by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Webley Rebel multi-pump pneumatic air rifle.
This report covers:
• Why so much trouble?
• Rebel’s sights not easy to use
• A field fix for the sights?
• Today’s test — Crosman Premier lite pellets
• H&N Field & Target pellets
• JSB Exact Heavy pellets
• H&N Baracuda Match pellets
Today, we’ll look at the first accuracy test of the Webley Rebel multi-pump pneumatic. I told you last week that this test was scheduled for a certain day and I had so much trouble with the rifle that I had to write about something else. Today,I’m going to tell you why.
Why so much trouble?
I’m used to testing airguns. I do it so often that it’s difficult for one to fool me. But the Webley Rebel did! I started shooting the rifle at 10 meters using the open sights. I loaded Crosman Premier 7.9-grain pellets (Premier lites) for the sight-in and also for the first group. My plan was to shoot 5 pellets, and if the group was small enough — at 10 meters — I would shoot another 5 at the same target, completing the 10-shot group. If it wasn’t small enough, I would move to another bull and shoot a different pellet. That saves me time, which with a multi-pump is really necessary! Naturally I shot from a rest, because we’re interested in how the gun shoots, not how I shoot.
Rebel’s sights not easy to use
The Rebel’s sights are very difficult to use. The rear green fiberoptics are very bright, causing the rear notch to blur, and the front bead is 3 times larger than necessary. So, when I completed 5 shots with Premiers and saw the group was over one inch between centers, I blamed the sights.
I tried to mount optical sights on the gun. As it happened, all my optics were on other guns, and I couldn’t find the right combination of rings to go with the ones that were available. After 90 frustrating minutes, I set the rifle aside and moved to a new topic for that day’s blog.
A field fix for the sights?
Several of you have told me to black out fiberoptics with a Sharpie pen, so before today’s test I remounted the rear sight and attempted to do that. I don’t know if you have ever tried this, but Sharpie ink doesn’t stick to fiberoptic tubes very well. I got them dimmed but not blacked out all the way. Then, I had a thought.
Since it was the upper edge of the rear notch that was blurry, I would hold a fine bead (look it up) and use the bottom of the notch, which is more definite. It worked!
Today’s test — Crosman Premier lite pellets
So, I’m thinking everything is okay and back to normal and won’t this be a humorous anecdote for all of you. Then, I shot the first group of Crosman Premiers. Five shots went onto 1.125 inches — AT 10 METERS! Oh, no! It’s as bad as it was the other day.
Five Premier lites made this 1.125-inch group at 10 meters. This isn’t good, and there’s no sense finishing it.
But what if this rifle just doesn’t like Crosman Premier lites? Oh, that’s easy enough for me to say, and all you have to do is read it and accept that was the problem; but in many years of testing, I’ve never had Premier lites turn in a performance like this.
But this time they did. But the next pellets I shot did much better.
H&N Field & Target pellets
I tried H&N Field & Target pellets next. In all the years I’ve been testing airguns, I’ve never gotten good results from this pellet. I’m sorry to say the head size isn’t printed on the tin. And don’t look for them on the Pyramyd Air website — they’re no longer made.
The first 5 shots were okay, so I completed the 10-shot group. Ten pellets went into 0.50 inches at 10 meters. While that isn’t great — when you consider the sights I was using, it wasn’t bad!
Ten H&N Field & target pellets went into 0.50 inches at 10 meters. While this isn’t stunning, it does show some promise for the Rebel.
JSB Exact Heavy pellets
The H&N Field & Target is a pure lead pellet, where the Premier lite is a hard alloy pellet. I thought that might have something to do with the results, so trying JSB Exact Heavy pellets seemed logical. The head size is 4.52mm. Ten of them made a group that measures 0.703 inches at 10 meters. Not as good as the H&Ns, but much better than the Premier lites.
Ten JSB Exact Heavy pellets went into 0.703 inches at 10 meters.
H&N Baracuda Match pellets
The last pellet I tried was the H&N Baracuda Match. I had a feeling these might be the best pellets for the rifle, because they often are in other pneumatics. But not in the Rebel. Ten Baracudas made a 1.263-inch group at 10 meters. The head size is 4.50mm. This group does have 9 pellets in 0.667 inches, and I know that shot 9 was the one that went to the right, because I saw it hit the paper. But I didn’t pull that shot, so this group is representative of what Baracudas can do in the Rebel I’m testing.
Ten H&N Baracuda Match pellets went into 1.263 inches at 10 meters — the largest group of the test. But 9 made a 0.667-inch group, so they may not be so bad.
In case you didn’t notice, the pellet I liked the least — the H&N Field & Target — did the best in today’s test. This Rebel turned everything upside-down!
Okay, I overcame the open sights today; but I have to tell you, I’ve already had optical sights on this rifle and they make this rifle very hard to pump! When you can’t hold the receiver with one hand because a scope tube gets in your way, you have to hold the rifle back at the pistol grip. It’s just too hard to pump the Rebel that way. I have to find some way to mount a sight that leaves some room for my hand on the receiver. I have an idea. I just hope it works!
173 thoughts on “Webley Rebel multi-pump pneumatic: Part 3”
Interesting, Does that mean we’re gonna be seeing the Integramount soon?
I see one user reviewer on Pyramid fit a Williams site on the Rebel which he said fit right on the dovetail.
I picked up a webley rebel in .22cal just about 1 mos ago and have been pleasantly surprised. At 17 yards it is practically shooting 1 hole groups with 18.1g and 15.8g jsbs. I didn’t have much luck with FTT but I was using head sizes of 5.53 and 5.54. I never bothered to try the open sites and went straight to a bug buster with medium height rings. I was expecting the gun to fail by now but it has held up after almost 200 shots. The gun out shoots my 392 with ease and that’s after removing the over spray at the end of the barrel.
I haven’t gotten to test the gun out at further ranges but plan on doing so when the wind and temperature cooperate.
Would PA send you one in 22 cal for a review? Your results would be interesting. At full power my gun is shooting about 16ft/lbs.
