Bersa BP9CC CO2 BB pistol: Part 2

by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

Bersa BB pistol
The Bersa BB pistol looks very much like the firearm.

Part 1

This report covers:

  • Loading quirks
  • First up ASG Blaster BBs
  • Blowback
  • Safety level fell off
  • Daisy BBs
  • Trigger pull
  • Crosman BBs
  • Shot count
  • Evaluation so far

Today we look at the velocity of the Bersa BP9CC BB pistol in dual tone finish. Remember, I mentioned in Part 1 that the short barrel (2.91-inches) would slow the gun down? Today we see if that is the case. ASG, who markets the gun, advertises it as a 350 f.p.s. gun.

Loading quirks

Usually these BB stick magazines are easy to load. This one is okay, but a little fiddly. Pull the follower down and lock it in place, then load the BBs one at a time through a hole at the top rear of the mag. I see no possibility for a speedloader for this magazine.

You have to put a finger over the other hole in the top of the mag where the BB comes out or it will drop straight through as you load. The BBs do fall down into the mag, so there’s no problem there, but when you release the follower after loading is finished be sure to cover both holes on top of the mag or BBs will squirt out. I lost several that way before I learned the trick.

First up ASG Blaster BBs

First up were Blaster BBs from ASG. I waited a minimum of 10 seconds between shots to allow the gun to warm up again. The average for 10 shots was 346 f.p.s. The string ranged from a low of 330 f.p.s. to a high of 362 f.p.s. So the velocity spread was 32 f.p.s. There is your 350 f.p.s. as advertised.

Blowback

The blowback is not as sharp as guns that have heavier slides, but it is definitely there. It will be a factor to consider when I shoot for accuracy.

Safety lever fell off

I mentioned in Part 1 that the safety lever fell off the gun when I first tried it. Well, it happened again three times during this test. I finally left it off the gun the last time. The lever isn’t needed unless you want to apply the safety. I just stored it in the box for that purpose.

Bersa BB pistol safety off
The safety lever keeps falling off the test gun. I finally left it off.

Daisy BBs

Next up were Daisy Premium Grade BBs. They averaged 336 f.p.s. which is 10 f.p.s. slower than the ASG Blasters. But the spread ranged from a low of 328 f.p.s. to a high of 343 f.p.s., so only 14 f.p.s. That’s less than half the ASG BB spread. Is the Bersa bore tighter and will this BB do well in the accuracy test? Stay tuned and see.

Trigger pull

The pistol has a single action trigger that’s actually surprisingly nice. The first stage pull isn’t that long and stage two breaks fairly clean at between 4 lbs. 6 oz and 4 lbs. 8 oz. I can do well with this trigger.

Crosman BBs

The final BB I tested was the Crosman Copperhead. These were the fastest BBs tested, averaging 359 f.p.s. So once again the answer is yes — the Bersa pistol does meet and even exceed the manufacturer’s velocity specifications.

The spread for Copperheads went from a low of 349 f.p.s. to a high of 367 f.p.s. That’s an 18 f.p.s. difference.

Shot count

After velocity testing there were 30 shots on the CO2 cartridge. So I loaded more ASG Blaster BBs and continued to shoot. Shot number 51 went out the muzzle at 357 f.p.s., so there was still lots of gas in the gun. Shot 71 left the gun at 332 f.p.s. That’s a little off the max velocity spread.

Shot 81 went out at 333 f.p.s., so the gun is holding its own. Blowback continued to function as it should. Shot 89 went out at 316 f.p.s. That is a clear drop off the power curve. That means the gun is out of liquid CO2 and it running of residual gas at this point. Shots 90 and 91 both went out at 315 f.p.s and that was where I stopped testing the gun. Blowback was still functioning and I would guess there might be another 21-shot magazine still available at lower velocity.

Call the shot count 110-112 shots per CO2 cartridge. That’s pretty good.

Evaluation so far

So far I like the Bersa. The safety issue is bothersome, but I would keep the gun if it were mine. The magazine loading is clumsy until you learn what to do — then it becomes easy and fairly quick. I like how the pistol feels — especially when it fires. I guess the accuracy test will be my deciding factor.

83 thoughts on “Bersa BP9CC CO2 BB pistol: Part 2

  1. I’m more intrigued by this pistol than I’d have presumed at first, mostly because it seems like it may be a fair approximation of my Kahr CW40 in dimensions. I’d love a good trainer for that gun, but both the BB and Airsoft worlds seem to be surprisingly bereft (at least using PA as a guide) of the slim single-stack designs like the Kahr, S&W Shield, Kimber Solo, etc.* This Bersa sounds like it might fit the bill.

    B.B., you mention that this seems like it is a single-stack firearm design; can you report the actual width dimension at 1) the slide, 2) the grip frame, and 3) max width (presumably at the slide stop)?

    Also, would you mind including a photo of the slide fully retracted? You mention that it has a shorter stroke, but how much shorter?

