Looking back at the FWB C-20 pistol – Part 1

by B.B. Pelletier

Pete Zimmerman has been both a reader and contributor to this blog and many of you know that his interest lies with 10-meter shooting. Today, he’s going to begin telling us about his special target pistol.

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by Pete Zimmerman

FWB C-20

First, some history

The first air pistol that I owned I inherited from my father-in-law, who gave me his ancient Diana 5-series pistol. By the time I got the old breakbarrel gun, its barrel had been chewed to pieces by 20 years of summer afternoons when my wife’s family shot darts at a target. But it was fun to shoot with pellets until it finally died. Then, I bought a Diana 6-series semi-match pistol when I visited Hamburg. That was a great gun to learn on because it had a recoil-compensating system, so the slap-smash recoil pattern of the old five-series pistol was gone. Even so, it was too heavy, and took too much effort in the cocking.

That problem of the double recoil from airguns had to be solved if really high accuracy in a match was ever to be achieved. Two post-World War II German companies found ways to make an air pistol almost recoilless. The Dianawerk used two opposed pistons, one going forward, and the other backward, in what was called the Giss system — after its inventor. If both pistons could be timed identically, then the major part of the spring recoil would be equalized out. Feinwerkbau took a different approach. It decided to mount the entire action on rails so the recoil energy would be coupled into a heavy, freely sliding sledge that recoiled smoothly so the gun didn’t bounce. For FWB, this was an adaptation of a match rifle action of the highly successful 300 series. From its introduction in 1965 until the late 1980s, the FWB-65 ruled international competition; in 1992, shooters using FWB guns took all the airgun medals at the Olympics. Only well into the 1990s was the FWB-65 definitively surpassed — by guns from the same company.

Despite mechanical compensation, my old Diana match pistol still had a noticeable kick, and even the FWB-65 was not perfectly still. So, how to make a better match pistol? The obvious idea was to get rid of the piston and the spring; the first advance was high-quality, single-stroke pneumatic power, but those guns still had the disadvantage of having to be cocked shot-by-shot. Easy enough for a short time, but over the length of a match it can be fatiguing and distracting.

Could cocking be eliminated entirely? It wasn’t a new idea. Carbon dioxide had been used to shoot pellets for decades; usually, the gas came packaged in the standard 12-gram capsules, much like those used to make seltzer water. But there’s a problem: it takes 85 shots to complete a men’s match: 15 sighters and 60 shots for score. If you’re successful, a further 10 for the finals. To be certain that gas pressure doesn’t drop at the end, just when the competitive pressure is at its peak, a shooter would like to have at least 10 more shots in reserve for a total of 95 shots to complete a match in comfort. The problem was that those little 12 gram capsules were just too small. The solution was bulk-fill CO2 in a tank under the barrel of the pistol — a system patented by Austrians Emil Senfter and Viktor Idl. Their partnership foundered, and Senfter took the basic design first to Walther and later to Steyr-Mannlicher, resulting in the world-beating Walther CP-1 and Steyr LP-1. Idl approached FWB, which then produced the C-2. Much of this information comes directly from some e-mails I had with Frauke Umdasch of Steyr, where Herr Senfter remains on the payroll.

The FWB Model 2 and the Walther and Steyr pistols look almost like triplets as a result.

Enough history! On to the pistol…in tomorrow’s blog.

Note the barely visible rocker just under the charging cover. That’s used to set the gun for dry firing or live fire.

75 thoughts on “Looking back at the FWB C-20 pistol – Part 1

  1. Mean looking gun ,and now when we are on the subject of “gun aristocracy” like HW,Diana… ,turns out that only spring that fits in my 34 is the one from HW 80,but nevermind i cant find that spring here in Croatia aither 🙁 .20(or more days ago as you know i have decided to replace broken spring on 34 so i called Zagreb(Croatia capitol) ,turns out that there is only one store that have parts for Diana(IN WHOLE STATE)guy working in shop said “i dont know do we have spare parts here is the mobile phone of our gunsmith “(he dont know ???)ok i call him(gunsmith) ,he said than “call me for 10 days” and i do , i waited and after 10 days i call him again and ask – he said again call for a 10 days ,and i do call him yesterday (on his mobile phone???that store gave me )now he said that he is on the vacation and he dont know do they have it and he gives me a number of store-house of the shop ,i call them too and then i politely ask “do you have spring for …” well you know -they dont know they said ask our gunsmith _i said that i did , another guy (insolted) asked me “who gave you this number?”i said your gunsmith -they are threathing me like a young monkey ……and now i have my own financial problems and can t afford to buy 60 euro spring….


