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Air Guns What about — springers?: Part 1

What about — springers?: Part 1

This report covers:

  • What is a springer?
  • The importance of seals
  • Seal materials
  • Types of springs
  • Shooting springers
  • Scoping a springer
  • Scope height
  • Scope length
  • Summary

You guys may wonder where I get my ideas for this blog. Well, I have a Helper. Some mornings I wake up with a particular blog in mind and He tells me to think about it. I do and, glory be,  a different but still great blog pops into my head.

This morning I was all set to write a report on the FWB 124 that I’m overhauling. I completed the lubrication and assembly yesterday afternoon, just so I could show it to you today. Then I realized that I had last reported on it just three days ago. That’s too soon for another report. Whatever shall I do?

You may remember that I am learning to play the ukulele. I often go online and watch various teachers explain how to do things that I can’t do yet — and there are a lot of them! Well, I was watching this one woman play a baritone ukulele when it dawned on me that she was the teacher I had followed for several weeks. You see, a baritone uke is set up with strings tuned to different notes than the more common sized ukes that I play, so she has to know where all those notes and cords are that are different than the notes and cords on the ukulele I was learning from her. 

On top of that she also teaches guitar, which also has strings and is completely different than a ukulele. A uke usually has 4 strings while a guitar usually has six. A guitar is different enough that I figured someone could learn one without confusing it with the other. I play a tenor slide trombone and trap drums and don’t get confused between the two. But please don’t ask me to play a valve trombone or a kettle drum!

But this lady was doing the equivalent of that with two different ukuleles! How does she do that?

And then, as I was assembling the FWB 124 yesterday, it dawned on me that I was doing the same thing with airguns. From day to day I hop from a spring gun to a pre-charged pneumatic (PCP) to a multi-pump to a CO2 gun. I think nothing of it, but the technology has got to befuddle many who are new to airguns. 

So this morning I thought I would address those things you have to keep in mind to succeed with each type of powerplant. And then the whole thing expanded in my mind. There aren’t just a few things; there are many — for each airgun powerplant!

So today I will start a SERIES on the things you need to know about airguns. I will start with  spring guns. Hopefully I will get everything or almost everything into this one report. Let’s get started.

What is a springer?

Springer is the slang term for a spring-piston airgun. Forget gas rams, gas struts and gas pistons. If some kind of force thrusts a piston forward to rapidly compress a small amount of air, it’s a springer.

Sometimes there is a false piston that goes in the opposite direction from the real piston. It does that to counter the recoil or movement of the actual piston, and that makes that airgun recoilless. Then there is the powerplant with two pistons that come together like the clapping of hands. These are also recoilless and are also more powerful by design.

The importance of seals

The report on the FWB 124 has highlighted the importance of a piston seal, I hope. When the seal gets bad through damage or dry-rot the airgun stops working. We all know that PCPs and CO2 guns need good seals, but seals are just as important to spring guns. And there is one other seal that we seldom think about that can be just as significant — the breech seal. We saw that recently in the report on the Webley Senior. You may recall that it didn’t have one when I received the gun.

Webley Senior breech
My Webley Senior pistol came to me without a breech seal.

The result of that was the pistol couldn’t shoot a pellet out the barrel — the same issue as the FWB 124, but caused by a different problem. When I replaced the breech seal the gun shot like new.

Webley Senior breech seal
The new Webley breech seal fixed everything.

Seal materials

In the olden days (1950s and earlier) most spring gun seals were made of leather. Not all, just most. Those seals needed oil to function their best. They needed lots of oil, and they used up the oil as they were shot. Many older springers smoke when shot, which are tiny droplets of oil being vaporized by the heat of compression. So you oil airguns with leather piston seals frequently — as often as every couple weeks. And don’t forget to oil their breech seals.

Let’s now talk about BB guns, because before the 1970s they had leather seals and absolutely would not work unless oiled. Oil them and they were suddenly restored to like-new performance. A century-old BB gun can be brought back to life this way, but that holds true for a pellet gun. Just ask reader RidgeRunner.

