This report covers:
- The test
- BB’s Goldie
- Drum roll!
- S510XS
- Good result
- Where made?
- What kind of lead?
- Uniformity
- Summary
Today I begin both accuracy and uniformity testing of the JTS pellets that we discussed yesterday. There is one more factor to consider than I brought up yesterday and I’ll cover it next
The test
I shot from a sandbag rest at 25 yards. I shot BB’s Goldie and my Air Arms S510XS. For each rifle I went back and found the most accurate pellet and shot it as a baseline group.
I shot 10-shot groups. Had I stopped at 5 shots there would have been one group that measured 0.0-inches between centers — or at least it sure looked that way through the scope.
All pellets were shot straight out of the tin; there was no sorting. I shot BB’s Goldie with a single-shot tray because that is how it does its best. The S510 does best with the 10-shot rotary magazine, so that’s how I shot it.
The additional factor in today’s test is me. Some days I’m hot, others I’m not. Today was a lukewarm day. Since I’m touching the rifles I’m a variable, too.
I filled both rifles full after verifying their respective fill pressures. Everything was as close to the same as I could make it. I have made a number of mistakes in the recent past from being confused about the technical specs of the airguns I test. I wanted today to go without a hitch.
BB’s Goldie
The first rifle to be shoot was BB’s Goldie. It shoots both Air Arms 16-grain domes and JSB Exact Monster Redesigned pellets very well so I chose the Monster Redesigned. These are the older Redesigned pellets with the thinner skirts and this rifle loves them. I will say, though, that they load harder than many others. That’s a head size thing, I think.
Ten pellets went into a group that measures 0.262-inches between centers of the two pellets farthest apart. I saw that the group was high but since I was going to shoot different pellets I decided not to touch the scope adjustments.
BB’s Goldie put 10 JSB Monster Redesigned pellets into a 0.262-inch group at 25 yards.
That’s a good start. Now we know at what level I am shooting today. I’ve done better; I’ve done worse.
Drum roll!
Here it comes. This is the first test of the JTS .22-caliber domed pellet. And, by the way, this pellet does not disassemble, which is what Take Down (written on the tin) means. I assume the maker meant that it is good on game. That would be Takedown — one word instead of two.
Ten JTS Dead Center domed pellets went into a group measuring 0.172-inches between centers. That’s right — JTS outshot JSB. And BB can still shoot! This is the smallest group of today’s test and it is also the group wherein the first 6 shots were in 0.0-inches between centers. These pellets also loaded harder in BB’s Goldie. Again, I think it’s the head size.
BB’s Goldie put ten JTS Dead Center domed pellets into a 0.172-inch group at 25 yards.
S510XS
Now I shifted over to the Air Arms S510XS rifle. This one likes them loaded through the magazine so that’s how I did it. It also likes Air Arms 16-grain domes and JSB Monster Redesigned pellets. Go figure. I feel the Air Arms 16-grainers have a slight edge in this rifle, so that’s what I shot.
Ten Air Arms 16-grain domes went into a group that measures 0.394-inches between centers. This is one of the larger groups I have shot with this rifle and pellet, but hey — this is a test. And please note that the center dot of the bull was blown away, so I had to guess where to aim for the last 6 shots. I’ve done pretty good doing that in the recent past, but I’m just sayin’ that’s what happened.
The Air Arms S510XS put ten Air Arms 16-grain domes into a 0.394-inch group at 25 yards.
Now it’s time for the JTS pellets. The S510XS put ten of them into a 0.245-inch group at 25 yards. This time I didn’t quite blow away all of the center dot, so there was something left at which to aim.
The Air Arms S510XS put ten JTS domed pellets into a 0.245-inch group at 25 yards.
Good result
Today’s results are good, no doubt about it. But more testing is needed. Two 10-shot groups are hardly conclusive.
Where made?
These pellets are made in China. Are they a rebranded pellet made by someone else? No. I have been told they are brand new and that a whole line of them is coming.
Will the quality remain high? How do I know? I don’t have a crystal ball to see into the future. But I will say that this is a great start.
What kind of lead?