    • Milan (formerly C-S),

      is it not possible to order the spring for your 34 from outside Serbo-Croatia? Are there restrictions on importing a simple spring?

      Fred PRoNJ


      • Fred yes it is possible just for now it is too expensive for me ,say if i order spring from Bratislava i must to spend minimum 65 euro and then there is a shipping about 15 euro,taxes ….i swear just the other day i bought spring for Slavia on a market place for 5 dollars(now i have them 5 🙂 )… and Fred it was Croatia-Serbia ,here where i live it is easy for them to call me nationalist (which i am not 🙂 )



          • Milan

            Wow! It sure seems tough to find what you need for your hobby in your country.

            Somehow, I was picturing the “gunsmith” wearing old black leather jacket, un-filtered cigarette dangling from mouth, 1/2 empty vodka bottle on table and very old soviet style mobile phone in hand (size & weight of brick). Sorry for stereotype, but that is my vision based on too many hollywood movies about eastern europe.

            I wish you could come here to the States to live in “Airgun Paradise” where you can find (almost) anything you need for our hobby, any time you need it!


            • Brian- it is even worse than that ,you see people here all drive new cars,they have two or three houses -and buying all on credit cards ,in short we live like Americans but we are in debt like a Greece 🙂


              • Brian and Milan:
                Is the Gun dealer any thing like ‘Boris the Blade’ from the film ‘Snatch’?
                I had better not do a link but check him out on Youtube.
                A great film with great characters including believe it or not Bradd Pitt.
                He got flamed for his characters accent by the film critics but I have met ‘Pikeys’ and they are a funny bunch indeed.
                Mr Pitt did a good acting job in my opinion.
                DaveUK




  2. Pete,I admire your experience and ability as a match shooter.Thanks for the overview on FWB and it’s developement in my lifetime.One of my early airgun collecting discoveries was a FWB 150 w/ a period 4x Bushnell scopechief II.This one never saw a shooting team,just Alabama squirrels which it “stacked like firewood”.I’m anxious to read more from your perspective.Thanks…


  3. Thanks Pete Zimmerman. Wonderful history lesson. Although I’m not much of a 10 meter guy I looked into the steyr lp50. Semi-auto, rapid fire that some put into a carbine stock. Scott, one of our local shooters, owns a lp50. Amazing guns with unreal accuracy that I think were designed for some rapid fire event? He gets over 100 shots out of that little air cylinder.

    Can’t wait for part 2.

    kevin


  4. Have to add one other thing. Although my experience with the current 10 meter pistols is very, very limited I remember looking at an exploded view of the steyr lp50. Amazing and scary. Looked like an exploded view of a rolex. A mind boggling feat of engineering especially those with electronic triggers.

    kevin


  5. Pete:
    I always find it interesting to read how each of us got into shooting air guns.
    Often more by luck than design.
    The quest for a recoilless match pistol is a fascinating story.
    Cheers.
    Back in the mid 80’s the Saxby and Palmer Orion6 using the air cartridge system was raved about so much I think it was seen as the ‘Holy Grail’ of recoilless pistols for a while in Britain.
    Having to pump up to 95 cartridges 8 times each would have not made it a very good match pistol though 🙂
    DaveUK

    DaveUK


  6. Mr Zimmerman,

    Very interesting. Thanks for the history lesson. How do they get so many shots out of such a small reservoir? You’ve got me waiting with eager anticipation for tomorrow’s installment.

    Mr B.


  7. I have tried to change stock of the Slavia 634(it is just too short for me ) with the one of 631 and it can be done 😉 ,now i have found the old stock of 631 and i now i just have to sand it and finish it 🙂


  8. BB:
    Thank you for that background as to what stress our UK manufacturers and suppliers have to labour under.
    I knew it was bad,but not that bad 🙁
    Maybe that also goes a long way in explaining why the ‘Sussex Sabot’ pellet disappeared off the market over here.
    It wasn’t banned as far as I know,it just disappeared.
    When the manufacturers advertised these pellets,there was a small caveat in red writing warning that they may push your air gun over the limit.
    Seeing how well they performed in my mates crosman multi pump pistol,that was a distinct probability in an air rifle.

