tank but from my experience trying to use a 20oz co2 tank it would make using the scope impossible. A gas-through stock (plugged into the adapter) paired with a remote line could solve that problem.

    In any case B.B I’d like to elaborate some on the 4-16 Airforce scope.

  23. For the CO2 version is the reason why the Condor has a higher fps than the SS Because of the 24 in barrel (I know the effects of CO2 for the longer Barrel) or is there also a hi-flow valve. If there is a hi-flow valve is it possible to put just the valve on the SS version on eather the PCP or CO2. I am guessing that you cant because you get the same number of shots off a fill of CO2. But also how can the Logen get 1300 shots? is the gun mre efficent in the CO2 or is that just on the min power if you can change power.

  24. Also with the last comment does the CO2 come pre-filled?

    And for the blogs I always am having to load the page 3 times it could be me but just in case

  25. Pyramyd AIR sells the CO2 tanks both ways – filled and empty.

    The longer barrel is probably responsible for half of the power gain and the Condor powerplant plus the hi flo valve takes credit for the other half. If anything, the barrel is even more responsible than that, but I haven’t done any testing to determine.

    When the valve closes, no more CO2 escapes. No doubt there are fewer shots from a hi flo tank than a standard tank, but no testing has been done to determine that. The number 1300 is not exact; it’s just the place where the testing ended. So there are even more shots in there. The number is emormous and staggering to test.


  26. I wouldn’t let it get much hotter than 110 degrees F. A friend had his burst disk rupture when his paintball tank was stored in a hot car in the summer, and those temperatures are known to go as high as 140 degrees F.


  27. How much louder might the Talon be than the SS for CO2?

    I would likethe extra power but I am trying to decide if the noise is worth it. Also the Talon looks better (personal prefrence). Also can you buy the silenced barrel later because I can not find it.

  28. The barrel is not silenced. What make an SS quiet is the fact that its 12-inch barrel ends deep inside the frame of the Talon SS (but NOT the Talon, which has a shorter frame).

    An SS on CO2 will certainly be quieter than a Talon on CO2 at a given power.

    Ask yourself this – can you shoot any CO2 rifle where you like to shoot? If so, get what you want. They are not that noisy.


  29. I am not to happy right now. I was the one whos been asking a good number of q’s and then my dad looks at the city laws and I cant even use this gun legally so now I am not to happy sence I have been waiting for 6 months to get this. This is a note to every one check the laws of your city before you look at air guns. (not even a sling-shat is legal

  30. But if is not the barrel it is how the barrel goes in then why is that not silenced?

    Just because I can’t get one now but when we go on vacation in the mountians there is a chance to get one

  31. I think you are confused be the design of the AirForce guns. The large round projection to which the firearm is attached is the frame of the gun – not the barrel. The actual barrel of the rifle is a thin tube that’s supended inside the tubular frame in two circular bushings that look like LifeSavers.

    By putting the muzzle of the short SS barrel 4 inches inside the frame, AirForce managed to reduce the report from the muzzle. But there is nothing on the rifle that could be called a silencer. It’s the same approace that modern stealth airplane designers use when the bury the exhaust of the jets deep inside the airframe of the aircraft.


  32. For the Talon SS CO2 is it possible to use the open sights with a scope on it? I have a really hard time finding my target with the cheap scope I have and this is why I do not care for scopes. So I was hoping to be able to ind the target with open sights and aim with a scope.

    Also how loud is the Talon and the Talon SS CO2 compared to the Beeman Gold Series GH500 (this is the scope that I have). I want to upgrade to somthing I will not want to replace and this one is to small for me. Because if the Talon CO2 is the same I will get the Talon CO2. Note if you have not used this gun can you compair it with something close in the same line because they cant be that diffrent.

    just a not on the side that I am proud of. At a scout camp a few years age I could hit a dime concistantly at 10m with a cheap rimfire with not so good open sights.

