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RAW

A first look at a RAW: Part 2

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by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

RAW
The RAW field target rifle built on the new chassis frame.

Part 1

This report covers:

  • Website and blog update
  • It was a cold and windy day
  • The rifle
  • Power set at max
  • November 23 Accuracy Testing
  • December 26 — cold-weather and moderator testing
  • January 2 Accuracy Testing
  • January 8 Accuracy Testing
  • Summary

Website and blog update

Pyramyd AIR will be redoing the website and the blog design next week. The anticipated cutover date is Wednesday evening, 1/27/21. Therefore today is my last blog posting before the new site goes live next Thursday. There is a possibility that the blog will also be dark on Thursday, 1/28/21.

Nobody likes missing the blog for several days, but I will use the time to get several things done that take a lot of time. Please bear with us as we make this transition. Now on to today’s report.

A special look inside development

I hope you readers appreciate what this report is giving you. Reader Cloud9 is testing a purpose-built RAW field target rifle. It’s not that RAW rifles haven’t competed in field target before. Many have. But this is the first one built especially for that purpose. You are getting a look over the shoulder of a field target competitor as he sorts out his new match outfit. We talk about stuff like this all the time on this blog but seeing it is quite rare.

It was a cold and windy day

Remember that nasty 40-degree day I reported to you on January 12, when I tested the BSA R10 Mark II? We were all surprised at the greater-that-one-inch groups I got from an air rifle that’s supposed to be quite accurate, but several of you allowed that it’s difficult to shoot at 50 yards when you’re cold and the wind is blowing. Reader Yogi even said he read the weather report and the wind was gusting 15-20 mph, while I had reported 5-10 mph. The wind came from my back, so downrange it was swirling.

Seated next to me was Cloud9, shooting his RAW for the umpteenth time. He was trying to find the one best pellet for the rifle, and this was not a good day to do that. Still, it was what it was.

Remember that this RAW has to shoot at less than 12 foot-pounds because Cloud9 is competing in the World Field Target Federation (WFTF) class that restricts the power of the rifle. In his own words:

The rifle

My rifle is a new RAW TM1000 in .177 caliber, set up to shoot just under 12 foot-pounds muzzle energy to be legal for World Field Target Federation competitions in the US and around the world.  It was manufactured in Burleson, TX and Minor Hill, TN.  The parts were produced in the AirForce factory in Texas because this gun was built after the acquisition of RAW by AirForce in 2018.  It has the same tried and true TM1000 action, but in a new aluminum chassis.  It has a single-shot breech, a regulator, a 250bar (3600psi) titanium pressure vessel, a black aluminum chassis and an AR-15 buffer tube and adjustable buttstock. I added a RAW butthook in place of the buttpad, and also a Rowan Engineering adjustable forend (that I call a hamster), and a very comfortable ergonomic target grip.

Stock Up on Shooting Gear

Power set at max

Part One of this report concluded with data derived on October 30 and 31 of 2020. I was trying to shoot the JSB Exact 8.44-grain dome because at my power threshold I get velocities of between 790 and 800 f.p.s. I am right at 12 foot-pounds when this pellet reaches 800.09 f.p.s.

I leave the FX Radar Pocket Wireless Chronograph attached to the outside of my moderator and it tells me the velocities of each shot through my smart phone. That way I know what each shot does without having to concentrate on a set of skyscreens. I am free to concentrate on the targets. The radar measures velocity as the pellet leaves the muzzle and I have determined that this chronograph is within 5 f.p.s. of what my other chrony registers.

RAW FX radar chrono
I use the FX Radar chrono attached to my moderator.

November 23 Accuracy Testing

Today, I went back out to the range very early to shoot some more groups. There were a few differences this time. First, instead of shootiung off a bench I shot while sitting on my bum bag with my shooting coat on. I supported the rifle on my knee and nestled the butt hook in my shoulder. This is how I shoot in matches. I had decided to see how the rifle shoots under actual match conditions.  

Second, I was shooting next to the concrete wall that separates the 100-yard range I was on from its neighbor range, so there was very little wind to affect my shots.  However, what very slight wind there was tended to swirl and was unpredictable.  I ended up shooting 80 shots @ 60yards using JSB 4.50mm pellets.  I didn’t use the 4.51mm head size because they were in very short supply, and the 4.50mm are very plentiful.  I plan to sort some more pellets this week, so that I have plenty of 4.51mm to shoot going forward.  Here are the results of my shooting session.  At 60 yards, my rifle with this pellet will shoot 1.30” groups or 2 MOA.

RAW FX 60 shots
Eighty shots at 60 yards.

That group size is larger than I expected, and I believe there are some contributing factors.  To start, there was some wind swirling that I know moved some pellets slightly. This was shot at 60 yards.  Next, when shooting off a bumbag and supporting the rifle, it is not as steady as it can be while supported with shooting bags on a bench.  

Finally, I noticed that if I didn’t hold the rifle exactly the same each time (same pressure on grip, same supporting pressure on hamster, same support of right elbow on right knee, and same smooth trigger pull where I am surprised when it goes off, then the pellet would not hit where I was aiming. 

The hold-sensitivity is something I am going to have to work on to reduce or if I cannot do that, then I will have to adapt to it.  One thing I may try is adding weights to the rifle to increase its inertia, or resistance to movement.  A heavier rifle should be less hold-sensitive because it will not move as much when fired.

December 26 — cold-weather and moderator testing

Back at the end of October, I mentioned that with colder temps I was experiencing a poi change that I needed to understand better.  In the first portion of this article, there were some questions asked on the blog about my terminology of scope shift and clarifications were made by myself and others. 

To summarize, at cold temperatures using the side-focus wheel, my scope ranges approximately 4 yards short at 55 yards (indicates 51 yards instead of 55 yards).  Because the scope ranging was slightly short at the last field target match, I had unknowingly added fewer clicks for elevation than I should for what was in reality a 55 yard target. My pellets landed low on the target and I missed!  The poi change was caused by a scope ranging error and not by any other changes in the scope or velocity changes in the gun.  Now that I know to add up to 4 yards to long distance targets over 45 yards, my pellets hit where I aim.

I also mentioned that it seemed the rifle was a little more hold-sensitive than I preferred. To add some weight to the rifle, I removed the the adjustable stock that came with the rife and installed a Magpul PRS Gen3 Precision-Adjustable Stock.  The Magpul’s cheek rest and buttpad have precision dial adjusters with firm clicks that keep them locked in place.  In addition, there is no flex to the buttstock as a result of its robust construction and added mass.

RAW Magpul PRS stock
Magpul PRS buttstock.

Now for the testing, all of which was from the bench using sandbags.  I shot Air Arms 8.44-grain pellets with 4.49mm diameter heads, JSB 8.44-grain pellets with 4.50mm diameter heads and H&N Field Target Trophy 8.64-grain pellets with 4.51mm diameter heads today.  That is a smattering of pellets, and the reason is that I have a baseline for the Air Arms and JSBs of this size but I didn’t have any of my preferred 4.51mm yet.  I decided to try some H&N FTT pellets that are 4.51mm, just to see what would happen.

With the new stock, the group sizes for the Air Arms & JSB pellets were about the same as in previous testing, but it was a little easier to achieve those groups. Perhaps this result is because the added mass of the new buttstock has settled the rifle down a bit and allowed me to hold it more consistently. Or maybe the result was all psychological and I was just shooting more consistently on this day.  I really cannot attribute any improvement to the stock, but I prefer the way the rifle now feels in my hands, especially during a shot.

I wanted to see what the H&N FTT pellets would do, but the group sizes were larger than the Air Arms or JSB, so I quickly decided these weren’t the pellets for this gun.  I do really like these pellets in my HW-97K springers though.

For one final change today, I shot the rifle both with and without the silencer to determine its effect on group sizes. I did see a poi change when adding and removing the silencer, but I could not definitively say that the group sizes were better or worse with or without it.  I will shoot with it going forward, because I like the sound of silence!

January 2 Accuracy Testing

To try and learn some more about my rifle with the intent to reduce the size of the groups, I investigated the effect of increasing and decreasing the velocity that it sends pellets downrange.  After some reading on the internet, I began thinking that perhaps the pellets’ forward velocity was slowing more rapidly than the spin rate at longer distances and perhaps causing them to nutate and precess, resulting in a spiral at longer distances that decreased accuracy. One way to find out is to increase and decrease the muzzle velocity of the pellet and the resulting rotational RPM from the barrel twist, then I can evaluate those changes on group size.  There was no wind this morning, so any group size changes shouldn’t be skewed arbitrarily by it.  All of today’s testing was from the bench using sandbags using JSB 8.44-grain 4.50mm head pellets.