    ____________________
    * I have tried the Airsoft springer version of the Walther PPS, which I want to like more than I actually do. Dimensionally it’s pretty darn close, but the cocking serrations are terrible (impossible to get repeatable purchase on, made worse by the stiff cocking spring) and there is a retainer part toward the front of the trigger guard that wants to fall out on me, necessitating increasingly redneck means of getting it to stay in place. I might consider the CO2 repeater of the PPS, if anyone can report that the cocking serrations are more functional, but if this Bersa is dimensionally appropriate, and durable enough to withstand the repeated racking strokes that would be required of a trainer, I just might prefer that…


  2. Hi Kevin and the group. I recently bought a Walthers PPS bb pistol. Out of the box it was hard to cock at first, but I lubed up the slide the best I could and now it works fine. With the lube job, the serrations on the slide are good enough. Of course with the blowback you do not have to rack it too often. Just the initial shot. I like the white dots on the sights .The CO2 wrench which is built into the back strap if very handy. That was nice engineering. It is a compact gun, not near as accurate as my non blowback Makarov, but still fun to shoot.


    • Thanks for that tidbit; I think that does help me a bit.

      Keep in mind that I am very particular* about the gunhandling characteristics of a piece I might train with. What I’m after, with inquiring about things like the action stroke length and cocking serrations, is something that will permit me to run my hands the same way that I would with a similar firearm.

      Last year I took my first plunge into the “green gas blowback” world, with an Airsoft 1911 design, and while I’m quite impressed in the main, there are a few things I wish I could improve. For example, one item that strikes most people as trivial, is that the slide stop on the Airsoft gun does not cam down and disengage when tugging the slide fully to the rear from slidelock–effectively forcing you to use the slide lock as a slide release. For those of us (and there are a lot) who train to handle any pistol design (not just 1911s) by running the action fully to the rear, whether from slidelock or not, this is actually a bigger deal than you might think. In my case, it is simply what my hands do on their own, and on every firearm I’ve ever picked up, it works. Now, the funny thing is that even on my Airsoft gun, which I know doesn’t cam the lever down the way the firearm does, it seems to work most of the time anyway–I dunno, maybe I run that slide hard enough that it just jolts things out of the way, but it does it well enough that I’ve been pretty happy with it in all so far. (Every now and then I get a failure that I have to fix, and that seems to suit a training piece just about right.)

      And so with the same sort of persnickitiness, I’m curious to see if this Bersa might be functionally close enough to my Kahr CW40 for me to run it the same way. It’s not going to be perfect, of course, with the “stick” magazine of a CO2 BB gun, but for basic practice on anything not requiring a magazine change, if the dimensions are right and the feel of the slide is close enough, it might yet work very well. As picky as I can be, I’m hopeful that the industry might bring a few more slim compacts and subcompacts into the ranks. (And if anyone is listening to that, please consider the Springfield XD-S, Kahr, and S&W Shield as a good starting point!)

      __________________
      * Yes, that’s politespeak for “total pain in the arse.” πŸ™‚


      • I don’t get it. Are you saying the slide lock works differant.

        When you insert a new magazine, do you just lever the slide lock down with your thumb? Does that work the same on the airsoft?

        I’ve only shot a roommates kimber, and not enough to really “know” the gun. Will a 1911 release its slide just by slapping the loaded magazine firmly to seat, like a Glock?

        Thanks.


        • Hi Sam. Yes, the slide stop on the Airsoft piece works mostly–but not completely–like the 1911 firearm.

          When at slidelock, the slide is not at its rearward extent of travel–there’s still a good quarter inch or so until the slide actually hits the frame and stops. That makes sense, of course; it gives the magazine follower “time” to push the slide stop up, during the recoil cycle of the last round fired, so that it will catch the slide and prevent it from closing on an empty chamber. Slidelock.

          From slidelock, one inserts a charged magazine and then does one of two things: 1) depress the slide stop lever to release it from its current position, or 2) run the slide fully to the rear and release it, just like loading from a closed slide. On a 1911 firearm, the slide stop is mechanically cammed downward and out of engagement during that final bit of travel, and unless there is a magazine follower there (empty mag) to over-ride that condition, the slide closes freely and chambers the next round. (Note that many pistols’ slide stops are spring-loaded to go down and out of the way; the 1911’s is not spring-loaded, unless you customize an extra detent into the stop, but the mechanical cam design has clearly been working since long before any of us were born.)

          I train for technique #2, mostly because I like to train for “any pistol I might have in my hand”. Some pistols have slide stops in different locations. Some have stops that are either entirely internal or otherwise difficult to employ, and some don’t have stops at all. Technique #2 will work with any of them; it is a simple gross motor skill that just happens to be the same technique as loading from a closed action. For me at least, that’s “all win”, and I’ve been doing that for a long time now.

          As well, some (not many, but some) pistols that are perfectly reliable feeders when the slide closes from full, can sometimes hiccup when the slide is released without being fully drawn to the rear. Racking the slide to its end and releasing is an additional hedge against that problem.

          All that is on the firearm. On the Airsoft 1911, the slide travel beyond slidelock is not far enough to fully cam that slide stop down and out of the way. At least not on my own WE 1911 it isn’t. It simply does not travel far enough for the cam surfaces to get the stop lever all the way down. I haven’t gone to the trouble to see if the cam notch in the slide is somehow cut further forward than on the firearm, or if the distance of travel is simply shorter and doesn’t go far enough–I don’t know. All I know is that it does not pass what I would call a “function check” for how my hands run a 1911 pistol.

