by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Air Venturi ISSC M22 BB pistol.
This report covers:
- Air Venturi Copper-Plated Steel BBs
- Long trigger pull
- Daisy Premium Grade BBs
- Radio interview
- H&N Smart Shot copper-plated lead BBs
- Realistic recoil
- Shot count
- Evaluation so far
Today we look at the velocity of the ISSC M22 BB pistol from Air Venturi. As small as the pistol is, it will be difficult to get a lot of velocity from it, because barrel length is important to a CO2 powerplant. Air Venturi rates it at 400 f.p.s., so let’s see how close they got.
Air Venturi Copper-Plated Steel BBs
First up were some Air Venturi Copper-Plated Steel BBs. Why not shoot Air Venturi BBs in this Air Venturi gun? The first step was to install a CO2 cartridge, which was straightforward. I used the combination tool provided to tighten the tension screw and the cartridge sealed just fine. Naturally I used a drop of Crosman Pellgunoil on the tip of the cartridge to lubricate the internal seals.
Ten of these Air Venturi BBs averaged 384 f.p.s., with a low of 378 and a high of 396 f.p.s. That’s a spread of 18 f.p.s. I allowed at least 10 seconds between shots to stabilize the velocity in the 70 degrees F. environment in which the test was conducted.
Long trigger pull
I noticed while conducting this test that the trigger pull has a very long first stage. That’s typical of this kind of pistol, so it’s actually a good thing to have for training. Owners of Gloacks will feel right at home, but 1911 owners will find it disconcerting.
The second stage breaks at a consistent 5 lbs. 10 oz. That’s better than a factory Glock trigger. I had to put a custom trigger on Edith’s Glock 36 to get the pull that light.
Daisy Premium Grade BBs
Next to be tested were Daisy Premium Grade BBs. They averaged 392 f.p.s. in the M22 and the range went from a low of 386 f.p.s. to a high of 399 f.p.s. That’s a 13 f.p.s. spread. And there is the 400 f.p.s. mentioned in the specs, so this M22 is spot-on for velocity.
Radio interview
I was interviewed by Charles Heller of Liberty Watch Radio, a talk radio program based in Tuscon, Arizona, this past Sunday. During the interview he asked if I had seen the ISSC M22. When I told him I was testing one he became very excited. Charles teaches a self defense course with pistols and wants to get the ISSC M22 to replicate his personal Glock firearm. I told him I thought the ISSC M22 was close enough in design and features that it would be fine for that.
H&N Smart Shot copper-plated lead BBs
The last BB I tested in the M22 was the new H&N Smart Shot copper-plated lead BB. If the M22 will be used for training, these are the BBs you’ll want to use, because they don’t rebound from hard targets. If you doubt that, read Part 3 of the report I did on them, where I shot them at numerous hard targets. They fell harmlessly to the floor after flattening out on the target — just like lead BBs always used to before steel came into the picture.
These BBs are considerable heavier than the nominal 5.1 to 5.4 grains that a steel weighs. These weigh 7.4 grains, so the velocity will be slower in any given airgun. In the M22 they averaged 333 f.p.s., with a spread from 322 to 342 f.p.s. That’s a 20 f.p.s. spread.
Realistic recoil
The long travel of the metal slide during blowback delivers a realistic pulse of recoil when the gun fires. It’s not quite as stiff as a .22 rimfire, but it’s in the same neighborhood.
Shot count
I continued shooting after the test to see what the shot count would be on one CO2 cartridge. Some gas has to be used for the blowback, and this gun has a long blowback, so this test will show us how many good shots you can expect. I used the Air Venturi Copper-Plated BBs for this test. The gun was still producing full power (384 f.p.s.) on shot number 40. Shot 51 went out at 355 f.p.s., which is a drop off the power curve. It’s still powerful, but the liquid CO2 is probably exhausted. Shot 56 was 337 f.p.s. and shot 61 was 315 f.p.s. After that I didn’t load any more BBs and the gun went full-auto at shot 65. That’s a sure sign its out of gas. On shot 67 the slide failed to remain open after the shot, which means the slide wasn’t coming all the way back.
Let’s call it 60 good shots on a CO2 cartridge. If you stop there you won’t risk getting any BBs stuck in the bore.