So far, I can say that I’m not seeing much difference in group size by slowing the pellets down.  I started at 795 f.p.s. and reduced the velocity in 20 f.p.s. steps to 740 f.p.s., but the group sizes looked the same.  I also increased the velocity to 820 f.p.s. before I had to halt my testing session and I saw some improvement, but I cannot be sure without further testing.  To be clear, I was testing at muzzle energies greater than 12 foot-pounds, but I won’t be able to do the same in a WFTF field target match.  I would show my results, but I can’t find the targets from this day, so I’ll have to do this over at a later date. 

January 8 Accuracy Testing

This morning, I finally had a chance to test a tin of JSB 8.44-grain, 4.53mm head size pellets that arrived over Christmas.  I never trust the labels on the tins of pellets for head size or weight, so I sorted the tin using the PelletgageR from Jerry Cupples.  Approximately 50 percent of the tin had pellets with head sizes between 4.51 to 4.53mm, with the other half being smaller than 4.51mm.

I also tested about 20 JSB 10.3-grain pellets that Tom Gaylord brought for me, but these weren’t sorted.  I quickly sorted them into 2 piles (4.50mm & 4.51mm).  Tom promised to send me some other pellets that are 4.52mm or larger to test next time. 

All of today’s testing was from the bench using sandbags at 50 yards.  The temperature was 42 degrees F and the winds were swirling at about 9 mph on the range.  The wind definitely affected the group sizes.  I tried to keep notes about when the wind blew or not and resulted in obvious flyers, so that I could try and exclude those shots in my analysis and determine the true capability of the rifle and ammo.

I started with the JSB 10.3-grain pellets from Tom.  These pellets came out of the muzzle at 735 f.p.s.

RAW JSB 10.3 pellets

You can see in this first group that the 14-shot group is 1.144” (2.19 MOA) CTC which is not promising, but the wind was blowing from left to right mostly, so if I try and exclude the probable flyers, the group size shrinks to .685” (1.31 MOA) which is very promising.

Group size was 1.039 inches (1.99MOA) with these JSB pellets, so I think they are not the right ones either.  I do plan to test some additional JSB 10.3-grain pellets when I get some 4.52mm head sizes.

Now I moved on to my sorted JSB 8.44-grain 4.52mm head size pellets, flying downrange at 795 f.p.s. On these next targets I tried to focus on getting 5 good shots and ignoring obvious flyers or impacts affected by wind.

RAW JSB sorted pellets 1

Throwing out three fliers from wind, my first 5-shot group at 50 yards measured just over one-half inch!

EDITOR’S NOTE: I will break in here because I was there to witness what happened. After this first group Cloud9 was very excited. Had he finally found the right pellet for his rifle? He sure hoped so!

RAW JSA 844 sorted pellets 2
Group 2 is 3/8-inches (0.375-inches) between centers at 50 yards and only one pellet is disregarded.

RAW JSA 844 sorted pellets 3
This 50-yard group is slightly larger than the last, at 0.401-inches between centers, but there are no fliers!

RAW JSA 844 sorted pellets 4
These five shots are in 0.201-inches at 50 yards. Sure there are two fliers, but even with them this group is well under an inch.

Summary

I’m going to stop there. Cloud9 was beside himself at this point, because I had been shooting inch-plus groups right next to him with a rifle that was far more powerful. And up to this point, he had been doing p[retty much the same thing. This JSB pellet with a sorted 4.53mm head was looking very good in his rifle.

I had now switched to shooting the .458 Texan that I also recently reported to you. When I finished with that we both ended our range day and went to AirForce to share the goods news with John McCaslin. He was delighted to learn of the success of the day and he and Cloud9 spent some time talking about the design of the field target RAW. I left to start writing my next blog.

There is more to come, but we are taking this slow because there is so much to digest as the testing unfolds.

author avatar
Tom Gaylord (B.B. Pelletier)
Tom Gaylord, also known as B.B. Pelletier, provides expert insights to airgunners all over the world on behalf of Pyramyd AIR. He has earned the title The Godfather of Airguns™ for his contributions to the industry, spending many years with AirForce Airguns and starting magazines dedicated to the sport such as Airgun Illustrated.
See Full Bio

233 thoughts on “A first look at a RAW: Part 2”

    • Yogi,

      From Part 1

      “Nine mounted a Sightron SIII FT 10-56X60 scope in Burris signature mounts that have a +/- 10 degree tilt that he adjusted down, of course. He uses a BKL dovetail-to-Picatinny riser to elevate the scope to his sighting eye. He has also mounted a thermometer to the scope to help figure out the scope shift as the temperature changes.”

      BB

    • Not sure if ranging is 70% of it, but it is important. Then you also need to know where your pellet is on the parabolic trajectory at each yard between 10-55 yards, and you need to compensate for wind, and also sit motionless!

      • Cloud 9,

        Forget the bench and practice in your FT position. PCP’s are not supposed to be hold sensitive.
        Sounds like you are a clickerer? Why bother shooting at 60 yards when 55 is the max in a match?
        I shoot Hunter FT, piston class, not very well I might add…lol.

        -Y

        PS the serious guys at my range, with the Styers, set out a target, measured by tape, every yard from 10-55.

        • Yogi, before shooting in my FT position, I want to understand what the true capability of the rifle is. Then I know how much I have to work with regarding the size of the group relative to the size of the kill zone. And I will tell you that PCPs can be a little bit hold-sensitive, even though they aren’t supposed to be. I’ve shot Hunter and WFTF spring-powered rifles for the last 7 years, so I understand your pain with being able to achieve the ultimate accuracy with a springer. It can be done and I’ve done it, but it takes lots of practice and consistency.
          Yes I click for elevation on the scope as is allowed in WFTF class. I typically shoot at 60 yards for my farthest point, just in case a target is mistakenly placed beyond 55 yards (which would be illegal, but it does happen).

          • C9,

            When you entered in Hunter class, what scope did you use?
            I am surprised that no good scope maker makes a 16X scope just for Hunter class, with a decent ranging reticle. Maybe B.B. can convince Meopeta to make one?

            Long time till next Wednesday…

            -Y

            • Yogi,

              A couple problems with your desire. First — it is impossible to rangefind beyond a very close distance with a 16X scope because it doesn’t magnify small things enough for you to bring them into coincidence — that you can see.

              And second, rangefinding in the Hunter class is not permitted.

              BB

              • B.B.

                The are 2 ways of rangefinding; one is bracketing, the other is with your parallax adjustment.
                Yes 16X scope does not have as shallow a depth of field as a high powered scope, but it is better than nothing. You are not allowed to click, but you are allowed to play with A/o adjustment. Which is why a quality optic company like Meopeta would do very well if their scopes has a narrow depth of field. These are not English hunter class rules where you are not allowed to adjust anything once the match begins.

                -Y

              • BB,
                You are correct in your statements about rangefinding with 16x, and as someone later said, we are allowed to rangefinder in the AAFTA Hunter class, but not click the turrets. I always felt comfortable ranging out to about 40 yards, before I switched to the hash marks on the horizontal axis and used those for “bracketing” a known object to determine the distance. Most clubs in the US clamp their targets to a half-height concrete block from Home Depot, so it is relatively easy to develop a bracketing chart for that block width versus distance. If the target isn’t clamped to a concrete block, AAFTA rules state that any target beyond 45 yards must have a 1.5” kill zone, and knowing that you can develop another bracketing chart for hole size versus distance over 45 yards. Bracketing a known dimension on a target is a very accurate way to determine its range and therefore, how much holdover you must have to hit the kill zone.