  33. Talon questioner,

    These guns have adjustable power. They can be both quieter and noisier than your Beeman, depending on how the power is set.

    Hit a dime at 10 meters? With a PCP you would be embarrassed to miss a dime that close. Try 30 meters before you start missing dimes. The CO2 versions have the same accuracy.

    Open sights and scopes do not work on AirForce rifles. Instead, geta ascope with lower power, or a variable that you can run on low power to find the target, then dial it back ti high. It only takes a few minutes of practice before you’ll be able to find targets on high power right away.

    I don’t understand your upgrade question. Are you talking about the gun or a scope?


  34. Thank you for your response.

    about the dime hit. This was with a bad rimfire and I was able to out shoot the rifle. Out of my whole troops I was one of the best shots. And I gat alot of free icecream sandwitches. And I am still proud o it.

    About the noise. Your said both can be louder and quieter for the talon C02 how low would the power have (what fps in the .177) to be for it to be quieter? And I read earlier that at over 600 fps that lead pellets disenegrate, how offen would the barrel need to be cleaned if ever?

    and sorry about the grammer in the last post.

  35. Perllets don’t start coming apart in the barrel until subjected to violent forces. No PCP will do that. Some Magnum spring guns will defore the skirts at around 1000 f.p.s. and more, but disintegration is rare.

    As for velocity in the .177 Talon SS on CO2, the low numbers have not been published yet.


  36. This might just be easier for me to understand. For the Talon CO2 and Talon SS CO2 (.177 if it makes a diffrence) how loud are they compared to the Drozd? If the Talon is a little louder on high power it is fine to use in my yard.

  37. When it says it comes with open sights are they the Quick detachable Fiber Optic Open Sights? Because if you go under Accessories they are still there. If they are diffrent which would you recomend.

  38. The way this website is set up, accessories apply to the general model, not to specific variations. Yes, the quick detatchable fiber optic open sights are what the gun comes with if you order it that way, and yes, they are also available as accessories for those who do not have them already.


  39. Can we talk about just one model at a time? The Talon SS has sound suppression and will be quieter than the Drozd ON LOW POWER. On high power, it will be louder.

    The Talon has no sound supression and I don’t think you want to buy it. It will generally be louder than the Talon SS.


  40. Yah, its still me asking. I plan on getting the Talon SS CO2 .177. But I have a few more questions (hard to belive isent it!) I was wondering about the tragrectory. But I would think that it would be the same with any rife with the same fps and same pellets. How long is the distance the pellet will travel before it drops 1.5-2 inches below what I am aiming for (I ask because I plan on open sights for now and woumder if I would have to compensate very much). For pellets I was thinking of getting
    CROSMAN .177 Premier Domed Heavy 10.5g for longer range shooting

    Eun Jin .177 pellets 16.1g I was thinking of these as well but might they have to much drop and 50 yards? I would like these to make better hole and blow things up more.

    I know the .22 would be better for this (blowing things up). But in just my own thoughts I would think that the pellet would drop alot along the way and you said in the review that the extra fps in the Condor was nice (that is the reasoning for the .177). If it does not I would go for that one and save up more for the pellets.

    The reason why I am asking so many q’s is because I do not want any bad surprises when I can get it (end of the school year gift to myself).

    wow I thank you so much for this. This is why I love this web site!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    but I still can not spell

  41. I for got some thing (hard to belive). But when we travel to gets very warm in the trunk. Well into the tripe digets. How would you recomend storing the CO2? In the cooler or would that be to cold?

  42. Wow I am asking alot of q’s but last one for to day. How offen would I need to to clean the gun and what would you recomend for doing so?

    Something I found rather funny. The SHATTERBLAST 60-Pack Refill Disks has a one year warrenty.! What can go wrong?

  43. Talon SS CO2,

    I will answer you as completely as I can in Thursday’s blog. I understand and appreciate that you are about to make a major purchase and I want to help you, but I don’t want to lead you astray.