Evaluation so far
So far the M22 is stacking up very well. It’s so realistic that I think it will please a lot of people for just that reason. And the power is decent for such a short barrel. Let’s hope it also has some accuracy, because it could become a best buy.
B.B.,
At the end of the 3rd. to last paragraph, you said “the gun went full-auto at shot 65”. Could you please that. I have shot the 92FS down pretty low, but poi drop and reduction in report were my signal to stop and change the CO2 cartridge. Nothing happened that could described as full-auto.
Thanks, Chris
Chris,
Your Beretta is a revolver, not a semiautomatic. Semiautos will go full auto when the gas pressure gets low.
B.B.,
BB, let me get this straight ! Do all bb semiautomatics go full auto when the co2 gers low. if that is the case, I have returned 2 Umarex blow back PO8s because they went full auto. Scary as hell ! Maybe that would be another subject for a blog. Thanks and the pistol under tests looks good.
K7uqshooter,
It’s very common.
B.B.
K7uqshooter
Your blowback Parabellum P08s may have gone full auto for reasons other than low CO2. I had one that became full auto even with a full CO2 freshly installed. I don’t know the exact reason for the P08 becoming full auto. Maybe it was wear in the trigger mechanism. Umarex suggested it was defective and asked me to send it back for evaluation. Umarex replaced my P08 but haven’t told me what was wrong with the P08 I sent them.
Hi Cs,
I currently do not have a P08 blowbqack, After problems with 3 of them, gave up. It is a shame as I really liked them when they worked, The last one I bought went belly up with the full auto . This one was under warranty from a local sporting good store. I traded it back to them for a S&W 327 trr8. After 3 months, that silly thing now exhaust all co2 out when replacing the cartridge. My old Makarov non blow back still shoots like new after 2 years use, I am beginning to think it is a crap shoot finding a good reliable bb pistol.
B.B.,
Ok,…. you have me confused. The 92FS is a semi-auto that has a revolving magazine. It has no blowback.
I’m guessing here, but did you mean that with a blow-back, that cocks the hammer, and readies the next shot…that the gun will continue to automatically fire on low CO2? Since the 92 hammer must be cocked for double OR the trigger pull started to advance the magazine, in single, I guess I can see the difference. The magazine will never automatically feed another pellet. Did I get that right?
What is more interesting is (how and why) this happens. In my year here, this is the first I have heard of this phenomenon. Yet, several people today commented on the very same experience.
Thanks for any additional insight,…Chris
Chris USA
Had one of these quite a while back. It would go full auto when the Co2 was low.
/product/umarex-steel-storm-co2-gun?m=2043
And is this the gun you have?
/product/beretta-92fs-co2-pellet-pistol?m=153
If so it has a round mag or clip or whatever you call it that you load pellets in similar to a Crosman 1077. They use a mechanism to advance the mag. That design should not go full auto on low Co2.
GF1,
Yup on mine. Nickle and wood version though. I believe the price dropped 50 or so as well. Unexpected, that would be a not so good surprise. Plus any pellet jamming from low pressure. On the other hand, what if you could ???????
The mags. are nice. Load 8 and shoot 64+ shots on one CO2. Well hidden and easy to load.
Yea,… you know where my head headed on that one! 😉
Reb,
Here is a good review of the Sig MCX.
https://hardairmagazine.com/reviews/airgun-test-reviews/sig-sauer-mcx-air-rifle-test-review/
Like I was saying, the MCX and the MRod are two different critters. There is no way to really compare them. It is like trying to compare a plane and a car. Yes, they are both modes of transportation…
I would love to have the opportunity to play with the MPX for a few days, as long as I had about six magazines, a handful of cylinders and a few thousand pellets. After that though, it would be time for it to move on and me to clean up the yard.
I was really only interested in the carbine myself with the velocity being so low.
I still think those two comparisons would give a lot of people a good idea of how far they still have to go to get them right.
B.B.,
Mostly off topic, but what is the typical pressure of a completely full CO2 Powerlet / paintball tank / fire extinguisher at room temperature?
Thanks as always,
Michael
Michael,
853 psi at 70 degrees F. That’s for all of them.
B.B.
B.B.,
Hmmm. What reasons are there that the following would not work: filling a small steel paintball tank with 850 psi of air with a hand pump and using that in a CO2 air gun (with adapters, etc.)?
