by B.B. Pelletier
This is accuracy day for the AirForce Edge, plus a closer look at a couple features. I aired up the rifle and, from the results of the testing done in Part 3, I knew I would finish shooting with a lot of shots left on the reservoir.
You’ll recall from Part 3 that the Edge shoots light match pistol pellets in the 520s and heavier match rifle pellets in the 480s, so this test should prove interesting. We’ll learn if speed plays any part in accuracy. All these groups are five shots at 10 meters with a rested gun.
Note that I’m not entirely centered on the target with any of the pellets. I didn’t bother to make the final adjustments because I was going to be shooting four different pellets, each of which would have required a lot of final fiddling.
The Meisterkugeln lite was my sight-in pellet. Three shots to get into the bull and another seven to refine it. And then the group. And a good one at that! This is a pellet to remember for the Edge. I think I will put some through the chrono, because this pellet, at 7 grains, is even lighter than the H&N Finale Match Pistol pellet I tested in Part 3.
H&N Finale Match Pistol
The H&N Finale Match pistol pellet was the lightest pellet tested in the velocity test in Part 3. It weighs 7.6 grains (says 7.56 grains on the PA website, but I round off to the nearest tenth), which makes it fast in the Edge. And I got the best group of the session with it.
I came back to Finale Match Pistol pellets after testing the heavier pellets. They continued to be the pellet of choice from the four tested, but if I were competing, I would not stop looking.
RWS R10 Rifle
RWS R10 Heavy Match pellets weigh 8.2 grains and averaged 487 f.p.s. in the velocity test. They’re heavy for the Edge, so this was an interesting experiment. They loaded with more resistance, too.
H&N Finale Match Rifle
H&N Finale Match Rifle pellets performed about the same as the heavy R10s. That shows me the Edge likes the lighter, faster pellets. Blog reader Ron, who just bought an Edge, has noticed the same thing, so I think this must be right for the rifle.
The adjustable trigger
I mentioned before that the Edge trigger is adjustable; I’ll go into the details now. The primary adjustment is a single screw located just in front of the trigger blade. Screw it in for a heavier second stage, out for lighter. I was able to adjust it down below the 1.5-lb. sporter-class minimum, so there’s plenty of room to experiment.
The other trigger adjustment is more subtle. It involves positioning the trigger blade up or down on its post. Down gives more leverage, which results in a lighter pull. Between the two adjustments, you should be able to get the Edge trigger adjusted very nicely.
When shooting, the Edge trigger feels as though it has a positive trigger stop, even though there isn’t one on the gun. The trigger breaks so cleanly that my finger naturally stops after the break, and it feels exactly like a trigger stop. So, the Edge trigger is quite sophisticated. Sporter-class shooters are going to love it.
More on the action: how the bolt works
The key to the Edge trigger is the cocking raceway, or what I called the bolt track in Part 1.
The bolt can be swapped from one side of the gun to the other, making the rifle completely ambidextrous. However, AirForce cautions that this is not something you want to do often, because the Locktite on the screw threads of the cocking handle will wear off. Clubs shouldn’t think they can switch between kids during a season, because too-frequent changing will require frequent renewing of the Locktite. The mating parts are steel to steel, so wear isn’t a problem, but if the Locktite gets worn off they will loosen with use. Set up a rifle for the lefties and leave it that way.
Now, for the report on the lightweight Meisterkugelns, as promised. What do you think they’ll do?
They go faster. The average for a string of 10 is 563 f.p.s., with a range from 558 to 566. Not too shabby! And we know they’re accurate, though not the absolute best in today’s test.
Today’s work tells me to continue the search for the best pellet for the Edge and to shoot H&N Finale Match Pistol pellets while I do. The trigger is sweet, the sights are crisp and easily adjustable, it’s the only sporter-class target rifle with a dry-fire feature and the adjustable weights are extremely flexible.
And there’s a surprise coming soon, I hope.
93 thoughts on “AirForce Edge – Part 4”
This is off topic, but I have purchased a Theobin Eliminator in .25 cal. Can you tell me what pellet you had your best luck with?
BB,you know I hold your opinion in high reguard…that being said,what is your scope of choice on your USFT,and what pellet preference?
For anyone needing a good laugh today,google .577 T-rex and watch the video of guys trying to shoot that rifle…I lost count twice of how many times the gun hit the floor.Makes you really apreciate our precision hobby… Frank B
BB,Great report! I haven't adjusted the trigger on my Edge yet,but now I think I'll give it a try. It is pretty good out of the box. It does feel like there is a stop in it,but breaks like a glass rod. Can't wait for the suprize! Ron
BB, great article. You conclude the Edge likes lighter pellets. I have a Crosman 2009 Challenger. In your test of that rifle, it seems you only tested heavier pellets and got great results. Any particular reason for this? I'm having difficulty finding the heavier R-10's and H&N's you tested.
I could never get the .25 Crow Magnum to shoot accurately. So I rebarreled it to .20, and even then it wasn't accurate until I cleaned the barrel with JB Bore Paste. Then it shot well. That was with Crosman Premiers.