Glad you got a good one! Webley that is. but it sounds like you may have the same problem with your 392 that I’ve struggled with. I just realized (the other day when we were discovering Galvanic corrosion) that I need to repaint it. I think I’ll be waiting to see what color the Integramount is so I stand a better chance of matching it but I’ll have to wait for the temp to rise first, 30F here with 25 mph gusts.
On the topic of your annual Christmas gift list, I have a few suggestions.
First is the Plano double scoped-rifle case.
Second is the Daisy Powerline 953.
Thirdly, for a scope, I would have recommended the Leapers Goldenimage 3-9 X 32. Light, cheap and bright. PA apparently doesn’t sell them anymore. In its stead I will recommend the Leapers Bugbuster. 3-9 X 32. Being able to focus clearly down to 3 yards is very cool. Splitting palmetto bugs in half is even cooler.
Lastly, I suggest you buy Edith something nice.
Those are good suggestions, except for the scope. I don’t want to do scopes because they take too much explanation.
B.B. Indeed, we can all suggest ideas for your Christmas list ! Good grief, let’s not start this …” I would think that a..etc.” It is an excellent list, it is your list, so let’s leave alone. Let’s say, everyone just make their own list, print it, and keep it to themselves..Maybe tape it one the wall.
Thank you, once again, for all your excellent very hard work on these blogs,..Oh,and Edith too !
I was thinking the same thing, except that yesterday, Kevin suggested some things that really should have recommended. So I will give it one more shot, but not everything you see here will be on my list.
BB already stated that he would do a part 3 on the previous blog. I was not criticizing his list. His lists are dang near perfect. I own 7 items from his first list, and 6 items from his second. I was merely trying to provide helpful suggestions. On very rare occasions, it is conceivable but unlikely that even BB might overlook something he might like to include. GF1 and Kevin also provided suggestions. But thanks for singling me out.
I, for one, would be interested in hearing what suggestions you might have for a list of airgun related gifts. After all, that is what the comments are for, discussions of things previously unsaid. The comments don’t cost much, and one can easily skip the ones that fail to catch their fancy. Even so, I am sorry if I wasted your time.
I have actually already printed up my list, complete with holiday-appropriate embellishments on the borders. Unfortunately, I am all out of tape.
Maybe another blog on selecting a scope is in order due to their advancements in technology. One involving what’s tried/true and what’s new that seems to work well.
Thank you for thinking of me. In fact, he buys whatever I send him on my Christmas list. And I do the same for whatever he wants 🙂
Looks like it’s time to put on the long johns and fill your mugs with hot chocolate & peppermint schnapps. High of 44* there today and even colder tomorrow.
Just to make you feel better………….it’s 3* (three degrees) in leadville right now and the wind chill makes it -14* (14 below). We’re having a heat wave…..a tropical heat wave…
Ah, yes. I remember what it was like in Colorado. When I lived in Boulder, I recall one summery August afternoon, coming out of the shopping mall and seeing a snow storm blow in over the flatirons. Within minutes, it transitioned from August to winter.
It may be cold today in Texas; but on the whole, it’s the most wonderful place on earth 🙂
Just reviewed your previous articles. I see no mention on how secure the barrel is in relation to the rifle. The breech is plastic isn’t it, and so is the connection of the front of the barrel? Could this lead to inaccuracy?
Yes, the Rebel’s breech is plastic, just as it was on the Sharp Innova. It’s holds the barrel fine. No looseness.
Don’t suppose you could include a cheap pellet in the test or could you? Just for comparison to see if at 10 meters there is a significant difference or not.
I want to get the gun shooting well first. Then I suppose I could shoot a bargain pellet, but no matter which one I select, someone will think it’s the wrong choice. Let me see what I can do.
Hey… Buldawg! Hey Buldawg! Id sing more but for copyright infringement…
Yes, yes, and yes. The 760 was longer, accurate and fun, and can still plink Im sure, but the last time I got one and found it was smooth I cut it to the barrel band and sawed off styled the grip, made a little 1377 looking like a shotgun. If Id thought of it I might of tried to find a barrel, but back then it was all about taking parts off, not putting any on. I realized why I haven’t heard about the spring shipping, veterans day and usps… duh! When it does come in and should be awesome for the gun, the piston is all yours. You know it needs to get pumped up, right? Just making sure. But yep, I’ll be glad to send it to you. I have all the measurements it produced in wetpack and a good number of targets to see how the groups change with the different plants, but inherently it should be the same, it will all be up to the vibrations and hold differences.
What do you mean that it needs to, get pumped up, did you do some experimenting and let the pressure out of it. So its like the Theoben that has a valve that you can fill to a higher or lower pressure. That would be even better because as I said I was going to try to fit it in my B3-2 to improve its power so being able to adjust the gas pressure would actually be of benefit if I can make it fit.
Yea I never even thought of cutting the barrel and stocks off of the old smoothbore 760s but that would be kind of cool looking just like a sawed off shotgun.
Just let me know what shipping is when you get ready to send it and I hope I can make it fit because GF1 and I had talked about trying to make a gas powered underlever or why no manufacture has made one yet.
Yeah it was cool, did it to one of those little single stroke grizzly’s too, fun little plinkers like that. The gas piston is empty now, fiddled with the screw and it all dumped. It can be filled to max 150 BAR, factory at 135, no benefit over factory I was told. The piston rod that is technically the piston, (in a gas piston Im now saying piston body, rod, and head) the rod should be able to be trimmed and since its empty you’ll be able to see your limit when its retracted, or leave it a little under pressured so the preload takes up slack, as long as it doesn’t max out in the back end. Got the word it went out, the spring, today so should have it on Friday the latest.
Ok I can fill it back up and you are right it will make it easier to fit in the gun with no pressure in it any way so that will be good.
just let me know what I owe you and when you are going to ship so I can get it to you .