          At least not a calm, deliberate function check. When doing drills, my hands are pretty automatic, and somewhat to my surprise, even though I know that it doesn’t cam down fully, it still manages to work most of the time. Again, I can only guess, and my best guess is that running the slide at full speed somehow produces enough inertia to get it where I need it.

          Yes, I’m a picky cuss when it comes to some of this, and for the purposes of this thread about the Bersa, please understand I have no idea what, if any, similar troubles the Bersa might have. Actually I’m not presuming any; I would guess that it may be like most of the modern striker-fired designs, that have that slide stop spring loaded to get out of the way immediately when the slide is retracted beyond slidelock.


          • Kevin Wilmeth,

            Since I do not personally own any blow-back air soft or BB/pellet guns, I am making some assumptions.

            This is not an assumption, but fact. Many many of these replica handguns on the market today sell for more than I paid for a new Colt government model in .38 Super in 1965.

            I am assuming that the slides on all of these pistols are made from a zinc alloy and not steel as even some of the cheap powder burners are. On the other hand, I would believe that the slide stop, being a rather small part, would be manufactured from steel for durability purposes. Since the slide would be much more malleable than the slide stop (if my assumptions are correct), would it be possible that a burr is being created on the slide stop notch, possibly interfering with free movement of the slide stop itself? Just speculating.

            Bugbuster


            • I’m inclined to doubt that, although as a troubleshooting idea looking for burrs would seem to be a smart one. Now that there is a bit of traffic here about the idea, I had to look explicitly today, and what is different between the firearm and the Airsoft gun is the actual length of the cut in the slide, which is about twice as long on the Airsoft slide as it is on the firearm slide–but on both guns the rear inside edge of that cut is the same distance from the rear of the slide. The camming surface on the front inside edge of this cut is the same angle on both guns; the only difference is the distance between the front camming edge and the rear hooking edge.

              In watching what happens, it appears that both firearm and Airsoft slides travel past slidelock about the same distance (indeed about a quarter inch), but the camming happens nearly immediately on the firearm, due to the shorter cut; on the Airsoft gun by contrast the slide stop is just beginning to hit the cam surface at the front of its longer cut at the moment the slide bottoms out against the frame. I can see that it is starting to cam down, but simply can’t complete that task by virtue of the slide moving further back.

              This is exactly what I remembered from when I first encountered the behavior, but I wanted to check it again before posting any sort of confirmation here. Sometimes I do remember it wrong. πŸ™‚


        • And just to be clear, I’d never depend on seating the magazine to release the slide. Not even sure I’d use a piece that did that. (I don’t have significant experience with Glocks, but my ex-wife’s G23 never did that.)


          • Try it harder.

            I trust that G17 like I trust an AK.

            I drilled the holes in the wrong spot in a target frame made of 2×4’s. By the time I realized it, I was already in the desert without a drill. I needed to find a way to put a bolt thru the 2×4. So I held the 2×4 in my left hand and put the Glock muzzle to the wood and fired away. Two tula 115gr per side split the wood enough to use.

            Pistol still runs like a top.

            Now, being some type of mechanic most of my adult life, I have an aversion to more parts than necessary, and stress risers. For that reason I’ve never owned a 1911 and would only buy one if I was going to compete and needed the super trigger work. I do want a BHP one day though.

            I like most manor of guns and shooting. But I mostly view guns, cars and tools the same way.

            “What for? How much? How likely to need more than the minimum maintenance/parts? Do I already have an equivalent that can do pretty much the same thing?”


            • “Try it harder”? Well, perhaps we simply value different things. πŸ™‚

              Look, I’m not knocking the Glock, which has obviously proven itself to anyone who is paying attention. Actually, I keep trying to like them–my goodness, if only to have access to that sort of aftermarket support–but in the end I always wind up going somewhere else, mostly because I just find them insufferably thick. (Despite having fairly large hands, I’m the type that goes to the trouble to “slim-line” his 1911s. As Ross Seyfried used to say, “if I could take two wraps around [the grip] that would be better.”)

              And so I wind up with things like the Kahr CW40, or my next intention, the SA XD-S 4.0–a slim, striker-fired piece that does the 1911 one significant step better where I live–its trigger guard is much more amenable to gloved hands. (And I’m still hoping to convince Johnny Rowland to offer a conversion for the XD-S… πŸ˜€ )


  3. BB,

    That safety lever coming off is really a safety enhancement. With such a litigious society, the idea is that you put it on safe and remove the lever so a child will not be able to shoot one of his/her little play buddies with it.

    If you should happen to lose the lever while it is in the safe position, you merely chant a few “enhanced” words, break out your socket set, rotate the safety to fire and forget about it.

    πŸ˜‰


  4. BB
    I am inept at using the search function on this blog and was wondering if you have done a report on the Beeman P-17 single shot pellet p[pistol and if so can you provide me the link to the reports.