What about synthetic seals? Well the first I know of for sure is in the Hakim trainer and the Anschütz civilian models that proceeded it. They all turned hard over the years, but they were made of strong material and many are still in use today — 68 years later.

Webley has used metal piston rings as seals for much longer than that. Those types of seals also require a lot of oil to help them seal the compression chamber.

Synthetic seals don’t need nearly as much oil as leather ones to do the same job. Just a drop every 500-1,000 shots seems to be about right, or perhaps once a year, if you don’t shoot that much. And synthetic seals is the point where the velocity divides. Leather seals get lower velocity and synthetics get higher. That’s a rough rule of thumb, but true enough.

Types of springs

The coiled steel mainspring is the one we know best of all, but it was proceeded by a coiled volute mainspring that usually acted in pairs.

volute spring
Before there were coiled steel mainsprings the heavier volute spring was used in the same way.

Volute springs are more rugged than coiled steel springs, but because they are wound in a tapered shape they don’t work as well inside pistons. They are also slower to do their thing because of the extra mass in their bodies.

Gas springs go by many names in the airgun world. None of them are correct. You hear of gas pistons, gas struts and gas rams all the time. What those terms attempt to describe is a gas spring. The spring unit may either be independent of the piston or, more often, built right into it. The same technology is used today to hold car hoods and rear decks open.

Gas springs can be extremely reliable, but when they do fail that can present a big problem getting them fixed. My ASP20 breakbarrel rifle has a gas spring (called a gas piston) and some of the gas has leaked off in the 5 years I have owned it. A certain pellet that once went out at 830 f.p.s. now goes 780 f.p.s. Sig, who made the unit, says online that they support their airguns, but I called them and was told by Sig Customer Service that they do not repair or support the gas piston in the ASP20. It’s nice to say on their website that they support their airguns but they really don’t support them any longer.

I now need to find a place that can repair/restore that unit. That doesn’t happen with a coiled steel mainspring because there are so many sizes available and new ones can be wound to order. One that is a close fit can also be easily adapted.

Now, if the company who made the airgun (or put their name on it) was Crosman, I would trust their gas springs because A — they make many times more airguns than Sig ever did, and B — Crosman can’t afford to have their reputation sullied among airgunners through non-support. Sig got out of the airgun business pretty much altogether and now only sells guns they import from the Orient and place their name on.

I’m often asked if a coiled steel mainspring can be installed in an airgun that originally came with a gas spring. The answer is a qualified yes, but there is a lot more to it than just choosing a mainspring. If the spring unit was integral with the piston a new piston will have to be fabricated and it will have to interface with the existing trigger. It’s a job that requires many manhours of skilled machining and even some engineering work, all of which will cost many times the original purchase price of the airgun in question.

Hunting Guide

Shooting springers

I remember back when I gave the name “artillery hold” to how spring-piston guns should be held and how it revolutionized how shooters thought of them. Well, things have changed since then and not all springers need to be held lightly when shot.

The artillery hold basically says that all spring guns vibrate when fired and by holding them loosely they are allowed to vibrate in the same way every time. That means the pellet exits the muzzle when it’s in the same position in recoil and that means shot after shot will go to the same place, more or less.

For a rifle like the Crosman Fire, for example, you must hold it lightly to get any accuracy at all. For a TX200 Mark III a light hold isn’t as important. You need to be flexible and use the artillery hold if it helps accuracy, but don’t waste your time if it does nothing.

Scoping a springer

You probably think I’m going to talk about breaking scopes and keeping your scope mounts from moving, but just like cell phones have done away with corded phones in most homes, these problems have largely been solved. The problem today is what kind of scope base is on the gun? If it’s an 11 mm dovetail (that really runs from just under 9.5 mm to almost 14 mm) you may find that there aren’t as many mounts for you to select from. Fortunately there is BKL and that’s all they fit, but once again, watch out for the little 11 mm and the big 11 mm. The airgun industry is rapidly switching to the much better Picatinny scope base.

Scope height

You need to consider how high the scope will be, because the higher it is the greater the influence of cant (a scope that is tilted). This is where a scope level comes in handy. 