You have my mailing address or not if not I can email you it so just let me know
It won’t cost you a thing, I have no way really to fill it, it can take nitro or air, factory is air, and would love to keep the giving spirit alive. I have received much love from all of you. My wife just ordered the large envelopes you can get for free from the post office website too so as soon as they get here I’ll send it on out. I will need the address I believe, and let me know if there’s anything else I might have laying around you might need.
I will send you my address by email and the only other thing I can think of is the end cap and plate the hold the piston in the back of the gun if you don’t have to reuse then for the coil spring.
I know on the crosman gas guns and spring guns the rear end cap and plate that hold the gas spring are different than what is used in a coil spring gun. So if they are different on the 95 and you do not have to use them for the coil spring them I would like them also.
I do appreciate you giving me it for no charge and just hope I can get it to fit in the B3-1 Chinese underlever as it shoots 500 fps now and if the gas spring gets it up to 750 or so it will be a good little gun.
Sounds like the adjustability will really make this project work, aftermarket hatsan gas pistons could be the tuners next bread and butter, since we’re on the boasting hatsan. Unfortunately the end cap fits like a puzzle around the trigger but I might have one from the np 22, the two are close in size, if not the same.
Please make sure you get the 95 together with the parts you have before you send me anything as I can figure out what I need to get it to fit in the B3 or can make it at a buddies on his lathe and mill. if you don’t need the NPs end cap it may work in the b3 but only send me what you do not need to get your 95 working.
I think the adjustability of the hatsan gas spring will make it very easy to tune to the desired level of power that we are after by being able to adjust the air pressure in it, and I know my local Kawasaki shop has the capability to fill shocks with nitrogen like what came on the ZRX and some other twin shocked adjustable gas filled shocks so depending on what the fill port is like I may try to get it filled with nitrogen in stead of plain air.
I will let you know how it turns out.
Hmm I’m thinking I’m not liking some of the guns characteristics. The odds are going in the bad direction.
Plastic, harder trigger and pumping the more pumps you go, accuracy, sights.
I was hoping it would be a good one. I could probably live with the progressively harder pumping. But not the harder trigger. And I could maybe, just maybe live with the trigger if the gun was accurate. I think I have become spoiled with the guns I have right now. And I hope BB’s idea works.
Did you read Erik’s comment? You can believe what he says about his Webley Rebel.
Although I shoot with Erik frequently I haven’t had a chance to shoot his new rebel.
Yes, I read his comment and I do believe him. I think I can get good results with bthe .177 I’m testing right now — it just needs an optical sight.
The problem is pumping the gun. It’s very difficult and you want to hold your hands as close to each other as possible, so where the sight is positioned make a big difference. I am working on that.
My comment was directed at Gunfun1.
Not concerned about you. You don’t throw the baby out with the bath water until it’s time.
If you mount a scope on the provided base I think it could be pumped by putting the buttstock between your legs and your left hand holding the front assembly (sic) and your right hand pumping. Might that work?
I’ll have to find something!
If you can get a mount, (Intermount?) a Scout Scope might work great. I have one set up this way on one of my Sheridan C Models. This way, the scope does not interfere with pumping. As to the sights, you might try Brichwood Casey’s Sight Black Spray.
Hi, Mike. I’ve been meaning to try Sight Black since somebody (maybe you?) suggested it hear months ago.
The description claims it’s easy to remove. Do you reckon it’d come off easily enough for B.B. to use for guns he needs to return?
I would say yes, the Sight Black is easy to remove with a little powder solvent.
I’d be concerned with Hoppes #9 softening the plastic of the “fiber optics” (most of which are not “fiber optics” as I know the term — what I know as fiber optics are designed to let light pass down the length, but without leaking in or out of the sides).
Tom, what about using a dot sight instead of a scope? Would that give you the best of both worlds?
That’s the plan.
Yes I read Erik’s reply. Whats that got to do with what I think about the gun.
I don’t like the progressively harder pumping or trigger. What. I cant say that. That’s my opinion and that’s what I think. And I’m sure there other things I could think to say. I think you need to look back at my comments because they usually have something posative to say about a product. Well and sometimes not.
And then read what I said about BB’s idea. “I hope it works”. Does that sound negative to you? You know i read some comments in the past about what you said how long the blogs were and getting to the other side. Well maybe you ain’t thinking that should happen. That’s when people are sharing info.
Sorry buddy but everybody is entitled to a opinion. And life goes on.
I appreciate and encourage everyone’s opinions especially from folks like you that have hands on experience.
What I was hoping to point out in my comment to you about the rebel is that I’m not sure we have seen the ACCURACY potential from his rebel yet. Too early to tell. That’s all.
One of the things I don’t like about the internet is how easily comments can be misinterpreted. For clarification, I believe this blog is primarily about exchanging information. It’s one of the reasons I visit frequently. Could care less if it’s on the topic of guns or not. I’ve learned a lot here through the “off topic” discussions since there is no such thing as off topic here.
My one comment the other day about “getting to the other side” was “tongue in cheek” since there was a lot of off topic discussion. If my comment came across as attempting to stifle the discussion this it was not my intention but rather my common and sometimes inappropriate humor. Stick around and you’ll find that out for yourself about me 🙂
You should also know that at one time, many years ago, I spent lots of time answering questions on this blog and encouraging dialogue since B.B. needed some help so I’m not just giving you lip service.
I know you have popped in and helped BB out at different times when he was away. And I know your humor. And yes misinterpreting is a problem when trying to explain something in writing. Its hard sometimes even when talking face to face.
And here is the were the misinterpreting came in to your quote to BB.
“My comment was directed at Gunfun1.
Not concerned about you. You don’t throw the baby out with the bath water until it’s time.”
What way should I interpret that?
MY hope was that after reading the post by Erik that you wouldn’t so quickly dismiss (throw the baby out) the potential accuracy of the rebel as you indicated by saying, “I was hoping it would be a good one”.
After all, B.B. was fighting the fiber optic sights and this is only the first part of his accuracy testing.
I can forgive many less than ideal attributes about a gun if it’s accurate.