    Thanks BD


  5. BB
    Yesterday Reb and I was talking about the Gamo multi pump guns.

    The volume number 7 mail out catalog shows 3 different models with part numbers. If you search them on the Pyramyd Air website those guns don’t come up. And the part numbers of the products in yhe catalog start with PC-. Normally the part number starts with PA-.

    Do you know if they are really available?




      • Ok BB here’s the deal. Just got through talking to PA.

        The lady said to punch in the last 4 digits if you search them on the PA site.

        First is PC-3625-5956. But the last 4 digits are wrong on that one. It should be. PC-3625-6956.

        The other two guns are.
        PC-3627-6957
        PC-3629-6959

        Again she said to use the last 4 digits if you search on the PA site. I don’t have enough time right now to verify if true.

        Will try later.




          • GF:

            I entered “Gamo pump” (without the quotation marks) in the search box on PA’s website. There were three returns to the search: two multi-pumps and one single pump. Were these the guns you for which you were searching?

            Gamo M4TAC Youth Air Rifle (PY-3629-6959)
            Gamo Bone Collector Cadet MP Youth Air Rifle (PY-3627-6957)
            Gamo Cadet SP Youth Air Rifle (PY-3626-6956)

            Jim




  6. Hello B.B!

    Way back in August, 2005, a reader asked you this, “From your experience, what are some of the most powerful .22 and .25 air rifles around $400 and under, what are your impressions on the above guns you are familiar with, and which gun would you recommend?,”

    You replied, “The RWS Diana 48/52 (same gun, different stock) is one of the best buys for your budget. I like .22s over .25s and I always will because of the wider selection of pellets in .22. I really like an RWS 48 in .22 caliber. You get an honest 22/23 foot pounds and the rifle is easy to cock.”

    1.) I’m wondering if that would still be your answer today, or if something else has come along you would recommend – probably allowing for some inflation, of course?

    2.) Are they discontinuing the Model 52, just keeping the plain stock Model 48?

    3.) I see some marked “Model 48/52”. — is that just telling you the action is the same, and the only difference is the stock, or are there other differences?

    Thanks B.B!


    • Jim,

      Things change over time. Especially over a decade.

      I have NO recommendations for a .25 caliber airgun under $400. Stretch that to $700 and I can talk about the Condor, the Escape and the Marauder. And the AT-44-10 and so0 on.

      The spring tube was always marked 48/52 because the action is the same for both guns. The stock is the only difference.

      B.B.


      • B.B.,

        I wasn’t asking specifically about a .25 cal, but rather had quoted the full remark from that post years ago.

        What are your favorite .22 cal springers now?

        Is there any springer you think is effective in .25 cal, or do you think a .25 cal needs to be a PCP?

        I don’t know why, but I never paid attention to the fact that my RWS is marked “48/52”. I had thought it was one or the other. I had posted about that rifle a couple of months back. I found a good deal on a very gently used .177 Model 52. It is a 1996 model, that had less than a tin of pellets through it. I like it well enough that I’m thinking about keeping my eyes out for a .22 cal version as well.

        Thank you.

        Jim M.


        • I’ve never owned a .25, as for my purposes almost every airgun I own is .22.

          But in .25 look into an hw80, hatsan 125, maybe Mike Mellic might be able to get you a B28 in .25, Webley Patriot.

          What do you want to do with it? You might be better off with a .22.


          • Sam,

            I have been buying most of my air rifles with the thought that I would want them “hunting capable” if I decided to use them for that — squirrels, rabbits, small/medium-sized animals. I also have been keeping an eye on their “longevity”, wanting to buy quality pieces to pass down to my three boys, enjoy with them as they get old enough / big enough to shoot, hunt, etc.

            I now have a few .22 cal air rifles (springers, gas piston, and 1 PCP) and one .25 cal (HW 90). I picked up a .177 Model 52 because the “right deal” presented itself. I only have 1 other .177, an Umarex Octane. That was the first “real” pellet rifle I got when I “got the bug”. I am now thinking of unloading that, and replacing it with a higher quality .177 to complement the Model 52 I mentioned.

            I got introduced to this blog early last year, and now am going back and reading each post from the beginning. I happened across that reader’s question (quoted in my OP above) from 2005, and wondered how / if B.B.’s answer would be different now. Just continuing my education in the world of air guns.

            Thanks for your reply! Enjoy the weekend.

            Jim M.


        • Jim,

          The TX200 Mark II is my favorite spring gun. I haven’t tested one in .22 but others who own them like them a lot.

          The Diana 54 in .22 I have owned and tested. That is another favorite, but it’s heavy. If it were made in .25 I think it would be a fine gun.

          I have owned and shot a 48 and a 52 in .22 caliber. Both guns were fine. They offer just enough power for that caliber.

          Of course the Talon SS is my favorite PCP. It is so light and so small compared to all the guns I’ve listed, yet it shoots twice as hard with a 24 inch barrel. And mine barely makes a sound because it has a bloop tube silencer.

          B.B.


          • B.B.,

            Your Talon SS is .22 cal, right? And what is a “bloop tube” silencer? Did you make it yourself, or buy it? Where can someone get the plans, or buy the item?