Michael
Michael,
It’s been done. It works. Shot count is very low.
B.B.
Michael
What do you think I have been talking about with the 1077 that I have running on HPA.
And it’s just like BB said. Less shots per fill on HPA but usually the gun will shoot at a higher velocity. I have a 88 gram cartridge that I converted for HPA. Remember a 88 gram cartridge on Co2 will average out to around 200 or so shots depending on the gun. I’m only getting 50 usable shots on HPA out of that 88 gram cartridge. And that’s filling to 1200psi and shooting down to around 800 psi. But also my velocity went up and I can pull the trigger as fast as I want and velocity doesn’t drop off like what happens when you rapid fire Co2.
So the trick to get a decent amount of shots is to get a bigger volume tank or resivoir for the HPA conversion to work.
Oh and look at the hi-pac conversions that some people did to the 2240’s. That’s another gun that works well when converted to HPA.
Is there a particular website that offers specific instructions for converting an empty 88 gram CO2 cartridge into a refillable 1000 psi (or thereabouts) pressure HPA tank or for using a small (9 ounce) paintball tank? I do know there are adapters out there. I would do the filling with my Hill hand pump and its gauge.
FWIW, the air gun I am considering running on HPA is set up for the threaded 88 gram CO2 cartridges.
Michael
Michael
There is a foster male fitting that has a male pipe thread on the other side made by Custom Products. It has the one way check valve held in by a set screw with a hole in it basically. That way the check valve can’t come out.
Buldawg found the fittings and sent me one. I found something on the CP website like it but it doesn’t say or show a good enough picture if it holds the check valve in. I texted Buldawg to see if he has that part number still for the correct one. When I hear from him I’ll let you know.
But its just a matter of drilling and threading the hole with a tap that has the correct threads. Then you need to clean out the inside of the cartridge with some thinner then blow it totally dry before you put the Foster fitting in. You don’t want no metal particles or liquid left in the cartridge. That’s very important for multiple reasons. And also wrap the pipe thread about 3-4 times with Teflon tape. Pink if you can find it. It’s a little better than the white. That will help the fitting seal better.
And remember that if you don’t get that fitting threaded in secure it could get blown out like a bullet from the HPA. So do at your own risk is the best I can say. It can be very dangerous if done wrong.
Michael
Here is the link to the fitting you need. Buldawg just emailed it to me. You can screw this fitting directly into the back of the 88 gram cartridge after you drill and tap the threads in the cartridge.
http://m.ebay.com/itm/361186957038?_mwBanner=1
Michael
Sorry but forgot the direct link to the fitting on the Custum Products website.
https://www.customproducts.us/products/detail/4757
Michael,
Remember that CO2 at about 850 psi at ordinary room temperature is actually a mixture of liquid CO2 and gaseous CO2. As the gaseous CO2 is consumed, the liquid CO2 evaporates to the gas form maintaining the 850 psi until all the liquid CO2 has evaporated. With pressurized air, you have only gaseous air in the tank at ordinary room temperature. That’s why you get more shots from the CO2 than from the same volume of high pressure air. To pressurize air to a mixture of gas and liquid requires cooling the air to a very low temperature which would be impractical for airgunning.
B.B.,
I see that the Umarex Brodax is now in stock at Pyramyd AIR. GREAT looking BB gun! I know you’re crazy busy, but if that one could get tested a bit sooner rather than a bit later . . . .
Michael
Michael,
I have a Broadax here, but I have been given so many other guns that are mandatory to test that it’s going to be a couple weeks.,
B.B.
B.B.,
Very rarely do I purchase a new airgun without first reading a review of it by you. Nevertheless, at $40, it is mighty tempting. I agree with your assessment of its look in your Shot Show Day three report. It looks like a cross between Hellboy and Judge Dredd, which is to say quite bad a. . ., uh, bad AXE. If Umarex wants to hit one out of the park, they should do a Blade Runner Blaster CO2 replica as well.
Michael
The shot count is pretty good on the M22.
And I like that the slide action is long. That would probably be the reason for me to get a Co2 bb gun. The realism of the shot cycle.
Well and of course if it turns out to be breaverage can accurate.
