Dragonfly Mark 2.
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
This report covers:
- The test
- How NOT loud the rifle is
- Sight-in
- First up — JSB Exact Jumbo Heavy
- Air Arms 18-grain dome
- H&N Baracuda Match 5.51mm head
- HOWEVER
- What’s next?
- Discussion
- Summary
Oh, boy! Here we go! Today we look at the accuracy of the Seneca Dragonfly Mark 2 multi-pump rifle when shooting with a red dot sight and no front barrel support. Lotsa folks weighed in on this one, and today we all see how it went.
The test
I shot from 10 meters with the rifle resting directly on a sandbag. All the groups were five shots except for the final one. I pumped the rifle four times for every shot. I used the pellets that have performed the best in the two past accuracy tests that are documented in Parts 3 and 4.
I was very curious myself because I remember thinking how that large front bead got in the way of everything and made it nearly impossible to get an accurate sight picture. I figured the dot would give me a much tighter aim point, and it did. I will cover that in a moment, but first I have a request to address.
How NOT loud the rifle is
My cat, Dale Evans, usually complains every time I shoot. For this test she lay asleep on the sofa, ten feet from the muzzle. Then she got up and laid down at my feet. Not so much as a peep! On four pumps the Dragonfly Mark 2 is quiet.
Dale lay at my feet and then went to sleep as I tested.
Sight-in
Because of mounting the dot sight yesterday, I started sighting-in from 10 feet. The first pellet hit the bullseye. I backed up to 5 meters and the pellet hit about 1.5-inches above the bull. When a second pellet went through the same hole I adjusted the sight down several clicks and the next pellet was a 10. That was good enough to back up to 10 meters and try another shot. It hit a little high but inside the black, so I switched targets and shot a group.
I had the red dot set as bright as it would go and it was somewhat imprecise. So after a somewhat mediocre 5-shot group I put another target on the box and dimmed the dot several clicks. I also adjusted the dot down another three clicks because with a dot sight it doesn’t matter if you hit the center of the bull. I was ready to shoot for the record.
First up — JSB Exact Jumbo Heavy
Remember, I’m testing a .22. And the JSB Exact Jumbo Heavy has done well in other tests. The first shot was a ten (a pinwheel — dead center in the bullseye) and I didn’t look at the next 4. When I finished five pellets had gone into a group that measures 0.078-inches between centers. Folks — that’s 10-meter target rifle territory! It earned the coveted Chuckram comparison coin for groups smaller than one-tenth-inch.
Five JSB Exact Jumbo Heavy pellets made this 0.078-inch group at 10 meters.
Well, does that satisfy everyone that the free-floated barrel is accurate? I hope so because that is the best group of this test!
The dot is now so small that I can center it inside the 10-meter bull. Aiming is very precise.
Air Arms 18-grain dome
Next up was the 18-grain dome from Air Arms that is essentially the exact same pellet as the JSB I just tested. Only this pellet landed lower on the bull and more to the left. Five shots went into a 0.224-inch group at 10 meters.
The Dragonfly Mark 2 put five Air Arms 18-grain domes into 0.224-inches at 10 meters.
H&N Baracuda Match 5.51mm head
Next to be tried were five H&N Baracuda Match pellets with 5.51mm heads. In Part 4 they made a phenomenal 0.585-inch group at 25 yards. In today’s test the Dragonfly put five into a 0.289-inch group.
These pellets hit above the center of the bull and also a little to the left of center. They weigh more than the previous two pellets, and that explains the group shift. And, there is a “however.”
Five H&N Baracuda Match with 5.51mm heads went into 0.228-inches at 10 meters.
HOWEVER
At this time in the test the trigger stopped firing the rifle every time. I would pull and pull and nothing happened. I eventually discovered that if I wiggled the trigger blade back and forth the trigger would work, but I am quite sure I slightly threw several shots in this group because I was playing with the trigger.
What’s next?
I thought that since the JSB Exact Jumbo Heavys had done so well, I would shoot a 10-shot group. I hadn’t solved the trigger problem by this time, but I pushed on through and shot the group anyway.
Ten pellets went into 0.298-inches at 10 meters. I know the naysayers are going to point out that this group is lower and more to the left than the first group of five of the same pellet. Yes, it is. In fact throughout this test all the groups have been moving to the left.
The Dragonfly Mark 2 put 10 JSB Jumbo Heavy pellets into a 0.298-inch group at 10 meters.
Discussion
Do I even need to say it? Can you not all see that this Dragonfly Mark 2 is extremely accurate — especially for a multi-pump, because they are not known for their accuracy.
BUT — the trigger issue is a concern. Earlier in testing I said how much I liked the trigger pull. Now, I just want it to be consistent. I guess I need to look into this.