Scope length

With a breakbarrel make sure the objective end of the scope allows enough clearance for you to break open the barrel. And with both a breakbarrel and also a sliding compression chamber rifle (sidelever and underlever) there isaccess to the loading port to consider. Don’t cover it with the objective bell.

Finally, can you mount the scope far enough back on the rifle that you can see the sight picture? This is a real problem with springers and particularly with shorter scopes like Big Busters that have to be mounted farther forward because their short tubes dictate where the rings must go.

Summary

That is a lot of food for thought on spring-piston airguns. No doubt I missed something. You have all weekend to find it and talk about it.

author avatar
Tom Gaylord (B.B. Pelletier)
Tom Gaylord, also known as B.B. Pelletier, provides expert insights to airgunners all over the world on behalf of Pyramyd AIR. He has earned the title The Godfather of Airguns™ for his contributions to the industry, spending many years with AirForce Airguns and starting magazines dedicated to the sport such as Airgun Illustrated.

65 thoughts on “What about — springers?: Part 1”

  1. B.B.

    Since you were searching for topics for your blog, how about one on tranquilliser airguns? How big a bore is the barrel? Or another idea, I understand that modern day whaling ships use an air powered harpoon. Now I do not condone Whaling. I did/do not condone the French Revolution, but the guillotine is still an interesting item.
    There 2 great ideas for your blog!

    -Y

    • The guillotine was much more “humane” than the ax or sword. It has been recorded that the head chopper dude sometimes messed up and did not behead someone with one stroke.

      As for tranquillizer airguns and harpoons, those come under the subject of PCPs.

    • Yogi, I agree about whaling! For me it’s on the grounds of inflicting a violent and gruesome dying process on the poor animal. Which, of course, is common for almost every sea creature that humans capture.

      That is, when they don’t use just a camera. 🙂

      I’m neither vegan nor vegetarian and so, I wish I could consume corpses of animals killed without their knowledge. You may ask about my ‘hunting’ skills, but they are, well, there aren’t any,

      • hihihi,

        I sort of understand your concern but having witnessed, while kayaking, from a VERY short distance an Orca take a Sea Otter I’m MUCH more impressed by whale brutality.
        Nature is full of life shortened by painful endings with NO human involvement!
        I find we humans are NOT exceptionally gifted in this ability to brutalize others.

        shootski

  2. “..just three days… [is] too soon for another report…”
    Hmm, I much prefer to read about the same subject without interruptions and until it is exhausted, especially airgun reviews. Also, I wonder if a non consecutive style promotes abandonment or forgotten topics.

    However, what I particularly like is the astonishing and amazing…
    …to be continued – maybe. 🙂

  3. Maybe you should dip your toes into the world of cigar box guitars. I’m an old guitar hack, but picked up a 3 string cigar box guitar a few years ago. Some folks make their own, And there are kits available from C. B. Gitty and Amazon. Many players use a slide on these. There are fretted and fretless ones available. Acoustic and electric models with a pickup. The fretless ones usually have lines on the neck where the frets would be and dots on the side of the neck to find your way on the fretboard. Poor blues players who couldn’t afford a 6 string guitars, would make a 3-4 string guitar out of wooden cigar boxes. The 3 stringers are often tuned to “open D” with the thickest top string tuned to a D, middle string tuned to a g and the bottom one to a d, an October vs higher than the thickest string. Check out this video. He makes these things, but his are a might spendy, and probably very well made.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_pGpZOzEtTQ&t=389s

      • That is all I need, another hobby. I would like to learn to play the harmonica and the dulcimer, but with sport kiting, airguns and camera, I do not have much time. Life keeps getting in the way.

        • That’s funny. I just ordered myself a harmonica. Yes, a dulcimer looks interesting. There are the mountain dulcimers and there is the Seagull Merlins, which are played like a guitar. Seagull has made nice acoustic guitars at reasonable prices for many years. Guitars made by Loog are also worth a look. Designed for kids, but adults play them too. They have 3 strings, and basically usr the bottom 3 strings of a regular guitar, and are tuned the same. So, g, b, and e strings from a guitar. Many 3 note chords, or triads, can be played on them. It seems that chords on 6 stringers have many redundant notes, but the Loogs get back to the same chords, with just the 3 basic notes. The Loog guitars can also be tuned to a number of open tunings, the same as the 3 string cigar box guitars use.