            I remember someone on here — a regular poster — has a TX200 Mk III in .22, but I can’t remember who. Whoever it is, if you see this, would you please post any tips you have about what pellets yours likes. Have you left yours stock, or is it tuned? What scope do you have, mounts, etc?

            Thank you!

            Jim M.


  7. A simple question,…

    Or maybe not. I checked into single stroke (pump) pneumatics. All seem rather low in fps.

    I would think, and most likely wrong,….that a break barrel or under/side lever would be able ( to compress air on the cocking stroke, storing the air in a chamber, and, releasing it via a valve. I am (not) talking springers, (with a spring) that provides the air when (released). But rather, why can’t a single stroke pneumatic provide the same fps as a springer?

    Does/will?…a spring provide more power in compressing air?…..than a human can provide in a single cocking/compression/storage stroke?

    Perhaps a “newbie” question, but one I am asking none the less.

    Chris


    • I overheard a conversation about a big one at the show, the lever was as long as the rest of the gun and opened up 170Β°.
      Gimme a big enough lever and I can move the world.
      πŸ™‚



        • Swept volume is a big part of the equation,the pressure and speed at which many Springers compress air also superheats the air, I think that’s called Abdiatic heating which can raise the temperature high enough to combust consumables.
          Two totally different power plants. But I’ll see what some of these older veterans have to add.


        • Chris USA
          It all depends on the piston diameter and stroke and spring pressure on a springer.

          And a single pump pneumatic gun it depends also on piston diameter and stroke. But what makes the difference is how much volume of air can that one pump store for the shot that will be taken. The compressed air needs a valve to hold that biult up pressure till the trigger is pulled.




  8. This is totally unrelated to the review of this pistol, but I always find good answers and thought-provoking commentary whenever I post in the blog comments. I recently acquired a new Beeman R9/ HW 95. Right out of the box it was a great shooter. I slapped a BSA Majestic DX 6-24×44 30mm-tubed side focus scope on it that I had on a known accurate CFR. I was immediately getting crazy good groups. Most 5-shot groups were coming in under 1/4″ at 25 yards, with none worse than 1/2″. At 50 yards I was getting consistent 3/4″ -1″ 10-shot groups, and I even had a 55 yard group that could be completely covered by a dime. That was actually the last group I fired that day, because I went to cock the gun for another shot string, and the action was so loose in the stock that when I broke the barrel, I could immediately feel something was wrong. So, I took the gun inside and sat it down for the day. At this point I had fired over 1000 pellets in one sitting. I was just too excited about the rifle’s accuracy to let her cool down. There were basically no errant shots, and I was immediately comfortable with the trigger and the hold was very forgiving. I even got respectable groups when resting directly on my bag.

    Today, I picked the gun back up and removed all the screws (all of them were so loose they were about to fall out of the gun) and cleaned them and then used a dab of blue loc-tite to reinstall them snugly. I used the washers and lock washers just as they were assembled from the factory. I took the gun out to shoot it, and the accuracy is just not anywhere near where it was right out of the box. I’m getting LOTS of uncalled fliers and the groups are huge, like inches at 25 yards. In fact, the groups get worse and worse as I shoot the rifle. If I let the gun rest, the groups start to settle down just a little but 20 shots later I am getting terrible groups again. I might get 10 pellets into 3/4″ for one group, then the next group 1.5″, then the next 2″, and so on.

    So what could be wrong? I tried re-torquing the screws to different ft/lbs with no improvement. I tried a different scope that I know works perfectly on my Umarex Octane, and the results were the same. The gun was pretty twangy out of the box, but doesn’t sound any worse now. The cocking stroke and firing cycle feel unchanged. I have checked the screws on my rings and they have remained taught. I am shooting the same pellets as before, under the same conditions, and the results are terrible compared to the amazing results I was getting just two days ago. The bore looks fine, and I even adjusted the trigger for a bit lighter pull. I can tell that if anything, the lighter pull is helping my hold and follow-through. I know when I am on as far as shooting well, and I felt like I was giving my best, just like two days ago when I was getting the best groups I could have hoped for.

    Just to make sure it wasn’t me, I grabbed another Octane I have in .22 that I know is very accurate, and proceeded to shoot 5 10-shot groups, all under 3/4″ at 25 yards, and as you guys know, this is a much harder rifle to shoot well than the R9. It has a heavier trigger (well this unmodified one does, anyway) and mine shoots 14.3 grain Crosman Premier Hollow Points at 890 fps, which means it has a lot of recoil and hold sensitivity.

    Any ideas what could have gone so wrong with this rifle? I don’t think that the 2 500-round tins I put through the Beeman that were stacking were just luck.


    • It sounds like something gave out, if you have a chronograph it’s time to use it again. I’m betting it ate your scope but it could be so many things or a combination of them.
      Did you tighten the pivot also?


    • DMoneyTT,

      A newer version/addition of the artillary hold?……Not only hold the gun loose to “let it do it’s thing”…but (also) let the the (action) do it’s “own thing” inside the stock? Pretty amazing story,….it goes against everything we have learned.= (keep the “screws”,…ALL of them,… tight).