I was asked how hard the lead is. I have no way of knowing that precisely, but using the muzzleloader’s trick of a thumbnail I will say it is very soft. Is it as soft as JSB? No way for me to tell.
Uniformity
Here we go. I weighed 10 random pellets and this is what I got.
Pellet……weight in grains
1…………..………18.2
2…………………..18.1
3…………………..18.1
4…………………..18.0
5…………………..18.1
6…………………..18.1
7…………………..18.1
8…………………..17.9
9…………………..18.1
10…………………18.1
Then I checked 10 head sizes, again with random pellets and not the same ones as were used for the weight. I used the Pelletgage for this.
Pellet……head size in mm
1…………………..5.52
2…………………..5.53
3…………………..5.53
4…………………..5.52
5…………………..5.53
6…………………..5.53
7…………………..5.52
8…………………..5.53
9…………………..5.52
10…………………5.53
For those who aren’t sure, both of these results are very uniform. This is a JSB level of uniformity.
Summary
I can’t say for certain yet how good these JTS pellets are, but today’s results leave me very encouraged. Remember what I said yesterday about what if these were JSB-level pellets? Well, so far, they are.
Tom,
That is all the original testing you can/should do. I would rather you simply include them in your rotation for the .22 airguns you will be testing and cite them as you shoot them along with the other pellets.
Siraniko
Absolutely right Siraniko.
Siraniko, I concur your idea is the way to go (and better than my idea). 🙂
B.B., I found this impressive: “JTS outshot JSB. And BB can still shoot!” 😉
Once again, somewhat impressive results, Mr Tom Gaylord (B.B. Pelletier) – wow! 🙂
I wondered exactly how much effort was required to “…load harder than many others…”, and then I wondered, if and how one even could convey that?
I predict bulk purchases of these ‘JTS Dead Centre’ pellets, if they become available for less than ‘JSB’s. Well, that’s what I would do, if I had a precharged pneumatic airgun in .22″ calibre. 🙂
By the way, I would still be interested to know, with how much energy these pellets struck those targets, ie how do their aerodynamics compare in the real world?
Can a ‘Labradar’ help here, or would one need to place a chronograph right in front of the target, behind some protective medium of course, eg a lump of wood maybe? Oh, and I know that I would also have to remove the sky-screens off of mine! 🙂
3hi,
The Labradar would be ideal for this. It can tell you the velocity and power at various ranges. It is a pretty neat toy, but unless someone donates one to RidgeRunner’s Home For Wayward Airguns, I will likely stick with my Caldwell.
Yes, I know there will be proponents of the Labradar and will sing it praises, but for the average joe, it is too expensive and too complicated. It can be fun to play with, but unless you are doing actual research with it, it is more than you need. Even BB says it can be quite distracting and he does this for a living. For what one of these costs, I can buy a pretty decent airgun or a whole bunch of accessories.
B.B. If I remember correctly the other Chinese pellet, Qiang Yuan, started out being very uniform and accurate. However, when you would subsequently test them they are not winners. I hope history does not repeat? Is it the same company that makes them? Who gave them to you and who will import them? They do look promising though…
-Y
PS I am also afraid that in 5-10 years, if not sooner, I will need to replace my “I stand with Ukraine” shirts with” I stand with Taiwan” shirts.
Yogi, all my shirts are plain, especially my t-shirts. 🙂
However, if I were offered a life changing bribe, maybe I would agree to wear advertising…
…only joking! 🙂
Yogi,
I have been standing with Taiwan since the 1960s.
Qiang Yuan pellets are still very accurate. Where did you hear they were not? I used to compete at the national level with Chinese target pellets that I bought ten tins at a time — which was as much as I could afford. In my cheap Czechoslovakian target pistol (again — all I could afford) they out-shot H&N R10s and Finale Match pistol pellets.
Who makes the JTS pellets? I don’t know. All I do know is they shoot well enough to beat JSB — at least two times in my brief test. Readers say I should stop testing them now, but that ain’t-a-gonna happen. I have things I want to learn and, as l0ng as I have them I will test them.