In .25 about the only pellet that works at present is the Baracuda. But in January Crosman will bring out a .25 Premier that should be good.
The Kodiak seems to work best in this gun.
I cannot recommend a scope. I use an 8-32 Leapers that is good, but not up to world-class competition.
All the pellets I used came from Pyramyd Air and should be in-stock now.
And I did test the Challenger with the same light Finale Match Pistol pellets that were best with the Edge. I just had an older tin that didn't say Pistol on the cover, but the weight is the same. It's the Rifle weight that's new for the Finale Match.
In that area, the cocking slot is about 1/2" wide and 3/2" deep. The only way I can think of to cut a slot for a pin is with a cutting bit in a drill press. Do you have any other ideas?
I believe that crack only became visible when the stain wicked into it. I don't see it from the inside, and the RLO has filled it from the outside. If I can't get a slot for a pin cut, I'm thinking of applying 2-3 drops of a thin CA which should wick into any invisible cracks (from the inside), then backing it with a layer of epoxy.
The next coat of RLO may be the final coat – then I'm planning to work on the crack while I let the finish sit for a week. I'll use JM's stock mud to polish it after it's cured a bit. It's hard to believe what the original finish was hiding. Of course, the right side is far more interesting than the left.
I did pick the right time to take on this stock – we haven't had outside shooting weather in 3 weeks in the Roanoke area, and it's snowing again.
B.B. That R7 that you found for me at Roanoke has proven to be a very nice indoor shooter. I have a Williams aperture sight on order for it.
b.b., are you shooting off-hand or from a rest?
(now my comments are worth a grain of salt, I know…without testing the guns side by side it may be a moot point)
Truthfully, if I got groups this large with my 853c (off hand standing), I'd be having an off day. What you got with the H&N Pistol would be an average day.
I rank in the top 20% of our informal shooting group that we formed last fall…I wouldn't call myself an exceptional shot, but nothing I see here would have me lining up for the Edge, other than it looks purtee.
Jay,if you can get your hands on a Dremel or similar rotary tool,there are quite a few bits that could produce a slot for a pin and some epoxy.It sounds like you have done a very good job!
Sure enjoyed your "tiger woodsish" post about the Daisy 130B. Not only interesting but entertaining. You have a flair for description and analogy.
You've given a new justification for considering guns feminine.
Wanted to thank you for your introduction to Renaissance Wax Polish. I've used it on several guns.
The consistency of this wax is similar to vaseline. Unlike carnuba or beeswax this allows you to apply a very thin coat to the stock and metal of a gun (or any other object. not inferring the feminine here although you might). The instructions indicate that multiple layers can be applied to build up protection and increase sheen.
Since I'm not a fan of gloss and I'm lazy I haven't experimented with multiple layers of Renaissance Wax. It's easy to apply and when buffed off leaves the thinnest coat of wax I've ever felt. Once I buffed it and allowed it to dry I shot the gun. I liked the fact that when shooting you don't feel a thick wax or a greasy oil. Since Renaissance Wax is used to preserve museum pieces, including marble statues left outdoors, I'm confident that it will provide another protective layer against the elements for my guns.
That wasn't just any R7, yif I recall correctly. That one belonged to my buddy, Mac. It was a great buy and I'm glad to hear that its working well for you.
BB, in the picture of the bolt it looks like there is some kind of measuring scale silk-screened above the bolt diagram. What is that for?
Glad you are finding the wax usefully and enjoyed my tail of the little Daisy.
For those who don’t stay up as late as me, the review is at the end of yesterday’s comments. I will put the rifle in the yellow classifieds later this week unless someone here wants first crack. It has been used for less than a week and about 100 – 150 pellet through it.
$75.00 will include shipping via the cheapest option I can find.
Here it is
With a Dremel, I believe I'd have to use the same bit I'm thinking of for the drill press. However, I think I'll have more control with the bit in the press and both hands on the stock.
For my first stock, I'm happy with the results – by no means perfect, but I won't be afraid to take it out to shoot!
Kevin – in the pics of your FX Ranchero, had you applied the Renaissance Wax? I'm not interested a glossy finish either.
B.B. – My wife is not so happy with the R7 (If you recall, I got it for her). Says she has a hard time getting it away from me!
That scale is to position the rear sight in the same place every time. The lower rail that holds the forearm has a similar scale for the same reason. The scale is burned on by an industrial laser, so the marks are very durable.
That went quick!
Domestic problems are not my specialty. Get your wife a Wii, but don't let her try the boxing game.
If you let your wife do the Wii boxing, she'll be able to easily wrestle the gun away from you!
Good concluding post for the Edge. I'll concur with CBSD that the groups could be tighter in competition mode. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'll chalk that up to your being in tester mode and not competition mode during the session. As is this gun doesn't look like it will instill any fear in that Anschuz guy 🙂 (Am I asking too much?)
However, as a tester, you proved your point about which tested pellet is best and showed that the Edge may be capable of more. Now it's up to the rest of us to find that "one" pellet for us and use more competitive concentration on shots.