      Chris


    • Dmtt
      You tightened the screws up. Now the action is tight in the stock.

      Before it was loose and free if you will in the stock. The gun was acting like you were using BB’s famous artillery hold.


      • I actually tried loosening the screws again to replicate the results. No dice. The groups did not improve. The screws were snug when I first started shooting the gun right out of the box, but they became loose somewhere in the 1000+ shots I took. Not once did the point of impact shift though. I got the rifle sighted in with just a few clicks and maybe 10 shots, and it held all day.

        My first thought was that the scope had given up, too. But I tried another scope and the results were the same. I have tried both scopes on another airgun and they are holding just fine. And the other airgun is a 25 ft/lb springer.

        I’ll break out the chrony tomorrow, although it seems to have not lost any power. I did order some stock cups for the forend screws before the gun started to go south. Maybe they will miraculously fix things. I wonder if the stock to action fit was maybe altered by firing the rifle with the screws loose. I don’t see any damage, but I notice that the forend of the stock fits the gun much tighter than it does at the rear of the compression tube. I’m pulling my hair out at the moment. I had an especially tight-shooting R9 that now groups worse than my Crosman Vantage. Ugh.



        • Dmtt
          If you shot 1000 pellets that’s two tins of pellets.

          Did the quality of the pellets change? What about the weight of the pellet or the head or skirt size.

          Did you measure the pellets when you first started your session and again when your session ended?


          • I didn’t weigh the pellets or mic them out. I began shooting from a half-finished tin of 500, then fired a full tin of 500, then switched to a 750 count tin of Benjamin hollow points (the same as crosman premier hollow points). I am still shooting from that same tin of 750. It just seems odd that it shot so well with no errant shots for over 1000 pellets and then, following a night of rest and re-torquing of the stock screws, it starts shooting all over the place.

            I’ll chronograph the gun today, but I didn’t chronograph it when it was shooting well, so I don’t know how much it will tell me. I will also have to pick up some bore cleaning paste. I have never had a problem with leading, but maybe the beeman rifling is more prone to this problem. Most of my airguns shot better and better as the bore was “seasoned”. Honestly, most of my airgun shooting is with gas ram guns, and I have never had an issue like this with them. Is it a common problem to overshoot a spring gun and have the accuracy degrade? To me the whole point of shooting a pellet rifle is the ability to have a very high shot count without breaking the bank. Even my rimfires would cost me $100 to shoot two bricks from, and that’s just plinking ammo prices. Never mind the cost of 1000 rounds of.308 Winchester, even with reloads. Not that my shoulder could handle that anyway.


            • If the spring fatigue is a significant consideration, is there any way to get around the problem? Are there gas rams that can be installed in the Beeman R9? I’m sort of surprised that gas rams haven’t already phased out springs. My $90 nitro pistoned Crosman Vantage’s firing cycle is so much smoother and quieter than my $470 Beeman R9’s it’s night and day.


        • Oh and you could of stressed the spring with the continuous use.

          And I don’t mean to the point it ruined the spring. I just mean it was not respecting itself.

          I have had spring guns group worse as i shoot. I would stop shooting that gun for a while and then come back to it and its right back to shooting tight.

          It could even be the variable of the seal it barrel even warming.

          I would let the gun have rest and give it a try again tomorrow or something.


          • Suppose to say repeating itself. Not respecting itself.

            I give up on my phone.

            Just tonight my phone turned off and came back and and said your new phone is now activated. What the heck.

            These smart phones are a pain in the butt.


        • And I should of added this in with the long shooting session’s.

          That usually consists of my weekends. I have at the minimum of 4 guns out to shoot. Sometimes 6 or 7.

          But what I do is I rotate shooting them. I take usually 5 shots with each gun. When I shoot all of them 5 shots each I start over with the first and shoot them all 5 shots each again.

          Some of the guns don’t seem to matter if I keep shooting them over and over. While other guns it seems to show up. And it is the spring guns usually.

          The way I always think about my shooting is one shot one kill. And then like feild target matches your taking 2 shots on a target if you miss the first then you move on to the next lane.

          I do believe that there should be a minimum amount of shots taken before switching pellets like say 100 shots. But also I wouldn’t just sit down and shoot 100 shots in a row. I would take breaks or switch guns while doing the 100 shots.



      • Or like BB said.

        Problem is we all just gave suggestions. But nobody knows what it is.

        Hopefully we will know the answer to the mystery.

        Ain’t it a shame there are so many things to think about what could be a problem.


        • Well, I will go through every suggestion, and anything I can come up with on my own, and I will be sure to post my results here. At the very least, it will archive any fixes or failures to fix my problem so that others searching for answers will have a place to start.

          Thanks for the suggestions and insight guys!


          • Dmtt
            I’ll just answer here.

            One thing that stands out that you switched at the end to the tin of 750 Benjamin pellets that you say are the same as the Crosman hollow points. I can agree with that.

            But it is a different tin of pellets and I have seen shooting results change when switching tins. And I use to way and sort and all that other stuff. But usually I can tell if the gun changes performance when I switch from even tins of the same kind and brand. So to me it sounds like that last tin of Benjamin pellets really is the problem.

