by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
The Generation II Benjamin Fortitude.
This report covers:
- Fill to 3,000
- Crosman Premier Heavys
- Discussion 1
- RWS Hobby
- JSB Exact Heavy
- Where are we?
- After lunch
- Discussion 2
- Noise
- Trigger pull
- More velocity testing to come
- Summary
Watch out, spouses! The Great Enabler is about to strike!
Today’s report is so astonishing that if I hadn’t been there I probably would have my doubts. The velocity test took me two and one-half hours to complete! That’s because the .177 Benjamin Fortitude had so many shots on a single fill to 3,000 psi! Let’s get started.
Fill to 3,000
I filled the rifle to 3,000 psi as indicated on the gauge of my large carbon fiber tank. The gauge on the rifle also showed the pressure was 3,000 psi, and I know the gauge on my air tank is very accurate. I waited for 4 days after filling and the pressure still showed 3,000 psi on the rifle’s onboard gauge, so I know the rifle holds well.
The Fortitude gauge agrees with my tank gauge.
Crosman Premier Heavys
Since this is a Benjamin (Crosman) airgun, I started the test with 10.5-grain Crosman Premiers. The Pyramyd AIR website, as well as a slip of paper Crosman puts in the box, says the rifle comes from the factory with the power adjuster turned up 4 turns, which is on the more powerful side, but not the most powerful. They say to expect up to 90 powerful shots.
The first ten 10.5-grain Premier Heavys averaged 726 f.p.s. The low was 719 and the high was 733 f.p.s. — a difference of 14 f.p.s. For a regulated airgun that is not that tight. But keep an open mind because today’s report is a lesson in PCP operation.
At the average velocity the 10.5-grain Premier going 726 f.p.s. generates 12.29 foot-pounds of muzzle energy. Remember, this is just the factory setting.
The next string of 10 shots averaged 722 f.p.s. and the spread went from a low of 717 to a high of 726 f.p.s. — a difference of 9 f.p.s. It seemed to me the velocity was falling. So I shot a third string of Premier Heavys that I will now show you.
Shot……..Vel.
1…………717
2…………711
3…………708
4…………720
5…………did not register
6…………718
7…………713
8…………691
9…………693
10………..680
After this third string I was prepared to say that the rifle had fallen off the regulator, but when I looked at the pressure gauge, it was still 2,800 psi! So I shot another string of 10. They looked like this.
Shot……..Vel.
1…………718
2…………687 Waited 20 seconds before this shot
3…………714 Waited 30 seconds before this shot and all the rest
4…………704
5…………720
6…………717
7…………702
8…………714
9…………681
10………..718
Discussion 1
The average for this string of 10 was 706 f.p.s. What’s happening is the regulator is taking a long time to fill — AND, the reg and valve are both breaking in! I will continue to shoot the Fortitude and wait 30 seconds between each shot for the remainder of the test, until I say different. We have now seen 40 shots with Premier Heavys — let’s see what other pellets do.
RWS Hobby
The 7-grain RWS Hobby pellet averaged 867 f.p.s. from the Fortitude. At that velocity it generates 11.69 foot-pounds of energy at the muzzle. The spread went from a low of 854 to a high of 876 f.p.s. That is a 22 f.p.s. spread.
JSB Exact Heavy
The next pellet I tried was the 10.34-grain JSB Exact Heavy. They averaged 743 f.p.s. with a 12 f.p.s. spread from 737 to 749 f.p.s. The average energy is 12,68 foot-pounds. I am still waiting 30 seconds between each shot.
Where are we?
The Fortitude has now fired 60 shots. The onboard pressure gauge reads 2,400 psi remains, so there should be a lot more shots. I therefore switched back to the 10.5-grain Premiers Heavys to continue.
Shots 61 to 70 with Premier Heavys averaged 724 f.p.s. The low was 715 and the high was 735 f.p.s. — a difference of 20 f.p.s. That’s a total of 70 shots on the first fill. We are not done yet!
The next string of Premier Heavys averaged 718 f.p.s. The low was 707 f.p.s. and the high was 721 f.p.s. — a difference of 14 f.p.s.