      • Cloud 9,

        I sit in my sea kayak for a much as a 14-15 hour day when I pilot (escort ) a Marathon Swimmer. My backless seat in the EPIC is unpadded but custom formed to my anatomy out of Carbon/Kevlar and completely smooth; I don’t have any extra padding on me. Other sea kayakers use all manner of foam padding and typically can’t last anywhere near as long.
        When they try my boat they are almost always amazed at how locked in to the kayak they feel. One last thought i only wear bottoms with minimal seams to avoid chaffing and pressure spots. A molded seat may be part of the answer, if legal, to added stability and comfort.
        You said you didn’t know if the new Buttstock improved groups and then said it felt better. My thought is that that reaction says your mental focus was better because even minor discomfort has been shown to take mental energy to overcome.
        Given as free advice…we all know how that goes!

        best regards!

        shootski

  2. Could that Chrono have affected the accuracy? Not sure how or where it mounts.
    Made a late entry on the last SAM blog. My 2 cents about the hollow bolt if anyone is interested.
    Bob M

    • Bob,

      “I leave the FX Radar Pocket Wireless Chronograph attached to the outside of my moderator…”

      The moderator is at the end of the barrel. The chronograph mounts with elastic bands attached to the feet and wrapped around the moderator.

      BB

    • Bob, you are correct that adding weight to a barrel will change the frequency at which it vibrates (harmonics) and therefore also change the POI of the pellets. During my testing with the FX Chronograph attached to the barrel and also without it attached, I have not noticed a change in group size of any significance. As I mentioned in the write up, the head size of the pellets was the single largest contributor to reducing the size of the groups so far. Now, on my Whiscombe JW50 with the HOTS weight on the end, I do notice a change in group sizes by screwing the weight in or out and thereby changing the barrel harmonics. There is a sweet spot with that rifle that you must find through lots of shooting.

        • GF1,
          I hope that I was clear in my stream of consciousness writing to document all of the things that I tried, but just in case I wasn’t I’ll try to say it clearly here.

          I discovered (as many other target shooters already know and as BB has mentioned in this blog with other rifles) that the size of the pellet and how well it fits the barrel is the greatest contributor to accuracy. You cannot trust the head size printed on the tin of pellets if you want the ultimate accuracy from your rifle, so that is why I measure each of them and sort them into groups. I have been shooting the JSB 8.44gr pellet almost exclusively in my testing, but I’ve been shooting different head sizes from 4.49mm – 4.53mm during that time. In this latest write up, the heads that are truly 4.52mm in diameter have resulted in the smallest groups.

          Hope that makes it clear. Cheers!

          • Cloud9
            Yep know what you meant. I guess the confusion came with a conversation me and BB had the other day. He said you found a pellet that did even better than the JSB 10.34’s. So I had in my mind that it was something different than you have already tried.

            What he didn’t mention was that it was pellets you already have used but with the magic head diameter.

            So that’s what threw me. I was expecting something like a different brand or something on those lines.

  6. BB,

    On this transition,… will today’s blog be active thru Wed. 1/27 (to post and respond)?

    I see nothing on the PA site announcing any interruption. Will it (the PA site) be active, like normal, until/up to the transition on Wed. 1/27 PM? (shop/order/etc.)

    I thought that sites stayed up until the time of the switch over,… went down for a few,.. and then came back up.

    I guess the Mon. – Wed gap in the blog has me confused. I understand that there might be issues with start up on Thurs.. Hopefully all goes well.

    Chris

  7. Will miss one of my “favoritest” blogs – I know, that’s a fake word – or a Manuel one, for the Fawlty Towers fans out there – but no doubt you can use a break and we look forward to your return. Today’s report shows how much is involved in prepping for shooting competition…good, interesting report.

  8. BB,

    That was strange. Part 1 was posted on Dec 22nd and Part 2 is posted on Jan 22nd.

    It is refreshing to hear that John McCaslin is doing his best to keep the RAW quality high.

      • BB,

        It will be interesting to see where he takes it as long as he does not lose sight of where it came from.

        One thing I have noticed is the .357 HM1000X is no longer available except maybe as a dealer’s new old stock. That is somewhat understandable as the .357 block is larger than the .177, .22, .25, .30 block. With those it is a simple matter to change calibers. Not so with the .357. It is it’s own beast.

  9. B.B.,

    Here’s hoping that the new blog and Pyramyd site are successful on the first try. From 20 years in IT, I know to expect some “shake out” time needed on and after day one of a new site. We readers will be patient.

    Regarding the RAW rifle, I note in your other blogs that barrel harmonics are mentioned as affecting accuracy. Might the FX Radar chronograph mounted at the end of the barrel have an adverse effect? Also when the chrono is removed might that introduce a change in accuracy? I’m certain that you and Cloud 9 have considered these matters, but I’m not so well informed and have to ask.

    Dan

    • Dan, you are correct that adding weight to a barrel will change the frequency at which it vibrates (harmonics) and therefore also change the POI of the pellets. During my testing with the FX Chronograph attached to the barrel and also without it attached, I have not noticed a change in group size of any significance. As I mentioned in the write up, the head size of the pellets was the single largest contributor to reducing the size of the groups so far. Now, on my Whiscombe JW50 with the HOTS weight on the end, I do notice a change in group sizes by screwing the weight in or out and thereby changing the barrel harmonics. There is a sweet spot with that rifle that you must find through lots of shooting.

      • C 9,

        As I’ve observed your attention to detail and your single-minded pursuit of the perfect FT rifle, I was certain that barrel harmonics will have been considered. I’m wondering if there is a threshold weight that should not be exceeded when considering attaching items to a barrel? I suspect that the answer is “It depends.”

        It seems that each airgun is unique, even within models from the same manufacturer. I’m learning that these are a long way from my firearm experience. Even in the upper echelon of airguns, one must patiently sort them. This blog has been instructive. I have a different attitude toward my airguns. Rather than trying to find the “perfect”, I need to back up a few steps and learn what is needed in order to improve what I have. Even the experienced owner has to massage the airgun to get the best out of it.

        The FX chrony is a bit heavier at 0.5 lb than I expected. Might that weight include the AAA batteries or are they added to the 0.5 lb.?

        Dan

  10. Cloud 9,

    Thanks for sharing your journey with a new FT project. Reminds us about all the moving parts to achieve ulitimate accuracy in our “pedestrian” airguns.

    I’ve also found that FTT and FTS pellets perform very well in most Weihrauch barrels.

    How do you store your sorted pellets for traveling to and from the range and matches?

  11. B.B., you’ve been working like crazy for years; you deserve a break…enjoy!
    Cloud 9, it’s been 15 years since I shot Field Target; this well-written blog brought back memories; thank you!
    Happy shooting to all,
    dave

  13. For those of use who will be going though withdrawal pains while this blog is on hiatus, may I suggest looking at this website. They have links to all different and weird airguns. I bet even some B.B. has never heard off.
    http://cinedux.com

    Hope you enjoy?

    -Yogi

    • Yogi,

      Trevor Adams is in an elite class of vintage airgunners that can be count on one hand in my opinion. I’ve done business with Trevor.

      Vintage Airguns and their history are so important IMHO in order to know Where we have come from, How we got here, What we are doing and Where we are going and Why.

      Not sure many folks understand the role that B.B. played in bringing Adult airguns in America out of the shadows and into the forefront. Airgun Revue by Tom Gaylord was pivotal. Beeman’s semi annual sales catalogues opened the eyes of America to airguns YOU COULD BUY but Tom Gaylord with Airgun Revue and the predecessor to the yellow forum EDUCATED airgunners on what strides airguns had taken with in depth reviews and dialogue that awakened America to especially what had been going on across the pond.

      Honestly, the best thing that Mr. Gaylord has done for me regarding airguns is to incentivize my delving deeply into the enthusiastic collectors of vintage airguns and thus being fortunate to absorb their knowledge and inadvertently their passion. The byproduct hasn’t just been gaining an interesting history of airguns but getting to know some VERY interesting people. Several of my memorable times with a passionate airgunner were spent with Mr. Gaylord. I’m forever grateful.

      • Kevin,

        I have been blessed to have spent a little time with “The Godfather”. He was the one who encouraged me to open RidgeRunner’s Home For Wayward Airguns where a few of the “old gals” have come to relax and enjoy times on the range, hanging around and looking pretty and getting a good oil rub down every once in a while.

        I really enjoy seeing and hearing of the new “latest and greatest” and I own a couple of “modern” airguns, but I will never enjoy those as much as I do the “old gals”.

        • RidgeRunner,

          I know you’ve said several times on the blog that you found your vintage BSA at Roanoke that B.B. encouraged you to acquire.