I expect pumping to get progressively harder and the trigger pull to get progressively heavier on a msp because they almost always are. My Titan Mohawk trigger was an exception. Therefore, I don’t feel criticisms of the trigger and pumping effort on the rebel are fair or just. Maybe our expectations, experiences and priorities are different.
For these reasons I can’t leap to the conclusion that this either is a “good one” or not.
This will be my last comment on this matter.
Just checked and found it’s already been through Abilene, left there @7:15! that’s about 1.5 hrs NW so I should be getting it any time.I’m getting coffee’d up and peeling Pecans right now. Can’t take the chance someone might get a piece of hull in their gut 😉 .That’ll keep the shipping down to a reasonable level too. These things get heavy quick when they’re filled out well!
Looks like the Burketts were going good enough to dodge the worms this year too!
Reb sounds all good.
I agree with you as it is not turning out to be as good as it looked to be from the start and way to much plastic in the wrong places for me. but now that is does not even shoot accurately it is not of any interest to me anymore.
I’m thinking the scope will help the Rebel pumper.
And remember what we was talking about the other night. When you buy something and get it in your hands it can turn out to be something different than what expected. Maybe better maybe worse.
I think the scope will help the Rebel. But it ain’t no Mrod or TX that’s for sure. We will have to see how it goes.
I guess that was a honest answer or was I not suppose to say that?
Yep we will have to wait and see but like I said there is way to much plastic in the wrong places for me and the scope is going to be mounted on plastic so it will not be that stable and likely will move in the wrong direction making it very difficult to sight in or keep sighted in.
Anybody heard of this gun yet. Hatsan BT65QE in .30 and .35 caliber?
The .30 cal. is suppose to be getting almost 1MOA at a 100 yards. I believe they say its shooting around 1.200″ with a conventional style JSB pellet and like .550″ groups at 50 yards.
Cool stuff is all I can say. If more than one person can get those kind of groups out of the .30 cal. I want one.
As I suspected, the .30 is quickly becoming the new .25. Pretty soon we will likely see the pellet manufacturers getting in on this caliber. What is really nice is that we are now getting into the calibers that if you have enough power, you can use cast bullets.
Remember me asking why there weren’t wore .30 cal. on the market? The perfect pea for your shooter!
I had heard about the BT65QE only because wen looking up the 44 it was the gun that Google wanted to give me. I hadn’t heard about the larger bores though.
Hatsan’s web site only lists it up to .25.
Oh, it exists.
B.B. would they be one of the surprise guns? Don’t answer, I like suspense.
Both calibers are being tested now and look very promising. I want one.
I sent you and Buldawg an e-mail but I think it’s probably what you’ve already seen judging by your comments.
I got your email. Yep saw what you sent me and that’s it. I think they will be a very promising gun.
And Pyramyd Air has the JSB pellets they were using. Well I think one of the caliber pellets is out of stock though.
Time to start dippin’ my toes! I’ll be wanting something that’ll take a Coyote if I see any and who knows? Maybe one of these100# feral pigs that no’one wants digging up their land, if the power’s there.
What was the fpe for the guns. One of the calibers used a 81 grn. pellet I believe and it is the pellet that grouped the best if I remember right.
I think them Hatsan people are on to something.
Where I was looking I saw 85 fpe! I forgot to check shot count but if it’s 8 or better it’s a shoe-in!
If I can get it in a nice walnut stock, I will seriously consider one.
That Hatsan 95 that RDNA got had what they called a Turkish Walnut stock. It was pretty nice but it didn’t seem like the type of Walnunt that I’m use to.
But I do wish that more manufacturer’s would offer the Walnut stock. When I finally order that T-Rex 200 it will be in Walnut for sure.
Kinda like “Mexican gold”?
It does have a goldish hue under the cherry gloss finish. It is very straight forward consistent grain. We’ll see what lives underneath soon enough!
Good. I would like to know.
I’ve seen it while looking up the escape, even in 25, supposed to be a powerhouse in a really nice package.
I almost got a .25 Hatsan QE but went with the flatter shooting .177 caliber.
Is it hard to find a pellet that stays quiet, or does it adjust for power?
I don’t know if I understand your question.
I will answer this way. The QE at the end of Hatsan’s new series of pcp’s stands for Quiet Energy. They put a shroud and silencer over the barrels on these new models of basically guns that already existed. (Yep somebody was listening when we asked them for a quieter gun) And yes they are deadly quiet.
Is that what you meant?
Well, your probably using the 10.34s, but if you use lighter pellets are they supersonic?
Im guessing 8 grn pellets could go that fast.
I try to keep my guns in the 8 to 900 fps zone. Even if I use a 8 grn pellet I like that velocity. If I have a gun that doesn’t have the option to adjust velocity I go to a heavier pellet that will give me the 8 or 900 fps velocity. It just seems the pellets are more stable there. Some pellet designs will allow for higher velocity. The fatter waist design pellet like the 10.34’s.
Reb sent me the link to the test of the 30 and 35 cal Hatsans and that is way cool and the 30 was deadly at the 50 yards they showed. We just need to wait and see the price they want for them because if it is any where around or over 1300 bucks I will buy one of the custom made guns that you can get at xp-airguns in either .308, 35 or 45 caliber.
We will just have to wait and see what the price on them is going to be.
They really shouldn’t be but a breech+bolt+barrel +clip more expensive or difficult to get and I’m thinking if Hatsan pulls it off themselves, only a couple hundred dollars from what the one you just got cost…It’s the perfect excuse to jump on the “Darkside” wagon! And exactly what I was waiting for!
Lets hope they can keep the price down around where their other guns are at as it will be very tempting at under a grand to have to get one. I am hoping my SSA get approved here pretty soon so it may be a possibility in the future.
I would just have to decide on which caliber I would want, the 30 cal has already looked like it has been proven to be very accurate but I am a power monger to so if the 35 is as good as the 30 then it would probably win out.
The .30 caliber gun interests me. And from what I have seen with Hatsan they have been reasonably priced.
Yep I will be watching this one for sure.