    Brian in Idaho:
    You are correct.
    We can’t get mail order/online air guns any more.
    Not that I have had experience yet but I can see it being a real inbuggerance.
    The nearest Gun store near me is over 10 miles away.
    I don’t know whether the dealer who is receiving the air gun on my behalf gets commission either and whether that affects the price.
    I do know that I would feel real bad buying stuff from one place and relying on these good blokes at my local gun store just for a convenient repository.
    Buying and selling air guns privately between individuals is another can of worms altogether.
    I still don’t know what the score on that one is.
    DaveUK


    • Dave,

      Yes! That Sussex Sabot sounds exactly like what I was trying to describe.

      Many years ago, Ivan Hancock, one of the world’s most respected spring-piston airgun modifiers and designers, detuned a Webley Patriot back to under 12 foot-pounds, where it became one of the sweetest, most docile spring guns ever. It was a nice exercise, but I learned that it could never be sold as a legal limit gun, because it had once been “certified” (recognized as) an FAC gun. Once in that category, there is no going back. So from that I gathered that the UK manufacturers and dealers would do almost anything to keep a gun from ever being declared FAC. Because that would limit its potential salability by a factor of, what, 100?

      B.B.



  9. I’m going to show my ignorance here, but – I’ve always wondered what is the deal with target pistol grips. What is that platform for? Why to they look so blocky? Will you touch on that in the upcoming reports? I’d love to see a photo of how to hold a target pistol – maybe that would be worth 1,000 words describing my questions.


    • Fused,

      Take a look at Part 2 of 10-meter pistol shooting:

      /blog/2008/5/10-meter-pistol-shooting-part-2/

      I explain the purpose of the palm shelf, plus there are photos that show what it does.

      B.B.



        • Found this one:
          /blog/2008/3/10-meter-rifles-part-4-used-10-meter-rifles/
          Still interested in things that will help with offhand shooting rifles. This series seems to be mostly about equipment…


        • Fused,

          I have admitted this before, but I guess you didn’t see it. I am not a 10-meter rifle competitor, so describing how to shoot one in competition is very difficult for me. I do not have the experience to do with the rifle the things I know so well about the pistol.

          I have done some small pieces about 10-meter rifle shooting in the blog, but they are nothing you cannot read from any other gun writer. That is the reason you can’t find what you are looking for here.

          I would really enjoy it if a 10-meter rifle competitor could step in and take over this part of the blog for me. I have asked our readers before, but thus far there have been no takers.

          Don’t get me wrong — I am a fine rifle shot, and I know a lot about shooting long guns. But 10-meter rifle competition has its own special experiences that I unfortunately have never had.

          B.B.


  10. Pete,

    Great history lesson, I really enjoyed it.

    We have been trying to get pistol field target going at some of the clubs. It was a pretty good success last year at the nationals, so more clubs are introducing it. Still no AAFTA rules yet, so everything from 10 meter 4fpe to 20fpe customized PCPs Pifles are being used. Sometimes on the same targets and distances.

    I set up two courses, one standing offhand, for 6fpe and under, iron sights, 1-1/2″ kill zones at 6- 15 yards, and another a “open” sitting or whatever fits ya, course for up to 12fpe with up to 16 power scopes. The kill zones are 3/4″ to 1-1/2″ set at 10 to 31 yards.

    After B.B.s report on the Air Arms Alfa 10 meter PCP pistol, I decided to try that as my FT pistol. Mine doesn’t get as many shots as B.B. got on his test, and it’s shooting the Air Arms Falcon 7.33gr at 504 to 518fps. for about 35 shots with a 2,700 # fill.