          Don’t know if we were at the same show when that happened but it was at Roanoke in 2010 where I first met B.B. At that same show I also met Earl “Mac” Macdonald, Dennis Quackenbush, Lloyd Sykes, Davis Schweishinger sp.?, Mike Driskill, Paul Watts and others. Was nice to put a face to folks that I had been communicating with for years. What a good time.

          /blog/2010/10/the-2010-roanoke-airgun-expo-day-one/

          • Kevin,

            I first started going to the Roanoke show in 2005. That is when I met Gary Barnes and Fred Liady. I did not meet BB until 2009 and Mac until 2010. I have been to Lloyd’s house a couple of times for Fun Shoots and go to the North Carolina show with him on occasion. I have met Dennis a few times at the Roanoke show. Do not ask him about his outside lock airguns.

            Airgun shows are awesome! Every airgunner should go to at least one.

    • RR

      Hope readers will check out Jimmie Dee (first site listed above) report on Leading In a Barrel. His test target accuracy dramatically improved as he approached 100 shots with the same pellet.

      Deck

      • Deck
        I have mentioned that to BB when he trys different pellets in a gun for his accuracy test.

        10 different pellets at a time is not a good way to test to see if your gun likes a pellet or not.

        I like at the least 30 pellets to 50 at a time to see if the pellets accurate in a gun.

        • Gunfun1

          I don’t know if this blog is still up and running. Seasoning a barrel with a favorite pellet has been mentioned quite a number of times, letting the bore get used to the pellet. But 100 shots and then suddenly group sizes shrink or they did in Dees’s test.
          I don’t do much cleaning or one way bore brushing. Will do this test on a big store Ruger that initially could get sub 1 inch groups at 25 yards with 3 different pellets. Not so anymore. We shall see.

          Stay safe.

          Deck

          • Deck
            Thanks. You stay safe too.

            And don’t know. Maybe that’s when the barrel finally got loaded right. But it happened. So that’s good.

            And interested in how your Ruger does. And I know I said it before. But try oiling your barrel with a few drops of light oil first and see what happens. Let me know what you end up with and what you did.

            • GF1

              Test has already begun. Had already pulled a Bore Snake through 30 times one way from breach to muzzle. As suggested I applied a small amount of Ballistol on a felt bore push through before shooting. Shot 8 ten shot groups today with FTT >5.54 mm but not conclusive enough to comment. Weather permitting I will have something this week to report.

              Deck

                • Gunfun1

                  Finished testing my box store Ruger (above). Eight 10 shot groups yesterday and six more today at 25 yards.Temp was high 40’s both days and mild 2-3 mph winds. Group scores were:
                  2.08 inches
                  1.47 “
                  1.25 “
                  1.34 “
                  1.59 “
                  1.72 “
                  1.15 “
                  1.00 “
                  2.47 “
                  1.68 “
                  1.65 “
                  1.56 “
                  1.72 “
                  1.47 “
                  Conclusion is nothing was proved except my rifle still won’t shoot straight. A couple of years ago it would group just under one inch at 25 yards with 3 different pellets using this artillery hold. I wanted to see if “leading the barrel” with one pellet would help bring it back under an inch. Obviously it didn’t. I wasted 140 Field Target pellets >5 .54 mm but I had to find out.

                  I am not questioning the merits of Jimmie Dee’s method. It’s just my rifle. I got my hopes up with groups 7 & 8 yesterday but they were dashed today.

                  Deck

                  • Deck
                    Did you try putting a few drops of light oil in the barrel and shoot some groups?

                    Usually the first 10 shots are all over the place then the more I shoot the more it pulls together then stabilizes.

                    If you get a chance try it. That would be a good test now after you tryed the other test you just done.

                    I would like to know.

                    • Gunfun1

                      As said earlier I put a light layer of Ballistol on lands and grooves but maybe not enough. Today I put more than a few drops down the bore figuring the excess would be shot out. Only got to shoot two groups, the first was about 3 inches and the second a very vertical 2 inches. Will try a couple more but I don’t like the strange looking patterns or their size.

                      Deck

                  • Deck
                    I think the vertical groups are from your hold.

                    I think you said you was using the artillery hold. I would try resting a finger on the stock with your fore hand. I think it will tighten your groups up. And maybe even place your trigger hand thumb on top of the stock behind the back of the action of the gun.

                    I have had good luck tightening up my groups on springers by doing that. Even my TX 200.

                    Just a suggestion.

                    • Gunfun1

                      So the rifle’s weight would be on a bag if I understand. The fore hand finger would be on the stock forend nearest the muzzle.

                      I’m ready to try it, just let me know.

                      Thank you.

                      Deck

      • Decksniper,

        I had seen the page before but had never navigated to that article. Thank you.

        He reached an interesting conclusion but i wonder how much that can be depended on without say, another ten barrels tested? He doesn’t make the wild claims for the magic solution to accuracy, that some others have been known to do, but rather just presents it as an observation for consideration.
        When i have a barrel that just doesn’t shoot after initial cleaning and at least 500 rounds down the pipe i will hand lap it if it had a acceptable pattern that just wasn’t tight enough or I just install a new barrel (if available) and start the hunt for accuracy all over. I think the tendency is to find the “perfect” pellet/bullet too soon as a potential mistake made all too often. Finding pellets/bullets that shoot an acceptable shaped pattern is more important to me early on (first 500 down the pipe) than finding the pellet/bullet that shoots the smallest group, especially with “UNCALLED flyers discounted” right from the start.
        I know some will think that is insulting to B.B.’s method but it isn’t the same kind of testing that is driven by his tight deadline and numbers of project guns in the Blog test queue.

        Thanks again for the lead in to his article!
        Pun intended ;^)

        shootski

        • Shootski

          I agree Jimmie Dee is not pushing a miracle cure. It got my antennae up so I tried it on a box store rifle I bought used a few years ago. The velocity varies quite a lot which may well explain its inaccuracy. Not worth spending good money after bad trying to fix it. I’ll either sell it as a plinker or let it sit.

          Thanks.

          Deck

  16. Cloud 9,

    What is your opinion of pellet sizing (as in sizing down with a die)?

    I have a Pelletgage in .25. I have also weighed. While the Pelletgage is good, I do feel it is somewhat subjective.

    To me, (if) you could get your pellets in 4.54 – 4.58 (for example),.. and then size them all down to 4.53,… would that be better than sorting with a Pelletgage? I realize this is somewhat hypothetical in that you can’t trust what is on the can/what you order,… to in fact be larger, when that is what you want.

    Also, what is your opinion on weight variance? I will usually sort my head size, then weight. In .25, I can usually put at least some in each bin of an egg carton. I measure to the first place (00.X). They of course have a bell curve distribution. I tend to shoot them all, but try to keep the pellets +/- .1 within each other.

    Thanks,… Chris

    • Chris USA,

      Do the larger head size pellets usually weight more?
      I alway assumed(dangerous thing to do) that sizing a pellet down would be heavier than a “normal” correctly sized pellet. Thus it would defeat some of the purpose to create uniform pellets…

      -Y

      • Yogi,

        I do not know. I head size first then weigh. Distribution seems about the same. They might, but I think it has more to do with the individual cavity differences.

        To me,…. shoving a can of pellets through a sizer is WAY easier than a Pelletgage. Problem is,… finding pellets that are at the large(er) end of what might be the maximum size desired. I am not sure that even exists.

        On weight,… Shootski brought up a good point one time in that,…. ( .1 ) grain will matter a lot more in a .177 pellet,…. than a much heavier .25 pellet. (% of weight)

        Some might argue too that sizing a very fat pellet might alter the profile enough -VS- sizing a smaller pellet that is nearly the desired size.

        Chris

        • Chris
          One of these days I guess I need to try some head sorting and such again when I have more time. (After I retire)

          All I can say is I should have some very very accurate guns after I sort because I got some real accurate guns right now. And I haven’t sorted for a long time now.

          One more thing on my to do list when I retire. 🙂

    • Hi Chris,
      I have sized pellets before and that is also a good way to get consistent head sizes. Sizing can be faster if you just push the pellets through a die. There are some thoughts that sizing the head and skirt to be the same size is not as accurate because the skirt won’t seal as well. I haven’t noticed an accuracy difference between pellets I’ve sized versus pellets I sorted to the same head size. One reason I’m not sizing pellets right now is that I was looking for the best head size for my rifle. Now that I found it, I could size pellets rather than sort but I can’t find pellets larger than 4.53mm that would enable me to size them down.
      You might look at the PelletgageR that lets you sort about 50 pellets at a time. I use them to mass sort my pellets to one specific size.
      I have also weighed pellets in the past. I couldn’t determine a difference in accuracy with pellets of 0.1 grain delta weights. So I quit sorting. Sorting pellets for consistent and specific head sizes has resulted in the greatest improvement in accuracy for me.