The next string of Heavys averaged 717 f.p.s. with an 8 f.p.s. spread from 711 to 719 f.p.s. The string after that averaged 714 f.p.s.with a spread from 704 to 723 f.p.s. I thought surely at 100 shots on the fill the gun was out of air. But I continued.
The next string averaged 706 f.p.s. with a low of 691 and a high of 713 f.p.s. For sure the rifle had to be out of air by this point except that highest velocity was the last shot — number 110 since filling the rifle. So I continued.
The next string of 10 shots averaged 715 f.p.s. The low was 709 f.p.s and the high was 720 f.p.s. The string after that averaged 718 f.p.s. with a low of 710 and a high of 726 f.p.s. The last shot — number 130 since the rifle was filled — registered 723 f.p.s.
The next string of 10 shots, also Crosman Premier Heavys, averaged 718 f.p.s. The low was 704 f.p.s. and the high was 727 f.p.s. — a difference of 23 f.p.s.
At this point I had been shooting the rifle and recording the shots for a solid 2 hours 10 minutes. It was lunchtime and I hoped when I returned that this velocity test would be finished soon. Oh, and by the way, I ran out of Crosman Premier Heavys!
After lunch
I stopped for about 50 minutes for lunch. When I returned I continued the test, but my Crosman Premier Heavys were gone. So I switched to JSB Exact Heavys that had averaged 743 f.p.s. on the 6th string of this test. Let’s look at what they did now — starting with shot number 141 since the test began.
Shot……..Vel.
1…………790
2…………789 waited just 15 seconds before every shot that follows
3…………790
4…………792
5…………790
6…………778
7…………787
8…………778
9…………783
10………..776
Discussion 2
Why did I start waiting 15 seconds between shots instead of 30? Because the rifle was ready sooner. It indicates the regulator and valve are breaking in. Where I had to wait twice as long before, now the time is cut in half. Also the rifle does seem to perform more consistently with these pure lead pellets better than with the harder Premiers.
The average for this string is 785 s.p.s. That is 42 f.p.s. FASTER than the average for the same pellet 80 shots before!!! But the next string is the real telling point.
Shot……..Vel.
1…………776
2…………767
3…………766 started waiting 30 seconds between shots from this point on
4…………765
5…………761
6…………751
7…………750
8…………746
9…………736
10………..734
It should be obvious from the steady drop in velocity on this string that the Fortitude is now off the regulator and in need of a fill. But that last shot with 10.34-grain JSBs is just 9 f.p.s. slower than the average from the same pellet on the 6th string. I call that 160 effective and powerful shots on one fill. Over a total of 140 shots (with two strings of other pellets included) Crosman Premier Heavys varied from a low of 680 f.p.s (shot number 30) to a high of 735 f.p.s (shot number 61). That is a difference of 55 f.p.s.
When the last shot was fired the gun gauge registered 800 psi. On the next fill my tank gauge agreed with that exactly.
When shot 160 was fired this is what the onboard gauge read.
Noise
The Fortitude is QUIET! I have to rate it a 1.6 on the Pyramyd AIR 5-point scale. This is an airgun most people will be able to shoot without disturbing their neighbors — at least at this 12 foot-pound level.
Trigger pull
For the first 20 shots I thought the Fortitude had a single stage trigger. Then I felt a very subtle stop in the pull, and I got curious. What the Fortitude trigger does is pull heavy through stage one — just like the expensive Geisselle trigger on my AR. But then it stops against a definite wall. You have to feel for the wall. Bubba will miss it every time. But it is there.
Stage two has one spot of creep in it sometimes and then it breaks. Other times I don’t feel the creep. Like the valve and regulator, the trigger is also breaking in. I think when I get to the accuracy test I will be able to control it well.
Stage one stopped at 4 lbs. 8 oz. Stage two broke at 4 lbs. 15 oz consistently. In think I can work with this trigger.
More velocity testing to come
I still have not adjusted the Fortitude all the way up or down. I had hoped to get that in today, but this test took so long there wasn’t time.