    My Alfa is so very accurate, I’m amazed. The open sights are adjustable for spacing, so my fuzzy eyes can actually use them, not too well though since I was only able to get 18/50 in that class, winning score was 21/50, so maybe the course was a little to hard. But, I love that I can mount a scope on it for the scoped class too, and it’s just fine for those 30 yards shots, cause I shot a 42/50 on that course:-)

    Anyway, 10 meter pistols are not just for off hand at 10 meters, a new game is developing for their use in a whole other world…

    Wacky Wayne,
    Match Director,
    Ashland Air Rifle Range


    • Wayne,

      Now that’s what I am talking about for FT. The 10 meter course with 21/50 as a winning score. Much more indicative of real life conditions in the field.

      When I hunted squirrels every day and used a scoped .22lr cartridge I seldom missed even on shots up to 90 yds. But the average shot was more like 25 yds and very seldom did one ever exceed 50 yds.

      But when I used my .22lr target pistol seldom did I ever get my limit of 5 which I did regularly with a rifle. Two per day was about average and 4 hits of 10 shots was real good. Shots averaged about 15 yds so I took way fewer shots and almost never took a shot over 25 yds.

      I did not then hunt with a pellet rifle but suspect the results would have fallen some where in between those of the pistol and rifle. If I were hunting with a .22 cal pellet rifle I would try to stalk or call the squirrel to within 20 yds and limit shots to 35 yds max unless I had a very clear rested shot, then 50 yds max.

      Very few pistols would qualify for squirrel hunting. Two I can think of are the Marauder and the Evanix Renegade. Also a few custom makers like Quackenbush and Barnes and Pacific Pellet Guns make suitable custom guns.


  11. Sorry to go off-topic, but just received email from PA showing featured items, including Radians Coveralls, safety glasses designed to fit over prescription glasses. Just what I want.

    https://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Radians_Coveralls_Safety_Glasses_Clear/3169

    Question to the group. The coveralls come in clear, amber and smoke colors. What are the conditions for which these different colors are intended?

    Right now I’m spending most of my time shooting targets indoors, so I’m guessing the clear glasses are what I want. But I’m curious about the uses of the other colors.

    Thanks!


    • Jim,

      Clear glasses allow you to wear prescription sunglasses underneath. Smoke-tinted glasses are for sun protection. Amber is for better vision in hazy, smoky conditions. They extend the distance at which you can see on a hazy day. Hunters use them a lot.

      B.B.


      • And is it true that polycarbonate lenses blocks UV light? That turned out to be a huge issue with my Dad in choosing shooting glasses. As far as I could tell online, the polycarbonate does the job, but I didn’t find anything that was very authoritative.

        Matt61


        • Thanks for the update. This is a great blog.

          According to Wikipedia, polycarbonate lenses offer good UV protection.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet
          Ordinary, untreated eyeglasses give some protection. Most plastic lenses give more protection than glass lenses, because, as noted above, glass is transparent to UVA and the common acrylic plastic used for lenses is less so. Some plastic lens materials, such as polycarbonate, inherently block most UV. There are protective treatments available for eyeglass lenses that need it, which will give better protection. But even a treatment that completely blocks UV will not protect the eye from light that arrives around the lens.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrective_lens
          Polycarbonate is lighter weight than normal plastic. It blocks UV rays, is shatter resistant and is used in sports glasses and glasses for children and teenagers.

          Wikipedia isn’t an expert witness, but I find it a good quick reference.

          Jim


    • Exactly B.B. I used the yellow every morning for prone matches. The paper used for targets is yellowish, so the yellow (amber) provided better contrast, and YES, they were recommended for hazy weather, which was most early mornings.
      Victor


  12. Pete Zimmerman, thanks for the clear explanation of mechanics. Are target pistols still using CO2? I would think that the velocity change with temperature would be a real problem for target shooters even with the large reservoir. Why not pcp?

    Thanks to all for the advice about the rimfire grip the other day. I see I was on the right track. The firm grip of centerfires didn’t feel appropriate so a light grip will do it.

    On the subject of pistol shooting and natural point of aim, I’ve found myself rethinking the isosceles stance that I’ve settled on. I know not to arch the upper back away from the pistol but to lean into it aggressively. But when you’re holding a 1911, it gets pretty heavy hanging out there at the end of your arms for extended firing. Doesn’t leaning back to allow your body structure to compensate for the weight make more mechanical sense than using your muscles as you would for the forward-leaning stance?