      • Cloud 9,

        Thank you for the reply. I do not compete, so any sorting is to satisfy my own curiosity. I can not say that I have seen a difference, but then I do not shoot a whole bunch either. If I ever did (think) I saw a difference and was maybe “on to something”,… I could not get it to repeat reliably. 🙁

        Maybe there would be a market for oversized pellets,… for people that do use dies?

        I remember looking at dies awhile back (several years ago) and there was one that did not affect the skirt size. Some were adjustable too as I recall.

        The straight from the can,… into the mass sort PelletgageR (of only one size) seems like the best way to go for a pro like yourself. It is too bad when you can (not) rely on can sizes,… especially when they carry their claim to the second place. ( 00.XX)

        Thanks again,….. Chris

  17. Here is the moment everybody has been waiting for, well at least a couple of you. I took my new Maximus out to mu new shooting bench today.

    One of my first impressions was of course the loading port. Like so many, I think it needs to be a little bigger. After a bit I became used to it, but I am going to enlarge it some. That will be one of the projects of the near future.

    The next issue is the actual loading of the pellet in the breech. Every time there seemed to be a catch. Later I looked in the breech with a bright light and I could see where the barrel was bored a wee bit smaller than the block, making a sharp lip for stuff to catch on. It also looked like the transfer port might stand a little polishing itself.

    Now, for the trigger. It is bad. Real bad. Well, the truth is I am really pretty spoiled. It has a very stiff pull and there is a little creepy catch to it before it fires, but I can use it. That though is likely to be the very first modification I do to this thing.

    Now, as for the bark. It might be a little loud for a little back yard, but where I am I am not going to be in a big rush to buy a silencer. I am not sure, but it may be quieter than my HM1000X.

    I considered trying out the glowy thingy sights. Seriously? No, seriously? They have to come off. I may replace them with some real open sights, but they have to go.

    Overall, I have to say I am really liking this little air rifle. With a little work, this could easily become my favorite PCP. I have my little Hawke mounted on top of it and a Chinese copy of an Atlas bipod. This thing is a rock solid little shooter. I would still be out there shooting it, but it started sleeting.

      • Chris,

        No, I have not. I will work on getting that stuff real soon though. That and the lead in.

        I may end up getting me one of those adapters so I can put an air stripper on this bugga.

    • RR
      What pellets have tryed? You getting decent groups?

      And you know a gen1 Marauder rifle trigger assembly will work on the Maximus and Discovery. Some people said that a spacer type adapter was needed to makeup for the tube diameters being different. I didn’t use any adapter. I bolted it right on. And you will have to make a different trigger gaurd if you want it to have one. I did for mine when I had it.

      • GF1,

        In order of accuracy at 25 yards, JSB 15.89, JSB 18.81, JSB Hades, Baracuda. It did not seem to like the Baracuda at all.

        I know all about the Marauder trigger mod. Lloyd used to make the adapter plates. He also created the Disco Double, the MRod Double and the PRod Double. I have considered the MRod trigger mod, but do not want to go there at the moment. If I am not mistaken, the Challenger trigger is a better fit. It may not be as adjustable as the MRod, I do not know, but I am sure it is much better than this one. I prefer to see what I can do with this one first. I was able to make that Edge trigger real nice. 😉

        A priority I have is getting that barrel out of there and reaming the breech a bit. That could easily cause some accuracy issues and it is definitely causing some loading issues. I may look at enlarging the loading port at that time.

        • RR
          I got ahold of Lloyd and talked with him about a double tube Marauder. He wasn’t making them yet for the Marauder rifles. I had the first one made. He sent me the parts and I put it together. And another gun I shouldn’t of let get away.

        • RR,

          The two 4-40 screws, a spring swap/clip and bending the V spring a bit will do miracles. I would give that a go first. I think I also moved the spring from besides the trigger,… to behind it. It went over the added trigger stop screw (as best I recall).

          Chris

          • Chris,

            That is the most likely way I will go with the trigger mod. If I go the route of swapping out the trigger, I will add a shoe. Do you remember how long those screws were?

            • RR,

              I want to say 5/8″ with a small Phillips head,… but not sure. The holes were already there and were the perfect size to “tap” right in. Maybe have it down first and take a look before you shop,… or get longer and cut.

              Do you have a hardware store close that has all of those little bins of anything you could ever want? The Mom and Pops would be the best. The big box stores have similar,… but no where to the same extent.

              For the spring, I think I used a ball point pen spring,… and moved it like I said. Not sure if I clipped it. It is only for the fake first stage trigger pull pressure.

              On the V spring,… it holds up the sear. I bent it inward to reduce tension. Too much and it won’t latch or will be too light. I have the before and after angle info.. It looks like 130* might have been the start. 121* was too light. It looks like I went with 124*. I traced it on paper and used a protractor to measure.

              Let me know if you have anymore questions.

              Chris

                • RR,

                  Looking at notes,…. looks like I had around 5 1/2# – 6# avg. on pull weight to start. Final looks to be 13 oz. avg.. Works for me.

                  Chris

                  Edit: 2# 13oz. avg. final. The 13 oz. was the “too light” tweak I do believe.

                  • Chris,

                    Does not sound too light to me, unless you cannot distinguish when you encounter the sear or it will not pass the bump test.

                    Maybe I am wrong, but I would say this is a two stage trigger as the trigger itself is not the sear. Most of the old gals hanging around here are direct sear. I am just thankful that TCFKAC did not change the trigger assembly casing mold. This trigger was initially designed to be adjusted. I guess legal freaked out and they no longer put in the adjustment screws and use heavier springs.

                    Like BB was saying about the new syn stock on that 397, it takes thousands to pay for itself. Folks will just have to scope the dudely things if they want to use it. Oh I forgot. Them folks sell scopes and the special mounts you need for them. How silly of me. It is a marketeer thing.

                    You remember that hammer spring adjuster I was talking about? Archer Airguns has them for sixteen dollars.

                    Wow! Something else I just noticed. You have a trigger pull gauge. I feel like a Neanderthal. 😉

                    • RR,

                      I do. A Lyman digital.

                      1 or 2?,… not sure. The initial pull does nothing to move anything.

                      The further you pull,… the parts within the trigger start to move (levers, etc.).

                      As I recall, the sear is not contacted at rest or cocked. The V spring holds it up. As the trigger advances, the sear gets contacted and tipped to where the engagement begins to lessen, until it releases and fires.

                      As I recall,… the upper screw you will add, will move this entire linkage set up to full contact with the sear. Screwing it in further makes the sear engage/overlap less,.. all of the linkage has already been advanced and when you pull through,.. you are only doing is the final sear break and not having to move everything else first to get there.

                      It will all be clear once you open it up. Very easy to work on and pretty obvious what does what. They should all be so easy.

                      As I recall,.. there is plastic to plastic, plastic to metal and metal to metal,…. so proper lube type at each point would be desirable.

                      The only other thing I can think of is adding small shims over the pins to take up any side to side play of the parts moving on the pins. I did not do that. Not sure if it even needs it, but most likely does.

                      Move to bottom to reply if we are out of room.

                      Chris

                  • RR,

                    On the pull weight,… the ball point pen spring add essentially is a non-issue. The original however is. If you note the angle specs. I gave,.. it does not take much bending if the V spring to make much of a difference. If you do not count the pen spring (I would not),.. you are puling against the V spring and whatever pressure the hammer spring is applying to the sear.

                    On bending the V spring,.. I left both arms straight. The bending was done by over rotating the spring and holding it close to the loop. So in the end, it was just a wider V or a narrower V (narrower in this case). That is why measuring with a protractor was important,… so that you have quantitative data to work with/from.

                    Chris

                    • Chris
                      Going to post a reply in a minute.

                      Check it out.

                      Wish BB was doing his normal reports because this is something that should be noted on a report.