Who gave them to me? Travis Whitney of JTS.
BB
Tom,
You have “been standing with Taiwan since the 1960s”? Your legs must be exhausted! (Sorry. I’m unable to pass up a chance to provide a cheesy joke.)
In school in the early 1980s I very briefly dated a gal from Tai Pei. Her friend was from Beijing. They could hardly have been more different in every respect. They both moderately disliked the United States, but for different reasons.
The gal from Beijing thought Americans were soft, lazy, lacking in manners, and unsophisticated oafs. The gal I dated, thought most Americans were unjustifiably conceited and poorly educated. She also disliked living in the U.S. because, she said, the standard of living was lower than in Tai Pei. For example, I remember she complained that American roads were terrible and our household appliances, like refrigerators and stoves, were primitive.
If you wonder why I went out with her, if you could see a picture of her, you would have your answer. She asked me if I would move to Tai Pei with her after graduation. It was tempting, but the thought of mastering the language was daunting. When I asked her if she would consider living permanently in the U.S., she laughed.
Michael
“If you wonder why I went out with her, if you could see a picture of her, you would have your answer.”
Michael, I’m still on my first cup of caffeine this morning, but this brought a smile to my face; thanks.. 🙂
Michael,
I liked that “lower standard of living” remark. When I arrived in Germany in 1974 I thought all the men would be dressed in lederhosen and all the women would be in dirndls. What I saw, instead, were finer clothes, cars and a more beautiful countryside than I had ever seen. Then I listened to Germans speaking better English than I did. This soft, lazy unmannered oaf had his unsophisticated eyes opened!
BB
Tom,
From all of the Germans I’ve known, I came up with this:
“How can you tell if someone is German?”
“He or she can speak six languages fluently.”
Michael
Hummmmm…..this just might be the incentive(s)I need to buy a JTS Max along with the JTS pellets.
I might wait until it warms up a bit because the ‘dog house’ isn’t heated.
Speaking of that, appears the Panzers are coming to Ukraine – again; this time for a good cause.
China? We may have at some point to have a series of stiff drinks and Taiwan on. Keep on praying for world peace and sanity.
As for shirts/t-shirts, FM is considering getting this one.
Basil,
I LIKE that! 🙂
BB
FM, Agreed regarding the Leopards and hoping for peace. But we’re sending only 30 Abrams? Seriously? We’ve done a LOT already, but c’mon. I’ve read tank battles really require a minimum of 300 main tanks to be successful.
Here’s a trucker hat my dad used to wear: “Since I retired, I don’t do _ _ _ _ [rhymes with spit] and I don’t start ’till noon.”
Michael
Michael,
The thing that worries me most about sending the tanks is that it takes solid coordination with infantry to keep them reasonably safe. The Ukrainian infantry may not be trained to do this well.
I defer to Tom if what I wrote is full of malarkey.
shootski
The Pentagon expects it be a year before everything in place. Given that, it might end up being a moot point.
Could have to do with the training required to keep the Abrams’ running and battle-ready. Here is a good read on armor-maintenance nightmares.
https://tankmuseum.org/article/tiger-day-preparation
Given the complexity of our weapons system of today, I’d say that applies to almost everything we field.
Michael
In my case I know that I have slowed down quite a lot since retiring. Yesterday I did absolutely nothing,, and I’m only half done.
Ed
;^D
That’s all we can afford to send because ‘we’ have to save them for the Pacific Theater.
We can’t replicate what the Greatest Generation did. Fight a Two-Front war.
I’m no retired trucker but that is my schedule.
I kind of understand the Germans reluctance to send tanks to Ukraine until the US did. They got so much s..t the last time they did that that it’s more than a little comforting that the US is doing the same. War is so pointless. After a few years you become friends again.
FW,
I like that tee alot. My favorite, lately, has been, “Duct tape can’t fix stupid, but it can sure cut down on the noise it makes”
Half
Do I have permission to use that anytime anywhere?
Got to love it!
FM,
Chauge “FW” to “FM”. I abologize, bnt I have been recently diagnosed with “Inversion Dyslexia” and can’t help it. I’w still maiting to see what color rippon is eveutnally choseu for the canse.