    Matt61


    • Matt61,
      I’ve seen pistol shooters who lean forward a bit, but that’s never worked for me. I found that leaning a tiny bit backwards helps over the long haul. THIS is a matter of fine tuning. For me, the amount at which I lean back is a very fine adjustment. I even noticed that it helped tighten my groups.

      Finding your natural point of aim is critical with any kind of shooting, but is probably more pronounced with pistol shooting. With pistol shooting, you’re fighting more obvious forces that oppose your true natural point of aim. Trying to hold the 9 and 10 ring is a difficult thing to do, so refinement is critical.

      I was taught to close my eyes, bring the gun up, and then take a look at my sight picture. I also realized that it helps to do the same with just seeing how the sights alone align. The wrong pistol grip can cause a discrepancy between how the grip feels, versus the corresponding sight alignment. For instance, the wrong pistol grip may force your front sight upward. If you force the sights to align while shooting, then you’ll see shots go high on occasion, when your tired, or at the tail end of a shot (where you took too long). Similar issues can occur when the sight alignment is off to the left or right. If you have to force sight alignment, then it might be time to apply some kind of putty to force correct alignment.


      • Thanks Victor. Makes sense to me. The forward leaning stance I got from a combat shooting book which is not directed at static positions that you would hold for an extended period. With the bladed one hand target stance this would be less of a problem although not completely eliminated. For the isosceles stance, though, I came across numbers–for those inclined that way–to clarify the problem. In the course of an ergonomics workshop this morning, a medical doctor says that your arm up to the shoulder weighs between 11 and 13 pounds. Multiply that by 2 and add 39 oz. for a 1911 or whatever your pistol weighs. Finding a distance from the body to approximate the force that weight is applying collectively is not a trivial task. But you get the idea that there is a lot of weight hanging out in the breeze that will need some kind of compensator–structural or muscular.

        Matt61


      • No major competitor at the elite level (World Cup, World Championships [just finished in Munich; men’s and women’s golds both to Steyr LP10 and LP10 E, again], or Olympics) uses CO2 for all kinds of reasons, mostly the temperature variation of pressure and hence velocity. That’s not much of a problem for top matches which are shot in air conditioned spaces, but the interior of some gun clubs’ ranges in summer are very hot and in winter freezing cold.

        I think you can get a shorter lock time with compressed air than CO2 as well, not by much but when the world’s record score is 594/600 (again, held by a Steyr), every tenth of a millimeter counts.

        My point, and the last line of the last installment of the blog will say so, is that for most competitors these precision CO2 guns did not turn into junk the morning after the first PCP guns swept into the competition. They are old, parts aren’t always easy to get, but they still shoot very well indeed. All match pistols will outshoot almost all shooters in the sense that clamped to a rest they will pour pellets through a single hole in the middle of the X-ring. The question is how much they help the shooter to extract his or her best results when held in one hand at the end of an outstretched arm.

        They big advances since 1995 are in things like recoil compensation, compensators to stop muzzle jump, and to reduce turbulence at the muzzle. Also, grip technology has improved enormously since my C-20 left the factory in Oberndorf.


        • Smallbore rifle shooters are trying to achieve the same movement cancellation effect. They call it “barrel tuning”. My understanding is that you want the projectile to exit the barrel at precisely the same point as when you pulled the trigger (i.e., corresponding to sight picture).

          What the shooter can do to help reduce the effects of mechanical motion (recoil) is adjust how they shoulder the rifle so that the recoil motion is straight back. This obviously takes experimentation, but is doable with the adjustable butt-plates found in modern target rifles.


        • Pete,

          I’m going to chime in here and say that when I competed at the regional level, I saw many CO2 pistols that were every bit as competitive as pneumatics. I was shooting a CO2 gun myself (the Czech Chameleon). But my gun was an inexpensive entry-level target pistol whose trigger had some creep and whose grip was not as adjustable as the top guns.

          The most important things in a competitive pistol are the trigger, ergonomics and the sights. Your C20 has as nice a trigger as a P34, and they don’t get any better! I now own an Anschütz M10 and it’s trigger is not better than yours. Perfection is difficult to top.