I hope we hear from those on this blog who ordered Edges and they will tell us how their groups did.
This rifle fascinates me and has since I shot it at the Phoenix NRA convention. More than once I have sat with my finger on the left mouse button and the cursor over the add to cart icon. I think I keep hearing Frank B's voice in my head as I'm just about to press…
Hey, I just realized I was so busy yesterday that I didn't read Edith's Christmas post. Gotta go read that right now!
I'm curious as well about the accuracy. Coyboystar Dad said it better than I can, but it seems to me that at 10M off a rest, there shouldn't be anything but a single hole from a proper match rifle. I know my 753 will shoot better than what's pictured, off a rest with several run-of-the-mill pellets, and I'm no crack shot. It just seems to me that expectations for a match rifle should be higher that what's shown.
Jim in PGH
Chuck and CSD,
That is exactly right. If you check the Crosman Challenger groups you'll see pretty much the same thing. I can't stay at it long enough to get into the groove every time because I have a blog to write.
I was just thinking Dremel or drill with small cutting wheel, like FrankB, but I realize that it can be nerve-wracking at this stage — i.e., put in so much work and then expose it to a slipped hand! You might simply put a sheet metal plate bent to the bottom of the slot and epoxied in, or a piece of dowel or half-round that fits the contour could be glued in, but of course you have to check the clearance and visibility of those. Assuming that the crack is old and stable, you just want to add enough strength to prevent it from spreading without doing collateral damage. Your contingency plan (CA) sounds reasonable too.
You are right about the weather. I've already put my long rifle under the saw and rasp; pending some new brass I will be working on it for the next month or so. I dragged my heels because our weather was allowing pleasant shooting, but I'm not missing anything now:).
I could have shot ten more groups and gotten a smaller one to show, but I don't think that is what anyone wants. Please look at the Challenger 2009 test and you'll see pretty much the same thing.
You are looking at a group that measures 0.175" c-t-c for the H&N pellets. Yes I have shot smaller groups in my life and yes, I could do that with this rifle and/or the Crosman Challenger, but this group is representative of what I did.
I have tested Daisy 853s in the past and this is about what they do in my tests.
Remember, I have Photoshop at my beck and call, so super-tight groups are very easy to create. I don't want to do that. I want to show what actually happened. And this is it.
I haven't applied the Renaissance Wax to either of the ranchero stocks yet. Since my goal is a total of 20 coats of RLO on each stock I didn't want the wax to inhibit those additional applications of oil.
I've been sitting on the sidelines lately about the discussion of your stock crack you recently discovered but now feel compelled to chime in.
I think BG_Farmer and Mr B have provided excellent suggestions to address a problematic crack in a gunstock. Since I assume the depth of your hairline crack is miniscule I would leave it alone and fill with slurry and many coats (over the entire stock for eveness) of RLO for reinforcement.
I'd make sure when cocking the gun in the future that side to side movement was never allowed in the cocking stroke or cocking linkage. In my opinion this is what caused this hairline crack to begin with.
If you want to drill or dremel into the stock to install a pin to "head off" the ability for that crack to travel any further I would recommend drilling and installing the pin as close to the end of the crack as possible. Although attacking this from the inside of the stock would be the easiest for access, if this crack has not already traveled to the inside of the stock, the installation of a pin on the inside of the stock will likely allow the crack to progress to that point and when it reaches your pin/finish nail or ? it hopefully stops.
You may need a dremel with a flexible head to route out an area for installation of the pin closest to where the crack currently ends.
As I said earlier, I would just continue to fill the crack with finish and add more layers of finish after it was filled and make sure there isn't any sideplay when cocking the gun. Keep things adjusted snugly.
CJr,as a friend I have to tell you that …well….I'm really concerned.It has been my experience that if you started hearing Frank B in your head,you are about to get yourself in trouble!!!!No seriously,chew your pill,the voice will go away…. Then think,"i've held it,I've shot it,I want it,I'll take it!!
Revelation and disappointment.
Always assumed that B.B. spent several hours testing a new gun every day. Only after a few weeks of shooting this new airgun everyday during which he adjusts the hold, has had most shooting sessions of perfect conditions, has tried all sighting options available for this gun and tested all pellets available that only then would he start the multi-part series on the new gun.
Disappointing. Guess I need to find someone that will conduct complete testing on airguns.
Could someone please provide me a link?
Whoa! There's that dang voice again!
I just read your yesterday's post. You are a delight! Do you have a twin sister who's single? How about an older one? How about cousins? Maybe a grandmother or two?
b.b., I for one am not criticizing your test methods on the Edge. Your are entirely correct…what I've shot with any gun a month after I've purchased it is better than the first couple of days.
I guess what I'm concerned about is that when I look at the photos of the Edge I can't help but feel 'ohhh, I gotta have it, it looks as good as a $2500 FWB'…but I would need to test one myself first.
Maybe it is just that with the 853 Daisy came up with a world class gun (accuracy wise…I'm the first to admit the ergonomics leave much to be desired) for an incredibly low price.