The free-floated barrel is no big deal in my opinion, but I will watch to see if the zero migrates as some have predicted.
I also have to observe that the UTG Micro Dot allows me to hold the rifle while I pump exactly where I did when the open sights were installed. Yes, the Dragonfly Mark 2 pumps easily, but it’s always nice to be able to hold it where you want and not be afraid of a scope.
Summary
In my opinion the Dragonfly Mark 2 has left all the multi-pumps I ever tested in the dust — except for my Sheridan Supergrade that equals it. But it’s not perfect yet. I think a 25-yard test is next with this dot sight, but first I have to see about that trigger. Will I mount a scope? Sure, but there is no rush.
Good results, except for the trigger thing?! But damn BB scope it already!
Edw,
I gotta fix that trigger first.
BB
Awesome groups. You mention your cat. Here’s our Stumpy. Took him in as a stray a few years ago. Taking a nap next to our granddaughter Robin.
birdmove,
When you took Stumpy in did you tell him that he just won the kitty lottery? 🙂
BB
We did! He was still a kitten, and, I assume, a dog had ripped most of his tail off. He turned out to be the best cat we’ve ever had, and we’ve had a number over the 50 plus years my wife and I have been together. Follows us around like a dog. He is enjoying his acre on the bug island. He wad born here. We brought one cat with us in 2011 when we moved here. She was quite old, and lived here for 7-8 years. Her name was Cranky.
I LOVE that pic! And it’s obvious that your granddaughter loves Stumpy; that’s awesome that you rescued him. 🙂
yes with a good trigger you could get much smaller groups lol
B.B.
Scoped, 25 yards, SIX to EIGHT pumps please.
After all this could be an ideal prep/survival gun.
Thanks in advance.
Bill,
The dot sight before the scope. Yes, 25 yards. And I will go up to more pumps.
BB
It seems some of the guys are quite interested in what it will do with a scope. I myself am more interested in what the trigger issue is. If’n it don’t work, it don’t matter how accurate it is.
+1, Got to find out what is with the trigger. Trigger problems=no fun!
-Y
Guys,
Yepper. The trigger is my number one concern at this point.
BB
Anybody have a schematic of the trigger? That might show what the “weak link” is.
-Y
Seriously.
R.R.
It goes without saying that if the trigger is an inherent problem the whole gun is out of question. We obviously hope it will work to proceed to the next test.
RidgeRunner,
Yes, that trigger issue is a concern; but I’m still leaving my order intact for now, as I have confidence that B.B. will get things sorted out; I’m really hoping it’s a burr on the sear, or some other simple issue such as that, and not a design issue with the trigger. #_#
Oh wait, forget I said that….I don’t want to jinx the B.B. repair. 🙂
Hoping all in well at RRHFWA,
dave
I have the previous version, and messed with the trigger, just smoothing it up. I don’t have and bad memories of it being hard to work on.
Excellent; thanks for that input. 🙂
Dave,
It should be a relatively easy fix. The trigger on this thing is not that complicated.
Cool; that’s good to know; thanks. 🙂
I am anxious about the trigger and hope BB can fix it. My rifle order is already in. Would be a bummer if trigger design issues cancels the remaining tests.
Accuracy with floating barrel may be no problem unless groups moving left are related. Good results so far but accuracy at 25 yards is the thing at least for my way of thinking.
Deck
BB,
Sure looks like the Dragonfly has potential!
That trigger issue sounds like a burr or something is interfering with the sear. Could be an alignment issue (loose/sloppy piviot pins letting parts flop around) so shimming or installing larger pin(s) might be needed.
I’ve found that scopes and pumpers, like oil and water don’t mix well. I went through all kinds of bother mounting a scope on my Crosman 101 and took it off after a day or two. It made pumping too awkward. Red-dots seem to be the best option, wish they were available way back then.
Interesting the way different pellets (repeatability) change the point of impact. Since the hardware, power and distance are the same there must be something subtly different that’s changing the harmonics. Just goes to show that you should confirm the POI whenever you change pellet brands. May seem a bit extreme but I check my zero each time I open a new tin of pellets.
Looking forward to the 25 yard test.
Hank
Hank,
Those are my thoughts as well. And I shudder when someone puts a scope on a multi-pump. But that’s what folks seem to want, so I will play along.
Yes, this rifle is a watershed!
BB
I prefer the peep sight myself. The dot is OK, I guess. Give me a good perlkorn and a peep.
Interesting that the JSB pellet had such different results than the similar AA. I have been looking for the best pellet for three of my .22’s, a Game Urban, an (one MOAat 30 yd) Avenger, and an impressive new Crosman 362. Close examination and gaging of the JSB Jumbo Heavy vs. The Air Arms Field Heavy prove (to me) they are not made with the same tooling, and have some notable differences.
https://www.facebook.com/pelletgage/
Jerry
My .22 Urban competes well at 25 yards with anything I own using AA 16 grain Diabolo Field. That includes my FWB300S. I may have an exceptional barrel on my Urban but others have been pleased with accuracy based on reports I’ve read.