          In the field of pistol ergonomics, I once tested a Steyr CO2 pistol with the same full range of adjustability as a PCP gun. The grip can be adjusted for angle, and kick-out to the right. Once adjusted properly, a grip like that can add points to a match score through increased stability. Even my Anchütz M10 isn’t as ergonomically adjustable as that Steyr CO2 pistol was, although the Steyr M10 is. If I were still a competitor, I’d own either a P40 or an M10.

          But CO2 target pistols made by the top houses are still very competitive.

          B.B.



    • Thank you! To all who wrote nice things, thanks.

      When next I have time to write and take pictures, I’ll be doing a blog on my C-62 CO2 rifle, the end point of FWB development with carbon dioxide (and wooden stocks), and a superb shooter. Assuming BB still wants it. 😉


  13. Another off-topic post …

    Can I add the Leapers “Bug-Buster” Scope to my HW-75? If so, what mounting rings would work?

    The Bug-Buster’s ability to focus down to 3 yards gives me more flexibility in my indoor shooting facilities, and being able to shoot in the back yard without massive re-zeroing of the scope.

    Thanks!

    Jim


    • Jim,

      Yes, you can mount a Bug Buster on an HW 75. But I don’t think it’s a good thing to do. The Bug Buster is going to make pumping the gun extremely difficult. What you want is something that you can use at close range. Why not a simple holographic dot sight? Mac used a dot sight on his Beeman P3 and you saw what he was able to do with that.

      With the Bug Buster you will have to hold the pistol within 3 inches of your eye to see through the scope. That is very difficult to do, and it turns your pistol into a Frankenstein gun that you have to learn to adapt to. A dot sight lets you work at full arm’s extension.

      The HW 75 has a long 11mm dovetail on top and the gun doesn’t recoil, so any 1″ ring set will work. No scope stop is required. I would get thin rings with two-screw caps, just for slightly greater mounting flexibility.

      B.B.


      • B.B.

        Thanks. I already have a red-dot sight that works well. I just have to re-zero it when I change the distance to my target. Your help means I won’t have to spend more money at PA (for now) so I can save my pennies for another airgun.

        Jim


  14. Kevin,

    Kevin,

    I pulled the trigger on my “stepping stone” today. What I was looking for was something that would hold me over until the Ben Taylor Cyclone becomes a reality. For clarities sake, the custom Cyclone is roughly $1400, I wanted to buy something for less than $500.00 that would not make me sad when I shot it.

    Just a couple years ago, the list of PCP’s would have been very small, but with all the new entries my possibilities cup was over flowing. Or was it? As I looked at all the recent players, I was very hopeful. Heck, the Pneumonia is available new for only $299, but I decided if I was not going to take a beating when I cash it in, gently used would be my best bet.

    I started combing the dealers used lists and the classifieds until I found the green apple of my eye. Theses are some of the specs: 5.7 lbs, 40.00 inches and a 1.5 lb trigger pull hailing from Sweden in versatile 22 caliber for $484.00. But the rifle was not labeled an FX. Head scratch. Knowing that FX sold actions to Webley in the past, it was not much of a stretch to believe that other companies had similar arrangements.

    Looking for confirmation I turned to the yellow forum, and sure enough the Logun Solo is an FX Typhoon. The Typhoon is certainly a lessor animal than the Cyclone, but that is to be expected. The package should feel very similar and give the same impressive performance at the target. Yes, I will need to make due without a side-lever and magazine, but that should not be so terrible. A new FX Typhoon sells for $989.00 with a wooded stock. That’s over $500.00 more than the Logun version!

    Here is the weird part, the day after I decide the Logun will be the one, Tom posts at the top of his blog about the pre-owned section at Pyramid Air. He states these are open boxes or 30 day returns. Seriously? Does he read minds? I need to wait to gather the funds, and now I fear daily that someone will notice it.

    So today was the big day, I called PA at 1:32 with goal of paying today and picking up the rifle tomorrow. I get an automated system and record the minutes 1:33, 1:34, 1:35, 1:36, 1:37. as I wait. At 1:38 a real voice tells me I will be helped soon. I imagine Wayne buying all the used rifles while I hold. Finally it is my turn, and the rifle is still in stock.