I think if BB could shoot five pellets into the same hole, 0" c-t-c, with any gun, he wouldn't be writing blogs. He'd be in the Caribbean right now, with a pile of prize money, sipping Margarettas on a sandy beach and listening to Jimmy Buffett with Edith 🙂
Do you think that drilling a small hole at the end of and perpendicular to the long axis of the crack and gluing a wooden plug into said hole would keep the crack from running?
Dremel tools have done some very creative cutting for me–things have happened very fast in the past. I sure wished that I'd given more thought to the cut being attempted.
Wonder how it would shoot with some cp or exacts instead of wadcutters?
Does the breech have any positive pressure against the tophat, or is there some play?
word verification…catible. That is what my lap seems to be today.
chuck, you have no idea what competitive air gun shooters are paid (even with endorsements).
In reality if b.b. could shoot that well he'd be in southern Florida sipping Bud…and still writing the blog.
Sad but true for the most part.
Jay,sorry buddy I guess that wasn't my best brainstorm,all things considered.Of course you don't want an awkward Dremel when you have a drillpress.Duh!My biggest problem with Dremel is the damage the spinning collet nut can do to a project.Mr B has a good idea they use on a cracked windshield,if the crack ends with a perfect hole it will stop running. Frank B
Tom, I hope you had Edith shooting that Edge!
at 10 meters anything less than one hole of 1.5x caliber size I would reject as very deffective. You called the Meisters a 'good group' mmmmm not anything to write home about!
and…. is that two stage trigger actually a two stage trigger?
I'd like to think they're already in the Carribean sipping rum drinks and following the blog using wifi.
I spent an entire winter in the carribean a long time ago. Baileys on ice was the local drink on St Thomas. Had all my shots and intended to spend most of the winter in South America but never made it. Got stuck in the islands and Island hopped from St Thomas to St John to Tortola (psylicyben sp? mushrooms grow wild on Tortola 😉 Virgin Gorda etc. Jimmy Buffet was in the air as much as reggae.
Among other things I learned how smart the Rockefellers were and got to see the Nabila (now called the Trump Princess) from about ten feet away. Thanks for triggering those fond memories.
So…you don't think I'll ever see an airgun champion on a box of Wheaties? Well, Bud ain't that bad, I guess, but Florida does get awful crowded during the times you really want to be there.
But then, who'd a thought a stupid game of golf (and I dearly do love golf) would bring in so much dough?
No sisters. Just an older brother. Sorry!
I think that's it. The Edge looks like it's going a thousand miles an hour, so any deviation, no matter how small, seems like sacrilege.
This is a whole gun and has to be evaluated that way. It has some super features like trigger, sights, weights and dry-fire. But it is also a sporter-class gun.
The 853 does a lot, despite the horrible trigger. Maybe I should have tested one of those along with the Edge and the Challenger.
The breech does not push back against the tophat, but it does envelope it to a greater degree than an AirForce sporter. Or maybe it just seems that way because of how solidly the locking notch holds it at firing. You know how your cocking handle flips up when you fire a Talon SS or Condor? Well, the Edge cocking handle doesn't move.
Just to add a bit of seriousness to this place.
I have wondered what Olympic class shooters do receive for recompense.
I know that when I had a tryout for the Canadian Olympic team in the mid 70's (.22 rifle) everything was out of my pocket…even the ammo was to be supplied by me. (I didn't quite cut the mustard so I have no idea what monies were available if you did actually make the team).
What I wonder about in particular is what the European/Asian competitors receive. I get the ISSF (they govern Olympic shooting sports) newletter 4 times a year. It sure looks like the European (especially Eastern) and Chinese/Korean teams get a hell of a lot more respect as athletes than those in America or Canada.
Yep. Even Kim Rhode has had to schlep for Beeman at the SHOT Show. There isn't any money in gold for the shooting sports–save the Bianchi cup, which probably pays for the ammo needed to train to win.
The trigger has two stages.
Great finish on what looks to be a outstanding match rifle. Now if I only had the $$ to get one!!!!
I have a off topic question. Have you seen or have info on the new Evanix rifles coming out & will PA carry them. The Rain Storm http://www.evanix.com/sub/rainStorm_sl.html which looks to be a carbine Blizzard S10, the Windy City http://www.evanix.com/sub/windy_sl.html which is a bottle gun.
+1 on confused about accuracy of the edge…
Is this a one-hole 10m rifle or not? Were the shots on call? Does it come with a test target? Was the rifle clamped down?
I'm pretty sure you'll see the new Evanix rifles go live shortly. I knew there were 2 new guns but didn't know their names til you mentioned them.
Was your island hopping sailing or flying? Also, bet you can't get within 10 feet of the Trump Princess today.
I had the privilege of getting within 100 yds of Paul Allen's "boat" last year in Bonaire. Paul Allen is co-founder of Microsoft. His makes Trump's look like a cabin cruiser. Trumps is 281 ft long where Allen's is 414. Trump has a crew of 48, Allen 60. Don't know what Trump spends but Allen spends 20 million a year on upkeep. He doesn't have to go to work anymore either but Trump does 🙂
A .25 cal. crosman pellet? Hmmm…
Sounds to me like there going to make something in .25 caliber now. huh? Probaly just a Mrdr.