B.B., looking at those H&N Smart Shot copper plated “lead” bbs, I have to wonder if they would do very well in a higher power gun, that is smooth bore and made to shoot only bbs. There are two “higher” power guns I can think of. The Umarex “MORPH” that gave you such good accuracy (for a bb gun) and shot 600 fps in rifle mode. Then there is the Crosman Comrade AK that I don’t know much about but advertises 600 fps also. Those two seem like they would benefit a lot because of the higher velocity. Also with the guns being more powerful, they could drive the “heavier” smart shot. Just thinking out loud.
Thanks again for your great tests, articles and info.!
Doc
So what’s the difference Pellgunoil and penetrating oil? What exactly does the oil penetrate? And what does a self-defense instructor want with a bb gun? I would think airsoft is more his style even a rubber facsimile to practice disarming techniques. I just got one of these myself which is bright orange but is a very detailed recreation of a Sig 220 series handgun.
Chris, you have opened a hitherto unsuspected dimension of the Jaws of the Subconscious. My understanding is that it is totally internal. But it is possible that the environment has an effect, if not on the Jaws per se then on the frame of mind that goes with the “zone.” I experienced this myself when I took my David and Goliath slings out this weekend. Picture an enormous agricultural field over 1000 yards in length. It is divided up by intersecting lanes so that I can see people coming from a long way off, and right in the center is a Goliath sized cement cylinder like a manhole raised above ground that makes a perfect target. Even better, directly opposite of the target from me is an open space so that I can recover all of my ammo. It’s like a built in catch net!
It felt very natural like I was in the Promised Land. If I had really been facing Goliath, we would all be speaking Philistine, but I was just focusing on the motion. And darn it if the Jaws did not show themselves at the end. Just as I prepared to release the last rock, I suddenly stepped forward on impulse and transferred the weight into the throw just as you are supposed to. So, the Jaws can adapt to other situations.
I’ve even had a fantasy shooting scenario sort of like what you described. I would be proned out in a rainy environment with my now-perfectly functioning M1 Garand. It would look just like a miserable infantryman’s situation. However, underneath my poncho I would be wearing one of those bright red suits of rain gear from Cabela’s that cost $300 and be completely proof against the elements, while also being reinforced with a hot thermos. So, I would actually be in complete comfort while booming away with the M1 and being very in touch with nature.
And there’s a real life scenario. I went to the range one afternoon with my Savage 10FP. It was quiet and the light was starting to go. For some reason, the Jaws appeared of their own volition and they stayed. I was shooting five shot groups at 50 yards and was getting a barely measurable .15 CTC. That is .3 MOA. After three groups, I just quit. I knew that once the Jaws left, my groups would be ruined, and i wanted to preserve the record.
Matt61
Matt, without getting into details, Pellgun oil is like say auto transmission fluid. A penetrating oil is like WD-40. So the viscosity is much “thinner” with the penetrating oil. The penetrating oil has a lot of “carriers” too. In most cases the carriers evaporate very quickly, whereas the auto transmission fluid would not.
What did it finally take to get your M-1 running well? I remember that you had lots of trouble with it at first.
Mike
Matt61,
Glad to have been able to (maybe) add another dimension to the “Jaws”. I feel that environment is a factor. It is a strong person that can overlook adverse environments and still prevail. I do not mean weather or the elements specifically, but rather any situation that someone would find adverse to their own specific ideal.
I would think that a good bit of us shooters experience this,…you just put a name to it along with some description. Perhaps,.. most of us would think we just “had a good day”,….. without reflecting on (why) we did.
Thanks again for your sharing this concept. Chris
BB, you stated, “The second stage breaks at a consistent 5 lbs. 10 oz. That’s better than a factory Glock trigger. I had to put a custom trigger on Edith’s Glock 36 to get the pull that light.”
Did you ever try to just change out the trigger connector? It’s normally an easy fix as they only cost about 10 to 15 dollars. You can get them down to 3.5 pounds.
Mike
The question was asked earlier what makes it go full auto.
In my experience, it’s got enough gas pressure to cycle the action, but not enough to make the bolt or slide trip the disconnector or engage the sear.
Depending on the action used by the gun.
“Back in the day” our open bolt paintball guns would co full auto at low pressure, the reason it wouldn’t cycle was the bolt didn’t go back far enough to catch the sear.
45Bravo
I believe you explained it pretty good.
45Bravo,
Thank you for that explanation. Chris