Half
No apogees mercenary; FW could stand for Fawlty Wacko. Me Mrs. would second that in a minute.
Considering that the 2 most recent mass shooters were older, THAT IS NOT FUNNY!
-Y
Not all humor is humorous to all, Yogi.
Dark humor can be really funny. Clint Eastwood’s line in Forgiven before he shot that youngster “Dying is a hell of a way to make a living” had me in fits off laughter macabre as it may sound
Yogi,
To each his own, but I think the shirt is hilarious. On the other hand, “Don’t piss off emotionally unstable old people” would not be even a little funny. That’s the “humor” you get from late night talk show hosts. See the difference?
Half
FM
Same about the t-shirt.
BB,
So far, good and good – accuracy and consistency. 🙂
If the quality level of quality is maintained, the JTS path to popularity will be determined by availability, price and selection. Hope they do well. Alternative choices are always welcome and it’s good to have some competition to keep pricing in control.
I do wonder about the situation in China, seems that things are not very stable over there.
Hank
“I do wonder about the situation in China, seems that things are not very stable over there.”
Over there?
Michael
Michael,
Got to ask you if you have looked at the demographics of Communist China recently. The projections, even the conservative ones, are almost unbelievably grim. I certainly would not want to be an unmarried male!
The situation is unfortunately (for Communist China) unfolding quicker than most Think Tanks around the World were projecting as recently (the preliminary 2020 census numbers had not been released) as 2019. The hoped for bump in births did NOT materialize with the ending of the one child policy, nor the two child policy, nor the current three child encouraged policy. It is actually simple economics that is at the heart of a highly probable population collapse; far too expensive to raise a child anywhere in Communist China!
The Communist Party also urged urbanization and with that came the collapse of the traditional Chinese family.
Sadly this has serious implications for maintaining peace in the region, if not in the wider World as well.
I pray for our sailors and soldiers every night that the Communist Chinese just collapse internally without an attempt on Taiwan and perhaps other nearby neighbors as well.
shootski
shootski,
I agree that China has some scary challenges ahead.
My point was not clearly made, I confess, I wasn’t referring to China. I don’t wish to open up a political debate, so I was intentionally oblique.
Ever see “The Year of Living Dangerously” [1982]? =8^0 A great film, but as real life, I’d rather not look out the window and see Jakarta circa 1965.
Michael
Michael,
I saw it in Australia. Did it actually make it to the USA? I was out of CONUS for most of that period.
I studied the Muslim, Communist, and Sukarno case extensively in my International Relations classes.
The people (at least most of them) did “better” under a dictatorship given the abusive history since.
shootski
shootski, sorry for putting it here, but the thread ran out below.
“The Year of Living Dangerously” ran for quite a while in the U.S. Linda Hunt in particular made an impression as Billy Kwan. She won the following (according to imdb):
Academy Award, Best Actress in a Supporting Role
Boston Society of Film Critics Awards, Best Supporting Actress
Kansas City Film Critics Circle Awards, Best Actress in a Supporting Role
Los Angeles Film Critics Association Awards, Best Supporting Actress
National Board of Review, USA, Best Supporting Actress
New York Film Critics Circle Awards, Best Supporting Actress
Impressive indeed!
Michael
‘Direct Confrontation’ with Super Powers vs Super Power is too expensive because of how quickly things can get out of hand.
That’s just IMHO.
Vana2, all I know is, if the airgun manufacturers want our money, then they had better tempt us with value for money products, and if they also want a good reputation, then consistent quality is in order. 🙂
If any of this becomes messy with at least partial secrecy and dishonesty, like false advertising, then it’s likely to raise passionate reactions, ie it becomes political.
I like to think, we can choose to walk away from politics… 🙂
hihihi,
Unfortunately politics = power.
Humans (especially politicians and elites) do not walk away from power… absolute power corrupts absolutely and leads most often to the end game of a broken peace.