        • My cigar box guitar, or cbg, plays pretty good. Mine has a pickup, so I can play it through any of my amps. I have enjoyed playing slide on my 6 string guitars for years, and use them on my cbg too. I played in a few bands way back in the 70’s. Feeling pretty decent. Ended my cancer treatments in October of 2018. PSA stayed undectable, but has started going up the last three tests. It’s not high enough to start more treatments yet. If it keeps rising, I’d guess in a year or two, they’ll want to start treatment again. Started taking lycopene pills, as there is some evidence that it may kill cancer cells. Next test in February. Hoping the pills stop the upward psa trend. I’ll be 69 on 11/01/22. I do a least 5 miles a day on my bicycle.

  4. A sproinger can be quite challenging to shoot accurately, at least for most folks. The recoil can be quite complicated. First you get a backward (normal) recoil as the piston is released and goes forward. Then as the huge mass of the piston reaches the end of travel, the sproinger tries to jump forward. because of the air that has been quickly compressed, the piston will usually bounce backward slightly and then come forward the rest of the way as the pellet starts moving. Yes, all of this can happen before the pellet starts moving.

    Another nasty little motion that can be thrown into this mix is as the spring uncompresses, it also uncoils. It can cause the sproinger to torque or twist to the side along its length. This can be noticed in very light and/or magnum sproingers. It is not as pronounced with sproingers that have pistons and/or springs that can rotate freely.

    All of this happens really, really fast. This is why you use the artillery hold.

    With some of the newer, more powerful gas springs it is pretty straight forward. They have tendency to slam forward and not bounce back very much. With a light sproinger, this will usually cause it to slap you side the head.
    In that case you may need to take a firmer grip. The gas spring does not give you the torque to deal with though.

  5. BB

    Sorry to learn that Sig has stopped servicing the ASP20. They did for a time. Seems to me that some former ASP20 technician has an opportunity to set up a repair business. Maybe Ed Shultz knows someone. Your rifle deserves getting fixed.

    Deck

    • FM still does not understand the logic of designing and making a good product then not supporting it. May as well not do it so as to avoid alienating existing or potential customers. Then again FM is not a bean counter, just a human bean.

    • Decksniper,

      I totally agree that there are potential opportunities since SIG AIR seemingly has washed its hands of their ASP20. I’m not certain that Mr Ron Cohen the SIG USA CEO is aware of what has happened to a “small potatoes” project that means so much to some of us airgunners.. He has been engadged in fighting the good fight against this: ” Anti-arms activists in Germany are expressing mixed reactions to the terms of the deal. Holger Rothbauer, an attorney with the group Action Outcry–Stop the Arms Trade, says he is disappointed Cohen wasn’t given prison time, but believes the substantial fines will serve as “a huge signal to the arms industry in Germany” to comply with the country’s export laws.”. Of course if you note the organizations name, Action Outcry–Stop the Arms Trade, you will hopefully understand the real motivations in this case.
      Back to the ASP20.
      IIRC Tom wrote in reply to a question on the gas spring’s place of manufacture that SIG AIR sourced from a company that specializes in gas operated devices. Therefore there is a source for one of the most likely (difficult to repair) failure subassemblies in the air rifle. If SIG could buy them that means specifications exist or more likely a mostly Off the Shelf item is out there. I doubt the telephone folks in Customer Service are the solution to Tom’s potentially failing Gas Spring. Without a method to measure the precharge pressure it is a probable but not a certainty that it IS failing. Other things could be wrong with his rifle giving similar MV drops.
      My biggest suggestion to you and other ASP20 owners is to be vigilant to the issue but don’t stop shooting your rifles. A Gun Room Queen degrades faster than one on the line regularly. Just like the Hangar Queen aircraft is always a frightful test hop when the powers that be determine she needs to fly! I know all too well as on one of those i started with four “good” engines. I lost one almost immediately after takeoff, declared an Emergency and by the time i was on the approach only two were still running and one of those was about to flame out! Touched down and on rollout with only ONE still running with no generator! Started a battery powered engine shutdown (no Auxiliary Power Unit since this was the Hanger Queen) and the battery failed; killed it manually with the Emergency Shutdown Handle. I used my Survival Radio to call the tower to ask for a tow back to the Hanger. The Queen was back!
      It seems mechanical things like (NEED) to be exercised to stay functional just like us.