Comparing an 953, 853, challenger, and an edge would be pretty cool.
I think I smell a blog with a shoot off between the 853, the Challenger, and the Edge. Smells good. (Maybe throw in a wild card like the IZH 60 just for giggles)
Two grandmothers? What are you, some kind of animal? You probably have cabin fever, but you have to pace yourself. Its going to be a long winter.
Thanks to everyone who's giving advice on this crack. I've posted a few more pics showing the inside of the cocking arm slot. I don't see how I can get a cutting wheel in there without making unwanted cuts into other areas of the stock. The best approach I can see is to use the spiral cutting bit with the axis vertical to the stock.
I just had an idea of laying a quarter-patch size piece of glass cloth at the bottom of the slot. Epoxied in place, that should have the same effect as pinning, without the cutting. Thoughts?
Your stock looks spectacular in the photos – I thought you were done with it! If I understand your previous post, you're applying subsequent coats of straight RLO with a rag?
B.B. and Edith,
We just got the Wii Fit, and I've quickly learned not to get in the way of my wife and daughter. Skiing? Yoga? Amazing what it will do while giving you a workout. Just make sure you use the hand cord with those controllers!
I wonder if that is a standard 12oz bottle in the Windy City? Does a 10oz exist?
Looking at the shot groups fired for both the Crosman Challenger 2009 and the Edge, I'd say that the Challenger appears to be more consistent (at least pellet friendly). However, I would also attribute some of the improvement to the overall physical design of the Challenger. It's stock appears to be more substantial and overall, it's heavier. For a full-grown man, those details can make a huge difference as far as dampening heartbeat. For a younger (smaller) beginner, or an adult who's taken the time to master the use of the weights and adjustable trigger, the Edge may show some advantages.
Regarding BB's shooting, I can tell you as a former competitive marksman that it takes awhile to be able to shoot your best groups with any gun. I won't question anyone who makes certain claims about what they can do with this or that gun, but see if you can make the same claims right after they've switched guns.
I've gone from shooting a 1600 in smallbore prone, with iron sights, to a 1577 in my next match, after switching from an Anschutz 1413 freestyle rifle to an Anschutz 1407 standard rifle. Both guns are capable of shooting 1600's, but it took some time to get use to the lighter 1407.
I can't say what the absolute ctc accuracy is for the Edge, but the Challenger was reviewed by Hans Apelles, an active world class shooter…
"Hans mounted a scope to his Challenger and did some quick shot groups to see how it performed out of the box – with no preparations or adjustments at all. At 10 yards, his 5 shot group was 1 pellet hole. Not a one hole group mind you, but one pellet hole that would hit the 10 dot on a 10 meter target centered every time! At 25 yards in a little bit of a wind Hans grouped .25” ctc. At 40 yards Hans grouped .75” ctc. Remember this is benched, in an inconsistent wind at 530 fps with 7.9 premiers. Bringing the velocity up to WFTF levels will tighten those distant groups for sure. It’s very, very promising."
BB provides a wealth of value-added insights with each review. One of them is a practical understanding how a choice of pellet will make a difference.
My guess is that if Hans Apelles tested the Edge, he's probably be able to claim a shot group of a single hole at 10 yards. However, because the stock and weight are so different, it would take him some time to demonstrate this level of competence with the Edge.
That's to be expected.
The temp has been below freezing for a month now with single digit temps for many days so yes it could be cabin fever. But I was thinking of only one at a time. Remember the CW song "I'm as good once as I ever once was" (<;
You know, if all you sharp shooters would get on the eMatch with your 953/853/Challenger/Edge we'd see what was what and who could out shoot that Anschuz guy (I just can't let it go.)
One last thing, the in-stock date for the Challenger 2009 keeps slipping. The date has changed four times since I decided to order one. What's up with that?
Seriously, I might just go ahead and order that Anschutz that I was saving up for.
The more I think about it, the more the cloth (or a metal plate if there is room) makes sense. My opinion is that you don't want to try to close the crack mechanically, just provide a stress bearing alternative/supplement to the weak bond across the grains — the less that area flexes, the less likely the crack will grow. If you can get some type of material into the crack from the inside, all the better, but I wouldn't open it up just to do so. Just thinking out loud. I know it would drive me crazy to do nothing, but that there is a good chance whatever you do is going to work:).
Regarding your earlier comment about the figure difference b/t sides — I see this all the time on beech stocks. My cynical opinion is that beech stock are randomly cut and selected knowing full well that most of the figure will be covered with opaque "walnut" stain:). Sadly, beech is harder and denser than walnut, not to mention it has more interesting figure in a lot of cases (now that most walnut is grown for fast, straight growth), and could make a better stock if the wood was selected with the same care. Economics and popular opinion:). There was a time when walnut was relegated to barn rifles:).