  20. B.B.

    When I saw this I thought this should be the basis for a 5 part blog. Boy do I wish I were 8 again. This is what I would want Santa to bring me.

    https://www.cnet.com/news/nerfs-rival-curve-shot-lets-you-blast-around-corners/

    They say Henry Aaron practiced hitting as a kid, by hitting pitched opened bottle caps with a broomstick. RIP Hammer.

    B.B.

    I sure hope you have your history and reference links on the Cloud. I could see that and logon procedures vanishing in a big SNAFU. Sure hope not.

    Stay safe,

    -Yogi

    • Yogi,

      The Nerf RIVAL models don’t have counters!
      When my kids were young we had four Nerf Ballzookas and had lots of spare ammunition cashed around the house. We would have regular 15 minute combat periods as rewards/celebrations when someone did a good deed or other positive behavior. It was a fantastic motivation tool to get both parents and kids to grow better together. This looks like an opportunity for families stuck dealing with the COVID19 Mess!
      I think I see a purchase of four for my son’s family!

      As far as the potential for the Blog SNAFU after the IT folks get done…they sent out an Email about BIG THINGS Coming SOON!
      IT Departments that advertise are typically a joke! I hope they at least get the Blog changeover rolled out without long lasting issues! But tooting your own horn in advance is not a style i believe in.

      shootski

  21. Chris
    From above.

    Remember when you said you had your spring pressure adjustment for the striker/hammer change on your Marauder.

    Well it gradually came undone for my SAM. I had this happen the other day and I wanted to make sure I had all my ducks in a row before I posted the results.

    My SAM started to not cycle. It started to do that low pressure fart sound when it fired. Then finally the bolt wouldn’t retract to set the bolt for the next firing action.

    Guess what. My striker spring adjustment backed off. It was at 3 turns from home. Now it’s at 1-1/2 turns.

    This is what I decided to do. And I believe I made the right choice. I’m getting even better groups now to. So it must of made the gun more consistent.

    I adjusted the striker spring adjustment which uses the 1/4 inch Allen wrench

    Remember when BB said that he adjusted all the way in and it just kept turning and nothing happened.

    Welli I know why and it’s why I decided to adjust the way I did. The screw can’t back off because it doesn’t engage the threads anymore. It just keeps spinning. So it stays and basically can’t move.

    Now that adjustment can’t change. It can’t back off and it for sure can’t increase.

    So thats how my SAM is adjusted now. And yes I like the extra power now too.

    • RR,

      I was shown the new blog and website format today. It will be different, but after getting used to it I think it will be better.

      Of course we do have to get used to it. Things will be in different places, but I didn’t see anything that wasn’t done with a lot of thought. Of course there are bound to be issues when something this big is done. but I have high hopes for the blog. So far it looks like I will be able to post on Friday, if all goes as it should.

      BB

      • BB,

        I do hope that things do not get “lost in the fog”. The archives are a most valuable asset to your writings. Being able to drink from the well of your experience with various airguns, etc., plus being able to “speak” with others of like, but varied interests and experiences, sharing of our knowledge is such an enrichment to all.

        I have learned much here. It is my hope that this continues to move forward.

        • GF1,

          It won’t be crazy, but there will be some differences that we will have to get used to. For one thing, the blog will now look like it’s a part of the Pyramyd AIR website. You might be surprised at the emails I get offline asking where the items I write about can be bought. Many who visit the blog for the first time aren’t aware it belongs to Pyramyd AIR.

          The changes will mean there will be new ways to navigate the blog and the website. They are better-optimized for those who view on their smart phones, without loosing the look when you are on a desktop computer.

          BB

          • BB
            Just have to wait and see I guess.

            I get use to something then it changes then you have to learn the new set up which usually means more time spent to get the results that you use to.

            It probably won’t be frustrating for too long. Just another thing to learn.

            Bought a used 2010 Camaro last week for my wife. Still got to check the heater control and all that when I drive it. And the radio and all that stuff. Heck we couldn’t find the gas door release. Then found all you do is push it then it pops open.

            Anyway just a example of change.

            • GF1,

              Well said!

              When I was shown the new blog setup and the new website yesterday I had the same apprehensions as you. But all that I saw told me they really gave this new look a lot of thought. So, yes, we got some learnin’ to do, but it shouldn’t be that bad.

              BB

              • BB
                I know we will be ok. And I imagine its probably long overdue.

                I have read and ordered off of PA for probably 11 years now and can’t remember them changing the site around.

                Maybe they did at some point in time and I don’t remember. If that’s the case then it was probably a smooth change.

                Hoping for the same this time. I’m sure it will.

      • B.B.,

        Ragerding “Getting used to.” When I made even minor changes to a screen or a menu appearance, there was a lot of unhappiness from the troops. We are on AutoPilot for many of the routine keystroke tasks, reading, posting, etc. It’s when those keystrokes aren’t producing the expected response that we stop and look at where in the screen/process we are and how we got there.

        Usually I made changes when the State Agency added or changed reporting requirements or Accounting needed to gather more data or needed a new report. I don’t ever recall just looking at a stable screen/process and making a change because I wanted to make a change. If it isn’t broke, don’t fix it.

        I’m sure that there is a need for a blog update that is driven by some technology or environment change that we can’t see. IT usually has enough of a backlog that they don’t start looking for things to change.

        None of this is criticism of change in the blog, just expecting that there will be discontent among users until our muscle memory adapts. Then all will be well until the next change at which time people will be wishing for the previous that worked so well.

        Dan

    • RidgeRunner,

      I can hear you halfway around the world! I’m just glad that the messages are still getting through. Just another 48 hours before the new blog is live and Tom is posting again.

      Siraniko

  23. Hello,

    My neighbor is willing to part with a Weihrauch target dipter sight (as found in the HW 55) as long as I can find a Rekord trigger unit that will fit a HW 50S from the late 1960’s. The problem with his Rekord is that the first stage tab is broken off and although the trigger unit is able to be cocked, the trigger is floppy.

    (The unit on the right is from my R7 and on the left is from my neighbor’s HW 50S).

  24. Alex2no,

    You can get parts for the Rekord or even a complete Rekord Trigger Unit from Airgun Spares. Before you start buying parts or a trigger unit to complete your “trade” make sure that the Weihrauch Diopter fits your gun. If the Weihrauch Diopter is coming from a late 60’s gun it might be 13mm. Your gun probably needs an 11mm Weihrauch Diopter (Weihrauch made both sizes). Here’s a link to airgun spares:

    https://www.airgunspares.com/gunspares/airgun-spares/weihrauch/rekord-trigger-unit.html

  25. I have contacted Chambers in the UK but they are not sure what part I should order.

    TGR013 is the complete trigger unit listed for the HW 50S, HW30S and HW 55. Does sell for £97

    BK152 is the trigger housing for a HW55, HW50S and HW30S and sells for £18.

    All the parts on my neighbor’s Rekord seem to be there ( as I am able to cock it when the trigger is out of the action).

    I believe I can take his Rekord appart and assemble it back together using a new trigger housing. I just am not sure wich part to order. Looking at the parts diagram, the trigger unit and the trigger housing has a small vertical cut near the top right corner ( like my Beeman R7 pre safety) which my neighbor’s Record does not have. In addition, the piston sear lever is made up of three pieces instead of one solid unit.
    The sear engagement screw is a flat head and not a Torx.

    Need advice in ordering the right part.

    As I go over the trigger unit, I can tell that the both the sear engagement and trigger pull screws are way off of adjustment. The first stage stop tap is broken off.

  26. Another view of the trigger being able to move forwads because is missing the first stage tab.
    When holding the rifle and shaking it, the trigger just bounces and swings around with no resistance.

    • Alex2no,

      When the gun is cocked the trigger blade goes floppy without tension – common causes, there’s not enough tension in the trigger pull weight spring so turn the screw clockwise to increase the pressure. Other causes can be the spring has lost its tension, wear on the sears, dirt or hardened grease in the mechanism.

      There are lots of youtube videos on cleaning, adjusting, etc. a rekord trigger.

      • kevin

        That tab on the assembly sets the forward position of the trigger. It looks like someone attempted to adjust this by bending the tab. The result did not turn out so well (broken tab).

        tt

        • TT
          Off subject. But do you still have your new body style Camaro? I remember you said it had the V6 in it and it would probably beat your late model body style Mustang you had.