See my reply to Michael about Communist China.
shootski
“Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men.” — Lord Acton
I am answering my own comment, so as not to step on anyone’s toes, you see, I have rather different political views! I think this is not the place to elaborate (I agree with Caitlin Johnstone). 🙂
BB
Very impressive shooting and you were not having a hot day. I am in awe.
My first reaction was to echo what folks I respect said about stopping the test. Having the benefit of reflecting more on your .172 ten shot group at 25 yards, I think more testing is called for. There have been times when I am unable to confirm or repeat group sizes for unknown reasons.
Deck
Deck,
I reread the comments from yesterday and my take is that it wasn’t so much to stop any testing of the “new” Take Down Pellets but to incorporate them into Tom’s other typical tests of airguns and also with the various powerplant types.
The recommendations of the active Readership still seems sound to me.
This is however, B.B.’s Blog and he can darn well do as he sees fit!
shootski
Tom,
Do you remember the size of the original Elet Wasps in .22? Sorting these to shoot the bigger ones might make them a good choice for vintage Webleys.
Michael
That should be Eley Wasps
They were roughly 5.6 mm. The new ones are smaller.
RidgeRunner,
Thanks. I was hoping they were 5.4, as some of the jts pellets reached 5.3. They still might be worth a try if the price is reasonable.
Michael
BB, very impressive results. Will look forward to future results but right now, I’d invest in a tin or two for my own testing. That is, when I need to buy more (lot of lead in three different tool boxes so I am set for Armageddon should it ever happen – .177, .20 and of course, .22)
Michael, one time in my life, I also dated someone on looks alone. Didn’t last long with her neurosis’ and drinking but, boy howdy, could she turn heads when we walked into a restaurant. Ah, the good old days.
Fred formerly of the Demokratik Peeples Republik of NJ now happily in GA
BB-
Regarding takedown versus take down- Merriam-Webster weighs in with-
Takedown (noun)- the action or act of taking down; something having takedown construction
Takedown (adjective)- constructed so as to be readily taken apart
Take down (verb- usually transitive)- several, but to pull to pieces or disassemble seem particularly relevant in this case.
But then I spied verb entry #3- ‘to lower the spirit or vanity of’.
Eureka! The true nature of the contents of pellet tins everywhere and across the ages. From the far corners of the globe, utilizing every avenue of commerce and otherwise, I have endeavored to assemble a supply, a stock, a horde of pellets in search of MY PRECIOUS!!
Okay, okay- I’ve calmed down. And yes, I do cook my fish. But how revelatory, this simple admission of truth by the unknown Chinese manufacturer. No matter how precise or accurate, the truth is disappointment awaits me. It is in the nature of the shooting sports and I must accept. Pellets are the Ying to my Yang. Together we are one. My years of experience have taught me….. a whole passel of really great excuses when I don’t shoot great! Send two dollars and a Self addressed stamped envelop to……
What FM needs to improve his targeting skills are Guided Pellets. However, he will embrace reality and at some point get a tin or two of these takedown Take Downs.
FawltyManual,
I’m working on a target/trap system that homes in on incoming pellets.
The advantages to scores are obvious and lowering of airgunner’s frustration levels; but the real benefit is no more unexpected holes in furniture, walls, and cats/pets.
shootski
BB,
Your Goldie is an excellent air rifle. She is truly golden! But with all due respect, I think you might have been a little unfair to the AT44 Long. You started the AT44 Long 22 cal test at 50 yrds, and that was the furthest you tested the Avenger. Please correct me if I am wrong with this observation. I also wonder if 25 caliber could have been a better choice for the test, considering AT44 Long’s power.
I am excited to learn that you will be testing the Zada. I believe it has the same insides as Edge, AirTact, and Striker 1000S, therefore the trigger, I think, is not Quattro trigger – again, ‘I think.’ You haven’t tested that platform yet. I’ve always wondered what your opinion would be on the ‘other trigger’ on breakbarrel Hatsans.
Fish
Hi BB
Long time reader, just don’t comment much, I am very interested in these new JTS pellets,
I have an XL data base of over 500+ pellets, and I am attempt to add new pellets when they show up etc.