Summary
I am getting excited about this air rifle! I think today’s test shows two things very clearly. First — if you want to shoot a PCP and just use a hand pump this might be your airgun. It does manage air remarkably well. As a regulated gun it isn’t too consistent, but both the reg and valve need more time in use to say that. When it is full broken in I would expect a velocity variation at this power level of 15-20 f.p.s. for the Premier Heavy pellet.
And, for those wanting quiet airguns, I can hardly think of one that’s quieter. Maybe the sound will increase when I dial the velocity up, but we shall see.
I’m holding my breath the the AV Avenger review. It’s got ALL the bells and whistles it seems.
Edw,
Check out the reviews for the Nova Liberty and you have a good head start for the Avenger. It is the same air rifle with a different dress.
It looks similar, but it’s a diffent rifle. Dual manometer, and external regulator adjustment have been added.
Edw,
This is true. I guess it has been updated, maybe at the request of AV.
Yeah, that’s why I’m excited for it. Looks like I can use my Aspen moderator on it, and with adjustable reg and hammer it should be very tuneable.
Edw,
I think the Liberty is also, but I think it lacks a gauge on the reg.
B.B.,
This is the second airgun I can recall where the regulator needed to be broken in. Seems like on the next airgun you are going to test it would be prudent to set aside some hundred sinker larvae for the initial breaking in process. These regulated guns seem to need additional work/wearing in before you can rely on them.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
The wear in process is needed because of budgetary constraints. There, that is a nice way to say it. It is true that all will improve after a break in period, the less expensive units will require such more and usually for a longer period. The regulator on an Air Arms or Daystate will not likely be noticed. I could not fire and reload my AirForce Edge fast enough to notice a regulator issue. BB has a brand new regulator on his right now. He can test that for us.
RR,
Actually I did have a regulator issue in the FX Dreamlite.
/blog/2019/06/fx-dreamlite-precharged-air-rifle-part-2/
B.B.
BB,
I said Air Arms, Daystate and AirForce. I did not say FX.
I am not saying they do not make great air rifles, buy your recent experience and my personal experience with a .25 Dreamlite does not enamor me to their airguns. I can spend $200 and buy a 2 MOA air rifle. Why should I spend $1200 for a 2 MOA air rifle?
Siraniko,
I’m with you – break in is required.
I always shoot a tin or two through the rifle to break it in before even thinking about doing any Chrony work or serious testing.
That is easy for me to do but different when you have a pipe-line full of guns waiting to be tested. Maybe B.B. should invite a friend over to help with extended pre-review plinking sessions.
Hank
Hank,
I have an even better idea. He should have them ship the new air rifles to RidgeRunner’s Home For Wayward Airguns and I would be happy to give each of them some break in and send them on to BB.
B.B.,
I think it is not only the regulator and valve breaking in. It also is the sear and the hammer. On my Sheridan 2260 at first I could affect the velocity by how I pulled the trigger. A slow squeeze gave a lower velocity than a jerk. I had the trigger stop screw adjusted too tight and it was holding the sear against the hammer when it released slowing down the hammer. I am not sure but it seems some of the Crosman sears and hammers need to break in together that could make a few FPS difference.
Obviously the regulator was a main culprit in your velocity spread, it went down when you waited between shots.
I think the velocity spread will go down even more as it breaks in.
You seem to have quite a few more shots on a fill than I do at near the same velocity with my .177 Fortitude. That is a phenomenal number of shots on the small Fortitude air reservoir.
Ok time for the accuracy tests.
Don
B.B.
Wow, 100 shots+. I hope they sent you many extra magazines? Is it usually OK to leave a PCP filled to the max for extended periods of time?
Some PCP barrels say they are designed to be used with a specific pellet. Why wouldn’t Crossman “tune” this barrel for their own pellets?
A trigger that breaks at 4.5+ pounds is still too heavy, can that be adjusted? Are PCP triggers levers and springs or just springs and hammers?
Will this rifle be available with a wood stock?