Yea they are and lets hope these two new ones stay below a grand as it would make them very appealing to me for sure, it just going to be hard to decide on the caliber if they both prove to be as good as the 30 is now.
I’m going to make a prediction.
I’m thinking in the $700 range. If they make it happen in that price range I believe it will sell.
This will be a interesting one to watch.
If they keep it around 700 it will sell like hotcakes and they will not be able to keep up with demand. I don’t think it will be that low though as the galation top of the line model is 879 at PA so I will make a prediction of 999.99 fpr the 30 cal and 1099,99 for the 35 caliber. but even at that price it would be a real seller.
I will be watching myself indeed.
I’ve got a feeling they witnessed the Sporter’s lack of interest and will probably be working on more on the M-rod market. I’d be disappointed if they hung $1000 price tags on ’em for the minimal amount of changes necessary to convert their current stock to .30.But I’d be very interested around $600.
They don’t want to go up to 1000$, then they’d be putting themselves up against evanix, and if they build it just as good or better and stay where they are they’ll take over but run up against them and the m-rod… best to stand out with value right now, no matter who you are.
Stay where as far as price, they’re obviously not staying where they are with guns! Besides the frontlines in the early 80s, there couldn’t be a better time in airgunning. Id of liked to have seen that, but would wanted to’ve brought some pellets back with me!
Hatsan is already after the Mrod market with the QE models.
They will have the one up (or should I say 2 up) on the Mrod if they release the .30 and .35 caliber QE versions.
But I would have to say if Crosman would release a .30 caliber Mrod I would be all over it. The T-Rex would have to wait.
I was just looking for the right place to say this!
Crosman better get on it or they’ll be losing their shot. Sounds like we’re in for quite a treat!So long as we don’t let ’em gouge us by encouraging them to build a gun for X amount of dollars. Do however encourage Quality parts, construction and service as well as speaking your mind to them about what needs to be done.
I feel like the spread between mine and Gunfun’s earlier statements would be fair and good for the guns, Hatsan and their shooters.
Its like I told GF1 the top of the line Galation is 879.00 so I don’t see them going for less than that as they are based on the galation platform so I will say between 999.99 for the 30 cal and 1099.99 for the 35 cal.
Your probably right. But I hope your wrong this time. 🙂
Yea I hope I am wrong also as they do not have that much to make different other than the barrel, breech and bolt probe so maybe /hopefully they can/will hold the price down around where the gelation is now,
Me too! If that’s the case I will be building my own, not that I’d save money that way but be able to spread out the cost over a couple years or so.
Po’ folks gots Po’ ways.
My Gamo CFX absolutely loved the H&N FFT in 4.52mm. On those days when I “dropped into the zone”, it would put 10 shots into a group that you could literally cover with a dime at 25 yards. The first time that I did that my wife must have thought that I had gone insane.
Instead of a Sharpie, maybe try a paint marker. You can find them at Walmart in the craft aisle. The flat black should be about right.
I can’t remember who but I believe someone on the blog was pulling the FO inserts and re-purposing them. Why not just pull ’em out?
Reb not that I was the guy but I pulled my 1077 fo front sight out and it made it like a peep sight, it was much better. I find that after a short time shooting I am having trouble focusing and everthing gets blurry from eye strain so no more fiber optics for me. Besides I love scopes…
That’s the way I got my Airmaster set up(dug it outta the dumpster like that in 3 pieces
) and a little tough to use as a peep with all the intrusive light, being that far away but it’s bent and in need of attention and now I can put one of these extra scopes back on it for out to about 60-70 yard use, I find if I’ll set ’em for that my first point blank is about 20-30 yds so short and long range use, works well with these duplex reticles,for me anyway.
Are you getting breech end snags with this oinker ? Hard, “snap in” loading ?
Not if I lean the rifle over to the left. Then it feeds fine. I should have mentioned that.
Just wanted to say hey.
Just met ’em at the van, brought it in and laid it on the couch! Time to get busy!
Make sure you get the scopes and pellets out of the big box it shipped in. Don’t want you throwing stuff away. 🙂
Pellets open and scope ready to be adjusted for fit, waiting to be cranked down.
My back’s playing out though. It’ll be tomorrow before I can really get any info on it, the sun’s going down right now.
Update; Looks like I put 5 in 1.5″. Just checking the scope & trigger. Small enough to stay on the .22rimfire spinner I was aiming at but about 2″ to the right.
That is one awesome deal you gave me on a very nice rifle! I have every confidence it will give me many years of enjoyment and, if I’m good enough maybe put some grub on the table.
No problem. And you forgot to say what distance you were shooting at. And was that with the JSB 10.34’s?
And what do you think about the trigger?
20 yds, JSB10.34 heavies, 6 shots says the trigger, although heavy should be doable as is but I’ll know more tomorrow. If I get around early enough to catch the sun I try to post velocities That first shot sure scared the crap outta me! Good thing I was in the bathroom! 🙂
Two Talon, long time no see!
I’ve got the feeling this gun will stand and deliver with a scope mounted. It’s such a shame they had to go so cheap on the breech so it wouldn’t take voiding their warranty and another $60-$70 plus labor to make it work right.
Looking at this one and a few of the other reviews, this gun is not going to fly. Sights and trigger .
The one B.B. is testing does not impress me in the accuracy department.
I would be using this kind of gun with opens only, so hopeless sights won’t get it alone….much less the trigger.
I do agree about the sights, if they’re gonna be worthless then leave ’em off and at least leave the other option(s) available. As for the trigger I got that Regal from Gunfun. Only put 1 round through it so far but My first impression was a little on the heavy side and what I’m tempted to call a “rolling single stage trigger” like I’ve got in my 392″! It most likely will be workable with little or no tuning! So I’ll take B.B.’s word on this one. Had to stop and get something to eat but gotta get back on it!