Good shooting!
Deck
Thank you, Deck. I have not tried the AA 16. Will look for some. The Avenger is great with the JSB 18.1 Note, the link to the Pelletgage FB page has a detailed comparison between the JSB and AA 18.1 grain pellets. I feel certain those two will have different ballistics. I fear my Urban is just not as accurate as the Avenger, it patterns the 18.1 JSB as well as my brothers AA S410. The Crosman 362 is not scoped, but at close range I am very pleased with results using CPHP’s. Seems nearly as good as my Blue Streak.
Jerry
It is well documented that the Urban’s sweet spot starts at 2900 psi and hammer spring tension is adjustable. You already know this I’m thinking. I get 30 accurate shots at 25 yards on a fill.
The AA 16 grain pellet tins so far have rather consistent head diameters.
Good luck to you.
Deck
Floating barrel so far so good – just wait for 25yards or more.
There is always possible to get an “8” shape holder (printed 3D) at least. You can buy them for Stormrider (PR900W system) easily. This might be also the ultimate solution.
And of course the electric tape, WD40, butter and some wood will always do 🙂
About the trigger – perhaps because of Rekord trigger or Comet trigger which second stage is crisp as glasrod braking and predictable, I slowly dislake any other airguns having (sorry for this comparison 🙂 ) lady mood on the trigger all the time. Especially a PCP like potential for accuracy may be wasted because of the trigger issue. Benchrest shooting is not so critical, I mean a real free standing position.
Tomek
Excuse my ignorance but what do you mean by Comet trigger? Are you talking about the BSA Comet?
Bill – no there is no ignorance in your question, there is no full information in my post. Recently I bought Comet220 in .22 cal (in Germany it is called Tell220). After the zero check and the trigger adjustement it has a comparable or even better second stage then the rekord. It is a simple mechanism but may be adjusted well with some patience. So these two triggers are a bit my benchmark for the springers espacially. And this Tell220 is a very accurate springer with great, short shot cycle, no buzzling, nothing at all (after my tuning).
Now, this is really ignorance for me. I never realized that Tell airguns could be something to look for. I always thought that they were “poor relatives” when I saw them in German sites.
I am going to have a serious look at them now. And the original Cometa for sure.
Thanks for the information once again.
I have long desired a Tell 2 pistol, but they rarely show up in the U.S. They were made from 1925-1940.
Bill, I read also many different comments. In Germany Tell has a relative good opinion. Tell400 should be the best of the series and it is a full power springer with adjustable trigger which has the best opinion. I’m still considering it as a “HW80 alternative” – and often it is called like this in Germany. The price is very reasonable and price-performance ratio is top. To be honest Weihrauch is hard to top regarding general quality but the price of the Tell/Cometa is not so high. The construction is simple but in a good way simple – reliable and easy to tune. The barrel of the 220 is comparable to Weihrauch. Very accurate, good quality rifling, crowning and the input port is fine.
Actually 220 is very similar to HW50, I would say even the stock reminds me the old HW50. To be honest, my 220 as it is now after tuning has a smoother shot cycle than a standard HW50.
If I would decide again to buy and try I would get directly the Tell400.
Comet/Tell is made in Spain.
Update: out of the box Tell220 was dieseling (bad smell no smoke). I do the zero check anyway – in this case only the compression chamber was lubricated, the rest not… anyway – even Weihrauch should get the zero check, I learned again. I always compare my sprigners after my ZC and tuning. Testing and compare out of the box directly may get you a totally wrong impression.
Tomek
One more question about the Spanish Cometa and maybe Norica. Have you ever tried a gas/nitro piston model?
Bill: Overall I’m not enthusiastic about gasram. I wouldn’t change a well-tuned spring system for something that is better in theory but not in practice. I’d better try 3 different springs and choose the best one for the system.
I read a very good blog recently where some guy described the gas spring system you shoud avoid. There were not much left you shouldn’t 😀 So …
I never shoot the Norica airgun myself, unfortunately. Some models do have a good opinion but they are not very popular in Germany.
B.B.,
How old is Dale Evans? Our cats are 19 years old, and one of them is nearly deaf. The other is hard-of-hearing.
Regarding free-floating barrels you found that the most accurate Ruger 10/22 you ever shot was a completely stock, bottom-of-the-line one with no barrel band. It was more accurate than your totally tricked out one that had almost no original parts.