            And as far as the spring fatigue goes its more than just that. Remember a long session of continuous shooting will heat the cylinder and piston and seal and the spring and the barrel. And I don’t mean heat like a car engine would heat up. And also remember that seal on the piston head is probably drying out some what shooting for a long time like that. It’s all the little variables that dd up including the 3 different tins of pellets you shot from.

            One thing I always do if I have say 10 or15 pellets left from a tin. I will open the next tin and shoot about 10 shots from it to see if the groups do change.

            But anyway the best I can say is when your shooting is watch what happens to your groups if you make a change with pellets or hold on your gun or even weather conditions.

            So let us all know what happens. It will be one more thing to remember if a problem occurs.



  9. Found the last of my Winchester roundnose 9.8gr and ran a few through the QB-88 & I think it’s gonna like ’em( put 10 in .2188″ @ 8yds,after #6 I didn’t hear em striking the target anymore.
    Can’t wait to try some JSB’s!


  10. I was well into the tin of 750 Benjamin Hollow Points on my first day of shooting, when the R9 was still performing lights out. I am going to wait until I have some bore cleaning paste and a good cleaning done before I shoot the rifle again. My breach seal looks perfect, so I can rule that out. I should also have my screw cups from Mac1 installed by the time my bore cleaner arrives. If I don’t see results following that, I will tear the gun down and check the spring and piston seal for damage. Thanks for all the help guys.



    • Dmtt
      Here’s the thing. BB usually doesn’t recommend cleaning a barrel so that kind of woke me up.

      And that’s usually my last resort. I’m going to say something here that could bring the attention to some people. And other people already know this.

      I don’t shoot the Crosman or Benjamin pellets anymore. For a long time now at that.

      I like the anatomy of the JSB pellets. They are better than the Benjamin or Crosman pellets I believe. I think the Crosman/ Benjamin are harder on the barrels than the JSB pellets.

      Again I know BB has made different recommendations through time. But again I will be interested in what happens with your end results.

      Just tell it as it is for your results. That’s what I’m interested in. I’ll be waiting.


      • Gunfun1,

        I was thinking the same thing about the barrel cleaning. I pretty much never clean my rimfire barrels or my airgun barrels. I will say that the bore in my R9 isn’t the super-shiny mirror finish that I am used to on firearms, but I assume that the micro-rifling that weihrauch uses, due to a lot more lands and grooves, may just have that look. It actually does look a bit coarse, but I’m sure it looked that way when the pellets were stacking too. I only shoot the premiers because they group the best of any pellet I have on hand from the Beeman. I tried RWS Hobbies, Gamo Hunters, and a couple others that group well in my other guns, and they all grouped well, but premiers were the best. I did get some crazy tight groups with the hobbies, but not tighter than the premiers. I went back to the hobbies and now they are all over the place too. If it didn’t feel exactly the same to cock and shoot, I would swear something had to have gone very wrong internally.

        I ordered the JSB pellet sampler, the H&N pellet sampler, and some JB bore compound today. I am working the next few days (I work 13 hour shifts) so I won’t get to chrono the gun or do any other tests for a few days, but rest assured that I will share my results.


        • Dmtt
          I know what you mean about working. I have been doing 12 hrs for the last month and a half. Going to try to enjoy this 3 day holiday weekend.

          But yep whenever you find out what happens with your gun post the results. And good luck.


          • Success! This is definitely one of the most pleasurable posts I have been able to make in a while. I let my R9 rest for the last few days while I was at work. It must have felt really bad about its last few performances, because today everything just seemed to fall right in place.

            Well, I think I may have given it a little help too. I planned to wait until the JB bore paste came in to clean the barrel a bit before shooting any more groups, but my forearm screw cups from Mac1 arrived today, and I couldn’t resist seeing if they would help, since my problems really started after tightening the very loose stock screws. The cups installed fairly easily, and I torqued the hex head screws down to “very snug” ft\lbs, since I didn’t have a bit for my torque wrench that fit them. Last night I ran a few patches soaked with rem-oil through the barrel and this morning I ran my bore snake through the barrel a few times. The bore did look a tiny bit brighter following the cleaning.

            I went out to my back yard range and set up my rim-fire trap on top of a fence post 28 yards from my bench. I hung a target with 6 small bulls drawn on it with a sharpie. Each bull is about 0.3″ in diameter. My first group was 5 shots of Crosman premier hollow points into 0.19″. This ended up being my best of six 5-shot groups with this pellet, but not by much. I was ecstatic, but knew that just 5 shots is not enough to know if the gun is “back” or not, especially since accuracy had been degrading as shot strings grew longer. I then proceeded to shoot 5 more 5-shot groups. The 6 groups measured as follows:
            #1 – 0.19″
            #2 – 0.27″
            #3 – 0.21″
            #4 – 0.41
            #5 – 0.28″
            #6 – 0.26″

            I consistently dropped my squirrel field target at 55 yards with a 25mm kill zone for about 20 shots as well. This was all with a 3-4 mph wind gusting from my right to left. I wish I could shoot this well from a field target position.