There is a spring on the trigger on the Regal that you can take out to make it a little easier to pull as it is in stock form , if you put the GRTIII trigger in it that spring is left out also so if you just take the action out of the stock and take the c clip off that holds the trigger pin itself in the action and lift out the trigger there is a spring and pin that come out with the trigger and sit in the lower middle of the three holes in the trigger. just push the pin out and remove the spring that it holds inside the hollow of the trigger and it will be less pull weight as now you are only moving the trigger against the sear spring and not both springs. The only drawback to removing it is the sear will not reset if you start to pull the trigger and then let off of it. You can also do the bearing trick by getting a 2.5mm wide by 5mm ID by 8mm OD bearing from a hobby shop and put it over the trigger /bear trap pin that has two different ODs that sits in the rear upper hole of the trigger and that does away with the first stage adjustment screw all together and gives you a 1/8 inch first stage with a very crisp and light release of the trigger like about 2 to 2 1/2 pounds. the bearing is only a couple bucks at a hobby shop, you can use a 3mm wide by 5mm ID by 9mm OD but that size will cause the safety not to work but gives you basically no first stage and just shy of a hair trigger so it up to you if you want a safety or not.
I did a lotta playin’ with the trigger on my 392 and I almost wish I had it back, I’m gonna take it slow on this one and do the best I can with it as it is until I know exactly what it needs and how to do it and go from there after I get the scope adjusted and dialed in. Hopefully it’ll warm up early tomorrow because I can’t stand in the bathroom window trying to warm the neighborhood at daybreak.
Thanks for the info and if I need to use any it’ll at least be here in the archives.
It’s a workout for me and slapping the barrel open with my left hand is gonna take some work as well as cocking with it, I really need to get it outside for shooting before I get it banged up trying to cock it. It’s a Nice gun! I’ll be getting some taller rings for it to fit this other scope for my Christmas present to me I figure the 2400 on Co2 would be a waste right now, with the temps so… I’m good for a bit!
Yea CO2 would be pretty useless now until spring so at least you got a good gun that you can get used to and be able to get some grub with if you get the chance. Be careful cocking it in confined spaces for sure because if you don’t get it all the way cocked and it slips it will bite you real good.
Try it some as it is and if the trigger is still a little to heavy you can at least take the spring out from the trigger to lower the trigger pull by a pound or two and it don’t cost nothing and can always be put back in also.
If you need any help if you decide to do it let me know and I can talk you thru it over the phone as it is very easy to do.
Thanks, will do!
I don’t know if I gave you my phone number so I will email it to you so you will have it if and when you want to mess with the trigger.
I switched that spring for a lighter one and it doesn’t reset the trigger, doesn’t bother me, I can decock it any way so could reset it that way. Had a barrel slip just before it caught before and that thing was looking for the moon! If this ever happens you can just heat the barrel if its a small bend or let it slap again but have it hit a block of wood or something.
You are lucky it just got the barrel and not a part of you and did it bend the barrel enough to be seen by the naked eye or did you have to put a straight edge on it to tell how much it got bent. Did you get back straight or do you just not have to worry about barrel droop anymore LOL
I know BB has stated how to straighten barrel on the blog but I just don’t want to have to learn how on a good gun. The barrel on the little IMC pioneer I bought because the rear sight is moved about a 1/8 inch to the left in the dovetail it is held on the barrel with and I will eventually try my luck at straightening it but is only a 20 dollar gun so it is no big deal if I ruin it trying.
This was a noticeable bend, way out of scope adjustments. The slapping brought it right back to where it belonged with no telling anything had happened, it was about 4-5 good wacks to return it to place.
You got lucky with that one and that is the good thing about metal is that it likes to return to it original position fairly readily because when it is bent it puts all those atoms all out of whack and it has some what of a memory and will return to it original state easier than most people think it will.
It is good to know how to get it back straight if it ever happens to me ,buts lets hope not.
The Rebel has the same problem that the 392 has, putting a scope on it makes it harder to pump up. Originally I set up my 392 with a 3×32 scope on an Air Venturi Intermount past 4 pumps it became a real bear to pump and after a few months I ditched the scope in favor of a Williams Peep Sight. If I had no open sight option to fall back on this gun would be either sitting collecting dust or sold. I don’t see such an option with the Rebel. In addition there is way to much plastic on this gun and even in B.B.’s skilled hands this just doesn’t seem to be an accurate gun. If I add another multi pump to my collection I want an updated super 392. More power, easier to pump, adjustable two stage trigger and a solid mount for a reasonably sized scope would be a good starting point. While the Rebel has some extra power it lacks the other requirements, I’ll pass on it.
Is it time for Benjamin tho drop the current version of the 392 and move on?
And Webley needs to at least die-cast the breech. I’d hate that because it would block other modifications but its better than using the same generic vinyl so many other parts are made from with no mounting options. Again, Please get the durable sights on right or keep ’em, and leave another option.
The long eye relief scopes that work so well on the Benji’s may work here, I recall the same problem pumping my old Innova with a scope, the eye tube would interfere with your wrist even holding the pistol grip
If this is a faithful copy it should have pretty passable accuracy.
Personally I could never get past the pump effort and varying trigger weight, O bought my Innova as an easy carry lightweight alternative to my Airsporter at the time for the crows that plagued our duck smallholding….but in the end traded them both for a HW35…..
Back in ’81…phew that was a long time ago…and I was shooting that same 35 last week 🙂
I have found this trigger to be considerably better than the Innova’s I know that sounds odd, but it really is. I never tried to scope an Innova, because they had good open sights back then, but this rifle needs something other than these basketball-sized dots!
No, I’m no fan of these fibreoptics, I’m glad decent glassware is so competitively priced these days….we all have our tastes though, my favourite has always been a v at the back and the fine circular ball picture the front sight on traditional BSA’s gave, allowing me to sit the the little ball in the V notch and make a figure 8 with the bullseye. That probably makes little sense and is pretty hard to describe.
The Innova was always a bit of a nearly rifle over here, though the price of this Rebel seems to give it broader appeal.
I think it’s deserving of glassware of some description though.