I'm not sure what the point of defending BB's skills is. Who cares? The review is of the rifle, not BB. We all know he's a good shooter, and the groups he produced were darn good. But there some outside shots that make one wonder. The rifle is probably capable of one-hole…but we don't have that proof here.
Having BB shoot off-hand or artillery hold or whatever for most pistols/rifles is fine, but not for people considering a match rifle for precision work.
Your point about adapting to a rifle is well taken, but irrelevant. Ultimately every serious shooter adapts to his rifle or trades it if it doesn't work out. But its a pointless exercise if the rifle itself cannot hold a winning score.
Further, just about every "very good" 10m rifle shooter I know can make a 10-ring-capable 10m rifle at least hold the 9.5+ from a rest.
I realize people buy these rifles and the old FWB300s and 600 for purposes other than 10m competition. Fine, and even so I'm not saying that BB's groups weren't good.
My only point is, I wouldn't buy this for my kid to compete with until somebody proves its potentially a match winner.
I want to believe in the Edge as much as everyone else, and I'd like to see an adult version down the road to compete with Anschutz and FWB. I just want better proof.
My disco is leaking out the refill valve. Any easy fix
Have you called Crosman Customer service? They have all the parts you need, and can advise if a job can be done by the customer.
If the leak were on the firing valve side, taking several dry-fire shots might dislodge a particle of dirt, but the inlet side isn't that easy.
Easy to island hop if you have a little money. Ferry's and shuttle boats.
I didn't have any money so most the time I would cruise the docks and trade a ride for some bright work or light carpentry work or crewing for barefoot cruises.
For a guy from landlocked Colorado it was interesting to me to walk the dock at Christmas time. I remember one little boy sitting on the dock next to his liveaboard playing with his slot car and track he got from Santa since there wasn't room on his daysailer to play.
Thanks for the compliments about the renegade stocks. No, they're far from done. Many more coats of RLO to go. I apply the coats of RLO with lint free camera lens wipes. The ones I've been using are made by pec pad (99.999% free of contaminants) lint free, ultra soft.
It's what I had around here. Anything like that would work but I wouldn't use an old rag/tee shirt for final applications.
An update on my Hammerli 490, and some questions: Besides my lack of good shooting or technique, the 490 seems to be doing very well! On to my questions: 1. What should the 490 be able to do to, say, a tin can or other household object? 2. What would be 2 good spring airsoft guns (can be 2 different or the same) to use for plinking or doing very informal 1v1 battles with that are less than or equal to $50 in total? I've been looking at the UTG 47SA Warhawk and am thinking about getting 2 of those or that and a Well M16A4, any thoughts?
I'm glad you're enjoying the 490 and have been wondering how you were getting along with it.
1. A 490 should be able to pierce one side of a tin can and dent the other with Basics from ~10 yards. At least that's what I think mine does. Occasionally, or with pointed pellets, it will go through the other side or at least start a tear. Is that about what you are seeing? I have to admit that I haven't tried my 490 in this way in some time.
2. I don't know anything about Airsoft.
Yikes! If I bought a 'match' gun that shot like that, I'd send it back as defective! I own 11SPRINGERS that will all outshoot this unit.
Well BB, I think you should have just shot one pellet with this rifle and shown everyone the target and tell 'em that's a 10 pellet target :). That'll get em going. Of course, I'm joking.
Actually if you are a serious competitor and are looking for the next sure fire top tool, I'd agree that you might want to wait to see how the rifle behaves in competition with others shooting it. On the other hand, why not be one of the "others"? It seems that you shouldn't have a problem selling it for a minor loss of maybe $50 to $100 on the Yellow if it doesn't measure up to your expectations.
Myself, I'm in a real quandary. I'm doing a marketing trip out of state tomorrow (across the border from the People's Republic of NJ) and have an opportunity to buy the Crosman NPSS. I noted from the blog the other day that no one has one, even though BB has reviewed it. I'd like to add a gas piston to my collection but…..
What to do, what to do. No one tell my wife, please.
Hey Frank B., I'm starting to get pellets in the 9 ring on the target with that IZH 46. Maybe 3 out of 5. I flipped the rear sight so I have a wider slot to sight with and zeroed it in so that it responds to my shooting technique. I'm sure from a resting position, the sights are way off but this works for me. More practice needed.
Fred of the PRNJ
I don't know what the pros get as far as compensation but, one of the girls at our club landed a full boat ride to Penn. State University punching holes in paper! That's got to be worth 30K+ not bad ha?
Vanago County 4-H Deadeyes
That's odd, since my 490 doesn't seem to even dent a tin can (with wadcutters). I'll check again soon, but if it doesn't do anything to it should I return it to Pyramydair or what could be the problem?
I guess I missed .175 grouping. That's good. I wonder how well the Edge would perform with a scope?
With my 953, I generally hit around .125 with a scope and .250 on a good day with the target sights. I haven't had a lot of practice with the target sights. I started at around .300 when I first started using them. With the original open sights I was hitting under .400.