      Use it, or LOSE IT!

      shootski

  6. B.B.,
    You’ve covered an awful of info here on springers…well done!
    Out of curiosity, do you have any air rifles with volute springs? Weren’t they mostly used in older guns that shot darts instead of pellets? I think I used to know…but memory fails me. 😉
    Take care & God bless,
    dave

  7. BB
    Do you think there is any possibility that an entirely new airgun design and operating system is possible beyond what we have already?
    Seems like we have taken shooting BB’s and pellets to the limit with no room for innovation left, other than more replicas and slight changes or more options.
    On one hand it’s good we may have reached the pinnacle of airgun performance but on the other, sad there may be no room left for better things to come, beyond the PCP.

  8. Folks,

    Here is some more information on my Low Pressure Pellet Gun (LPPG). I now have three Lothar Walther barrels:

    .177 caliber – 1:17″ twist / barrel blank / .630 OD / 23.8″ Length

    .22 caliber – 1:16″ twist / barrel blank / .630 OD / 23.8″ Length

    .25 caliber – 1:16″ twist / barrel blank / .630 OD / 23.8″ Length

    The barrels take about 1 minute to change; just loosen the bolt and slide out one and slide in one and tighten the bolt. They had the 1:17 twist .177 barrel in stock and the 1:16 would have taken months to arrive.

    I spent some months back working on accuracy and have no progress to report since early in the experiment. My better 10 shot groups were around 1/2 to 3/4 inch at 25 yards, now they seem to be around 3/4 inch. The best so far have been the .22 caliber AA Falcon pellets at .33 inch group at 25 yards. I adjusted the hammer spring as light as I could with my existing trigger configuration. It did not seem to make any difference on velocity or accuracy. I also built a bipod for the gun. Before those two changes I could see a definite movement of the barrel on each shot. Now there is barely any noticeable movement, but no improvement in accuracy. I think that means that even though I have reduced the hammer impact and made the gun much more stable it has not resulted in repeatable harmonics for each shot.

    Recently I have been compiling data on the three barrels with different weight pellets before I get back to working on the accuracy. Below are two graphs the first of Energy vs weight and the second is Velocity vs Weight. This data set is with the valve pressure at 150 psi.

    In collecting this data, I used the FX Radar Pocket Wireless Chronograph so far it has worked flawlessly unless I forget to set the velocity range correctly for the pellet I am testing.
    /product/fx-radar-pocket-wireless-chronograph?a=9078

    I also bought a Meopta scope it is extremely clear and a good buy:
    /product/meopta-optika5-3-15×44-sfp-rifle-scope-z-plus-1-tube?a=9641

    Next, I will try making small tweaks to the location of the bipod and butt support and then changing the barrel support locations and adding barrel weights.

    Here is a picture of the LPPG in its present form.

      • Benji-Don,
        That LPPG is Something Don!
        Love the stock and bipod upgrade!
        Are you certain it isn’t a VeryLPPG or ExtremeLPPG?
        I find your DOPE so instructive since no one else (almost no one?) has/is working in this almost man powered blowgun pressure range!

        Thank you,
        shootski

    • Benji
      Always interested when you post about your low pressure air gun. And the way it looks just makes me want it. Hint, hint. 🙂

      If you ever decide you want to let it go to a different home, I’m interested in it. 🙂

      I wonder what it would take to make a plan (blue print) and sell the prints like they use to do in the back of the old 1960 and 70’s popular mechanics and hunting magazines. That would be a way to share your design and make a few (or even a fair amount) of money off the print. Just throwing it out there and remembering those ads back then.