    Your questions need more of an answer than I can give here. If you are wondering these things, chances are others are, too.


  44. I will answer the CO2 question here. Don’t store the tank in any place where the temp gets into triple digits. I’ve had friends who have had tanks blow their burst disks that way. Store the tank in the cooler (no harm at all) or in the passenger section of the car, as long as there are people in the car with the air conditioning turned on, but don’t leave the tank in a hot car.


  45. Cleaning frequency. Immediately after receiving the gun clean the barrel with JB Bore Compound in the recommended way.

    After that, you’ll never need to clean the barrel again.

    Just wipe the outside of the gun with a clean cloth and that’s it. Watch the instructional DVD that comes with the gun to learn how to oil the bolt.


  46. I was wondering if CO2 is at a higher preasure when it is warm then wouldent the gas run out faster because more would come out? Or will it be inconcequential?

    It is the me the same person who has been asking the previous q’s. For now on I will put my name

    Rob E.

  47. Rob,

    As temperature increases, so does the pressure of CO2 gas. Yes, you will exhaust more gas at higher temperatures, but with most guns the difference will be inconsequential. With some gas-guzzlers like the Desert Eagle, you might notice a difference in the number of shots on a real hot day.


  48. For the JB cleaning compound is there any thing else that would have to to go with it? Rod or a gun cloth? I could not tell if you ment to say what pellets you reccomed for the .177 Talon SS on Thursday but if you overlooked that can you please tell! also I saw the JBS pellets.

    Rob E.

  49. Rob,

    Best pellet of all is the .22 caliber JSB Exact 15.8-grain dome. In all three AirForce rifles, it is the most accurate. The 10.20grain JSB should also be the best in .177.

    Field shooting is exactly what AirForce rifles were made for. If you mean the sport of field target, however, the AirForce rifles are perceived as too lightweight for the precision needed at long range. Remember, in field target you have to follow all the AAFTA rules, so bipods are out.

    As for other cleaning equipment, get a Dewey one-piece cleaning rod, many brass brushes and cotton cleaning patches. And that’s about it.


  50. But in the big post you said nothing heavier than an 8.5 grain and now you say the 10.2 JSB’s! I was looking at the CROSMAN .177 Premier Domed Light JSB .177 DIABOLO EXACT HEAVY JSB .177 DIABOLO EXACT. Can you please say which one is the best for long range shooting? Another thing would a pellet being good at long be equal at a shorter range or is there a diffrense? Note it takes a week for an order and I do not want to use the “wrong” pellets that long.


    Rob E.
    Just say when I am asking to many questions!!!

  51. Rob,

    I’m confused about what gun you are asking about. This question has gone on so long I can’t locate where it began.

    So please ask it again, so I know what we are talking about.

    Regarding your questions about pellets, Long-range pellets are also good at short range. They cannot be bad close up and become good downrange. So when someone says a pellet is a good at long range, they are saying that it does it all, because long range is the most difficult distance for a pellet to perform.



  52. Might the 4×32 Mini AO Bug Buster Scope, Illuminated Red/Green Mil-Dot Reticle, Flip-Open Lens Covers be ok for the Talon SS CO2 for fun shooting or would it be better to save and get the 150 dollar Air Force scope? I would plan on using this for all ranges close and far and if I see a fat Dragonfly BOOM! But I do not want to be limited at range.

    Rob E.

  53. I know the AirForce scope is good for long range but would the Bug Buster be to much of a comprimise when shooting at long range?

    Rob E.

    All I need is that 5%. If it does not come in a few more days is it possible to call in my order and say what I recomend for the 5% of?

  54. Rob,

    Why don’t you get the Bug Buster 2? It has 6 power instead of 4 and still focuses down to 3 yards.

    Yes, you give up a little precision at long range (35 yards and beyond) but you gain the close focus, plus the price is just over a third.