If possible can you provide the following information about these JTS pellets, see example here:
JTS Dead Center pellets
Weight grs= 18.1
Head Diameter= .217″
Skirt Diameter Out Side =
Skirt Depth=
Skirt Length=
Bearing Length=
Overall Length=
Skirt angle=
Head Type=
Here is the following info on the above spec’s:
Skirt Depth = Is from the bottom of the skirt to the top of the inside waist
that the bolt probe pushes against.
Bearing length = Is from the head diameter band to end of skirt length.
Skirt Diameter is the O/S diameter
Skirt angle = the degree of the inside skirt cone = 3 parts/information
Diameter of the small cone dimension?
Diameter of the large cone dimension?
Length from pellet waist to end of the skirt?
I’ll figure this information out as to the skirt angle etc, I just need the 3 area information filled in.
As for the pellet lead hardness, I can test with the lead drawing pencil test, See info here:
https://forum.castbulletassoc.org/thread/dhccking-lead-hardness-with-drawing-pencils/
You can also drop me a Email if you don’t want to answer here.
Sincerely,
Thanks,
Don
Dod,
Wow! You don’t want much, do you?
I can give you the first three. Probes come in different diameters so there can be no one answer to the skirt depth as you asked the question.
For the rest I say get a tin and measure them for yourself.
The head size I already gave you. I do it in millimeters because that’s how the world does it.
The skirt is 0.222 inches.
You got the weight, as well — 18.1 grains.
The head type? Come on — a dome is a dome is a dome.
Overall length — 0.314-inches
BB
BB
Thank you for the information,
I plan on getting a can of each caliber, WHEN available, and I’ll reference all the information when available,
Travis didn’t have any on hand when I contacted him a couple weeks ago.
As for the skirt depth, I just use a dial caliper (thin tip) and measure from the inside waist to end of the skirt.
I listed all the spec’s in my XL program, so you could get an Idea of what I am compiling etc.
If you would like a complete copy via email, for all 4 calibers, drop me a line and I’ll send it to you.
I have built several pellet sizing press’s and use this information when sizing the head/skirts of all pellets, for the best accuracy. And I also size down 22 cal to 20 cal now, and have tested 20 cal down to 177 cal.
Thank you for your time and trouble.
Sincerely,
Don
Like the air rifles, these pellets are Chinese. Any money that helps the Peoples Republic of China is ill spent.
That is an issue for FM as well, applicable to anything Russian-made also, these days. Not judging anyone though; who you do commerce with is a personal choice. Sometimes there is no choice but to deal with questionable types or do without.
FM.
There are USAers I do not deal with. It is true that sometimes there is no choice.
RidgeRunner, I feel the need to state that I disagree.
If I wanted to make a political statement with my shopping, which I do not (!), then I would not just avoid ‘Made in the U.S.A.’ but ‘Made in the U.N.’, which would be silly. 🙂
I really am happy with people all over the world, making things to sell, especially if I can buy their products from where I am. 🙂
Ah, but Uncle Xi and his government has sworn to dominate the USA. They have been our enemies for a long time and still are. Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
As for the UN. Really? What a joke.
Are you happy with Made In Turkey? If so, great!
B.B.,
At the first look the JTS seem on a par with the JSB’s clearly a quality pellet and hoping Pyramyd AIR will pick them up. Pyramyd AIR has also picked up some other pellets I had not seen before /ammo/pellets?brands=604%2C615&pg=all Rifle and Olypmia, perhaps you should give these a shot as well.
Also it seems that Pyramyd AIR has picked up the NSA slugs in mass, kinda cool if you ask me.
Mike
BB
The pellet results got my attention.
Maybe I missed it. How much are they going to cost per tin and how many are in a tin? Ok I see 250 in a tin for .22 caliber and 150 per tin in .25 caliber. But what about cost?
And are you going to test the .25 caliber pellets next?
GF1,
I don’t know the price. The count is 250 for .22 and 150 for .25. It’s written on the tin, so look at the picture from the day before.
BB
BB
Yep seen that on the tins.
And I figured there wouldn’t be a price yet.
If they are cheaper that will be a bonus.