      • GF1,
        If I get bored with it you will be the first I contact. Part of the issue with plans is that most of the parts came from junk I have laying around. Like an 80 year old 3/4 ” water gate valve. I used its bonnet for the stem seal on the back of the gun valve where the (valve stem/connecting rod) goes to the hammer. With your ability and access to lathes and mills you could make a beauty. The only trick to the valve design is the seal that the brass rod passes through from the exhaust valve seal to the hammer. The key to the valve is opening the valve by pulling on the seal that is right in front of the barrel. That gives the air a straight shot at the pellet. I know you already know this but others may not.

        A few other changes I have made to the gun over the last few months is reducing the weight of the hammer by over half; I think I forgot to weigh the two before I put it back together and don’t want to take it apart again. I also added an stop screw for the trigger. I also forgot to mention that the valve stays open with the .177 barrel until I unlatch the bolt and move the barrel away from the valve. That confirms that the valve is staying open until the pellet leaves the barrel and releases the back pressure.

        I also ran the velocity test for the 31.02 gr Bemman Kodiak .25 caliber pellets selecting a better velocity bracket on the FX Radar. It needs to be told what velocity range to expect and has a list to select from. I also found some .22 JSB Beast 33.956 gr pellets and tested those. Based on this testing I believe a graph could be constructed that would show maximum energy for a certain weight pellet for a given caliber and valve pressure. Take a look at the .22 caliber energy curve below.

        The velocity curve also confirms what we expected that for the same weight pellet a larger bore gives a higher velocity as long as the available air volume is more than needed.
        Don

      • P.S. I too really miss those old Pop Mech and Hunting magazines. the new ones just don’t get it. I finally dropped my subscription to Pop Mechanics and Pop Science.

        • Benji
          I just have a feeling your not going to be bored with your air gun anytime soon.

          I do have a question and you may have covered this already I don’t remember.

          How loud is the gun? And does the sound change with the different calibers and weight pellets.?

          Yep it’s been forever since I had magazine subscriptions. I bet at a time I probably had 5 or 6 different magazine subscriptions at one time when I was a teenager.
          Cars, motorcycles and hunting and the popular mechanics magazines.

          • GF1,
            It is not as quiet as would be expected for low pressure. I would say between 2 and 3 on the PA loudness scale. It tries to maintain full pressure until after the pellet leaves the barrel. Most guns try to balance the shot count vs velocity and some can be very quiet. As far as caliber goes it seems to get louder with larger bore size. My hearing is very bad though so I am a poor judge.

        • Benji
          Thanks for the info on the noise level.
          And 2-3 is pretty much around a shrouded pcp sound level.

          Next question. Again I think you might of already covered this. How much volume of air does each shot use?

          • GF1,
            As you know I have maximized for velocity for a given pressure. I know my valve plenum is oversized and the valve stays open after the pellet leaves the barrel. So it uses a very large volume of air, probably orders of magnitude more than a high pressure gun. For a given volume 3,000 psi air has way more energy than the same volume of 150 psi air. I have the LPPG tethered to a small pancake garage compressor. It kicks on every 10 shots or so. I have some leaks in my hose connections between the gun and the compressor, they may loose more air than the gun uses.

            The LPPG will always need a tethered air source. That is not a problem while sitting on the back porch. Don’t expect to carry it around.

        • Benji
          So a person could probably tether the gun to one of those low pressure air tanks I use to take to the drag strip to adjust my air pressure inbetween rounds.

          A way of taking the gun out from home possibly.

  9. I know this is waaaaay off subject, but I also know there are quite a few out there that have Gauntlets and may not have seen this. Hajimoto has devised a side lever for the Gauntlet.

  10. Springers will be always the most fun to shoot. You can say whatever you want, nothing will overcome the springer airgun regarding this particular attribute – fun to shoot 🙂 I remember how I took some time to tune a cheap cal .22 brake barrel (copy Diana27-like) to achieve the best energy-recoil-fun factor combination. It took me 7 times dismantle the system, cut the spring, change the piston seal again, put some mass… at the end it is just so “perfectly unperfect”. It is accurate and powerful enough, though it kicks a bit and you have to use some technique to stay in black. But it is not too much, you have the control. Only a springer will do a hell nice day of plinking with friends with such a performance. For this whole perfectly unperfect performance, this fun to shootness 🙂 I like to use the description: nonchalant .