  55. Rob,

    As I have said many times, 3/8″ is very close to 11mm. So the mounts often fit both guns. Leapers advertises their mounts to fit 3/8″ because they also cater to the firearms crowd, and 3/8″ is the .22 rimfire size.


  56. Hey BB I just got my Talon SS CO2 today and it looks cool but…in my order they did not include the cleaning rode so I was wondering if it so ok to use it a bit till it comes? And also my rear sight does not fit to the gun so I can not really use it at all all I can do is stare at it and wonder about what it can do but the front site will fit on the front and the back. Please help I have been waiting 6 months for this and now I cant even use it!!!!

    Rob E.

    note: everything was said to be instock and also they gave me 2 CO2 adaptors one in a box and one with the gun.

  57. Rob,

    WEhy can’t you just shoot your gun? Is something wrong?

    I shot abhout 6,000 shots through mine before I cleaned it the first time, and only then because accuracy declined.

    What’s wrong with your AirForce rear sight? It should fit fine. AirForce will take care of you in no time. Just call them at 877-247-4867.


  58. I fired the gun a bit with my jerry rigged sights (held on by a rubberband) untill the replacements come in about a week. But here is a note if you want to use open sights with the Talon SS CO2 do not get the 20oz tank. You are much better off getting the 12oz because the 20oz is much larger than the air so it is not made to fit it correctly. Also I tried to call the number and it would not work so I called Pyramyd AIR and the are the ones sending me the new sights.

    Rob E.

  59. Ok
    I had an idea for a scope. That being the BSA Shadow Black Quick Sight 50mm. I know most people like to use the Air Force scopes but I am not going to go hunting (parents do not like hunting). So I was looking for something that would give me a large periferal and be, good. I was draw to this one because the 46M comes with this as an option and so then I am assuming that it must be good. For the extra height I was thinking of mounting this on a Tri-base because I am already huging the CO2 bottle because it is so BIG (that is the reason for the 50mm it raises the center). So big I think I am going to go out and buy a 12oz. Also what would you say the max range for this scope is to hit a 2.5 inch shatter blast? Noet I have a Talon SS CO2. So far with my home made sights I can not hit much but I have some comming so for now I am using me brothers 953 which is not that bad of a airgun and still is pretty hard to pump for the younger people as in <13 years old but now well today he turned 14 and this was my present to him.

    Rob E.

    my home made sights cant hit a sheet of paper at 33 ft so now I am happy for the giant hill for a back stop.

    please reply with your words of wisdom.

  60. Rob,

    A Talon SS should be able to hit a 2.5-inch ShatterBlast at 100 yards almost every time if the wind isn’t too strong. The scope isn’t a big factor, other than the more magnification, the easier it is to see the target.


  61. So what might the max range for the scope be that I mentioned before be good for hitting the Shatterbalsts? Also what magnifcation does the 50mm BSA Shadow Black Quick Sight have because I have looked and can not find it or is there any at all?

    Rob E.

  62. Rob,

    The scope sees to infinity. I don’t have your eyes, so you have to look through the scope yourself and see how far away you can see a ShatterBlast target. I can see it easily at 100 yards.

    The sight you are referring to is a dot sight, which also sees to infinity. But the dot subtends an angle larger than the ShadowBlast at 100 yards, so you;ll have to sight the gun for holdover. Sight so when you place the dot above the target, your pellet will hit the target.


  63. BB

    Ok, I got the 12oz bottle and it is much better. But when I was taking out the 20oz bottle I noticed somthing. I saw the little rubber ring on the very top of the bottle and part of it was black and was not gripping the top lip that well in the black part. Is this bad or can it be used with out this ring?

    Rob E.

  64. Rob,

    You are describing the O-ring that seals the AirForce adapter. It will not grip anything until it’s under pressure. The rerast of the time it shoyuld be free to rotate in its groove, and even to be removed.

    You should lubricate the O-ring with diver’s silicone grease. That keeps it fresh and sealing.