    Unfortunately, my request to pick it up tomorrow is denied. It would take until Friday to have it ready. However, they will ship it for free and it will leave TOMORROW afternoon. How is it that it will be ready to ship in one day, but not for me to pick up? Do they like paying for shipping? OH well. I have a funeral Friday so I go with FedEx. I ‘ll let you know how it does when it arrives.

    Volvo


    • Volvo,

      Pyramyd Air doesn’t have a manned pickup desk for anyone to come anytime to pick up orders. Customer pickup is available only a few days a week and during limited hours on those days.

      Edith


      • Edith,

        I had checked before about picking up an item and was told of the limited hours that were 11-4 pm during the week. I admit I was also told that a 48 hour time frame was normal. I had every intension of getting the gun Friday until I found out about the funeral today. If they said it would ship Friday it would make sense, but I guess I don’t follow that it will be ready Thursday to be placed on a truck but not handed to me?

        Now usually I get around this by having it sent to a UPS store near me. But they ship Fed Ex now and the PA girl said they will probably not accept a Fed Ex package. Seriously? I picture a Coke and Pepsi driver fighting in the parking lot also.

        The rub is that with the required adult signature I will no doubt need to try and make it to the Fed Ex center to then pick it up, as no one will be able to sign for it at my home. So I will be lucky to have it in a week at best.

        Maybe I’ll get a Fed Ex uniform and trick them tomorrow….


        • You must be pretty close to PA to pick up in person.
          I live half way across the state, but can afford to wait a couple days rather than spend the gas money.
          I always get stuff the next day after they ship it..
          I don’t know what the dollar amount is, but if it is over a certain amount, they will need a signature to leave it.

          twotalon


          • If I seem impatient, I guess I am. When I had over forty airguns a four month wait to get one from Canada went unnoticed. Paul Watts working on one for three months, who cares? Take all the time you need. But I’ve had just one for a while, a single R7 and it is lonely. Yes, I am chomping at the bit. But no sugar cubes for me.


            • I know what it’s like.
              I am impatiently waiting for Tom to finish his report on the HW so I can stop looking at it. Then I can pay off my credit card and not pick up the phone to call PA. I need some cooling off time.

              twotalon



                • Now, that don’t help.
                  I have been thinking about asking what height rings to get, but have been trying to deter myself.
                  I also thought about asking about which caliber is best suited.

                  Then I ask myself if I want a heavier rifle than a 48 even without the scope.

                  You make it tough to resist.

                  twotalon


    • Volvo,

      Congratulations on the Logun Solo. Have complete confidence that this will scratch the itch. Anxious to hear your take on the gun. Knowing you and your impressions of the ben taylor cyclone I’m almost certain the itch will return.

      Sorry to hear you won’t be instantly gratified and must wait a few days. Teenagers. They’re so impatient.

      kevin


    • Volvo,
      Yes you do have to watch those pre-owned items. KidAgain and I were discussing a used scope and who would have the money in a couple days. Next thing I know, I got the money but scope is gone. Worked out okay though, found a new on cheaper elsewhere.

      rikib


    • Volvo,

      Didn’t PA call you back? I happened to be on the phone at the same time as you, (on the dealer line, though), so they didn’t know you wanted that Logan, and had just sold it to me at 1:31, I guess, while you were on hold:-)

      Probably the shipping dance is so Paul can take another gun out, and shoot it for an afternoon and then call it used and send it to you:-) That’s how much this company wants to please it’s customers!

      Just kidding of course… couldn’t resist… but I wouldn’t put it past Paul, he really does go out of the way to make customers happy.

      Wacky Wayne,
      Match Director,
      Ashland Air Rifle Range



    • Drew,

      Two suggestions:

      1-Tape the stock near where you inject the foam since this stuff makes a mess.
      2-Get the slow expanding foam, the type used for sealing around door jams and window frames. The faster expanding foam has been known to crack stocks.

      kevin


  15. Speaking of PCPs though…

    I finally got to shoot the Evanix Rainstorm myself. This was the second one that sold before I received it to play with myself. At least this one is still in the club and I can play with it too.