            So, it seems the R9 is back on point in a big way, and I think I know why. Upon installing the stock cups, I noticed that the holes for the screws were very slightly oblong instead of round. I suspect that when the screws became very loose during my marathon shooting session the first day, they wore the holes into a slightly irregular shape, so that even after torquing the screws down, the action was still able to shift slightly in the stock and affect harmonics. By installing the screw cups, which fit very snugly into the counterbore in the stock, I was again establishing a firm and finite position for the screws to secure the action to the stock, so the harmonics were maintained in as consistent fashion as possible.

            I could be wrong, but the gun sure is shooting sweet again, so I won’t be further hypothesizing. Now I have a few pellet samplers to run through the gun to see if anything beats the premiers. I’m not sure I can shoot well enough to see a difference, but if I can eliminate even the rare flyer due to pellet inconsistencies (which do happen at times with the premiers), I will certainly have a gun that can outshoot my skills.

            I can’t wait to try out a field target event. I live about 45 minutes away from “Airgunning Atlanta”, and they have tournament grade field target courses. I have emailed them, and they are very encouraging towards getting new shooters into the sport. Of course I will need a better scope, as the BSA on it was really just to test the gun out. I need something with better glass, more magnification, not much longer length, and shorter eye relief. I have it pushed all the way forward in the rings and the rear ring is at the farthest scope stop hole, and I am still having to resist letting my neck stretch forward into a natural position to keep enough eye relief. I am 6’2″ and have a long neck, so the tiny stock on the R9 is less than ideal, though I do prefer a shorter length of pull for target work (except on shotguns, of course).

            Unfortunately, I will have to delay a scope purchase (though I would love some recommendations) because I have a Benjamin Discovery and pump combo arriving this Thursday that took up my airgun funds for a little while. In my frustration with the R9, I was drawn to the dark side. So, I guess I will be posting plenty of questions about the Disco soon enough. I think my addiction has gone to the next level…ruh-roh.

            Thank you to everyone who gave me suggestions and words of wisdom. It helped to keep my from pulling my hair out over the last week!


            • Dmtt
              Good for you. Glad you got it sorted out.

              And your going to like that Discovery. I had a couple throughout time. Two in .177 caliber and one in .22 caliber. All 3 were good shooting guns.

              And as far as scopes go I tryed a bunch of different brands. I myself like the Hawke 1/2 mildot reticle scope with the sidewheel parallax adjustment. But also the UTG Leaper scopes are nice also.

              Give a update on your Discovery when you get it.


              • I certainly will. I ordered the .177, because I will be pumping and shot count matters more to me than power since I don’t hunt. I hope I can get it shooting well enough for field target, but I know it is kind of bottom of the barrel compared to what most guys in pcp classes are running. I hate that there is always an equipment race in most sports, so it kind of becomes a money contest. I think there should be a Discovery class, or something similar. It seems they are prolific enough to make that a realistic concept.

                I am leaning towards the Hawke 8-32×56 half mil-dot when funds are available. I like the Aeons, but they don’t offer a mil-dot scope in the magnification I want, and the trajectory reticle, or whatever they are calling it now, is just too busy for my taste.

                I don’t think the Hawke will fit on the R9, unfortunately. The BSA on it is 14″ long and couldn’t be much longer and still fit. The Hawke is 17″. It would have to have an extremely short eye relief to work. That would be a great scope for the disco assuming I can modify the stock for enough cheek rise, or get a different stock alltogether. I was also looking at the Mueller 8-32×44 Tactical mil-dot scope for the disco. Of course, it’s the R9 that I am struggling to find the right scope for. I really want high magnification, a large objective, mil dots, side focus would be greatly preferred (especially to keep scope height down so I don’t need to modify the R9’s stock for a good cheek weld), and short eye relief (3.5″ or less). But I have to have all that in a scope that cannot exceed 16 inches at the absolute maximum. With a 4″ eye relief on the 14″ BSA, I have maybe 1.5″ of room between the objective and the breach, and for ideal eye relief it needs to be pushed further. It’s and the end of the rings though.


                • Dmtt
                  I’m with you on the money war thing. I use to drag race at the dragstrip pretty much of my life. I always had the lower dollar cars and was competing against high dollar cars.

                  I always said it ain’t what you got its how you use it.

                  There ain’t nothing better than going to a event and cleaning house with something that somebody says ain’t worth a darn.

                  And I think you got a good idea about what your doing. And the main thing is have fun.


  11. JIM M., Hi!, My RWS Diane Model 52 is 4.5mm/.177cal., also has a stock like a M.48? I’m told by some air-gunsmiths that they have not seen just the 52 on the guns before! Normally they see 48/52? Semper fi!


    • J. Lee,

      That IS interesting! What’s the year of manufacture? I wonder if you have something rare – kind of like a misprinted postage stamp. Did you buy it new? Ever had any work done to it?

      Jim


  12. Jim M., Don’t know for sure? But? I think it was manufactured before 1990! No I’m second owner on this one! Chronny was average 747 fps! Very well broke in and I like it! Not on line a lot lately! Sorry! I get back when I can! Semper fi!


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