    If the O-ring is popping out of its groove, disconnect the adapter from the valve body by unscrewing the two and put the O-ring back in its groove. The unit cannot seal unless the O-ring is in the groove.


  65. Rob,

    Keep WD-40 away from all guns, both airguns and firearms. When it dries, it leaves a sticky yellow varnish on all the parts. The gun will stop functioning until this varnish is removed. I did that to a .30/06 Mauser that was in storage, and it took weeks to clean all the crap off.

    I used to love WD-40. but after that experience and after being warned never to use it on any fine timepieces for the same reason, I stopped uising it altogether.


  66. B.B.

    I am going to order a Talon SS CO2 in 0.22. Below is the gun and a list of accessories I plan on buying along with the gun. I have been reading your blog for days now and really appreciate all of your work.

    My main question comes simply down to which of the JBS pellets to buy.
    For the CO2 version of this gun should I get the Exact Jumbo at 15.8 gr? Or the Exact Jumbo Express at 14.3 gr?

    Also I read in one of your reviews that you used the Tri-Rail Base with the extra high B-Square mount and it was a bit to high for you. I plan on ordering the Tri-Rail Base in High instead of extra high. What do you think of that choice?

    And, is there anything you feel I should add or delete from the list below.

    Your opinions are appreciated and alway valueable.

    Thanks in advance,


    TALON SS CO2 Powerful CO2 , Caliber – 0.22″

    Full 20oz. CO2 Tank
    1 FREE

    AirForce CO2 Adapter – Fits Condor, Talon & Talon SS
    1 FREE

    Full 12oz. CO2 Tank

    Deluxe CO2 Fill Station

    Thumbhole accessory bar for AirForce Talon/Condor

    Tri-Rail Base

    B-Square 17701 1-Pc Mount w/1″ Rings, High, 9.5-13mm Dovetails

    AirForce 4-16x50AO air rifle scope

    AirForce LS-1 Laser

    Bipod for AirForce Talon/Condor with a longer support clamp

    Phillips Pellet Holder for AirForce air rifles (.22-.25)

    CROSMAN .22 Premier Domed , Caliber – 0.22″, Qty – 625, Weight: 14.3 gr

    And the JBS Exacts your recommend.

  67. Arlan,

    I read your list, but I don’t recommend the thumbhole accessory bar because there’s nothing to attach it to at the back. Unless you buy the regular AirForce reservoir, you don’t have a buttplate. You need one to attache the thumbhole bar.

    I like your choice of equipment, but I would add a B-Square scope level that sticks out on the side. I agree that the high mounts are probably best with the tri-rail.

    I’ve found that the 15.8gr Exacts to be more accurate than the lighter ones.


  68. The size of tank will not affect the velocity. The number of shots would be 9/20 os a 20-ounce tank, but I can’t remember what that is. Certainly a couple hundred.

    The tophat is adjustable, but because CO2 is a molecule and not an atom, it won’t affect velocity as readily.


  69. BB,

    I came into some money recently, so I decided to get the gun I wanted all along instead of the CFX. My plan is kind of indirect. I am going to buy the Condor with the CO2 adapter and tank. The CO2 Condor seems to make the most sense. The Minnesota winter is starting, so all my shooting for the next 4 months will be indoors, I like the idea of getting 1000+ shots, and the cost of ownership seems to be less. I’ll keep my eyes peeled for an inexpensive SCUBA tank in the meantime.
    I have a couple of questions. Is this a logical course of action? Since I’ll be getting less power with CO2, should I buy the .177 barrel first? Is the Condor a competitive field target gun? If it is shooting under 20 ft/lbs when running on compressed air are the shots consistent enough for field target? If it’s not a field target gun should I just buy the .22 barrel and save $150? The AAFTA website mentioned that 12X is the maximum allowed zoom setting. Is this truly the case and if it is, wouldn’t a 4-16×56 Leapers scope be a great choice as both a field target and hunting scope?