Thanks,
-Yogi
Yogi,
You will not likely see this come out with a wood stock. That would increase the cost. The good news is if you hunt around you can find companies that make custom wood stocks for the Disco. This will drop right in.
Yogi,
I leave all of my PCPs filled to the max all the time. One AirForce TalonSS is now 19 years old and has always been left filled. And I hav e a Shamal that’s about 40 years old and as long as I have owned it (18 years?) it’s been left filled.
I wonnered about the barrel too. That was why I used Premiers first. Maybe the barrel also needs a break in.
The trigger is not adjustable.
As for a wood stock, I think that will have to come from elsewhere for now.
B.B.
B.B.
The guys at my range who shoot PCP’s say that their rifles need to be resealed about every 5 years or so.
Have your AirForce Talon and/or Shamal been resealed?
-Y
PS the “darkside” is dimly lit, I appreciate your shedding some light on it.
Yogi,
Never. None of my 8-9 AirForce guns have ever been resealed. Neither have any of my other PCPs that I can recall.
B.B.
Yogi
What! Every 5 years. Please.
Maybe I heard that before but really can’t recall even hearing it.
There are pcps I have had that my buddies still have that are probably 11 years old and no leaks.
And yes leave a pcp filled. And put a few drops of silicone oil in the fill port about every 1500 shots and that gun should last a long time with out leaks and needing seals.
Now on occasion I have had a few PCP’ leak right out of the box. And it was usually at spots were there was threads involved. Like where a Foster fitting screws into something or a gauge threads into a port. So yes leaks happen. But a time span of 5 years is to me hard to say it could or couldn’t happen.
Yogi,
Might be an idea to ask the PCP guys if you could try their rifles – I am always ready to let somebody try mine.
…but then maybe you shouldn’t – they don’t call it the “dark side” for nothing (assimilated you will be! MUHAHAHA!).
Kidding aside, I would never give up my springers but PCPs do definitely have a place that springers will never fill. Depends on what you want to do. IMHO (unless power is an issue – for larger pests) anything under 30ish yards is springer territory; beyond 30 yards (and out to 90-100 yards) PCPs are in their element.
…Just saying.
Hank
Hank,
As I get older I want KISS! Keep It Simple Stupid. Guys at the range ask me all the time if I want to shoot their $1500 FX’s, their $3,000 Daystates, their $5000 Styrs. No thanks, it will be just like potato chips, lol.
When B.B. talks about PCP’s falling off their regulators ,my brain just freezes over! Figuring out holdover at 55 yards with my HW 50’s is all the mental exercise that I need…
I do feel inadequate when they guy with the FX hits a one inch bell at 120 yards. I have no interest in powder burners, except I would like to try(just one box of ammo) the 1,000 yard sniper shot.
You guys are all evangelists…..
-Yogi
Yogi,
I have had PCPs for 30 years and as long as you add a few drops of chamber oil they have never caused me a problem with resealing. I loaned a DAQ to a (formerly) trusted friend and he used his 4,500 PSI air cylinder (without a slow flow valve (restrictor) to refill and cooked the Foster fill fitting O-Ring! That is the key i believe; mitigate overheat in PCP and chamber oil in moderation keeps the PCP System happy.
As to keeping them filled I learned with SCUBA that it is the cycle of pressure fill empty that will eventually work-hardened the metal. So keeping them pressurized to maximum also keeps them ready for use and the shut-off valve seated and healthy.
shootski
BB,
Yes, you are indeed the Great Enabler as I can testify. Right now Mrs. RR is not happy with me. Ah well. I guess I am thankful this is a .177. If it had been .22 I would have told you to just ship it to me rather than back to Pyramyd AIR.
TCFKAC has come a long way in the last few years. If you can, find out if they intend to stop producing the Maximus. Right now, the only one you can get is with that CenterPoint scope on it. I do not mind it not having glowy thingy sights, but I do not want the scope.
Do you think a little silicone oil will help that regulator?
RR,
I think the reg. will break in. But from oil? I don’t know.
You take care of Mrs. RR, hear? She’s pretty darn goor to you! 🙂
B.B.