The Rebel seems to be more trouble than it is worth, unfortunately. I was curious about it because I like the entire concept of multipumpers. But this one, well . . .
If they’d only include an aluminum breech you could use a cantilever set-up.
Pyramyd Air has a sale for the next 14 hours. They are giving 13 percent off for just today.
Enter the code 11-12-13-14 when you check out. The sales cannot be combined with free shipping.
There’s that Bell!
Where is the plus free shipping. And I really, really want a TX200 Mrklll but can’t use the discount code.
I know, I know. I want everything.
I really don’t understand why PA won’t include the free shipping on these specials. Hey, if someone’s gonna spend over $150 I feel they have proven their worth and value as a good customer and deserve the recognition. Sounds like it’s delaying a buncha orders!
And won’t honor the coupon code on the Air Arms or AirForce guns and maybe others. I haven’t looked at the others that close. Just been eyeing these other two brands.
I’m really looking hard at the TX200 Mrkll right now. And we had this discussion before about why but it still don’t do me no good. It will be a matter of time and I will have one. I’m just waiting for a place to offer a sale. When that happens I will have a new Walnut stock T-Rex.
There ARE other fishin’ holes out there and I try to stick with PA to show my commitment for this blog but if you want Crappie(Mm’hmM) you gotta dangle your bait just so, where they are.
😮 Blasphemy! Lol I got to hand it to vortek so far, but if PA had springs….
I swear I’m on my meds! But there’s a fine example of one form of customer service and communication between the consumer and corporation and how quickly issues can be resolved with no hard feelings (I hope).
Thank you Kristen!
I’m Kristen Coss, the marketing manager for Pyramyd Air. First off, thanks for your post regarding combining free shipping with our coupon codes – I wanted to provide insight to you, as well as the other blog readers. At Pyramyd Air, we offer a variety of discounts, freebies and, of course, combining our advertised coupons with free shipping (not as often as you guys like, I am sure!). This by far is our most popular discount – one we have offered in the past, and will continue to offer in the future. For our coupon today, we wanted to offer 13% off to give the greatest value for those who have been eyeing higher-valued items. It’s true that there are some items that do not allow coupons and we at Pyramyd Air have to follow advertising policies as established by suppliers. Please remember that you earn loyalty points with every purchase!
Gotcha! Thanks Kristen!
The 13% off is way cool. And it kind of comes out close to 10% off and free shipping depending on what you get. So yes its a good deal.
I just wish Pyramyd Air would also honor the coupon on the Air Arms and other select guns.
I’m telling you the truth if Pyramyd Air would honor the 13 % off and the sale went till tomorrow. (I’m at work tonight won’t make it home in time) I would order the Air Arms TX200 Mrklll.
There isn’t a way that Pyramyd Air could do that just once?
Last month I took advantage of the 10% regular coupon when I ordered my 460 Magnum. On that order I saved about $50.00 and paid $16.58 shipping. On that same order using the 13% I would have saved $65.00 now. So on a high ticket item the 13% may be as good or better then free shipping. Wish I had the cash to take advantage of this offer but the airgun Wallet is empty at this time, Boo Hoo!
Thank you for your time!
I tried also, but the TX200 is exempt from all specials been trying them all for past year or more, sad. I also asked them if they price match the LGV master from competitor, no again , Walmart does price match just saw the commercial while typing this..
Chris in Cut
I would bet they would make some high dollar sells if they allowed it.
Usually when they have that kind of sale I’m buying a good gun,a scope and pellets. They would make their money on the TX. I think 5 high dollar sales would be better than only one sold or maybe none. Plus that’s why all the other things are available at PA they will balance out the sales overhead. Just another one of those funny biusness things.
Sorry about the miss spell in your name.
Is there enough of a dovetail to mount one of those holographic dot sights in place of the rear?
They can tend to be dim with all that light between your eye and the sight but cranked all the way up should be better than nothing. Time to make this baby smile 🙂 .Hope that’s not just gas!
I’ve had the opposite problem on some where the dot was to bright and the lens reflected your face unless it was dark around you
A slip-on sunshade to cover the rear of the sight should help, feel free to get creative with the Gorilla tape again if necessary.
With all the negative comments about fiberoptic sights I’m wondering what they are good for and why they are popular. They might be good for low light shooting but how many people do that. They also look cool. And what’s there to know about the Webley name which is a venerable British company that goes way back. Are their products on a level with Air Arms?
Okay, B.B., Dreadnoughtus sounds pretty serious.
Buldawg, that’s an interesting comment about how guns used to be made better. I would tend to think so with the feel of my WWII rifles. There’s something very solid and substantial there. Perhaps its the drop forging of the M1 receiver. On the other hand, isn’t it true that rifles are more accurate nowadays? It’s not difficult to get MOA rifles at a reasonable price, at least from Savage. But that used to be almost custom-level performance I believe.
The fiber-optic sights are cheap and easy to install on a variety of guns. They’re also flashy to catch People’s eye but not durable enough for(my)hunting needs.
Not all fiber optic sights are equal. Typically the ones stuck on aiguns are less than ideal.
What are they good for? Close quarters, fast target acquisition. Yes, some work better than iron sights in low light conditions.
I’ve never shot with any fiber optic or hi viz sights that were more accurate than irons though.
Not all Webley’s are created equal either. You need to pay attention to where that particular Webley was made and/or assembled. Not unlike walther or winchester and others today.
I have shot with some very nice and accurate for their intended purpose High viz sights and the difference in quality of their construction & durability is quite remarkable as opposed to most of what’s being currently offered on most Airguns, They need to fit each other as well as the gun and be installed correctly and be resilient enough to make it through shipping (looking for 0 bent or broken here) AND 100,000+ shots.
That’s exactly true, the fiber optics are for combat handguns, pretty much not the best choice anywhere else, especially on accuracy tested rifles. Companies need to stop exploiting their low cost and stop putting off road tires on our corvettes! There are different tools for different jobs, you don’t use a putter to drove a golf ball just because it too hits a ball.