Here's an idea of how weak (or strong, if you're optimistic :P) my 490 is. It cannot pierce a standard 17 oz coke bottle. It certainly hits it hard, but it does not go through it, even with Crosman Destroyers (I have no actual pointed pellets on hand). Hope that helps.
Your island hopping experience sounds like it was fun unless you were being facetious about the fond memories. Because it also sounds like there may have been some going hungry days, too. Is that so? It takes a lot of grit to live day to day like that. Sounds like there's an interesting story in you. You said you didn't have any money but did you have some kind of regular job to fall back on and only needed extra cash for traveling? Maybe I'm prying. Sorry. It sounded like a great adventure to me.
How about you check a tin can with several shots using RWS Basic pellets at 10 yards and let me know the result. I'll then (pending weather) do the same, especially to verify my recollection. Perhaps someone else with a 490 could do the same. Then we would have some decent data to compare. Your description sounds weak, but those ultra-lightweight pellets don't carry much punch downrange, if I'm not mistaken.
BG_Farmer, I am talking about using Gamo Match pellets, which are actually .9 grains heavier than RWS Basics. Fortunately, I have some basics on hand, so I'll test it when I have time (probably this weekend).
You're not prying. I opened the door.
Lots of fond memories. Not being facetious. Never hungry but took lots of showers with iguana's.
I "didn't have money" because I didn't have a job and didn't want a job because traveling was my goal.
At that time I committed to take a year off from the working world so I could travel. I leased my home for a year and put my small pile of money in my pocket. Back then you could buy an airline ticket that was good for a year and was good for 15 or so (don't remember) stops as long as you traveled in the same direction. Once you deducted this transportation expense it was easy to figure how much you had to live on each day. A budget for a year. Great accidental lesson everyone should experience. Didn't take any grit just frugality.
While touring the southern USA I ended up in Florida. I spent several weeks there naively trying to hitch a ride on a sail boat to the islands to save a stop on my airline ticket. Met up with a guy that had a palatial home in coconut grove. Offered me some work and promised at the end of this work a free trip to St Thomas on his personal sailboat (56 foot morgan). After a couple days I figured out that he was an importer (blow). Prison wasn't part of my plan so I continued to look for a boat ride to the islands.
Shortly thereafter I came across a friend of a friend and he told me my timing was good (September-October) to be able to crew a delivery of a sailboat to the Virgin Islands since many vessels left at that time from Florida to prepare for the charter season in the Virgin Islands that begins in November-December for tourists that want a pampered week onboard a sailboat in the Virgin Islands. Apparently some luxury sailboat owners focus on the business side of sailboat ownership and rent their sailboats in Florida during the summer season and then send their boats to the Virgin Islands for the winter season. Very lucrative.
Fortunately this friend of a friend pointed out that this was also hurricane season and for someone (like me) that had never spent more than an afternoon on a sailboat, committing to crew a medium size sailboat for delivery to the Virgin Islands during the hurricane season would not be wise. He introduced me to several people that were willing to take me on as a greenhorn crew member in exchange for a "ride" but were also honest in saying since I was green I would be expected to do all the c&%*p jobs and be at the wheel during the night. In addition they talked about salt sores and the number of boats/yachts lost each year during this migration to the islands.
I opted to fly from Florida to St Thomas instead.
I spent 3 weeks in Larrys Hideaway (oposite side of the island from charlotte amalie) and spent $1.50 per night for a bed in a tent. Fit my budget. Footnote: One day while hitching from that side of the island to the "tourist" side I was delayed by a garrison of police and barricades on the road. After slowly inching our way through this traffic jam in the middle of the jungle where you usually didn't see anyone (let alone a traffic jam) we eased passed and were in town in another 15 minutes or so. Later in the day we found out that the "frenchies" had hung a "dark islander" from a tree because he had raped a frenchy. Eye opener.
Buy me a scotch and I'll tell you about the real adventure on this trip.
Glenlivet,or Bladnoch?…Bartender…Two more please……Go on Kevin,we've got all nite. Frank B
I'll bring the Glenlivet!
Wow! We've got our own raconteur!
Your island-hopping stories are riveting. Makes my humdrum existence seem boring. I'll have to make up some new stuff just to keep up.
Any time you want to guest blog some of this, just let me know.
I don't know the UTG Warhawk, but I can tell you this about an airsoft gun selling for $25. Don't expect a lot of longevity. These are throwaway guns at best. You may get 1,000 shots, you may get 5,000 shots. Nobody knows.
What is known is the cheapies don't last forever.
That said, look for a spring-powered repeater with as simple an action as possible. A pistol over a long gun, because long guns cost more to build and have to be made even cheaper.
I have found the UTG 904 1911A1 pistol to be pretty good and decently accurate.
Here is another post with Edge groups and shot count:
This guy was quite impressed.
Thanks for that post. Maybe I need to take a look at my gun. That guy got very tight groups.
Master of off topic maybe. Raconteur hardly.
Wasn't raconteur the offspring of Pasipha and a white cow on Crete? 😉
Humdrum indeed. Rubbing shoulders with TV stars.