BB,
You do not have to tell me about it. I do my best by her. She just thinks I have enough airguns. Well, I’m trying.
RidgeRunner,
I know the situation well. The answer is one you may or may not be able to adapt but modular gun systems are the answer! You get to tell her you are just ordering PARTS for a gun you already own. IF she is too sharp it won’t work unfortunately ;^)
It worked for me until she came into the gunroom and started asking questions about a full rifle and a row of uppers and the cat was out of the bag. She also figured out my multiple caliber system with handguns!
shootski
I’m leaning harder and harder towards this one. Let’s hope she can park ’em close.
Rk,
Well, that is the real test, isn’t it?
B.B.
Rk,
I would take this over the Avenger. This one even has most of the parts made in USA and assembled in USA also. (Start waving Flag)
BB ,
It sounds like it could be a erratic striker. Lubricate the striker with some EWG and those numbers will tighten up . When I repair Marauders or Discoveries I shoe shine the striker with some 320 grit . The strikers are coated with a heavy oxide and it causes drag . Very common in inexpensive PCP rifles.
Gene Salvino
Gene,
Thanks for that.
I try to avoid going inside an airgun unless that is what I am writing about. I want to test them just like they come to everybody.
However, this could be an interesting aside, and since I do have to do a second veloicity test, it might be worth it.
B.B.
Gene,
Just commented to BB below on the trigger. Maybe you could answer a question and save us time/speculation.
Do you know if the trigger unit is the same for the Gen. 2 Fortitude as it is for the Maximus?
Thanks,…… Chris
Gene,
Amazing what a bit of “spit & polish” and proper lubrication can accomplish eh?
Hank
Gene Salvino,
I tried a VERY light cross hatch with 400 grit after learning about the technique with skis in warm snow. The concept as explained by Race Ski Tech’s is: “It knocks down the hydraulic suction between ski and water molecules in the snow to skibase interface.”
It seems to work best when striker to receiver clearance is tight.
shootski
BB,
Looking pretty good so far. Hopefully the reg. is not choking the air for the next shot. As you know, the trigger on the Maximus can be made much better with easy home tweaks. I wonder if this is the same trigger (part for part)?
Besides the usual clean and lube,… the first stage does nothing and what pressure you feel is a spring. Use a lighter spring or clip that one,…. done. With an added screw, the second stage can be advanced, reducing travel required. Another screw can be added for trigger over travel/stop. The holes for the screws were already in the plastic casting.
If you “go in” to check out the striker/hammer,… maybe have a quick look at the trigger box? 1 side plate and all is revealed.
Chris
Chris
How you know all that about the trigger. Did you get you a Fortitude?
Just maybe the gen2 Fortitude trigger is a bit different than the Maximus and Discovery trigger this time around. Sounds like it from what BB describes about it this time. Especially with the pull weight.
Maybe they put the adjusting screws in and a different spring in the gen2 Fortitude this time. Well we’re about to find out. I ordered mine last night. 🙂
GF1,
I did not order one,… but could well do if I wanted to. I have enough to play with now. Looking forwards to you taking a peak at the trigger. You could be one of the very first to answer that question,…. unless someone on You-tube has already been inside a Gen. 2 trigger. It would not surprise me if so.
Chris
Chris
Read my comment to BB below about the trigger.
Oh and you know anyone in the market for a good looking Walnut left hand stock TX200. Going to sell it.
GF1,
Read it. I see Don posted a pic. of the Gen. 2 trigger box. I commented. I will say “pass” on the TX.
Chris
Chris
I thought the Gen2’s just got in stock to sale?
GF1,
Woohoo! .22? I think that is going to be an awesome little plinker. I know they have done a few of the Disco upgrades, but there are still a few more you can do to it.
RR
Nope .177 caliber. They didn’t have any .22 caliber in yet. And I wanted .177 caliber anyway.
I sold my .177 Gauntlet a little while back to one of my buddies so I was looking at a replacement for it. And the gen 2 Fortitude fit the bill. And I’m kind of partial to Crosman and Benjamin pcp’s anyway so here I am.