Nice metaphor there but I think you’re actually talking about Tritium sights, look ’em up I can’t share a link but Google ’em very nice but also a big difference.
I know tritium, same premise but those sights are literally combat sights built tough and precise at the same time. Tritium is the evolved form of the original fiber optics. That’s the thing that kills me, the fiber optics for handguns which only need to hit a dinner plate at say 40 yards are built more functional and sharp then the ones we’re getting slipped. And tritium rubs that in even further, those things are sexy.
If the airgun manufacturers want an example of what we want,there’s the example. Notice how the edges are all crisp & clean and how they seem to be perfectly mated. Now, Could you put that on your gun crooked? No!
A phosphorecent mineral.
Yes, stores/ creates it’s own light.
I was wrong, a radioactive isotope of hydrogen…. scary!
Aw, it won’t hurt you but it’ll probably still be glowing long after we’re all gone.
It was used in aviation guages for it’s luminescence and it not requiring a power source.
You just reminded me, Christmas list, luminox black awesome watch, wanted one for a very long time.
Have you been a good boy?
Less dangerous than radium (remember /old/ glow-in-the-dark watches? Not the current “expose to bright light, and they’ll glow for a few hours”).
Tritium dots are small vials filled with tritium gas as I recall — if the vial breaks the gas disperses widely enough to not pose a danger. The vials have a coating of phosphorus to create the glow..
in some aspect guns today are better than older ones are, but you also have to look at the aspect of the experience and pride that the worker of years past put into their work like they were putting their signature on everything they did versus now where most people go to work to simply collect a paycheck and have no real vested interest in whether the company actually builds or produces a quality product or not.
When I worked at Harley in research and development and was a Harley employee and not a contract employee which meant that I got all the company benefits including a short term incentive program that paid me a bonus every year based on how much profit the company made so the better I did my job and the more the company made the bigger my bonus check was. Where the contract employees did not get any of those benefits and therefore had no real interest in how good or bad the company did or did not do.
I believe that most companies today have followed suit as Harley has done and now employ more contract workers than they do company workers so the quality that was once produced because the people doing the actual work cared about what they did and were making has been lost to the cheaper wages the companies can pay a contract worker and not have to offer any benefits as well.
In the end I believe it’s up to each individual how well they can do their job and earning that bonus, and it was one of the reasons being on commission worked in our shops.If you don’t do the work you don’t get paid. If you fubar it you do it again for free, this time with proper instruction but don’t jump in over your head unless your feeling strong and make sure you got plenty of friends to help, just in case.
You are exactly right and I have always tried to do the best I could especially in the auto repair world when you work flat rate like you say because if you don’t work you don’t eat. I was taught early on in my first independent shop by the owner that ” if you cannot find the time to do the job right the first time then where are you going to find the time to do it right the second time “.
Its the factory worker I was really eluding to as they are generally not paid real well for the work they do, I know at Harleys assembly plant at Kansas city where they build the sportster and the Vrod they would send buses out to pick up assembly line workers every morning because most of the line workers did not have cars or they would call in sick and Harley would just go to the temp agencies to get a warm body to fill a spot on the assembly line so I know for a fact that the sportsters were sometime built very well by workers that had been on the line for years and sometimes they were fresh off the street and were only given a 15 minute crash course on the job they had to perform and that is where the term lemons came from as if it was built on a Monday or Friday it was most of the time done by inexperienced people because the experienced workers were either to hung over from the weekend to show up on Monday or had other plans for the weekend to be able to show up on Friday as they got paid every Thursday.
Crosman is really missing out on a section of the market where they have been just skating along with their Benjis. I would like to see Crosman bring the Katana back out as a multi-pump. Or even better an Independence version of the Marauder. As long as they don’t give them a Mattelomatic stock that is.
Yep! Crosman got caught slippin’ now let’s see what they have to say about that,They had plenty of opportunity to take off all by themselves but maybe they were preoccupied with the same springers with a different name for every day o’ the week on ’em.I’m thinking the NP2 drained their drive and projected earnings substantially. Now we see if they can recover!
This should be fun.
That’s a jagged pill a truth right there! I can’t wait to see what comes in the next year, and they better not rely on the little black dress on the maruader.. kinda proves all the reman-ing is getting old.
Yeah,I started to throw in a disclaimer for my new Regal but felt it a bit cheesy.
They’ve got a couple months but not much time to build a plan before we’re off to a whole new season. I’m kinda hoping they been sittin’ on something so they don’t have to rush it & we can get a decent product & they can recoup next year.
But…. in a long term business plan there will be plenty of low cost springers that are actually great guns, to keep the box stores stocked for awhile, good for new airgunners and crosman will be recouping at the same time the np2 price comes down a bit and really start selling, then they will be ready to take all our suggestions, a handful of scientists, and the money saved using fiber optics, and put out an answer to “what’s next?”
I hope they’re alright but ?I think they really got blindsided here. In One year!
Any more thoughts on these from those who have tried them? I have a love/hate relationship with mine (in .177). Overall, I think it’s a good design let down by terrible construction or quality control. I’ve experienced the known problems of the gun firing randomly during pumping (with safety on, in as few as four pumps) and the un-sightable sights (rear sight bottomed out and still firing far over the target at 20 yards on two pumps). A scope works well, and offers a taste of the accuracy and power the gun can provide, but it also adds considerable size and weight to what is otherwise a light, handy carbine. I also hear a leak from the piston seal when I pump slowly. In short, I have zero confidence in this gun and even consider it dangerous due to the auto-firing issue (NEVER load a pellet before pumping, and keep the bolt open during pumping). It’s a shame. I’m going to try the Rebel with a red dot sight. Possibly also will make a globe front sight to secure to the existing sight blade. The front needs to be significantly higher, because I haven’t found any open rear sight that depresses enough to work.
Webley has recalled the Rebel. I had to return mine.
I’m guessing the accidental discharge is the motivating factor for the recall but I’m wondering if they intend to repair/return these guns and if they intend to address other deficits as well?
Wow! Thanks for the update on the recall!