    Good springers are nonchalant. 🙂 🙂 🙂

  11. thedavemyster
    Ran out of space above to reply. Said you have some “Awesome” knives. Thought you and others might enjoy seeing these Dragon Fantasy Knives. Part of my Bowie Knife collection. Not likely to see them anywhere else. Zoom in.
    Not too practical. Just collectable knife art displays on wood bases. Like the Harley !

    • I used to have a collection of Hibben knives. They also were not very practical, but they looked cool. I undoaded them many years ago as I would just pull them out on occasion and drool a bit, wipe them off and put them back in the boxes in the bin. I have tried really hard not to just “collect” such things since. The airguns I “collect” now, I shoot. If I do not, they find a new home. I let someone else enjoy them.

      Just do you know; I think they are nice knives.

      • RR
        I certainly understand. Stopped collecting knives over 25 years ago. These two are out for decoration /display.
        Originally intended to create a knife display circle on my den wall along with some airguns like the Daisy Wire Stock. Have a few wooden Daisy display boxes.
        But, one of my daughters returned home for a year or so and then my ex became disabled and the ‘Den’ never happened.
        Everything will eventually be moving on and hopefully down to a precious few by age 80.
        If I had any grandchildren half would be gone already.

  12. BB, and Gas Spring powerplant owners,

    I have been digging trying to find a path to the OEM of the SIG ASP20 Gas Piston.
    : https://www.kaller.com/en-us/products/tool-and-die/gas-springs/
    Some of the companies I have found (NOT the OEM) have some interesting stuff.
    Way beyond the level that seems to be finding its way into current gas spring airguns.
    This particular company talks about controlling power levels remotely! The engineering drawings seem to bear out that claim.

    shootski

    • Shootski
      Adjustable dampening has been available for cars for some time.

      I can see it on air guns and being adjustable by remote control with a electrically controled valve on a nitro piston.

      • Gunfun1,
        Yes! We bought a 1975 Citroën DS23 Pallas while we were on our first tour in Spain. It had a lot of gas springs and Hydropneumatic Suspension. Loved that car almost as much as my SAAB AEROs and VIGGENs!
        If SIG had kept going with airguns we could have seen some of that. A shame that Weihrauch embraced gas springs on ONLY ONE model and never did more than TheoBen had given them! Case of NIH….

        Well IF my ASP20s go out and I can’t get a quality replacement maybe I will turn the stock into a PCP barer. But I’m guessing B.B. didn’t shoot his often enough to keep his gas spring seals happy or it was just the luck of an early failure on the “Bathtub Curve” of airgun life.
        As I said before with no easy way to tell pressure on the ASP20 Gas Spring I am only speculating.
        I may hand write a letter on parchment to Ron Cohen if I have an issue with my two.
        That’s what Tom should do since he has met the man hisself!

        shootski

  13. B.B. and Crew,
    Wow, lots of new discussion since yesterday. Nice!
    But first I have a question. It seems to be a simple problem with the installation of a new main spring of my prized Crosman Quest. I broke the second spring and bought another replacement from a reputable spring guy. This new spring bulged out in the space between the tophat and the spring guide the first time it was cocked. The new spring actually has two fewer coils and the wire diameter is the same as the previous one. The spring is not coilbound when the rifle is cocked. I removed the new spring and it is noticeably bent as it rests on the bench.
    I was wondering if I scragged that spring by compressing it between nuts with washers on a threaded rod until coilbound and left it for the proper amount of time, would it get all better? At least be usable and not awful? I didn’t have to scrag the previous two new springs I’ve installed in this and another rifle, I think this is odd spring behavior. Manufacturers don’t scrag their springs before installing them. Did the spring have a weak place? Why don’t the spring guide and the tophat shaft almost meet when the gun is cocked? Wouldn’t that guide the spring better, or is there too much friction with long spring guides? I don’t really know what to think about this and future mainspring installations. Thanks for any guidance you might offer 🙂
    Will

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