GF1,
I only have owned one Crosman. That is my 101. I wish they would build their new ones that way.
RR
Just checked and PA now has 5 Fortitudes in .177 caliber and 5 in .22 caliber right now in stock.
And you should check out the used guns at the air gun place in Arizona. They just added a whole bunch of older guns to the list for sale. There maybe something there you want. But I would check it out fast. The last total was 5 pages with 80 guns listed.
ChrisUSA,
I know the Gen 1 Fortitude used the Maximus trigger unit . I am unsure on the Gen 2 , we haven’t had any comeback for Warranty yet.
Gene Salvino
Gene,
Thanks. The Gen. 2 is supposed to have better trigger,…. so if things were the same,…. I figured that maybe Crosman finally took a hint and did some of the mods. that everyone has been doing all along.
Chris
BB
Perfect timing. Why? First I wanted to know some more about the trigger and was glad to hear what you said about it. Wish it was the accuracy report though. But I have faith it will be accurate. And reason number 2……
I got my email notification last night saying the gen2 is in stock at PA. They only had 3 in .177 caliber left.
Well now they only have 2 left in stock. 😉
GF1,
There you go! I bet you’ll be inside before I am. 🙂
B.B.
BB
Well don’t be so sure of that.
If I can hit with the gun fairly easy and consistently, the trigger isn’t going to even be looked at.
I may never know what’s on the inside of a tootsie roll pop if you know what I mean. If it tastes good why break it open. 😉
GF1,
It has been a while since I was inside mine but from what I remember the only difference was a lighter spring. my memory is bad.
I will check. I know I gave mine a tune.
GF1,
I just looked inside my Fortitude gen 2, it is the standard trigger going back to the 2260. Here is a picture. I put the travel and stop screws in and a lighter return spring.
Gene is correct on the stricter/hammer they come rough. I have had better luck with oil on the stricker . Grease works but takes quite a few shots to stabilize and slows the velocity some. I think a good polish job on the stricker would help significantly, I haven’t tried that though,
Don
Don,
That being a Gen. 2,….. means they did nothing to it,…. as you did the same things I did on the Maximus.
Thank you for taking the time and effort to post that.
Oh,……. I decreased the tension on the V spring by bending it slightly inward (more V shaped). Got to be careful there since it holds the sear up.
Chris
Chris,
Thanks for the reminder. The V spring may have been a little weaker in the 2nd gen and the trigger return spring may have been a little weaker. The V spring causes the sear to ride against the striker depending on how you pull the trigger. When you pull the trigger with a force just enough to release the sear it will not hold the sear off the striker once it is released. I also believe some of the roughness in cocking the gun is from the sear against the striker.
If you remember, my Fortitude had the rusty sear from the factory. I replaced it. I think it was the Fortitude.
From now on when I remove the striker/hammer on a gun I will be giving it a good polish before it goes back in. They are definitely rougher than in the old days.
Don
Don,
You could be right on the 2 springs being weaker. Looking at my notes,…. I had 5-6# stock. Got it down to 2.5-3# with the coil spring mod. and lube. The V spring tweak brought it in right around 1.5#,… so about another 1# drop doing the V. All Lyman gauge checked,… without listing specific #’s/averages of several readings.
Chris
I think the hammer spring is also weaker? That would Change the cocking force and the triggers pull. I have not checked the part numbers between gen 1 and gen 2 on the Fortitude. That would probably tell what is different??
Edit was handy. I just checked and can’t find the gen 2 parts diagram. Guess it is not out yet.
Don
Yours is a gen2? I thought the gen2’s just got in stock.
I’m not going to take the gen2 Fortitude trigger apart when I get it. But I am going to compare the pull to my unmodded Maximus trigger assembly. I’ll have to pop it back on my Maximus first though. I have that Marauder pistol grip assembly on my Maximus right now. That should tell me something.
GF1,
Mine is a gen 2, I ordered it 17 May 2019 it must of been when they first came out.