          Well I just bought a orange with black stripe RS and same color leather interior with that engine and the paddle shifters on the steering wheel. It’s got launch control too which I didn’t think was available on the V6 cars.

          Yep it does run for a V6. It’s 300+ horsepower.

          My buddy has worked at the local chevy dealer since we got out of high school in the service department. He called me last week because he knew I was looking for something for my wife. It’s super clean and a 1 owner car and only 75,000 miles on it. The guy that owned it was 70 years old and traded it in for a new SS Camaro. We got it for $6000 too. I think it was a good deal anyway.

          • GF

            Still have mine. 323 horse.
            Mine is twitchy enough in drive, but manual (sport) gets even worse. Quick to respond. A lot of times it starts in second gear. Much smoother take off. A take off from low gear will surprise you. Particularly if you jab the gas.
            If you move the gas pedal a little to far or too fast, it downshifts to get the rpm over 3000. It can be a bit annoying. It will drop back again if you don’t mash down the rest of the way. Redline at 7k. It will shift there if you are to the floor.
            Not sure anyone ever gets used to it. The stang was the 440 horse GT, but a slow responder.

            tt

            • TT
              I haven’t drove it enough to know it yet but is fun to drive. It does remind me of the 69 Camaro I drove a couple times back in the late 70’s that my buddy had.

              And ok didn’t remember what your Mustang was.

              And I thought the Camaro had 19’s on it but it has 275/40/20’s on it. I don’t even want to think about how much it’s going to cost me to put tires on it when the time comes. It’s got the BF Goodrich g force radials on it. They even look to be about 70% so happy about that. And guess what we have about 2 inches of snow on the ground right now and it’s suppose to go for 4 more hours. The wife drove the front wheel drive car to work today with the mountain rated tires on it. Not even going to think about getting the Camaro out in this stuff.

              Oh and still got the push rod 5.0 95 Mustang. Put antique plates and insurance on it. It’s getting the bottle and drag tires in the spring. Going to start running it at the track this year. Kind of excited about that.

              • GF

                The tires on my car have a M/S rating on them. Some of the camaros and Vettes have racing tires with very few and very small tread grooves. I would not want to drive on tires like that if the road was going to have any kind of moisture on it. I need a all season tire, not a dry road tire.

                tt

                • TT
                  The ones on the Camaro have a V pattern. Probably good on rain but that’s about it.

                  And the ones on the other car are mountain rated. They are good for snow, rain, mud and even ice. They work.

                  • GF

                    Never saw a tread pattern like that before.
                    Had some AT pattern tires on my old van for a while. Almost as good as the old snow tires, but noisy and did not last too well compared to regular tires.
                    tt

                    • TT
                      These are actually harder than the Federal mountains I tried before. You don’t get the vehicle wiggle with the Presa. And they last longer.

                      I like them. Good luck so far with them. Actually got a set on the Mustang right now and it did pretty good in about a inch of snow on the road last week. They are actually the same size as the front wheel drive car. They are coming off the Mustang in the spring when I put the drag tires on the Mustang for when I start dragging it at the strip. They will be used on the front wheel drive car when it’s Presa’s wear out.

    • Alex2no,

      Apologies. Twotalon made clear my oversight. I missed your reference to the “missing first stage tab”. This is commonly referred to as the down-stand or front tab on the cassette. No easy way to weld or solder a tab back in place so you will probably have to buy a new Weihrauch Trigger Housing (part 9181). See here:

      https://www.airgunspares.com/9181-weihrauch-trigger-housing.html

      Here’s a good tutorial:

      http://www.airguns.net/general_rekord_trigger.php

  27. I was talking to his wife and she tells me that old rifle has been in the garage for who knows how long. She likes my patio set which I never really use and I think I can make a trade somehow.

    ” Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive!”

    Kevin thanks,

    I have a 13mm Wlliams sight with target knobs from the ARH days. Have been looking for a rifle to attach it to. That rifle is only a few doors down.

  29. Well I just got a email from AGD that said this.

    “Last Wednesday, Rep. Justin Humphre introduced House Bill 1648, urging the Oklahoma Wildlife Conservation Commission (OWCC) to establish a “bigfoot hunting season”.

    It is only a matter of time before this legislation spreads like wildfire across the country! Know what that means?
    Time to air up those Big Bores!”

    I bet this word gets out and there is going to be a lot less Bigfoot sightings.

    Ask me. Do I believe there is a Bigfoot out there. Well we shall see won’t we.

      • Shootski,

        Maybe not a good idea. 85% + guys on those Big Foot TV shows (look like) a Big Foot! And,… more than a few look like they are a few fries short of happy meal to boot. Heck,… they will be taking pot shots at each other.

        Chris

        • ChrisUSA,

          Ghillie Suit and good stalking skills are all you need along with a modicum of skill. The BigFoot ecology is very predictable. The .308 133gn @920+FPS MV with DonnyFL Emperor v3 and 6.26″ extender and the won’t see or hear what hit them BigFoots! LOL!

          shootski

          • Shootski,

            I quit watching (the few times that I did) when they baited the Big Foot “trap” with jelly donuts and fried up bacon. No doubt that in the morning,.. when they came up empty handed,.. they had their breakfast already fixed. 😉

            Chris

      • Shootski
        What I’m thinking is there will be less Bigfoot sightings because now the people out there running around in Bigfoot suites will be afraid they might get shot now.

        I guess that’s a way to end a myth. Well unless Bigfoot’s actually do exist. 😉

    • GF1,

      The Bigfoot license is for catch and release??? it does not say what kind of trap is allowed so be careful tromping around in the woods of Oklahoma. Being I am half Okie and half Hillbilly you really don’t want me coming up with Bigfoot traps and setting them along the trails. How big does the foot have to be to be considered a big foot? A bounty on those over size 13 may be in order.

      Dod

    • Poor Bigfoot…FM can think of more necessary hunting seasons to be implemented nationwide, mostly involving 2-legged critters generally wearing suits, grinning diabolically as they Doublespeak at you from both sides of their mouth. FM must do a better job of quashing evil thoughts lest his Catholic school teacher, Sister Mary Joseph come back from Beyond and twist his ears off, which she could do with great skill.

      • FM,

        I would agree. Yup,.. keeps those thoughts in check as they can lead to a slippery slope. It is what is now (at least for the moment) and just watching it all unfold daily. Can’t say I like what I am seeing one bit.

        Chris

      • Fawlty
        I know exactly what you mean.

        And I really hated when they slapped the wood ruller across your knuckles with great precision. Not one knuckle but 4 of them everytime. They had to set and practice or something at lunch time. They was just way to accurate and done it in a blink of a eye.

        • GF1

          My 3rd grade terrorist teacher used a 3 sided ruler to slap the palm while holding back the fingers. If anybody acted up she worked over the whole class except 2 teacher pets. For switching she made you go get one and if insufficient you got extra lashes.

          Well at least we had a form of discipline.

          Deck

          • Deck
            And you was getting taught about the real world and you didn’t even know it.

            TEACHERS PETS

            That always seems to happen doesn’t it.

            That’s one thing I have never been able to be. It just ain’t me.

  30. Shootski,

    I received my tuned AV 46M last weekend while I was up plowing snow at the cabin. I have not got a chance to shoot it yet but a manuel was included so they are available.

    Don

    • Benji-Don,

      Thank you!
      I will give them a call; I hope I don’t need to end my pistol back to get the hard copy Manual. Did they return the same serial number?

      I still have not hd an issue just as B.B. has reported about his. I’ll be interested in what you think they did to the performance level on your pistol and hope it will not leave pellets sitting in the bore ever again.

      shootski

      • Shootski,

        I do not know for sure what they did. I figure it was to adjust (reduce) the head space on the pump piston. Below is my velocity test of the returned pistol.

        The returned pistol is serial number 000073. I think it is the same I wrote it down somewhere if I can find it.

        Don

        P.S. I found a picture it is the same serial number. I think it is time for a refreshment.

  31. Folks,

    Today I played some Hank Williams SR. tunes and tested my AV-46M after it came back from Air Venturi to see how it did. I am happy to say that the velocity is now basically identical to my Baikal MP-46. Yippie! I have been calling my Baikal an IZH-46M but it is the renamed later version MP-46M. Same gun as far as I know unless the pump handle change happened at the same time as the name change.