    This is one sweet 6 lb carbine! 10 shots from an easy to load, all metal magazine. Smooth sidelever and great offhand balance in a very fragile stock (so be careful and don’t handle it rough). Ours is doing an average 37 ft lbs over 30 shots. The first 20 shots are without loss of POI at 50 yards. The next 10 group EVEN BETTER, although they are 3/8-1/2″ low at 50 yards. I wasn’t using a bench rest, just laid her on a bum bag filled with shavings. There was a varied wind from 5-15 and the uplift on the wall was in effect. But with 37fpe, I hardly had to worry about it. I got several 5 shot groups that were a 1/2″ cloverleaf hole. None larger than 3/4″.

    I was using weighed JSB .22cal 18.2gr. We had adjusted the trigger as low as it would go and still cock, and that unfortunately, on our gun, stopped the safety from working, so he will have to adjust it back up for hunting. Even adjusted as low as it would go without working on it, it was still maybe 2 lbs. Too much for the best bench rest groups a guy could get, but perfect for a hunting rig, which is what it is, of course!

    The shroud works very well, the ping of the spring is louder than the report! Like I said the stock is fragile at the pistol grip, but the quality of the woodworking is top notch. A very solid well made action that is based on the full sized Blizzard, which I also loved and got great groups from in my thumb hole stock version, (that I see PA doesn’t sell anymore, at least that I can see).

    For a $600 rig, I’m really impressed with the quality and accuracy. And the way this company changes products, who knows if you’ll be able to get one in a few months. I wish I could get my thumb hole Blizzard back:o(

    Wacky Wayne,
    Match Director,
    Ashland Air Rifle Range


    • Wayne,

      Want to get rid of that “ping”? I have a $1.50 solution. Might be less money depending on the od of your airtube.

      Couldn’t stand the ping in the cyclone so I know first hand it works.

      kevin



      • Kevin,

        The ping doesn’t bother me too much, but if it’s an easy fix, why not?

        Volvo,
        I haven’t tried the Logan line at all yet, so I can’t compare to the Evanix line.
        I do think the trigger on the Rainstorm, out of the box, would most likely be a problem for you, since you’ve been spoiled in the past, but the overall quality of the Blizzard I owned, and two Rainstorms I’ve seen and now one I’ve shot, is almost up with Air Arms, and a step up from the Marauder, both in the action and stock. I am impressed.

        TwoTalon,

        The stuff you’ve been listing on the Yellow has not been “Junk”, or maybe I want to be your trash man:-)

        Wacky Wayne


        • Wayne,

          The fix is easy. Determine the od (overall demension of your airtube. i.e., 1 1/4″, 1 1/2″ etc.). Shoot the gun out of air completely. Go to your hardware store, homedepot, lowes, etc. and buy a 1/2″ length of clear vinyl tubing. Should find it in the plumbing section. Cut a 45 degree slit in the tubing. Make sure the tubing is clean, wrap it tightly, and stuff it in your airtube about 1/3 of the way down the airtube. Reassemble. Here’s a tutorial:

          http://www.fxoc.info/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=621

          kevin


  16. Kevin,
    Thanks for the congratulations. I could have way too much fun with the gratification thing so I will let it go. : 0 )

    Wayne,
    I considered some of the Evanix rifles but was concerned about the overall quality and the triggers, sounds like you approve however.

    Twotalon,
    I would guess you would enjoy the HW97 very much. Like I’ve stated before it was my most accurate springer. The weight is felt lifting it out of the rack, but not when you hold it as the balance is good. It also does not mind being shot off a soft rest. My .177 was at 935 fps with CPL’s after a tune, so very flat shooting too..you need one!


    • Ouch ouch ouch. My arm is being twisted!

      What I want is decent velocity with heavy pellets. I have a starling magnet in my back yard that pulls them in in the winter. The way the wind twists and swirls makes it difficult with light pellets, and at times even the heavies.
      My TSS has been my main starling wacker for a while. Lower 800’s with cph. Can’t use the Talondor because I’m in a small town.
      Quite a few times I can only get a head shot because the crabapple is very brushy. Open sights work at times, but can’t be sure if I have a good shot.
      You won’t believe how many times a very small twig was in the way and deflected the shot.

      I need to have a garage sale and dump all of the junk guns.

      twotalon



    • My only experience with .20 has been my sheridan, but not that much.
      Accuracy under adverse conditions must be the rule of the day.
      The less I have to guess about the wind the better.

      Need to think about it some more.

      twotalon


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