I am pretty sure you will be tuning the trigger. No mater how good it is stock, it is 100% better with a tune. As many as you have done it won’t take you more than an hour, probably a lot less.
Install 2 screws for trigger travel and stop.
Replace trigger return spring, fountain pen spring or?
Bend Sear V spring to reduce pressure.
Molly lube all metal to metal parts.
Done
With a good tune the triggers are almost as good as the Marauder triggers.
Gunfun1
Do you think the marauder pistol grip trigger and the RAI adjustable stock adapter will fit on the Fortitude? -Don
Benji-Don,
It has been a long time but isn’t it possible to use a Marauder trigger group with an adapter for this?
shootski
Shootski,
I don’t remember for sure. I think the gen 1 Marauder or the Challenger trigger parts or trigger assembly can be adapted. Gunfun1 would remember.
The pistol triggers like the 13XX series will accept the parts from the Marauder pistol to make them two stage.
There is nothing like a good predictable trigger to take the stress out of shooting accurately.
Don
I’ll probably leave the trigger alone on the gen2 Fortitude I’m getting.
I would have to think it would be comparable in feel to a Discovery or Maximus trigger. I never modded the triggers on those guns and I shot them very accurately.
Who knows though. We shall see.
My (limited) experience with regulators is that they take some time to fill, as mentioned for the Fortitude here. If that’s the case, how does something like the Sig Sauer Virtus manage a regulated output with fairly rapid fire capabilities? Is it a different type of regulator? I suspect the shot-2-shot variance will be larger on something like the Virtus, but I haven’t experienced a regulator that operates that quickly. Any insights?
Bristolview,
While I can not comment with specifics to your question,….. for a single shot,…. anything longer than taking a normal re-load is too slow. Same for a magazine gun. Anything longer than a normal bolt cycle is too slow. A regulated automatic would be a tall order.
Chris
Yep, if the regulator takes significantly longer to stabilize than it takes me to reload I’ll take non regulated. 30 seconds is unacceptable. My Fortitude once brok in is ok in the time it takes me to reload and take aim with the single shot tray. That is acceptable for me maybe 5 seconds.
Chris U,
You just made a good argument for the the ugly duckling bottle adapter, especially on my 2260 with the large tube after the regulated bottle. I need to test it rapid fire. I think the large reservoir after the bottle should dampen any slow regulator effects. I will give it a shot; rapid fire, if you help pay for a new chrony if it is destroyed. Just kidding. ✌️That would be a good test.
Don
Don and Chris
That’s why when I put that adapter on my Maximus for the regulated bottle I left the air reservoir tube about 8 or so inches long in front of the air gauge port. I wanted extra volume of the regulated air pressure going to the guns valve.
Bristolview
I have a Sig MPX and have the same regulated HPA bottle like the Sig Vertus on it. I plink rapid fire at cans and the gun always hits hard. And I have rapid fired at paper unloading all 30 pellets and point of impact stays pretty consistent.
I have a bunch of those regulated bottles on several guns and the regulators do seem to be faster than the internal ones like the Fortiude has. Which I have had a few guns with the internal regulators also. I myself like the regulated bottles the best. Plus if you do need to work on them they are exposed and you can just change out the bottle until you get the other one up and running. Just simply screw it off and screw the new one back on the gun.
Bristolview,
As with everything, at least most of the time, you get what you pays for. There are paintball regulators that cost double or triple what the typical regulator costs. Fit and finish (internal) are an issue but from experience the big reason for regulator creep fill is the quality of the spring(s) used. I have started looking into getting “learned up” about springs:
https://www.newcombspring.com/
://smihq.org
I am not a spring piston guy but i think we are using Stone Age springs in airguns! I think all the powerplants could be improved by a significant amount IF we didnt keep dong it the same as always!
Just one example; a striker/hammer spring with a progressive spring rate as it moves toward the valve stem. It would allow better control 9f dwell as well as rebound and resultant waisted air.
shootski
Shootski,
Years ago I got schooled up on car strut springs. Wire diameter can vary along the length. Coil diameter and variable wind/pitch along the length too. Like you,… I think there is much to be learned/re-examined from other industries and new developments.