    Here are the velocities of my IZH/MP-46M:

    AA Falcon 7.33 gr. pellets
    Shot Velocity
    # fps

    1 490
    2 487
    3 488
    4 486
    5 484
    Average 487 fps Spread 6 fps

    Here are the velocities of my AV-46M before it was sent to AV to be tuned:

    AA Falcon 7.33 gr. pellets
    Shot Velocity
    # fps

    1 393
    2 390
    3 396
    4 392
    5 396
    Average 393 fps Spread 6 fps

    Here are the velocities of my AV-46M after it was sent to AV to be tuned:

    AA Falcon 7.33 gr. pellets
    Shot Velocity
    # fps

    1 487
    2 489
    3 490
    4 487
    5 484
    Average 487 fps Spread 6 fps

    I guess an accuracy test between the two pistols would be next if I can find someone to shoot both pistols well enough to compare the two.

    I also noted that the champher on the end of my AV-46M crown is much larger than that on my MP-46M.
    The OD of the AV-46M is 0.245 inches.
    The OD of the BM-46M is 0.307 inches.

    I think someone may have recrowned my MP-46M before I got it. Does anyone else have a IZH/BM-46M with the larger crown? Here is a picture showing the two crowns the BM-46M is on the left.

    Don

    • I was looking at the two crowns and wondering which one would have better intermediate/transitional ballistics. They both have about the same chamfer length. The IZH chamfer is about 30 to 35 degrees and the AV chamfer is about 5 to 10 degrees. The AV chamfer seems to be a long transition to me where there will be air flowing around the pellet after the rifling at a higher velocity for a longer period of time. That gives the high pressure air (more force air) longer to act on the pellet.

      I guess there could be a whole study on the crown shape and the pressure remaining as the pellet leaves the barrel. Comparing the remaining pressure as the pellet leaves the barrel with crown geometry would be interesting.

      Don

      • Benji-Don,

        Thanks for all that sharing of information.
        I really enjoy CROWN discussions. Don you probably have figured out by now that I think shooter skills training is number one in my book. Rifles and handguns that are properly setup are needed for accuracy. Triggers are to be learned as long as the are consistent and not at either end of the extremes of pull force. Finally we need to be concerned with reading the wind/air currents to the best of our ability. Once all that is accomplished we can all shoot crowns like this guy manufactured:
        https://rifleshooter.com/2018/03/do-rifle-crowns-matter-does-a-crown-effect-accuracy/
        If I have a choice a nice 11° target crown is my go to but almost anything that isn’t damaged all to much to hinder consistency seems to be all that matters. I found the one asymmetric cut interesting in that it could solve having run out of sight system adjustment travel. LOL!

        shootski

        • Yep I think both crowns on my pistols are fine. More just curious as to the difference.

          On many of the cheaper pellet gun crowns there is a ridge at the end of the rifling. I think from dull machines removing the ridge seems to make a significant difference. Or am I just a tinkerer by heart. It is easy to feel when pushing a pellet through the barrel.

          Don

          • Benji-Don,

            I think you are right to check. I use a Q-Tip to look for lips, RidgeRunner, burrs, and flash. After a light cleaning and a look with a Borescope i always Slug (made of deadsoft Lead wire length) the barrel to get the actual dimension and see how/if the Slug gets cut cleanly by the grooves/lands and hopefully shows no damage caused by any imperfections in the bore.

            Is that the first step down the path to tinkering?
            Yup!

            shootski

            • Shootski,

              I like the Q-Tip check. As for slugging the Maximus barrel, I would like to do that, but first I am going to have to chamfer the breech some and I may need to deburr the transfer port. When I load, I feel a double catch. I shined a light in the breech and I can see the lip of the barrel where it meets the action and I think I see a bit of lead on the edge of the port.

              I would really like to slug the barrel as I have been considering shooting cast bullets with it and it would be nice to know the proper caliber.

              • RidgeRunner,

                You may want to angle that TP. That way you get the benefit of a chamfer and the smoother gas flow toward the muzzle. When I increase the size of a TP i see if the angled approach will give me the sightly longer but no wider hole in the bore wall that keeps pellets/bullets from “falling” into the hole. The downside is that you need to do the Math for oval area and ensure the bolt/bolt probe pushes the round past the TP completely.

                shootski

                • Shootski,

                  Angling would be great, but at this point I am more concerned with burrs than flow. After a bit I will be more interested in the finer points. It is my intention to slowly bring this air rifle along, explaining each small step along the way.

  33. BB
    I see the new PA site is up and running.

    It’s different but still easy to use.

    Will you have a Friday blog this week?

    Just checked my links I got saved for products on the PA site and they still work. So I’m happy about that too.

  34. I want to thank everyone for your postings here. By reading through them some, I have learned a little more. Though not as good as the blog, it does help to take the edge off so that I do not hurt anyone. I appreciate all you people have done to help me through this.

    NOW, THEY HAD BETTER HAVE THE BLOG UP AND RUNNING TOMORROW!!!!

  35. Everyone,

    I wanna show you a neat new feature of the Pyramyd AIR home page. Go there and scroll to the bottom where a portion of the site map is listed. On the right colum under Confident Shopping click on Resources at the bottom and see where that takes you! Many of the resources that were scattered around on the old website have been consolidated into a new page of links.

    BB

    • And if they can improve the state of their inventory, it will be even better, B.B. – granted, everybody is in the same lifeboat. Let’s count our blessings instead of our troubles. Looking forward to the return of the blog and continuing the learning experience thanks to you and all others who contribute.

      • Basil,

        Inventory is still a problem for them. Companies in the UIS like AirForce are running wide open to keep up with demand. Companies that rely on products from China are hamstrung by the long shipping times and the additional production and customs times. European products are now just as slow for the same reasons.

        Believe me — Pyramyd AIR wishes they had more inventory to sell, because sales are white hot right now. The firearm ammo shortage has put a huge strain on quality pellet guns.

        BB

    • B.B.,

      I followed your directions. Once I clicked on RESOURCES the next page gave me multiple options. I clicked on AIRGUN GUIDE. The next page horrified me. One of the options was YOUNG TEEN (or WHOLE FAMILY AIRGUN) and showed a picture of a pre-teen girl loading a break barrel springer without holding onto the barrel. Shame on PA:

      /

  36. All,

    I like the new type size and contrast. It makes reading much easier for old eyes. Big, clear photos too. Altogether a much improved appearance.

    Well done, IT folk!

    Dan

  37. BB, I have enjoyed my PCP’s lately, I am impressed by Cloud 9’s 12ft/lbs rig. To properly range the .177 to 60yds with a scope, I need about 7x per 10 yards of range. The field of view must be very narrow at high power at 55 yds.
    I can only afford about 7x at 15yds! The Umarex Synergis got a tear down, cleaning. Good thing too. The slotted end of the cocking link broke it’s toe. It was bent up high, kept falling out of its slot in the compression chamber. So, that is how my $160 dollar airrifle died. I will attempt a weld repair, heat treat, normalize, regrind the slot. Or, just accept it was too hard to cock it for me in the first place. A inexpensive part may be available for allot less trouble, but, I doubt it. Somewhere.
    I am not going to say an A.A. or an HW never broke before, but I know I can get parts for that level of quality.
    Lesson learned.
    The site looks cleaner, and easier to navagate, awesome!
    R

  39. Am I the only one that misses the PA little catalogs they used to mail out? I finally threw my last one away. I know with sales being so hot they don’t need to mess with it, but it was sure nice to pull out and look at.

    Doc

    • Doc,

      I got one a couple of months ago. Vol. 17. It had been awhile and I wondered too. I have not ordered anything for a couple of years I’ll bet. Like you,.. I enjoy them and hope they keep sending them.

      Chris

      • BB,

        I think it would be a good idea to date the catalogs. A quick look showed no dating other than when the discount code (on the back) expired. You use old catalogs to date when something was in circulation. I save mine for that reason. Sure, they are not all inclusive,… but they do date when a product was being offered.

        Maybe “Spring 2021” and “Fall 2021”???,…. as an example.

        Chris

  40. For all of you who have an interest in the Benjamin Maximus, I would strongly suggest that you get your hands on one now. There are a few at various dealers, but it is looking like if you want one in the near future you will have to special order it. It is beginning to look like the Maximus is going the way of the Discovery.

    By the way, if you do not have a Discovery or Maximus, you are missing out big time.

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