I'll have to think long and hard about how that year of travel relates to airguns in order to consider a blog topic.
Part of the adventure I was referring to were the Americans cut down on the golf course with machine guns. Not a pretty story and best told over a stiff one rather than a nice place like this.
I'm impressed with the accuracy of this gun! I've shot alot of ten shot groups with it,and the more I shoot the gun,the better they (or I ) get.:) Ron http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d86/rks1949/air%20guns/102_0271.jpg
Nice shooting. Thanks for your update and please keep them coming.
PS WV ='s pathed–refuring to CJr's lust for said gun.. Chuck, pull the trigger and go fot it. Easy for me to say, right?
I think you have an amazingly tough job, even though it's a fun job. When you present a cheap gun and it shoots as good for you as an expensive airgun, people think you are on the take from the manufacturer or under pressure from Pyramid to make only positive post. If you give a gun a less than stellar review, a lot of airgunners laugh and say you don't know what you are doing or your gun would have shot better. I think you have the best approach, just test them and report the findings. If it shoots good, it shoots good. If it doesn't shoot good, it doesn't shoot good. Another thing that makes your job hard is that you have time restrains that require that guns sometimes be tested on the windy day or in cold weather. That's a factor you cannot control but it does affect the results you report.
The reason I posted the link to the groups and shot count was because it gives the readers insight on how another Edge shoots. As anyone who has shot airguns for any time will know, there are a whole lot of factors that can affect how a gun shoots.
Your link did a lot of good for me. I was jarred out of my complacency and have been on the trail of the cause for yesterday's performance.
I know Mike Reams, the guy who shot those groups on the Yellow. He is certainly a good shot, but he's isn't that much better than me. So I am taking a long hard look at this Edge, to see if something may have been wrong when I shot those groups.
I plan on posting the results, so you have done nothing beyond promoting another part to the report.
I'm so glad that you are getting such good results with your rifle. You and several others have convinced me to dig deeper into this and find out why I didn't get such good results.
And as Mike (the guy who provided the test groups) said, "As I become more comfortable with this rifle, I think my groups will improve…".
As you know, the same applies to you, me, everyone.
Again, that's to be expected.
BB,I need a little information on the rear diopter sight on the Edge. There is a small set screw on the left rear side of the sight. Could you tell me what this is for? I have little experience with diopter sights,and can't find anything in the manual, refering to this set screw,or it's function? Ron
That's an assembly screw. Leave it alone. Just turn the appropriate adjustment knob when you want to move the point of impact.
All diopter sights are somewhat complex inside. They are not things to be taken apart by the owner.
I read your report on the rifle's accuracy. It seems to be performing well for you, no?
It is,performing well, until I had a fill valve failure.:( The little O ring inside the foster male fitting broke. AF is sending out a new fitting,so all should be well with the gun. I spent New Year's Day (afternoon) at a gun club. They have a indoor novelty shoot each year on New Year's Day. One of the shooter's there was at one time a Nationally ranked High Power Bench Rest Champion. He shot the Edge off a rest @ 20 yds. and hit 27 asprin in a row off golf tee's. That told me all I needed to know about the accuracy of the gun!:)He liked the diopter sights. There were around 100 shooter's there,and I think about all of them handled the Edge at one time or another. After he shot it,I didn't,so as not to embarass myself.:)Ron
Thanks for that update. And thanks fort telling us what you did about it. I wish more people would act that fast when something happens to their gun
Here's hoping you'll be back in action soon.
To be fair to each rifle and pellet combination, groups should be shot by tge rifle from a rest or better yet, mounted in a vice. This takes the potential human error out of the equation.
I also just got an Edge with serial number below 100. I'm by no means an olympic shooter but am capable of one pellet sized five shot groups from a bench rest. Pilks had one such setup at Nationals this summer.
The 853, 753, 888, and 887, along with the 2009 crossman are all capable of recording one pellet diameter five shot groups with one match pellet. It's been done by more than one of our shooters.
Imagine my surprise when the Edge would not even hold the 9 ring. This from 3 of my better shooters with 5 different match pellets. B10 heavy, R10 light, Meisters, Diablo Basic and competition green from CC.
I've really wanted this rifle for my daughter as she is rather petite. The trigger and sights are great but the 12" barrel and the way it is mounted in the shroud does not conform to current thinking about free floating the barrel. Perhaps it is here that the accuracy issue lies and a longer lothar barrel clamped as is might solve the issue.
I'm thinking about returning this rifle as it simply is not accurate enough for even 3p competition in it's current configuration. It really saddens me that this rifle is just not as accurate as it should be. I hope that this is an isolated case and someone can show me how to correct this issue.
Well, I disagree that any Daisy 753 or 853 can hold a one pellet-sized hole group of five at 10 meters. I have tested too many of them, plus I used to coach a youth shooting team that used them. They are good–just not that good.
No airgun tested by a top maker uses a vice. Feinwerbau and the rest all shoot over a rest with humans on the guns.
But you know what? I'm going to use a vice for the next test. So watch and we will all see how this turns out.