I preordered the Dragonfly MK 2 in both .177 and .22, but I’ve decided that if Air Venturi comes out with a .25 version, I’ll buy one of those, too (and in .30 as well). I sense there’s an excellent chance these air rifles will become sought-after classics like the Feinwerkbau 300s, Feinwerkbau 124, Crosman 600 and first generation IZH 60.
Consider that the Dragonfly MK 2 is all wood and metal, accurate, versatile, innovative and is heirloom quality. What else does it have to be to become a desired classic?
Michael
Michael,
Dale is turning 17 in a month.
BB
B.B.,
Cats are known to get progressively more hard-of-hearing as they age, and 17 is pretty old for a house cat. Has she been around loud sounds much? Just like with humans, they can suffer hearing loss from repeated and extended sounds over just 90 db.
Michael
Michael,
No. My house is pretty quiet except for when I test some airguns.
BB
She’s a cutie! :^)
BB
You know me. Waiting for the 25 yard test. That will start telling the story.
And yes please do the 25 yard test with the dot sight but also with a scope. I now do like a scope on a pumper as I have got older and the eyes don’t work quite as good as they use too.
And to me it sounds like a spring that holds the sear up has weakened prematurely and bent. Maybe even broke. But still wound together and is trying to work.
Will be waiting to see what you find and how the 25 yard accuracy test goes.
I got a Simmons 44mag 6×21 from Midway, parralaxs dwn to 10 yds, sidewheel focus, wire reticle, adj. objective lens, for about $160. Comes with a sunshade, but only weighs 14 oz. So, it’s a duplex style with mil dots, but I dont miss the weight of all the electronics. I hope His Nibs can fix the trigger, its not a Rekord, It should be ‘improvable’ if its like mine. I needed to cold set the welded trigger housing with pliers a few times. no wobble now, I think the pins should be a little bigger too.
Wow, .078″ , Nice shooting. Yes please on the 50 line, you will want to scope such an accurate rifle at that range, IMHO. What a great deal.
Rob
“Dale lay at my feet and then went to sleep as I tested.”
What a great pic; what a sweet kitty; “Yay, Dale Evans!” 🙂
thedavemyster, I second that!
B.B.
“the Dragonfly Mark 2 has left all the multi-pumps I ever tested in the dust — except for my Sheridan Supergrade that equals it.” The catch word is “ever”. You haven’t tested the Croman 362 yet (hint hint). Just hoping that day will come 🙂 Or maybe one of the readers here that has one would like to do a review?
Just me but the trigger problems could be a big issue for me. Most know how I feel about China. And you already having troubles with it makes it suspect for longevity. For me anyway. I don’t expect to buy something to have to work on it right away. Wood and Steel (my favorite by the way) doesn’t mean anything if it’s not reliable. Just me.
Doc
Doc,
I have a 362 sitting in my office, awaiting the start of a test. Next week.
BB
B.B.
Oh wow! So excited for that one. Who knows, maybe it isn’t as good at the Dragon. I guess we shall see. P.S., my wife will dislike you even more!
Doc
B.B.
Now you’re talking my kind of turkey! Hope the one you have is as accurate as the two I have.
14.3 JSB’s + 1X Leupold prismatic + 04 pumps = bottom of tin can accurate at 40yds. Every time you pull the trigger.
I will warn you that Dale Evans won’t stick around very long when you start pulling that trigger.
BobF
Looking forward to your C362 tests! I ordered one on a whim, and first shots out of the box with CPHP’s at 10 yds, I hit a one inch steel aperture 3X, standing! Then, moved to paper, 10 meters off a bipod, dead center bullseye on first shot. I am amazed at the accuracy and power of this little rifle. Doc, I would call the trigger OK – not really crisp, but not too heavy either.
If the trigger is anything like the Stormrider/PR900 (I strongly suspect it is) then it’s a very simple, direct sear trigger.
Remove the stock and the pins will come out very easily to reveal the trigger, sear and spring. That’s all there is!
And notice that the sear is wider than a Crosman sear. Allot. This allow you to adjust less sear travel with more surface area for better holding friction I think. I noticed about 10% improvement in my groups after tuning it up a bit. Very simple. 🙂 R
“In my opinion, the Dragonfly Mark 2 has left all the multi-pumps I ever tested in the dust — except for my Sheridan Supergrade that equals it.”
That’s quite the statement coming from the “God Father of Airguns”.
I will anxiously wait for your fix on the trigger and the 25 yard test before I bite.
I haven’t bought a pumper since my ‘317 Benjamin Franklin’.
Looking forward to the ‘Rest Of The Story’.
B.B.,
As others have commented, the Dragonfly MK 2 trigger appears to be the same as the Stormrider trigger. 4 of the 141 Pyramyd AIR reviews of the Stormrider mention loose trigger pins / screws, so that seems to be an issue with some examples. It will be interesting to read what you find when you take a look.
Michael