  70. Jesse,

    Don’t think of this purchase in terms of economy. You are not buying a farm or a fleet of trucks. But your plan does make sense.

    I still recommend the .22 caliber over .177 for all things except plinking with the Condor. The tiny .177 squeezes the life out of this airgun. You might as well buy a Talon if you’re going to shoot .177.

    There is no upper limit on scope power for an AAFTA-sanctioned field target match. Perhaps you were reading about some made-up category, like the hunter class?

    The Condor can be used for field target but it won’t be very competitive. It’s too light, and too powerful.

    A 4-16X 56 Leapers will be a wonderful scope for a Condor. I use a 4-16 from AirForce.


  71. BB,
    Thank you for your reply. I’m always very impressed with this blog.
    Would it be more competitve than the CFX? I don’t plan on advancing very far in field target but it looks like a
    lot of fun. Would it still be enjoyable with a Condor? Why is the Condor’s light weight an issue? Is it worth the wait for a repeater to be released by Airforce?
    Happy Thanksgiving!


  72. Jesse,

    These two airguns compete in different categories, so thert’s no comparing them.

    Either gun can be used in the sport, as long as you don’t plan on winning most of the time.

    Weight is an issue because in the seated position, more weight helps to stabilize the rifle. Most FT rifles weigh more than 10 pounds.

    It is NOT worth waiting for AirForce to develop a repeater.


  73. I have been getting my Talon SS Co2 ready for the summer but when removing the CO2 tank a black O-ring fell out. Because my gun came with 2 CO2 adapters I compared the 2 and even the second does not have the back O-ring.

    The O-ring is larger than the yellow one that goes at the top of the Co2 tank and I have not seen this size ring on a CO2 before.

    ps. This is Rob E. from above

  74. I have an AirForce Talon SS with the CO2 adapter. It has been a wet summer here in Colorado, and maybe that is part of the problem, but sometimes when I put a full tank on I get major frost build up on the OUTSIDE of the barrel shroud. Presumably I am getting it on the inside too, because I hear a load whoosh and can even see what I guess is frost exiting the barrel.

    Of course this affects the shooting, but I am even more concerned about rust or other damage this may cause. Has anyone tested the rifle (CO2 or air) at altitude? I live and shoot at 8400 feet.

    I have an indoor range in my basement, and when it is humid I get the same problem there.

    Mike in CO

  75. Mike in CO,

    I also shoot a Talon SS on CO2. Not at 8400 feet, but in the hot humid mid Atlantic. Never have had a frost build up. So I cann't help you there.

    However, B.B. does a daily blog at https://www.pyramidair.com/blog/ and you need to repost your question there where alot more of the folks will read it and perhasps give you a more definative answer than mine.

    You asked your question on a blog that was written in 2007.

    Mr B.

  76. Mike in CO,

    Can't help you with your talon SS since I don't own one. But I'm curious to know where in Colorado you reside.

    I have a home in Wheat Ridge and one just outside of Leadville (where I do most of my shooting).


  77. Hi There
    I have a Talon P with the AF co2 adapter on a 12 oz tank which is marked 3k. What is to be expected if, after emptying co2, it is refilled with a hand pump up to 1000 or even 1500 psi? It is my understanding that the co2 adapter’s valve is the same as the one in hi flo tanks. Since it is difficult to find a co2 refill station i would rather use this (highly paid) set up as a spare tank for low performance plinking.
    Best to you all

    • Bill,

      Welcome to the blog.

      Your CO2 tank is rated to 1,800 psi, so what you suggest is within the working range. Normally, though, the tank doesn’t go much above 900 psi.

      What will happen is you will get higher velocity, to a point. A fill to 1,200 psi will probably get you a 20 percent velocity increase. Above that pressure I can’t say what will happen, but I can tell you that valve wasn’t designed for this level of pressure. I would guess that it would start locking up.


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