Chris
GF 1 and Benji-don
I bought a gen 2 Fortitude .22 last summer when they first came back out.I have mine tuned to about 14 1/2 fpe. Gets 70 shots or more. Ran out of pellets at shot 73 so who knows when it would have fallen off the reg. At 35 yds it will put 10 shots under 1/2 in. easily. Great little gun out to 45 or 50 yds. Rabbits,tree rats, birds and such stand little chance! For the bigger stuff and longer ranges I have my Condor SS .22. JSB redesigned Monsters of 25.39 gr. doing 940 fps are putting out close to 50 fpe. That’s a hunters dream!
The Fortitude is a great little truck gun and backyard plinker and I will keep it around for a long time
Bruce
Bruce,
You summed up the Fortitude perfectly. Mine is .177. I already had a Marauder and RAW in .22 caliber. The Fortitude is great for a truck gun or one to sit by the door for quick action. Mine is about the same at 35 Yards.
I love the redesigned monsters they are a favorite in my RAW. I am working on moa at 100 yds with them and the FX slugs in my RAW. The friggin virus has interrupted my 100 yd range construction and testing this year.
Glad you chimed in.
Don
Don
Have you tried the NSA 24.8 gr hollow point slugs? They are just plain “mean”! I haven’t got to try at 100 + yds yet, just got it right after 1 st of the year. When the weather finally got good enough to drive out to the country to shoot the travel ban kicked in, but I can tell you, nothing in my backyard is untouched. 35 yds isn’t much but it helps me keep my sanity!
Bruce
Bruce,
Nope haven’t tried the NSA slugs. I have a set of the H&N slugs in both sizes and weights from last year. No chance to test yet. I seem to remember NSA at the Pacific Airgun Show last year. I used to cast my slugs in black powder years ago. 50 caliber was relatively easy, I think small caliber .25 and less would be tricky. Glad to hear your good luck with the NSA slugs. The F X slugs are 22 gr so they are close. The FX Slugs look like the are better formed than the H&N slugs but as Gunfun1 says you don’t know till you try it on paper.
Don
Bruce
Thanks for the update.
That’s what I’m hoping for out of my Fortitude I just ordered. And I have a .25 caliber Condor SS thats shooting the JSB 33.95 grain pellets 960 fps at 70 fpe. It’s one of the flattest shooting .25 caliber pcp’s that I have owned. And I wont bore you with some of the shots it has made. Totally like my Condor SS.
GF 1-
I originally planned on getting a .25 barrel along with the .22 but with all the newer ammo choices in .22 cal I don’t see the need for it. Shooting the same weight pellets at the same speed, the .22 actually ends up with a slightly higher B.C. Won’t be too much longer when “they” might “allow” me to get out of town for a little “pesting” testing! Got an invite to a p dog hunt that has been leased for airgun hunting only for all summer.
Bruce
Bruce
Cool with the prairie dog hunting. Let me know how that goes. Always interested in hearing about some airgun pesting.
FYI,
Info. from another site,….. A of A has a big increase in “pre-owned” sale offerings,…. maybe from an estate sale? Just passing it on for anyone interested.
Chris
Now you are enabling.
Chris
I’m just now finishing reading through the posts and I just mentioned that to RidgeRunner above.
Funny thing is none of them interest me. Don’t ask me.
Well at the moment anyway. 😉
Don425
I’m guessing right now till I get the Fortitude in my hand. But if its like the Maximus or the old Discovery’s the Marauder pistol grip and butt stock adapter will work.
There are multiple different RAI adapters for the Crosman and Benjamin guns. And like I said once I get my gen2 Fortitude in my hand I’ll be able to say more. So I’ll give a update then.
Gunfun1,
Thanks. I will watch for your comments. Enjoy you new gun. – Don
Don
Thanks. And hopefully I can let you know soon. I expect the gun by Thursday or Friday. Maybe Saturday with this covid stuff going on. But so far things that I have ordered have been on time as normal. We shall see.